[HN Gopher] Van Life in Japan
___________________________________________________________________
Van Life in Japan
Author : ym705
Score : 259 points
Date : 2023-02-07 11:15 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (kumazen.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (kumazen.com)
| entaloneralie wrote:
| We've lived in a sailboat in Japan for a while and wrote a little
| provisioning guide that might also be of interest for van folks
| in Japan.
|
| http://100r.co/site/provisioning_in_japan.html
| de_nied wrote:
| I remember I stumbled onto your website through people's
| neocities links, and just spent hours reading about sailing,
| UXN, Japan, and your travels in general. Fantastic and high-
| quality material. I wish there were more collectives and groups
| like this that keep the maker/hacker culture alive.
| yreg wrote:
| Woo, you have redesigned the site since the last time I
| visited. It's so nice.
| lippihom wrote:
| Amazing site, and life!
| p_j_w wrote:
| I'd just like to say I really loved watching your sailing
| videos. I was watching a lot of videos from sailboat cruisers
| around the start of the pandemic, and your videos were such a
| breath of fresh air in that space, as I relate to you two much
| more strongly than the stereotypical cruiser hanging out in the
| Caribbean for years on end.
| xavdid wrote:
| I wasn't in Japan, but I did something similar in the US for
| about 6 months before the pandemic cut our (planned 12 month)
| trip short.
|
| It was far from perfect, but it was super rewarding! Your
| experience will vary wildly based on what's available in your
| van, but you can make just about anything work.
| TurboHaskal wrote:
| > We usually don't bathe every day and listen to our body's
| needs.
|
| If I did this I'd need to shower every 4h :)
| petodo wrote:
| I'm living in apartment and shower twice a week (at least in
| winter). Never understood obsession with daily shower as seen
| is American movies, no wonder Americans have extreme water
| consumption, I wonder how common is eczema and skin diseases
| over there compared to countries which shower less.
|
| EDIT: instead of downvoting rather prove me wrong, do you think
| Americans don't have extreme water consumption? US water
| consumption per capita is in top 10 in whole world and it's 4
| times higher than Germany for instance. Everything else in
| comment are just observations, but I guess too many Americans
| here don't like the facts and observations.
|
| https://www.worldometers.info/water/
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| If you do any physical work, you get sweaty, sweat means
| bacteria, means bad smell. Some of us don't like to stink,
| also don't like our beds to stink.
| ensignavenger wrote:
| Fun fact- most Koreans don't have the same sweat gland that
| many others have that produce the type of sweet that the
| stinky bacteria feed on, and thus don't stink like
| Americans from sweating (they do have their own smell, from
| what I understand, but it isn't as pungent) and thus they
| don't usually use deodorant/antiperspirant. It is my
| understanding some other Asian groups don't stink or don't
| stink as much, as well, due to differences in the sweat
| produced.
| vehemenz wrote:
| It's true of most East Asians and to a lesser degree with
| South Asians. Surprised I had to scroll so far to find
| this comment.
| HPsquared wrote:
| What fraction of people do any substantial physical work in
| an average day? I reckon about 25%.
| pigsty wrote:
| Men also generally stink more. Just being too warm for a
| few minutes means smelly armpits and crotch for loads of
| dudes.
| digdugdirk wrote:
| This might be more a reflection of your social bubble.
| I'd reckon the percentage would be more likely to be
| flipped. Especially if we're talking about a global
| population.
| bitwize wrote:
| Hackernews told me that this is just another microbiome
| that needs to be brought into balance, after which the
| smell goes away; and that soaps and shampoos disrupt that
| balance.
|
| As one who's hung out with bohemian vagabonds who didn't
| make a routine habit of bathing, my nose has told me
| otherwise.
|
| Nice people but... humans smell funny in general.
| uoaei wrote:
| > humans smell funny in general
|
| A fact of life that seems pointless to try to avoid.
|
| One person's BO is another person's aphrodisiac.
| Biochemistry is fun, lean into it!
| uoaei wrote:
| It's really not that simple. The bacteria that live on my
| skin don't stink like that after a lot of exercise.
| esperent wrote:
| I'm from a northern European country and I moved to a
| tropical country. I sweat buckets here, quite possibly
| literally.
|
| You can bet I shower daily. Sometimes I shower several times
| a day (although fortunately I live by the sea so I try to
| jump in there instead when possible). I also sometimes go
| though several shirts in a day and have to take care to
| manage my electrolytes and hydration.
|
| Showering this often is not a luxury, it's a necessity. To
| avoid becoming a stinking sweat monster who would send
| children screaming, I mean.
|
| Locals don't have this problem. I've been living here for
| years and I don't think my body is going to adapt.
|
| America is a big place, and a lot of it is hot and populated
| with many people of a similar ancestry to mine. Maybe it's
| where their "obsession" comes from?
| petodo wrote:
| Last time I checked US was not a tropical country.
| Obviously when I travelled around Southeast Asia I was
| showering daily. We are talking here about your regular
| American living and working in AC home and moving between
| them in AC car and shopping in AC shops and not doing
| manual labor.
|
| > Locals don't have this problem.
|
| Oh they do, but for instance they use prickly heat powder
| in some of those tropical countries. And that's also reason
| why everything is airconditioned and you freeze in buses,
| cinemas, etc. so they are comfortable and don't sweat that
| much.
