[HN Gopher] Hermes: An open-source document management system
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       Hermes: An open-source document management system
        
       Author : shcheklein
       Score  : 164 points
       Date   : 2023-01-31 19:06 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.hashicorp.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.hashicorp.com)
        
       | tnolet wrote:
       | Sounds like Mitchel got distracted. I get it, internal company
       | wiki entropy is a hard problem.
        
         | eatonphil wrote:
         | > I don't work directly on most of those projects anymore. I
         | was CEO for ~4 years, CTO for ~5 years, and then transitioned
         | to being an individual contributor.
         | 
         | I think it's his job now to get distracted. :) Though I see no
         | reason from this post to think Hermes is one of Mitchell's
         | projects.
         | 
         | https://mitchellh.com/
        
       | frostysocks wrote:
       | The single, killer feature I'm looking for in a document
       | management system (besides collaborative environment that we're
       | used to from gdocs) is a way to stamp versions and have those be
       | reviewed independently, with git like diffs across them.
       | 
       | Think gerrit for docs.
        
         | revskill wrote:
         | Then a webui over git itself is better solution ?
        
         | schmichael wrote:
         | Google Docs actually has this and hides it behind terrible
         | UI/UX. You can "Name this version" of a doc, and there's a
         | separate page to view versions (from which you can name
         | versions as well).
         | 
         | The diffing isn't there, or at least not to the degree that
         | code review tools offer.
         | 
         | I'm not sure the feature has evolved in years either.
         | Definitely feels like one of those things a Google engineer
         | threw into production one day, and it's never been considered
         | again.
        
         | locustmostest wrote:
         | Do you mean document control, or diff on text contents?
         | 
         | For plain text, diff is do-able, but I don't know if comparing
         | two PDFs can involve a detailed "diff" vs. a checksum, since
         | the text could be the same but there's a change in layout, an
         | image, etc.
        
           | jve wrote:
           | Word/docx with SharePoint/OneDrive has pretty nice comparison
           | feature https://www.officetooltips.com/word_365/tips/compare_
           | two_doc...
        
       | znpy wrote:
       | Os it just me or there's another document management system and
       | authoring suite called Hermes?
       | 
       | Maybe by Unisys? I've worked in the publishing industry and that
       | name sounds familiar...
        
       | revskill wrote:
       | The hardest part is configuration among the mess of Google
       | console UI. Ah wait, i need to earn a real certification in order
       | to master the web ui !
        
       | krater23 wrote:
       | Maybee not the best name. Everyone here in Germany knows that
       | Hermes is the name of the parcel shipping service thats notorious
       | lose your goods. ;)
        
         | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
         | That's only because the scrooges don't have a stack of 5EUR
         | bills at hand.
         | 
         | Sacrificing one such bill with every delivery magically makes
         | Hermes minions much more reliable.
         | 
         | Same applies to all the others.
        
         | pledg wrote:
         | In the UK their reputation got so bad they renamed the company.
        
         | solidr53 wrote:
         | For me it's a JS engine for React Natve -
         | https://hermesengine.dev/
        
       | corytheboyd wrote:
       | I don't know what it is about the name Hermes for software folk,
       | it's apparently irresistible. I've heard the name used by three
       | different companies for internal projects just in my own circle
       | in the last year. This concludes my useless comment.
       | 
       | This is just a joke, that you learn what Hermes means at one
       | company and have to unlearn that when the next Hermes enters your
       | life :p
        
         | vajrabum wrote:
         | Hermes was among other things, the messenger of the gods in the
         | Greek pantheon. I'd guess they were thinking of that as the
         | context for the name. Of course, he also the psychopomp, the
         | god who guided dead souls to the underworld. That might also be
         | appropriate for documents many of which are dead from day 1.
        
         | odiroot wrote:
         | Having lived in Germany, and now in the UK, this name gives me
         | shivers. Nothing is scarier than getting an email from Hermes:
         | we got your package!
        
         | kderbyma wrote:
         | Symbols and names have meanings which resonate with people when
         | they value their origins.
        
         | cstuder wrote:
         | It's also the name of the official project management
         | procedures of the Swiss Government. Follow it to the letter and
         | nobody can blame you for sinking a project.
        
