[HN Gopher] The Mystery of the Dune Font
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Mystery of the Dune Font
        
       Author : edent
       Score  : 279 points
       Date   : 2023-01-27 09:01 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fontsinuse.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fontsinuse.com)
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | > Strangely enough, the name of this typeface is barely known
       | even among die-hard fans.
       | 
       | This doesn't seem strange to me at all. I'm a fan of many books
       | and I don't know the name of any of the typefaces. I think it's
       | funny that this author links fandom for fonts to fandom for Dune
       | and thinks people interested in Dune are also interested in
       | typefaces.
       | 
       | I like this article and was curious about the distinctive "dune
       | font." But not enough to Google it in the past 40 years.
        
         | narag wrote:
         | Maybe he meant _typography_ die-hard fans.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | Perhaps. The context made me think it was Dune fans.
           | 
           | I would think most typography fans wouldn't even be aware of
           | Dune.
        
             | narag wrote:
             | To be honest, the same sentence caught my eye. I can
             | imagine there are some fans of both Dune and Typography.
             | But it's more probable that it's due to some effect I've
             | been observing for a while. Not sure if it has a name, all
             | these pieces of Internet wisdom have a name, like "Gell-Man
             | Amnesia", "Godwin's Law"... maybe I could call it narag's
             | effect?
             | 
             | I mean that any YouTube channel or Instagram account, that
             | has some niche topic as focus, tend to greatly exagerate
             | what is considered a normal engagement with such topic.
             | 
             | As an example, most persons own one watch and one perfume,
             | if any. If you want to buy a new wristwatch or perfume and
             | do your little research, you'll find reviewers that own
             | hundreds of perfumes or dozens of watches, some of them
             | ridiculously expensive. Why? You can create a channel that
             | helps the viewers to choose their one and only cheap
             | purchase, but good luck monetizing that. You need recurring
             | visitors, to improve your watching times. Brand deals also
             | require you are able to send whales to the vendors.
             | 
             | The noble art of Typography and a blog seem a little too
             | sober of a setup to fit that description, but who knows,
             | I'm sure there are pros very passionate about typesetting.
             | 
             | https://www.quotes.net/mquote/907087
        
       | ZeroGravitas wrote:
       | That Dune Calendar from 1978 would work for this year too. Wonder
       | if there's high quality scans available?
       | 
       | Edit: Reasonable scan here:
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/bh17j5/the_dune_calen...
        
         | mustacheemperor wrote:
         | Wow, the artwork is just beautiful. I wish this could get a re-
         | release now that the new movies are introducing Dune to a new
         | audience.
        
       | ChickenNugger wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | pklausler wrote:
       | I always enjoy seeing the "Dune" font in unexpected places, such
       | as the logo of the Washington Square Mall in the western burbs of
       | Portland (OR), and wonder whether there's a Herbert fan somewhere
       | with a sense of accomplishment for having used it.
        
       | enriquto wrote:
       | None of these covers shows "the" Dune font, for me. The first
       | edition of Dune had a very stylized calligraphy that looked like
       | arabic. I remember it vividly since my dad had this book in the
       | living room, among others; and when I was learning to read, this
       | was the only cover that I couldn't read at all. (It was a
       | translation, but with the same cover.)
       | 
       | These letters are shown on the wikipedia page about the novel:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_%28novel%29
       | 
       | EDIT: The covers of some modern french translations are also
       | incredible. Just the four letters D U N E, which are exactly the
       | same shape but rotated 90 degrees. It's an incredibly simple and
       | effective design.
        
         | ernesth wrote:
         | > EDIT: The covers of some modern french translations are also
         | incredible. Just the four letters D U N E, which are exactly
         | the same shape but rotated 90 degrees. It's an incredibly
         | simple and effective design.
         | 
         | Indeed, the _Robert Laffont_ 2020 edition looks great:
         | https://www.noosfere.org/livres/EditionsLivre.asp?numitem=13...
        
           | smithza wrote:
           | I was wondering where I got that copy. My old one had its
           | binding failed and I purchased this Robert Laffont special
           | edition (an email promo maybe?). Thanks for pointing it out
           | for me.
        
