[HN Gopher] Facebook Announces Meta Verified
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Facebook Announces Meta Verified
        
       Author : chirau
       Score  : 133 points
       Date   : 2023-02-19 16:03 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.facebook.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.facebook.com)
        
       | nitwit005 wrote:
       | Feels like this is the wrong approach for Meta, given that
       | they're paying creators in various ways now. Turning around and
       | demanding them send some money back to get protection against
       | impersonators is going to seem very unfriendly.
        
       | dazc wrote:
       | I can't wait to verify my account with Govt id!
       | 
       | Then I remember my account is blocked because I failed at the
       | opportunity to do this for free.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | "It's free and it always will be" disappeared back in 2019.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2019/08/27/facebook-
       | no-l...
        
         | joe_the_user wrote:
         | But is this a bad thing?
         | 
         | It's signal they'll stop bothering the anonymous Facebook
         | accounts my friends have. Why not let those few people wanting
         | Facebook verification have it?
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | It also costs money to buy ads on facebook. So not everything
         | facebook offers has been free for quite some time.
        
         | j-bos wrote:
         | These bold slogans seem to be pretty good canaries, like when
         | google removed "don't be evil"
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | Google never removed "don't be evil", but that's a super
           | common urban legend, because Gizmodo ran an (incorrect) story
           | headlined "Google Removes 'Don't Be Evil' Clause From Its
           | Code of Conduct". You can just go look at their code of
           | conduct and see that this is false.
           | 
           | (I don't care, and don't think "don't be evil" really ever
           | meant much, but urban legends drive me a little batty.)
        
             | SamvitJ wrote:
             | Confirmed: search for "don't be evil" in the Code of
             | Conduct here: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-
             | of-conduct/. It's there at the end.
        
               | detourdog wrote:
               | I never thought it was part of the code of conduct. I
               | thought it was the answer to the business plan question
               | before they decided on advertising or maybe their motto.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | msm_ wrote:
             | Interesting. I was even at Google when they "removed" it, I
             | remember the internal uproar about "removing" it, and I was
             | sure it was removed. Of course now you reminded me that the
             | problem was "just" changing the "main" slogan to "do the
             | right thing", and it was not actually removed. Funny how
             | memories work.
        
           | HaZeust wrote:
           | To be clear, they moved it to the bottom - but I still can't
           | comprehend why they did that. It did no favors to the public
           | relations, LOTS of senior staff resigned, there was no legal
           | binding to it - so they even could have just kept it there at
           | the top and just... not mean it. Maybe I need perspective.
        
           | tpmx wrote:
           | "imgur will never have ads"
           | 
           | Still kind of upset that that immediately obvious lie back in
           | back in 2009 paid off.
           | 
           | I was there in the background noise in that first reddit
           | post, saying the obvious.
           | 
           | It would not surprise me one bit if it turned out that the
           | reddit founders manipulated that one post to make it go the
           | right way.
        
             | everdrive wrote:
             | At least they didn't claim "imgur will never get bought out
             | by another company and require tracking javascript to even
             | view images."
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | imgz.org will definitely never have ads.
        
               | tpmx wrote:
               | But it isn't free. Edit: I see a hustler got me to flog
               | his paid saas. Apologies.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Yes, that's why it'll never have ads.
        
           | BurningFrog wrote:
           | I don't think that was ever an official statement?
        
             | culturestate wrote:
             | It was at the very top of Google's corporate code of
             | conduct until[1] 2018.
             | 
             | 1. https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-
             | of-do...
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | It's still in it in 2023.
               | 
               | https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/
        
               | culturestate wrote:
               | This is how that document _used to_ begin:
               | 
               |  _> Preface
               | 
               | "Don't be evil." Googlers generally apply those words to
               | how we serve our users. But "Don't be evil" is much more
               | than that. Yes, it's about providing our users unbiased
               | access to information, focusing on their needs and giving
               | them the best products and services that we can. But it's
               | also about doing the right thing more generally -
               | following the law, acting honorably, and treating co-
               | workers with courtesy and respect.
               | 
               | The Google Code of Conduct is one of the ways we put
               | "Don't be evil" into practice. ... _
        
               | motbus3 wrote:
               | Ubiased here is a bit off isn't it? Since they put
               | results of ads to some queries, this is a kind of a bias
               | :thinking:
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | This article is apparently a clickbait urban legend.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34269029
        
               | wcarss wrote:
               | I mean, if you read that article, it makes it pretty
               | clear that the phrase is retained in the final sentence,
               | but was once much more prominently placed. It doesn't
               | claim that the phrase is completely gone -- it has the
               | same information Wikipedia has. Are you claiming that
               | article and Wikipedia are both just making things up
               | here?
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | The headline of this article is "Google Removes 'Don't Be
               | Evil' Clause From Its Code of Conduct". There's really
               | not much to argue about here. Read headline, pull up code
               | of conduct, command-F search, done.
        
               | wcarss wrote:
               | Google removed the "don't be evil"-preface, which I
               | suppose technically isn't a "clause"...
               | 
               | So really, you're implying the article claims something
               | more extreme than it _actually_ claims... which is a
               | little like starting your _own_ clickbait urban legend -
               | how meta!
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | The article opens:
               | 
               |  _Google's unofficial motto has long been the simple
               | phrase "don't be evil." But that's over, according to the
               | code of conduct that Google distributes to its employees.
               | The phrase was removed sometime in late April or early
               | May, archives hosted by the Wayback Machine show._
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | Google never removed it.
           | 
           | https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/
        
             | corobo wrote:
             | It used to be their motto. It's now a footnote in their
             | code of conduct.
             | 
             | Don't Be Evil was relegated to a weird basement desk and
             | had its stapler taken off it back in 2018.
        
         | basch wrote:
         | I'm shocked they didn't pull the "we said Facebook would be
         | free, not meta checkmarks."
         | 
         | Imagine being able to rename your company to exempt yourself
         | from the terms you wrote, because your new name isn't in the
         | terms.
        
           | kps wrote:
           | Renaming the company is extreme, but Steve Jobs at Apple
           | renamed projects at least twice (Mac OS 7.7, Rhapsody) to
           | back out of commitments.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | dgudkov wrote:
         | "It's free and it always will be" disappears together with
         | zero-interest rates.
        
         | KKKKkkkk1 wrote:
         | Remember when Twitter instituted a forever policy of remote
         | work that lasted a whole of two years?
         | https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/01/twitter...
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | That was Jack Dorsey. Jack Dorsey doubled down on the policy
           | for his other company, Square. Some of their leadership and
           | highest ranking employees are fully remote. I'd bet against
           | this policy ending.
           | 
           | Elon canceled WFH for a multitude of reasons. Mainly to
           | encourage willing employees to leave and those that remained
           | to work harder.
        
             | moomin wrote:
             | If you still believe people work harder in the office I
             | don't know what to tell you.
        
               | chillbill wrote:
               | There are some very valid reasons why it should be
               | encouraged to work from the office, and yea they do
               | include productive hard work, I've heard this first hand
               | from both bosses working in big and small companies and
               | from employees. The group that appreciates work from
               | office and has noticeable productivity improvement is new
               | recruits and fresh grads that move to get a job, as they
               | need new friends, and if there's no office culture and
               | work colleagues to have lunch with or at least the
               | occasional AW, then they get lonely, unproductive and
               | they eventually leave.
               | 
               | For older more mature people who have families it's an
               | amazing gift to be able to work from home, for some it
               | absolutely isn't. The point is that you can decide how to
               | run things in your company and try to be flexible.
        
               | motbus3 wrote:
               | It is true in my opinion, but most bosses I heard just
               | think employees are cheating their work and this is
               | something I do not agree.
               | 
               | I've worked for a company who had to go full remote due
               | to covid and productivity increase a lot because people
               | were not being bothered by senseless interruptions and
               | calls.
               | 
               | When asked why move back to the office in a meeting where
               | people could ask "anything", the CEO just said he doesn't
               | believe in working from home and he does not want that
               | for the company but provided zero reasons for his
               | beliefs. :/
               | 
               | Also commuting is such a pain that it makes me feel
               | depressed. I took about 2h each leg and sometimes it was
               | even worse. I usually get so much earlier in the office
               | to avoid not being late and I had to simply not do
               | anything as I could never leaver earlier too :(
        
               | greenthrow wrote:
               | Your comment tells me you don't know what you are talking
               | about. I have been working in tech for more than two
               | decades, tons of that in offices and tons of it remote.
               | Different people thrive in different environments. Some
               | people who are very productive remotely will struggle in
               | an office. Some will do both in either. Some do better in
               | offices. Not every office is the same either. When Google
               | first started introducing the kind of office benefits
               | they did in the early 2000s people said silly things not
               | unlike your comment; those benefits "spoil" employees,
               | there's no way they will have good productivity when they
               | make the office like a resort hotel, etc.
               | 
               | Don't be a reactionary. Think about things more and
               | you'll be right more often than you are now.
        
               | lumb63 wrote:
               | > Not every office is the same.
               | 
               | This has been my experience as well. Also, not every
               | company is the same. When COVID hit, I started working
               | remote, and the company was very poorly equipped to deal
               | with work from home. Communication disappeared and
               | culture died out. I stopped being interested in my work
               | and left the team, and later, the company.
               | 
               | Fast forward to my new company. It's remote-first. More
               | than half the workforce is remote and it saves the
               | company what I'd imagine to be a pretty sum in office
               | supplies, rent, etc. I'm hybrid now, but 90% of the time
               | is remote. I'm much happier now than in my old remote
               | experience. I don't have to commute and I haven't missed
               | out on any of the perks of an office because of the
               | company structure and techniques, and a few other
               | decisions by myself.
               | 
               | The things I think are game changers:
               | 
               | - Slack, or similar. My old company used Teams. It was
               | slow and buggy and I disliked it. Having channels is a
               | game changer for remote work! Being able to have channels
               | with many people creates a place for banter and common,
               | shared experiences. That makes a remote team feel much
               | more personal.
               | 
               | - Having a good home office. My first stint with remote
               | work, I was ill prepared. I had no desk and was working
               | at the dining room table. I had no good peripherals, no
               | good chair, etc. Not a good environment. Now I have a
               | standing desk, a mouse and keyboard I enjoy, nice
               | monitors, a good chair, a separate area of the house
               | dedicated to work. This has made a huge difference in my
               | mindset. I'm "at work" by being in an area of my home I
               | reserved exclusively for work, and I'm comfortable in it.
               | I dread going into the office where the water doesn't
               | taste as good, the air is stale, there's little natural
               | light, I have limited control over my environment. I'm
               | now much more productive at home. As a bonus, I get back
               | an hour (or more, depending on traffic) of my day, and
               | save myself all the accompanying stress of commuting.
        
               | mulmen wrote:
               | In office employees definitely work harder.
               | 
               | They spend time commuting. They suffer constant
               | distractions. They deal with physically relocating in the
               | office multiple times per day. They experience physical
               | discomfort in an environment they cannot control.
               | 
               | What in office employees don't do is deliver more value
               | per minute to the company because they waste energy just
               | trying to exist in an office.
        
