[HN Gopher] Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS
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Mercedes-Benz previews its operating system MB.OS
Author : mfiguiere
Score : 45 points
Date : 2023-02-22 20:42 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (media.mbusa.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (media.mbusa.com)
| kensai wrote:
| Software is what legacy car manufacturers have been lacking so
| it's a move to the right direction indeed. Curious also about the
| future OSes of BMW and VW Group.
| k8sToGo wrote:
| VW tried to do their own software with the ID series and failed
| horribly to the point the CEO had to be replaced.
| rad_gruchalski wrote:
| I take any "legacy manufacturer" vehicle over the "modern
| manufacturer" car. If my only choice is VAG, I take Skoda.
| TheLoafOfBread wrote:
| Car is an appliance, like a fridge. I don't want to have an
| internet connected display showing me ads and "upgrades" on a
| fridge, nor a car, nor a TV.
| nameisu wrote:
| [dead]
| whiplash451 wrote:
| Lots of negative comments in this thread, which I can understand.
|
| But let's be fair, for a car manufacturer, carplay is the kiss of
| death.
| chrstphrknwtn wrote:
| How so? I mean, they're still manufacturing the actual car
| itself.
| megatoaster wrote:
| "In China, Mercedes-Benz is engaging in a local cloud partnership
| with Tencent to support its automated driving systems. An
| enriched UI for automated driving functions including an advanced
| lane-level map view is planned."
|
| Tencent, really? How did that come about?
| antipaul wrote:
| These people should be banned from making software. Some imposed
| penance would be good too.
|
| "MBUX" is buggy and confusing as heck in a brand new 2023 model.
|
| Apparently one of the most requested features in new cars [1] has
| been CarPlay - people are tired of the native "infotainment"
| garbage
|
| [1] It's also a top feature for many drivers and car buyers.
| Twenty-three percent of new car buyers in the U.S. say they "must
| have" CarPlay https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/05/29/apple-carplay-
| massive-su...
| badRNG wrote:
| > The company is confident that this strategic approach to
| software and hardware development will be the basis for lifetime
| revenues as well as additional contributions. Already in 2022,
| Mercedes-Benz generated more than 1 billion euro in software-
| enabled revenues with products and services such as navigation,
| Live Traffic or online map updates.
|
| Get ready to pay a monthly subscription to use features that come
| stock on your car.
| drewg123 wrote:
| What's the legality of hacking these things, assuming you own
| the car?
|
| For example, BMW charges $18/mo to turn on heated seats you
| already own. Am I legally allowed to hack their software to
| enable heated seats w/o paying? How about installing a wire and
| switch and running them manually?
| TheLoafOfBread wrote:
| Of course you are, otherwise jailbreaking would be a crime.
| gigatexal wrote:
| All it needs to do is support CarPlay. Honestly car
| manufacturers should just let Apple do the whole car takeover.
| I've not met a stock system I liked. I'd rather it be powered
| by my phone.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I added a $200 CarPlay radio to our old Honda and it blows
| away every factory nav unit for usability (and sounds
| _adequate_ ). At this point, I'm only buying a car that has,
| or can easily have added, wireless CarPlay.
| speedgoose wrote:
| I like the BMW and the Tesla ones. I also heard good things
| about the Polestar Android.
|
| The current OS on the Mercedes looks very laggy and not very
| user friendly, but if they fixed these major issues it could
| be quite nice. The high end Mercedes has a huge oled
| dashboard, it's not something Apple CarPlay supports.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Tesla's is fairly good, but the way they handle text
| messages leaves me really wishing I could just have
| CarPlay. I may install a third-party screen somewhere so I
| can have it back.
| udev wrote:
| MB.OS stands for Monetization Backdoor Operating System.
| dsr_ wrote:
| A friend just bought a Mustang and showed it off.