           | wazoox wrote:
           | Yes the metal cover with forms changing with the light are
           | great, look almost like holograms, extremely SciFi! The
           | static pictures can't make them justice.
        
         | n1b0m wrote:
         | That makes sense given Herbert borrowed heavily from Middle
         | Eastern, Islamic mythology
        
         | Semaphor wrote:
         | > Just the four letters D U N E, which are exactly the same
         | shape but rotated 90 degrees. It's an incredibly simple and
         | effective design.
         | 
         | For those interested: https://m.media-
         | amazon.com/images/P/B08HPFCMLS.01._SCLZZZZZZ...
        
           | MalcolmDwyer wrote:
           | Some Unicode variants:
           | 
           | to te ti ta
           | 
           | to te ti ttha
           | 
           | [?] [?] [?] [?]
           | 
           | Edit to add one more...
           | 
           | [?] [?] [?] [?]
        
             | edaemon wrote:
             | I imagine most people are aware but the second variant you
             | have there is essentially what was used for the most recent
             | movie:
             | http://www.impawards.com/2021/posters/dune_ver16_xlg.jpg
        
               | djur wrote:
               | There were a lot of "DUNC" jokes about the poster, like
               | that the main character was named "Dunc". (Real Dune
               | heads may have some "well, actually" thoughts about
               | that.)
        
               | yellowapple wrote:
               | I reckon Dune fans find all sorts of deeper meaning in
               | the hit B-52s song "Private Idaho".
        
           | radiowave wrote:
           | Ah, as if raked into the sand. Brilliant.
        
           | Zecc wrote:
           | See also: Sun Microsystems' logo
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sun-Logo.svg
        
             | danparsonson wrote:
             | Gosh I've seen that so many times before and yet never
             | really _looked_ at it until now.
        
             | Cockbrand wrote:
             | When I went to my first computer fair as a teenager, I saw
             | the Sun Microsystems booth and was blown away by the
             | fantastic logo. As I had never seen a Unix machine before,
             | I didn't know what to do with the computers on display,
             | though.
        
               | noisy_boy wrote:
               | The very first Unix I was exposed to was from Sun; I
               | remember seeing the logo on their servers and thinking
               | that those were the most beautiful computers I had seen
               | (which isn't much because I had hardly seen any servers
               | before that). I still remember that one of those came
               | with a key (forgot whether to turn it on or lock the
               | power button panel?)
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Didn't Sun computers run Irix? Is Irix Unix?
        
               | detaro wrote:
               | IRIX was SGI, not Sun (and anyways yes, it's a Unix).
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Thanks for clarifying. I always thought these other named
               | systems were Unix-like but not Unix but without going all
               | recursive like GNU with the naming
        
               | TickleSteve wrote:
               | The history of UNIX is complex...
               | 
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix)
        
               | an1sotropy wrote:
               | Suns ran Solaris, of course.
        
               | jjtheblunt wrote:
               | SunOS was BSD-ish originally, then around 1994 they
               | shifted to a more SVR4 variant and rebranded to Solaris.
               | I think Solaris 2.x was SVR4 and Solaris 1.x was BSD
               | retronaming of what was SunOS named earlier.
               | 
               | It's been a while so I may not have the numbers quite
               | right.
               | 
               | Anyway, there was some overlap in nomenclature, so a
               | version bump of the SunOS naming (and Solaris numbering)
               | implied a shift from BSD-ish to SVR4-ish, as I recall.
               | 
               | (And I worked for Sun for a while after that, and used
               | Suns a ton around the shift)
        
         | derbOac wrote:
         | Thanks for pointing that out, as I had almost forgotten about
         | that first edition.
         | 
         | I was trying to remember where I had heard of Chilton, the
         | publisher of the first edition, and realized it was automotive
         | manuals!
         | 
         | The story of that first edition is interesting and somewhat
         | sad, although maybe edifying and not alone in publishing and
         | other forms of narrative arts.
        