               | wayeq wrote:
               | yeah but... the free snacks...
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | elvis10ten wrote:
               | Why do we have to go completely for or against something.
               | There are pros and cons to both. Situations where one
               | trumps the other. Why can't we have both?
               | 
               | > What in office employees don't do is deliver more value
               | per minute
               | 
               | Isn't this contextual?
               | 
               | > They spend time commuting
               | 
               | Also this. Commute can be productive especially in cities
               | where people can safely cycle to the office.
               | 
               | > They suffer constant distractions.
               | 
               | Lots of the folks I meet in the office currently, have
               | more distractions at home.
               | 
               | > They experience physical discomfort in an environment
               | they cannot control.
               | 
               | "home" is not the opposite for many people.
        
               | lkrubner wrote:
               | People take a lot of time off when they work from home. I
               | am as guilty of this as anyone. People tend to focus more
               | on work while they are in an office. Also, it is much
               | easier for managers to organize the work when the people
               | being organized are within line-of-site. The pattern I've
               | seen emerge at New York City startups is:
               | 
               | 1. the leadership and most important employees meet at
               | the office 3 to 4 days a week.
               | 
               | 2. less important employees are allowed to work from home
               | 
               | The workers in group 2 are in direct competition with
               | outsourcing firms in India, Vietnam, Brazil, etc. If you
               | are just an average frontend programmer, and allowed to
               | work from home, there is a good chance that your work can
               | be sent overseas. So workers in this group are seeing
               | more downward pressure on their wages, and have a more
               | precarious position.
        
               | TheCleric wrote:
               | I call bull on this. I work HARDER at home. When there's
               | no clean delineation between where you work and where you
               | live it's a lot easier to work late or on the weekend
               | because your commute is all of 10 seconds.
               | 
               | This is absolutely unhealthy behavior, but my WFH
               | problems have never been because I'm slacking off since
               | I'm at home.
               | 
               | People with integrity will work. People without integrity
               | will find ways of avoiding work. Location doesn't matter.
               | Hire or work with the former; avoid the latter.
        
               | cat_plus_plus wrote:
               | Well, I am not going to waste time I spend in the office
               | on working. Not after the pandemic and realizing human
               | society can be taken away at blink of an eye. Have an
               | hour and a half lunch, talk to teammates about their
               | lives. Work is for home.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | I didn't say that.
               | 
               | Also, think about those on an H-1B. Their options are
               | limited.
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | Some do and are able to manage their time very well;
               | others cannot and without the structure of the office are
               | left floundering and apt to not be available for
               | communication for prolonged periods...
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Ad supported _and_ paid. Oh joy
        
       | tarkin2 wrote:
       | I guess it could fight against fake profiles manipulating the
       | online social commons
        
       | blobster wrote:
       | We already do identity verification in the real world, it's
       | called government issued IDs.
       | 
       | There should be opt-in OS-level identity verification based on
       | zero knowledge proofs and tied to your government-issued digital
       | ID. This also solves issues like preventing minors from accessing
       | adult sites, etc.
       | 
       | I should not have to verify with 1000 third parties and hand over
       | my personal data and then hope it's handled properly and doesn't
       | get leaked. We have zero knowledge proofs and we can get OS
       | makers to make this seamless for us.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Yes... but then you have the same arguments that are used to
         | claim Voter ID is voter suppression...
        
           | epgui wrote:
           | Not if it's opt-in and not required to access critical
           | services.
        
             | lmm wrote:
             | People want to use this for critical services. I already
             | found I couldn't contact my country's passport agency
             | except by Twitter, for example.
        
             | mertd wrote:
             | Then what is the value proposition?
        
           | gonzo41 wrote:
           | In other countries, they exist, to vote you just register
           | with the independent voting commission, and on the day they
           | confirm your registered address and give you the paper forms.
           | No voter id required.
           | 
           | The OP can verify with proper ID and be safe. The gov just
           | needs to regulate that rather than keep copies of all the
           | originals. They just have something like a checkbox, where
           | you're either verified or not and a human / smart system is
           | involved and no record is permanently kept of the docs.
           | 
           | Anyway, I don't anticipate this feature working out for meta.
        
         | mgraczyk wrote:
         | This uses a government ID for the actual identity and most of
         | the "verification". I'm not sure what more you're looking for?
         | Facebook can't use zKP because existing government IDs don't
         | support that.
         | 
         | And there is no OS in this case, it's a product feature for
         | Facebook that allows users of Facebook to be told that Facebook
         | verified the account's government ID.
        
         | nibbleshifter wrote:
         | There should be none of those things.
         | 
         | Fuck that.
        
         | Traubenfuchs wrote:
         | The EU now has eIDAS. All it lacks is widespread adoption.
        
         | everdrive wrote:
         | >There should be opt-in OS-level identity
         | 
         | This will be the end of a lot of things, to include the
         | internet we grew up with in the 90s. It's holding on by a hair,
         | but you can still visit personally-owned and hosted websites,
         | and not run any non-free code.
        
         | wfbarks wrote:
         | * Tim Cook has entered the chat *
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | Is this in reaction to, or because of Twitter? Many seemed yo
       | have denounced the paid verification feature, but does this
       | signal that it's something people will pay for?
        
         | ibejoeb wrote:
         | Perhaps neither. The post indicates that it's rolling out in
         | Australia first. Australia has been, for years, working toward
         | tying social media use to authenticated identity.
         | 
         | Imagine paying for this...
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | Likely something they've been working on way longer than it was
         | a thought at Twitter.
        
           | kjksf wrote:
           | Uber re-wrote their 1 million loc mobile app in 3 months.
           | 
           | How much time should it take to implement a subscription
           | payment?
           | 
           | With all the respect to Facebook scale, more than 1 month
           | would be a failure.
           | 
           | I'm not saying that Facebook did it because Twitter did it,
           | but the timing of it seems more than a coincidence and they
           | are using the same justification for doing it as Twitter.
           | 
           | It's quite likely that Twitter doing it successfully overcame
           | the risk aversion that large corporations are oversupplied
           | with.
           | 
           | https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/uber-app-rewrite-yolo/
        
             | dawnerd wrote:
             | Facebook isn't a start up, thinks are not moving as quick
             | as you think. The actual development probably went fast but
             | the PM meetings, legal, etc all take a long time. I bet
             | this has been in the works in some form since Apple's
             | crackdown on tracking.
        
         | kumarvvr wrote:
         | The format of pages, content structure and reach of facebook,
         | linked to real world profiles and people, means that having a
         | verified account makes a lot more sense.
         | 
         | Twitter is an announcement platform. Facebook is a discussion
         | platform. Comments, replies to comments, no content length
         | limit, ability to upvote, etc.
        
         | DethNinja wrote:
         | It is valuable for business administrator accounts but I don't
         | see the value for the average user.
        
       | qualudeheart wrote:
       | Elon has proven a point.
        
       | kundi wrote:
       | We had a case where our ad account got hacked through an agency
       | that was managing it and set up ads for enormous amounts, which
       | drained all our funds within 2 days. After praising and trying to
       | get it solved and refunded, after 6 months we still haven't come
       | to a conclusion with Facebook's poor customer service. During
       | that time we were unable to use their platform to recover the
       | funds on the ad accounts. I'm not sure how they plan to improve
       | the customer service, but this attempt just feels like pouring
       | more frustration to our team with Facebook.
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | You know I hope this is the start of finally normalizing paid
       | subscriptions for social networks, because it means eventually
       | someone may try to build a social network funded purely by
       | subscriptions rather than ads, and then we might finally have
       | simple timelines again that aren't focused on maximizing user
       | views and retention through algorithms. The result can be a less
       | enraging and addicting experience for users.
        
       | zh3 wrote:
       | Let's see - on Facebook the rules were always you had to use your
       | real name.
       | 
       | Now they're charging us for it?
        
       | mcraiha wrote:
       | Will this generate any meaningful revenue for any company? AFAIK
       | Twitter has 300 000 global paying users. And I assume you would
       | need few million paying users before this has any meaningful
       | effect. https://www.theinformation.com/articles/musks-twitter-
       | has-ju...
        
       | abzolv wrote:
       | What about the verified status can change, that merits a
       | recurring charge versus a once-off charge? Can you suddenly morph
       | into "not you"?
        
         | tmikaeld wrote:
         | Other accounts flagging you for not being you, is a very real
         | thing on FB.
         | 
         | I've had relatives loose two account into limbo, because of
         | this and yes - even after being "verified" on one of them.
         | 
         | I guess the logic is that if someone took over your account, so
         | you're no longer you.
        
           | abzolv wrote:
           | Why would that merit a recurring charge? In other words, what
           | ongoing expense is incurred by the company to display a
           | particular icon next to your name?
        
             | tmikaeld wrote:
             | You'd only be verified as long as you're paying, stop
             | paying and that account is no longer verified.
        
       | toastal wrote:
       | I liked the Keybase model better for verification. Why do we need
       | monthly fees?
        
       | rejectfinite wrote:
       | HN this is not for you. This is for celebs and inportant people.
        
       | gowld wrote:
       | What a creative, innovative, idea that could only come from the
       | rare genius that deserves a $multi-billion ownership stake in the
       | company.
        
       | tleilaxu wrote:
       | Who on earth would look at what Twitter are doing right now and
       | think "Hey, we should copy that! That seems to be working well!"
       | 
       | Facebook... apparently.
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | It is worth noting that Meta is also in a financial death
         | spiral, just like Twitter, so the comparison doesn't just stop
         | there.
         | 
         | They've made a massive gamble on pivoting to VR to save them
         | from irrelevance but that seemingly has already flopped.
        
           | poopypoopington wrote:
           | "Financial death spiral"
           | 
           | $120B in revenue, $20B in profit last year
        
             | Someone1234 wrote:
             | That's a 4.47% decline year-over-year. Stock -15% YOY vs
             | -5% for the SP500.
             | 
             | Unless they pivot soon, they're in deep trouble, with a
             | declining user base (particularly young people) and a
             | consistent loss in ad revenues. One big problem Meta has is
             | they went "all in" on a VR bet, that isn't working.
        
               | rvz wrote:
               | "deep trouble"
               | 
               | In 'deep trouble' with 2 billion daily active users on
               | each platform: Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp,
               | resulting in the stock doubling in less than 3 months of
               | screaming about the chorus of the end of times for Meta.
               | 
               | I guess betting against HN is somewhat a profitable move
               | when everyone was scared to buy the stock at $88.
        
               | jaapbadlands wrote:
               | What makes you say "isn't working"? VR and the Metaverse
               | are long term bets, they're not meant to be working yet.
               | Far too early to write off as failures.
        
           | xiphias2 wrote:
           | Ads are more important in an infinite money low interest rate
           | environment.
           | 
           | Now that they are coming back a closer to normal, providing
           | normal services start to make a bit more sense for companies.
        
         | celestialcheese wrote:
         | It's almost as if the media narrative around Twitter might not
         | match reality.
        
           | Someone1234 wrote:
           | By all means go ahead and inform us on the actual reality?
           | This is what I had read:
           | 
           | > Overall, advertising spending by the top 30 companies fell
           | by 42% to an estimated $53.8 million for November and
           | December combined, according to Pathmatics, despite an
           | increase in spending by six of them.
           | 
           | Is that inaccurate and if so, why?
        