|
| US water consumption per capita is 4X higher (3794 litres)
| than Germany (855), 9X highter than Czechia (422).
|
| Even warm Spain and Greece have half of US water
| consumption, Thailand little bit over half, Malaysia less
| than 1/3 of US consumption, so there is no reasonable
| excuse why Americans waste that much water.
| ehnto wrote:
| You're fixating on water consumption as a measure of the
| impact of showering, but for a households usage it's more
| likely the amount of grass Americans maintain that pumps
| those numbers up.
|
| I would also like to point out how massive America is, it
| has almost all the climates, and it has almost all the
| infrastructure variants in regards to where the water
| comes from and how impactful that usage is.
| dahfizz wrote:
| Looking at _municipal_ water usage per capita,
|
| US uses 175.9 m3 per capita
|
| Germany uses 236.5 m3 per capita
|
| Czechia uses 57.5 per capita
|
| So individuals in America (i.e. showering) do not use
| abnormally high amounts of water. The country in total
| uses more water because we have more farming and more
| industry than Germany or Czechia.
|
| https://www.worldometers.info/water/us-water/
|
| https://www.worldometers.info/water/germany-water/
|
| https://www.worldometers.info/water/czechia-water/
| unmole wrote:
| People shower everyday and even multiple times a day in the
| tropics. It's not some weird American _obsession_.
| prmoustache wrote:
| I take several showers /day in summer but they are usually
| quick 1 minute rinse to cool and remove sweat. Only one is
| done with soap.
|
| Some people would probably use more water in one 10 minute
| hot shower / day. Never understood people taking long
| showers.
| kragen wrote:
| household freshwater consumption in the usa is insignificant
| compared to irrigation freshwater consumption, so shower
| frequency is irrelevant; what matters is, roughly, bushels of
| rice produced per capita
| joxel wrote:
| So everyone else just smells like shit all the time in other
| countries? I smell like shit when I wake up in the morning,
| you wouldn't want to work next to me if I don't shower.
| orangepurple wrote:
| You smell bad because of your diet.
|
| Build up of aromatics in your adipose tissue that are
| released over time via your sebaceous glands, bacterial
| decomposition products of those compounds, and off-gassing
| of bacterial decomposition byproducts from your orifices
| contribute to bad body odor.
| Firmwarrior wrote:
| I'm going to be your pal and tell this to you to help you
| out: You stink, and people are just too polite to say it
| to your face
| orangepurple wrote:
| I'm not sure who you are responding to here. Wrong
| thread?
| innocentoldguy wrote:
| I agree that diet is a factor. I started living in Japan
| back in the late 80s and spent a lot of time helping
| newcomers learn how to speak Japanese and get around in
| society. One thing I noticed is that people fresh from
| America had an odd buttery smell that went away after
| they ate a Japanese diet for a few weeks.
| duffyjp wrote:
| batsutaChou i / Battakusai / Stinks of butter was a
| derogatory term for foreigners in the past. Butter was
| unpopular with locals in Japan for a long time by what
| I've read, but I never thought the expression was being
| literal. Interesting.
| elbigbad wrote:
| Not only from just existing, but between going to the gym a
| few days a week and doing regular cardio on other days, I
| just can't imagine the absolute rank stink from not
| showering regularly. Once I thought I didn't work up enough
| of a sweat weightlifting in the gym so went to bed when I
| got home, and the bed smelled like absolute trash the next
| day and neither me nor my partner could sleep there again
| without washing everything.
|
| Maybe it's just my neuroses or mental illness, but I can't
| imagine smelling so badly and not showering even if I
| didn't socialize with others, and can't imagine I'd have
| many people to continue to socialize with (in USA so this
| is probably different in the OP's country) if I smelled so
| bad when I went out.
| uoaei wrote:
| That's not sweat, that's the bacteria on your skin. Use
| less soap and change your diet and you will encourage
| more healthy skin microbiome that can even smell
| pleasant.
| shkkmo wrote:
| People are different and skin biomes can change. The ways
| that showering habits (frequency, duration, temp, ph, soap
| use, etc) effect skin biomes is poorly understood. The
| largest factor in body odor is the bacteria living on our
| skin, so it is entirely conceivable that with a different
| showering regime your skin biome would change over time and
| cause you to generate BO differently.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| By your own source the vast majority of that use is
| agricultural and industrial [1]. If you look at say, Germany
| they use 19.68 billion m^3 for municipal purposes vs 58.39 in
| the US, but the US population is about 4x that of Germany, so
| Americans use less water than Germans(for example). The
| Japanese use a little less per person for municipal purposes,
| but not by a lot.
|
| People are down voting you because you're muddling domestic
| use with agricultural and industrial numbers and you're being
| a judgemental asshole. And you can't be both innumerate and
| an asshole at the same time here.
|
| [1] https://www.worldometers.info/water/us-water/
| Liuser wrote:
| Is that link for personal water use or does it account for
| farming?
|
| What do you suggest to people who exercise everyday?
| petodo wrote:
| It doesn't really matter, ebcause it applies same to all
| countries, so it doesn't explain why Americans need to
| consume 4 times more water per capita (3794 litres) than
| Germans (855), while Czechs for instance even half of the
| Germans (422).