           | serallak wrote:
           | I remember reading that, because the editor was as you said
           | better know for its technical manuals, a friend of Herbert
           | joked that maybe they thought to publish an Ornithopter
           | maintenance guide.
        
         | BadOakOx wrote:
         | > Just the four letters D U N E, which are exactly the same
         | shape but rotated 90 degrees.
         | 
         | This is what they went with for the movie posters too:
         | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/Dune_%282021_...
         | ...although, they cheated a bit with the E.
         | 
         | EDIT: Here is a better resolution:
         | https://image.tmdb.org/t/p/original/2sxSn0jjjQoIIZfZjC6j5GZk...
         | :)
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | It reminds me a bit of a visit to the optician :)
        
           | thisOtterBeGood wrote:
           | DUNC :D:D
           | 
           | They went for the right decision there, I wouldn't call it
           | cheating. It's a nice to incorporate the
           | importance/uniqueness of that planet in the dune world. They
           | could've just went for a horizontal line/pipe and noone
           | wouldve cared.
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | I liked the original cover because it is the only one with a
         | truly alien landscape. Once the movies started being discussed,
         | Dune became and an earth desert with earth-like sandstone
         | rocks. Look at the rocks in the original cover. They were
         | different enough to clearly not be from earth geology.
        
         | dunefox wrote:
         | That's not arabic, rather just cursive.
        
           | xwdv wrote:
           | Many children have grown up these days without learning
           | cursive in school, thus every time they see squiggly fonts
           | they think Arabic first.
        
             | caskstrength wrote:
             | > Many children have grown up these days without learning
             | cursive in school, thus every time they see squiggly fonts
             | they think Arabic first.
             | 
             | Wait, are you saying that children in US schools write in
             | block letters these days? That must be slow!
        
             | dymk wrote:
             | Given the Arakkis language is based on Arabic, I would not
             | be surprised that the typographic design of Dune fonts is
             | supposed to evoke a feeling of Arabic
        
             | ZeroGravitas wrote:
             | My grandmother noticed graffiti tags, which are very ornate
             | generally, and concluded that they were written in arabic.
        
           | esrauch wrote:
           | I'm old enough to have mainly used cursive in school and I
           | definitely had the thought that it seemed like a vaguely
           | arabic-inspired cursive when I saw it the flourishes on the
           | D.
        
             | landhar wrote:
             | The flourishes in the D of that cover are exactly how I was
             | taught to write the uppercase D in cursive at school. I
             | remember (as a kid) thinking it was odd that to write a `D`
             | one had to start by writing an `I`, but never questioned
             | it.
             | 
             | But from looking at examples of cursive on google images,
             | it seems like that form is no longer as prominent.
        
               | bbarnett wrote:
               | _The flourishes in the D of that cover are exactly how I
               | was taught to write the uppercase D in cursive at
               | school._
               | 
               | We've now established that you went to school in Arab,
               | and this is why you wrote D in Arabic, for at no point
               | did you counter this logic.
               | 
               | (I am using chatgpt reasoning here)
        
           | SamBam wrote:
           | But quite clearly designed to draw a connection to the
           | Bedouin-inspired Fremen, and general North African-like
           | setting.
        
           | peepee1982 wrote:
           | I disagree.
           | 
           | The wide gamut in line thickness and the orientation of it is
           | typical for Arabic fonts, but not for cursive ones.
           | 
           | Personally, this kind of line reminds me of a arab dagger
           | even.
        
             | drivers99 wrote:
             | The variations in line thickness are exactly what you'd get
             | with a calligraphy pen (and pens before ball points like
             | fountain pens, quills) and are a function of the consistent
             | direction of the pen and the smoothly varying direction the
             | line is being written. So you will see it in all old
             | pen/quill writing styles.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dvh wrote:
       | I have nothing to add to the font aspect but here's fellow HNer's
       | advice how to approach these books:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20859569
        
         | jonah-archive wrote:
         | re the advice in that post -- I completely agree but I would
         | say that if you enjoy God Emperor (I do, deeply), between that
         | and Heretics go read _The Dune Encyclopedia_, which is a hard-
         | to-find paperback but an easy-to-find PDF written as an in-
         | universe encyclopedia set after God Emperor. Yes, some things
         | in it are contradicted by the remaining two books, but it adds
         | such a powerful structure to the extant universe in a
         | remarkably satisfying way.
        
