[HN Gopher] WW2 Bomb Explodes in England ___________________________________________________________________ WW2 Bomb Explodes in England Author : mensetmanusman Score : 126 points Date : 2023-02-11 17:38 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.cbsnews.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.cbsnews.com) | eddsh1994 wrote: | If someone died would that increase the tally from the war? Would | the last fatality of WW2 be in 2023? | hanoz wrote: | If anyone wants an education in why " _slowly burning_ the | explosive " isn't as mad an approach to disarming a bomb as it | sounds, please do see the incredibly well informed responses I | was rewarded with when I raised a quizzical eye to the technique | in my post below. | | Unfortunately the best replies were usurped by a telling off from | someone who comically misread my tenor, and now the whole thread | has been moved from top straight to bottom, presumably as the | victim of some anti-controversy algorithm. I know it's not the | done thing to comment on such matters, but there's some really | great posts in there that people put a lot of effort into, and | now they're buried, which, dang, is a shame. | 2b3a51 wrote: | SS Montgomery has 1400 tons of explosives and is within sight of | a small island town. | | _" While the risk of a major explosion is believed to be remote, | it is considered prudent to monitor the condition of the wreck."_ | | https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ss-richard-mo... | | At least they know about it and check the site now and again... | yetanotherloser wrote: | Ever been to Sheerness? they reckon it'll do two million pounds | worth... | | ...of improvements. | | Seriously though, they more than know and check, it's carefully | marked with large conspicuous buoys as well as constantly | monitored in case someone fiddles with it and there are some | pretty big, fast police RIBs round there. (had a nice friendly | chat with them when they wondered if I was a drug smuggler.) | Apparently they're cutting off the rusting masts (above water) | sometime soon to reduce risk further. But there is not much | that sensibly can be done to actually remove it, and there may | not be much of it left that can actually go up. | | Buried bombs that nobody knows are there are far more | worrying... and the Germans have that problem rather worse than | Britain does. | moffkalast wrote: | > had a nice friendly chat with them when they wondered if I | was a drug smuggler. | | I mean if you were a drug smuggler you wouldn't have told | them, would you? | | "Oi mate, what you got that there? And no lies!" | | "Evenin officer, just 200 kilos of cocaine, nothing fancy." | | "Aight crackin, carry on. Wait, you got a loicense fer that | cocaine?!" | yetanotherloser wrote: | :-D | | At risk of personally identifying information... I guess I | did volunteer this one. | | I knew not many people pick a day in mid December to go | sailing. I didn't know I'd be the only one out, the day | they were doing a massive drugs bust. They clearly thought | no real pleasure sailor would be there. Fortunately I am | obviously a harmless WAFI* and the appearance of my kid's | cheery grin in the companionway was enough to convince | them. (Bringing them up hardy, you see) | | They probably also realised that with their hundreds of | horsepower it's not like my beloved 4KSB* is a credible | getaway vehicle. | | *Wind Assisted Fucking Idiot | | **Four Knot S... Box | moffkalast wrote: | That's gotta be the greatest pirate I've ever seen. | phist_mcgee wrote: | I know it's tangential, but there's gotta be a few more | nautical initialisms you can share! | yetanotherloser wrote: | Sorry, can't think of any more funny ones right now. 4KSB | is a Sailing Anarchy-ism; the same kind of boat is for | some reason a MAB in the UK - a Manky Auld Boat. I take | exception to that one. | zabzonk wrote: | there is a possible urban myth (no one seems sure if it is a myth | or not) that the "gate guardian" at RAF Scampton in lincolnshire | consisted not only of a lancaster bomber (i can confirm that - i | went to school under one of the bomber's wings) but also a | tallboy and a grandslam earthquake bomb (can also confirm - | pretty sure there was one of each). the latter 10 tons gross | weight if filled with explosive. which in this instance, it may | have been. | | what i can't confirm, and nobody really seems to know is whether | this myth is true. if it was, and if it had gone off it would | easily have levelled this nuclear bomber base (me included) and | much of the surroundings, with possibly interesting consequences | at the height of the cold war. | | see https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2020/02/myth-busters-the-raf- | sca... for more. | 1letterunixname wrote: | I'm leaning towards "no" without evidence because it's a good | tall tale. | | Aside: A playground park