             | celestialcheese wrote:
             | The next sentence of that quote is pretty illustrative.
             | 
             | > Pathmatics said the previously unreported figures on
             | Twitter advertising are estimates. The firm bases its
             | estimates on technologies that track ads on desktop
             | browsers and the Twitter app as well as those that mimic
             | user experience.
             | 
             | > But the company said those estimates do not account for
             | deals advertisers may receive from Twitter, or promoted
             | trends and accounts. "It is possible the spending data
             | could be higher for some brands" if Twitter is offering
             | incentives, Pathmatics said in an email.
             | 
             | It's all speculation across the board - people want musk to
             | finally fail, and that possibility produces some delicious
             | schadenfreude. I am in this industry, and don't trust for a
             | second the estimates "Pathmatics" cites. Everytime I've
             | seen these types estimates on properties where I know the
             | real numbers, they are off significantly, in both
             | directions.
             | 
             | The numbers come from comps, and some sampling of Desktop
             | ad impressions and a twitter client. That's so far away
             | from what the real numbers are that it's just a fuzzy
             | guess.
             | 
             | 1 - https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/01/19/twitter-musk-
             | consum....
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | Twitter went from an unprofitable business to a very
           | unprofitable business. It may be comforting to call it a
           | "media narrative" but facts are facts. Maybe they can somehow
           | turn it around but I don't see how.
        
             | urmish wrote:
             | this is straight up false.
        
               | flangola7 wrote:
               | Which part? It's public knowledge that Twitter was barely
               | afloat before Musk. Since then most of the pumps
               | (advertisers) keeping water out of the ship have been
               | lost overboard.
               | 
               | Twitter's debt management alone is a billion dollars per
               | month.
        
               | hotpotamus wrote:
               | Got any financial documents about it that you'd care to
               | share? I'm sure they'd be of interest. I was also under
               | the impression that Musk blew a huge hole in the finances
               | of an already marginal business, but I don't think I or
               | anyone besides Twitter insiders actually have the numbers
               | now.
        
             | vishal0123 wrote:
             | Calling it "facts are facts" without any source does not
             | make it true.
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | You're right. I had something to say but didn't take the
               | time to support it.
               | 
               | https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/10/tech/twitter-top-
               | advertis...
        
               | vishal0123 wrote:
               | TBH, that is the definition of media narrative. I don't
               | see any dollar value in the report for twitter losses. It
               | could be that the market is flexible and those
               | advertisers were replaced by someone else(not saying that
               | happened, but the article is hardly proof of twitter's
               | losses)
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | I think it becomes troublesome when the data is
               | confidential and the company is private. Do we just not
               | talk about anything when we don't have hard data?
               | 
               | On the other hand, they are reporting a study that they
               | may have even paid for and don't actually share the
               | details of the study. So I certainly see your point.
               | 
               | On the other other hand, I think the "soft" signals like
               | Elon asking people to hit the like button for ads, or the
               | various reports of orgs pulling their ad campaigns
               | suggests that there is general distress. Which is what's
               | on my mind when I think it's more than a "narrative,"
               | which I tend to interpret as hand wavy "media bias" used
               | to explain away anything that doesn't support one's own
               | narrative.
        
             | cinntaile wrote:
             | That doesn't sound accurate. Considering all the lay-offs
             | and other cost cuts it should have gone from very
             | unprofitable to unprofitable.
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | Over half their advertisers have yet to return. Might be
               | why Elon is personally promoting ads.
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | Source?
               | 
               | Edit: 625 out of 1000 top companies advertising in sept
               | weren't advertising in first weeks of Jan.
               | 
               | https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/10/tech/twitter-top-
               | advertiser-d...
        
               | jackson1442 wrote:
               | They're also saddled with billions in interest payments
               | on Elon's debt now, so markedly worse off than before.
        
           | micromacrofoot wrote:
           | what is the reality? pretty hard to find anything positive to
           | counter how much ad revenue twitter has lost
        
             | lagniappe wrote:
             | [dead]
        
       | CharlesW wrote:
       | I personally like this. However, the pricing is bonkers and
       | demonstrates how out of touch Zuck is.
       | 
       | "It's one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?" -- Lucille
       | Bluth
       | 
       | Sorry Meta, I'm not giving you $576/year (family of 4) ongoing.
       | Validate that I am who I say I am for a one-time fee of $99, or
       | $19/person/year, and I'm in. I'll even pony up $29/person/year
       | for a "no ads" plan.
        
       | shp0ngle wrote:
       | It would make sense as a 12 usd one-time payment. But as an
       | ongoing service, it's laughably overpriced.
       | 
       | 12 dollars per month??? for a blue badge? Really?
        
         | digianarchist wrote:
         | Thousands of rubes doing just that for Twitter Blue. Zuck would
         | be foolish to not take advantage of the same market.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | hypothesis wrote:
         | They absolutely should charge it if people are willing to pay
         | that much.
        
           | shp0ngle wrote:
           | Well let's see who actually pays 12 dollars ongoing monthly
           | payments for a blue badge.
           | 
           | that's more than basic monthly netflix
        
         | impulser_ wrote:
         | I don't think the target audience of this service is regular
         | user, but instead they are targeting companies and influencers
         | who would definitely pay this price to protect their brand and
         | image on FB and Instagram.
        
       | mr90210 wrote:
       | When I left Facebook in 2016/17 and later Twitter in 2020, I
       | didn't know how how much freedom and mental ease I was buying for
       | my future-self.
        
       | replicanteven wrote:
       | Shortsighted. If they're willing to stoop this low, they should
       | have started by selling multiple kinds of badges for smaller
       | monthly amounts.
       | 
       | $0.99/mo for emojis. $1.99/ to show your support for various
       | causes. $3.99/ for sports teams. $4.99/ for ID verification.
       | $0.49/ of your red cross badge goes to earthquake survivors.
       | 
       | Like virtual hats, but for social media.
        
         | anonuser123456 wrote:
         | "I am not a bot/intelligence services construct/foreign troll
         | masquerading as an citizen etc.". Is a pretty valuable service
         | for the network.
         | 
         | Right now it's a property not advertised to network
         | participants. But in the near future you might seem the
         | following above unverified accounts posting about controversial
         | topics
         | 
         | "Careful. This person could not be identified. They may be a
         | bot or falsifying their identify to misrepresent opinion"
         | 
         | At which point, the value of verification goes up. Maybe.
        
           | janalsncm wrote:
           | It's not a valuable service to me though. All of my friends
           | have verified me in real life. An extra badge doesn't add
           | anything.
           | 
           | Twitter is different because I assume most people haven't met
           | their followers IRL.
        
             | anonuser123456 wrote:
             | I have family members that have hundreds of people they've
             | never met on their friends lists. Some of those
             | personalities are obvious scammers/grifters etc. But aging
             | people have diminished capacity for detecting that kind of
             | stuff.
             | 
             | Example:
             | 
             | My MIL is 'friends' with a prominent US based surgeon who
             | is also a leading founder in a biotech company. He
             | convinced her to buy stock in said biotech company, when
             | its price was peaking. Of course it was a classic pump and
             | dump and the value plummeted a few weeks later.
             | 
             | Would identity guard rails have saved her? Possibly not.
             | But telling her "if you don't see a verified XYZ they are a
             | scammer" might move the needle.
        
           | wombat_trouble wrote:
           | > "I am not a bot/intelligence services construct/foreign
           | troll masquerading as an citizen etc.". Is a pretty valuable
           | service for the network.
           | 
           | It is valuable to Facebook to maintain a healthy pltform. But
           | is it really worth $15 a month to you to broadcast this to
           | others?
           | 
           | Unless the culture of the platform shifts to a point where
           | non-verified accounts are considered second-class, the only
           | reason to pay this is basically as a status symbol. In which
           | case, I think the tiered approach makes more sense. And maybe
           | "Facebook Gold" for people who want to pay even more for a
           | badge....
           | 
           | Twitter had their checkmarks established as an artificially
           | constrained status symbol you couldn't buy with money... and
           | then, under Musk, they altered the terms of the deal by
           | saying you have to pay, but you get tangible perks in terms
           | of platform features, visibility of your content, etc. Unless
           | Facebook wants to do that, I can't see people paying this
           | much on their own...
        
             | anonuser123456 wrote:
             | Personally, I wouldn't pay Meta because their platform is
             | already beyond salvageable IMO.
             | 
             | But in principle, I think networks should charge their
             | users and provide services, and identity is the most-in-
             | need service the internet lacks.
             | 
             | Will users pay for identity? Probably not, but one can
             | dream.
        
       | neverrroot wrote:
       | Would be glad to pay, if my privacy will be respected, and I
       | won't just be now paying money for the same stuff. Actually I'd
       | rather more companies transition to paying models, instead of
       | spying on me however way they can to ensure they can make money.
       | Would you also? Or would you rather have it free regardless of
       | what that implies?
        
       | benatkin wrote:
       | If it was fair it wouldn't verify itself.
        
       | hownottowrite wrote:
       | Maybe just fix targeted ads and get back to making money?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | DueDilligence wrote:
       | .. yawn. next.
        
       | thinkingemote wrote:
       | Genius to announce this after Twitter. Musk gets all the flak and
       | takes the weight so they can do the same thing and everyone will
       | think it's cool as they are used to the idea and Zuckerberg is
       | nothing special to get inflamed about as he keeps himself quiet.
       | 
       | Probably standard PR tactics than genius upon reflection!
        
         | kevincrane wrote:
         | ...does anyone think this is cool?
        
       | nojs wrote:
       | I think the bigger news is they're offering "priority customer
       | support" for a monthly fee. Imagine if this became a trend among
       | other big tech companies.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | Imagine that. No wait, lots of tech companies that have
         | customers (i.e. one way or another directly paying for stuff)
         | offer "priority support" (i.e. 1 on 1 with an actual human).
         | It's expensive and eats i to your profits but it's necessary.
        
         | anonymousab wrote:
         | In an ideal world that could be nice. In practice the allure of
         | ignoring support problems under the guise of "the automation
         | says there's nothing we can do" is far too high, and eventually
         | pervades all manner of tech company user accounts unless
         | legislatively punished.
         | 
         | As we see with paid Google customers, business and otherwise.
        
         | kevinventullo wrote:
         | I don't really care about my Facebook account but I would
         | absolutely pay $100+/yr to ensure I have some recourse should I
         | ever be locked out of my gmail account.
        
           | devnullbrain wrote:
           | Why not use another email provider for <$100/yr?
        
             | kevinventullo wrote:
             | Honestly, momentum.
        
           | amf12 wrote:
           | This already exists btw. Have you checked out Google
           | Workspace Individual subscription?
        
             | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
             | I have heard about many gotchas that appear if an account
             | is "upgraded" to Workspace. No longer on the happy path, so
             | a variety of services and features no longer work the same
             | as a free account.
        
         | StrLght wrote:
         | I believe it's already a thing with a lot of companies.
         | 
         | I worked at a company that had restaurant delivery app, very
         | similar to Uber Eats / DoorDash (but not in the US). ~10% of
         | top spenders there got priority support.
        
         | pleb_nz wrote:
         | I think it might already be. A few times in the last month I've
         | stumbled across sites with this offering when
         | joining/subscribing (the names escape me now) and everytime I
         | thought who would pay for that? Now you mention it clicked
         | maybe it's a new thing?
        
