[HN Gopher] Turning a TV set-top box into a Linux computer (2022) ___________________________________________________________________ Turning a TV set-top box into a Linux computer (2022) Author : todsacerdoti Score : 311 points Date : 2023-02-14 11:11 UTC (11 hours ago) (HTM) web link (zeus.ugent.be) (TXT) w3m dump (zeus.ugent.be) | devsda wrote: | It is impressive that that they were able to run linux without | making permanent destructive changes. | | Had a pogoplug that I was able to repurpose as a linux server for | some odd cron jobs and occasional backups. | | Assuming there are no such constraints to revert, what other | general purpose consumer devices are hack friendly and can be | turned into low powered linux boxes ? | trevithick wrote: | Check out the OpenWRT Table of Hardware.[0] It runs on all | kinds of stuff. | | [0] https://openwrt.org/toh/start | reginaldo wrote: | Take a look at | https://www.armbian.com/download/?device_support=Supported as | well | RobotToaster wrote: | Not exactly a consumer device, but old thin clients are cheap | and can be repurposed this way. | rbanffy wrote: | And the x86 ones are just PCs, so all the software bringup | part is trivial (which is why I managed to succeed at that | ;-) ) | thomastjeffery wrote: | It's an Android TV box. It was running Linux already. | | The main difficultly is usually unlocking the bootloader. | rbanffy wrote: | Getting an updated kernel is also an issue - the article | describes the device tree hacks they had to go through before | the machine was usable. | anthk wrote: | That's my issue with PostmarketOS and the Pocket Chip and | the 7" Android Netbook. | cassepipe wrote: | Almost all my friends in France have a old ISP modem router that | their former ISP did not bother getting their hands back onto | when they changed providers. | | I would love to repurpose them. Where do I start with ? | mk_stjames wrote: | This is a good article that covers the basics of looking for a | UART debug port that could be used as a way to get some low | level access to the router and go from there: | | https://www.riverloopsecurity.com/blog/2020/01/hw-101-uart/ | redfast00 wrote: | Try to identify a serial port on the PCB, connect a serial | adaptor to it (careful to get the pins and voltage right!) and | take it from there | | (Edit: or google the PCB board markings, maybe somebody already | did this) | mritzmann wrote: | Check whether an alternative firmware already exists (e.g. | OpenWrt or DD-WRT). | | https://openwrt.org/toh/start | Klasiaster wrote: | You can also get a similar board with that CPU here: | https://libre.computer/products/aml-s905x-cc/ | | It's optimized for mainline Linux and since u-boot supports UEFI | booting, you can just throw a downloaded Fedora arm64 image on it | and it will boot. | kelvie wrote: | Oh wow, if this had an M.2 slot i'd consider getting these for | my home k8s cluster (I use rpi4s which are hard to get and such | cause USB SSDs are flaky with power, and an odroid M1, which | has a pretty slow processor, but is otherwise perfect) | tracker1 wrote: | I've found the Argon power supplies (18W, 3.5A) for RPi are | probably the best option when using USB powered storage... I | swapped out the ones that came with my DeskPi cases. I have | tried several, an earlier model didn't have the inline | switch, which I don't really use but a nice to have feature. | | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0919CQKQ8/ | NayamAmarshe wrote: | +1 for Libre Computer. Le Potato is awesome. | wyldfire wrote: | I've had trouble sourcing reliable SD cards for these SBCs. I | have had the Le Potato, ODROIDs, RasPis. And they will | generally work really well 98% of the time. But I keep them in | a closet and I hate that I need to service them once a year or | so. I tried buying SD cards from several different retailers | and never got reliable results like from SATA SSDs (or even | rotating disks it seems). | | I eventually just bought an intel NUC which I saw as a big | defeat but also a remarkably practical solution. | NotYourLawyer wrote: | SD cards are flaky in general. | mikepurvis wrote: | Can you network boot a Raspi? This source seems to think so, | as of the 3B+, anyway: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/network- | boot-raspberry-pi-with... | | I guess it requires them to be on wired network, but if | they're in a closet, that's probably the case anyway. | Maursault wrote: | > you can just throw a downloaded Fedora arm64 image on it and | it will boot. | | I know what you meant, but I have known and loathed hardware | for which this would occur quite literally | Jasper_ wrote: | Oh hey, the Amlogic chips. I worked for a company that wanted | to turn an Amlogic S805 STB kit into a Linux computer. I think | the reason that it works fairly well out of the box is because | of some of the drivers we contributed to the effort :) | | Their display controller driver was fun to figure out. | https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/drivers/gpu/dr... | colordrops wrote: | Is there anything that can be done with unused Roku boxes? I have | a Roku Ultra 4k that I'd love to install open source software | onto. | granra wrote: | I made a similar write up on running mainline Linux on a similar | device a few years ago. Interesting read though. | | https://codedbearder.com/posts/mainline-linux-on-tx3-mini/ | NKosmatos wrote: | Vendors of STBs should unlock them so that we don't get so much | e-waste. | | These boxes are most of the times locked, whereas they could be | repurposed for many interesting uses (linux machines, android | boxes, educational devices...), now they will be thrown away, | remain in closets/garages or at the best be recycled. | | Tried to unlock my Vodafone TV box (Sagemcom DIW387 if I'm not | mistaken), but with no luck since there is no community to "hack" | it. | ChuckNorris89 wrote: | What about game consoles? | beebeepka wrote: | Good luck with that. I just don't see Arris or Sagemcom opening | up any time soon. These things are fairly locked down and | drivers are tuned for specific things. | | I spent a few years dealing with some of these STBs and yeah, | they make great little computers. Such a waste. Just like | smartphones, | vctrnk wrote: | I won't hold my breath. From the article: | | > In theory, we might be asked to give this device back. In | practice, these devices are written off as soon as they're sent | to customers. | | In my country, there are various ISPs with the same OEM boxes | from SDMCtech. They went to the trouble of asking manufacturer | to put a custom SDIO encryption chip onboard. If someone dares | to touch the firmware and/or included apps (not system, but | phone-home ones) the device automatically bricks forever. Not | even a NAND change fixes this, as the SoC/cryptochip/NAND trio | is somehow "mated" at factory. This derived in a literal | _invasion_ of these at flea markets, charity stores etc. Almost | none of them work, and if they do they are thoroughly locked. | | Some people like me had limited success tweaking things through | ADB. This box seems to accept a launcher change as long as the | original isn't erased. That works until the box updates itself | and bitches again about "pirating/unauthorized use", which is | quite frequent. | | Our ISPs are well aware of said e-waste, and still won't budge | their up-the-ass attitude. | bigape911 wrote: | Then when it's time to get rid of it, throw it back at their | door step since it doesn't belong to you | mschuster91 wrote: | Most of the common STBs have _piss poor_ performance because | their specs are barely adequate as providers don 't give a fuck | about anything except BOM cost. | avidiax wrote: | They are really excellent at decoding video, as you would | expect. They can't run a 4k UI generally, however. | | I think it's holding the industry back somewhat. Having a bit | more power might make these boxes a home hub, a video calling | device, a gaming device, or at least a bit future-proof. | | One thing I like to do with Android TV devices is install | tailscale on them. At least I can ADB to them from anywhere, | and I can also setup the exit node. They use hardly any | power, so it's a nice solution to have access to your home | network or home internet connection. | larodi wrote: | It must be a low. Like self unlock after 513 boots | anonuser123456 wrote: | We aren't going to modify our security protocols so a handful | of people can mod their STB, sorry :P | NegativeK wrote: | Given how quickly support is dropped for consumer | electronics, not opening up access to them is unacceptable. | | And that isn't really addressing the fact that many companies | don't have the funding or the will to secure these devices. | BizarroLand wrote: | I mean, if nothing else when the device reaches EOL what | would it hurt to release a bootloader unlock? | NotYourLawyer wrote: | "What would it hurt" is the wrong question. The question | is "how would it profit them"? | | If it wouldn't, they have zero incentive to do it. | Clamchop wrote: | I think the desire to repurpose obsolete electronic | appliances is probably far too small to make a meaningful | dent in e-waste. Not much to be done at scale with random, | idiosyncratic, and underpowered SBCs. | | I don't know for sure but I do strongly suspect it. | allenrb wrote: | Excellent work once again. Would have loved to find something | like this when I was a student... back when computers occupied | entire desks. | | This seems similar, if not identical, to the free streaming box I | told Xfinity they could keep. Might go revisit that decision now. | almost_noone wrote: | I work for an ISP and my role is pretty much to have the TV STBs | become ewaste as late as possible (trying my best to do my part). | Currently our security is pretty bad [1] (that's why I'm posting | from a throwaway account), but I have a mainline Linux booting | off a USB storage without touching internal storage (with very | little changes). I plan to fix those security issues, and make | this boot-from-usb official within few months. We're far from | thrashing those units, but when we will, it'll be too late to | open them up. | | [1] related to security of user private data | jeroenhd wrote: | That's great, be sure to post your story here on HN when you've | finished the project! | tinus_hn wrote: | Has anyone ever tried to find out how one can connect to the TV | servers and how the DRM works? In the EU you'd be allowed to get | the keys from the provider. | avidiax wrote: | Sometimes it is just an app that knows where the streams are, | and sometimes there is a devices attestation certificate burned | into a TPM. The latter you are probably not going to hack, and | even if you could, the various pirate IPTV providers will | provide it for less cost if you value your time at minimum | wage. | bigape911 wrote: | Nice. Repurpose and reuse for when these things get thrown away | next year. | haolez wrote: | I've worked with STB hardware before and they usually suck. The | processors that I worked with were all from MIPS and it felt like | all useful instructions were removed, except for the bare basics. | Forget anything related to vectorization, for example. They were | painfully slow. | kasabali wrote: | These boxes generally utilize stock Cortex A53/A55 which are | quite good IMO. | avidiax wrote: | "Good" as in they can do anything slowly. A7x boxes won't | struggle. | n8henrie wrote: | I love these kinds of writeups, thank you! | | How did you determine what addresses to read things into? (the | chainloaded bootloader, then its initrd/ FDT / etc.). | redfast00 wrote: | Mainly by looking at what addresses the original bootloader | loads them into. The addresses don't matter too much, as long | as you load them into valid memory, since for most you pass a | reference to them anyway in later steps. | n8henrie wrote: | Thanks for your response! | | I'm a hobbyist that's been tinkering with uboot now and again | for years and can never figure out the right addresses for | stuff, or where / how to learn this. | | I assume this memory is subsequently released for the OS? Or | does the OS just work around it? | | Are you hobbling your runtime experience in some way if you | load to the wrong address? | redfast00 wrote: | author here, surprised to see this on HN. If you have any | questions, don't hesitate to ask :) | webdevver wrote: | Out of interest, what logic analyzer/logic analyzer software is | the author using? | c0wb0yc0d3r wrote: | Looks like sigrok[0]. From the screenshots, the logic analyzer | looks similar to a saleae clone. | | [0]:https://sigrok.org/wiki/Main_Page | unwind wrote: | ... and if you're not aware, Saleae clones are widely | available on e.g. Amazon, prices before shipping seem to | start around $7 in the US. This is possible since the | original Saleae is basically just a CY7C68013A [1] in a box, | and once others realized that cloning it was not difficult. | No idea about patents and so on here, obviously it's not OK | for clones to use Saleae's firmware without licensing it. | | I have one, it worked fine and is of course highly | recommended since the combination of a cheap way to get | signals into the computer and Sigrok's protocol analyzers | makes things really neat. | | [1]: https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/universal- | serial-bus... | retSava wrote: | I had a clone once upon a time, together with several | Saleaes and have recommended them to many many people, and | that clone was not accurate to me. While the chip and the | firmware was probably exactly the same as the original one, | the rest of the hardware was cost minimized and did not | work as well. I compared. The clone must have had | capacitive coupling or something, since signals was often | slightly delayed in unpredictable ways. Eg, a bit here and | there could be shifted early or late, which is kind of bad | when you work on protocols or timing. | [deleted] | redfast00 wrote: | (author here) this is indeed a Salea clone (one of the first | results when searching for 'logic analyzer' on