         | ilc wrote:
         | It is a name connected with speed, and few negative
         | connotations.
         | 
         | I used it for a trending system I worked on long ago.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Take any random Greek deity and search GitHub for it, you'll
         | find tons of projects for each one, guaranteed. It's just a
         | common source of naming for developers (how that relates to
         | god-complex being common with developers, is left as an
         | exercise to the reader).
        
         | mattbee wrote:
         | To me it's the University of Cambridge's email server (RIP
         | 1993-2021). I see a few alums keep use their hermes ID as they
         | a username outside of Cambridge (like mjg59).
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | meitros wrote:
       | This reminds me a lot of the NY Times' Library project:
       | https://github.com/nytimes/library. You use an editing
       | environment that people are familiar with (google docs), and you
       | build organizational and workflow stuff around it. Library
       | rendered the document content itself with a link to edit
       | (favoring the reader use case), whereas Hermes embeds the google
       | docs UI.
       | 
       | The lack of code blocks in google docs makes it tough for a
       | centralized document repository for an engineering org. For
       | companies using Quip it could work really well...except that I
       | don't think quip lets you embed the editor like that.
       | 
       | Everything that's been built so far for Hermes looks cool. My
       | personal opinion is that it'll need more UX iteration for it to
       | really take off.
        
         | chedabob wrote:
         | GDocs is rolling out code blocks now, albeit with a limited
         | number of supported languages
         | 
         | https://workspaceupdates.googleblog.com/2022/12/format-displ...
        
       | claytonjy wrote:
       | Is it possible to write markdown in Google docs? This is what
       | often pushed me back to Confluence for various docs, the markdown
       | plugin works as expected, so I can write naturally or copy-paste
       | from obsidian.
       | 
       | Markdown is so ubiquitous as a dev that I strongly resist writing
       | anything else these days.
        
         | sphars wrote:
         | Yes, Google added limited support for Markdown last year,
         | though I'm not sure if it's rolled out to all accounts yet.
         | 
         | Support documentation:
         | https://support.google.com/docs/answer/12014036?hl=en
         | 
         | Wired article going in a little more depth:
         | https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-use-markdown-google-docs/
        
         | jmacd wrote:
         | Google Docs supports Markdown just enough to frustrate the life
         | out of you.
        
           | evancordell wrote:
           | I saw your comment, enabled Markdown in a Google Doc, tried
           | to write a code block, became immediately frustrated.
           | 
           | Looks like it only supports bold/italic, links, and headers.
        
       | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
       | > Hermes uses Golang for the backend and Ember.js for the front
       | end. It uses a PostgreSQL database for storage and Algolia to
       | power its search capabilities. It also leverages several Google
       | Workspace services for creating and modifying documents, sending
       | email, etc.
       | 
       | Great. 50 million incompatible parts combined with duct tape that
       | is no better than Jira workflows with Google Docs, and less
       | flexible. I can't wait to staff a team to maintain this garbage
       | pile.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
         | people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | What's wrong with that stack and how are they incompatible?
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | > Hermes: An open-source document management system
         | 
         | > leverages several Google Workspace services for creating and
         | modifying documents
         | 
         | Sooo, it's a UI over Google Workspace? Sounds a lot less
         | interesting than I was lead to believe.
        
       | croo wrote:
       | I read through the project as I worked with several document
       | storage solution before and still lookin for an ideal solution.
       | Filenet is horribly overpriced from IBM, Alfresco looks nice but
       | have serious performance issues (my experience is from 2020),
       | SharePoint is only nice if everything is Microsoft... Apache Oak
       | is an abandoned project with a lot of things that seems to be in
       | it but didnt get finished (e.g. CMIS protocol or usable
       | documentation).
       | 
       | This Hermes seems nice and being open source is a great thing but
       | it's still in alpha, do not support custom file types and very
       | Google oriented.
       | 
       | If anyone has a good mature alternative I'm all ears.
        
         | wazoox wrote:
         | ResourceSpace is fine, opensource and can be self-hosted.
         | 
         | https://www.resourcespace.com/
        
         | formkiqmike wrote:
         | If you're not adverse to cloud file storage, FormKiQ Core (I'm
         | a co-founder) is an open source document management system that
         | runs on AWS and is designed to allow custom integrations.
         | 
         | https://github.com/formkiq/formkiq-core
        
         | bungle wrote:
         | Have you checked M-Files? (https://www.m-files.com/). Not OSS,
         | though.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | MollyRealized wrote:
         | https://www.netdocuments.com ?
        