         | logicalmonster wrote:
         | This is an interesting sneaky way of making social media a
         | subscription service for many, but I'd think the benefits for
         | any business seriously using social media are probably good
         | enough to justify the fee. That said, why offer 2 different
         | payments for web and mobile? This just introduces too much
         | confusion for an entirely new concept like this.
         | 
         | Anything that gives people some possibility of human contact in
         | the event of a problem is a welcome baby step forward, but this
         | isn't really good enough. If Meta screws up something with
         | blocking/banning your account and you're not subscribed, are
         | you still completely unable to get in touch with anybody, for
         | any price? These are the people slipping through the gaps that
         | I worry about.
        
           | ShrimpHawk wrote:
           | >That said, why offer 2 different payments for web and
           | mobile?
           | 
           | Mobile (Google Play, Apple App Store) takes a cut from
           | transactions made through them. Companies don't want to lose
           | money. Companies have been doing this for as long they could.
           | It is not anything new.
           | 
           | https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-
           | developer/answ...
        
       | neogodless wrote:
       | ... and eliminates all ads from your user experience?
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | I think it's for content creators / official accounts, so
         | basically people want to advertise or do public relations
         | moreso than consumers.
        
       | DueDilligence wrote:
       | .. yawn. next.
        
       | wcerfgba wrote:
       | Can anyone steelman an argument that this move won't make
       | verification and blue ticks effectively useless for determinig
       | the authenticity of accounts?
       | 
       | My initial thought is that this creates an incentive for the
       | companies to have more permissive verification processes, since
       | that would make sales easier and reduce costs.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | neogodless wrote:
       | Previous related submissions:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34859919 1 hour ago (22
       | comments)
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34858691 3 hours ago (77
       | comments)
       | 
       | Both point to Facebook post by Mark Zuckerberg:
       | 
       | > Meta Verified -- a subscription service that lets you verify
       | your account with a government ID, get a blue badge, get extra
       | impersonation protection against accounts claiming to be you, and
       | get direct access to customer support.
        
         | jasongill wrote:
         | > extra impersonation protection against accounts claiming to
         | be you
         | 
         | My tech-ignorant father-in-law who has 3 friends on Instagram
         | had a fake profile created that was identical to his and
         | matched his username except 1 minor character difference. I
         | reported it to Facebook and the reply was "We get so many
         | requests, we haven't had time to review yours, so we are
         | closing it out. Sorry."
         | 
         | Funny that now you can pay $12/mo for them to... maybe not
         | ignore reports of impersonators?
        
           | wongarsu wrote:
           | "we were overwhelmed with requests, so now we charge money to
           | process them" sounds reasonable. It also aligns incentives:
           | Facebook now has a reason to have enough support people to
           | respond to requests from paying customers, otherwise they
           | might stop paying.
        
       | mmastrac wrote:
       | It's cute, but the joke's on them: I don't really use Facebook
       | for anything but marketplace these days. Cutting social media use
       | has been a great boost for my mental health.
        
       | Imnimo wrote:
       | Maybe I'm behind the times, but isn't the whole deal of Facebook
       | that I've chosen to be friends with these people who I know in
       | real life? Why do I need them to be verified?
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | You don't.
         | 
         | This is for the Lady Gaga's and Elon Musks of facebook.
         | Followers want to be able to know if they are following the
         | real deal, and the real deal wants to be certain that they can
         | be differentiated from the fakes.
        
           | wg0 wrote:
           | There would be 20,000 such Stars paying 10 dollars a month.
           | Than what?
        
           | Imnimo wrote:
           | I must not understand how Facebook works anymore. I didn't
           | realize you can follow people, I thought you just sent mutual
           | friend requests.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | bsaul wrote:
       | Anyone else find this announcement totally pathetic ?
       | 
       | In what world does anyone care about meta impersonation anymore ?
       | Does anyone make public announcement on meta beside meta
       | employees ?
        
         | jonathankoren wrote:
         | Worse yet, it's clear they have no ideas or understanding why
         | this was a bad idea at Twitter.
         | 
         | It's just copying for copying sake.
        
           | anonuser123456 wrote:
           | Was it a bad idea at twitter? Or was Musks handling of the
           | whole situation just crap?
           | 
           | If Musk had made an impassioned case about why, and engaged
           | peoples concerns in a grown-up way it might have gone better.
        
             | bionade24 wrote:
             | It certainly was the handling and the strategy how they'd
             | introduce it. First, they obviously should haven't
             | repurposed an existing badge. Im my opinion, setting a
             | lower price in the 1st three months and openly
             | communicating that the price will increase a bit seems like
             | a choice to get quick adoption. 8$/month is too high when
             | people can't experience the value of it yet.
        
         | labrador wrote:
         | > In what world does anyone care about meta impersonation
         | anymore?
         | 
         | My 84 yr old mother does. It really annoys her when someone
         | steals her profile picture, makes an account in her name and
         | starts sending friend requests to her friends. I told her
         | Facebook could fix this easily but they don't want to.
         | 
         | Now I can tell her they want to charge her to fix it.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | Verification won't even fix it, anyways. People taken in by
           | the scammers aren't gonna go hunting for a verification
           | badge.
           | 
           | "You are already friends with someone by this name" warnings
           | would be a lot more helpful.
        
           | hackernewds wrote:
           | are they scammers?
        
             | gowld wrote:
             | Yes. Or, if the target person is famous, it could be used
             | for defamation or harassment.
        
             | labrador wrote:
             | It's happened to my mother several times. Nearest I can
             | tell, they want to see her non-public posts for advertising
             | purposes and this is why Facebook doesn't fix it. More
             | money for them. It causes her a significant amount of
             | distress, so simply put, Mark Zuckerberg abuses the
             | elderly.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | advisedwang wrote:
           | Will this actually solve this? Her account may be verified
           | but that doesn't stop another unverified account from
           | spoofing her.
           | 
           | The announcement mentions "impersonation protection against
           | accounts claiming to be you" but I'm skeptical how advanced
           | that's going to be. It can't stop name reuse (because real
           | people have the same name). And preventing someone creating a
           | second account with the same image would be perfectly
           | possible today, with no verification system, so I doubt
           | that's it either.
        
             | anonuser123456 wrote:
             | It's a chicken and egg problem. You want people to start
             | ignoring unverified accounts and make the social
             | expectation that only verified accounts are good. But
             | people. won't do so until it's common.
             | 
             | Once established it's a great network effect. But networks
             | with effects are hard to start.
        
             | janalsncm wrote:
             | I don't know what goes into the verification system but if
             | it requires an ID that would prevent most amateur spoofs.
        
               | jjeaff wrote:
               | You are assuming that everyone the spoofer contacts is
               | going to know that grandma is a verified user and so this
               | can't be her. Of course, the vast majority of people
               | would not give it a second thought and so this would have
               | no effect on the spoofing problem.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | We may find it pathetic for a different reason - when everyone
         | was so down on Elon taking over Twitter and how he was running
         | it into the ground, and now Meta is saying actually that's not
         | a bad idea, in fact it's a great idea and we're going to do it
         | even to the point of taking a huge blow to our ego
        
         | anonuser123456 wrote:
         | Asking people to pay for services is always a good thing. If
         | Metas only revenue is information peddling, expect the lowest
         | common denominator product.
         | 
         | And anything pushing internet identity forward is also good.
         | With the rise of chatgpt verification of "human" is going to be
         | important.
        
       | agilob wrote:
       | So I get to be verified ONCE, but pay monthly for the same thing
       | I have to do to unblock my hacked account? No extra benefits,
       | like fewer ads and sponsored tailored content?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | Quite desperate of these companies to charge their most important
       | assets, the influencers/publishers. $10 is the cost to run their
       | own website with complete editorial freedom, and if people want
       | to follow them, get an RSS reader. The whole advantage of
       | FB/twitter is that it 's cheaper and broader.
       | 
       | And this model doesnt even scale up. FB makes ~$60 per user/year
       | which is comparable. If people start verifying en masse, they
       | dont have the capacity to really verify the users identity, that
       | the users haven't sold their accounts etc etc. They are shooting
       | their moneymaker here
       | 
       | What i like about these payment schemes is that they put a real
       | value on the company, based on what customers are willing to pay
       | for the service, not the nebulous advertising return. The results
       | of these programs should also inform investors about the true
       | value of the companies.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | weberer wrote:
       | >which will let users verify their accounts using a government ID
       | and get a blue badge, as it looks to help content creators grow
       | and build communities
       | 
       | Useless bullshit. I was hoping for a paid model where you can get
       | rid of ads for good. Instagram has become unusable over the past
       | year as they shove ads into more and more places. Its like
       | reading a book and every time you turn the page, you have a
       | random chance of getting smacked in the face.
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | I don't have an Instagram account, so please excuse my
         | ignorance, but I was under the assumption that a lot of content
         | on Instagram is "sponsored content" anyway? So you're looking
         | at ads anyway?
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | Depends how you curate your feed.
        
             | Schiphol wrote:
             | Is there a way to curate away those sponsored posts?
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Sure. Unfollow when you see one.
        
               | caskstrength wrote:
               | Are you from 2012 or something? Instagram has been
               | showing promoted posts from accounts I'm not following
               | for ages.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Those are just ads. The posts up thread making a
               | distinction between ads and sponsored content I take to
               | mean influencers shilling company products/services
               | directly in posts outside of the Facebook ad network.
        
               | schrodinger wrote:
               | I definitely see posts from accounts I'm not following.
        
               | lancesells wrote:
               | Don't follow people with more than 5000 followers.
        
           | kylecordes wrote:
           | Instagram used to be mostly photos from people I knew or
           | followed or whatever. Nowadays it is 95%
           | ads/sponsored/influencer content. Almost pointless to visit.
           | But I think this might be a result mostly of people not
           | posting photos as much.
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | You can turn off their recommendations (stuff you don't
             | follow) 30 days at a time. I do that and only see stuff
             | posted by my friends, and ads.
        
           | technion wrote:
           | The irony is that the most promoted company on Facebook isn't
           | paying for those ads with sponsorship.
           | 
           | I just opened Facebook and here's the top "suggested post".
           | Of course it's a "news" story, which is itself just a repost
           | of someone's Tiktok video. The Tiktok logo is prominently
           | displayed in the tumbnail.
           | 
           | https://imgur.com/a/YJoiR4A
           | 
           | In between all that content, is Facebook Reels. Most promoted
           | Reels are just reposts from Tiktok. There was literally a
           | "Content Creator" named "It's gone viral on Tiktok!" that for
           | a while was the most commonly promoted Facebook reel I would
           | see.
           | 
           | Edit: here's a screenshot of Reels:
           | https://imgur.com/a/OhVvbSf
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | profstasiak wrote:
         | problam with paying to stop ads is - the people most willing to
         | pay to stop ads are richer than average and meta earns more
         | from serving ads to them than they are willing to pay
        
           | blehn wrote:
           | YouTube made 28bn in ad revenue and probably somewhere in the
           | range of 5-10bn (and growing) in ad-free subscription revenue
           | last year, so it's clearly a viable model even if what you
           | say is partially true. That said, I'd argue that YouTube's
           | content is far more valuable than Meta's, and its ads are far
           | more intrusive, so the incentive to pay is much higher.
        