sand pit used to contain a | decommissioned FJ (-2 or -3) Fury. No ordinance or armaments | though: live, dead, or Schrodinger. In the quest to cover kids | in bubblewrap, of course it was replaced with a boring, cookie- | cutter playground. | zabzonk wrote: | i tend to agree, but you can never discount the stupidity of | the "bloody military mind" - a favourite curse word of my mum | when my dad, a pilot, was off on exciting detachments and she | was stuck in the middle of a lincolnshire wilderness with | three kids. | [deleted] | hanoz wrote: | This was while they were attempting to disarm the bomb using the | technique of " _slowly burning_ the explosive ", which in my | obviously completely inexpert opinion, I wouldn't have | recommended. | nine_k wrote: | I would assume that the explosive was TNT. TNT actually takes | some effort to detonate; this is why even artillery shells can | be filled with it, an not explode during firing. TNT can also | burn safely e.g if thrown into a fire in small amounts; you | likely can even make a candle out of it. | | The bomb likely had another, undetected detonator which was | triggered, and it produced enough of a shock wave to make the | TNT explode. | kortex wrote: | > The bomb likely had another, undetected detonator | | That would be really poor bomb design. Bombs are designed to | be stored inert near the airstrip, mounted to staged aircraft | and armed quickly by inserting a primer/detonator. There | would be one and only one per bomb. The detonator would | certainly be removed first before trying to burn out. | | Explosives usually become more unstable over time, sometimes | forming pockets of primary explosives, which can detonate the | bomb. See my sibling comment. | | Edit: I'm completely mistaken! Some bombs in fact have | multiple fuse pockets, so presumably, multiple fuses. | Nonetheless, even with all fuses removed, UXB can still go | off during disposal. | jfk13 wrote: | Per BBC report[1]: | | > Specialists started the process by using a robot to cut | the fuse and trigger at about 17:30 GMT on Thursday, but | abandoned this when water from the cutting process | destabilised part of the sand barrier. | | > A decision was then made to switch to a slow burn | technique, which was being carried out when the device | exploded. | | [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-64604115 | ckozlowski wrote: | Your commentary here and in your post above has been | incredibly insightful. I was reminded of the 1967 USS | Forrestal fire, when I had recalled reading that the ships | captain and ordinance handlers were extremely worried about | loading old bombs aboard the ship. Your explanations gave | much further context to what was likely happening in that | ordinance that gave those men such concern. Thanks! | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire | kortex wrote: | Thank you! | VLM wrote: | Well, poor or not, they did it, I found the American TM for | german bombs of that era printed in the 50s and the SC250 | definitely has a forward and after fuze pocket. Took 5, 17, | 50, or 57 series fuzes. | | Its wild that all this stuff from decades ago is online. | You get used to not having any historical data about, well, | historical events. | | The type 17 fuze was a clockwork that could go 1.5 to 80 | hours after landing. I could imagine something like that | getting jarred into working again after a few decades... | kortex wrote: | Thanks for the correction! Yeah, I did some more digging | and there are in fact some wacky designs. The single- | fusing-element is more dominant in modern designs, but | war is a crazy place. | | (pdf warning) | | https://www.fh- | campuswien.ac.at/fileadmin/redakteure/News/Do... | chiph wrote: | The Germans would sometimes use a timed detonator on their | bombs, intended to kill emergency services personnel who | moved in after the raid and were fighting fires, aiding the | wounded, etc. If you haven't seen it, the show "Danger UXB" | from the early 80's is good. | | https://youtu.be/Mm-RQtPNvqY?t=268 | oneoff786 wrote: | Those crafty Germans must have timed this one to go off | in 2023. | chiph wrote: | After I clicked reply and went to do a chore I thought to | myself "I didn't talk about how it's been almost 80 years | and it's unlikely to have been a timer." Doh. | goodSteveramos wrote: | The British just sent two waves of bombers one a few | hours after the first to kill off the ambulances and | firefighters. Seems like the Germans once again beat the | British at their own disgusting tactics with better | technology. | | Also do you have a source other than a post-war tv show? | Im getting a lot of unrelated search results when trying | to confirm that timed fuses were used this way. Typically | timed fuses were used to make the bomb explode before | reaching the ground so it wouldn't just blow dirt into | the air but would actually collapse lots of