[HN Gopher] Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone
___________________________________________________________________
Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone
Author : mmastrac
Score : 739 points
Date : 2023-02-25 17:09 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Nice! I've been waiting for something like the FairPhone to show
| up in the US.
|
| A sweet bonus would be if they also provided and fully supported
| de-googled image or at least had an option to download the de-
| googled image after accepting some disclaimers. Or perhaps even
| set up a public community for phone hackers to help them build
| said image _i.e. crowdsource the work_.
|
| An optional large shell for a bigger battery would be a nice
| upgrade too. My current phone has a 10,000mAh battery and lasts a
| very long time after disabling background networking on most
| apps.
| t0bia_s wrote:
| 10000mAh? Does it fit to your pocket?
|
| Btw degoogling phone almost double battery life.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| It fits in a velcro holster, my jacket pocket and in my snow
| monosuit.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| > snow monosuit
|
| Just makes me picture Maggie Simpson
|
| But to be actually on topic, supporting custom ROMs in
| order to extricate android from Google is my top priority
| when buying a phone.
|
| If this phone gets lineageOS support then it may be the
| perfect phone.
| cwiggs wrote:
| What phone do you have that has a battery that big?
| LinuxBender wrote:
| ulefone Armor. There are a couple other models that have a
| 13200mAh battery.
| toss1 wrote:
| Wow - what a great find! I'll be keeping track of that crew
| for my next phone! ('tho they don't seem to currently
| support Verizon network)
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Yeah I had to go with a TMO reseller here and most of the
| time I am using calling-over-wifi to make up for TMO's
| spotty coverage.
| freddref wrote:
| That's quite a line-up they have! I have a Elephone S3 pro,
| two day battery is really great when traveling, no worries.
| I'll strongly consider an Ulephone next..
| mmastrac wrote:
| I ran a Samsung S5 (?) like this many, many years ago and it
| was pretty cool but holy crap it was a beast. My jeans
| pockets started to stretch out from carrying it, and it was
| impossible to keep it in a jacket pocket at all.
| seltzered_ wrote:
| I did similar with a galaxy S4 (third party battery
| w/special back case to accommodate the larger size). Worked
| nice but eventually the battery bulged.
|
| The tradeoff with replaceable batteries is if when you swap
| the phone loses track of time until finding a cell tower.
| Fine if in range but a risk when hiking far away, and might
| also propagate the wrong time to your smartwatch.
| bombolo wrote:
| It should be able to sync its clock slowly from the GPS
| signal. But I have no clue if the feature is actually
| implemented.
| andrepd wrote:
| >Or perhaps even set up a public community for phone hackers to
| help them build said image i.e. crowdsource the work.
|
| Like xda? :)
| LinuxBender wrote:
| I think they would be perfect. I was hoping they had a rom
| for my phone but I could only find one supporting a really
| old version. If they partnered with Nokia to build supported
| images for their phones that would be incredible.
| wesapien wrote:
| Hopefully, the bootloader is unlocked for third party ROMs like
| Lineage and others
| digitallyfree wrote:
| Honestly it would be a huge selling point for this device if
| it had excellent custom ROM support on top of the
| repairability. There are phones from 2015 still being
| supported today by Lineage.
| mmastrac wrote:
| I use a FP4 in Canada and it's been amazing. I suffer from a
| lack of parts, but I make up with that for excuses to vacation
| in Europe.
| ryukafalz wrote:
| You'll still be waiting, I think. The Verge's coverage says
| it's not coming to the US:
| https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/25/23611844/hmd-nokia-g22-re...
|
| (I've similarly been wanting a FairPhone here.)
| wardedVibe wrote:
| Why do none of the good phone options get sold in the US??!?
| E.g. Sony has one of the few modern smartphones in a
| reasonable size (xperia 10II (might be the dumbest name
| though)), and way too few of the bands work in the American
| market.
| happymellon wrote:
| Didn't the US decide to use different frequencies to
| everyone else?
| Klonoar wrote:
| I feel like I recall reading that getting some
| certification here is more annoying than it should be,
| which means some devices are just straight up not brought
| here - curious if anyone knows if this is true or not.
| lallysingh wrote:
| Doesn't 5g fix that? Same radios for everyone.
| rglullis wrote:
| Plenty of models that can work with all frequencies, so I
| am not sure if that's enough of a justification.
|
| Anyway, your point reminds me that the my "dream
| smartphone" would be one with no cellular connectivity at
| all. I'm still waiting for some company to start
| producing a keychain-sized 4G (or 5G) hotspot with an
| eSIM, which (I hope) would lead to more people asking for
| the return of the iPod Touch _and_ for something
| equivalent in the Android /Mobile Linux/Windows world.
| crispinb wrote:
| > justification
|
| An odd term in this context. No-one has to 'justify' not
| selling their stuff to Americans.
| cesarb wrote:
| > Anyway, your point reminds me that the my "dream
| smartphone" would be one with no cellular connectivity at
| all.
|
| You mean a PDA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_di
| gital_assistant)? Modern smartphones are basically a PDA
| with cellular connectivity (this is more obvious with
| early smartphones like the Treo 650), so if you take out
| the cellular connectivity, what you have is once again a
| PDA.
| dmix wrote:
| You can't complain about availability of phones (or any
| electronics) while being in the US. Try living anywhere
| else like Canada.
| idonotknowwhy wrote:
| Or Australia. I end up importing phones here and missing
| out on some features our shitty telcos don't provide
| unless you have a white listed phone
| amaranth wrote:
| In the US your phone has to be on the whitelist to even
| get service these days. They're using VoLTE as an excuse
| to lock the networks down again.
| ryukafalz wrote:
| We have decent variety in the US, but I think it's fair
| to want phones for specific purposes that aren't
| generally served here. The more repairable phones are
| hard to come by, and as someone who likes trying
| alternative OSes the phones that seem best served by e.g.
| Ubuntu Touch (Volla Phone and Fairphone) aren't
| available.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Oh, darn. Well then maybe Nokia will read these comments and
| hopefully add some of my wish-list before it comes to the US.
| PaulKeeble wrote:
| 5 years for parts is better than nothing but its still a lot of
| e-waste. Ideally given screens and ports and batteries are
| something that have been around for decades and will be around
| for decades more in similar ways it would be nice to extend this
| out longer. With progress on CPUs/GPUs slowing we do need to
| start to consider much longer usable life times for computer
| products and having obsolence built in at 5 years when a
| consumable like the battery fails isn't OK.
|
| OS updates also very short so this phone is quickly going to end
| up on LineageOS.
| charcircuit wrote:
| >but its still a lot of e-waste
|
| Phones are a tiny amount of waste. Trying to get a few extra
| years out of one is a microoptimization in reducing one's waste
| output.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| I'm not sure if the physical volume of the phone in a
| landfill is the only issue to consider. What about all the
| energy and resources used to manufacture it?
| SilverBirch wrote:
| It's kind of sad to see Nokia releasing such niche products. Most
| people really don't care about this "DIY" attitude, and those
| that do immediately shout "Schematics" or "Bootloader". It's a
| bit of a nightmare market to service, and certainly a far cry
| from where Nokia used to be (even in the windows days!). This
| phone is for people who are mad they can't tune the Carburetors
| on their Tesla.
| tony-allan wrote:
| The future I want is more eco-friendly consumer products!
|
| They have outsourced all the repair stuff to iFixit...
|
| https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/self-repair
| Kasutaja11 wrote:
| How about a high end phone now? I want a top tier device with sd
| slot and headphone jack and not a pain in the ass glued in
| everything
| dsr_ wrote:
| This "just" needs a better screen and 50% more RAM and it would
| be quite competitive with $600 phones.
| Hackbraten wrote:
| The Librem 5 is still on backorder as of today but is likely to
| reach shipping parity later this year.
|
| Not exactly top-tier hardware-wise. But the Librem is running a
| mainline Linux kernel, so it will have a decade or more of
| software support and security updates.
| fatih-erikli wrote:
| I wouldn't. It'll explode in your pocket.
| peterlk wrote:
| And it comes with a 3mm headphone jack! Hallelujah!! I'm so, so
| glad someone is stepping up to fill this niche. My only
| complaint, and it's kind if a big one, is that the screen is too
| damn big. I'm tired of phone manufacturers forcing me to carry a
| television in my pocket. I want something small that I can hold
| in one hand without a pop socket. I'll trade performance, camera
| quality, basically anything for a phone with a small form factor.
| behnamoh wrote:
| I had the worst customer support by Nokia. Purchased a Nokia 7
| Plus in another country. The phone had a design issue which
| resulted in loose USB C port. Many people reported the same
| problem online. When I was back in the US, I tried reaching out
| to Nokia support and they literally said their repair center
| won't even accept my phone for repair because I had purchased it
| in another country!
|
| Third party repair shops told me it takes $100 to fix the USB C
| port, almost 1/3 the phone price. Needless to say I didn't do
| that and the phone died shortly after only because it couldn't
| get charged anymore. Switched to other brands and will never buy
| Nokia again.
| tony-allan wrote:
| See Nokia info:
|
| https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-g-22/specs
|
| https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/self-repair
| f311a wrote:
| > The Nokia G22 will cost from PS149.99 shipping on 8 March with
| replacement parts costing PS18.99 for a charging port, PS22.99
| for a battery and PS44.99 for a screen.
|
| So, after a year of use the cost of replacing a battery and the
| screen will be close the market value of a used phone. A lot of
| people will go for a new phone.
| yazzku wrote:
| 22.99 + 44.99 = 67.98
|
| 149.99 / 67.98 = 2.206
|
| So the new phone costs >2x.
|
| Also, why do you need to replace the battery after 1 year, let
| alone the screen?
| f311a wrote:
| New phone does not mean the same model. New phone usually has
| more features and a newer version of Android.
|
| That's how consumers usually think about the benefits of a
| new phone I guess. Very few people care about sustainability.
| yazzku wrote:
| Can't argue with "few people care", but I'm just not sure
| what "new features" or other nonsense you'd be getting.
|
| I think much of the new phone-buying, Apple fanboys aside,
| is that carriers make it easy to constantly upgrade with
| "$0" upgrade plans (where you basically end up paying the
| full cost of the phone anyway.) Legislation to ban or shape
| this kind of advertising could be beneficial to reduce
| e-waste.
| aaronchall wrote:
| Perhaps close in absolute terms but still less than half the
| total price.
|
| I have never had to replace a screen before, but I have bought
| new batteries to replace on my own. An easily replaceable one
| would be nice.
| interblag wrote:
| According to these numbers the combined cost of replacing the
| battery and the screen is 22.99 + 44.99 == 67.98, which is less
| than half (~45.3%) of the cost of the original new phone.
| Comparing that to the market value of a _used_ phone is a bit
| unfair, since screens and batteries drive the depreciation of
| used phones more than any other components (ignoring EoL
| timelines for OS security updates, etc), and in this example
| you 're getting new ones. Plus not everyone needs a new screen
| and battery every year.
|
| This definitely isn't going to be for everyone but, for what
| they're trying to do, IMO the numbers seem reasonable.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Not they haven't this phone isn't anymore repairable than an
| iPhone it might be just a bit more serviceable.
|
| Users can't do board or component level repairs, and Nokia isn't
| making schematics, diagnostic software and access to low level
| firmware that will be needed to independently repair this phone
| available.
|
| User replaceable battery is nice, however every other component
| is reliant on a supply on parts being made available for the long
| run which is unlikely to happen since there will never be a
| healthy supply chain for niche devices.
|
| I've serviced multiple iPhones replacing a battery and broken
| screens with no equipment other than what came in the kit (and an
| hair dryer) and not the Apple one.
