[HN Gopher] Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Com... ___________________________________________________________________ Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0) Author : xaviex Score : 155 points Date : 2023-01-27 20:40 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.dndbeyond.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.dndbeyond.com) | kayodelycaon wrote: | Well. That was unexpected. Given what's been happening to | Twitter, I didn't have any hope that WOTC would do anything | sensible. | | I suspect they'll pull this bullshit again the next time someone | looks at a balance sheet. | roblabla wrote: | At least the SRD5 is now _irrevocably_ in the creative commons. | So the situation now is somewhat better, they can 't simply | revoke the license anymore for that document. | dragonwriter wrote: | > At least the SRD5 is now irrevocably in the creative | commons. | | They changed the underlying law of licenses that makes | gratuitous licenses revocable at will independent of the | content of the license? How? | chrisoverzero wrote: | You've asserted something like this a few times on HN, and | your responses are undetailed enough (or flavored with fake | astonishment, like this one) that you seem to think it's | obvious. | | Isn't the requirement of attribution the consideration in | cases like this? Which would make it not gratuitous? Here's | open source lawyer and HN user 'DannyBee saying so, for | example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14557737 | int_19h wrote: | As applied to open source licenses, that is a legal theory, | not settled law, and there are many people, including | lawyers who professionally deal with F/OSS, who disagree | with you. | | https://lwn.net/Articles/747563/ | [deleted] | tunesmith wrote: | Is there actually not a catch here? I'm only somewhat familiar | with the debate. | johnday wrote: | Yep - not only is there no catch _right now_ , but they | literally can never add one. The SRD is released under CC- | BY-4.0. | | The only point of contention is what happens to their new | product, One D&D, which will probably retain some nasty payment | structure, and almost certainly not be OGL'd. That's fine | though - if they build a walled garden around One D&D, they | simply won't be able to compete against the open community of | 5e. | tonfreed wrote: | It'll be funny if all those juicy royalties they think | they're going to get never materialise because no one wants | to develop for their system. | gpm wrote: | CC-BY-4.0 for those wondering _which_ creative commons license. | That means attribution required, but no significant other | limitations. | Pet_Ant wrote: | I expected SA "share alike" (aka "viral") | dragonwriter wrote: | SA would be worse for WotC; as they move to OneD&D, they | would rather have the 5.1 derived third party products to be | separate silos that draw on the 5.1 base rather than cross- | pollinating. So third parties _not_ sharing-alike is what | they want. | [deleted] | tptacek wrote: | So this is a clean, complete win, right? Once the license | controversy started, there was no reasonable ask beyond this | outcome? | Macha wrote: | I'd say this is 99% of a win. The one thing it does still leave | is the claim they can de-authorize 1.0a at will later. For | active products this is not a problem, as CC BY is a strictly | more permissive license and they just move to claiming they're | using the CC license. | | However, for second-order derivatives there is still one | problem. | | 1. Third Party A uses OGL 1.0a content from Wizards, licenses | its own work as OGL 1.0a as a result | | 2. Later Third Party A goes out of business | | 3. Third Party B reused Third Party A's content under OGL 1.0a. | | 4. There's no one left to relicense Third Party A's content | under CC BY. | | But "don't make second order derivatives of abandonware | content" is a lot easier to work around than "don't make stuff | compatible with the large existing ecosystem" | rsstack wrote: | Note that the license is CC-BY-4.0, not -SA. Doesn't change | anything material in what you wrote, just FYI. | Macha wrote: | Thanks, luckily the edit window is still open so I fixed my | post | kubb wrote: | nice | krisroadruck wrote: | What a huge and welcomed about-face. Massive kudos to the | community of dedicated fans, players, and creators who helped get | this done. | [deleted] | jron wrote: | WOTC (Hasbro) was trying to revoke a license the authors intended | to be irrevocable. Everything else was a red herring. I'm | guessing their legal team had more to do with this change of | heart than consumer/publisher feedback. | dragonwriter wrote: | > WOTC (Hasbro) was trying to revoke a license the authors | intended to be irrevocable. | | WotC was the legal author, and gratuitous licenses are | revocable at will, anyway. | Macha wrote: | So the discussions from previous is that having consideration | in return for a license makes it a contract rather than a | gratuitous license. In this case the OGL specifies that | licensing your work as OGL and including the OGL text in your | work counts as consideration. | | If you think the claim for that being consideration is too | frail, the Artistic