|
| And don't go at me with average temperatures nonsense,
| Spain and Greece are warmer than most of the US and have
| half of US water consumption, Thailand little bit over
| half, Malaysia less than 1/3 of US consumption.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| OP is confusing overall use which includes agricultural and
| industrial use with municipal use.
| samwestdev wrote:
| Japanese people are also obsessed with bath/shower every day
| before sleeping.
| skhr0680 wrote:
| In summer: you need a shower to wash the sweat off
|
| In winter: you need a bath to get as warm as possible
| before going to bed. Until recently (~1980s-90s) houses
| were expected to be ephemeral, whether they were knocked
| over by an earthquake or the new owner, so people skipped
| "luxuries" like insulation.
| hermitcrab wrote:
| >In winter: you need a bath to get as warm as possible
| before going to bed
|
| Have you tried an electric blanket?
| saiya-jin wrote:
| You don't need to use any chemistry for shower unless you are
| greasy, thus no pollution and washing your skin with just
| water is good for it if not outright neutral. You do you,
| some people sweat and/or smell more, some people less, some
| have very social lives and some go out of their home just for
| shopping or not even that.
|
| And some simply don't care if they disgust others. World is
| big, no need to bash Americans or any other nation.
| petodo wrote:
| > washing your skin with just water is good for it if not
| outright neutral
|
| Not true, excessive washing even just with water dries your
| skin plus not everyone has exactly pH neutral showering
| water. So yes, you can wash every day and then apply
| lotion/cream or you can just not wash and avoid all of
| that.
| uoaei wrote:
| I've reduced my skin and scalp's dependence on soap and
| shampoo, and now a vigorous rinse in a hot shower gets me 95%
| clean. I do use a mild (minimal glycerin content) soap on
| sensitive parts. Whatever it is that accumulates on my body
| over time has become less oil-based (more water-based) and
| after some time in hot water begins mixing (emulsifying?) so
| that I become clean.
|
| This helps you to live with a healthy skin microbiome that is
| effective at maintaining itself. I can easily skip a shower for
| a day and be fine, because the buggies living on my skin help
| manage the population of bacteria and yeasts that ultimately
| contribute to smells, pleasant or otherwise.
|
| However the transition from Western-style harmful hygiene
| practices (harsh soaps, extreme obsession) back to a more
| normal baseline can take a while, and requires being a little
| gross as your body re-learns to manage itself without such
| drastic outside measures as strong surfactants.
|
| tl;dr your skin and scalp easily develop an unhealthy
| dependence on external soaps, resulting in a chronic inability
| to manage skin microbe populations, which means you're covered
| in uncontrolled colonies of stinky microbes until your next
| shower. Let your body handle it and it will manage those
| populations itself.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Not the main problem. It is a stinky bacteria infection in
| the armpits. Coincidentally uncommon in Japan. No amount of
| washing will fully get rid of them because they are beneath
| the skin in the sweat glands.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "It is a stinky bacteria infection in the armpits. "
|
| If it is a infection, then something is very wrong.
|
| Otherwise you can and should clean them with care,
| especially when you cannot shower.
| Beaver117 wrote:
| Are there any actual studies on no-soap and no-shampoo? I've
| only ever heard anecdotes.
| oriettaxx wrote:
| uh, super!
|
| but this is the kind of link you want to be the only one reading
| :(
| bubba_sparks wrote:
| Agreed. You probably just ruined it for yourself and every
| other serendipitous explorer. This is why we can't have nice
| things.
| rr888 wrote:
| Japanese people are usually very organized and neat, I can't
| imagine they'd appreciate backpackers coming through like this.
|
| Where I come from there are ever increasing number of people
| living in vans and its a real problem. They usually just cause
| problems, dont pay hotel or property taxes and ruin the area for
| everyone else. Some towns have banned them which is worse for the
| few locals that used to do it on a short trip.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| What problems do they cause?
|
| Why would they pay hotel or property taxes when they do not
| reside there, and have none of the rights of residents (e.g.
| school system access)?
|
| Also, isn't blaming "an increasing number of people living in
| vans" a perfect example of shooting the messenger and ignoring
| the message?
| jiminymcmoogley wrote:
| Likewise I would imagine backpackers must be even more
| organized and neater (after all, they must all have less space
| to store all their belongings, which would put on pressure to
| be organized about it), I can't imagine they'd appreciate
| Japanese people being in the way like this.
|
| Where I come from there are ever increasing numbers of people
| living in houses and its a real problem. They usually just
| cause problems, dont pay parking fees or fuel duties and ruin
| the area for everyone else. Some towns have mandated them which
| is worse for the few travellers that used to do it on a short
| trip
| themodelplumber wrote:
| Organized and neat really varies even depending on the local
| culture and there's quite a bit of variety in normalish
| neighborhoods...I have cleaned out some serious Japanese
| hoarder houses / elderly houses in my time, and sometimes
| circumstances or life can change people, too, like from
| organized to more like a hoarder.
|
| Phew all those roaches man xD
| pwim wrote:
| As someone living in Japan, this doesn't strike me as something
| locals would complain about. Heck, my Japanese in-laws did a
| week long van camping trip last year, and I think they'd be
| impressed with this person's setup.