roofs etc. | mis-set timers could hurt rescue personnel but i havent | heard that that was even intended by the Germans. | fhars wrote: | Ah, yes, the good old HN classic, "I have thought about it for | two minutes and come to the irrefutable and objectively true | conclusion that the specialists who do this for a living and | have decades of experience and technical know how must | obviously be morons." Always so funny to read... | Eisenstein wrote: | I think it was self-aware a joke referencing that very | thing... | jonplackett wrote: | Whether it is or not, I would strongly recommend the OP - | just like a striker who just scored a goal from a corner - | immediately claim that is was 100% deliberate. | zenexer wrote: | There's nothing wrong with pointing out that a standard | technique for disarming a bomb seems counterintuitive to a | layperson. That's the sort of observation that fuels | curiosity and interesting discussion. I don't think the OP | was suggesting that it was the wrong technique. | nathanwh wrote: | I do agree that I see that comment a lot on here. However | that seems to be a pretty uncharitable reading of the parent | comment, as it seems they were more expressing surprise that | burning the explosive is a legitimate means of defusing a | bomb. | kortex wrote: | Some context as a chemist. Most explosives require DDT | (deflagration to detonation transition) in order to explode. | DDT occurs when the flame front goes supersonic in the material | and creates a shockwave (simplification but close enough). | | Low sensitivity is desirable because you want explosives to go | off on demand, not randomly. Thus, most bulk explosives can be | safely burned without detonation. Primary explosives have a low | DDT threshold, meaning it takes far less energy and/or | confinement to DDT. Thus, you can have a small primary, | sometimes a secondary booster, to set off your bulk charge. The | primer can be removed/dissolved to render the weapon far safer. | But not perfectly safe. | | I don't know the exact composition, but it is likely a | combination of TNT, and one of the hexagen/MX explosives (RDX, | HMX) [1]. Luftwaffe used Trialen 105 in their 250kg bomb [2], | which is TNT, RDX, and aluminum powder, so lets go with that. | TNT is fairly stable, *MX are quite stable, but picrates are | ornery. Over time they can break down and react with metals in | the casing. Metal picrates are much closer to primaries in | temperament. They are also far more shock sensitive, which is | why (somewhat paradoxically) it's safer to evac and burn these | old bombs out, then to try to relocate it. There are other ways | in which unstable residues can be formed, not just picrates | (e.g. TNT can release NOx over time and form metal nitrate or | fulminate salts). You also have all the impurities from | synthesis (such as DNT and mixed nitrates). Over time this | forms a witches' brew of mixed nitrates that's typically much | more sensitive. Sensitive, as in, workers have died when their | shovel struck the bomb casing. There would not even be time for | the _clunk_ sound to make it to their ears before obliteration. | Or even just...nothing [4]. Hug your loved ones, folks. | | (side note: this is why if you ever find old orndance, or old | bottles of certain chemicals e.g. ether, you should stop | immediately and don't try to move it, just evacuate and call a | hazmat team) | | What most likely happened is the old bomb corroded and formed a | pocket of these unstable salts, and when the flame hit it, a | DDT occurred which set off the bulk charge. | | This is all well known to ordnance disposal folks, hence the | sandbox cover and evacuation radius. [3] | | Edit: tweaked wording after some more research into bomb | composition. | | P.S. I updated my notes on explosive composition. Turns out WW2 | US/UK favored picrate mixes far more than the Germans (who | favored TNT, RDX, ammonium nitrate, and aluminum), and as a | result, allied bombs from this period are much more unstable | than German ones. Also note, forming unstable species isn't | necessary for DDT: e.g. the Halifax and Beirut explosions were | caused solely by burning ammonium nitrate. It's just much, much | harder to get a pile of AN to go off than rando metal nitrate | salts. | | [1] | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_explosives_used_duri... | | [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SC250_bomb | | [3] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150922-these-nazi- | bombs... | | [4] https://www.dw.com/en/wwii-bomb-self-detonates-in-german- | fie... | traceroute66 wrote: | > in my obviously completely inexpert opinion, I wouldn't have | recommended | | I'm pretty confident they had some of the best experts on the | case. | | The UK has some of the best bomb-disposal minds, the IRA | campaigns on the mainland during The Troubles ensured that. | Just look it up on