License from old Perl versions is a | similarly permissive license, and Jacobsen vs Katzer held up | that it counted as a contract with all that implies for | revocability and (in particular for that case), whether | failure to uphold your end is copyright infringement or | breach of contract. | | Some more context (and in particular how it applies to open | source - if you use MIT licensed software, the idea that | permissive licenses are gratuitous licenses is not a | precedent you want set): https://lwn.net/Articles/747563/ | jron wrote: | The original author is on record stating that it was intended | to be irrevocable. There was also a quote on the official | WOTC website stating the license couldn't be revoked. IANAL | but I wouldn't take that case to court. | kderbyma wrote: | Sweet. That's nice to see | imwillofficial wrote: | And that folks is how you do it. Faith in humanity restored | ArtWomb wrote: | >>> For the fewer than 20 creators worldwide who make more than | $750,000 in income in a year, we will add a royalty starting in | 2024. So, even for the creators making significant money selling | D&D supplements and games, no royalties will be due for 2023 and | all revenue below $750,000 in future years will be royalty-free. | | My "Star Frontiers" fan video game is go! | | https://www.starfrontiers.com/ | codazoda wrote: | As an FYI my browser blocks all your JS because it's served | over http even though the page is https. | SeanAnderson wrote: | The community WOTC built over decades shouldn't have to give | feedback that 85%+ identify with in order to achieve results that | are desirable. If community sentiment is so lopsided then what | was the rationale to make the decision in the first place and how | was the communities' desire not implicitly understood? | | There is no doubt in my mind that WOTC (let's be real, Hasbro) | has enough self-awareness to have realized they were encroaching | significantly on their core demographic. They chose to do so | anyway and are backtracking out of an interest of self- | preservation rather than a customer-first mindset. | | I find this shameful enough behavior to warrant a legitimate, | heartfelt apology. Instead, they present themselves as benevolent | caretakers listening to their communities' response. This comes | across as tone-deaf because they've already lost the trust of the | community and don't seem to have learned how to take ownership of | that fact. | | Still, this is a better result than if they'd stayed their | advertised course. So, for that, I am thankful. | pubby wrote: | > how was the communities' desire not implicitly understood? | | IMO it's common for people at the top of a hierarchy to be out | of touch with those on the bottom. It takes dedication to stay | in touch, but even with effort a bigwig can't experience the | community exactly as a peon does. Usually, they have to do | market research (like this poll) to find out what people really | think. | | I'm not saying this as a defense or anything, but I find it | helpful to think about. | TillE wrote: | Given the extremely fast and extremely comprehensive U-turn, | it seems like a lot of people near the top did understand the | community very well. | | Somehow, one person or one small faction made a different | decision, and the overwhelming feedback proved it was the | wrong decision. | Macha wrote: | Well, there were two attempts at more minor climbdowns | before this capitulation, so it seems more likely that the | immediate financial impact from mass unsubscriptions was a | motivating factor than prior understanding from the execs | who were largely pushing this strategy if leaks are to be | believed. | tonfreed wrote: | The least they could do is sit down once a month with the | game designers for a session of dungeon crawling. The main | two in charge have both said they don't play | roenxi wrote: | I disagree because the fundamental core of this argument is | "everyone in a community should think alike". That isn't | realistic, and using that as a principle leads to bad results - | we have to be used to having robust communities with | questionable leadership. The natural state of leadership is to | be a bit shabby and not quite up to the task. We have the | internet now, we have great visibility on what leaders actually | do and they can't meet impossible standards. Although that is | why decentralisation is so powerful - WOTC doesn't run your | games night and doesn't send out a goon squad to police that | people aren't using house rules. | | WOTC don't have the same incentives as their community. A | company producing a game almost never has the same incentives | as their community. As long as their incentives align with | folding in the face of solid negative feedback, that is enough. | | They made a mistake, they appear to have recognised the mistake | and course corrected. Asking for more than that is going to get | less - it encourages lies and bad, blandness. | michaelcampbell wrote: | > has enough self-awareness to have realized they were | encroaching significantly on their core demographic. | | At least where I am in the US, the behavior of many | corporations seems to indicate they... just don't give a shit. | People