           | hyperbovine wrote:
           | That's a good point, I had never looked at it that way. But
           | here's my counterpoint: the people willing to pay to stop
           | seeing ads are the ones who are most hostile, and therefore
           | least susceptible, to online advertising. I've been online
           | since the early 90s and I could probably count on one hand
           | the number of times I've intentionally clicked on an ad.
        
             | playingalong wrote:
             | Still, I guess you are not that certain how many times an
             | ad has affected your subconscious and triggered some change
             | in your commercial decisions later on. The whole brand
             | awareness, etc.
        
           | freediverx wrote:
           | [dead]
        
       | fredgrott wrote:
       | Question, does this even matter?
       | 
       | We can already buy any fake press release...verification is just
       | a visual cue online akin to a press release indicating that its
       | value is now somewhat below zero.
        
       | kvgr wrote:
       | This will be retracted in 2 weeks.
        
       | manishsharan wrote:
       | Can we all take a moment to enjoy the sounds of social media's
       | business model imploding ?
        
       | danShumway wrote:
       | Notably, it appears you'll still see ads and get tracked.
       | 
       | Websites tracking their users and shoving ads in their faces
       | isn't really the "alternative" to paid services. It's something
       | paid services often do in addition to charging money, because
       | they're unwilling to leave any money on the table in any
       | situation, and you can always get more money by charging your
       | users _and_ harvesting their data.
        
         | rileyphone wrote:
         | The users willing to pay for a monthly subscription are much
         | higher value for ads than those who don't, simple as.
        
         | nixcraft wrote:
         | Elon Musk said there would be another subscription option for a
         | Twitter app like YouTube premium with zero ads for those who
         | can afford it. He said the price would be more than Twitter
         | blue, and work is in progress. The question is, how many
         | premium ad-free subscriptions can one person get? YouTube?
         | Tumblr? Twitter? Facebook? Insta? It could easily be $100 per
         | month.
        
           | danShumway wrote:
           | > He said the price would be more than Twitter blue
           | 
           | This is the other thing that pops up, in the rare instances
           | where services like this are offered, they're often pretty
           | inflated. It's notable that Youtube Premium comes with a
           | music service and it's impossible to de-bundle them. I
           | honestly think that part of the reason for this is to make
           | people think that ad-free services aren't economically
           | feasible.
           | 
           | I'm supposed to believe that the cost to Twitter to deliver
           | ad-free and tracking-free text streams is _higher_ than the
           | cost for Netflix /Google to stream unlimited HD video to all
           | of my devices on demand.
           | 
           | > The question is, how many premium ad-free subscriptions can
           | one person get? YouTube? Tumblr? Twitter? Facebook? Insta? It
           | could easily be $100 per month.
           | 
           | The thing is, what we're seeing is a push to monetize more
           | services through subscriptions anyway. Like, this is a better
           | argument if Twitter and Facebook aren't both pushing people
           | to give them roughly $10 a month anyway.
           | 
           | I think that the advertising industry and traditional media
           | companies have sold people on this idea that ads are somehow
           | magically keeping the Internet free and and it would collapse
           | otherwise, but if the trend continues and they all start
           | charging anyway, then...
        
             | wh0knows wrote:
             | > I'm supposed to believe that the cost to Twitter to
             | deliver ad-free and tracking-free text streams is higher
             | than the cost for Netflix/Google to stream unlimited HD
             | video to all of my devices on demand.
             | 
             | The price is not based on the cost to provide the service,
             | it's based on the current or potential revenue they can
             | bring in via ads. A company won't switch revenue models if
             | it means a 50% reduction in revenue.
        
       | amanzi wrote:
       | I don't understand why Meta and Twitter are charging a monthly
       | fee for this. Surely, it's in their best interest to have as many
       | verified users as possible on their respective platforms? Surely,
       | they want to get to the point where there are so many verified
       | people, that you don't trust anything that comes from a non-
       | verified user? I understand there's a massive logistical
       | challenge with verifying users across the globe, but there must
       | be a better way than charging a non-trivial monthly fee for the
       | "benefit" of being verified.
        
         | blastonico wrote:
         | I believe they have made some projections before charging for
         | it. So, I assume that only a small amount is willing to pay for
         | it.
         | 
         | There can be an explosion in the first months, but most people
         | will cancel the subscription when they realize how useless this
         | thing is.
         | 
         | I believe it tends to normalize in a curve not so distant from
         | what we have today.
        
       | college_physics wrote:
       | $12 per month and user for a "social experience" that still
       | tracks you and spams you is an insane amount.
       | 
       | If you consider that amount x 1000 for a very modest open source
       | fediverse instance hosting circa one thousand users, that is more
       | than enough to sustain admins, moderators and spare change for
       | some development.
       | 
       | The economic model of social media never made any sense and its
       | hard to see how it will sustain going forward.
        
       | baby wrote:
       | This definitely looks like it targets big pages and
       | personalities. If that's true then that's really cheap no?
       | 
       | If it targeted normal users like me (I pay for twitter blue, for
       | example) then it would let me do things like:
       | 
       | - set chronological newsfeed
       | 
       | - see less or no ads
       | 
       | That's it. That's enough to get me to pay
        
         | Joeri wrote:
         | Facebook gets about 50 billion usd / year of ad revenue in the
         | U.S. for 226 million mau. That boils down to about $18 / month
         | / user of ad revenue.
         | 
         | Is it worth $20 / month to get no ads and a chronological feed?
        
           | codq wrote:
           | No ads or tracking across all Meta platforms/pixels? I'd say
           | that's worth $20/month.
        
       | iamleppert wrote:
       | Imagine if Experian announced that you need to pay $11.99/mo to
       | make your credit report secure and to stop your identity from
       | being stolen and allow you to do something about it if it was.
       | Sound familiar?
       | 
       | The only thing that's going to stop every random company you have
       | an account with from trying to extort a fee just to make sure an
       | account is actually you is going to be regulation.
        
       | ssnistfajen wrote:
       | This is why I laugh when people here pretend that SV isn't also
       | built upon copying, stealing, and cheating.
        
       | jfengel wrote:
       | I wonder if this information will be available to people using
       | Facebook as single sign in.
       | 
       | Many sites are happy to have free accounts but only one to a
       | person. They want to avoid sock puppets and abuses like spam. If
       | you had to pay even a tiny bit it would drastically cut down on
       | it, but most users won't.
       | 
       | If everyone had a pay for account somewhere that they could use
       | elsewhere, others could piggyback off of it. (It might even be
       | worth a small fee to Facebook, for a service they provide very
       | cheaply.)
        
       | dagorenouf wrote:
       | Twitter iterates like a startup and Facebook steals what works
       | like a big old company.
        
         | zeroonetwothree wrote:
         | It's not like Twitter invented the concept of a paid
         | subscription
        
           | dagorenouf wrote:
           | they invented the concept of paid verification for a major
           | social platform and everybody dunked on them, now others copy
           | them. Kind of like when Apple removes jack port - people dunk
           | on them - then every competitor removes it too.
        
       | giancarlostoro wrote:
       | They are several years late to this. I think had Facebook done
       | this before smartphones took their Facebook Games marketshare and
       | done perks for subscribers they could of really gotten a lot of
       | subscribers. We are seeing as Apple cracks down on advertisers
       | snooping more than they should that social media platforms will
       | have to switch to subscription to supplement their income loss.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | This is huge - a product I have wanted for a long time.
       | 
       | I assume/hope this will be available to third party sites so we
       | can verify users.
        
       | CatWChainsaw wrote:
       | Please say April 1st came a month and a half early.
       | 
       | Although I do wonder if this is the opening salvo in sending
       | "Facebook: it's free and always will be" the same way as Google's
       | "don't be evil"...
        
       | fatih-erikli wrote:
       | Noone takes android seriously which is good.
        
       | swarnie wrote:
       | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhJheQDX0AEqKPw.jpg
       | 
       | So it begins....
        
       | marcopicentini wrote:
       | Why should I pay to say the truth? It should be the bot to pay to
       | convince for its lie
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | It seems to be a common theme to charge for something you already
       | provide. From taking away ports so you can charge for dongles,
       | adding in ads so that you have to pay to take them away, to
       | charging subscriptions for previously free services.
        
       | tmikaeld wrote:
       | In short: A subscription service that lets you verify your
       | account with a government ID, for $11.99/month/web or
       | $14.99/month on iOS. Support included.
       | 
       | If this removed ads, added more controls on what you see and what
       | is shared/sold to 3rd party, I'd actually consider it!
       | 
       | But ads are not mentioned and ads are probably worth more than
       | 12$/user/mo and.. this would probably help them track you
       | "better".
        
         | jefftk wrote:
         | Facebook makes $43/y per user on average [1], but it's $69/y in
         | Europe and $235/y in the US and Canada.
         | 
         | And then there's the problem that the users most likely to pay
         | are more valuable than average to advertise to.
         | 
         | [1] Worldwide quarterly ARPU x4:
         | https://www.statista.com/statistics/251328/facebooks-average...
        
           | tmikaeld wrote:
           | Even if it was 20$/mo (higher than top yearly average), I'd
           | consider it if it became a privacy service and focus shifted
           | from the users to the product.
        
             | replicanteven wrote:
             | The problem is that people who are willing to pay $20/mo
             | for privacy are much more valuable to advertisers than
             | those who can't.
             | 
             | If those users go away, the average $/user from ads goes
             | down, because the only people seeing ads are those who are
             | too poor to avoid it.
             | 
             | To an advertiser, poor people who direct their attention
             | towards whatever is put in front of them are worth a lot
             | less than rich people who carefully curate what their
             | attention is directed towards. It's grody, but that's the
             | advertising industry for you.
        
               | MichaelZuo wrote:
               | Right, someone willing to regularly pay $20/month is
               | probably worth closer to $40/month to potential
               | advertisers.
               | 
               | It probably scales all the way up until $10k/month, which
               | is near the upper limit of what super-luxury brands, that
               | would buy ads online, can earn per customer.
               | 
               | So the curious implication is that such services could be
               | 'free' or $20k/month.
               | 
               | But with a changing advertising market and lower budgets,
               | FB might view the alignment of incentives more
               | beneficial.
        
               | DoctorOW wrote:
               | Counterpoint, the main demographic for this already uses
               | ad/tracker blockers. I'm sure Meta has some ways around
               | that but getting that $20/month is much easier from a
               | willing participant.
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | That is definitely not true. Tech workers and people who
               | are tech savvy use ad/tracker blockers, regardless of how
               | good of an ad target they are. They are a very small
               | slice of consumers with excess income.
               | 
               | In other words, a lot of people who use ad blockers are
               | good ad targets, but the converse is not true.
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | The lack of ad blockers on mobile is the real sweet spot.
               | I pay for Youtube 100% to use it on mobile/ipad without
               | ads. So even ad-blocking privacy people still see lots of
               | ads if they use these apps.
        
               | antiframe wrote:
               | Mobile does not lack ad blockers. I use uBlock Origin on
               | Firefox without any problem.
        