| EngCanMan wrote:
| "An empty water bottle/adult diaper can become a luxury in the
| middle of the night to avoid putting on your clothes/shoes and
| exiting the van in the coldness"
|
| You lost me when adult diapers became a luxury.
| binanc wrote:
| Agreed. Why not install a toilet in the van? I remember
| watching videos where peopled installed toilets in their van.
| Didn't seem too complicated.
| yreg wrote:
| >Our van doesn't have toilets, considering how difficult it
| is to dump trash I wouldn't recommend using your own toilets
| while traveling.
| Vrondi wrote:
| Japan has no campgrounds with RV hookups? At such
| facilities, you can hook up and flush out your sewerage.
| binanc wrote:
| I don't buy it. What do buses and RVs with toilets do in
| japan? If it is that difficult to dump trash, then what do
| these guys do with their soiled diapers? Certainly there
| has to be better options than wearing diapers.
| yreg wrote:
| I don't know, but I drove an RV for a month through
| Europe and we've never used the onboard toilet because we
| didn't want to have to deal with it. (We were also
| students on budget and wanted to avoid camps as much as
| possible.)
|
| Of course I would prefer the RV toilet to a diaper
| though.
| aliqot wrote:
| I don't know, it's already unsettling when the person driving
| in front of me is leaving a trail of wiper fluid sprinklets
| ericmcer wrote:
| Diaper is gross, but peeing in a bottle while sleeping in the
| car can be nice. Just roll over, pee, roll back over and fall
| asleep again. Much less intrusive than getting up and walking
| to the bathroom, dealing with bright lights, etc.
| seszett wrote:
| Peeing in a bottle while in bed is a tad more complicated for
| a woman.
| dieselgate wrote:
| Going in a bottle is not a solution for all of us
| unfortunately
| bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
| There's a device called a she-wee and many female vanlifers
| report success with Folgers tins or large fountain drink
| cups, which then get poured into a bottle.
|
| Source: thevanlifecoach.com
| chrisBob wrote:
| Probably not while laying down, but a wide mouth bottle,
| such as a dedicated Nalgene bottle, can work.
| dieselgate wrote:
| it can work in a pinch but from personal experience can't
| recommend using water bottles for these purposes at all
| almog wrote:
| While my personal urinating experience so far in life has
| involved a male urethra, I met on trail women who've been
| using Shewee for peeing in the outdoors. I imagine that if
| it works the way it's supposed to work, maybe it could work
| with a bottle.
| [deleted]
| whymauri wrote:
| Just use a water bottle like the rest of us! I lived out of an
| Explorer for 3 months, not once did an adult diaper cross my
| mind.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| This only works for about 50% of the population.
| whymauri wrote:
| I guarantee you there are many women van/car lifers who
| don't use adult diapers (I know quite a few!). As has been
| said many times in this thread, there are inexpensive tools
| for this.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Did I somehow say otherwise?
|
| I said that _just_ peeing in a bottle really only works
| for half the population. That 's all. Your choice to
| somehow read into those words so deeply as to make up a
| completely new sentence that was never written is yours
| alone.
| stickfigure wrote:
| My wife disagrees:
| https://www.rei.com/product/407267/freshette-pee-funnel
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Sure, products exist which make it possible, but the
| parent commenter said:
|
| > Just use a water bottle like the rest of us!
|
| That's not _just_ using a water bottle. And certainly is
| specialized enough of a tool that you likely can 't find
| it as ubiquitously as a water bottle.
| jacobriis wrote:
| Funnels are a more specialized tool than adult diapers?
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Funnels that are specifically shaped for that purpose
| very much are, yes. I don't understand how that's even a
| question.
|
| Adult diapers' main purpose isn't peeing while on a van
| trip; I would imagine elderly people around the world
| need them day to day. A funnel specifically made for
| women to pee is an _incredibly_ niche product with little
| to no day-to-day use.
|
| Nobody said that a diaper is superior to a funnel. The
| grandparent comment makes it seem like it's easy for half
| the population to pee in a bottle and I called them out
| on it. I didn't even mention the ubiquity of adult
| diapers, I compared finding a specialized funnel to a
| water bottle on purpose.
| jacobriis wrote:
| "The grandparent comment makes it seem like it's easy for
| half the population to pee in a bottle and I called them
| out on it."
|
| Funnels of various sizes readily available in every
| hardware and auto parts store. Also these specific
| funnels are readily available in outdoors and sporting
| stores. It is easy to find funnels. No need to defend
| "half the population" by "calling them out on it."
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| To remind you, because scrolling up seems to be a bit too
| tough for you right now, the GP comment says:
|
| > Just use a water bottle like the rest of us!
|
| That's still not _just_ a water bottle. Period. However
| easy it is, it 's not _just_ a water bottle, and it 's
| not as easy as finding a water bottle.
|
| That was literally my entire point, as I have now said
| multiple times, but go off sis.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Order a soft-drink to go. Nice wide-mouth container.
| ietktnz wrote:
| I came here to quote this with virtually the same response. I
| will go so far as to say this is gross.
| rgrieselhuber wrote:
| Gross. Anyone who has camped knows that feeling of sadness
| when it's cold outside but you have to go to the bathroom at
| 3am. But some of the best moments I've had outside are during
| that time. The air is cleaner, you can see the stars if it's
| clear, you might hear coyotes or other animals yipping not
| too far off...well worth the momentary annoyance.
