[HN Gopher] New Universal Summarizer by Kagi
___________________________________________________________________
New Universal Summarizer by Kagi
Author : simonebrunozzi
Score : 150 points
Date : 2023-02-03 19:13 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (labs.kagi.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (labs.kagi.com)
| widowlark wrote:
| This is incredibly well done. Congrats to the team at Kagi, I was
| genuinely blown away by the speed and accuracy of the results.
| amelius wrote:
| Does it rely on OpenAI under the hood?
| GaggiX wrote:
| I am truly amazed at how fast and good it is at summarizing
| videos, it is (or will be) definitely an amazing tool for the
| Kagi search engine. I guess they have trained/finetuned a
| specific model to summarize video transcripts, since the content
| is delivered so differently.
| imbnwa wrote:
| Anybody else's first instinct was to get the summary of the
| Christian Bible? Isn't able to complete the task in case you're
| interested with the source[0] I submitted.
|
| [0]http://triggs.djvu.org/djvu-
| editions.com/BIBLES/DRV/Download...
| buserror wrote:
| Oh, reminds me I had an email address @kagi.com, a long, long
| time ago :-)
| 13415 wrote:
| I was wondering whether this is still the same company. I
| remember getting cheques from Kagi and German bank employees
| eying them suspiciously.
| buserror wrote:
| I know, for quite a while I got quite a bit of income from
| them, good old day of Mac Sharewares :-)
| thewebcount wrote:
| I asked them one time and they said they have no relation to
| Kee (who ran the shareware processing site), and just bought
| the domain when it was available. No connection to the old
| site. (I also used to get the occasional check from the old
| Kagi!)
| bilater wrote:
| This is really cool. Do you have an API? :)
| freediver wrote:
| We do, and we thought about opening this as a part of other
| APIs we already have.
|
| How would you price this?
| bilater wrote:
| Probably by usage similar to OpenAI since I assume your costs
| are correlated (compute etc).
|
| You could do a hobby plan which is free up to a certain no.
| of requests/tokens per day or hour so developers can start
| building without any friction (I think this is important and
| sort of expected as most beloved dev tools do it). You can
| minimize your costs by offering this on shared resources so
| inference time is a little slow and API can go down at times
| when there is high usage but its free so users wont mind.
|
| And then have pro plans for higher usage / 99.9999 SLA / fast
| inference etc (maybe a min subscription with a pay if you go
| over per 100k tokens option...similar to Vercel with
| bandwidth and serverless functions).
| freediver wrote:
| Cool, pricing per tokens processed makes sense, thanks for
| brainstorming this.
| minxomat wrote:
| Would love to use an API, per token pricing is a good
| approach (with use limits like OpenAI). If you need
| testers, I have some use case (long form non-fiction
| content). LMK at ml[at]summarity[dot]com
| Terretta wrote:
| I have a few thousand things to summarize, and am a paying
| subscriber. What happens to my account if I automate your
| page?
|
| I'm happy to pay. I think it's too much but I'd probably
| unhappily pay $0.05 per summary when they're this good. I'd
| rather pay $0.005 or less, then I'd plug it into KB tools
| like Obsidian as well as our bookmarking / link logging
| workflow firm-wide.
|
| Which reminds me, I want to be able to "gift" Kagi search to
| all employees. I actively don't want them to have to use
| Google. Is there a way for an automatic company @domain x per
| seat billing, or should I use gifting?
|
| Finally, what would it take for kagi.com to be part of the
| Apple One / iCloud+ offering? That needs to happen.
| billbrown wrote:
| This? https://blog.kagi.com/kagi-team-plan
| ryanar wrote:
| I grabbed a random article in my to read list and it didn't help
| me understand the article.
|
| https://tasshin.com/blog/strategy-101/
|
| Lots of words I was unfamiliar with because they were domain
| specific terms and they were not defined
| etra0 wrote:
| I just tried it with a blogpost of my own that's written in a
| _somewhat_ localized Spanish and it summarized it pretty well in
| English, which is quite surprising. Good job team kagi!