Aliexpress), | with pulseview/sigrok as software. I try to use cheap tools if | possible, so it's more accessible for other people to | reproduce. | irsagent wrote: | It's impressive that a set-top box can be turned into a Linux | Computer. I feel with such a reality like that any device can | electronic device, if it has the right compents can run linux, | like how Doom is used as the base case. | emsixteen wrote: | Very cool, I wish I could do this sort of thing. | trevithick wrote: | Same here. I appreciate the projects like OpenWRT that make | this kind of thing possible for mere mortals like me. I flashed | OpenWRT onto an old Verizon combo DSL modem/router[0] and now | it's a VPN endpoint. I think the most complicated part was | uploading the initial firmware via TFTP. But it looks like you | can now just use the web interface, so it's even easier. Props | to the people who figure this stuff out and make it available. | | [0] https://openwrt.org/toh/actiontec/gt784wnv | qbasic_forever wrote: | Bootlin's embedded Linux class is fantastic and will teach you | how to do all of this--uboot setup, building a kernel and root | fs, etc. All of the materials for the class are free downloads | so if you're motivated you can read the slides and follow it | all yourself. I highly recommend it: | https://bootlin.com/training/embedded-linux/ | larodi wrote: | I love this article so much for some u known reason. Hacking | should be praised! Amen | pizzaknife wrote: | yes but have you ported doom to it's hand held controller? | donatj wrote: | I find "set-top" a funny leftover term from the age of CRTs. | There's no way to set anything on top of TV's these days. My | Kinect is still teetering atop it, but even that seems | precarious. | death916 wrote: | Really interesting writeup. Might be fun to try something similar | with some old devices I have. | moremetadata wrote: | Its on my bucket list of things to do, because here in the UK | there are plenty of TalkTalk Youview (Huewei DN372T) TV boxes | with 320GB hard drives that overheat and hang with the last | official update from Youview and despite asking there is no way | to revert these back. | | However with so many being available on Ebay et al and the HD- | less (DN360T) forcing people onto streaming services, I think | its only right to reprovision these to work in a hive networked | manner with external storage so people can store as much | broadcast footage as they have storage for, and stream from any | device. | | Being an early adopter of Media Portal over a decade ago, but | finding it impossible to secure windows even back then despite | only using it for satellite transmissions, I think Linux should | receive more attention now. | desimafiamanish wrote: | [flagged] | squarefoot wrote: | Very interesting writeup, bookmarked! I wish there was a | community willing to reverse engineer those very cheap DVR/NVR | video surveillance boxes and boards sold on Ebay and Aliexpress. | They have USB, SATA, some GPIOs and quite fast ADC chips on board | to achieve high definition video sampling so they could be | repurposed for various uses like SDR. They already run Linux | inside, although it is predictably tight closed, not updated | security-wise and often phones home to Chinese servers, so | reverse engineering them would be worth beyond mere hacking. | | Here's one of these boards, just search for "ahd dvr board". | | https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804455950963.html | detrites wrote: | Do you happen to know other spec's on these or similar? (Eg, | CPU type/speed, RAM etc) | xwdv wrote: | I struggle to think of what purpose a device that wasn't meant to | be a Linux computer would realistically serve beyond nefarious | goals. | pjc50 wrote: | Running Linux is the goal. It might be useful if you want to | drive a TV, say. And of course, since it already runs Android, | it's pretty close to "intended to run Linux" to start with. | hakube wrote: | less e-waste. If you cared enough about our planet, you'll know | that | felipesoc wrote: | I have an android TV using armbian with a nextcloud instance, | transmission, pydownloader, radarr and sonarr. I have another | running a quake 3 server. They are cheap raspberry pi | alternatives with a nice case and a very good power supply | using 12v instead of 5v, which is more stable. | severine wrote: | Vey interesting, does the remote also work? How do you asses | Linux compatibility of those boxes? | felipesoc wrote: | I just look for ones with a rk322x chip and use this image: | | https://forum.armbian.com/topic/12656-csc-armbian-for- | rk322x... | no_time wrote: | On the contrary, I struggle to think of "nefarious" goals. | jeroenhd wrote: | Many