|
| Yes it's a PITA but honestly they open easily with a hair dryer
| and a suction cup.
|
| What is far more important on the "right to repair" front is long
| term software support which the lack of bricks far more devices
| than any hardware failures, a healthy supply chain and not DRMing
| components.
|
| The former 2 is something that iFixIt always seems to ignore
| especially the first one the latter is something I that should be
| the focus of RtR legislation together with a guarantee for parts
| being made available for a period of X years from when the
| devices officially stop being sold just in the same way that car
| manufacturers and in the past appliance manufacturers were forced
| to.
| ali7388 wrote:
| Users can order cheap parts from china just fine.
|
| The problem is with manufacturers. Encrypting parts, so simple
| part swap does not work. Or replacement screen for $300...
|
| Apple is really really bad when it comes to repairability!
| zamnos wrote:
| "Encrypting" parts also has to do with the black market for
| iPhones. If you steal someone's iPhone, they can brick it
| remotely, so you can't just resell it as a whole working
| device, so you part it out to a shady cell phone repair store
| who will reuse the parts and give you like fifty bucks so you
| can score your next bag of drugs. By embedding serial numbers
| on the parts, Apple stops this and makes the parts unusable,
| driving down the value of a stolen iPhone.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Users can if there is a supply chain for them.
|
| Apple isn't that bad, and being able to find parts for 10
| year old devices and actually having nearly a decade of
| software support makes up for it.
|
| Ofc it would be better if they didn't lock down parts further
| at least the screen and battery aren't locked down yet.
|
| I replaced a screen on an iPhone XS not even a month ago with
| a PS30 kit from Amazon that came with everything needed
| including a new liquid protection seal.
|
| Apple should definitely get flack what what they do but this
| pathetic attempt is just that pathetic this isn't a way
| forward in any practical manner.
|
| If you really think you'll be able to find parts for this
| phone in 5 years then well I got a bridge to sell you. And
| not for nothing it will turn into a paper weight after the 3
| years of software support period will be over.
| gandalfian wrote:
| Shame no compass or gyroscope, both of which I value. I hope the
| idea catches on though the toolkit looks suspiciously like ever
| other mobiles. Lift screen with sucker while prying with pick.
| Then unscrew battery and admittedly wrestle with glue... Still a
| way from the old fashioned, pop off the plastic back and lift the
| battery straight out in 20 seconds.
| baybal2 wrote:
| [dead]
| donutshop wrote:
| If GrapheneOS could support this phone that would be a killer
| combo.
| cristiioan wrote:
| I don't think Graphene OS will support anything else than
| Pixels and posibily in the future a custom phone made for
| Graphene OS[https://www.androidpolice.com/graphene-os-phone/]
| CameronNemo wrote:
| This depends on the phone having an unlockable/relockable
| bootloader.
| s5300 wrote:
| FWIW:
|
| Bought Nokia 7.1 after it came out and it was a great phone
|
| However, because of a chassis design flaw the charge port had
| excess leverage applied on it practically no matter what - had to
| replace charge port 6 times & battery twice over ~1.5 years.
|
| Before that I had a Samsung Moto X Pure for idk how many years
| (got on release date), which I only had to replace an aged
| capacity battery once - no charge port issues to speak of (so it
| wasn't me being excessively clumsy with the Nokia)
|
| Swore off of Nokia after that experience along with a few other
| flaws in the phone... and I _really_ wanted to like that phone.
|
| Currently using 13 Pro Max as first Apple device & have been
| loving it.
|
| Hopefully Nokia can make themselves look good with this phone,
| but it will probably take many years of good faith from them for
| me to ever reconsider
|
| Also: I've been waiting on Nokias Withings watches to release
| their medical applications in the US for _years_ now.
|
| They could perhaps not get folks with medical issues hopes up if
| there is any reason something could be delayed for _multiple
| years_ ...
| herf wrote:
| It's IP52 rated, so not water-safe like the IP67 and IP68 from
| other smartphones. But it probably costs less to fix even so.
| t0bia_s wrote:
| 76.2mm weight is huge. No deal to me unfortunately. Otherwise
| great idea that hopefully be a standard in future.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Wow HN. I really interesting new product comes out, a really
| interesting turn in the right to repair debate, and a return of a
| famous brand.
|
| And instead of talking about that, there are a series of threads
| about how an iphone costing 5 times as much and is famously
| difficult to repair is a better phone than this. Get a grip! Can
| we not have a least one conversation without Apple fanbois wading
| in?
| sva_ wrote:
| Thats like the recent thread where someone asked for a good
| Linux laptop, and the top comment was to buy a mac.
|
| I'll never understand this brand loyalism/consumer mentality,
| and to what lengths Apple folks will go to promote, justify,
| and defend their purchase decisions.
| nazka wrote:
| I don't get it. Why a Mac cannot be a good Linux laptop?
| eptcyka wrote:
| They can, but none of the current ones are well supported.
| nazka wrote:
| Ah ok thanks. Is it because of the new M1/M2
| architecture?
| traviswt wrote:
| I think Asahi Linux is where the progress is. Looking
| promising but rough. Lots of reverse engineering.
| sva_ wrote:
| I think you'd have to be willing to be extremely
| enthusiastic dealing with all the shortcomings of the
| experimental support currently. Maybe older MacBooks are
| somewhat supported, but the ARM (Asahi Linux) is alpha
| right now, and a lot of stuff simply isn't implemented.
|
| There's also some individual differences, i.e. from what
| I've heard you won't ever be able to run something like the
| Xen Hypervisor as Apple didn't fully implement the Arm spec
| s.t. some opcodes are missing.
| willhslade wrote:
| I'm not going to wade into this flamewar but I will say one
| thing. Apple is what it says on the tin. It's a curated
| garden that mostly just works. At a certain point in your
| life and your career you don't have weekends to spare on side
| projects and, especially in the tools that you use the most
| to interact with the Internet (phone, laptop) you want it to
| work the first time. I've flirted with Linux and for what it
| is, it's great, but I'm mostly done with hunting down drivers
| not working. Apple gives me my time back.
| Klonoar wrote:
| So just to be clear: you want to discuss a smartphone, in a
| vacuum, completely ignoring what - barring a few select Android
| phones - effectively sets the bar for the industry.
|
| It's not "fanbois", it's just reality. HN isn't the one that
| needs to get a grip here.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| People could compare the Nokia to comparable phones perhaps?
| There are other repairable phones available, although I don't
| recall any this cheap?
|
| In other news my Ford is not as comfortable as your Rolls
| Royce, and my Sekonda watch is not going to last like your
| Rolex....
| [deleted]
| Klonoar wrote:
| _> People could compare the Nokia to comparable phones
| perhaps?_
|
| They could! And in fact, do.
|
| OP, however, is complaining about _the existence_ of the
| Apple comparison, which is simply unavoidable. I 'm just
| responding that instead of complaining about it, move on to
| the discussions that float your boat.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Since when has Apple ever made an easily repairable budget
| anything? This is a niche in which Apple is non existent.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Since last year their phones have best ranking
| https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability
|
| (Yes Fairphone have excellent score too, but they are
| basically ancient)
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Not sure how you read that as the best ranking. Only
| among flagship phones, which is a market where
| repairability is largely an afterthought.
|
| Fairphone is a repairable budget phone. You can't compare
| budget to flagship on performance or modernity of the
| hardware. That makes no sense.
| dartharva wrote:
| The iPhone does not set any bar for budget phones.
| Irrelevant.
| Klonoar wrote:
| It's not irrelevant. :)
|
| Buying a "budget" phone that has no guarantee of long term
| parts availability, OS upgrades, etc is certainly worth
| comparing to Apple's lowest cost devices factored out over
| the sheer number of years they offer support/service for. I
| appreciate the aspect of right-to-repair on this device and
| I'm not saying the device shouldn't exist, but it's the
| height of absurdity to think it wouldn't get compared to
| Apple's devices at some point in the conversation.
|
| Hell, even conversations about the Fairphone end up drawing
| these same comparisons since Apple's recycling program is
| pretty good.
| smoldesu wrote:
| That's one way of looking at it.
|
| On the other side of the coin, _all_ Apple devices have
| an expiry date. Many Android phones unlock their
| bootloader and enable community support after the vendor
| has thrown in the towel. Nothing similar exists on iOS,
| and it 's a damn shame - it forces Apple to depreciate
| usable hardware. In a world where reuse and reduction is
| preferable to recycling, Apple should stop pretending
| like it's free recycling program is a replacement for
| serviceable design and open hardware. Until Apple stops
| being a necessary step of the recycling process,
| recycling iPhones is no easier than disposing of
| Asbestos.
|
| People (rightfully) get pissed when others shit on
| camera-shy companies like Nokia or Dell trying something
| repair-friendly. You're like the person who's saying that
| nobody should buy the Raspberry Pi because your 1u
| rackmount has better performance-per-dollar. You're not
| wrong, but it's an apples-to-oranges product comparison.
| lopatin wrote:
| I just assumed the repair kit is for anything the Nokia is
| dropped on rather than the phone itself.
| mikkom wrote:
| It's worth noting that even if this phone is called "Nokia"
| it doesn't have much to do with original Nokia phones. It's a
| new company that bought the rights to use the Nokia brand
| name.
| e63f67dd-065b wrote:
| There's a funny story here, HMD Global just so happens to
| have very similar execs and employees as the former Nokia,
| some of whom work in the HQ that just so happens to be
| right across from the old Nokia HQ. The company is very
| much a spiritual successor to Nokia.
| sheeparepayed wrote:
| Maybe the Apple fanboys are payed to help manufacture demand.
| Wouldn't be ao far fetched.
| Towaway69 wrote:
| Or keeping the price up on the second hand market?
| nonethewiser wrote:
| > And instead of talking about that, there are a series of
| threads about how an iphone costing 5 times as much and is
| famously difficult to repair is a better phone than this. Get a
| grip! Can we not have a least one conversation without Apple
| fanbois wading in?
|
| I agree with your sentiment but think we overestimate how much
| people value right to repair. This is some proof.
| justinclift wrote:
| > we overestimate how much people value right to repair.
|
| After all this time, perhaps it's more stockholm syndrome?
| rconti wrote:
| And instead, I join the comments, and the top-rated post is a
| counter-rant about Apple fanbois that's frankly no more
| constructive or useful than the content it's complaining about.
| izacus wrote:
| I've noticed that modern Americans really really really dispise
| choice on the market. If it differs even a little bit from the
| average, watered down "majority" choice, it's immediately
| attacked and disparaged. You need to be part of the ingroup,
| have the same brands in your hand and on your body. Like the
| 1984 Apple ad - everyone with gray iphone, gray MacBook and
| AirPods in their ears.
| zamnos wrote:
| Why do I have such a different impression? I go to a
| supermarket and see 30 different kinds of toothpaste, 50
| kinds of chips, and a dozen different kinds of alcoholic
| seltzer waters in the liquor aisle. The paradox of choice is
| tiring!
| arcanemachiner wrote:
| An easy fix is to have a modicum of self esteem.
| hot_gril wrote:
| No. I have nothing against choice, I just want the best
| phone, and it's not this. If only there were a thriving set
| of standards for mobile/desktop web apps that obviates the
| need to stick to the iPhone/Android OS duopoly cemented by
| their app stores, I'd probably change phones.
| bitdeveloper wrote:
| I mean, I have to figure out which peanut butter to buy from
| a shelf of 37 peanut butters. If anything, there's too much
| choice in a lot of cases. It's tiring.
