[HN Gopher] The other Phillips head screwdriver ___________________________________________________________________ The other Phillips head screwdriver Author : turtlegrids Score : 52 points Date : 2023-01-28 17:48 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (shoppress.dormanproducts.com) (TXT) w3m dump (shoppress.dormanproducts.com) | buildsjets wrote: | There are many other Phillips-like but not Phillips head designs | in common use, including: | | Pozidriv, used on many devices manufactured in the EU. | | Phillips ACR which is Phillips with extra ridges for more | torque/less stripping | | Frearson is used in fine woodworking screws | | MorTorque is used in some aerospace applications. Rolls-Royce jet | engines are covered with them. | | Offset Cruiciform, AKA Torq-set, aka Nazi Screws, were previously | common in aviation but are not typically used in new commercial | design. | | As usual wiki has a pretty decent article. | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Cruciform... | | They missed the offset cruciform tho. https://www.phillips- | screw.com/drive_systems/torq-set/ | Oxidation wrote: | They didn't miss it, it's near the end under tamper-resistant | for some reason. | blep_ wrote: | "Tamper-resistant" usually just means "normal people won't | have a screwdriver for it". | analog31 wrote: | Something I've found is that if I don't have precisely the right | bit on hand, a sharp new Phillips bit will usually work well | enough, and much better then a dull rounded one. | ranting-moth wrote: | I keep going for bits that kind of work and if I can't find | anything my lowest common denominator is the angle grinder. | Then I can replace the thing with a proper screw. | smcleod wrote: | Interesting that the USA doesn't seem to use Pozi. | | In Australia and NZ - | | Pozi are by far the most common in building/construction | (although everyone refers them as Phillips colloquially) with | square drive there after. Cheap/poorly made hardware from China | will at times ship with Phillips instead of Pozi (or JIS), you | can always tell because Philip screwdrivers are easy to strip in | comparison and require slightly more talk to tighten I think. | | With machined screws such as those used on electronics the most | common for commercial/industrial would probably be Torx, followed | by Pozi. In cheap consumer gear it's probably a mix of Phillips | and Pozi. | | Really no one should be using Phillips in this day and age, it's | horribly dated - easy to strip and low torque. | LarryMullins wrote: | I'm sure it's not a factor in their general popularity, but | from an aesthetic point of view I think Pozidriv is inferior to | Philips; pozidriv fastener heads look messy with those 45 | degree tickmarks. But both are inferior to Robertson/Square. | Those look the most neat and trim of any screw head. | gerikson wrote: | I got a set of JIS screwdrivers to help me disassemble Nikkor | lenses. | Ancapistani wrote: | I wish I'd read this before camming out the screws holding my | Nikkor 105mm trying to get into it to fix a sticky aperture :(. | | On the bright side, I didn't completely round them out - I knew | enough to stop when it came out the first time. I've been | meaning to send it off, but maybe I'll just invest in the | proper drivers instead. | gerikson wrote: | I let a repairman service a 105/2.5 that didn't focus to | infinity, as well as a 35/1.4 with slow aperture blades, but | sadly he suffered a stroke and had to stop working :( | thinkloop wrote: | I never realized how bad Phillips was until I started renovating | a home this year. They are truly the worst of all the options. | They need to be phased out completely. Square is better in every | way. A core problem with Phillips is not only that the cross is | simply not the best shape to hold torque, which it's not, but | that there is no consistency between the crosses themselves. With | square, you only have to worry about size. With Phillips, you | have to pay attention to the angles and character of the cross, | in addition to size. One Phillips might be deeper or skinnier | than another that looks the same. Matching the perfect driver to | a screw is difficult in general, and near impossible by eye. | nemo44x wrote: | Phillips is great when you're screwing in an area you can't | see. The bit slips in nicely and you don't have to think about | size. But yeah Robertsons are nice in many other instances. | vinay427 wrote: | > The bit slips in nicely | | As someone with very little recent experience with these | types, could you elaborate on what you mean by this, at least | compared