| xamdam wrote:
| Impressed with their long document summarization, any ideas how
| they do this? Seems beyond normal GPT limitations; either they
| have a more powerful model (doubt it) or hacked around the
| limitations?
|
| e.g. good summary for a very long text
| https://labs.kagi.com/ai/sum?url=http://localroger.com/prime...
| freediver wrote:
| Thanks for noticing! (dev here)
|
| We have an in-house model we've been developing since 2019,
| just for summarization of long documents in real time. We'll
| try to find some time to blog about the high level design.
| xamdam wrote:
| I'd pay for an API to this
| minxomat wrote:
| I second this, API please.
| btown wrote:
| Third this! Firms serving the financial world, tracking
| PR statements, etc. would likely pay high rates for this.
| stavros wrote:
| Is there an API for this? I'd love to make an Alexa skill
| that reads out summarized Wikipedia articles for me.
| bradneuberg wrote:
| Looking forward to a technical writeup on what you all have
| done, looks impressive!
| mdp2021 wrote:
| > _an in-house model we 've been developing since 2019_
|
| We will be very interested in how you tackled the problem of
| "understanding" the input text - to differentiate it from
| current "fakeries of actual speakers".
|
| I.e. how you implemented the "intelligent" parts - or, which
| simulation of actual intelligent processing (if any) it
| contains.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| Well.
|
| > _Case is in a bar called the Chatsubo, a place for professional
| expatriates. He is talking to the bartender, Ratz, who has a
| prosthetic arm. Ratz and Case joke around and then a prostitute
| who was sitting next to Case leaves. Suddenly, a drunken
| Australian starts talking about how the Chinese invented nerve-
| splicing. This causes Case to become bitter and he expresses his
| feelings to his glass. This passage paints a vivid picture of the
| atmosphere in the bar and the characters that inhabit it. The
| interesting detail is that Ratz has a prosthetic arm, which is a
| unique detail that adds to the atmosphere of the bar_
|
| The results are interesting. The in-production use-case, where
| the tech will be most reliable, not evident.
|
| Edit:
|
| It seems (also seeing the "Key moments" section) that elemental
| attempts to understand the details (and structure) of the text
| should output reliability values, and employ them with importance
| towards the final output.
|
| Edit2:
|
| It seems from further tests that the "understanding" may be very
| limited, and that the "trick" is more in terms of "trying to
| identify salient parts and present them reformulated - without
| attempting to understand them".
|
| Edit3:
|
| It seems that the attempt of identification of salient points is
| confirmed as a main mechanism - but, in absence of understanding,
| the re-formulation just degrades information. For example: the
| original being, << _Bronze is the first metal that gets its own
| age, which began around 3300 BCE in Mesopotamia. Other metals
| were certainly in use before it -- especially copper -- but the
| addition of a small amount of tin to existing copper technology
| changed everything. Bronze was a step up in hardness, durability,
| and resistance to corrosion [...]_ >>, the summary << _Bronze is
| the first metal to have its own age, beginning around 3300 BCE in
| Mesopotamia. It was a step up in hardness, durability, and
| resistance to corrosion_ >> betrays faults in changing the
| initial 'gets' to 'have', and in missing that those qualities of
| bronze are there in comparison to copper.
|
| --
|
| ...I see we have a sniper here, as so common: well, do not forget
| to make your criticism explicit (assuming it will just take its
| time to elaborate). Edit: still need more time?
| smusamashah wrote:
| It's very nice. Apparantly it doesn't follow pages of an HN
| thread. It summarized this
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34579175 to mostly about
| staying warm. See
| https://labs.kagi.com/ai/sum?url=https://news.ycombinator.co...
|
| This is how it summarized Yishan's thread on content moderation
| https://labs.kagi.com/ai/sum?url=https://twitter.com/yishan/...
| It obviously got confused when he side stepped into his CO2
| mantra middle of the thread.
|
| From these two links, it feels like this engine mostly focuses on
| the beginnings of the URL, things that come later on a page are
| not given the same priority when summarizing.