|
| I've heard way more Android users disparaging iPhones than
| vice versa. If anything, the fault of iPhone users is not
| even knowing or caring anything else exists.
| tomrod wrote:
| > one conversation without Apple fanbois wading in?
|
| Aye. Almost like we shouldn't have a conversation about Android
| without mentioning the spyware and telemetry that both Android
| and IOS collect being more than enough reason to use Purism and
| other open alternatives.
|
| #stallman_was_right
| rektide wrote:
| Right to repair, but the software is uttely unmaintainable &
| actively rotting.
|
| This is cool, but it shows how bad the Android world is. The
| hardware is only half the picture.
|
| Iphone just happens to be the obvious comparison.
| jrm4 wrote:
| Seriously, what is meant by this?
|
| I'm asking as someone who way back when had a nokia n900, did
| some android rooting, then when that got unrewarding
| essentially switched to "whatever is second cheapest at Best
| Buy at the time" and have had zero major problems doing
| pretty much all the regular life things (and this includes
| e.g. Pokemon Go with the kids?)
| rektide wrote:
| Few phones even support rooting anymore. Most phones never
| ever get a new kernel, & most kernels are incredibly
| difficult vendor-provided messes whose source is basically
| useless, utterly incompatible with upstream Linux & unable
| to be applied at all to newer kernel versions. Maybe maybe
| maybe the new Android plan of creating stable interfaces
| for drivers improves this but it's to soon to tell.
|
| The n900 was from an actual Linux era. Versus Android which
| was a sideways port of Danger's mobile OS onto Linux, &
| unlike Maemo ignoring the entire Linux userland/freedesktop
| stack.
| pimeys wrote:
| I've been looking for a browser extension I could use to filter
| certain things out from my internet feeds. For example making
| anything related to Apple completely vanish for me. I wonder
| could the GPT be utilized for this?
| cwillu wrote:
| I made an Ask HN post on this subject a while back. Got 10
| upvotes before it got flagged and hidden. :)
| pimeys wrote:
| I actually stopped reading HN as much as I used to in the
| past 10+ years because of this. I found out running a small
| fediverse server and just curating my own feed keeps all
| the Apple stuff out from my view, and it's also easy to
| just hide/ban/filter people. It's sad, because I really
| don't want to jump in into many HN threads anymore...
| capableweb wrote:
| User-scripts is what you're looking for, commonly use to
| customize your browsing experience with small JS scripts. Can
| be run with for example TamperMonkey. Writing a script that
| blacks out or filters comments with a mention of Apple would
| be trivial ("if .comment's innerText contains Apple,
| $element.remove()" in short)
| r0fl wrote:
| Why would I care about a DIY repair phone? Am I to assume that
| all of a sudden I'm a phone repair expert and when I take my
| phone apart I'll be able to put it together perfectly and keep
| the same waterproof levels as a manufacturer would?
|
| This is at best an out of the box marketing gimmick by Nokia to
| sell some phones.
| [deleted]
| liendolucas wrote:
| Yes, but is not only the right to repair. For how long Nokia is
| willing to manufacture spare parts for this phone? A year, two?
| What if after 3 year my phone breaks and I can't repair it not
| because a repair issue per se but because of part availability.
| This already happened to me with a Nokia 7 Plus, which is a
| phone I like because it came with Android One. Now on the tech
| side, the phone is just fine, camera specs, screen is really
| good, battery is still good. I broke the charging board and the
| screen. Original parts for it no longer produced, only OEM ones
| with lower quality. So I would take this with a grain of salt.
| So will I need to buy the phone and immediately a pack of spare
| parts just in case because tomorrow they will be no longer
| available?
| bingo-bongo wrote:
| To be fair: "..and genuine parts available for five years
| via.."
|
| ..but even so, it's still a valid concern.
| SergeAx wrote:
| Apple fanboys really need to convince themselves that their
| phones are better, otherwise it's an existential threat for
| their egos.
| stodor89 wrote:
| No, it seems we can't. Welcome to 2023!
| dotnet00 wrote:
| Fawning over Apple products is inescapable here. Anything with
| a CPU must be compared to overly magical interpretations of an
| M1's capabilities.
| mlinksva wrote:
| The positive (and there's plenty of criticism; search and read)
| point being made about iphone is that it has a longer support
| duration. This seems highly complementary to repairability --
| both seem important to maximize useful life -- and thus an
| entirely fair point, no?
|
| I'm recently on my 4th Android smartphone in 12 years (Galaxy
| S, Moto G, Pixel 2, Pixel 7) and would be still on the Pixel 2
| if not for lack of updates, as it's still completely fine
| hardware wise. I guess if I had been an Apple fanboi, I
| would've had at least 1 fewer phones in that time period.
| Really made me think this last time. Hoping my eventual 5th
| smartphone will have very long support and very good
| repariability.
| logifail wrote:
| > The positive (and there's plenty of criticism; search and
| read) point being made about iphone is that it has a longer
| support duration
|
| Yup, and the OTA updates with Tesla are also better than
| you'd get on a car that's 1/10th of the price. Isn't it just
| a little bit over-entitled to bring up any iPhone _in a
| discussion about budget phones_?
|
| Newsflash: the vast majority of the planet can't afford to
| drop $1000+ on a mobile device.
| mlinksva wrote:
| Newsflash (just looked it up), an iphone se is $429, a used
| one is cheaper, and factoring in support duration, may be
| cheaper yet. A friend who would've been among the last
| people I'd expect to use an iphone blogged this
| https://announce.asheesh.org/2022/09/i-switched-to-iphone-
| fo...
|
| I'm really embarrased by this (I've been a borderline Apple
| hater basically my whole life) but also acknowledge
| reality.
| logifail wrote:
| > a used one is cheaper, and factoring in support
| duration, may be cheaper yet
|
| Q: For all those hundreds of millions of people who have
| paid less than $150 for their phone, how many of them
| even gave a second thought to _the support duration_ when
| they decided what to purchase?
| mlinksva wrote:
| I'd guess approximately the same number as those who have
| given a second thought to repairability, i.e.,
| negligible. I'm all for increasing demand for both at the
| margins, including as part of savvier consumers'
| financial calculus.
| rustymonday wrote:
| I had an iPhone 4 many years ago, and Apple nerfed it with
| software updates when the iPhone 6 came out. These updates
| significantly slowed down the phone, pretty much forcing me
| to get a new one after only two years. So I bought an Android
| and never looked back.
| vanilla_nut wrote:
| Wouldn't that be 4 years? I also had an iPhone 4 ruined by
| the last iOS updates, but because of the S years it was:
| 4->4S->5->5S->6, so 4 years before battery life and
| performance went bad.
| whitemary wrote:
| Apple actually lost a lawsuit over this, but of course it
| didn't matter because the capitalist government theatre is
| controlled by the ruling class protecting their own, so
| Apple still came out on top.
| arcanemachiner wrote:
| The iPhone 4 slowdown came several years before
| "batterygate".
| naijaboiler wrote:
| i remember my initial ipad2. Yeah new ipads came out,
| updated, and the old one became too slow to use after the
| updates. I hated apple products for a long time after
| that. that was 2013
| qwytw wrote:
| IIRC due to the degrading/faulty(?) batteries they had to
| choose between random shutdowns and slowing down the
| phone. I'm not sure I agree with the way they handled
| this but I don't think they did that because of
| "corporate greed".
| Nextgrid wrote:
| I wouldn't be so generous. Slowing down the phone without
| any notification is a major problem. Had they added a
| notification this was happening, there would be no
| problems at all.
|
| Of course, adding such a notification would've prompted
| many users to seek out battery replacements (and a lot of
| non-Apple-authorized repair shops would've been happy to
| meet this demand) and give a new life to their devices,
| where as silently slowing down their device would prompt
| those users to eventually upgrade once they get tired of
| it.
| goosedragons wrote:
| Yeah, they didn't tell Apple Geniuses either IIRC so when
| users came into the store complaining about a slow phone
| they weren't recommending a $99 battery replacement but a
| $699 iPhone 7.
| bmitc wrote:
| > The positive point being made about iphone is that it has a
| longer support duration.
|
| How so? Apple iPhones have one year warranties, are
| notoriously difficult to repair, and Apple charges an arm and
| a leg to "repair" them (usually by basically forcing you to
| do a trade-in and buy a new phone). Apple products will also
| quickly degrade over iOS upgrades.
|
| For example, my iPad Air 2 can barely browse the web with no
| other apps open.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > How so? Apple iPhones have one year warranties, are
| notoriously difficult to repair ...
|
| I think your parent was talking about OS support.
| mlinksva wrote:
| How so? Apologies for not being specific, I was referring
| to support for security updates.
| tomrod wrote:
| > This seems highly complementary to repairability -- both
| seem important to maximize useful life -- and thus an
| entirely fair point, no?
|
| Repairability is more that once you buy it, you actually own
| it.
|
| Apple does not support this model. Real repairability is when
| you can hack all components of hardware and software in your
| domain (which precludes hacking against cell towers, ISP
| telecom equipment, etc.).
| TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
| Nor do most Android vendors.
| tomrod wrote:
| Correct, though that isn't concomitant to the point under
| discussion.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > I'm recently on my 4th Android smartphone in 12 years
| (Galaxy S, Moto G, Pixel 2, Pixel 7) and would be still on
| the Pixel 2 if not for lack of updates, as it's still
| completely fine hardware wise. I guess if I had been an Apple
| fanboi, I would've had at least 1 fewer phones in that time
| period. Really made me think this last time.
|
| In regards to longterm OS support, iPhones have been getting
| better and better[1]. 6-7 years is pretty darn good for the
| last batch to fall out of support (6+, 7, and SE). It'll be
| interesting to see when the next batch (8 and X) of iPhones
| falls off the cliff.
|
| ---
|
| 1. https://www.statista.com/chart/5824/ios-iphone-
| compatibility...
| MrStonedOne wrote:
| [dead]
| gambiting wrote:
| On the other hand I can still get modern versions of android
| with all the security updates for some ancient android
| phones, you just have to do a tiny bit of tinkering with
| unlocking the bootloader first. That's something you can't do
| with any iPhone.
| lallysingh wrote:
| Does that compete much against a $150-ish phone with 3 years
| of software support and super cheap, user replacable parts? I
| think it's making excuses that the iPhone isn't just a giant
| burning money pit for customers. Why are folks in a
| completely different market segment comparing the two?
| nhchris wrote:
| They're comparing them because software support _shouldn
| 't_ be a problem, regardless of market segment. You can run
| fully up to date linux on 15 year old computers, but in
| moving to phones, they destroyed what we took for granted.
| This is a manufactured problem, and it's no coincidence
| that it lines the pockets of smartphone makers.
| lallysingh wrote:
| Support costs money, and it's part of the price. This
| moralizing is ridiculous.
| acdha wrote:
| That's why this discussion matters: Apple devices have
| much longer lifespans because their economic model is
| correctly aligned -- Apple doesn't mind if you hold your
| iPhone for years because your use of things like the App
| Store, Apple Music, etc. also fund their OS development.
|
| On Android, that's fractured: Qualcomm wants you buying a
| new phone every year or two because they only get paid
| for CPUs and Google doesn't want to subsidize them with
| Play purchases.
|
| This is amplified because the architecture prevents
| people from doing their own support. A PC user can run
| Linux even if Microsoft gives up because the boot loader
| isn't locked to prevent it, although driver support does
| show there are still problems here for the fraction of
| hardware without robust open source drivers or documented
| firmware.