|
| The driver's dashboard is a somewhat configurable screen. All I
| could think of was that a 1970 Mustang, treated moderately well
| and maintained regularly, is still a useful car fifty years
| later. In fact, if it's survived, the asking price is within
| spitting distance of a new Mustang.
|
| Is there any chance that a 2023 Mustang will be a useful vehicle
| in 2073?
|
| Will any 2026 Mercedes still be running and maintainable in 2076?
| moremetadata wrote:
| I'll give Google their due, their satnav maps apps was accurate
| enough and fast enough to not need a co driver on unfamiliar
| roads with my Colin McRae head on. Thats more than can be said
| with MB's Becker Maps.
| svdr wrote:
| The use of touchscreens has made handling devices and machines a
| lot less pleasant. We will soon see a reverse movement, where
| physical buttons become more important again. So much more
| satisfying.
|
| Of course, this can still be combined with plenty of software.
| ryanianian wrote:
| I'm surprised the StreamDeck family of gizmos hasn't caught on
| as a popular aftermarket car mod. It's just little LEDs inside
| clear buttons. I'd love about 5 of them right on the center
| console that I could somehow program to do routines for me.
| mempko wrote:
| Is this using Jolla's Android AppSupport? https://jolla.com/
|
| I use a Sailfish OS phone and it works amazingly well. I know
| they have been pushing hard into the auto industry after pulling
| out of Russia because of the war. I would be very pleased if
| Mercedes is helping fund Jolla.
| mpol wrote:
| In the past few years Jolla worked together with MB. In the
| latest Sailfish release there were a lot of Android updates,
| and it seems of high importance to Jolla. At the same time,
| Jolla could use a new investor, but there was no news that MB
| would be interested in becoming an investor in Jolla.
| tpmx wrote:
| Ah, this will be fun to watch. I give this about a 3% chance of
| producing something the end users will actually enjoy using.
|
| Hardware manufacturers are generally extremely bad at building
| software teams. It's against their DNA. Their executive
| leadership culture tends to actively reject people who are good
| at leading software teams, nevermind how much they want that
| sweet UI/software. (Yes, Apple exists and they are a hardware
| company that's pretty good at software.)
|
| Then add a German extremely hierarchical largeco culture to the
| mix...
| qrohlf wrote:
| I was recently an owner of a Merced-Benz commercial van, and the
| software was by far the worst part of that whole experience.
|
| It had obvious race-condition type bugs when it came to the user
| interface layer, but most frustrating was its tendency to succumb
| to some kind of memory leak on long drives where the entire head
| unit would just lock up and crash to a black screen after 6-7
| hours of being turned on. Because the vehicle kept the computer
| system "warm" for up to 30 minutes or so to avoid doing a full
| (and slow) bootup process every time you stopped for fuel, this
| was a real problem on long trips and couldn't always be solved by
| power cycling the vehicle.
|
| Had a dealer try to update it twice, which didn't seem to
| meaningfully impact the system stability at all.
|
| Then there were multiple other, non-head-unit related glitches
| like the lane assist and cruise control features being
| incompatible with the state of Nevada (if the system fails to
| detect any other vehicles for a period of more than about 90
| minutes, it assumes that there is a sensor fault, and refuses to
| operate [1]. Unfortunately it is _quite easy_ to spend hours on
| the road alone in many southwestern US states, triggering this
| failsafe mode)
|
| Suffice it to say that I am very skeptical of any software coming
| from Mercedes these days.
|
| [1] https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/f265/2019-sprinter-
| cruis...
| GoToRO wrote:
| That sw does not come from Mercedes, they just buy different
| devices for what they need from suppliers. The salary offered
| by one such supplier for a graduate engineer was less than what
| a construction company was offering to hang dry wall (qualified
| worker). The construction company was raising a new building
| for the supplier.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| That's mostly an irrelevant detail.