will take what they can get, by and large, and as long | as it makes the corporation money, they're willing to risk it. | | Who actually _likes_ not having a single register open at Wal | Mart, Home Depot, and the like? Who is for having products be a | little bit more expensive, but reducing the quanity 10%-20% | (eg: shrinkflation)? Plenty more examples. | jbm wrote: | A minor point, but I am grateful for the self checkout lanes | -- they have greatly speeded up my checkout, and w/ covid | spiking I just want to leave asap. | | I have never seen "no" registers open though. | Macha wrote: | Not the US, but no manned registers happens often enough | across various store chains here in Dublin at least. To the | point where you might have to wave down a staff member | restocking a shelf because the self-service needs someone | to authorise your alchohol purchase or whatever. | gspetr wrote: | >At least where I am in the US | | I am somewhat perplexed by that statement. | | Are you implying that there are major jurisdictions in the US | where WotC wouldn't have been able to fully enforce | compliance with their (originally) overly restrictive | license? | tonfreed wrote: | I think they've completely misunderstood their product. The | execs in charge of running the show come from video games, and | watching what they're trying to do with DnD beyond makes it | pretty obvious they're trying to introduce micro transaction | hell and loot boxes into the product. | | Matt Colville whacked the nail on the head when he said D&D | isn't really a game, it's a folk tradition and storytelling. | Those are two very difficult things to monetize. | johannes1234321 wrote: | Yes, that is a critical part. They want to make DnD Beyond | the core of the product. The main channel, where "ideally" | both, DMs and players, have to buy each little piece of | content and an expensive subscription to create their own | scenarios instead of books, which are expensive to produce, | ship etc. and then are shared in a group (or kept for DM's | eyes only) And they "have to" extract as much revenue from | third parties like Paizo and get consumers of their platform. | | If they get rid of story telling etc. they even can look at | AI DMs leading a Dungeon Crawl to increase time of their | consumers on their platform, even without fixed groups etc. | Extract as much value as possible (and destroy the game) | voakbasda wrote: | Yup, trust once broken cannot be rebuilt easily. Too many | companies make these kinds of bad PR moves, backtrack | temporarily, and then quietly deploy their plans after the | initial furor dies down. I wager that the winds here will shift | back to blow against their customers soon enough. Want us to | believe otherwise? An apology would only be the start; they | need to swallow a legally enforceable poison pill that prevents | such from happening. | crayboff wrote: | I mean, they did a huge thing that can't be backed out of, | they released SRD 5.1 under creative commons. | | Yeah they did some not great stuff, but let's celebrate the | successes when we get them! | tonfreed wrote: | Paizo's seen the target on their back now, I doubt they're | going to halt their plans to produce the ORC. I suspect the | only way WoTC will be able to get any trust back in the | community is to sign on with that | gspetr wrote: | >legally enforceable poison pill | | This seems somewhat unlikely IMO. WotC is a subsidiary of | Hasbro, a publicly traded company. | | Measures that can be potentially interpreted as restrictive | on shareholders' profits seem quite difficult to pass. | victorvosk wrote: | Real people have disagreements and work through them. Lets not | be mad for the sake of being mad. It was completely within the | rights of WOTC to do whatever they wanted. People complained | and they decided not to do and guarantee they will never do it | in the future. Be happy. | ninth_ant wrote: | I understand what you're saying, but attempting to revoke a | widely-used open source license is not just something | completely within their rights. | | Their sudden claim to have ability to "deauthorize" the 20+ | year old OGL and destroy the partners and competitors who | built businesses on the promises of a perpetual license - | this was an egregious move that was almost certainly not | within their rights. | | Legal analysts were quite consistent in that it's impossible | to be certain but this process wouldn't have withstood a | solid legal test. | | WotC, in trying to pull this, was attempting to leverage | their expensive legal team to bully people into giving away | their legal rights under the open license. That's shady and | deeply unethical, and shouldn't be considered to be within | their rights. | | Now for the future content they make, they can release that | under a closed license if they want and _that_ is within | their rights even if I don't like that license. | vaylian wrote: | A bit more context: | | * Wizards of the Coast (WoTC) has been tasked by Hasbro (which | owns WoTC) to drastically increase profits over a few years. | | * WoTC has been aggressively increasing prices on Magic the | Gathering (MTG) and drastically increased the diversity of | products. This overwhelmed even