|
| My ideal fix for this would be legislative, requiring
| mandatory minimum support lifetimes (say 7-10 years for
| at least prompt security updates) and some threshold for
| requiring boot loader unlocking. The only Android device
| I had was a Lenovo tablet which they never updated to the
| OS version released a month or so _before_ the hardware,
| and which became unsafe to use on the internet many years
| before the hardware failed (we used it as a white noise
| generator for a baby). That's a ton of e-waste which
| could have been avoided if they weren't allowed to just
| walk away from support because they didn't sell enough
| units to care.
| nhchris wrote:
| That's my point - it _doesn 't_ cost money on PC. I don't
| need "support" from my motherboard vendor to install the
| latest linux.
| lallysingh wrote:
| Yeah. Part of that is radio support (open source phone
| projects have had this problem) and packaging - you still
| need a separate packaged image per phone model. Openmoko
| had the support problem (iirc) pretty early on.
|
| Until those ecosystem issues are fixed, dumping on a $150
| phone for concessions that a $800-1000 phone doesn't have
| to make us pretty ridiculous.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| > radio support
|
| What do you mean? Wireless cards on PCs are dirt cheap
| and have fantastic forwards-compatibility with future OS
| releases. There's no reason mobile network cards should
| be any different.
|
| > you still need a separate packaged image per phone
| model
|
| Only if you insist on packaging the image yourself. If
| you don't lock bootloaders and provide API/ABI
| documentation on how to interact with your hardware
| (through a binary blob if necessary), the community will
| often do the rest.
|
| The Android update dumpster fire is a self-inflicted
| problem.
| nhchris wrote:
| > Until those ecosystem issues are fixed
|
| Again, that is my point. No company has any incentive, or
| has made any moves to, fix the ecosystem. They're happy
| how there are no standards or documented APIs, how
| everything is a closed binary blob that changes from one
| insignificant version to the next. They don't demand any
| kind of support or openness from hardware suppliers, they
| don't form any standards or demand adherence to them,
| despite their massive market power (if Samsung wanted
| open or standards-compliant hardware, they'd get it),
| _because they directly financially benefit from the
| broken status quo they created_.
|
| > concessions that a $800-1000 phone doesn't have to make
|
| You can spend 2x that on an Android phone, and the
| software situation won't be any better. This is
| deliberate.
| [deleted]
| lallysingh wrote:
| Actually this phone is less then 1/4th the price
| crabbone wrote:
| This is disingenuous.
|
| If price was the reason, we'd have phones with longer
| term support at a higher price point. The problem is that
| support is _cheaper_ than making new stuff, but the
| companies would rather sell a more expensive good if they
| can prevent customers from buying the cheaper option.
|
| Support is cheaper for customers because companies
| providing support have to invest into something customers
| want, but doesn't create the same competitive advantage
| in the market where stakes are always rising. I.e.
| companies are incentivized to replace rather than support
| because they need to amortize the cost of R&D that goes
| into making phones with more memory / storage / cameras /
| hoo-hoo-ga-ga. If instead the effort is diverted into
| support, that effort doesn't generate future revenues as
| much as the effort spent on, well, future technologies.
|
| So, the customers don't get good service not because it's
| impossible or prohibitively expensive, but because of the
| lack of a free platform (equivalent to Linux on PC), and
| a lack of regulation that would make it necessary for
| manufacturers to provide longer term support to their
| products (which would've leveled the field, because
| everyone would have to provide similar length of service,
| and so the competitive edge would stay the same).
|
| As long as the manufacturers are in the rats race for the
| fraction of the future market, they'll cut every corner
| possible to get a bigger slice. The cost and the price
| _today_ aren 't as much of a concern for them as the
| survival in the next few years.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Depends how likely either one is to break. I haven't had
| case on my latest iPhones for 4 years and never seen break
| it at all. Also - how waterproof is this Nokia?
| leoedin wrote:
| I think I've had 3 phones in the time my wife has had 1
| iPhone 7. Every time I buy a new phone I'm like "but Android
| is cheaper", but I'm fairly sure the lifetime cost of "phone"
| is in her favour at this point. I think my next phone will be
| an iPhone.
| dmix wrote:
| Don't forget AppleCare+ if you do. Not worrying about
| broken screens ($200/each replacement without vs $30
| service fee, with $100 one time AppleCare fee for 2yrs) and
| getting replacement phones on the spot for other damage is
| really a huge anxiety relief and comes with more savings
| than the initial cost. That what helps turn a "phone a
| year" into 3yrs.
|
| Does Google offer something equivalent to AppleCare for
| Pixel phones? I guess there's think like Best Buy extended
| warranties but I've never had to use one for a phone. I'm
| curious how it compares.
| 1986 wrote:
| They do, with uBreakIFix providing fulfillment: https://s
| tore.google.com/us/magazine/preferred_care?hl=en-US
| dmix wrote:
| Nice looks like it's the exact same service fees for
| broken sceens and accidental damage. They copied it
| wholesale to be competitive. Which is a good idea.
| geraldwhen wrote:
| AppleCare will hand you a new phone if you break a new,
| flagship model before they have spare parts. I suspect
| "UbreakIfix" will not do this.
| ptoo wrote:
| Re the AppleCare+ point. If you are unlikely to break a
| screen more frequently than every 2 years on average,
| it's more economical to just not get the service. This is
| ignoring other benefits the AppleCare+ may provide.
| bombolo wrote:
| I used to never break screens, but the newer larger
| phones crack, at least on the corners.
| crabbone wrote:
| I only ever had one smartphone, and that's Samsung Galaxy
| S7 (bought in the year it hit the market: 2016). I will
| have to replace it very soon though because my banking app
| is going to stop supporting the Android version it has, and
| Samsung doesn't provide upgrades.
|
| But... it's not really Android's fault anymore than this is
| Samsung's fault. The phone itself is in a good condition.
| The battery holds the charge for almost as long as it used
| to when bought. Maybe I'm not a typical user, or have very
| modest use patterns that allowed this phone to survive this
| long. Whichever this is, it shows that it's not really a
| problem of Android (I don't like the system for other
| reasons).
|
| Before replacing, I'm going to try to install LineageOS on
| it, and, we'll see, maybe I'll get another couple years out
| of it.
|
| At the same time span, my wife burned through 4
| smartphones. All of them died for reasons unrelated to the
| operating system they have (i.e. were dropped, stolen etc.)
| It's possible that being, in general, cheaper and more
| disposable, Android phones don't live as long as iPhones,
| but this doesn't mean they shouldn't or cannot live just as
| long.
| carlmr wrote:
| >Whichever this is, it shows that it's not really a
| problem of Android
|
| It kind of is though because Android allows for phone
| brands to tweak the stock OS and stop updating even if
| the OS itself is getting updates.
|
| If Android forced all manufacturers to use the stock OS
| with updates, the phone could still get updates, no?
| asmor wrote:
| At least when I still used Android, some SoC
| manufacturers made unmaintainable hacky patches for one
| specific kernel tree (and sometimes the manufacturer
| would then add more customizations to make it even worse)
| and you'd be stuck on that kernel forever.
| nottorp wrote:
| My iPjone XS will turn 4 years old in 2 months. I see no
| reason to change it.
|
| Maybe in 2 more years...
|
| As for hardware repairs should I need them... there are 3rd
| party shops. Dont care what Apple says about genuine parts
| or approved parts or whatever.
| roywashere wrote:
| I have two teenagers. One has an iPhone and he needed a
| screen replacement already three times. The other is on
| android and he just had his screen broken and bought a new
| one, a cheap Samsung phone. Screen replacements are just as
| expensive on both ecosystems. But sometimes it is nice to
| be able to get an affordable, fresh phone, and not have to
| worry as much about loss or theft
|
| Also the top tier Samsungs are more expensive than iPhones
| nowadays
| gman83 wrote:
| FYI you can get LineageOS 20 (Android 13) for your Pixel 2
| with the latest updates: https://www.xda-
| developers.com/lineageos-20-google-pixel-2-a...
| mlinksva wrote:
| That's defnitely a big benefit. I used LineageOS (whatever
| it was called then) to extend the life of my Galaxy S, but
| at that time not having a working phone for awhile was a
| lot less disruptive to life and work, so I didn't attempt
| this time. But once I'm 100% migrated to my new Pixel 7,
| I'll certainly put an alternative ROM on the Pixel 2 to
| extend its non-phone life!
| moremetadata wrote:
| >I used LineageOS (whatever it was called then)
|
| It used to be called CyanogenMod and it was easily hacked
| by the UK authority's.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Whereas the big vendors don't need hacking, the UK
| authorities just have to ask
| pizza234 wrote:
| I used to be a fan of LineageOS, but after a few devices,
| I've found that it's not very robust (for different
| reasons).
|
| There's a bug where location services don't work (and
| require a fix). Then my latest phone where I've installed
| reboots randomly one or more times per day. Both bugs are
| reported, and affect other users.
|
| The camera app of LineageOS 19 was terrible, and wasn't
| able to handle the two cameras of one phone where I've
| tried it.
|
| I will use it in order to make my phone last longer, but I
| don't have high hopes (and I'm not a big fan anymore).
| scns wrote:
| There is this [0]. Gonna fire up Android Studio tomorrow
| and try to get the release build going.
|
| 0: https://github.com/SebaUbuntu/android_packages_apps_Ap
| erture
| testTED wrote:
| Whose "latest updates"?
| pedrocr wrote:
| Last time I used LineageOS while you got the Android
| updates on most devices the underlying kernel and drivers
| were stuck at whatever the manufacturer originally shipped,
| and that included a bunch of security problems on most
| phones. Android security and updates is still a mess after
| all these years. For a while Android One seemed to help and
| I bought all my phones off that list, but even that's now
| gone. At this point anything that's not a Pixel within the
| (very short) support window is probably a big risk. Google
| really screwed this up.
| cookiengineer wrote:
| This is all fixed now. Android 11 based ROMs introduced
| GSI (generic system images) which allow over the air
| updates and they even work with LineageOS.
|
| Needs a newer underlying linux kernel though, so all the
| outdated 2.x kernel ports won't be compatible.
|
| But I agree with you in your general point. Android OEM
| ROMs are a joke when it comes to support and they usually
| are out of date within the first year due to lack of
| maintenance on the vendor side.
|
| I wish there was a more generic platform approach to this
| where drivers could be just packages instead of this
| whole statically built images mess that is also unusable
| for most endusers.
| dominojab wrote:
| [dead]
| hammock wrote:
| > The point being made about iphone is that it has a longer
| support duration. This seems highly complementary to
| repairability
|
| Seems like you might call that "software repairability"
| mlinksva wrote:
| No, I'd just call it software support duration, or more
| narrowly software security update duration. "Software
| repairability" basically means FOSS (though I don't want to
| underestimate what creative people will do without source
| or permission).
| cjsplat wrote:
| To be clear, the Pixel 2 is unsecurable at reasonable
| performance against Spectre style attacks.
|
| Might not matter to some.
| ENGNR wrote:
| It's the meta rules:
|
| I agree - upvote
|
| I disagree - leave a comment
|
| But to buck the trend - go Nokia, a phone like an x86 is a
| great thing for hackers and to break monopolies, fingers
| crossed it finds and connects with a large consumer segment
| smoldesu wrote:
| Nothing brings people on HN together like technology, business,
| and valiently defending Apple from any form of grounded
| criticism.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| Unlockable bootloader? HTC Nokia hasn't been permitting that so
| far.
| pcdoodle wrote:
| Sweet, $44 for an OEM screen is pretty good. Thank you Nokia. If
| there's a de-google option, this would be the best.
|
| EDIT: 3.5mm headphone jack too! Wow.