               | grepfru_it wrote:
               | >Mobile
               | 
               | Interesting, firefox on my iphone mobile[0] does not
               | allow this...
               | 
               | [0] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-firefox-
               | ios
        
               | antiframe wrote:
               | That's unfortunate. But saying that mobile lacks ad
               | blockers is a bit disingenuous given that the largest
               | mobile platform has a very good ad blocker.
               | 
               | In a similar vein, the world does not lack ICE cars
               | because a minority of them are electric.
        
             | codq wrote:
             | Yep, I'd consider paying more, even.
             | 
             | There's a reason their products are so engaging and sticky
             | --they're enjoyable to use!
             | 
             | And they'd be significantly _more_ enjoyable if you didn 't
             | have the Eye of Sauron watching you and trying to
             | manipulate you at all times.
             | 
             | I'd pay considerably for that.
        
         | leodriesch wrote:
         | I am wondering how this works out for YouTube with Premium. It
         | removes ads and is 12EUR/mo.
        
       | ProjectArcturis wrote:
       | For $12 a month I'd get a blue badge?
        
       | skilled wrote:
       | Hahaha. This is actually hilarious. They won't budge to change
       | and innovate so instead they copy and paste what Musk did on
       | Twitter and just leave it at "fuck it".
        
       | jmugan wrote:
       | If they would turn off the advertisements and let me control my
       | feed and notifications, it might pay. I'd be mad about it, but I
       | might pay.
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | The problem with this is that people usually underestimate what
         | they are worth to a company like Meta and "I'd be willing to
         | pay 5 bucks for no ads" is usually not above the LTV/month
         | threshold.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | hackernewds wrote:
         | how much would you pay?
        
           | lordnacho wrote:
           | Same as YouTube Premium.
           | 
           | FB without ads would be great, and might change Meta's
           | incentives going forward.
        
             | 0xdada wrote:
             | Not for me, personally. FB without ads still has no
             | interesting content for me. YouTube premium is the best
             | value for my money out of all my subscriptions due to
             | content.
             | 
             | On Facebook the network effect that made it cool in the
             | beginning has now died and it will keep it from ever coming
             | back for the same reasons it was great in the beginning.
             | I'm very confident people I really care about will not
             | start posting there, and they probably have the same
             | thought process. It's just uncool.
        
           | jmugan wrote:
           | Not sure. I pay for GitHub just because I like it.
        
       | morpheos137 wrote:
       | "Free" and subsidised services online and in "Tech" e.g. uber are
       | just the same old monopolistic tactic of "dumping" to get market
       | share then jack up prices.
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | Does that mean that we can use fake names again? I mean, you can
       | get "facebook verified" just by getting locked out of your
       | account and having them demand photo ID to let you back in again.
       | Facebook certainly force-verified me.
        
         | timeon wrote:
         | > Does that mean that we can use fake names again?
         | 
         | I still have one.
        
         | charcircuit wrote:
         | Facebook lets you create 4 additional profiles with pseudonyms
         | for users who don't want to use an account with their real
         | name. Your main account still needs to use your real name, but
         | you can just not use it.
         | 
         | https://facebook.com/help/967154637433480
        
       | kkthxbb wrote:
       | I would've never said that that you will have to pay to have
       | 12x12px icon next to your profile to confirm that you are really
       | you.
        
       | wongarsu wrote:
       | Makes perfect sense, it's an easy way to generate revenue from
       | everyone who earns money on Instagram. I wouldn't pay $12 each
       | month for a blue checkmark, but for nearly everyone who profits
       | from sponsorships or who advertises their business it's a cheap
       | way to get a bit of extra clout.
        
       | gkoberger wrote:
       | I don't want to sound like I'm defending Meta, but at least
       | there's _something_ behind this verification.
       | 
       | On Twitter, there's just so many face-less spam troll accounts
       | that are verified, and all a blue check means is that the person
       | likes Elon enough to give him $8. At least Facebook requires a
       | government ID, and the verification confirms that the person is
       | who they say they are.
       | 
       | (I do think if they really cared, especially in the face of
       | looming AI advancements, this would be free. This only really
       | works if most real people are verified, otherwise there's nothing
       | suspicious about a non-verified account.)
        
         | grepfru_it wrote:
         | >At least Facebook requires a government ID, and the
         | verification confirms that the person is who they say they are.
         | 
         | I photoshopped my dad's driver's license 25 years ago. I used
         | it to successfully confirm to a website that I was over 18. I'm
         | pretty sure that method is still viable today
        
         | Alex3917 wrote:
         | > At least Facebook requires a government ID, and the
         | verification confirms that the person is who they say they are.
         | 
         | But Facebook has already required this for years to run
         | advertisements. So they're now charging for the thing that they
         | were previously doing for everyone for free, making the site
         | less safe and secure.
        
       | CraigRood wrote:
       | Real-Verified is the next logical step. Twitter will being
       | following suit very soon. That said, how does this add value to
       | Meta? Isn't this just another indication that Meta through its
       | products sees less value in actual relationships and more in
       | algo-driven timelines? Snap seems to be the only social network
       | left that is personal.
        
       | freitzkriesler2 wrote:
       | Who here is part of the, " deleted my Facebook" club?
       | 
       |  _Raises hand_
        
       | jawns wrote:
       | It's strange for ID verification to be presented as a
       | subscription offering, given that it should suffice to verify it
       | once (or for relatively long periods).
       | 
       | Obviously, Meta is after that sweet sweet MRR. But the consumer
       | should recognize that they're paying for a one-time or infrequent
       | task as if it involves ongoing effort.
       | 
       | From the consumer standpoint, a one-time fee makes much more
       | sense.
        
         | tmikaeld wrote:
         | That's probably why they baked in "support" into the offer.
         | 
         | Maybe the logic with paying goes that, if you loose access to
         | the account for any reason - you can just stop paying and it
         | will no longer be verified.
        
       | anonylizard wrote:
       | I think pay-for-verification is going to be dominant on all real-
       | identity social media.
       | 
       | Reason is simple: AI
       | 
       | 1.You can now trivially create an avatar photo, of any level of
       | attractiveness, of any race, of any age. You can even reproduce
       | the same character reliably in different environments/costumes
       | via stable diffusion + LORA. 2. You can now easily create a
       | comment history on that account, thanks to ChatGPT. 3. You can
       | even produce voices reliably with just a few samples.
       | 
       | There's no real defense against AI impersonation at scale, except
       | for charging-for-verification. The money drastically increases
       | the cost for impersonators and scammers/catfishers, and provides
       | resources on the other end to moderate impersonation.
        
         | stefan_ wrote:
         | Who cares? Is the AI gonna RSVP to my event? Haggle over my 2nd
         | hand item? Comment on whatever the local council has planned?
         | All these schemes tend to fall apart at the first contact with
         | reality.
         | 
         | (Also, you are talking about "Facebook verifying users". They
         | can't even verify who is paying them for political ads, and
         | they certainly don't seem to care very much.)
        
           | urbandw311er wrote:
           | I think it's still a relevant problem we will face as a
           | society with regards to bot farms etc running social
           | interference (eg election propaganda)
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | I think the pay-for-verification might solve those problems
         | ship sailed when Twitter decided that a symbol which had
         | previously meant they'd attempted verification could be given
         | to pretty much anyone who paid them $8 a month...
         | 
         | Impersonation-at-scale depends on scale, not verification of
         | individual accounts as authentic people with authentic
         | notability and opinions, and impersonation not at scale
         | sometimes feels more motivated to pay the $8 than the person or
         | position being impersonated.
        
           | halJordan wrote:
           | I get the "i hate Twitter/elon" attitude, but the truth is
           | that the CA system has been dependent on pay-to-verify for
           | some time now and despite whatever grievances you have
           | against verisign or whoever it's brought us to today safely
           | enough.
        
             | joe_the_user wrote:
             | And the problem with pay for identity is you can buy other
             | people's identities. The news was full impersonations right
             | after Twitter initiated it's pay for blue check marks. That
             | we don't here about it now may just be a matter that the
             | news stopped caring. URL squatting was a problem for a long
             | time - the decision that trademark holder could seize
             | domains helped but a web address today isn't considered a
             | solid identity at this point so "the system working" is a
             | bit of an exaggeration.
             | 
             | Also, I'd note the gp didn't bad-mouth Elon or Verisign so
             | your comment is a kind of riding a trolly false accusation.
        
           | m3kw9 wrote:
           | It helps because the cost of impersonating wont make sense
           | for a lot of people
        
           | anonuser123456 wrote:
           | Once/if consumers value identity this might change.
           | 
           | If everyone on twitter were paying for verification, I think
           | twitter would be much more interested in defending the
           | sanctity of said system.
           | 
           | As it stands, they are currently just trying to get the
           | feature out there and get people to pay. Getting it deployed
           | trumps making it perfect.
        
             | notahacker wrote:
             | They already had a verification feature deployed which
             | wasn't perfect but was reasonably strict. Then they debased
             | it for a new revenue stream.
             | 
             | I don't see them making the _now that we 've got a bunch of
             | people paying for it, lets reduce our revenue by suddenly
             | becoming strict on it again_ decision. Or people taking the
             | badge _more_ seriously now it just means someone subscribed
             | to Twitter Blue
        
           | benced wrote:
           | Elon turning a $8 subscription into a culture war artifact
           | doesn't invalidate the idea of a subscribing for legitimacy
           | altogether.
        
             | notahacker wrote:
             | Agreed it doesn't completely invalidate it as a concept,
             | but Elon turning the highest profile _somewhat_ reliable
             | implementation of an authenticity badge into a culture war
             | artifact doesn 't exactly bode well for it being a social
             | media must-pay-for. The fact Facebook once aspired to be
             | the platform where everyone used their real name and now
             | can't be bothered to deactivate friendspamming sexbots
             | without most users caring suggests that ordinary people
             | won't exactly be queueing up to pay them $144 per annum
             | because of their inherent trustworthiness as a verifier
             | either.
             | 
             | It'd probably work a bit on LinkedIn because of the nature
             | of the user base and lots of people already expensing
             | Premium accounts, but funnily enough I'm not sure LinkedIn
             | actually has that much of a fake account problem...
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | > a symbol which had previously meant they'd attempted
           | verification
           | 
           | That's not what it meant. It was an award for being notable.
           | $8 is a fee that you pay to get verified.
        
             | notahacker wrote:
             | It was an award for being an _authentic_ notable person or
             | entity, on the basis that the notable people and entities
             | were most likely to be parodied or faked. Now it 's an
             | award for people that pay up
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | Sending a photoshopped ID to Facebook to get the verified badge
         | on your fake account is orders of magnitude easier than
         | everything you mention here.
         | 
         | Those verifications are 100% useless for non public figures.
        
         | linuxftw wrote:
         | Or, you know, we can just go back to circa 2000 and tell people
         | not to trust everything they see on the internet as fact?
        
           | woeirua wrote:
           | Propaganda works. Even when people know it's probably fake.
        
         | shapefrog wrote:
         | > I think pay-for-verification is going to be dominant on all
         | real-identity social media.
         | 
         | Bad actors are going to be happy to pay $10/20/30/40 a month to
         | scam people, its their job and livelihood.
        
         | verisimi wrote:
         | You're going to be tracked and traced everywhere, and you're
         | going to pay for the privilege.
         | 
         | Amazing what they can get us to do!
         | 
         | This is the reason musk bought twitter too, of course.
        