         | ab_testing wrote:
         | Document cloud is open source and you can host it yourself.
        
         | denysvitali wrote:
         | Not mature, but if you fancy contributing I've started DMS.rs a
         | couple of years ago: https://github.com/DMSrs/dmsrs
         | 
         | It's written in Rust but I never managed to continue the
         | project sadly :(
        
           | deepsun wrote:
           | I can't help but notice the fact that language choice is put
           | first. For document-organizer almost any language would work
           | fine, there's no need for super-optimized memory management.
           | Much more important would be language+ecosystem security and
           | speed of safe development, IMHO.
        
           | jll29 wrote:
           | Would you be interested to re-activate this project? Are you
           | available for (open source) contract work to that effect?
        
         | macrolime wrote:
         | Nextcloud is mature and I think pretty decent.
        
         | _boffin_ wrote:
         | Check out https://www.nuxeo.com I'm running their open source
         | solution using docker on my nas. I'm truthfully not using it
         | too much, but it's an option
        
         | mnkypete wrote:
         | To be honest, I just went for a small business subscription of
         | Office 365 for personal use, which also gives you mail with a
         | custom domain. SharePoint is decent enough when accessed from
         | the mobile OneDrive App and offers out of the box indexing +
         | OCR of images and pdfs. Also their document scanner is good
         | enough to quickly get rid of all paper coming in...
        
         | satya71 wrote:
         | There's also Mayan EDMS [1]. I have no experience with it, but
         | looks sensible from the outside.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.mayan-edms.com/
        
           | EvanAnderson wrote:
           | I stood up a demo of Mayan a year ago and played around with
           | it. It was very nice. The Customer ended up going with a
           | commercial offering so I didn't spend any more time with it.
           | For a small environment where someone could fill the Mayan
           | subject matter expert role I think it would work well.
        
       | el_don_almighty wrote:
       | Hermes: Futurama?
        
       | tomaszsobota wrote:
       | I think this tool would be perfect if it allowed managing a self-
       | hosted markdown filebase. Hopefully one day :fingerscrossed:
        
         | pedrocr wrote:
         | That seems something in the ballpark of my favorite wiki
         | software:
         | 
         | https://github.com/gollum/gollum
         | 
         | Edit and view pages as a normal markdown wiki. But the backend
         | is just a git repository of markdown files so you can also just
         | use your text editor and git pull/push. Usable by any novice
         | but with the ideal power user interface.
        
       | kkoncevicius wrote:
       | Maybe a slow day for me, but from the homepage and video it isn't
       | clear - does it do anything that cannot be achieved with plain
       | Google Docs?
        
         | tremon wrote:
         | Run it on your own servers?
        
         | mrzool wrote:
         | I'm also baffled by that after skimming the page and watching
         | the demo video... seems like a Google Docs wrapper of some
         | sort.
        
         | imran-iq wrote:
         | It seems like it manages some metadata around google docs, but
         | google docs is doing all the heavy lifting
         | (creating/editing/sharing documents). Which begs the question,
         | why?
         | 
         | By titling itself as a document management system I would
         | assume it would be something like paperless-ngx[0] or mayan
         | edms[1]. The latter of which has a built in workflow system[2].
         | 
         | But by being tied to google docs you can't really self host the
         | important parts
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | 0: https://github.com/paperless-ngx/paperless-ngx
         | 
         | 1: https://gitlab.com/mayan-edms/mayan-edms
         | 
         | 2: https://docs.mayan-edms.com/chapters/workflows.html
        
           | PenguinCoder wrote:
           | Utterly misleading to call this self hosted document
           | management then, and defeats the purpose. Here's a front end
           | to Google docs you can host, but you still need access to the
           | internet, Google docs, and Google sees all your docs anyways.
           | 
           | No thanks.
        
             | faitswulff wrote:
             | Full text search also provided by Algolia, so you'll likely
             | need an Algolia API key and account as well.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | phphphphp wrote:
         | The hardest part of documents within a business is not
         | producing documents but rather creating a useful library.
         | Google Docs is a place where great documents go to die.
         | 
         | Notion's success (for example) is more about it making it
         | possible to create a useable library of documents than it is
         | about being an editor with neat widgets.
         | 
         | I don't know if Hermes is going to be particularly successful
         | given it's competing with things like Notion, but in principle,
         | a library for Google Docs is a great and valuable project for
         | teams using Google Docs.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-31 23:00 UTC)