| tarkin2 wrote:
| I wonder how this compares to the cheapest basic Samsung Android
| phone, A03 or similar. I'll definitely consider this as my next
| phone should the current one need throwing.
| aspyct wrote:
| This will be nice if and only if there is a way to install a
| custom android version.
|
| Otherwise it'll be bogged down with bloatware and will be useless
| as soon as security updates aren't available anymore.
|
| But if so, very nice :)
| hakfoo wrote:
| I have a G20, and it's pretty vanilla Android stock.
|
| I'm actually excited for this. My family tends to shop in this
| price range, and you've got a lot of fairly interchangeable
| phones out there. It ends up being sort of frustrating because
| there's no obvious right choice.
|
| Now you have a simple argument. You don't have to deep dive
| explain to Mom the difference between CPUs or manufacturer
| update policies, just "If this one breaks, it can be fixed
| without a huge production number."
|
| There was a time when one of the (admittedly secondary)
| arguments for buying an iPhone or Galaxy S (as opposed to a
| cheaper alternative) was that the local fix shops had a lot of
| dead scrap units and could arrange for a cheap quick fix, while
| if you bought a Nokia or Umidigi, you were waiting weeks for
| them to get parts and it was probably twice the cost because
| they didn't want to work on a phone they weren't wildly
| familiar with.
| studentik wrote:
| I imagine IntelliJ running on Archlinux from Nokia phone with
| wireless high-resolution glasses display
| kornhole wrote:
| Until someone builds an OS variant for it, you can use the UAD
| (Universal Android Debloater) found on Github to remove most of
| that.
| johnny22 wrote:
| are you sure it doesn't? My low end "nokia" from HMD Global has
| an option to unlock the bootloader. Maybe this one does as
| well.
| not_your_vase wrote:
| It's a hit or miss with them... my old Nokia 6.1 (ditto HMD)
| came with no option to unlock the bootloader.
|
| Based on some superficial Googling, this phone's predecessor,
| G21 also comes without an unlockable bootloader.
| johnny22 wrote:
| ah. my 6.2 does have an unlockable bootloader.
| cvalka wrote:
| There's no bloatware since Nokia's Android is Android one.
| However, the bootloader is locked and their Android's EOF is
| abysmal which is crazy.
| PufPufPuf wrote:
| Do they seriously lock the bootloader of a "repairable"
| phone? That's the most important feature for me, which has
| prolonged the life of all my Android devices by several
| years.
| Groxx wrote:
| As long as there's a way to unlock it, does it matter? Do
| it once and it's done forever.
| cristiioan wrote:
| Android one isn't dead?
| stephc_int13 wrote:
| I'd love seeing a market for DIY smartphones, in the same vein of
| the good old PC but also DIY drones or mechanical keyboards.
|
| That would be an opportunity for specialized boutique suppliers
| and probably for some innovation, even as a relatively niche
| market.
|
| I have not seen much evolution in this space during the last 5-7
| years, and I think the form factor is pretty much settled.
| Longevity and repairability are things we should prioritize, but
| ownership and customization are also important.
|
| All of that could be built on standardized hardware, something
| close to the Raspberry Pi or Arduino.
|
| I would not mind too much if the device was slightly
| bulkier/heavier in the end, I think we could achieve much better
| value.
| solarkraft wrote:
| I'm happy about this! But, while repairability is always great, a
| major (maybe the biggest) part of phone obsolescence is due to
| software. 2 or 3 years of updates are a joke, Apple does up to 8.
|
| The best hope here is that this phone's repairability will
| attract a software hacking community to provide inofficial
| updates, but what a terrible thing to have to rely on. Besides:
| Phones by other brands like Pocophone are _plenty_ repairable,
| being made for the indian market, and have good community
| software support.
|
| The real next innovation for an Android device maker will be
| providing at least 5 years of updates (I'm well aware of the
| challenges involved, but these are not that hard, make it so).
| IceWreck wrote:
| Its a 150 EUR phone, what more do you expect >
| solarkraft wrote:
| At least 5 years of updates. So much so that I think it
| should probably be legally mandated and clearly marketed as
| the device's life span.
| abliefern wrote:
| I expect manufacturers not to offer bad options like a 150
| EUR phone with 3 years of updates. Give me a 200EUR phone
| with 5 years? Or a 10EUR service fee per year of updates.
| riku_iki wrote:
| > The real next innovation for an Android device maker will be
| providing at least 5 years of updates
|
| pixels starting with pixel 6 have 5 years of updates.
| nevi-me wrote:
| It's unavailable in many markets. Even if one imports it,
| there's a risk that it becomes unrepairable (or costly to
| repair) if it breaks.
| kuschku wrote:
| And require me to throw away headphones that have worked fine
| for decades.
|
| Even this nokia phone has a 3.5mm port, why doesn't Google
| support it anymore?
| riku_iki wrote:
| there are connectors.
|
| > why doesn't Google support it anymore?
|
| maybe preserve space for something else inside.
| topspin wrote:
| > pixels starting with pixel 6 have 5 years of updates.
|
| Nice. Didn't know this. Got a 7 pro shortly after it came
| out; spectrum had a $400 discount on them.
| psydvl wrote:
| Oneplus 11 ships with same support (5 years android updates +
| 4 years security updates)
| xigency wrote:
| > 2 or 3 years of updates are a joke, Apple does up to 8.
|
| Saying an iPhone can handle 8 generations of iOS updates is a
| bigger joke. I'm a cheapskate that somehow uses Apple phones,
| and I'll let you know after 2-3 major OS updates the
| performance is always severely diminished.
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| Are you sure it's not just that the battery has aged after a
| few years? I've of heard many people (myself included)
| getting their battery replaced and saying their phone felt
| like new.
| commandersaki wrote:
| I use an 6S that I bought in 2016. It is on its 4th battery
| replacement. So I've got almost a full 7 years out of it.
| It won't receive any major iOS updates anymore, but will
| still receive security updates. I'd continue down this path
| for another 2 years, but as a non-iCloud user I want iCloud
| Advanced Data Protection to sync Notes and Messages.
| paulmd wrote:
| No. Your phone becomes damaged (DRAM and flash and
| performance problems due to battery) but the phone itself
| usually is fine.
|
| I just got a whole new phone out of a failed battery
| replacement - my guess is the OS installation was just too
| damaged to accept the battery pairing process and it just
| flaked out. I got a refurbished 8+ in consideration, and it's
| actually great despite being a 5.5 year old release at this
| point. It's not the actual performance level of the phone
| itself that's the problem, they just tend to become worn out
| at a hardware level and the phone tends to become unstable.
| It was showing all kinds of weird software quirks (discord
| "send" button would fail to appear when posting a meme and
| you'd have to tab back and forth to a different server, etc)
| and all of that vanished as soon as I got a new phone.
|
| While I can't prove it, my opinion is it would have come back
| over time even if I did a factory reset, perhaps even worse.
| Because I had the same experience with my previous phone, an
| Android Moto G first-gen (Falcon), which I owned for just
| about 5 years exactly (early 2014-early 2019). The phone
| simply got more and more unstable due to bad flash/RAM and
| perhaps some glitching caused by the weak battery... first
| I'd have to factory reset once in a while, then the whole OS
| would need to be reflashed, finally the installs were being
| corrupted less than a day after a clean reflash.
|
| The practical lifespan of the DRAM/flash in a phone seems to
| be about 3-4 years in my experience and by the time things
| hit 5 years they are so damaged they are unusable even after
| fresh OS installs/etc. The timeframe is identical for both my
| Moto G and the 8+, I bet if I'd continued to use the same
| handset for another year it'd have started corrupting itself
| even after a factory reset/etc.
|
| Again, now that I've got a refurbished 8+ in like new
| condition, I can tell you it's still perfectly fine as a
| phone/piece of hardware, it's more than fine enough to run
| discord and apollo and gmail and all the other things.
| natdempk wrote:
| If you make a claim like this can you provide details?
|
| My anecdote: I'm using an iPhone XS that has seen 4+ years of
| use across iOS 12-16 (5 major versions) and I haven't noticed
| any real consistent slowdowns. I've seen the occasional clear
| bug shipped where performance dips from time to time doing
| certain specific things, but these seem to be resolved upon
| the next update or two usually.
| hot_gril wrote:
| I felt this way with the 6 because it got downthrottled into
| the ditch with iOS-whatever, but my 5 (which I actually got
| after the 6 cause it, uh, accidentally broke) was a perfect
| phone its entire support life. I even kept it past Apple
| support limits and only left it when my cell carrier stopped
| working with it entirely.
|
| I think with newer ones, the OS updates are fine.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| This was very much the case a decade ago, when using an
| iPhone 3GS was a real slog by year 3 or 4, but is anyone
| still having those problems today?
|
| My daily driver is a 2018 iPhone XS, and it's about as snappy
| with iOS 16 as I remember it being straight out of the box.
| dmix wrote:
| My dad uses a 5yr old iPhone X and it runs perfectly fine
| with the latest software updates. The baseline CPU (and
| RAM) quality has improved dramatically since around then
| where it's not a big deal to upgrade. Or maybe the software
| has matured enough.
|
| My mom had a 3yr old mid-teir Samsung phone and tablet
| (combo deals they always sell) they both became unusable
| when it upgraded to the latest version of Samsung
| basterdized Android 2 months ago. But I'm sure Pixels are
| more similar to iPhone.
|
| Sadly most Android come with vendor crippled software.
| Maybe the >2yr crippling is the goal for them.
| bombolo wrote:
| Don't worry, pure android versions also made my phone
| slow.
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| Psh 5 years? What kind of standard of quality is that?
|
| We should have several decades of support for all cheap
| electronics at least...
| iamsomeone wrote:
| it's a sad day when repairability is a feature
| BirAdam wrote:
| As other have noted, the lack of updates and locked boot loader
| make this a no go, but the state of fully open-source, non-
| Android phones OSs is likewise abysmal. As such, leaving the
| iPhone isn't going to happen for me. I'm still using my iPhone
| 11, and it's still nice and speedy, the battery is fine, it gets
| updates quickly, and generally doesn't annoy me too much. If the
| PinePhone or PinePhone Pro had a solid, fully functional, open
| source, non-Android operating system that was also good with
| power management... I would switch without hesitation. That's
| just a super high bar, and I don't expect anyone to actually pull
| it off any time soon.
| Moldoteck wrote:
| What do you think about fairphone 4? According to web, it
| supports: Fairphone OS CalyxOS DivestOS /e/OS (Murena) iodeOS
| LeOS LineageOS postmarketOS Ubuntu Touch
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Fairphone isn't and probably won't be available in North
| America, sadly.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| strange comment, comparing apples and oranges, and concluding
| your much more expensive orange is better for you... yeah I am
| not switch my Samsung s22 ultra for this neither, I find it
| very important to state this to the whole world because my own
| currently-utterly-unrealistic-to-beat set of reasons
| hunter2_ wrote:
| Interesting decision about which one is the orange in this
| analogy :)
| aio2 wrote:
| You have high standards for a more simple and cheap product.
| TheSkyHasEyes wrote:
| > the lack of updates
|
| This is not a high standard in the year 2023.
| Entinel wrote:
| Those are high standards? They basically said "I want an
| open-source phone that actually works."