of these SBCs are programmed in stupid ways. For | example, there was a whole subforum on a popular Dutch site | that was shut down because it turned out the way ISPs make | you pay for premium channels is to... not encrypt them in any | special way and hide them in the front end. This was all | configured through a JSON file over an unencrypted protocol. | The whole project began because people wanted to record their | shows onto the disabled USB drive, and ended up exposing | trivial ways to get around subscription limitations. | | People immediately MitM'd these devices to get unlimited free | bonus stuff, and the forum was copyright struck to hell. | | These devices are programmed so badly that once you give any | user any modicum of control over them, you can bypass almost | every restriction your TV provider can think of. Modify one | or two files and you've got an excellent piracy box. | | Personally, I think this whole situation is terrible and I | think that it's up to providers to fix their shitty DRM, but | legally speaking these boxes don't become your property. | bornfreddy wrote: | Do you have the name of the forum maybe? | BoatyPrint wrote: | Plenty of applications for a Linux box that aren't "nefarious". | Maybe digital signage, or backup server, to name two. | ilyt wrote: | ...to not have to throw it into a landfill ? How's that not | natural conclusion to you ? It's in the title of article... | hbossy wrote: | Getting a cheap NAS. | rbanffy wrote: | Or, if you manage to get a dozen, it can become an | educational cluster where students can get hands-on | experience with managing computer clusters. | theodric wrote: | Entirely correct, although I question the value of | investing time with such a goal in mind when ex-corp | laptops, desktops, and thin clients are available, | inexpensive, likely more powerful, and require no | hackarounds to be serviceable Linux systems. I feel an | effort like this should be enjoyed for its hack value, | rather than for any potential practical purposes. | rbanffy wrote: | If you get one model up and runnning, getting a couple | dozen of them up and running is easy. 2GB and 4 cores per | node is not too shabby either. My last Pi-based cluster | has Pi Zero's as nodes, with single puny core with a very | minimal 512MB per node. | dsr_ wrote: | I don't know about supported video playback capabilities, but | being a settop box under your own control is pretty good by | itself. It can play back music, video, do light desktop duty -- | any place you just need one or two browser tabs, it will | probably work. | tenebrisalietum wrote: | This is an ethically neutral activity. The mere act of | transforming a device into such a computer doesn't add or | remove any nefarious goals, if you have those goals, you can | get another device intended to be a Linux computer and still | accomplish them (and it would be much easier). If the | transformation is done in contravention of the owner, it's bad, | but it sounds like from the article that the ISP has written it | off and in any case, they say they are doing this | nondestructively. | jrm4 wrote: | I'd argue 100% ethically positive; it's the sprinkling of | unnecessary devices by companies that's the negative. | redfast00 wrote: | (author here) We use the device instead of a Raspberry Pi, not | for anything too serious: we attached it to a screen and have a | small server running with an API where you can write single | pixels into the framebuffer (a bit like /r/place) | joezydeco wrote: | Ironically, the Raspberry Pi started as a failed set-top box. | rbanffy wrote: | I always thought that SoC was wildly popular. | joezydeco wrote: | It is, because Broadcom had a surplus of them and | couldn't get anyone to adopt it for a streaming device. | So an enterprising Broadcom FAE decided to turn it into | an "educational" Linux desktop device. | | The "wildly popular" part came when people realized BRCM | was dumping these boards cheaper than any existing Linux | SBC at the time. The educational angle is long gone. | rootbear wrote: | The educational angle is far from gone. The Raspberry Pi | Foundation handles that part of it now. | | https://www.raspberrypi.org | | I would agree that most of the Pis sold are not used for | education, but that doesn't diminish their importance in | that area. | Symbiote wrote: | The education part continues. Raspberry Pi continue to | make teaching materials, run training etc. I think the | focus is the UK. | rbanffy wrote: | Pretty much any device like these (as well as most modern TVs | with network ports) can probably be turned into computers or, | at least, X terminals. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-02-14 23:00 UTC)