|
| Mercedes may not be the OEM in this instance, though they are
| certainly the vendor, who put their name and reputation to
| it.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| I'm also horrified by the trend to put more and more of the
| meters into the UI. My Ford has done the booting thing before
| on a highway as well as once it flipped the screen horizontally
| until it was shut down and started again. I can't imagine the
| quality is any better for the display components that will
| replace speedometers and such
| babypuncher wrote:
| I don't think I've ever used software provided by an automaker
| that I would classify as "good". Just varying degrees from
| "functional, but barebones and clunky" down to "so buggy and
| useless it's a legitimate safety hazard".
|
| As a result, I'm firmly on team "make every infotainment system
| a dumb terminal for your phone" and refuse to buy any car that
| doesn't support both Android Auto and Apple CarPlay.
| killerpopiller wrote:
| I own a MB V-class and had no software issue I remember.
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| > couldn't always be solved by power cycling the vehicle.
|
| Made me remember when I turned on my new (dumb) TV and it did a
| startup sound. I knew it would get worse in the future.
| lh7777 wrote:
| > if the system fails to detect any other vehicles for a period
| of more than about 90 minutes, it assumes that there is a
| sensor fault, and refuses to operate
|
| I have a current model Sprinter and this behavior is
| frustrating (thanks for the explanation, by the way, I thought
| it was a random bug). Cruise will also disengage in heavy rain
| or snow, with the system saying the sensor is dirty. It
| wouldn't be so bad if traditional cruise control would keep
| working without the active braking assist, etc. but
| unfortunately it's all or nothing. I do like the system when it
| works, which is most of the time, and it's never done something
| that felt unsafe.
|
| I haven't had any problems with the info system. This is my
| first vehicle with a touchscreen, and I was worried that it'd
| be a pain to use. But Mercedes provides real buttons for common
| actions, little trackpads on the steering wheel that can
| control the system without ever having to touch the screen, Car
| Play works great, and the built-in nav system is useful for
| those times I need directions and don't have a cell signal.
|
| My biggest worry is how these delicate parts will hold up over
| the years. My 10 year old car has a monochrome dot matrix
| display that loses a good number of pixels when it gets hot
| out. Will I really be able to get replacement parts for the
| Sprinter when the screen or computer start to die in 10-15
| years?
| mtillman wrote:
| This is why I only buy used MBs from pre-2016. They're
| fantastic and they don't require a subscription. Though the
| 2016 E/S is a wifi hotspot if you really want that in a car.
| [deleted]
| ElijahLynn wrote:
| Yuck:
|
| > MB.OS is designed and developed in-house to retain full control
|
| You better have some world class software engineers to pull this
| off, a LOT of them. And retain them. If not, you better go open
| source. You can still retain full control with open source.
|
| Good software is the KEY to good cars, especially electric ones.
| Why are we inventing 100 different models of cars every year?
| What a waste of human potential.
| oneplane wrote:
| Ecosystems are the key, not so much in which house or how
| public it is built. (see: iOS) It's also a system for a car,
| and probably a niche one at that.
|
| There are a few things that are relevant in Car-OS these days:
| - Ecosystems - Long-term maintenance - Integration
| with a phone that takes over most day-to-day interactions
| - Car should work without it
|
| If MB.OS and BMW's version and Audi and whoever else wants to
| build one doesn't support CarPlay or Android Auto (or whatever
| their future incarnations will be), it is already irrelevant.
| If anything, MB.OS is about as relevant to a consumer as QNX
| is. Or VxWorks for that matter. (spoiler: consumer doesn't care
| and doesn't really want anything to do with it)
|
| That doesn't mean that all car makers should just keep using an
| ancient QNX version statically forever, or whatever some OEM
| happens to install with the head units, but an in-house Linux
| distro with some vendor branding sauce really is about as
| relevant as blinker fluid.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| This makes an odd assumption about what drives, and does not
| drive, sales. Companies don't buy 300 company car because it
| has the best center console OS.
| oneplane wrote:
| No, it doesn't. What I wrote is the exact same thing you
| condensed here:
|
| > Companies don't buy 300 company car because it has the
| best center console OS.