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Is the argument that no open-source phone actually works ?
|
| On parent's point, the Nokia g22 is 180 euros, the iPhone
| 11 at same capacity was 700 euros at launch. You can't
| expect Nokia to contractually promise 8 years of OS updates
| at that price point.
|
| To note, iPhone also don't have 5+years of OS support
| promises, we're just looking at the trend and assume that
| it will continue. I'd also expect this Nokia to have a bit
| more than 3 years of support time, we just don't know how
| much.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| _lack of updates and locked boot loader_
|
| The boot loader will probably be unlocked sooner or later. It
| should be open, but I think it's reasonable to expect either
| update support or unlocked booting, not necessarily both.
|
| In a gook device, that is. You have to remember that most
| consumers _do not want_ to know how their phone works or to
| become expert in its configuration. They just want it to work.
|
| A compromise here would be to have an option to unlock
| everything, but with the understanding that by doing so you opt
| out of warranty service.
|
| Is your iPhone's boot loader unlocked?
| jokoon wrote:
| android is open source, nobody can answer me why the pinephone
| doesn't use android instead
|
| android doesn't require google services to work
| khimaros wrote:
| Glodroid is an AOSP build for PP.
| wolfskaempf wrote:
| In fact there are versions of Android that run on the
| PinePhone like GloDroid, but it's really not the goal.
|
| The goal behind efforts like the Librem 5 or PinePhone is not
| to create yet another Android phone, which Open Source or not
| will strengthen the Duopoly of Google and Apple in the Mobile
| Phone Operating System market. The goal is to create hardware
| that can jump-start the development of a true GNU/Linux
| Mobile Operating System.
|
| With its real world use case, it has brought great advances
| to Mobile "Desktop" Environments like Plasma Mobile or Phosh
| by motivating developers who could finally use their
| creations and improvements on a real phone.
| charcircuit wrote:
| >of a true GNU/Linux Mobile Operating System.
|
| Why is GNU important? toybox's coreutils is a good enough
| replacement. If you really wanted you could install GNU's
| core utils. 99% of users don't want to be messing with
| command line tools anyways.
|
| Android already brought Linux as a mobile operating system
| to the mainstream.
| jokoon wrote:
| why is not the goal?
| fsflover wrote:
| Having the same OS on my laptop and phone is amazing.
| Android turns a general-purpose device into a restricted
| one, without a possibility to run desktop apps.
|
| Desktop OS allows to use desktop apps on the phone and
| enjoy convergence:
| https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-
| wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
| Nextgrid wrote:
| > Android turns a general-purpose device into a
| restricted one
|
| Android still runs the Linux kernel and the only reason
| you can't have shell access on it is user-hostile
| restrictions, which an open-source build wouldn't have.
|
| I think it would be a lot easier to add desktop apps
| capability to Android for the minority that actually
| wants to run Linux apps on their _phone_ than building a
| touch-optimized userspace from scratch.
|
| If your desire is to run Linux desktop apps on Android I
| bet you can already do it if you find an X Server APK and
| got your Linux app to use it as your X display - that
| would've been a quick, pragmatic solution to satisfy the
| "Linux desktop" requirement while taking advantage of
| Android's mature & battle-tested touch-optimised
| userspace.
| fsflover wrote:
| It's the minority, because people didn't realize yet how
| convenient and logical it is. There should be no
| difference between a phone and a desktop, except for the
| screen size. You don't need to develop independent apps.
| You don't need to learn independent tools.
|
| I can connect a screen and keyboard to my phone and use
| it as desktop: https://puri.sm/posts/converging-on-
| convergence-pureos-is-co....
| [deleted]
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| [dead]
| bitL wrote:
| Ugly notch and no Linux... Not sure what the appeal is? I believe
| HMD sales tanked right after they introduced the notch (they
| aren't Apple to get away with it) and this phone seems like a way
| to clear out unwanted displays via "repairability fans".
| mrtksn wrote:
| What I wonder is, is it open enough to do software defined radio
| and fiddle with the GSM infrastructure?
|
| Probably not, for that you need Nokia 1100 made in Bochum.
| rc_mob wrote:
| i never planned to ever leave apple but this here puts a "maybe"
| into me
| neverrroot wrote:
| Nokia, what it once was, and where it's playing at now. They
| weren't very friendly nor open back in the days, but time has its
| ways. Happy to see them do this now.
| openplatypus wrote:
| > Security updates: 3 years of monthly security updates
|
| That is such a let-down! If Nokia is serious about
| sustainability, it needs to make it 5y+.
|
| I get it, it is not easy. But with the proliferation of malware
| and exploits, after 3y (since release, not purchase) this phone
| is nothing but a liability.
| tomComb wrote:
| That just refers to the security updates that require a full
| firmware update. I think people get focussed on that because
| they're used to the iPhone where that's only way to fix
| security issues. On android, the majority of security issues
| are patched immediately and silently through the play store, so
| that continues pretty much for the life of the phone.
|
| In other words, updates are much less important on android than
| they are on the iPhone.
| uallo wrote:
| > so that continues pretty much for the life of the phone.
|
| I'm on a Pixel 1 with Android 10. Last security update it got
| was from October 2019 which is about three years after the
| phone was introduced.
|
| Is this supposed to be different on newer Android versions?
| tomComb wrote:
| That refers to the formal (full firmware) updates, I'm
| talking about security updates that get pushed to the phone
| without you having to do anything.
|
| It started with the browser component many years ago, and
| has grown its coverage with each version. The limitations
| are mainly in the kernel, but they now even do graphics
| drivers this way (though that requires vendor cooperation,
| unlike everything else), but you wouldn't have that with
| Android 10.
|
| This capability has steadily grown to cover more of the OS
| over time, particularly recently, so unfortunately, Yes,
| Android 10 does have much less of this ability then later
| versions.
| uallo wrote:
| > That refers to the formal (full firmware) updates, I'm
| talking about security updates that get pushed to the
| phone without you having to do anything.
|
| It is called "Android security patch level", that is not
| a full firmware update. It may still be something else
| than you have in mind, though. (How) can I check the
| patch level of the security updates you are relating to?
| tomComb wrote:
| My understanding of this capability is that it started
| with the browser component and grew from there,
| suggesting that it happens automatically and there is
| nothing you need to check. But someone has pointed out
| that all the Framework vulnerabilities are still listed
| as being addressed by full, old-fashioned security
| updates, so I must admit that there is something I'm
| missing here.
| Gigachad wrote:
| It isn't. The situation is so dire on Android right now
| morsch wrote:
| Here's the security bulletin for January:
| https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/2023-01-01
|
| How do I determine which, if any, of these is fixed via the
| Play store update mechanism?
| nevi-me wrote:
| The bulletin specifies only CVE-2023-20912 as being fixed
| by Play Store. https://source.android.com/docs/security/bul
| letin/2023-01-01...
| abliefern wrote:
| Wow. So "the majority of security issues are patched
| immediately and silently through the play store" seems
| catastrophically incorrect.
| tomComb wrote:
| Well, yes, I have to agree. See the other comment I just
| posted. My understanding is that they are at the point
| (at least now with Android 13, which is what the Nokia
| will presumably ship with) that they can update most of
| userland (and even graphics drivers though that requires
| vendor participation), so they should be able to address
| Framework vulnerabilities, which is the critical
| discrepancy here.
| tomComb wrote:
| I'm puzzled ... I can understand why the BLE drivers
| would still require a firmware update (and that is fine
| since drivers for older hardware shouldn't be much of a
| problem), but why wouldn't all of the Framework
| vulnerabilities be handled via Play Store updates. I
| believe that all of the Framework is updatable in this
| way. Perhaps it's because that is not true of Android 10
| so they need to address it in a firmware update anyway?
| openplatypus wrote:
| Never had an iPhone.
|
| I don't know what comes through Play Store, only thing it
| tells me is that specific app was updated.
|
| All I know is that my cell phone vendors tells I am not
| getting more security updates.
|
| Consumers should not understand CVEs to feel safe.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Cheap phones are becoming an interesting decent proposition.
|
| I could get one of these, add that to my laptop and a full frame
| mirrorless camera I bought recently. I could buy all of them for
| less than my daughters new iPhone. A proper computer, a proper
| camera and a smartphone!
| squarefoot wrote:
| Close, but no cigar. After 3 years or 2 major Android versions it
| still becomes an unsupported doorstop doomed to rot in a drawer
| until the owner throws it into a landfill. I totally understand
| not wanting to put resources into supporting old products, so the
| punchline should have been "...and after support is ceased, we
| unlock the bootloader". Now that would have made it interesting.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| Bootloader should be unlockable, via a process that prevents
| accidentally doing it, from release.
|
| Custom ROM from day 1 may delay the need to replace the
| battery.
| haunter wrote:
| https://browser.geekbench.com/search?q=nokia+g22
|
| It's on the level of a 2017 Google Pixel 2. I mean not bad but
| it' also PS150/200EUR. For that much I'd rather get a used iPhone
| 11.
| Illotus wrote:
| Largely depends on the market, where I am used iPhone 11
| without major flaws costs little over 300 euros.
| mikejarema wrote:
| Why doesn't Nokia allow me to preorder or sign up to be notified
| when the device is released/available in my market?
|
| A search for g22 on nokia.com yields zero (!!) results.
| https://www.nokia.com/search/global/en/G22
|
| I'll be shopping for a new phone soon and am interested in this
| model. But wow, they've missed a huge opportunity to capture that
| interest and let me know when I can buy!
| luckyshot wrote:
| I can get notified with this link (in spanish, though):
| https://www.nokia.com/phones/es_es/nokia-g-22/buy?sku=101S06...
| louison11 wrote:
| People, don't fight. There is a different consumer persona for
| each of the brands you're comparing. People who like to be geeky
| and fix their own phones and install custom ROMs etc will keep on
| loving Android and phones like this one. People who have other
| priorities, just want the best phone on the market, just want it
| to work, and don't mind paying more to fix it if it breaks, will
| go Apple. I don't think anyone here will question that Apple
| always is 2 years ahead of Android phone makers. Don't compare
| what's not comparable.
| mclightning wrote:
| Nokia, brand, has been milked to the brim at this point...
| a1371 wrote:
| This seems like a Savvy move from Nokia. At least in my country,
| Nokia phones are remembered for the following:
|
| - nearly indestructible
|
| - well priced
|
| - back pops out
|
| Nokia is doing the most sensible thing to reuse these as its
| differentiator.
|
| I understand people taking about the OS. But Nokia has little
| control over the software and it has also never been its selling
| point for me with Symbian, and later Windows Phone.
|
| I sure miss their wonky phones with weirdly arranged buttons and
| their random quirks.
| aspyct wrote:
| I applaud this initiative by Nokia, and can't wait to lay my
| hands on one of those phones when mine dies, but let's be real:
| it won't be as tough as the 3310.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| Did Nokia used to manufacture there own phones?
|
| Or have they always just done design - like Apple - and someone
| else manufactured them?
| cromulent wrote:
| They used to make them. A manufacturing company from way
| back, they were the biggest manufacturer of phones from about
| 1998 to 2011.
|
| Now HMD make them, I think.
| Yujf wrote:
| HMD designs and sells them, Foxconn makes them
| shp0ngle wrote:
| Nokia nowadays has nothing to do with the original company. The
| name was moved around, first to Microsoft, now it's some
| Chinese company I think?
| calacatta wrote:
| Apple seen backing up an all-new Brinks truck to Stephen Elop's
| WindowsCE-themed garage...
| poisonborz wrote:
| Why is it so hard to add a removeable back cover to have
| swappable battery?
|
| Seemingly battery replacement can still be done "in 5 minutes"
| but this still makes pop-out/on the road battery swapping
| unpractical. https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/nokia-g22
| crazygringo wrote:
| Waterproofing is the main reason.
|
| But then thickness and aesthetic "cheapness" is a secondary
| one.
|
| A removeable cover and battery is always going to introduce a
| _little_ bit of thickness, which on a thin phone _is_
| noticeable even if not major.