to the Robertson screw? | samwillis wrote: | Seems to be down, mirror here: | https://web.archive.org/web/20220929080424/https://shoppress... | | In Europe (well worldwide) there is another "Philips" like screw | head called Pozidriv [0], it has a small engraved cross 45deg to | the main recess on the screw head. The drivers have flutes in the | head identifying them. They are _much_ better than Philips as | they are designed to not ride out until under a high enough | torque where the screw could be damaged. | | In the UK they are the dominant product in hardware stores. | | 0: https://shop4fasteners.co.uk/blog/pozidriv-vs-phillips/ | zabzonk wrote: | i don't know about "dominant" - most of the screws i come | across in the uk, for example in computers and other hardware, | are phillips. | | not saying pozidrive aren't better | Symbiote wrote: | I think it's screws at Ikea, B&Q, Wickes etc where you'll | find Pozidrive is dominant. | turtlegrids wrote: | >Seems to be down, mirror here: ... | | Thanks for posting the archive.org link. The site _was_ fast | when I posted this earlier today. I suppose they don't receive | much traffic, and host their site on a non-scaling potato | server. | afandian wrote: | Until I heard about Robertson in Canada I had assumed that | commodity items like screws and screwdrivers were truly | international. Is Pozidriv really not common in the US? | mauvehaus wrote: | Yeah, it's super uncommon. Torx is what you find on most | fasteners that aren't Phipps or slotted. I've found Pozi in | two applications in my house: | | 1) An IKEA bed requires it for some screws that self-tap into | sheet metal with a machine screw thread. Running them in with | Philips is hopeless. Does IKEA supply the required driver? Of | course not. | | 2) Blum cup hinges use Pozi for the adjustment screws. By | extension, if you want an actual Pozi screw driver, find a | local joint that supplies Blum to cabinet shops. | | There are at least a few other cruciform drives out there | that you'll rarely encounter: | | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives | RobotToaster wrote: | In my experience torx is a lot better than pozidrive. | frankus wrote: | IKEA uses them extensively in all of their hardware. If you | find yourself, say, assembling a whole kitchen worth of | IKEA cabinets it's worth picking up a few bits. | theamk wrote: | Pozidrives are pretty common in bigger US bit sets, even | cheap ones. | | Example: a $10 bit set: | https://www.harborfreight.com/security-bit-set-with- | case-100... has Pozi #0, #1, #2 (with spares) and #3 | jiveturkey wrote: | the bits and drivers are extremely common. pozi head | screws are almost nonexistent in US. unless you consider | IKEA sold in US to be a US product | avhon1 wrote: | Pozidriv is very uncommon in the US. | | Philips (00, 0, and 2) are by far the most common screw heads | here for most people. (Pretty much every household will have | these for changing batteries, assembling furniture, doing | minor repairs...) Slotted screw heads used to be ubiquitous, | and the screwdrivers still are, though mostly for use as pry | bars. You'll see some socket-head hex-drive stuff, in a mix | of metric and fractional inch drives (which can inform you on | how US-centric the design and manufacture of the product | was), and maybe some Torx (especially in electronics). I've | only seen Robertson in drywall and decking screws at the | hardware store, and I haven't yet seen them used in someone's | home. | Lammy wrote: | > Pozidriv is very uncommon in the US. | | IKEA use them. Lots of people get disposable Pozi drivers | from them and probably don't even realize they're | different. | fmajid wrote: | Generally in the US people who actually care about their | fasteners will use Torx. | silisili wrote: | Yep. In my house, every thing I work on or replace gets | replaced with Torx screws. Slotted have their place, I | have no idea how or why Phillips ever got popular. | sokoloff wrote: | Many electrical components have a screw that takes a | Phillips or Robertson. | mauvehaus wrote: | For those who don't know: the head of the screw will | literally accept a slotted, Phillips, or Robertson | driver. | | Milwaukee (popular among electricians) now makes a | screwdriver that's the union of those shapes that they | call an ECX screwdriver. | afandian wrote: | I'm not sure if you mean the union or intersection? | | I searched for ECX and it returns images of multi-bit | kits. Could you link a photo of what you're referring to? | sokoloff wrote: | Several of the combo bit types are covered here: | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4WsTfJ-YwbM (start around | 2m59s, but there's a lot of good content there) | cyral wrote: | Search "ECX screw" on Google images, it has some pictures | of the bits and the screws | afandian wrote: | Thanks! That driver bit is crazy. | | https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-ecx-screwdriver-bits/ | function_seven wrote: | I bought a Klein version of that screwdriver and it's a | joy to use when wiring up receptacles. | myself248 wrote: | I rarely encounter it, but I have a PZ1 driver in my kit at | all times because NorComp D-sub hoods use it for the cable | clamp bar screws. | | Other than that I can't say I've found PZ in recent memory. | jccooper wrote: | I get the bits a lot in multi-bit sets, but the fasteners | themselves are very rare. | chromatin wrote: | Pozidrive super uncommon in the US. | | Besides the already-mentioned Ikea, the other most common | application in the US (best guess) is Ski Bindings, probably | because most bindings in the US come from European Brands. | hprotagonist wrote: | I owned a honda motorcycle from the mid-70s for a while. I have a | hammer actuated JIS impact driver, as a result: the crank-case | was held on by 8 of the bloody things. | blamazon wrote: | If you ever need to rebuild a Japanese carburetor, buy some nice | JIS screwdrivers. Thank me later! | Lammy wrote: | Also game consoles, laptops, arcade machines, ... | BenjiWiebe wrote: | I work on small engines/powersport engines. Most of the | carburetors are Japanese. I love my Vessel JIS screwdriver. | mberning wrote: | Vessel has a cool version that you can strike with a hammer | to loosen tough screws. I think it's called "impacta". | emsixteen wrote: | Been looking for JIS screwdrivers which don't cost a fortune | here in Europe, not had much luck. Don't quite need it before a | few months from now but it's still frustrating! | RobotToaster wrote: | The Japanese company "Vessel" make JIS drivers that are | generally quite well regarded and not too expensive. | amelius wrote: | What I like about the pozidrive is that the tip of the | screwdriver is not pointy, so it will better fit inside the screw | head. | gumby wrote: | Does DIN 5260 mean Jeep will need to change those taillights? | jaclaz wrote: | AFAIK JIS is now becoming obsolete, we have DIN 5260/ISO 8764-1 : | | https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-... | exmadscientist wrote: | And there is even a third! | | The article talks about "normal" versus JIS Phillips drives. But | "normal" actually comes in two different flavors: US (ANSI) and | German (DIN/later ISO). ISO Phillips drivers work perfectly on | ISO Phillips heads and quite well on JIS or ANSI Phillips heads. | ANSI Phillips drivers work perfectly on ANSI Phillips heads and | noticeably worse on JIS or ISO Phillips heads. | | You probably have not experienced this if your Phillips | screwdrivers were not made in USA, as virtually every | manufacturer outside the US used or uses the JIS, DIN, or ISO | profile for their tools, and those work tolerably on all Phillips | type screws. (Of course JIS is palpably best on JIS, which is the | subject of the article.) But if you have older or newer made in | USA tools (especially Pratt-Read, who recently closed down) or | fasteners (which probably had to come from some industrial type | place), you may have noticed that Phillips is even more crap than | expected. Or you might have noticed that the "foreigners" are | better at tools if you compared against a good German or Japanese | screwdriver. | | Not really! It's just that there are _three kinds of Phillips | profile_. It 's _awful_. Death to Phillips, death to Pozidriv | (too easy to confuse and damage here in the US), death to | anything that looks like Phillips. Long live Robertson, Hex, | Torx, and anything with ball end drivers available! | GrumpyNl wrote: | For me the Robertson are the best (square heads). All over Canada | and very common there, never found them in Europe. | pantalaimon wrote: | Hex keys are more common here in Europe I would say. | barbazoo wrote: | This is where North America got it right 100%. Coming from | Europe I was used to Phillips and flathead but my eyes were | opened here in Canada when all screws were basically either the | #6 or (mostly) the #8 Robertson. Why on earth do I have | literally 20 different Phillips and maybe 10 different flathead | bits? And that's finding the right one that doesn't slip and | destroy the screw is so much work. Robertson ftw. | [deleted] ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-01-28 23:00 UTC)