|
| However, I centred mine more around personal consumers,
| rather can organisational buyers. It's also not just some
| console OS, but an ecosystem that also reals with sensors
| and self-driving features.
|
| I also went more into the technical aspects of operating
| system success, but rather than say something to the extent
| of "yet another QNX-style lineage is about as useful as
| Windows Mobile", I wrote a slightly more expanded story,
| just like Mercedes-Benz did on their announcement (but they
| added a whole lot of extra fluff about how their OS is a
| value add).
| mackman wrote:
| I'd be surprised if this isn't just another Android fork.
| mempko wrote:
| It's not from what I read. MBUX, the UI is built using Qt.
| [deleted]
| delecti wrote:
| I work there, and I'd be massively surprised if it _were_.
|
| Historically, their in-vehicle software has been handled by
| other companies they've contracted, and is radically
| different from generation to generation (different company
| each time).
| HellDunkel wrote:
| The name MB.OS is misleading. It is not a new operating system
| but a linux or android based hmi sytem.
| whalesalad wrote:
| I disagree. Sometimes you need to invent things yourself.
| Mercedes is an absolutely massive company with many subsidiary
| brands. This is not an automatic bad move.
| ElijahLynn wrote:
| But they are not a software company at the core. They need to
| be to pull this off.
| orbifold wrote:
| Both Mercedes and Volkswagen have absolutely massive
| software divisions, easily 10k+ people. They pay really
| well for German standards and have access to a large talent
| pool of people that would like to live in Germany.
| rad_gruchalski wrote:
| Big and well paid doesn't equal quality. The fiasco of
| id3 is the best example. Or the whole Audi/VW drama. It
| doesn't change the fact that their management just
| doesn't get software. Pouring more money over that and
| hiring more "talent" isn't going to change that.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Most hardware companies are not known for good software.
| They treat software like it's just another line item on
| the BOM: Like a bolt or a screw. Procure it as cheaply as
| possible, scoop it into the product on the assembly line,
| and make sure it passes a few checkboxes and you're done.
| Unless they see software as a core differentiating
| product feature that drives purchases, their quality bar
| is going to be "barely good enough to not cause a product
| recall".
| cududa wrote:
| I mean their self driving tech seems to be the most
| impressive out there
| qotgalaxy wrote:
| [dead]
| catchnear4321 wrote:
| > Unlocking financial opportunity
|
| bazinga
| guluarte wrote:
| >Offering flexible upgrades
|
| do you want to buy the headlights DLC ($0.9 first month, then
| $29.9)? Y/n
| TheLoafOfBread wrote:
| I can't wait when infotainment will start playing ads.
| rolenthedeep wrote:
| Please press the brake or accelerator to confirm your
| subscription
| rad_gruchalski wrote:
| Or just wait until ADAS front assist gets a false positive
| around a t junction and someone stops in your rear.
| juice_bus wrote:
| Sorry, your package only allows you to turn the volume up to
| 45%, would you like to upgrade?
| Hamuko wrote:
| I'd personally love if manufacturers actually offered upgrades
| on their older cars. I had an older Mercedes-Benz and I
| would've absolutely given Mercedes-Benz money if they had a
| first-party CarPlay solution for my then car.
| cjdoc29 wrote:
| Fun fact: Porsche offers this for some of its older
| generation models.
|
| https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2023/products/porsche-
| cla...
| Hamuko wrote:
| Yeah, Porsche is the only manufacturer that I know of that
| actually cares about older cars they've sold.
|
| They even made an amusing ad to that effect:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8-9oIq1hxw
| unglaublich wrote:
| You're effectively saying that you want more disabled
| features, just in case you want to upgrade your property at
| some point.
| babypuncher wrote:
| No, they're saying they would pay for new software. Many
| ~10 year old cars have all the hardware necessary to
| support things like CarPlay, but because CarPlay didn't
| exist yet they do not have it. A lot of people would
| probably happily pay $200 to add it to their car without
| having to shoehorn in a third party head unit.