|
| And then whether you have screws or the ridges for removing the
| cover, it just always feels a little "cheap". You can't get the
| same kind of rounded smooth glass or aluminum backing that
| wraps seamlessly around the edges.
|
| And when people are comparing two phones in their hands, the
| one that feels more "premium" is often the one they'll go with
| if they feel they're already paying a premium price. This is an
| object they hold in their hand _all day long_. And if you live
| in a major city, it 's really not a big deal to get your
| battery replaced after 2 years at an Apple Store.
| dsego wrote:
| > Waterproofing is the main reason.
|
| Samsung Galaxy S5
| rg111 wrote:
| Only forced obsoleting by the company. No other reasons exist.
|
| I and tens of millions other people used removable back cover
| phones for years before the sealed phone became the norm.
|
| Edit: Can anyone explain why they think that this is wrong? I
| am genuinely interested.
|
| I really used user-removable battery phones for close to a
| decade. I found no issues.
| michaelteter wrote:
| > Can anyone explain why they think that this is wrong?
|
| I suspect it is this: > Only forced obsoleting by the
| company. No other reasons exist.
|
| While companies do want you to buy the newest version every
| year or two, it is more likely that cost-benefit analysis
| tells them to build the way they build; they know they must
| release newer better phones periodically because the
| competition will do this also. But to support older phones
| has a cost, and at some point those old phones don't generate
| enough revenue to justify the cost of supporting them.
| KarlKemp wrote:
| You can't think of another reason? Not maybe any of those
| mentioned in the thread?
|
| And then you can't think of reasons for the downvotes?
|
| I see a pattern, maybe?
| petee wrote:
| Could be wrong (please correct me) but i recall hearing that
| allowing a customer to change a battery (e.g, 3rd party) on a
| chargable device can change the safety of the product/UL rating
| or whatever, so it could simply be a certification thing.
|
| Not exactly the same thing, but I have a Garmin heartrate chest
| strap with a replaceable battery (no charging) -- in the US the
| cover swivels open to change, but in Australia it requries a
| screw, for child safety rules. I Thought that was interesting
| Zak wrote:
| There's a specific issue with young children eating button-
| cell lithium batteries, which I'm guessing is what your
| Garmin device uses. Australia appears to have a law requiring
| the battery compartments of such devices to be child-
| resistant.
|
| I'm not sure if any countries have similar regulations
| related to larger Li-ion rechargeable batteries.
|
| https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2022C00445
| throwanem wrote:
| The tradeoff is "back cover that comes off in an instant,
| whenever you want it to" versus "back cover that comes off in
| an instant, even when you don't want it to."
| atchoo wrote:
| I never had a problem with a Note 4.
|
| The way you could buy cases that replaced the back cover
| meant for a much thinner profile phone than the typical metal
| case wrapped in silicone.
|
| Replaceable batteries are glorious. I never plugged-in my
| phone, just flipped the battery with one from the charger
| when I left the house. Instant 100% battery. Travelling? Just
| take a few charged batteries at a fraction of the weight of a
| power-bank and much more convenient.
| dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
| Somehow this very important use case is lost on modern
| phone makers.
| cptaj wrote:
| My decades of experience with easily removable back covers
| tells me this is a complete non-issue.
|
| The back cover coming off accidentally has never happened to
| me.
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| For me, it's more of a fidget-spinner. I keep popping it
| off and on when bored.
| dsr_ wrote:
| It happened to me repeatedly with two different phones, but
| never when I had a protective case on the phone -- and I
| always buy one.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| Why can't the back cover just screw on and off?
|
| How often do you need to replace your battery? Maybe twice in
| 4 years? What percentage of people keep a phone for more than
| 4 years? 5%?
| billfor wrote:
| Not so much replacing as swapping for a spare to double
| life without recharging.
| 6510 wrote:
| I had a dumb phone back in the days that ran on 4
| conventional AA batteries. Opening the lid and swapping 4
| batteries is less convenient than swapping a single flat
| cell but its so much better than being wired to the wall or
| using a clumsy power bank with a cable that is always to
| short and to long at the same time. The whole charging
| ritual is far more absurd than it seems. The screen needs
| to power down, there has to be a power savings mode. With
| intense use (normal?) and erratic charging patterns
| batteries degrade much faster than advertised. I mean, I
| read _" lifespan is 2 - 3 years, which is about 300 - 500
| charge cycles"_ when actually used you get about 5 hours
| out of a charge. real use say 3 months, running from socket
| to socket. LOL
|
| Cant stop laughing thinking about it, luxurious homes with
| all the trimmings then have the whole family gather around
| the extension cord. Like on a construction site. Imagine
| guns worked like this. We can glue in the cartridge and
| you'd be able to shoot people for many years? 6 shots
| should be enough for 3 years when the software expires.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| With the Samsung S5, I'd take a couple extra batteries with me
| when traveling. Never had to worry about a dead battery or
| bother with a power bank.
|
| That phone was waterproof but had a special ridge around the
| back panel.
| aspyct wrote:
| I actually prefer power bank to spare batteries.
|
| Spare batteries can only be used with the phone, whereas
| power banks are standard and usable with many other devices
| if needed.
|
| Also, small phone batteries usually don't come with a
| carrying case. They're fragile and you could accidentally
| short them.
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| Check out the Samsung XCover phones if you want that kind of
| battery swap.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| I suspect waterproof-ness is one issue.
| sasas wrote:
| With this handset, does repairable == right to repair the
| operating system == supported jailbreaking?
|
| I recently went though some frustration to root a Samsung handset
| - it required sorting through endless blog posts linking random
| executables from megaupload or google drive. Fragmented
| instructions on various forums; many incomplete or incorrect.
|
| Which Android handsets best support rooting/jailbreaking by the
| vendor which provides a supported way to both unlock the
| bootloader and provide root access?
| fancyfredbot wrote:
| I have owned a fairphone 3, and honestly it was a let down - very
| expensive to buy and also expensive to repair (the replacement
| mainboard cost more than a newer better phone). Perhaps this was
| because of the sustainable sourcing they used but the upshot was
| that it became ewaste just as quickly as any other phone. This
| one should at least be cheap to repair!
| ta8903 wrote:
| It's nice that this phone is "officially" repairable which means
| you can buy the parts straight from Nokia and do the repairs
| yourself but keep in mind that most popular Android phones (even
| the cheap Chinese ones) are already repairable, you can look up
| instructions on how to open the back panel on youtube and buy the
| parts off aliexpress and do the repair yourself, or with brands
| like Xiaomi which have large presences in some countries you can
| have them do it, for much cheaper than it would cost for this
| phone.
| davesque wrote:
| ... _and_ it comes with two guitar picks!
| octacat wrote:
| Just unglued my samsung to replace battery/usb c. The mobile
| network does not work now. I guess getting something repairable
| is not a bad idea. Probably shorted, because you cannot
| disconnect battery without removing mid frame (and oh god that's
| hard).
| circuit10 wrote:
| Why does it have a notch but a thick bottom bezel? I thought the
| point of the notch was so that you could make the screen cover
| the whole display? Why can they not just move the screen down a
| bit to get the bezel to the top, remove the notch and put the
| camera at the top?
| indymike wrote:
| This is pretty common on lower-end devices and I think the
| answer is it looks more "high end" to they buyer.
| bitL wrote:
| Ask HMD, they made some boneheaded design decisions in the last
| gen, thinking they are Apple to get away with it. Their sales
| showed otherwise and now they probably need to get rid of
| components they bough in advance, so here comes a repairable
| phone.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| It would be nice if some company went against this obsession with
| ultra thin phones. Then we could go back to ACTUAL replaceable
| batteries, maybe durability too, something Nokia used to take
| pride in.
|
| Yes I'd like a 2mm thick phone with 6 cameras I can replace every
| year. I'd like my phone to get closer and closer to toilet paper
| clogging the pipes of this planet.
| system2 wrote:
| Time flies and 3 years update is nothing. Remember the beginning
| of covid days? More than 3 years ago. So if you bought this phone
| those days now it was in the garbage bin. I don't want to spend
| time and effort to buy a phone every 2-3 years. Buy an iPhone,
| they replace the battery for you for $69 even after 3 years.
| iPhones are rock-solid and get 6-7 years of updates.
| cromulent wrote:
| Totally agree. But I would love a competitor. This smells like
| the start of one, if compromised by committee.
| aeyes wrote:
| But your device is still perfectly usable after the last
| update. It will probably take at least 2 years before apps
| refuse to work on that version.
|
| By the way: In 3 days iPhone battery replacement price will go
| up by $20, not such a good deal anymore. I can buy a budget
| phone at this price point.
| jasoneckert wrote:
| This is excellent. However, I wish they released a more powerful
| version with the same repairability. I believe this would better
| appeal to the audience that values the repairability, as well as
| put pressure on other vendors to do the same.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| That seems like the natural progression, if this model has any
| success.
| jw14 wrote:
| Supported with updates for 3 years? So you'll change the battery
| once, I guess.
| whatsthatabout wrote:
| The Nokia website only states 2 years of OS updates - so its
| e-waste from the beginning. What a joke *EDIT: And 3 years of
| security updates
| PufPufPuf wrote:
| If it gets popular enough on XDA, you can bet on another few
| years of updates from the community.
|
| - Sent from my Xiaomi A2 Lite (released 2018), currently
| running Android 13
| throwaway4good wrote:
| Can you install your own OS on this device?
| Ninjinka wrote:
| > "allowing users to swap out the battery in under five minutes"
|
| Wow, I remember when that was 5 seconds, and came standard on
| Android.
| LegitShady wrote:
| they should raise the price $20 and give 5 years of updates.
|
| gsmarena says this g22 will have a 3.5mm headphone jack too.
| [deleted]
| shp0ngle wrote:
| I never ordered Fairphone because honestly the camera is absolute
| crap and making pictures of my kids is maybe #1 thing I do with
| my phone.
|
| If the camera on these is less crap... I probably still won't buy
| it, because it has the same 3 years update policy as most
| Androids do.
|
| But hey I might think about it harder.
|
| edit: conversely, if fairphone ever ships with camera that's
| better than 7 year old iPhone, then I'm game.
| mvkel wrote:
| Fine as long as the software will continue to support it, which
| will last about two years
| everdrive wrote:
| This looks like a step in the right direction. If someone could
| make it easy to get another OS on here, we'd really be in good
| shape.
| pxc wrote:
| If you can't update it to fix security flaws, it's not
| repairable. Software and firmware updates is 100% a repairability
| issue, as is the ability to customize those things with your own
| patches.
| bboygravity wrote:
| Uniherz Titan is also a fully repairable phone (came out years
| ago).
|
| Also it's better because it has a physical keyboard :) Just IMO
| obviously :)
|
| Recently got spare parts for mine such as battery and new charger
| port circuit. The manufacturer posts Youtube videos online on how
| to DIY it. Totally amazing IMO.
| Groxx wrote:
| Interesting brand - how's the OS customizations and security
| update velocity? Those small phones are awfully tempting...
| askvictor wrote:
| I have a Jelly 2; the OS is mostly stock Android - a couple
| of minor tweaks to support particular hardware (e.g. the
| customisable button).
| forinti wrote:
| The thing I really cared about was being able to swap the
| battery. So I got a Neffos C5 many years ago. When time came to
| swap the battery, I could only find crappy ones (probably used)
| from China.
|
| So, while I see this as positive, I'll just wait a few years
| before I praise anybody.
| tuetuopay wrote:
| > It runs Android 12 and will be supported for three years of
| monthly security updates and two major Android version upgrades.