| impalallama wrote:
| > The Turner Diaries is a novel by Andrew Mac Donald (William
| Pierce) that follows the story of a man named Turner, a member of
| a revolutionary organization that is fighting against the
| oppressive System. Turner and his comrades use acts of terror,
| sabotage, and violence to fight against the System, and they
| eventually succeed in overthrowing it. The novel follows Turner's
| journey as he and his comrades struggle to survive and fight
| against the System, and it also explores the themes of racism,
| civil rights, and the power of the government. The novel
| ultimately conveys the message that violence and terror can be
| used to fight against oppressive systems, but that it should be
| done with caution and with a clear understanding of the
| consequences.
|
| Does an interesting and good job are presenting the problem with
| summarization. You read this and you might think The Turner
| Diaries where a Star Wars adventure story about fighting an evil
| empire.
| [deleted]
| srhtftw wrote:
| Here is the summary it gives for Walden: Conclusion
| https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Walden_(1893)_Thoreau/Chapter...
|
| _In Walden, Thoreau encourages readers to explore their own
| inner depths and to strive for truth and simplicity. He argues
| that material wealth is not as important as the wealth of the
| mind, and that true happiness comes from within. He also
| encourages readers to be independent and to take risks, and to
| not be afraid to explore the unknown. He compares the courage of
| a soldier to that of a footpad, and suggests that it is nobler to
| explore one 's own inner world than to chase after material
| possessions. He also suggests that it is better to be content
| with what one has than to strive for superfluous wealth. He
| concludes by encouraging readers to strive for truth and to not
| be afraid to explore the unknown._
|
| I think shows the limits of these kinds of statistical word
| approaches. They aren't necessary "wrong" but they fail to give
| any sense of the spirit of optimism in the original. I would have
| been far more impressed if it just quoted the ending:
|
| _The life in us is like the water in the river. It may rise this
| year higher than man has ever known it, and flood the parched
| uplands; even this may be the eventful year, which will drown out
| all our muskrats. It was not always dry land where we dwell. I
| see far inland the banks which the stream anciently washed,
| before science began to record its freshets. Every one has heard
| the story which has gone the rounds of New England, of a strong
| and beautiful bug which came out of the dry leaf of an old table
| of apple-tree wood, which had stood in a farmer 's kitchen for
| sixty years, first in Connecticut, and afterward in Massachusetts
| -- from an egg deposited in the living tree many years earlier
| still, as appeared by counting the annual layers beyond it; which
| was heard gnawing out for several weeks, hatched perchance by the
| heat of an urn. Who does not feel his faith in a resurrection and
| immortality strengthened by hearing of this? Who knows what
| beautiful and winged life, whose egg has been buried for ages
| under many concentric layers of woodenness in the dead dry life
| of society, deposited at first in the alburnum of the green and
| living tree, which has been gradually converted into the
| semblance of its well-seasoned tomb -- heard perchance gnawing
| out now for years by the astonished family of man, as they sat
| round the festive board -- may unexpectedly come forth from
| amidst society's most trivial and handselled furniture, to enjoy
| its perfect summer life at last!_
|
| _I do not say that John or Jonathan will realize all this; but
| such is the character of that morrow which mere lapse of time can
| never make to dawn. The light which puts out our eyes is darkness
| to us. Only that day dawns to which we are awake. There is more
| day to dawn. The sun is but a morning star._
| yunwal wrote:
| This is quite a bit better than all of the other attempts at
| building AI summarizers I've seen. One thing that's really nice
| about it is that it seems to pick out surprising or unique
| information, rather than just trying to provide the most general
| abstraction or summary of the article. My team has a journal club
| where we go through ML papers, and I feel like this will be a
| good tool to familiarize myself with academic papers before going
| into the details.
| nvr219 wrote:
| I had it summarize a recipe for me. It did a good job, but
| definitely editorialized. The URL I sent included just the recipe
| for split pea soup, but the summary added that "Split pea soup is
| a hearty and comforting dish that is easy to make" (which is
| true, but wasn't in the original) and said that the soup "is sure
| to be a hit with the whole family" (again, true, but wasn't in
| the original). So I feel like "summary" isn't the right word
| exactly. Still amazing. I tested it with a bunch of different
| blog posts that I was very familiar with and the summary always
| turned out accurate.