people who follow and produce MTG | news. Wallet fatique is rampant and people are disgruntled. | | * WoTC releases the 30th aniversary edition for MTG, which is 60 | random cards for 1000 $ which are officially marked as non- | tournament legal. The MTG community is furious and for once | people from all corners of the community come together to boycott | this product. The rage is great and enduring. | | * WoTC fails to meet expectations and the stock prices plummet | | * To do damage control, WoTC/Hasbro annouces a "fireside chat" | for their shareholders where they try to explain the situation | but basically just say "we did nothing wrong and we are trying to | extract a lot of money from Dungeons and Dragons next" | | * Unlike the MTG community, the DnD community is very good at | organizing a unified response and the shitstorm came swiftly and | took WoTC by surprise. (Don't mess with Dungeon Masters who know | how to call together a group of people) | | The real problem is the managers at WoTC that don't really care | about the games. They only care about money. I expect more bad | things in the future. | TigeriusKirk wrote: | There's only so much water in the well, though, and they might | well be close to that limit. It's not an infinitely growable | market, it's a niche product. True, the niche has gotten quite | large in recent years, but at this point it's at least as | likely to shrink as to grow. | boomboomsubban wrote: | >WoTC releases the 30th aniversary edition for MTG, which is 60 | random cards for 1000 $ which are officially marked as non- | tournament legal. The MTG community is furious and for once | people from all corners of the community come together to | boycott this product. The rage is great and enduring. | | Yet somehow the product completely sold out in under an hour. I | really don't understand the outrage on that decision, would you | prefer that everyone can buy their useless commutative coins? | deeviant wrote: | > I really don't understand the outrage on that decision | | What decision are you claiming people were outraged? | | Because the actual reason people where outraged is the very | existence of the magic 30th edition in the first place. It is | one of the clearest and starkest examples of a company | disrespecting it's customer, ever. | roenxi wrote: | Also - why are people upset over a product (that doesn't | affect the game) being sold to people others? I feel like | important context is missing here over why anyone would be | upset by this. | qazwse_ wrote: | I think that there was a sense that WotC was going to do | something special for Magic's 30th anniversary - something | for the community at large. Instead, they released a | mediocre, $1000 product. | harimau777 wrote: | My guess is the feeling that if the product is successful, | then the corporation might create similar products that are | less optional. Or they may neglect or discontinue their | less customer hostile products. | | It's also probably reasonable to be upset that they are | pricing a significant portion of their community out of a | product that ostensibly celebrates the success of the | community. | lbotos wrote: | Imagine a game with 30 years of history, genre defining, | that has die hard fans and then take some cards, make | effectively "fake" versions (not tournament legal) and | charge $1000 for 60 of them. | | They could have done a LOT more cooler things and | passionate lovers of the game wish that they did. | freshhawk wrote: | This is a segment of geek culture that has all sorts of | ego/identity stuff tied up with these brands. So when they | don't "act properly" it feels like it reflects on them and | they take it personally. | | That's the downside to having that market segment as your | customers, the upside is that they are fanatically loyal | and are not remotely picky or discerning as | customers/consumers. | armitron wrote: | WoTC says it sold out, there's no actual proof of that (in | fact, some insiders are saying that it was taken off the | market due to the bad publicity) | moralestapia wrote: | Ironically, removing them early from the market further | increases their value. | pclmulqdq wrote: | They have never claimed that it sold out, just that the | sale concluded. Stores are actually on the list to get | allocation for M30 product to sell. | sundarurfriend wrote: | So from a little bit of digging around for context (as a non-DnD | player): | | * SRD = System Reference Document [1], is a kind of specification | of the DnD rules, that people use to create add-on DnD-related | content. | | * OGL = Open Game License [2], which the SRD is licensed under. | | * There was a(n apparently very unpopular) proposal to move to | OGL 1.2 (which I guess is more restrictive). | | * Now it seems like SRD 5.1 will be dual-licensed under both OGL | 1.0a and Creative Commons. | | (I can feel a rabbit hole awaiting me if I dig further, and I've | gotten enough of a gist to satisfy myself, so I didn't look into | what a VTT policy is.) | | [1] | https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/System_Reference_Doc... | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License | [deleted] | Macha wrote: | For more context: | | Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast (the company that has owned D&D for | the last 20 years) released the rules text and some basic | creative content like classes, some monsters, etc. for D&D 3.5 | under a custom open source inspired license called the OGL. | It's sort of a weird blend of GPL-esque virality clauses but | the actual restrictions it places are much more akin to a | permissive license like Apache. This led to an explosion of | third party content. | | When D&D 4e came around, Wizards felt they didn't want to | compete with that so they released D&D 4e under a new license | called the GSL which was much more restrictive to allow them to | shut down competitors, which caused third parties to shun 4e | and continue publishing 3.5e content. | | Partly because of the continued existence of the 3.5e ecosystem | (along with some controversial video game inspired gameplay | changes), 4e largely failed and alienated the fanbase. So they | released 5e with a number of peace offerings to the community, | one of which was that 5e would use the OGL again. | | Now Wizards are on the cusp of releasing OneD&D (6e). Part of | their strategy for 6e is their own virtual tabletop (VTT) | product. A virtual tabletop is effectively a software product | which gives players a chatroom + shared map and drawing tools | so they can effectively play tabletop games which are designed | around more props online. Wizards plan for their own VTT | includes a very video game inspired monetisation model where | they would sell skins, spells, subclasses etc. | | The problem they have is this: they are a very late comer to | the VTT market, since they haven't launched their product yet, | while their competitors (especially roll20) have been going for | near a decade now. And these competitors were perfectly in | their right under the OGL 1.0a license to use enough content to | enable their players to play D&D on it. Wizards did not feel | having more content and a higher fidelity product was going to | be sufficient to drive players to their microtransaction filled | product, so they did not want to release 6e under OGL. | | But they remembered the 3.5e/4e problem. They didn't want to | release their new, more locked down 6e and have everyone just | keep playing 5e and 5e derived content under the OGL. So they | decided they would try exploit some of the wording of OGL 1.0a | to de-authorize it and replace it with a new OGL 1.1 which was | a very draconian license given Wizards royalty-free unlimited | licenses to other 1.1 content, yet imposing royalties, | attribution, registration and field of use restrictions on | third parties. That way nobody could keep making 5e VTT | plugins, 5e addons, etc. and everyone would have to go to 6e | and the competitor VTTs would die from not being able to | support the most popular game. | | This leaked when they asked third parties to sign it, to much | bad press, so Wizards announced OGL 1.2. It did roll back many | of the more egregious restrictions from the 1.1 version, but it | still kept veto power with wizards (wrapped up in an anti- | hateful content clause, but one that was so broad and required | waiving a right to contest to the extent wizards could define | competing too closely with them as hateful behaviour), and it | still put limits on what VTTs could do and allowed them to | change the rights of VTTs at any moment. | | Players still felt this was not enough and did largely vote | with their wallet by cancelling subscriptions to D&D beyond, | D&D's online content distribution and character builder service | that was to be the baseline of the new planned VTT, to such a | level that Wizards have now had to capitulate and roll back | their planned changes to existing and older editions at least. | djur wrote: | VTT is a virtual tabletop. It's useful to be able to load the | game's rules into the software so it can keep track of stats, | equipment, etc. | david2ndaccount wrote: | Disappointed this is only the 5e srd and not the 3.0/3.5 one. | lincolnq wrote: | Can someone explain more about what happened here? | genderwhy wrote: | WotC licenses some of their content using the Open Gaming | License. It ostensibly covers both the rules* of D&D as well as | key elements of the setting -- particular monsters, characters, | place names, spells, etc. | | That license has allowed products and content creators to build | on top of a shared platform -- using and reprinting portions of | D&D's content to build their own worlds, stories, systems, etc. | Note: not everything D&D publishes is covered by the OGL, just | a set of core items they call the SRD -- Systems Reference | Document. | | WotC/Hasbro leaked that they were working on OGL 1.1 which had | a bunch of ambiguous (and many argued harmful) language that | required creators to do things like license their content back | to WotC, pay fees to license content, control what and what was | not appropriate to build on top of OGL, etc. | | The OGL 1.1 was met with _huge_ community backlash, and wotc | has been fumbling for some time to figure out the next steps. | It looks like they are taking those steps now. | | * Aside, it's not clear that the rules of D&D are even | something that