       | conceptme wrote:
       | It's kinda weird that it used to be a platform for people that
       | you know in real life, that's no longer the case and nothing has
       | taken It's place.
        
         | generated wrote:
         | I would pay a token amount to only show my friends' updates,
         | all my friends updates, in reverse chronological order.
        
           | likeabbas wrote:
           | BeReal is pretty nice for this tbh. Snapchat Stories used to
           | be nice but IG killed that and then Snapchat had to find
           | other niches
        
           | MagnumOpus wrote:
           | Use the F.B.Purity browser extension.
        
         | arkitaip wrote:
         | Tons of people use Whatsapp, Imo and other chat to keep in
         | touch with friends and families without the nonsense of social
         | media.
        
           | ffssffss wrote:
           | It's more about connections to acquaintances and mutual
           | friends... maybe you just had to be there in ~2009 but
           | there's really nothing like it today. For better or worse.
        
           | johannes1234321 wrote:
           | Yes, chronological timeline and push! And that only1 for
           | people in the group.
           | 
           | 1) Yes, yes, Facebook/Meta hassome access and security issues
           | might exist etc., but way different from public-by-default
           | Facebook
        
         | wussboy wrote:
         | > people that you know in real life
         | 
         | There's still, you know, real life. I recommend it.
        
         | bobbygoodlatte wrote:
         | Yep. A very sad truth.
         | 
         | It would be quite a challenge to re-create what FB circa
         | 2006-2010 or so was like. Before influencers and engagement
         | farming. Before it became "social media" and was just a "social
         | utility"
         | 
         | The problem is that even if you re-built that product, it would
         | quickly get overrun by engagement optimizers. If the product is
         | open, they'll rush in.
         | 
         | Group chat apps somewhat fill this product void, but not
         | completely. There was something magical about a social network
         | being somewhat open & organic that group chats can't capture
        
         | frankthedog wrote:
         | The group chat is the new social network. Chronological, you
         | know who's in there, photo sharing, reactions, reply's. It has
         | everything me and my close friends need.
        
       | benjaminwootton wrote:
       | Love or hate Elon, he could definitely have an impact on the tech
       | industry.
       | 
       | In a few months he could demonstrate that you don't need as many
       | employees as you thought, that you don't need the heavy handed
       | moderation/censorship, and that you could actually charge for
       | your services rather than being wholly dependent on advertising.
       | 
       | All positive developments for the industry IMO.
        
         | DeepYogurt wrote:
         | That or he kills the company
        
           | grecy wrote:
           | Absolutely right, that is a possible outcome.
           | 
           | Personally, I'd rather try something and have it not work out
           | and learn the lessons than sit around saying "what if" for
           | the rest of my life.
        
             | lukevp wrote:
             | With 40 billion dollars on the line? I think it'd make more
             | sense to think through things and evolve it over time
             | rather than shooting from the hip constantly. Morale at
             | Twitter must be even lower than Amazon at this point.
        
               | grecy wrote:
               | > _With 40 billion dollars on the line?_
               | 
               | Well sure. Musk risked a lot more than that and almost
               | lost Tesla on the Model3 ramp. He risked a lot more than
               | that on reusable rockets, he's risking a lot more than
               | that on Starlink & Starship.
               | 
               | If you want to do something extremely impactful, you've
               | gotta take big risks.
               | 
               | Playing the safe game is pretty mundane and boring, and
               | to be honest it's not a very exciting way to live, and
               | not a very fast way to improve something.
        
               | latchkey wrote:
               | > _Morale at Twitter must be even lower than Amazon at
               | this point._
               | 
               | Why would you say that though? The people who've hung on
               | this long probably want to be there.
               | 
               | https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1625961159894663169
        
               | rvnx wrote:
               | Then it's very strange that they created the #oneteam
               | with blue hearts if they are so happy ?
        
               | tayo42 wrote:
               | There's probably some pyschopaths that enjoy the chaos
               | and power vacuums.
               | 
               | There are a lot that don't want to be there. A lot
               | returned out of necessity. Mostly from h1b visa stuff and
               | avoiding being deported. Or getting a new job isn't as
               | easy right now as some think it is. Teams are tiny so
               | people are over worked and elon is making demands that
               | require people to over work and do things immediately.
        
           | maximus-decimus wrote:
           | The company was already bleeding money. He might fail to save
           | it, but can he really kill a company that was already dying?
        
             | mmiyer wrote:
             | Twitter had many profitable quarters before Musk bought it,
             | and lots of cash on hand with a lot of runway. It was not
             | dying in any meaningful sense. His changes have only
             | destroyed profitability by substantially reducing
             | advertising revenue.
        
             | beebmam wrote:
             | Yes, yes he can.
        
             | anonymousab wrote:
             | The company had some profitable years pre-covid, and Elon's
             | first action was to nearly double their debt _and_ slash
             | their income.
             | 
             | He may have done far worse things as well but that depends
             | on your opinion of his product/feature changes. But the
             | additional debt he has saddled them with and the revenue he
             | deprived Twitter of aren't really arguable, and his
             | attempts to cut costs by short term slash and burns don't
             | make anywhere near the dent needed to offset them.
        
             | LightDub wrote:
             | Huh. New perspective.
             | 
             | I don't like Musk but is this a mercy killing?
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | At worst, it was treading water.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | I think Elon started the 'disk defragmentation' process for
         | employee efficiency and other companies are seeing the benefit.
         | There is a lot of slack in tech companies. When staff have time
         | to unironically have video shorts on how pampered they are and
         | how little work they get to do, there is a lot of
         | 'defragmentation' opportunities.
         | 
         | Companies were afraid to be first but Elon plus the new malaise
         | economy gives them the right condition to follow suit and start
         | it.
        
           | 6510 wrote:
           | The most unexpected angle to me was how people who just do
           | their job become the prime targets to get rid of. If you want
           | promotion or simply for people to stop laughing at you behind
           | your back you have to drop your productivity way way down to
           | average - ideally below.
        
         | hendersoon wrote:
         | Certainly all that /could/ happen, but given developments so
         | far it all seems just a bit far-fetched, doesn't it?
        
         | fma wrote:
         | FB was losing money due to Apple clamping down on privacy
         | policy. It should not surprise anyone that FB would look for
         | different revenue stream. IMHO FB had no choice, and I wouldn't
         | be surprised if their introduce other paid products.
         | 
         | I wish FB would have a free verification service so everyone
         | can be verified...so when I look through comments I can filter
         | by such.
        
         | LightDub wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | trashtestcrash wrote:
         | I think it's way to early to state these conclusions.
        
         | penjelly wrote:
         | he's not the first to even do this... Snapchat added a premium
         | tier with actual (small) perks way ahead of others, and they
         | have 2.5M subs for it. telegram did it too. People only focus
         | on musk cause he's loud but he's following the trends of the
         | industry, he's not inventing the ideas from thin air. Remember
         | when he said he'd make twitter a "super app"? kinda like how
         | IG, wechat, Snapchat and others have been for a while.
        
         | soneca wrote:
         | Too early to tell any of those things. The layoffs on sales
         | might make the business worse in the mid term. The layoffs on
         | product and engineering might make the product worse, even
         | obsolete in the mid term. There is absolutely no way to tell if
         | light handed moderation will work. There is no way to know if
         | the service revenue makes any difference compared to ad
         | revenue.
         | 
         | You are wishful thinking the best case scenario for Musk
         | decisions. It is just as likely, in my opinion, that in a year
         | or two the worst scenario will be the outcome of Musk tenure.
         | 
         | The worst case scenario, in my view, is something like the
         | revenue never recovering to pre-acquisition levels (which
         | weren't great already), the product not having any
         | significantly valuable new feature, and suffering from long
         | outages and ended up being sold for ~$10bi.
        
           | blastonico wrote:
           | Overstaffing a company doesn't mean it makes great products
           | too, it tends to create more bureaucracy, deep hierarchy
           | structure, and pointless products (some companies putting
           | more effort on these products then focusing on their best
           | ones...).
           | 
           | It's extremely difficult to find the right balance, almost
           | impossible when the company is sky rocketing, like Twitter
           | was.
           | 
           | Trying to analyze it from a business man perspective, I see
           | that Elon's trying to find that balance and I see that as
           | positive. He can be wrong, things can go wrong, but sometimes
           | you must make this kind of decision, take the consequences,
           | and adjust to fix what you broke.
        
         | chasing wrote:
         | He may very well prove that you can make a social media service
         | more profitable by making it more harmful to users and damaging
         | to the community in general.
         | 
         | I'm not sure selling sausages made out of sawdust is a big win
         | or even that interesting of a business solution. It's a short-
         | cut that most companies could take if they were to chuck their
         | ethics out of the window (and possibly be willing to break the
         | law).
         | 
         | But if it makes money a large swath of the tech industry will
         | hail it as an innovation and follow suit. Which is kind of sad.
         | And also, at the end of the day, why we need laws against
         | selling sausages made out of sawdust.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | tokinonagare wrote:
           | > He may very well prove that you can make a social media
           | service more profitable by making it more harmful to users
           | and damaging to the community in general.
           | 
           | By removing the very politically-biased censorship he already
           | did a very healthy move for the whole world.
        
             | ElevenLathe wrote:
             | I'm sure dumping millions of users suddenly into the
             | equivalent of /b/ will be a politically neutral change. /s
             | 
             | Unfortunately it isn't possible to have an unmoderated
             | forum. Choosing not to moderate is still a moderation
             | choice.
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | > _By removing the very politically-biased censorship..._
             | 
             | About that...123
             | 
             | 1 https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/25/23571103/elon-musk-
             | twitte...
             | 
             | 2 https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/16/tech/musk-censors-
             | press/index...
             | 
             | 3 https://theintercept.com/2022/11/22/elon-musk-twitter-
             | censor...
        
             | mc32 wrote:
             | He did but we see both the liberal and autocratic
             | governments of the world lament that they wish Elon would
             | be open to government censorship. Now, some people don't
             | want to have this be acknowledged but it's what we're
             | seeing.
        
           | drstewart wrote:
           | People are actually going to start arguing that Twitter and
           | other social media were healthy up until he bought Twitter
           | just to spite bad meme man, aren't they?
        
             | chasing wrote:
             | Just because something's a mess doesn't mean you can't make
             | it worse.
        
         | curiousgal wrote:
         | This is satire, right?
        
           | benjaminwootton wrote:
           | No. As I mentioned, leaving your feelings about him
           | personally aside, he is challenging the model for social
           | media and now having the approach cloned by the market
           | leader.
           | 
           | I hated the moderations/censorship on these platforms and I
           | dislike the adtech/tracking business model so he has my
           | support on both of those angles.
           | 
           | Meta also appear to be bundling in customer support which is
           | probably my third objection to big tech. So I'll thank Elon
           | for that one too.
        
             | anonymousab wrote:
             | What he has demonstrated so far is that you don't need
             | those things if your goal is to lose money, and you can
             | stay alive a little longer in those situations by simply
             | ignoring several laws wholesale.
             | 
             | He still has yet to demonstrate any other outcomes than
             | making twitter vastly less profitable.
        
             | ripvanwinkle wrote:
             | The ad tracking is not going away with this new offer
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | Yeah, there's too much money to be made. It's unlikely to
               | go away unless made entirely illegal.
        