| bombcar wrote:
| Camping in a remote environment is way different than
| parked in a parking lot on some highway exit - and now that
| Walmart isn't 24 hrs in the US you can't even just park
| there and walk in.
|
| Temperature also changes things - if it's above zero
| outside it's not so bad for a quick jaunt, but if it is
| -40o it's a whole different ballgame.
| rgrieselhuber wrote:
| Sure, but I don't know a lot of places in Japan that get
| to those temperatures, especially on the map indicated.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, "van life" is going to vary wildly depending on the
| country and even where in the country you are.
| sva_ wrote:
| Reminds me of getting out of a hammock in the woods at
| night.
| nicbou wrote:
| It's a rare opportunity to see the stars. It's always worth
| it.
| nabilhat wrote:
| For anyone who's spent any time sleeping in a van or car in
| public parking, this feels like gently worded subtext that fits
| in with this from the 'safety' section:
|
| > _While sleeping in normal parking I think it is important to
| keep discrete so people will not bother you and you will not
| annoy anyone._
|
| In much of the world, going outside to pee in the bushes in a
| populated area carries a nonzero risk of attention from law
| enforcement and a progression to sleeping outside minus the now
| impounded van.
| bitwize wrote:
| Try "sleeping under a bridge the rest of your life". Public
| exposure is a registerable offense in some states.
| gambiting wrote:
| Fortunately there's plenty of world outside of the United
| States, where peeing outside does not make you a sex
| offender.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Do you really expose to the public when you are turning
| your back to everyone?
| turdprincess wrote:
| A wide mouth Nalgene or whey protein container work well for
| both ladies and males. I've never heard of anyone using a
| diaper. Pee only of course.
| BizarreByte wrote:
| It's hard to imagine putting up with stuff like this when for
| the same amount of money it takes to do "van life" in Japan you
| could live quite well elsewhere.
| vsareto wrote:
| These vans do seem reasonably priced compared to American
| living vans. I don't think you'd get much living for around
| $60k. Plus you could rent vs. buy.
| TylerE wrote:
| Also about 1/4 the size.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| The author links to a van rental service. Looks like a van
| comparable to the author's van rents for Y=24,800/night.
| Ouch! You could get a very nice hotel room in rural Japan
| for that.
| bradleyjg wrote:
| What does it cost to live in rural Japan? I was under the
| impression the countryside is depopulating, which I would
| think would mean reduced costs.
| duffyjp wrote:
| I lived in rural Japan for two years as a single guy and it
| was very, very cheap. I was making ~30k USD and saved half
| of it without really trying. I didn't have a car, but you
| don't need one even in the countryside if you can bike.
| These days you could Uber etc too which didn't exist yet
| when I was there.
| rtpg wrote:
| I have a hard time imagining it to be cheaper to live in
| this truck than most things. And the kid... I can't imagine
| this is good for the kid.
|
| Obviously the point of the van is that you can move around
| a lot!
|
| Aside: vagrancy is illegal in Japan, so if you're sticking
| to the law you probably need to rent somewhere (or use your
| parents) and have a registered address.
| jefftk wrote:
| _> I can't imagine this is good for the kid._
|
| Why would you expect this to be a bad life for a 1.5yo?
| They get a lot of time with their parents, and a lot of
| time outside?
|
| I'd feel differently with, say, a 4yo where that this
| sort of life would mean not having friends, but a 1.5yo
| is too young for that to be an issue.
| scandox wrote:
| This is absolutely fine for a young kid. Kids are way
| less conventional than adults at that age. If a kid gets
| food, warmth and attention they're basically golden.
| dymk wrote:
| [flagged]
| prmoustache wrote:
| Therapy from living in a van as a 1.5y old? really?
| dymk wrote:
| Did the author indicate he's going to stop his van life
| anytime soon?
| ym705 wrote:
| You should probably go to therapy yourself
| Loughla wrote:
| It solidly depends on the age/stage of development of the
| child. When you say young, that really means like <3
| years. Anything above that, and they really need
| stability, routine, and regular/stable interaction with
| individuals outside of the immediate family group to
| avoid long-term developmental and psychological issues.
| scandox wrote:
| Yeah I think one could quibble on the exact age...I think
| even up to 4 it would be OK. After that I think a more
| stable setup is definitely positive. I would say though
| that a stable environment where they get little attention
| from parents is not superior.
| ensignavenger wrote:
| - vagrancy is illegal in Japan
|
| Is that why you don't see any homeless in Japan? They
| just arrest them for vagrancy and house them in jail?
| an_aparallel wrote:
| There are limited public places to "sit" in Tokyo/and
| other cities too, for example, this is increasingly
| common part of civic design, to encourage either "moving
| on", or "taking refuge" in shops/cafes > ie. spending.
|
| It's basically discrimination by design.
| ensignavenger wrote:
| Note: I can't find any source to confirm that vagrancy is
| illegal in Japan- the Wikipedia article on homelessness
| in Japan makes no mention of it-
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Japan
| foobiekr wrote:
| If you have ever been to Tokyo you have seen plenty of
| homeless. Tokyo is where people take their shoes off
| before getting into their box.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| > Is that why you don't see any homeless in Japan? They
| just arrest them for vagrancy and house them in jail?