wikipedia ... double-digit number of bombs | planted in some years ! | goodSteveramos wrote: | Over a thousand or about 60% of the Provisional IRA kills | were British soldiers. So yea they got hit hard. I haven't | seen any evidence that they actually improved their bomb | disposal techniques though. The British Army kept getting | successfully bombed into the 90's. | twic wrote: | Does defusing a brand new IRA bomb involve the same set of | skills as defusing a decades-old Luftwaffe one? I would have | thought it's a rather different problem. | dsfyu404ed wrote: | IED has progressed immensely since the internet and the best | bomb disposal techs are the people who'd been doing it | recently and they're mostly in the middle east. | kayodelycaon wrote: | Doesn't seem all that nuts to me. C4 can be burned without it | going bang. | fbdab103 wrote: | The rules must be different for 80+ year old explosives? | Presumably every possible decomposition reaction is now | present. | Philip-J-Fry wrote: | Clearly the experts _do_ recommend it in certain circumstances. | samus wrote: | Some explosives, like C4, can actually be safely burned. To set | them off, a detonator is required. Explosives from WW2 probably | have similar properties, as it makes producing and handling | huge warheads a much less dangerous activity. Of course, there | might always be impurities in the material that makes them | behave much more unstably, both from production and because of | corrosion and chemical degradation over the ~80 years that have | passed. | NoZebra120vClip wrote: | [flagged] | mshockwave wrote: | No I believe it's a common approach. Without the fuse dynamites | are inert and you can burn it without exploding it, since they | are actually flammable. Of course, lots of steps can go wrong | like incomplete removal of the fuse. | [deleted] | ranger207 wrote: | For safety while handling, many explosives need both heat and | pressure to explode. Famously, soldiers in Vietnam would burn | C4 for heating water. However, explosives tend to become more | sensitive over time, and there's always a chance that the | explosive filler in this bomb wasn't an insensitive explosive | anyway. Given the chance of it exploding when burned versus | exploding when jolted, it probably made sense to burn it in | place | grogenaut wrote: | There's a lot about explosives and explosives removal that is | not obvious. Even more so because those techniques are | classified both to keep other weapon designers from designing | around your diffusal methods, but also to keep from elevating | the "game" as it were of the public. | | There's also a ton of stuff you don't learn until years later | like how some old explosives cause salt crystals to form that | mess everything up more. | https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150922-these-nazi-bombs... | | What method would you have used in your common sense guess? The | old cut the red wire method? Chat gpt says "call the police and | leave the area" as the most effective bomb diffusal method. The | experts then "diffuse the bomb" as the next step. So there you | go. | spoils19 wrote: | [dead] | dannyphantom wrote: | I'm reminded of the time I heard of the story of a US town | blowing up a beached whale with TNT that didn't go as planned | in high-school when we were on unit discussion the mechanisms | of explosives. I think the teacher was there(?) as a kid and | it... _ignited_...an interest in explosive engineering in him. | blihp wrote: | While you possibly heard about a different story, this one | has made the rounds over the years: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34 | golem14 wrote: | Glad no-one was insured. Here's, on a lighter note, a Bob Newhart | recording on Bomb defusing: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArMf6xbMsLI | WalterBright wrote: | The last Civil War casualty was just a few years ago when someone | was fooling around with an intact shell. | yetanotherloser wrote: | I'm assuming you mean American Civil War... and I wouldn't rush | to call it done, some of those sieges involved a lot of big | ammunition and there might be more out there. Impressive it was | dry enough to go up, though, gunpowder soaks up moisture fairly | enthusiastically. | WalterBright wrote: | Yes, the American Civil War. | phist_mcgee wrote: | If it was the english civil war then that would be even | more exciting. | jpgvm wrote: | Crazy how much energy that sand wall was able to dissipate. | 1letterunixname wrote: | I'm invoking Godwin's law: Always the damn Nazis! | [deleted] | gr4yb34rd wrote: | what happens if they send germany the bill for damages? | Eduard wrote: | Then Germany sends back their own bills? | | Cologne has a found WW2 bomb every other week or so, e.g. look | at this non-exhaustive press release list: https://www.stadt- | koeln.de/basisdienste/suche/?keywords=Bomb... | | Most can be disarmed, but