| abfan1127 wrote:
| I think it was more about offering features on cars
| manufactured prior the new feature was released...
| ryanianian wrote:
| Not really. CarPlay didn't exist when the car was made. The
| car manufacturer had to add software integration even if
| the hardware was already competent. Parent comment is
| saying they'd pay to receive this added integration.
| haliskerbas wrote:
| The best car OS so far (even better than Tesla IMO) has been
| Apple CarPlay. Just be dumb and let my phone handle it, and make
| the touch screen decent. Bonus points if you implement the multi
| screen CarPlay concept! Just give up!
| rad_gruchalski wrote:
| Really dislike that idea. Forces all the ios stuff on the
| dashboard, usually in low quality and limited controls.
|
| BMW CarDrive starts getting bad but it's still pretty decent
| good quality, fast os. What irks me about it is that the BMW
| people start dumbing down the ICE UI to match the simplicity of
| the EV, which takes away a lot of of good stuff.
|
| Best visible when comparing the 2019 vs 2022 model UI. 2019 was
| by far the best.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| Agreed, except the last bit. My phone should have nothing to do
| with the UI showing speed or RPM.
| haliskerbas wrote:
| I can get behind this. I'm okay with a simple car display for
| the vehicles vitals.
| babypuncher wrote:
| Yes! Every car infotainment system should only cover the basics
| (bluetooth, radio, critical car controls). Then act as a dumb
| terminal for CarPlay and Android Auto.
|
| Cars are trying too hard to do things our smartphones already
| do way better.
| antipaul wrote:
| This is the saving grace.
|
| And luckily, the next generation CarPlay will span the entire
| dashboard, including in front of the driver [1]
|
| I can't wait to abandon my native "infotainment" cluster**
|
| [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2022/12/28/next-generation-
| carplay...
| Philip-J-Fry wrote:
| This is why I can't wait until the next generation CarPlay is
| released. When your phone is rendering the infotainment and the
| driver display it's going to be game changing based on the
| examples Apple showed.
|
| Android Auto/CarPlay changed car infotainment forever, and the
| next logical step is to just take over the whole thing.
| s1mon wrote:
| This is the same reason I do not want a smart TV. I have one (a
| Sony), but thankfully it must have lost contact with our WiFi
| network at some point and I never notice that it does anything
| other than act as a monitor for our Apple TV. It used to be
| that it would periodically bug me about software updates and I
| would endure its dreadful UI just long enough to get through
| that.
| kevinventullo wrote:
| Right. I don't trust Mercedes to build an OS any more than I
| trust Apple to build a car. They should focus on their
| strengths.
| shdshdshd wrote:
| The MBUX is awful. Unresponsive, lagging, buggy, unstable,
| anything that could go wrong is going wrong. Looking forward for
| fixes or more interest towards the user.
| maldev wrote:
| Everyones talking about alot of negatives. But I have a E53 AMG
| 4matic+ coup. It looks amazing, like constant compliments, i've
| even had people compliment it and give me their number in a
| wendy's drive through.
|
| But the OS(MBUX 2) is actually really good, at first I was a bit
| negative on it. But the way they have everything integrated that
| isn't really possible with apple play is nice. The dash is
| customizable, I have my setup with speed, an array right in the
| center on when to turn, and the right is a mini map so I can see
| the road. On top of that the screen in the center is amazing and
| has a few views.
|
| The voice assistant is really nice, does everything I want, they
| have it baked in so each seat can activate it and it knows based
| off a mic. Can't do that with apple play. So when a girl in my
| car says "Turn on the massage" or "Turn the temperature to 70",
| it only does for their side. And honestly, besides the map not
| having police checkpoints, it's a bit better than apple maps or
| google maps. And on top of that, I can lookup the location on
| apple maps on my phone, then send it to the car.
|
| And according to my dealer, most people forgo using carplay for
| anything other than music in alot of the benzes.