|
| Each time I've been to Japan I've noticed plenty of
| homeless people. They are really tidy about it, but
| you'll find encampments in Osaka and Tokyo if you just
| check out some of the parks.
| tmtvl wrote:
| According to a very untrustworthy source
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Japan) the
| numbers of homeless people are somewhat low-ish, if those
| numbers are anywhere near accurate it may account for the
| low visibility of the problem.
| innocentoldguy wrote:
| There are homeless people in Japan. You'll see them
| sitting in alcoves by train stations or sleeping under a
| stack of umbrellas in parks sometimes. The places I've
| seen them most are in remote locations by rivers, where
| they'll set up tents or tie tarps to trees to live under.
| They aren't as ubiquitous as they are in the US though,
| and I've only seen a homeless person panhandling once in
| all my years in Japan.
| ensignavenger wrote:
| Yeah, I was doing more research and could not find
| anything to suggest that Japanese homeless are regularly
| arrested and housed in jails.
| grozzle wrote:
| There are lots of homeless in Japan, and people do see
| them.
|
| Anyone living near Tokyo who has money, clothes, shoes,
| gas cans, batteries, shelter material, work opportunities
| etc they wish to pass on - please reply here or email
| i.am.grozzle at gmail, please. Or ask staff at Lavanderia
| cafe in Shinjuku ni-chome.
| more_corn wrote:
| They could have bought a house in rural Japan for peanuts.
| Probably less than they spent modifying the van let alone
| buying it. They did it to travel. Not what I'd choose, but
| interesting.
| ym705 wrote:
| Author here: Just to clarify: We don't wear diaper everyday...
| But it happened and was a good option during snow for the
| lady.. The luxury was an expression (I'm not English native
| speaker).
| innocentoldguy wrote:
| My Japanese wife would never go for that.
| gambiting wrote:
| If it was the middle of the night and she absolutely _had
| to_ go I 'm sure she would - anyone would.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| Yeah, this and the trash situation seem pretty unpleasant to
| me.
| mailman11 wrote:
| What a great article because, unlike nonsense IG hippies, this
| seems like a normal person doing something they think is fun, but
| knows they can't do it forever and that it isn't for everyone. I
| heartily appreciate their attitude, lack of paid sponsorship
| (#ad), and realism ("I have a kid. I am a freelance SWE. I would
| honestly not recommend living in a van with family if you can't
| arrange your work schedule completely to what you want.")
| chaostheory wrote:
| Given Japan's problem with depopulation, is this better than just
| renovating a free house? For context, in many prefectures there
| are houses that are either free or cost $15,000 or less.
| Manuel_D wrote:
| The crucial difference is that vans are mobile: most of the
| people I know living in vans travel constantly, and that kind
| of nomadic life is part of the appeal.
| GoldenRacer wrote:
| Depends on your goals. If you want to travel to and explorer
| new places on a regular basis, a van can make more sense since
| you aren't tired to a specific location and can go anywhere
| driveable at a moments notice. There are certainly tradeoffs to
| having that ability but for some people, it's obviously worth
| it.
| pancrufty wrote:
| Nobody renovates houses in Japan. You're supposed to destroy it
| and build anew. For 15k you're buying the lot and the right to
| spend a lot more than that.
| zzzbra wrote:
| this is changing.
| justusthane wrote:
| How come? Is it just cultural? Are there laws against it?
| raincole wrote:
| Because of earthquakes. Old houses are considered unsafe
| even after renovation. Of course things are changing as
| modern materials are getting more trust.
| barking_biscuit wrote:
| It's just cultural.
| michaelt wrote:
| _> Unlike in other countries, Japanese homes gradually
| depreciate over time, becoming completely valueless within
| 20 or 30 years. When someone moves out of a home or dies,
| the house, unlike the land it sits on, has no resale value
| and is typically demolished. This scrap-and-build approach
| is a quirk of the Japanese housing market that can be
| explained variously by low-quality construction to quickly
| meet demand after the second world war, repeated building
| code revisions to improve earthquake resilience and a cycle
| of poor maintenance due to the lack of any incentive to
| make homes marketable for resale._
|
| -- https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-
| reusabl...
|
| Of course, houses can be renovated - as the article
| explains. But going along with a country's traditional
| building methods is often cheaper than bucking the trends.
| twblalock wrote:
| People renovate older homes, which have historical value, but
| most homes built in the postwar period are rightly discarded
| because they are thin, flimsy junk.
| gusgus01 wrote:
| Well there's at least one person who has:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwRjO3kHxU4
|
| He mentions renovation companies as well as builders who will
| undertake renovations. He has many more videos detailing the
| process. However, being a youtuber does open up possibilities
| that aren't common.
| varelse wrote:
| [dead]
| testermelon wrote:
| I wonder how do they handle address and municipal paperworks. Do
| you legally "stay" at a friend's house/apartment?
| mayormcmatt wrote:
| Used to live in Oita and totally agree that prefecture, Miyazaki,
| and I'd throw in Kagoshima, are all great for seaside (or
| otherwise) free camping. Used to putter around on my bicycle or
| in my tiny car to sleep at beaches, out-of-the-way parks, Michi
| No Eki: wherever I could find privacy and not bother anyone.
| Frequent onsen make cleanliness a breeze and a joy. Great times,
| those!