some have to be exploded in a | controlled manner. | | Nowadays I get pushed safety notifications to my phone (KATWARN | app) wherever I am in Germany that they found a WW2 bomb | nearby. | | The app then shows the location and evacuation information. | ben_bai wrote: | Exactly, we (germany) find lots of old WW2 bombs and smaller | ordinances on our own terrain per year. | | "Controlled" detonation of old bomb in Munich 10 years ago: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrFydaWOTpI | jchw wrote: | You know, I think there might be a reason in particular why | Germany would be responsible for WW2 era bombs in England and | not vice versa... | | (Not entirely serious here, but still.) | boomboomsubban wrote: | Yeah, let's levy all sorts of punitive measures on them. | After all, they were responsible and they lost! Nothing bad | could happen from that approach. | jchw wrote: | Well, other than the fact that it's too late now, that | does actually sound like what happens after you lose a | war, regardless of who's responsible. | samus wrote: | The issue is settled now. Germany paid huge war | reparations after WWII until the 1990s. | | Apart from that, many of these explosives are | malfunctioning bombs that were supposed to go off when | firefighters and rescue personell are at the site. Such | devices are pure malice; the defense argument can't | justify them. | ssnistfajen wrote: | You can't randomly levy all sorts of minor nuisance onto | somebody after they've conceded and signed a bunch of | treaties largely drafted by the winning side meant to | settle this. That's just a great way to self-sabotage | your diplomatic reputation. | jchw wrote: | > signed a bunch of treaties largely drafted by the | winning side | | That's what I was referring to. That's why it's too late | now. | | Wasn't that complicated, but sometimes people on HN read | what they want to read. | kataklasm wrote: | That's what the winning nations in WWI did and it was one | of the single biggest reasons for WWII happening. | kayodelycaon wrote: | Yeah, but doing that caused a second world war. Hopefully | we learned something from that mistake. | Retric wrote: | It's a popular theory that caused WWII, but it's likely | WWII would have happened either way. At a minimum Japan | wasn't impacted. | dahdum wrote: | > Then Germany sends back their own bills? | | That's a bit like Russia sending Ukraine bills for destroyed | military equipment. | snickerbockers wrote: | That probably will happen if the ruskies win. | suddenclarity wrote: | Not really considering Britain and its allies declared war | on Germany. You can argue they did it for the greater good | but it's not like your example. | [deleted] | hutzlibu wrote: | There is an argument, of who started it. | | But there is (or rather was) an greater argument, of not | wasting anymore time, with historic fights over and over | again and rather move on and look forward. | | All the great conflicts are getting solved that way and not | with bean counting. | simonh wrote: | Do you think a former colonial power really wants to go down | that road? | boomboomsubban wrote: | Unless you want it sent in the Compiegne Wagon, they send all | their bomb disarmament bills back to the UK and they have far | more of them. | kitd wrote: | The guys who built that sand wall deserve a raise. Saved severe | damage to property and possibly a few lives. | Haga wrote: | [dead] | dhosek wrote: | Wild, that they're still finding these almost 70 years later. | There used to be a British series about finding unexploded bombs | that was shown on PBS in the 80s or 90s called Danger: UXB about | the teams that would defuse the unexploded bombs that would be | found in England. | Lev1a wrote: | Here in Germany, all kinds of unexploded crap from WW2 is quite | routinely found, and not just during building/renovations. | | I heard in one documentary following the defusing/safe | detonation of one of these that the "KBD" (one of the | shorthands for the civilian ordinance disposal services) is | estimated to have to work in this field for at least several | decades considering the (potential) amount of explosives still | hidden in the ground and water. Especially the water is another | hot topic since after WW2 the Allies just dumped huge amounts | of explosive ordinance and chemical weapons into the North and | Baltic Seas which are slowly corroding under the water and | releasing their toxic innards into the ecosystem(s). | | A bunch of people employed by the ordinance disposal service | have died doing their work over the years (relevant portion | cited): | | "Despite a professional and extremely cautious approach, deadly | accidents caused by uncontrolled explosions occur time and | again when defusing bombs. In the years 2000 to 2010, eight | explosive ordnance clearance personnel were killed in action, | [11] three of them alone in the detonation