           | mathieuh wrote:
           | I've read the Frank Herbert Dune books back-to-back several
           | times and love them all, but I've never tried his son's
           | additions to the series because I've read a few people saying
           | they're not worth the time. Do you agree?
        
             | jonah-archive wrote:
             | IMHO the Dune Encyclopedia (written in collaboration with
             | Frank Herbert) does a much better job elucidating aspects
             | of the Dune Universe in an interesting way than Brian's
             | books do -- there's a narrative thread that weaves through
             | the last three of Frank's books that is really, really
             | present and which Brian's books set aside for an
             | alternative -- and to my view, much less satisfying --
             | interpretation of late-stage events in the series.
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | It's not that they're not worth the time, but they're
             | clearly written by someone else, and try to attach onto a
             | cohesive whole in a way that doesn't quite feel right.
        
             | cmrdporcupine wrote:
             | They're quite bad, and I doubt very much they are based on
             | Frank Herbert's "found notes" in any way. If they are,
             | Brian Herbert should publish those notes, like Christopher
             | Tolkien did.
             | 
             | Lower quality writing, and not thoughtful, and the story
             | arc they take things in seems much cruder than what Frank
             | Herbert would have had in mind.
        
               | shagie wrote:
               | The trick in following from notes is that you need to
               | _become_ the author.
               | 
               | Consider Variable Star by Spider Robinson which is based
               | on 7 surviving pages of 8 pages of notes written in 1955
               | by Robert A. Heinlein.
               | 
               | http://www.spiderrobinson.com/reilly.html
               | 
               | > So I went home, and received a copy of Robert's outline
               | and notes, and loved them, and wrote two sample chapters
               | and a proposal and a title (Robert had put down seven
               | possible titles, but even he didn't like any of them
               | much), and they were all approved by Art Dula, and in the
               | fullness of time the book, to be known as "ROBERT A.
               | HEINLEIN'S VARIABLE STAR by Spider Robinson," sold to Tor
               | for the proverbial six figures.
               | 
               | > Since then, little dividends of joy keep coming in,
               | like the receding ripples of pleasure that accompany a
               | truly great orgasm--and sometimes, if you're lucky,
               | signal that it's about to become a multiple. For example,
               | Art Dula moved me to tears by sending me, out of the
               | blue, Robert's desk dictionary, heavily used and
               | carefully repaired--Robert Heinlein's personal box of
               | words. He filled out the package with a pound of
               | authentic Jamaica Blue Mountain. Similarly, sweet Amy
               | sent me a set of her grandfather's cufflinks to wear as I
               | type VARIABLE STAR, and Jeanne a few pieces of her
               | grandmother's jewelry to wear for me when I stumble from
               | the typewriter. I feel supported and encouraged by the
               | whole Heinlein family and legacy. That makes me the
               | luckiest writer alive. And one of the luckiest readers.
               | 
               | When writing it, he had the same "these are the words
               | that you are to use while writing as Heinlein."
               | 
               | One of the reviews
               | http://www.spiderrobinson.com/variablefans.html
               | 
               | > This novel should be the example held forth when
               | writers collaborate. Spider has perfectly captured the
               | pacing, feel and stature of a Robert Heinlein story while
               | retaining his own identity. It doesn't feel like someone
               | trying to "write like Heinlein", but like someone who's
               | read every book the man's written so many times it's
               | second nature.
               | 
               | https://bookshop.org/p/books/variable-star-robert-a-
               | heinlein...
               | 
               | > "Completing a book from notes by a dead author is
               | almost always a mistake. But Robert A. Heinlein
               | apparently isn't really dead. He was obviously standing
               | at the side of Spider Robinson as he wrote this book,
               | guiding his hand. Variable Star will delight the fans of
               | the greatest science fiction writer who ever lived, and
               | at the same time, stays true to Spider's passionate
               | themes of optimism, kindness, and humanity's future among
               | the stars." --John Varley, Hugo and Nebula Award-winning
               | author of The Persistence of Vision and Steel Beach
               | 
               | This is the way to do continuations - not fan fiction
               | but, for lack of a better word, channeling the spirit of
               | the original author so that you can become them and use
               | the same style rather than imposing your own style on top
               | of their world.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | I think Christopher Tolkien pretty much did this. And
               | what was great was the way he edited (with his father's
               | blessing), did a small amount of continuation, as well as
               | published the original notes, so we could all see the
               | authorial process.
               | 
               | However in Tolkien's case, there was an explicit father
               | son work relationship that was grounded in their mutual
               | love and family life, and the fact that both had similar
               | education, etc.
               | 
               | My understanding is Brian Herbert was estranged from his
               | father and they had a bad relationship.
               | 
               | And Brian Herbert brought in an outside writer (Kevin J
               | Anderson) to do a lot (most?) of the actual writing.
               | 
               | The world of Dune fans would have been better served if
               | Herbert had simply published his father's notes, maybe
               | with some annotations or reflections.
               | 
               | Given the above, and as hasn't provided those notes and
               | documents he apparently found, and as the plot veers
               | quite a bit in tone from what Frank Herbert seemed to me
               | to have in mind, I actually have a hard time believing
               | the notes he is apparently working from actually exist.
               | 
               | Further, the published works he has created are really
               | not good.
        