| orliesaurus wrote:
| I wish there was a way to experience this as a foreign tourist
| blamazon wrote:
| It's not that hard really, I recommend it. RV rentals are a
| thing in Japan. I am from USA, so I went to a local shop here
| that offers International Driver's Permits. All they do is look
| at your driver's license to ensure it's valid, and then stamp a
| little paper brochure that has a bunch of translations of what
| your country permits with a driver's license. You can get as
| many of these as you want, it's not an actual license but just
| a certified translation, so you still need to carry your
| regular license. I got pulled over once at 3am in the middle of
| nowhere and the officer didn't speak any English and was so
| confused when I handed him my documents but once I pointed to
| the Japanese section of the IDP he studied it for a bit and
| then made the sounds of "ohhhh, I get it now" and let me go.
|
| (Aside: If you're traveling to a country where casual roadside
| police bribes are a fact of life, (NOT Japan, more like
| Turkmenistan) multiple IDPs can be really handy, since the
| mechanism of the bribe is often 'I will hold your important
| document for you until you are ready to give the money' and
| they may not realize the IDP isn't actually your license, so
| you can just drive away.)
|
| Also, language barrier isn't really an issue day to day. Most
| people in the huge urban centers (such as where you'd pick up
| the RV) speak English well. Once you get off the beaten track,
| English is a lot less common but translation apps work well (i
| enabled the Japanese keyboard on my iPhone and often we'd just
| pass the phone back and forth, typing messages) locals off the
| beaten path tend to be interested in foreign travelers, happy
| to take time to help, learn more about you, etc. Small regions
| in Japan tend to have strong local identity and there is
| generally an interest in sharing that with travelers.
|
| I only did it for 2 weeks but Japan would have let me stay for
| 90 days without a visa.
| shortcake27 wrote:
| > locals off the beaten path tend to be interested in foreign
| travelers, happy to take time to help
|
| I had this experience everywhere, not just off the beaten
| path. Language barrier was never a problem for me in Japan
| because people would bend over backwards to help me.
| twblalock wrote:
| You can get by without speaking Japanese as a normal tourist,
| but if you try to live in a van and get hassled by the
| police, lacking Japanese language skills will not go well for
| you.
| blamazon wrote:
| Relative to this, a good idea when traveling
| internationally is to carry contact information for a local
| embassy or diplomatic branch of your home country.
| SECProto wrote:
| > language barrier isn't really an issue day to day. Most
| people in the huge urban centers (such as where you'd pick up
| the RV) speak English well.
|
| This is not the general experience in Japan, and advising
| people to expect English speakers is misleading :) That said,
| you will certainly still get by, and if you're nervous about
| it there are definitely other (more expensive) rental options
| with strong English language support - one of them is linked
| from the blog.
| blamazon wrote:
| Good point, not a precise statement from me. I personally
| did not want to use one of those more expensive options so
| I called around to find an agency that was open to renting
| to a foreigner, but wasn't too targeted at renting to
| foreigners. So, definitely selection bias there since my
| memory is the ones I didn't go with basically just said no,
| which isn't enough data to show if there was enough English
| support to complete a complicated rental transaction.
| dusted wrote:
| Site seems down due to database error at the moment.
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20230207112109/https://kumazen.c...
| padraic7a wrote:
| I was just about to post that. Well done.
| ym705 wrote:
| Thanks, just enabled cache and rebooted server
| yreg wrote:
| Thank you for the article, it is fascinating.
| BryantD wrote:
| Lovely piece! Any thoughts on whether or not speaking Japanese
| would be a requirement? It would of course be the polite thing to
| do.
| yreg wrote:
| Not OP, but I traveled through Japan with a few friends before
| the pandemic and none of us speak Japanese. It's true that
| almost no one there speaks english. However, everyone we've
| encountered (especially the people working in the service
| industry) was super friendly and tried their best to be
| helpful. The public transport system is thought out and labeled
| very well, even in english + it plays well with Google Maps, so
| navigation was never an issue.
|
| One thing that I didn't expect (although it makes perfect
| sense) is that OCR of Japanese writing is very bad compared to
| what we've got used to. Aiming a phone with Google Translate at
| some sign will often produce total garbage. You can attempt to
| transcribe the kanji with your finger and that usually gives
| better results, but is tedious and difficult (since the order
| of strokes matters and you have no clue about it). We've
| quickly learned a few crucial kanjis, e.g. Chu Kou for `exit`.
|
| A tip for the restaurants that only offer japanese menu with no
| pictures: open the listing in Maps, browse through the photos
| and show the waiter a photo of the meal you would like.
| randomopining wrote:
| I found it kind of boring/isolating though. Did you? It's
| unbelievably easy to move through their society, eat well,
| etc etc. But not truly interacting with anybody for weeks at
| a time besides tourists is kind of annoying.
| yreg wrote:
| I was there only for a bit more than two weeks, so I crave
| to go back. We are rather introverted so we socialized (for
| more than a short dialogue) only two times IIRC.
|
| Once was with other foreigners at a hostel. But the other
| time it was at some tiny pub in Hiroshima. They had like 3
| tables and there were only the owners (a couple) and 2-3
| regulars. All of them wanted to drink and hang out with us
| and they were very loud and enthusiastic even though we
| didn't understand each other almost at all. We loved it, I
| will never forget it.