| dakiol wrote:
| Impressive.
|
| URL: https://qntm.org/responsibility
|
| Summary:
|
| > This story follows Tim and Diane, two scientists who have
| successfully built a quantum computer. They use it to simulate a
| universe, and eventually discover that they are in fact living in
| a simulation themselves. They realize that any changes they make
| to the simulation will be reflected in their own universe, and
| must be careful not to do anything that could be harmful. They
| also discover that the simulation is part of an infinite tower of
| quantum computers, with their own universe being near the bottom.
| This realization is both exciting and daunting, as they now have
| the power to play God, but must be careful not to do anything
| that could have disastrous consequences.
|
| Could it be using ChatGPT behind the curtains?
| burkaman wrote:
| This is much better than I expected, it's given a good answer for
| everything I've tried so far.
|
| https://labs.kagi.com/ai/sum?url=https://timecube.2enp.com
|
| > Dr. Gene Ray is a scientist and philosopher who has discovered
| the Time Cube, a mathematical proof that there are four
| simultaneous 24 hour days in a single rotation of the Earth. He
| believes that the academic and religious teaching of singularity
| is boring and evil, and that it is destroying the analytical
| brain of humanity. He has offered a $10,000 reward to Wikipedia
| to disprove his math, and has been interviewed on Air America
| Radio. He believes that the nuclear waste burial in Nevada is an
| example of evil stewardship, and that the only way to save
| humanity is to acknowledge the Cubic Creation Principle of
| opposites. He believes that educators are lying bastards who
| suppress Cubic Creation debate, and that students should demand
| free speech to discuss it. He believes that belief in a nonvalue
| god equates to nonacceptance of Cubic knowledge, and that word
| has no inherent value.
| widowlark wrote:
| wow, it made a succint and understandable summary of one of the
| most incomprehensible websites ever in like, seconds
| bradneuberg wrote:
| I threw a few different things at it and it did pretty well IMHO:
| https://twitter.com/bradneuberg/status/1621619127545905152?s...
| sorry_i_lisp wrote:
| I put in a (mostly) transcript of the Randy Pausch lecture on
| Time Management [1] and the summarizer gave me:
|
| _Time management is an important skill to have in order to lead
| a happier and more productive life. Julie A. Zelenski, a
| professor at UVA, gave a talk on time management, drawing from
| two books and her own experiences. She recommends having a filing
| system, using speaker phones, and standing during phone calls to
| save time. She also suggests doing the ugliest task first, having
| a timer on the phone, and leaving thank-you notes on the desk.
| Zelenski also recommends scheduling meetings, phone calls, and
| mundane tasks, and treating people with respect and dignity. An
| interesting point she made was to use a power drill to carve
| pumpkins instead of a knife!_
|
| Julie Zelenski, ha. AI be dreamin'.
|
| I liked the examples and you're always going to have some weird
| loss of content when you summarize but the AI taking the joke by
| Randy and then imagining a surname is still amusing.
|
| [1] https://jamesclear.com/great-speeches/time-management-by-
| ran...
| [deleted]
| sorokod wrote:
| First chapter of Catch 22 - comically low quality
|
| URL: https://thefreeonlinenovel.com/con/catch-22_chapter-1---
| the-...
|
| Summary
|
| Yossarian is in the hospital with a pain in his liver that falls
| just short of being jaundice. He is comfortable in the hospital
| and censors letters to pass the time. One day, the chaplain
| arrives and Yossarian is surprised to find that they have a
| mutual friend. The chaplain is shy and apologetic, but Yossarian
| is friendly and warm. He warns the chaplain of the craziness of
| the other wards, and the chaplain promises to be careful. In the
| ward, there is a soldier in white with two useless legs and two
| useless arms, and a colonel with a vortex of specialists trying
| to determine what is wrong with him. The woman with curly ash-
| blond hair visits him every day. Eventually, the patients start
| to leave the hospital, and Yossarian tells the doctors that his
| pain has gone away.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| Quite useful IMHO to summarize some Hacker News posts, here's an
| example [0].