             | dunefox wrote:
             | It's just Dune fan fiction...
        
               | giantrobot wrote:
               | It's just a model!
        
             | latch wrote:
             | I'm not the parent, but I've also read all the original 6
             | books a great number of times, as well as about 7 or 8 of
             | the B. Herbert/K. Anderson Dune books, and I'd say they
             | aren't worth it.
             | 
             | They largely explain things that, as far as I'm concerned,
             | didn't need explaining. As you probably know, they wrote a
             | 2 book conclusion to the series. These 2 books largely tie
             | the Frank Herbert Dune universe with the B. Herbert/K.
             | Anderson Dune universe. And that seemed quite forced to me
             | and, cynically, felt like an attempt to force you to read
             | their Dune prequel trilogy (because otherwise, you'll be
             | WTF is Erasmus?) I feel like Frank Herbert, being an
             | immensely better writer, would have been able to conclude
             | the series without forcing a prequel trilogy onto readers.
             | 
             | It wasn't until I read some of the more immediate books
             | (universe time-wise) from the duo that I came to appreciate
             | how effortless Frank Herbert's writing is. Gurney Halleck
             | is loyal, he just is. And that loyalty is clearly based on
             | respect for the Duke, being on the side of "good", and a
             | hate for the Harkonnen. We don't need a justification for
             | Halleck's devotion. It's pure and effortless character
             | development. The duo doesn't have that seem ease of
             | writing, so instead we get the back story, torture and rape
             | (lazy themes) that tainted the character/original work.
        
               | indymike wrote:
               | > These 2 books largely tie the Frank Herbert Dune
               | universe with the B. Herbert/K. Anderson Dune universe.
               | And that seemed quite forced to me and, cynically, felt
               | like an attempt to force you to read their Dune prequel
               | trilogy
               | 
               | I really like the Frank Herbert books. They are on my
               | favorites shelf. The sequel/prequel books were just ok,
               | and felt like they were trying to fill in details that
               | were left to the reader by Frank Herbert. By filling in
               | the details, I'm sure the thought was we are completing
               | the story... but that story was already told.
        
               | jonah-archive wrote:
               | I totally agree with this. One of the strengths of the
               | original Dune series is how willing Frank Herbert is to
               | leave things unsaid -- it's a complex universe that has
               | lost a lot of knowledge, just like ours! It covers
               | timespans that admit archaeology! The idea that there's
               | an accessible succinct narrative arc that ties the story
               | up in a neat little bow is antithetical to the strengths
               | of the original series, in my opinion.
        