| oellegaard wrote:
| I have an EQB and I totally agree. I insisted on getting
| CarPlay but I used it once and I don't see any need for it.
| Much happier with MBUX. However, this new Android based OS
| isn't good news and I'm not sure I would want to get a new car
| with an Android based OS in it.
| mempko wrote:
| It's likely using Jolla's AppSupport (no official
| announcements, just my guess). It's not Android Based but an
| Android compatibility layer.
|
| Kind of how WINE lets you run Windows apps in Linux. I have a
| Sailfish OS, and it's a linux system (full command line, UI
| built with QT) but also has Android support via their
| translation layer.
| magnuspaaske wrote:
| I rented an Audi and this was my experience too. It ended up
| working out really well to use the car navigation system and I
| still had car play right there for carplay and phone calls. And
| for navigation stuff you can still load up google or apple maps
| if you need to double check the route since they sometimes have
| different traffic information. But most of the time you don't
| need to
| netfortius wrote:
| "Building a proprietary system:..."
|
| This will pretty much reassure everyone willing to drive under
| the control of such.
| jagged-chisel wrote:
| Why does the automobile industry insist on keeping these things
| in-house when they are clearly terrible at them? I recall an
| interview with a Ford manager a few years back where they were
| asked something about adopting Car Play and the response was
| something like "we have people that can write software for us, so
| we won't be using that."
| akira2501 wrote:
| > The company is confident that this strategic approach to
| software and hardware development will be the basis for
| lifetime revenues as well as additional contributions.
|
| I think they're pretty blunt as to "why." What they seem to be
| hazy on is the "how."
| gangstead wrote:
| It seems like they go through phases of we-can-do-this-in-house
| followed by let's-just-buy-something-that-works. MB seems to be
| in the in-house part of the cycle.
| Bud wrote:
| [dead]
| stevenally wrote:
| Ok... What car brand has the least bad UI these days?
|
| I have been putting off getting a new car for about a year.
| ryanianian wrote:
| I have a recent Mazda.
|
| It boots to CarPlay pretty quickly. Its native controls are
| pretty utilitarian when they are needed (e.g. to switch to
| native SiriusXM when cell signal is spotty). I even prefer the
| look of its maps although I don't use them.
|
| And, get a load of this: they still have actual and intuitive
| physical buttons for climate controls, defrosters, and driving
| modes.
|
| Oh, and the car itself is decent as well if you forgive the meh
| fuel-economy.
| zztop44 wrote:
| Mazda. They're all in on being anti-touchscreen plus they
| support CarPlay (with a physical control).
| zie wrote:
| One with Apple CarPlay and/or Android Auto built-in, so you can
| avoid the car UI as much as possible.
| lallysingh wrote:
| I put a quad-lock on my dashboard and just stick my phone on
| it. It's right next to my steering wheel. I set the stereo to
| bluetooth link and everything's actually great.
|
| I think CarPlay and Auto are too much. Outside of navigation
| and music, what overlap do we have in a car and phone? Just
| enable bluetooth sending of locations or full-on directions.
| Bluetooth music already works great.
|
| Eventually we'll have voice agent integration so that stuff
| nearby (e.g., bluetooth range) gets integrated into the
| available status/command set of one primary one.
|
| Leave all the fast-moving, upgradable stuff on the phone.
| Make the car platform stable and you've got the best of both
| worlds.
| zie wrote:
| Totally valid. What's a quad-lock? is that some sort of
| phone mount?
| thomasjb wrote:
| Probably an Ibex [1] as they're based on the post-2007
| Landrover Defender dashboard
|
| [1] https://www.ibexvehicles.com
| TheLoafOfBread wrote:
| Oh yes, that's what I want - permanently online, bug ridden OS
| playing me ads and forcing me to buy software "upgrades" of stuff
| already installed in my car.
|
| What a Brave New World.
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(page generated 2023-02-22 23:00 UTC)