|
| Funny story: I tried to build something like this years ago,
| called MNMN, guessing that AI would have eventually be able to do
| the summarizes well enough. [1]
|
| The name was a play on the song "Manamana".
|
| [0]:
| https://labs.kagi.com/ai/sum?url=https://plei.one/blog/flutt...
|
| [1]: https://github.com/simonebrunozzi/MNMN
| Gys wrote:
| The song being https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_tupPBtWQ ?
|
| It surely reminded me of that one!
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| Yes! Even better, this [0]. Elio is a famous Italian singer.
|
| [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dN0EYphtA0
| causality0 wrote:
| I fed it The Last Question. While the resulting summary is
| impressive, I suspect there may be some cheating/plagiarism going
| on because it includes commentary with no origin in the text.
|
| _The Last Question is a science fiction short story by Isaac
| Asimov about two attendants of Multivac, a giant computer, who
| make a bet over highballs. The question they ask is whether
| mankind will ever be able to restore the sun to its full
| youthfulness even after it had died of old age. The story follows
| the question through the centuries as mankind develops
| interstellar travel and builds a better and more intricate
| computer, the Universal AC. In the end, the Universal AC is
| unable to answer the question due to insufficient data, but it is
| able to demonstrate the answer, restoring the Universe from
| chaos. This story is a fascinating exploration of the power of
| technology and the limits of human knowledge._
| anyfoo wrote:
| It's interesting. Feels like an answer that someone who didn't
| know about, or not understand, the concepts of the story
| (mostly entropy) would give.
| version_five wrote:
| I pay for Kagi search. This doesn't interest me in the least.
| They have been breaking down the costs of running their business
| and justifying their prices, which I'm cool with. If it turns out
| I'm paying to subsidize this kind of thing, it's not going to
| work for me anymore.
|
| (I don't mean to say it's bad or anything, just I don't care
| about it. It's an interesting downside of a paid business model.
| Google can do whatever because it's all "free" but presumably
| paying customers care more about not paying for a bunch of stuff
| they don't want)
| [deleted]
| Xeophon wrote:
| Im on the opposite site: Currently, I do not use Kagi. Such
| features would convince me to switch (and therefore, pay).
| GaggiX wrote:
| I do not pay for the Kagi search engine, but it is quite
| obvious to me that this powerful summarizer will greatly help
| the search engine, which will soon be able to easily index
| videos, pdfs, books, etc. and extract the most relevant content
| from it with ease.
| mberning wrote:
| I don't know why. Most businesses work on projects that are not
| strictly related to the core product. Imagine how much cheaper
| your iPhone would be if you weren't subsidizing apple car,
| augmented reality research, etc.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| Figuring out what a document is about is one of the most
| central problems in building a search engine. Being able to
| regurgitate it in a way that makes sense to humans is just a
| nice benefit.
| dimgl wrote:
| Would you recommend Kagi search to look up software dev?
| sorry_i_lisp wrote:
| I also pay for Kagi search and have a usage value of ~55% from
| what I pay and I'm fine with experiments.
| billbrown wrote:
| Oof, that inspired me to check and mine's at 17%. I'm fine
| with experiments, too. (It reminds me of the old Google Labs
| part of search.)
| version_five wrote:
| Right, maybe I should have framed my comment a bit
| differently: this is not core functionality I would pay for.
|
| Experiments are cool and it would be dumb to make suggestions
| about how they do R&D. I was more reacting to the thought
| that this would become part of the product offering.
| mkaic wrote:
| This is nothing short of remarkable! The video summary in
| particular feels like magic. I am exceptionally eager to learn
| more about their datasets, model architecture, and training
| process.
| breck wrote:
| This is really good. Well done!
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(page generated 2023-02-03 23:00 UTC)