[HN Gopher] US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada ___________________________________________________________________ US aircraft shoots down new airborne object over Canada Author : vinni2 Score : 53 points Date : 2023-02-11 22:25 UTC (34 minutes ago) (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com) | marcell wrote: | How much if this is just awareness bias, where the media reports | commonplace events that were previously ignored? | mancerayder wrote: | It's much more likely that the US government is wanting to tell | the press, leak to the press and get the spin cycle going. | There are spy events all the time, it's rare something gets | actually reported proportionally. | avalys wrote: | The response is certainly novel. The F-22 had zero recorded | air-to-air kills a week ago, and as of today has three. | | Whether these intrusions by unknown objects were commonplace | and previously had been ignored, is something I've wondered | about myself. | jpalomaki wrote: | Based on quick search, these have been happening also before. | | "an official revealed during a briefing on Saturday that the | U.S. was aware of three other instances during the prior | administration and one instance earlier in the Biden | administration that such an apparatus "transited" the country." | | [1] https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3844511-chinese- | balloons-... | POiNTx wrote: | I wonder what the cost is of sending such a balloon vs shooting | it down. If I was China I would be sending thousands of these. | It's not going to cause an all out war, but it does impose some | security threat which should be dealt with and can't be ignored. | digdigdag wrote: | I don't see how China would willfully continue send these | balloons without expecting a symmetrical escalation. Sure, they | managed to send a few relatively undetected until the past | recent weeks, but continued attempts would surely produce a | physical response from NATO states, whether that's sending | balloons of their own or overflying Chinese territory with | other aircraft, or increased signals intelligence operations. | interestica wrote: | >symmetrical escalation | | So like what, a similar but bigger balloon? | anigbrowl wrote: | More colors, unlike the boring monochrome available under | Communism | babyshake wrote: | "Mr. President, we must not allow a balloon gap!" | legitster wrote: | The last two objects shot down were not balloons. | infradig wrote: | Source for that? | Rebelgecko wrote: | The press conference yesterday, the WH spokesman explicitly | corrected someone who called the second object a balloon. | They're being a bit cagey about whatever it actually is | anigbrowl wrote: | This is the wrong question. Large militaries spend a fortune | anyway on firing ordnance anyway for training purposes. Doing | so in actually uncertain conditions is in many ways more | valuable than pre-planned exercises. There's also a political | attention focusing effect that allows rapid realignment of | priorities away from status0quo maintenance towards novel | readiness postures. So in strategic terms, it can be a net | benefit rather than a net cost. | | The flip side of this is adversarial observer(s) can learn all | sorts of things about readiness, detection networks, response | times, and tactical doctrine if well-prepared in advance to | acquire and integrate that information. | | Kinda wish I had a way to bet on the popularity of search terms | because I can practically hear the rattle of doctrinal articles | being furiously drafted at military institutions of higher | learning right now. | ALittleLight wrote: | I've not looked into it - but it's possible there is zero or | negative cost to shooting down a small number of balloons. | Imagine each pilot needs X hours of training or to fire Y | missiles in training. A couple balloon missions could just | replace training exercises, on net saving money because we | wouldn't need to setup the target. | abduhl wrote: | So the F-22 is now 3-0 against balloons? And people had the | audacity to call this plane a "failure"! | deadlydose wrote: | Would you prefer they only shoot down living targets or are you | just here for the snark? | drekipus wrote: | I think it was a joke dude. | vba616 wrote: | Who called the F-22 a failure? Are you thinking of the F-35? | | And anyway, isn't the F-22 due to be retired before the end of | the decade, so wouldn't debating its merits be beating a dead | horse? | none_to_remain wrote: | So how long has the CCP been sending these balloons and what | caused the USG to start talking about them? | colechristensen wrote: | There was a big one easily observed by ordinary people which | got news attention. This is why it's being talked about now. | [deleted] | userbinator wrote: | ...with Canada's permission; I think that should be said | explicitly. | le-mark wrote: | This is third shoot down we've been told about. First was the | Chinese balloon, second was the small less maneuverable vehicle | off of Alaska, and this third one in Canadian airspace. Feels | like some cold conflict we've been unaware of is heating up. | rgbrenner wrote: | I think China erred by sending such a large balloon that was | visible to the naked eye, causing the American public to demand | it be shot down. | | There's no hard rule about where national airspace ends and space | begins.. a lot of times they fly too high for planes to reach, | and under certain circumstances balloons are allowed through | national airspace.. so if the balloon isn't causing a problem | (like being a hazard to air traffic), people just ignore it... | weather balloons fly through our airspace all the time. | | But the US public saw this massive balloon and demanded it be | shot down, even if it caused an international incident.. and | luckily nothing serious happened. So now that the cat is out of | the bag, we're going to shoot down every balloon that hasnt filed | all of the required paperwork that enters out airspace that's | reachable by our aircraft... because 1) the public demands it; 2) | it'll become political fodder if the white house doesn't; and 3) | the international issue it generates is easier for the white | house to handle than the political criticism. | | If China never sent that large balloon.. they could have sent a | dozen more small ones and no one would have cared.. just like we | never cared about the 3 during the previous administration. | cebu wrote: | Jets seem to be eclipsing balloons as the dominant air combatant | FormerBandmate wrote: | Those Wright Brothers might be onto something. Wonder if you | could use their "aeroplane" to travel across the world | Multicomp wrote: | Surely this is not the world's slowest declaration of war? | | Whoever country is sending whatever these artificial objects are, | what can they possibly gain from this? | enra wrote: | Could be for observing the response of US. | | Russia did, and I guess still does, this a lot. Flying their | planes constantly in European airspace to see if what the | response is and also make it more normal occurrence. If they | one day attack it's harder to tell if this again one of those | random times or an actual attack | partiallypro wrote: | That is one of the reasons the US left the Open Skies treaty, | Russia kept breaking the agreement doing things like that | making the entire thing a handicap to the US. | hindsightbias wrote: | Trolling is cheap | drekipus wrote: | Trolling is a art | lsh123 wrote: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Genetrix | bullfightonmars wrote: | War? Chill with the historonics. Surveillance is not war. | bagels wrote: | Shooting missiles at aircraft can be though. | ajsnigrutin wrote: | I was joking in the other thread, that soon people will be | buying weather baloons and setting them off "for the lulz" | (youtube videos, tiktok, or whatever) :) | ALittleLight wrote: | I would watch a TikTok of "F22 shoots down my balloon." | zabzonk wrote: | usa vs canada! | | it has happened before. | option wrote: | are Canada's air forces non existent? | capableweb wrote: | Second paragraph: | | > Both Canadian and US aircraft were scrambled to track down | the object which Trudeau says was taken out by a US F-22. | | So clearly not. | Waterluvian wrote: | The article answers the question pretty early on: both air | forces scrambled fighters. | | NORAD is NORAD. They collaborate very closely and it becomes | kind of moot who specifically does what. | berkut wrote: | Their F-18s can't fly as high (without doing zoom climbs) as | the F-22 (which has very large control surfaces which help with | this). | Rebelgecko wrote: | Does the plane have to be at the same altitude to launch the | missiles? | arecurrence wrote: | It was shot down in the Yukon, jets from Alaska were likely the | closest to the target. | version_five wrote: | Canada contributes to North American air defence and it's F-18s | (to become F-35s) fly norad missions. Americans also | contribute, and obviosuly have more fighters. The article says | both countries dispatched planes, the americans ended up | shooting it down. It was over the Yukon which is very close to | Alaska so not surprising both were present. It would have been | a bit odd if it was over saskatoon or something | kzrdude wrote: | Compare with UK and Ireland, where Ireland indeed has a non | existant air force and UK a right to defend. | lom wrote: | In the article it said both forces scrambled to down it, but it | seems like the americans just got luckier. | Yoric wrote: | According to the article, they were also dispatched. | | I guess the US air forces received order to shoot earlier? ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-02-11 23:00 UTC)