               | bena wrote:
               | That may the difference between good world-building and
               | what people think good world-building is.
               | 
               | People think that if the author doesn't know everything
               | about the world, it's not "fleshed out". But if you look
               | to some of the best fiction out there, the world is more
               | suggested than built.
               | 
               | I think a good example of this is George Lucas. He went
               | from good to bad by doing the thing people perceived as
               | good. In the original Star Wars trilogy, things just are.
               | The Clone Wars were a line. A throwaway to explain why
               | Leia was seeking out Obi-Wan never having even seen the
               | man. Han and all of his pre-trilogy relationships are
               | given surface level explanations. You never go deep. What
               | happens between A New Hope and Empire is suggested,
               | alluded to, but never explained. And why should they be
               | explained? All the characters _know_ these things. There
               | 's no need to exposit these things again. You're given
               | the impression that there exists a much larger world than
               | the small window you've seen.
               | 
               | Then, in the prequel trilogy, everything is presented as
               | backstory to some other element. Stormtroopers are the
               | successors of the Clone Troopers who are cloned from
               | Jango Fett who had a clone made of himself he named Boba.
               | Of course, Jango is also a bounty hunter. Anakin is from
               | Tatooine. Chewbacca rolled with Yoda back in the day. We
               | know, biologically, exactly what allows people to access
               | the Force. And on and on. Everything is given an
               | explanation. And that, ironically, makes the world feel a
               | lot smaller.
        
               | devaler wrote:
               | This a really strong, and very good breakdown of the
               | problems with the prequels. They essentially take the
               | complex, developed characters of Frank Herbert and turn
               | them into into trite caricatures of themselves.
        
               | andrewla wrote:
               | I loved Dune, and while I don't think all the original
               | sequels were as strong, I enjoyed them all and have
               | reread them several times over the years.
               | 
               | I slogged my way through the first couple of his son's
               | work, but I read the first page of Butlerian Jihad and,
               | for the first time in my life, threw the book against the
               | wall and tossed it in the garbage.
               | Inside his pyramid-shaped vessel, the cymek general
               | Agamemnon led the attack. Logical thinking machines
               | did not care about glory or revenge. But Agamemnon
               | certainly did. Fully alert inside his preservation
               | cannister, his human brain watched the plans unfold.
               | 
               | If you're a fan of Dune and made it all the way through
               | this paragraph without feeling ill, then you're a
               | stronger person than I.
        
               | themadturk wrote:
               | I so wanted the Bulterian Jihad story to be good, or at
               | least decent, because it was always the most intriguing
               | part of the prehistory to me. Oh well.
        
               | int_19h wrote:
               | There are strong indicators that "Jihad" was used not in
               | a sense of armed struggle there, but more akin to a
               | social revolution; "thinking machines" were declared a
               | problem not because they were a physical threat a la
               | Saberhagen's Berserkers, but because their influence on
               | society was deemed overly negative.
               | 
               | Given that, a book that would cover the Jihad would
               | probably be another philosophical treatise in the vein of
               | God-Emperor of Dune.
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | Sounds like the hackneyed portrayal of Harkonnen as a
               | super villain who has to refer to himself in the third
               | person while exposition dumping his plan to a nephew who
               | already knows who he is.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | It's interesting (and perhaps accurate) that you critique
               | the use of lazy themes in backstory, but praise the
               | effortlessness of leaving the backstory out. (I've not
               | read the new stuff myself)
        
             | gerikson wrote:
             | I tried reading the first and couldn't get through it.
        