| mncharity wrote:
| Discussing where in the world to travel, someone told me
| roughly: When I can manage conversations, my travel is
| about people. When not, it's about places. As I prefer
| people to places, that's my first filter.
| spike021 wrote:
| I've gone on two separate trips. I did have this feeling at
| times. What helped though was finding groups of people who
| shared hobbies with me. This way I could chat with them,
| even using Google Translate, and have some form of that
| connection.
| BryantD wrote:
| Cool, thank you! Those are helpful tips. Like you I'm very
| introverted so I suspect I'd be fine with what you've
| described.
| Justsignedup wrote:
| Every damn time I hear about van life, including the main image
| in the article........ "I live in a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!"
| karaokeyoga wrote:
| https://archive.md/pLCVD
| poorman wrote:
| As someone who's been doing van life for the past year, things
| like finding water, and places to camp are usually top of mind.
| Especially if you try to stay on the East Coast of the United
| States for a while. Might have to try Japan!
| shortcake27 wrote:
| You could also try New Zealand. You're probably never more than
| 30 minutes drive away from a campsite. And if you get a self-
| contained vehicle it's even better as you can park up virtually
| anywhere.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| East coast, or more generally, east of the Mississippi, is
| definitely much harder than the west. Here in New Mexico, you
| can sleep overnight pretty much anywhere you want ... nobody
| will care unless you stay for more than 3-4 nights. Water can
| still be challenging out here, although when we've been in our
| van for a long time out east, we generally abandon our in-
| vehicle tanks and just buy those 2.5 or 5 gallon jugs from a
| store. I hope you're using iOverlander to help locate both of
| the things you've mentioned.
| Lio wrote:
| I love this or at least the idea of it.
|
| The only thing that really would bother me is, not sure how to
| put this, but the lack of privacy with regard to sleeping
| arrangements.
|
| I guess some people are more comfortable being intimate with
| their partner in close proximity to their children but that's not
| for me.
|
| Anyway everything else looks like an amazing adventure so I wish
| them good luck.
| true_religion wrote:
| When I was little, I briefly lived in a house with 3
| generations and 10+ people in a single room.
|
| From what I remember, parents would just pick a time to be
| alone, and grandma would sit on the porch and shoo any curious
| children away from the house.
| calsy wrote:
| Humans have always slept in family groups. It seems like the
| more natural thing to do.
|
| Likewise with nudity. Westerner's are hung up on covering
| themselves up in front of family members at a certain age. Many
| Asian cultures don't have that baggage. Bathing with family or
| going to a bathhouse is normal, and why wouldn't it be?
| adventured wrote:
| So called "natural" doesn't always mean better. Fortunately
| we get to choose what we like or don't like, preferences.
|
| Our distant ancestors had to put up with a lot of negatives
| that we do not necessarily need to. Just because they did it,
| doesn't mean they wanted to, it may mean they had mediocre
| alternatives (or no alternatives at all).
| calsy wrote:
| Ancestors? It's normal now, just not where you are. A
| couple of centuries ago a bunch of upper class Europeans in
| big homes made it a point of having separate rooms for kids
| as means of showing off their wealth and status, and now
| here we are.
|
| You can see it clearly in the old castles Royal families
| live in and the obscene amount of rooms they have. Their is
| no need for a single family to live in an 18 bedroom
| castle, it's simply a means of displaying status.
|
| Sleeping with your family is normal. Placing children into
| separate rooms away from their parents seem inherently not
| normal.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| From my reading, that's not where "modern living" comes
| from at all. For that, we should look to middle class
| folk living in the Netherlands, in roughly the late
| 1700s. They were (so I have read) the first to develop
| the modern concept of "home" with distinct rooms for
| different purposes, at least on a scale that be
| attained/reasonable aspired to by regular people. The
| account I read of this strongly suggested that this shift
| was not a copy of aristocracy/royalty, but rather a new
| conception rooted in the life and experience of a new
| mercantilist class.
| [deleted]
| hutzlibu wrote:
| Maybe, but for intimacy back in those times, there was plenty
| of private nature around, where couples could sneak away,
| while the grandmas watched the kids.
| Retric wrote:
| Waiting for the kids to fall asleep likely transcends the
| ages... Kids naturally sleep more than adults, especially
| when very young.
| calsy wrote:
| Those days, most of the world lives like this now. Intimacy
| when you have kids is not the highest priority that
| overrides everything. Im not saying its not important, just
| that you don't make life choices based on if we 'can get it
| on here'. You just have to get creative thats all.
|
| Bonding with your child and thinking about their needs
| becomes more important.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "Intimacy when you have kids is not the highest priority
| that overrides everything."
|
| It is not, but it is still missing, when you don't manage
| to make room and time for it. Because when it is missing
| for too long, you can loose each other.
|
| (And I have 2 small children btw. and been on the road
| with them. So I know a bit about "getting creative".)
| r0m4n0 wrote:
| Not sure if the OP is here but I'd recommend a cassette toilet,
| if you can find one in Japan. Having lived in a van it was the
| ideal setup for what you are describing. If there are plenty of
| public restrooms, you empty the cassette toilet there (they wheel
| in like suitcases) and you can give up the adult diapers :)
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