can be licensed in this way, as game mechanics | are not protected the same way as copyrightable characters are. | Wistar wrote: | Here is a transcript of piece about the debacle from NPR from a | few days ago. | | https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1151474346 | eslaught wrote: | Here are a few of the prominent past HN posts: | | Dungeons and Dragons' new license tightens its grip on | competition https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34264777 | | An Update on the Open Game License (OGL) | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34370340 | | Basically WotC wanted to not only change their future content | to a more restrictive license, they also wanted to | _retroactively_ switch _older_ content to that license. It | seemed like an obvious legal land-grab. Fans objected, and (at | least to my surprise, others here seem to be more cynical) WotC | did a 180 on the license and adopted CC-4.0-BY. | teach wrote: | This is oversimplified but hopefully close enough. | | A couple of versions ago, Wizards of the Coast released a | subset of the D&D rules for free with a pretty open license. | That free subset was called the SRD and the license was the OGL | 1.0a. It allowed third-parties to publish D&D-compatible | adventures and such without royalties. And, crucially, the OGL | had a clause that seemed to make it irrevocable in the future. | | Essentially, "if you build on our system, we won't come after | you for money or with lawyers, forever, we promise." | | The result was an explosion in third-party content and overall | an explosion in the popularity of D&D as a whole. | | Recently, WotC released a draft of a new license that a lot of | people interpreted as going back on this promise. The community | was up in arms, then WotC released several waffling non- | apologies. | | This, at least, sounds like they realized they can't put the | genie back in the bottle and have given up trying. | tonfreed wrote: | It wasn't even a released draft. It was a leak of what was | essentially a shakedown that WoTC tried to bully independents | into signing earlier in January. | | That they even now keep referring to it as a draft is pretty | indicative that they're not acting in good faith | wardedVibe wrote: | Wizards tried to change their license so that all third party | material (books, virtual table tops, anything using the srd) | was treated the way videogame mods are, and charge 30% of | revenue (this was ogl 1.1). Players unsubscribed from the | subscription based en mass, and their largest competitor | (paizo, who owns pathfinder, and came about because of the last | time they tried this) created an equivalent of the Linux | foundation for srd licenses, and sold 8 months of product in 2 | weeks. | karaterobot wrote: | Paizo basically exists to take advantage of bad moves made by | WoTC. The cancellation of their license to print _Dungeon_ | and _Dragon_ magazines being the inciting event for the | company to release its own product, and the disaster that was | 4th edition being the rocket fuel that launched it. | Pathfinder, a derivative product, was more popular than its | parent for a couple years! | danjoredd wrote: | TBH I like Paizo better. Pathfinder generally feels more in | tune with the spirit of D&D than D&D itself does sometimes. | wlesieutre wrote: | After an earlier history of legal action against 3rd party | publishers (TSR essentially bullying competitors to | bankruptcy)[0], D&D's core rules were released under a license | called the "Open Gaming License", which includes a license | update provision reading "Wizards or its designated Agents may | publish updated versions of this License. You may use any | authorized version of this License to copy, modify and | distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under | any version of this License." | | The promise of that license built an ecosystem of people making | and publishing their own content compatible with the official | D&D rules. | | WotC recently declared that they were switching to an updated | version of the license, _and_ that they were deauthorizing the | previous version. | | The new license included rules such as revenue sharing, | limitations on how the rules can be implemented in software | tools, and giving WotC the ability to revoke your license to | the content. People are largely not happy about this change, | especially with WotC's plan to retroactively cancel the current | license and replace it with this worse one. | | This has led to Paizo announcing their own open license with | many other publishers on board [1], and a lot of D&D's vocal | fanbase talking about moving their games to other systems with | more favorable licensing. | | Pathfinder 2, Paizo's competing system, apparently sold out | what should have been an 8-month supply of their printed books | in the last two weeks [2], and that's a system that puts all | the official rules content online for free. | | This announcement today of the SRD being released under CC- | BY-4.0 is means WotC is canceling their plans to only license | their system under the proposed OGL revision, since the CC-BY | license more definitely can't be revoked once you've licensed | content