         | runevault wrote:
         | I'm someone who stopped after God Emperor because I was under
         | the impression the next books were an arc and it stops in a
         | weird place if you end where Herbert did because of his
         | passing.
         | 
         | It was interesting because I struggled with Dune, made it to
         | the time skip, and stopped. Then the recent movie came out, I
         | decided to read the rest, enjoyed it far more, and kept going.
         | Blasted through Messiah through God Emperor pretty quickly with
         | I think only one pause to get another book in that had just
         | come out.
         | 
         | God Emperor is certainly not for everyone but I enjoyed it a
         | great deal.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | dmitriid wrote:
         | My personal take (having read the entire series including the
         | tacked-on ending by the son) is:
         | 
         | The first Dune is the result of research and thinking. Great
         | care went into it. Every subsequent book is more and more of
         | "oh, here's a sequel". I can't remember anything after _God
         | Emperor_ which in itself was a slog bordering of abysmally bad.
         | 
         | So:
         | 
         | - _Dune_. Yes. It 's slow, long, but ultimately very good
         | 
         | - _Dune Messiah_. Maybe
         | 
         | - _Children of Dune_. Can already be skipped
         | 
         | - Skip the rest of the series, they are not worth it. At all
         | 
         | YMMV :)
        
           | simonh wrote:
           | I really like Dune Messiah. Most of it was written before the
           | original book was published, and supposedly it was going to
           | be part of it but had to be cut or the book would be too
           | long. It's certainly part of Herbert's original creative
           | vision for the story. However I know a lot of people read it
           | and find the apparent inversion of the story arc
           | uncomfortable to the point of dislike, but for me it's an
           | essential piece of the puzzle to understand what Paul is
           | actually going through in the first book, and the extreme
           | lengths he's prepared to go through and sacrifices he's
           | prepared to make to shift the trajectory of events.
           | 
           | The problem is that just like the other characters the in
           | novel, Paul's family, adherents and friends, a lot of readers
           | just want an uncomplicated hero story for him.
        
           | cmrdporcupine wrote:
           | God Emperor is a slog, but it's IMHO brilliant in its own
           | way. And along with the two books after it, it creates a
           | whole new philosophical universe than the first three, which
           | were a story about Paul. It's best to kind of treat it almost
           | as two different series with God Emperor the bridge.
           | 
           | God Emperor and beyond are far more cerebral and
           | philosophical, expressing some more far more abstract ideas
           | Herbert had about man vs machine, liberty/freedom vs tyranny,
           | etc. etc.
           | 
           | Unfortunately the second series was not completed. Herbert
           | clearly had a direction he was going after Chapterhouse, but
           | he wasn't able to follow through.
        
           | jon-wood wrote:
           | For me the sequels never hit the same highs as Dune, but
           | they're still better than most sci-fi novels that have been
           | written, and I love how they gradually lean ever further into
           | just being really weird. God Emperor is probably the pinnacle
           | of that. I don't remember much of Heretics or Chapterhouse, I
           | should probably go back and re-read them at some point.
        
             | cmrdporcupine wrote:
             | You might find it interesting re-reading God Emperor and
             | its sequels in the context of today's LLM/ChatGTP etc
             | context.
             | 
             | Herbert's focus on human vs not-human, machine-thinking vs
             | human-thinking, is very relevant.
        
         | jasonkester wrote:
         | Ah, shame. I was hoping to find my own comment on the subject
         | linked:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15961291
         | 
         | Basically the same advice, but in a more condensed form.
        
       | GNOMES wrote:
       | Is there a name for the art style depicted on these covers?
       | They're beautifully done
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Deco
         | 
         | The covers are a 1960s minimalist deco design. Abrupt geometric
         | shapes, the sort of stuff that is easily printed/viewed using
         | the tech of the time. The colors are solid and few, which make
         | printing easy. The colors are also not absolutely necessary.
         | The shapes come through equally well in black and white media.
         | And if you want to look good on the low-res TV of the time, you
         | go with big solid shapes. No doubt these factors contributed to
         | the redesign of the original cover.
         | 
         | Contrast the posters and covers of todays media. They like to
         | hide lots of little detail, perhaps to promote the use of
         | higher/brighter media formats. That's why FIFA got rid of the
         | old soccer balls.
        
           | TheRealPomax wrote:
           | Sorry, are we looking at the same covers? There is no 1960s
           | minimalism in the original covers, they are fairly detailed
           | 1970's scifi surrealism.
        
           | GNOMES wrote:
           | I normally see Art Deco in reference to buildings, furniture,
           | and cars. Guess I never actually looked at Art Deco
           | paintings/images before.
        
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