             | smrtinsert wrote:
             | The model includes ignoring real estate contracts? He's
             | having an impact like someone dumping a trash bin on your
             | lawn has an impact
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | kristianc wrote:
         | Or ... none of those could end up being true. I remember a lot
         | of projection about how Elon was going to restore Twitter to
         | the 'early days', and none of that has come to pass either.
         | 
         | I'd rather judge on things that have actually happened than
         | have to deal with a new set of forward looking projections
         | about what could happen every few months.
        
           | soneca wrote:
           | I remember having a bit of hope that an easy win could be he
           | making changes to regain trust from developers and make
           | Twitter a more dynamic platform with a more open API. Turns
           | out, he did exactly the opposite and led to even more
           | distrust from third party developers.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | It adds nothing to reply to someone saying that the changes
           | at twitter could be good and influential by saying "but they
           | could also be bad." It's already implied in the _could._
           | 
           | > I'd rather judge on things that have actually happened than
           | have to deal with a new set of forward looking projections
           | about what could happen every few months.
           | 
           | If you're leaving all prediction and forecasting to other
           | people, why complain when they do it?
        
             | kristianc wrote:
             | I'm not pointing out that they could be bad -- I'm pointing
             | out that there's a good track record of them not happening
             | at all, particularly when it comes to Musk.
        
         | shrimpx wrote:
         | I read that ~300k users have signed up for Twitter Blue, so
         | Twitter Blue has increased Twitter's revenue by 0.5%.
         | 
         | He's definitely made a bunch of contrarian decisions but it's
         | too early to speculate that they could be 'impact'.
         | 
         | Buying a company and immediately forcing it to operate on a
         | fraction of its prior resources is not new, btw. It's the
         | private equity formula.
        
       | Spastche wrote:
       | seems like needless rent-seeking for a dying company
        
         | meepmorp wrote:
         | the rent seeking is a way to keep the place going, ad revenue
         | is down and they're still shoveling money into the metaverse
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | Honestly, all of this "pay for a verified badge" BS from Twitter,
       | now FB and others seems exactly equivalent to when companies
       | release software with vulnerabilities and then also charge you
       | for the antivirus software to protect against that (thankfully,
       | that seems to be less of an issue these days).
       | 
       | Why don't these companies have a responsibility to prevent
       | fraudulent signups in the first place - especially Facebook which
       | has, from day #1, prevented non-real-person signups in their Ts-
       | and-Cs.
        
         | westoque wrote:
         | i actually support the pay to verify feature. my reasoning for
         | this is it gives authenticity to the user. if the user is
         | verified then i know that the user is most likely not a bot
         | account and gives some credibility. could this be free?
         | certainly, it's how the old twitter verified works but now
         | since all users can be verified, it democratizes this feature
         | and i think its better overall. i notced discussions with
         | similarly verified users are more civilized probably due to the
         | personal information being shared and makes them think twice
         | about doing anything malicious or otherwise.
        
         | basch wrote:
         | Or like Microsoft making conditional access a premium and not
         | base feature of identity.
         | 
         | "We can see hackers are in your account, enter your credit card
         | and upgrade now so we can boot them for you."
        
       | dm8 wrote:
       | As someone who likes to pay for things I use, I'm in the target
       | customer/user group here. Couple of questions -
       | 
       | 1. Is it only for FB or across all Meta services (FB, IG,
       | WhatsApp, Oculus etc.) 2. Are ads going to be shown to
       | verified/premium subscribers?
       | 
       | 2nd point is particularly important. Especially if key value prop
       | is about security and privacy. Looks like ARPU for Meta is $40
       | annually. So financially they can afford not to show ads to
       | verified subscribers (annual sub of $100+). However, for verified
       | subscribers it's only about "blue badge" I doubt there will be
       | huge uptick unless it has other "sweetners" like "no ads" like
       | youtube premium.
       | 
       | Overall - this is a great move by Meta. As it gives them ability
       | to diversify revenue streams from ads where they are dependent on
       | 3rd party platform privacy policies. YouTube premium has shown
       | that social platforms can thrive with freemium model and they
       | have roughly 80M subs ($1B+ revenue). Meta is trying to replicate
       | same success with their brands.
        
         | zeroonetwothree wrote:
         | The type of person that can afford $144/year is going to have
         | much higher ARPU than the overall average.
        
         | codq wrote:
         | YouTube Premium has a clear value prop though w/no ads--I'm
         | still not sure what I'm getting for Meta Verified... a blue
         | check? Direct support if I (probably won't) need it?
         | 
         | Twitter Blue now allows for longer tweets, and there is (or at
         | least was) cachet around having a checkmark, so there is some
         | cultural heritage there.
         | 
         | Blue checks on Instagram have some clout, but I've never heard
         | of someone eager for verification on Facebook. Protecting
         | against impersonation is something these platforms should be
         | doing for free.
         | 
         | If this removed ads across the platforms then _maybe_ there'd
         | be value in this, but I really just don't understand who this
         | is for or why anyone would pay $100+ /year.
        
       | redox99 wrote:
       | $12 is too high if it's not going to remove ads.
        
       | markx2 wrote:
       | "Good morning and new product announcement: this week we're
       | starting to roll out Meta Verified -- a subscription service that
       | lets you verify your account with a government ID, get a blue
       | badge, get extra impersonation protection against accounts
       | claiming to be you, and get direct access to customer support.
       | This new feature is about increasing authenticity and security
       | across our services. Meta Verified starts at $11.99 / month on
       | web or $14.99 / month on iOS. We'll be rolling out in Australia
       | and New Zealand this week and more countries soon."
        
         | HeckFeck wrote:
         | "Nothing sinister to see here, move along!"
         | 
         | t. Nick Clegg
        
           | swarnie wrote:
           | Nice to see the Tea Boy still getting work.
        
         | jfk13 wrote:
         | $12 a _month_ , or nearly $150 a year?! Wow... how much
         | "customer support" do they expect the average person to need in
         | the course of a year?
        
           | spike021 wrote:
           | I've known people with several thousand followers whose
           | accounts get stolen ("hacked") and then they have no way to
           | get Instagram to restore their access, so they're forced to
           | make a new account.
           | 
           | I guess it'd be helpful for people like them to have
           | dedicated support lines.
        
             | bink wrote:
             | Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to enable MFA?
        
           | jefftk wrote:
           | People who pay for customer support probably expect to
           | consume more than average.
        
             | codq wrote:
             | I'd call them every day just to chat.
        
           | mattm wrote:
           | This would be worth paying for one month just to get access
           | to customer support if I needed it.
        
         | RobotToaster wrote:
         | What makes this more ridiculous is that some of us have already
         | been forced to verify with a government ID years ago, and they
         | did that for free.
         | 
         | (I think it's if you run a page with over a certain number of
         | followers or something)
        
         | mrtqaf wrote:
         | Hilarious. You pay for the fact that they can track you better,
         | build real life dossiers and charge advertisers more.
         | 
         | Sometime ago it was "if it's free, you are the product". Let's
         | change that to "you are always the product".
        
           | baby wrote:
           | People who say that usually don't find facebook useful.
           | Imagine saying that about google maps, gmail, spreadsheet,
           | google docs, google meet, etc.
        
             | yazzku wrote:
             | People who say that don't want their identities
             | prostituted. Whether or how useful it is is irrelevant. I
             | don't want to have my identity prostituted based on the
             | degree of how much I get in return.
        
           | yazzku wrote:
           | Now the product literally pays for itself. It's like the wall
           | in Mexico, Silicon Valley style.
        
         | winternett wrote:
         | Seems to be a lazy clone of Musk policy from Twitter... Isn't
         | it crazy that now private companies (not even in conjunction
         | with governments that issue IDs) are selling online legitimacy?
         | 
         | These moves are driven by ignorant (outright) class-ism, and
         | social media is quickly becoming a system of fraud that
         | supports the wealthy while disabling people who don't pay. It's
         | going to corrupt every aspect of life from news to
         | entertainment if it hasn't already.... Trending topics used to
         | be somewhat accurate because they were based on everyone's
         | posts rather than just the posts of people who could afford to
         | pay for verification. Because platforms got greedy and couldn't
         | make platforms work with corporate sponsoring advertiser
         | funding alone, they turn on users, the very people already
         | working for free... This is not sustainable business. These
         | platforms create schemes like crypto and NFT scams, info
         | harvesting, unfair moderation, user account lockout extortion
         | schemes, fake followers, payola promotion, ban extortion,
         | industry plants, and many other criminal things to extort their
         | user base. It's the modern day large-scale criminal enterprise
         | to run a social media site.... The reason it's not obvious is
         | because no one sees the code at work, they just see the end
         | result of content creators.
         | 
         | This is really short-sighted (stupid actually) tech leadership
         | based on profit desperation. I hope people begin to defund
         | these large social media entities, as they are no good for
         | anyone's progress, except for the company CEOs and Investors
         | perhaps... Ugh.
        
       | dopa42365 wrote:
       | If for whatever reason you absolutely NEED a different account
       | than everyone else (very special VIP person), you might as well
       | pay for it.
        
       | epaulson wrote:
       | Every time I see these pay-for-verification schemes I can't help
       | but think of Dr. Seuss and the Star-Bellied Sneetches:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VohyMXB4FLo
       | 
       | I must not be the target audience for this because I can't see
       | how paying nearly as much as Amazon Prime is worth it so I can
       | get comment priority and a little star next to my FB account,
       | which is friends-only anyway. If they threw something useful in,
       | like a music or video streaming service with a decent catalog or
       | airline miles or a discount at Target, then maybe.
        
         | jvm___ wrote:
         | I think it's a response to the incoming AI revolution.
         | 
         | Just because someone writes in your name and your style online
         | won't mean it's you when ChatGPT or the next version can clone
         | your writing style in seconds.
         | 
         | Being verified online is going to be more important for
         | businesses and people as the internet degrades into the quality
         | level of recipe sites.
        
           | jjfoooo4 wrote:
           | Sounds like Facebook's problem, not mine.
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | > Being verified online is going to be more important for
           | businesses and people as the internet degrades into the
           | quality level of recipe sites.
           | 
           | Now someone is thinking and making sense. But I don't think
           | this current AI cycle is anything of a 'revolution'. It is
           | more like a pure hype and mania driven reaction over a
           | hallucinating AI generating sophistry.
           | 
           | There is no breakthrough in this other than 'train it on more
           | data and watch it go off the rails' like what we have seen
           | with Bing AI. This is just Tay 2.0.
        
       | anony23 wrote:
       | I wouldn't even create a Meta account if they paid ME 11.99/month
        
       | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
       | The key feature seems to be access to customer support. If you
       | have a large audience or following on Facebook and it's relevant
       | to your business then I could probably see it being worthwhile.
       | For regular users the value proposition seems questionable?
       | 
       | I'd probably be more fine with a one-time fixed-cost verification
       | service, considering it probably requires a human to manually
       | verify and approve each request. But a monthly subscription? That
       | feels like a rent-seeking cash grab. Do you suddenly forget about
       | someone's verification status as soon as they stop paying?
       | 
       | If anyone reading this comment is considering paying for this
       | service I'd love to hear what makes this service worthwhile for
       | you.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-02-19 23:01 UTC)