under it. | | [0] https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/04/bols-prime-the- | many-... | | [1] https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v | | [2] https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2023/01/pathfinder-sells- | eig... | wlesieutre wrote: | I should add, they're currently working on a new rules | edition (playtest titled "One D&D", as 5E was "D&D Next"). | Remains to be seen if this will be called "5.5E" or "6E" or | what, and we don't know what they'll do with its licensing. | Maybe it will be under a newer more restrictive license, | maybe it won't be. | | That's fine by me, they can do what they want with One D&D | licensing and people can make their own decisions on how they | react to it going forward. | | But trying to pull the rug out from the existing OGL for | current and previous editions was a real dick move. | djur wrote: | D&D 5th Edition (and some earlier editions) was released in a | way that allowed third parties to create their own compatible | content by referencing a document called the "SRD", licensed | under the so-called Open Game License. This document contained | the basic rules and content necessary to play D&D. If you | wanted to include a zombie in your published adventure you | could use the stat block from the SRD. The license also had | some rules to make sure you didn't pass off your content as | official, that kind of thing. There is a substantial market for | third-party D&D content, and there are numerous companies that | make it a core part of their business. | | The OGL was written before VTTs (virtual tabletops) were really | a thing, so it doesn't explicitly authorize them. Instead, VTT | developers arrange their own deal with Wizards directly. | | Wizards has also been in a conflict recently with a company | affiliated with one of the children of Gary Gygax, co-creator | of D&D. As I understand it, this company is promoting itself as | a throwback to the good old days when tabletop gaming wasn't | "woke", and are using OGL content in provocative ways as part | of this campaign. | | Finally, Wizards is preparing a new version of D&D, "D&D One". | All of this was the backdrop to a leaked plan to update the | OGL. The new license explicitly said it only applied to printed | content, not software like VTTs or games. It also had language | allowing them to revoke the license if applied to offensive | material. It included a royalty schedule for larger companies | to pay on sales of licensed content. Most significantly, the | plan was to declare the previous versions of the OGL no longer | "authorized", retroactively forcing new terms on existing | content published under OGL. | | This resulted in a massive backlash. Wizards had an initial | response where they tried to clarify the VTT issue and promised | to get rid of the royalties, but that didn't really help. They | announced a "playtest" where existing users could review the | new license and provide feedback. As this announcement says, | the response was resoundingly negative. So they are pretty much | going back on the entire plan. And since the OGL has now lost | the trust of the community, they're also licensing that content | under a Creative Commons attribution license they don't | control. | | Worth noting that this post doesn't mention D&D One at all. It | seems likely that they are still considering an updated license | for the new version of the game, which means there's likely to | be more conflict. But I don't think anyone could argue that | they don't have the right to release their new game under | whatever license they want -- the big deal here was the attempt | to retroactively relicense the existing content. | djur wrote: | Great news. I notice they don't say anything about the licensing | of "D&D One", and I'm guessing there's a good reason for that, | but there's a huge difference between using a different license | for your new product and trying to change the license of your | existing one. | ivanstojic wrote: | My TTRPG group has been playing together for several years - on | and off. We'd been mostly playing D&D 5e, even though we had | members clamoring for other systems. After the WotC fiasco | started blowing up, we finally bought a couple of Pathfinder 2e | books, ran a few trial characters and one-shots. We are now in | process of starting a new campaign entirely based on Pathfinder | that we expect could take a couple of months to play out. | | It really only took us one session to figure out the major | mechanical systems in the gameplay, and a few we are still | learning about. The major component remains the role playing | experience which is the same, no matter which dice you throw to | decide outcomes of situations. | | I think Hasbro will soon realize that while the social impact of | the name D&D is deep, the stickiness of the system is much lower | than they gambled on. It's unlikely that any of my member group | will soon buy anything new from them. | throw0101c wrote: | So no morality clause either? | thebooktocome wrote: | Morality clauses aren't compatible with any Creative Commons | license as far as I'm aware. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-01-27 23:00 UTC)