of a 500 kg Allied | bomb on June 2, 2010 in Gottingen." -- https://de-m-wikipedia- | org.translate.goog/wiki/Kampfmittelr%... | this_user wrote: | In the part of my city that I live in, they find, on average, | about one bomb per year that necessitates an evacuation so it | can be defused. Usually, these are found during construction | work. | Sakos wrote: | One was found in my city this week. Another one a few weeks | ago. They're surprisingly common. | Tomte wrote: | My German town of 70000 inhabitants has a WW2 bomb evacuation | roughly every 4 years, in my experience. | | Many hundred to a few thousand people have to leave their | houses, police and other emergency services from the whole | state come into town, the whole day or evening is full of | sirens. | | The local paper is running articles about the two or three bomb | specialists as if they were old friends you haven't seen for a | while. | | Also when you're building the permit explicitly states that | anything found that looks like munitions must be left alone and | the town's crisis center be informed immediately. Around here | (but that's because the area was heavily bombed) they routinely | check aerial photos before issuing the permit. They even ask | old people who lived around here if they remember bombs falling | around the plot that's about to be built on. | ddejohn wrote: | Here's a chilling reminder of the _first_ world war, | https://orionmagazine.org/article/the-forbidden-forest/ | | It's pretty devastating to think that we're still dealing with | the fallout of WWI a hundred years later. | terramex wrote: | There is forest not far away from my parents home (central | Poland) where people were constantly finding unexploded bombs. | Finally, in 2012 a team was hired to clean it. It took them 9 | months and they found "tens of thousands" of missiles, bombs, | munitions etc. | | https://dzienniklodzki.pl/tony-bomb-i-pociskow-z-ii-wojny-sw... | | If you are into First World War memorabilia sometimes you don't | even need metal detector to find shrapnel balls in local | forests if you know where to look. | samus wrote: | Makes one wonder how much of it has found its way into | illicit hands. Yes, it's more dangerous to the owner than to | any target at this point, but if you know what you're doing | it could be a source of explosives that is otherwise | completely untraceable. | Eisenstein wrote: | I think it would be more cost and time-effective to just | make explosives than go around searching for them, hoping | they don't blow up when you dig them out, then concealing | them and bringing them back to wherever your base of | operations is. Explosives are (somewhat) easy to make, it | is setting them off reliably without blowing yourself up | that is difficult. | [deleted] | greedo wrote: | A munition with a fuse is nothing terrorists etc would | want. There's no way to know when it would explode, nor any | way to control it. | Merad wrote: | I'd imagine most people with the knowledge to safely handle | these types of explosives already have access to modern | weapons grade stuff (black market munitions, etc.). For | your run of the mill domestic terrorist type it really | isn't that hard to make explosives (fertilizer and diesel | fuel), so probably not worth the risk of messing with | unstable 100 year old bombs. | jacquesm wrote: | It's not all that strange, a bomb that does not go off will | bury itself deep in the terrain, you need to go looking for | them somewhere between 8 and 12 meters deep! | | The expectations are that for the areas in NL where there was a | lot of bombing that it will take another 125 years before | they'll be able to declare the job done. | HarryHirsch wrote: | In Germany WW2 bombs continue to go off at a rate of 1/year. We | have to thank the Lord Lindemann and Bomber Harris for that - | the two promoted the frankly idiotic idea of carpet bombing | cities instead of armament factories, hoping that the | population would overthrow Hitler. That at least was the | official line. | | What these two war criminals did was mix delayed fuze explosive | bombs in with the regular incendiary and explosive load. The | idea was to kill firefighters and interfere with the | firefighting effort after a bombing run. Some of these delayed | fuzes worked too well and instead of 4 hours after release they | go off after 70 or 80 years. | nixass wrote: | I'm in datacenter business and I'm managing couple of | facilities around EMEA. German (Frankfurt and Berlin) sites are | notorious for sending out warnings that WW2 bombs were found in | vicinity and defuse plans. Having hundreds of kilos heavy bombs | near data centers makes my nerves tense. And I can only imagine | how many are still to be found | ta1243 wrote: | There was one about a year ago. | | It was about 50 yards from my bedroom window when I was at | university 20 years ago. Wierd to think what could be sat in | the field opposite my house right now. | samus wrote: | Bombing wasn't all that accurate back then. No GPS- or laser- | guided ammunition was available yet. Missiles were quite | experimental still and mostly used by fighter-bombers. Night | bombing adds its own difficulties. Also, both sides had to | deal with enemy air defense that was quite state of the art, | therefore they could rarely take their leisure time to target | well. | implements wrote: | I believe the CEP (Circular Error Probable - the area near | the aiming point the bomb was likely to hit with a 50% | probability) was something like 5 miles for night-time | high-altitude bombing during WW2. | fbdab103 wrote: | A cursory search of WW2 airplanes, I am finding plenty of | bombers that could operate at 500+mph (probably not when | fully laden, but still). Targeting anything when going at | that speed by little more than eye is still hugely | impressive. | sarnowski wrote: | In Germany it is mandatory to do a bomb search on a plot before | you are allowed to start building a building. | | Also photos of bomb drops are used to check where bombs might | have fallen and not explode. | | https://www.spiegel.de/international/business/firm-uses-hist... | dghf wrote: | Parts of northeastern France are still off limits because of | stuff left over from the _First_ World War. Official estimates | are that, at the current rate of clean-up, it will take | somewhere between 300 and 700 years to clear the area | completely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_Rouge | albertopv wrote: | Few years ago, in a town not far from Venice, digging a new | road underpass, they found a completely unknown underground | warehouse filled with nazi arms. That was quite exceptional, | but still nowadays WW2 bombs are found all over Italy, millions | were dropped. | implements wrote: | Great series. Towards the end they were showing the early | experiments with steaming high explosive from bombs too risky | to move. I guess this "burn the explosive out" method is the | current evolution of that. | kitd wrote: | They had to dredge Portsmouth Harbour to accommodate the new | QE2-class aircraft carriers. | | Almost every week it seemed work had to stop and the area | evacuated because they kept pulling up unexploded ordnance, | Portsmouth being the home of the Navy and therefore very | heavily bombed during WW2. | docdeek wrote: | It's a reasonably regular thing here in France. It's the sort | of thing they'll find anytime there's a new building going up | with underground parking beneath it - the contractor digs, | finds a bomb, the army cordons off the quartier for a few hours | and sorts it out. Makes the local news but mainly because it | either obstructs traffic or is close to a school that needs to | shut for the morning. | dmitriid wrote: | There are Red Zones in France that are deemed unsuitable for | human habitation _since WWI_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_Rouge | euroderf wrote: | > the contractor digs, finds a bomb | | What does this mean ? Someone is operating a backhoe and | there is a loud KLUNK and the operator looks at what it hit | and says to him/herself jeez I'm lucky to still be alive ? | docdeek wrote: | I guess it is something like that, but don't know for sure. | I live in a major urban area so if they find an unexploded | bomb it has probably been built over a couple of times | since it was originally dropped. The most recent near me | (about 800 meters away) was in 2021 and the most | interesting thing about it for me was that it was a US | bomb, not a German one. | | http://www.uniindia.com/news/world/people-france- | wwii/233733... | Xylakant wrote: | Most bombs are found by actively surveying the site, often | using old aerial photography. But random finds happen and | sometimes with deadly consequences. In 2014 a bomb exploded | during earth works, the backhoe operator was killed | https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/unfall-baggerfahrer-bei- | bombe... | emmelaich wrote: | For Belgian / Flemish farmers, yes. | samus wrote: | Pretty much, although in that case they would indeed be | very lucky to not set it off. I guess it is more likely | that they find it when they put down the soil they just | excavated. I would like to be educated about this, but I | feel they should pretty much expect these things and check | with a metal detector before excavating the next layer of | ground. | VLM wrote: | I'm sure it happens, sometimes. | | Most of the time, the lawsuits for digging up someone's | fiber optic cable or natgas line are so staggering that | there are various "free" one-call services that mark buried | objects. The public utilities all pool resources to fund | it, so it's free in the sense that your utility bills pay | for it. I know a guy who had a gig doing that and in | addition to locate devices that are kind of like a giant | telco wire toner, they do indeed sometimes walk around with | a literal metal detector. Doesn't work very well on | terracotta sewer pipe but those generally collapse in a | couple decades as I've found out the hard way. | | Anyway, yeah, a dude with a metal detector walking around | with a map of buried pipes in one hand saying "that's odd | there's not supposed to be a pipe here"... | Someone wrote: | Yes. I think it's more dangerous for farmers, though. They | have weaker machinery. Also, in parts of Belgium and | France, it's so common to find stuff that they carry small | explosives, including mustard gas grenades from World War | One, to the side of the road for later pickup by bomb | disposal experts | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest) | NikkiA wrote: | I remember a WW1 naval mine being washed up on the beach we | went to when I was a child, and being evacuated away into the | town centre. Sort of leaves a memorable event when your 'day at | the beach' is ruined like that. | | It was mid-70s, so Danger:UXB was still a couple of years away. | wcoenen wrote: | In Ypres, Belgium, there are still unexploded shells from the | first world war being unearthed. Those are now more than 100 | years old. Farmers there know not to plough certain areas of | their land. | | I think the most recent fatalities because of those bombs | occurred in 2014: https://www.bbc.com/news/world- | europe-26654314 | emmelaich wrote: | It's so common there that you just leave your unexploded | munitions at your gate for a pick-up. | | From Wikipedia .. | | > _In Belgium, Dovo, the country 's bomb disposal unit, | recovers between 150 and 200 tons of unexploded bombs each | year. Over 20 members of the unit have been killed since it | was formed in 1919_ | | Many more of the public (farmers typically) have been killed | due to the "iron harvest" | MandieD wrote: | We still have several a year involving sudden neighborhood | evacuations in the Nuremberg area, and I expect my son, age 2, | will still be dealing with this when he's an old man if he | stays anywhere in Germany. | | It's especially chaotic when one is found close enough to stop | traffic to and from the main train station, which is also a | nexus for the subways. | Xylakant wrote: | It's very common in Germany. August last year, Berlins disposal | site caught fire with 25 tons of not disposed ammunition on the | site. In winter, they blow up old ammunition every week - they | stop for the summer due to fire hazard. | smackeyacky wrote: | I loved that show when I was a kid. There is a ropey version | floating around on the ocean waiting for a curious buccaneer to | pick up. It still holds up. | oakesm9 wrote: | It's relatively common in the UK. According to this BBC | article[0] the Ministry of Defence deal with about 60 a year. | There was one washed up on the beach last month in Brighton | near me[1]. | | [0] What do we know about unexploded WW2 bombs? | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56243750 | | [1] https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2023/01/02/suspected- | bom... | thombat wrote: | The problem of dumped munitions in the Baltic is compounded by | it being a good place to find amber, which looks quite similar | to white phosphorus: | | https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/two-women-injur... | pengaru wrote: | Based on its discovery during dredging operations, I didn't | expect to see an onshore explosion. Did they move it before | attempting to defuse? | jameskilton wrote: | Article says they built a sand bunker around the bomb to | provide protection in case this happened. Sounds like the | bunker did its job! | ajb wrote: | In fact, they often just build a bunker and do a controlled | detonation - the bunker directs the explosion forces upwards, | where they don't harm anything. Not sure why they decided to | defuse this one. | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: | The seismic wave propagating through the ground can damage | nearby buildings. | hutzlibu wrote: | When it is easy, they defuse it. But usually it is all | rust, so controlled demolition is the preferred way to go | and usually always done, unless it is hard because of | sensible surroundings. But then the bomb gets transported. | implements wrote: | Nearby gas mains and harbour sea wall, I believe. | zimpenfish wrote: | Looks like it was maybe dredged up and that's a) how they found | it and b) why it's on the side there. | toomuchtodo wrote: | https://www.norfolk.police.uk/news/latest-news/communities-t... | | https://twitter.com/NorfolkPolice/status/1624133384069959682 | grogenaut wrote: | The piece of shrapnel the size of a bus that lands on the road | gives you a sense of the scale and is horrifying. At first I was | like "they let someone drive by that site while diffusing?!? ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-02-11 23:00 UTC)