|
| And that's why I stick to iPhones for long-lasting devices, those
| two major versions are a joke. Apple has the crown with _seven_
| on the iPhone 6S. When will someone make Android phones other
| than Pixels with non-abysmal software support? Yes, I know you
| can install alternate ROMs on your phone, but this is not what
| the general public does, especially with a phone at this price
| point. The average joe will definitely change his phone after
| three years when they cannot install whatsapp or messenger or
| their banking app anymore.
|
| That said, kudos to Nokia for entering this market, I genuinely
| hope it will be profitable enough for them to keep it up!
| amelius wrote:
| Yes, I had to throw away my perfectly capable phone because my
| banking app refused to work at some point because the version
| of Android was too old and the phone stopped supporting newer
| versions of Android.
|
| Edit: not sarcastic, 100% serious.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| Can't you use web app tho? I only seen one bank that would
| limit features on a web app (I don't understand why), but
| there are tons of banks out there nowadays, many digital ones
| with features where no traditional bank will ever even dream
| to implement.
| cvalka wrote:
| Security updates are a must. Without them it's not a usable
| device
| amelius wrote:
| The fault is not with the bank, but with the vendor of the
| phone. The hardware is perfectly capable of running newer
| Android versions, but the phone simply doesn't support
| them.
| Descensus wrote:
| This is especially the case with lower end phones. My
| mother (an immigrant whose family communicates via
| WhatsApp, and other free services) buys a new phone every
| year or so because her BoA, or transit app can't be used
| without the version of Android that was never released
| for her phone.
|
| It's some real "serpent eating its own tail" sh*t if I
| ever saw it.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| Not everyone cares about security updates.
| cvalka wrote:
| Not everyone cares about using condoms for one night
| stands. Would you apply the same approach to Windows
| workstations?
| vbezhenar wrote:
| I, personally, do care. But I saw lots of computers with
| old Windows, like XP, 2003 and so on. On my current work
| we have dozens of customers with Windows Vista which
| causes lots of headache and significantly limiting us
| with development tools. Well, it works for them, so who
| am I to judge. All I can see is that not everyone cares
| about security updates, including Windows workstations
| which handle quite important data.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > Not everyone cares about security updates.
|
| OK.
|
| But surely banks ought to. If you care about having a
| banking app, then you ought to care transitively.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| Do they really? All they care is about some particular
| version of Android (like any other app). I don't think I
| ever saw any banking app which would check for presence
| of some particular security updates (not even sure if
| it's possible).
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Right, like the good old "we care so much about security
| that we blocked rooted devices, but we make no effort
| whatsoever to check the security patch date":)
| serf wrote:
| None of my banking apps will work on a rooted phone, so I
| need to keep a 'clean' android phone around if I care to
| use their app. (I don't.)
| [deleted]
| bmacho wrote:
| AFAIK if I use a bank app on an insecure phone, and they
| stole my money, the bank should give it back to me.
| Authentication is their job after all.
|
| But it is not much of as a problem right now. They
| definitely try to push people towards more secure and up-
| to-date systems, but as now, you still can bank from
| insecure systems as well, and allow your account to be
| stolen.
| aceazzameen wrote:
| Banks don't even do 2FA properly. They don't care.
| amelius wrote:
| Banks don't care about security. See e.g. credit cards
| where the numbers are just printed in plain sight for
| everyone to copy them.
| throwaway744678 wrote:
| It's supposed to never leave your pocket or your hand.
| Besides, if someone gets your credit card number and
| purchases something, you can charge it back. The vendor
| is supporting the risk, not you.
| pxmpxm wrote:
| > Security updates are a must. Without them it's not a
| usable device
|
| That belongs on https://twitter.com/shituserstory
| cvalka wrote:
| Don't be arrogant and wrong at the same time. Not a very
| good combination.
| pxmpxm wrote:
| As a _bank customer_
|
| I want to _buy a new phone when trying to access to my
| money_
|
| So that _an IT manager at the bank can put a check mark
| next to a policy OKR_
| aspyct wrote:
| I suggest you complain to your bank about it. If you can,
| maybe switch to another one if they don't fix the issue.
|
| I know it sounds extreme, but it's time to send the signal
| that it's not ok to force people to throw electronics to
| landfill because of shiny new APIs.
| camhart wrote:
| I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
|
| I have 5+ year old Android phones that have no issue with
| banking apps. I'm not sure where this rhetoric is coming
| from, but it doesn't align with my experience on Android.
|
| Capital one/wells fargo requires android 8+. Citi bank 7.1+.
| (I stopped looking it up at this point). 8 was released in
| 2017. So assuming 2 years of major OS updates, that means
| roughly phones from 2015 can still work with it.
|
| Also... even if the app stops working, you can use a web
| browser still.
|
| Phone batteries die off long before this becomes a reality.
| 8K832d7tNmiQ wrote:
| 2017 and above android phones are generally considered to
| be mature enough on both hardware and OS version side
| compared to a decade-old phones released on 2015 and below.
|
| I would not surprise if we'd gradually get longer software
| support on future phones as time goes on.
| xnyan wrote:
| >I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
|
| My local bank requires 9 or above
|
| >Also... even if the app stops working, you can use a web
| browser still.
|
| It's not uncommon at all for banks to have a website that's
| virtually impossible to use on mobile browsers.
| camhart wrote:
| Even at 9, thats supported from devices bought in 2016 or
| later. Who's battery lasts > 6-7 years?
| benj111 wrote:
| But why should the device life be limited by the battery?
|
| This thread is discussing a phone with replaceable
| battery. For at least 5 years.
| amelius wrote:
| Yeah, using the website is cumbersome compared to using
| the banking app, in my bank's case, especially on mobile.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Can't carriers lock OS versions? I remember a long time ago
| circa Android 4 I had to replace a bunch of deployed
| devices because Verizon wouldn't allow upgrades.
| bitbang wrote:
| Chase now requires 9+
| AnonymousPlanet wrote:
| If you're using a banking app to do online banking, security
| doesn't seem to be a priority in the first place. Or what is
| your banking app's second factor for authentication?
| Fingerprint? On Android? On the same device you bring with
| you everywhere and use for surfing all sorts of websites?
| Zigurd wrote:
| It's the oems fault in this case. And they have no excuse.
| Google has modified the architecture of Android to make it
| possible for oems to update as quickly as possible, as well as
| all of the previous efforts to enable updating user-facing
| features without updating the OS. But it's all still a kludge
| compared to iOS.
|
| The bottom line is I don't think this is solvable with
| technology. Google should have gotten much tougher with OEMs
| once Android got widely accepted.
| pjmlp wrote:
| They had their chance with Project Treble, and took the
| decision to make updates optional and not a requirement for
| Play Store contracts, so naturally nothing changed.
|
| The Android team is the one to blame, several times on
| Android Fireside sessions they have answered that they rather
| have the fragementation of the ecosystem where partners are
| allowed to experiment and come up with new ideas.
|
| Well one of the ideas is to sell newer devices instead of
| free beer upgrades, with Google's complacency.
|
| I still rather be on Android, because even with them screwing
| up Sun and leaving it to implode, I like that they push a
| managed OS no matter what.
|
| Those that unaccept it and keep diving into the NDK with GL
| based UIs, always get a few scars in the process.
| duxup wrote:
| I agree about it being impossible to solve the update issues
| with tech.
|
| There are too many benefits for the OEMs to dump phones on
| the market and not update. No reason to care otherwise so
| far, sadly.
| rock_artist wrote:
| Also Pixels usually gets less official OS iterations than
| iPhones.
|
| Only nice thing on Android is the aftermarket ROMs since it's
| AOSP. Sadly from my experience the aftermarket ROMs for newer
| OS iterations arent polished or miss features that the OEM roms
| had.
| camhart wrote:
| Less official?
| xnyan wrote:
| They meant fewer, as in "Android gets fewer official OS
| iterations than iPhone."
| nortonham wrote:
| what they mean is iPhones receive updates (OS upgrades and
| security updates) and are officially supported by Apple for
| a longer period of time than any Android phone.
|
| The Google Pixel receives new android versions and security
| updates for a longer period of time than any other android
| phone, but that's fewer than the equivalent iPhone
| duxup wrote:
| Yeah my wife's old iPhone 8 Plus still gets updates, still
| runs. Many of my android devices from that time are dead, no
| more updates, and/or borderline unusable due to random android
| slowdown performance issues.
|
| In fact running across that old phone is what convinced me to
| switch.
| Moldoteck wrote:
| Not to dismiss, but I have a pixel 3, still snappy, android
| 12. It was released 1 year after iphone 8 if I'm not
| mistaken, but still, it's about ~5 years from today
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Yep, that's the lifecycle of iPhones.
|
| I usually get the latest and greatest from work every 2
| years. Then I pay a nominal fee to get it for myself (because
| of taxes or accounting or something).
|
| I get a new phone from the company, my old one goes to my SO.
| Their old one goes either to my kid or to mine or my SO's
| parents, depending on which part of the lifecycle they are
| at.
|
| Can't do that with Android, the 5-6 year old ones would be so
| bad and out of date that I wouldn't want to be the one doing
| tech support for them.
| y-c-o-m-b wrote:
| > when they cannot install whatsapp or messenger or their
| banking app anymore.
|
| Hyperbole much? That's a ridiculous claim. I've been sporting a
| _" renewed"_ Samsung S10E since early 2021. There's still
| nothing it can't do. Prior to that I owned a Galaxy S7 since
| 2016! That's a 5 whole years without any phone issues on an
| Android phone. I turned on the S7 a few months back and after
| an update, all the apps still work.
| fdaryfdyfgd wrote:
| that's at least 3 years each using a phone with absolutely no
| security updates to network, wifi, cryptolibs, html/js engine
| etc.
|
| not that iphone are any better. you have zero idea what you
| get on a new ios for old devices since the binaries are not
| the same. only thing you can be certain is the extra slow
| down loop
| y-c-o-m-b wrote:
| On the S7 I got security updates up until September 2020
| IIRC. I anticipate the S10E will continue to receive
| security updates for just a little while longer and it's
| currently on Android 12.
|
| My point was that old Android phones "not working" after a
| few years is complete bs. The S10E was launched in March
| 2019 and still going strong.
|
| EDIT: Looks like the S10E is still getting monthly security
| updates too:
| https://doc.samsungmobile.com/sm-g970f/xeo/doc.html
| piperswe wrote:
| The HTML/JS engine does get updated, it's contained in a
| component called "Android System WebView" on the Play
| Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.go
| ogle.and...
| kyriakos wrote:
| A big benefit of Android, its modular and bits and pieces
| can be updated independently. Part of the reason iPhones
| require to have long term OS support is the fact that
| their browser would otherwise be stuck at an old version.
| IshKebab wrote:
| You have it backwards. In the early days Android didn't
| have any components in the Play Store and Apple still
| provided updates for much much longer than Android
| manufacturers.
|
| Google moved the web browser component to the Play Store
| _because_ Android 's OS updates are so bad. They had no
| choice but to do it.
|
| Apple could do it too if they wanted to but they don't
| need to because they actually provide OS updates for a
| decent period.
| kyriakos wrote:
| Regardless of the history though, now, Chrome (+ webview)
| and Firefox on Android receive at least one update per
| month (sometimes more frequently). Thats a plus.
| eganist wrote:
| Samsung supports 4 years of updates as of last February.
| The S10E is in that window, too.
|
| https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-android-
| updates-114...
| gandalfian wrote:
| Though I'm on android 9? Five year old phone and while I'm not
| a power user nothing seems to care? Apple apps are much more
| picky of versions.
| rhn_mk1 wrote:
| Security is a complicated matter; you only realize you should
| have cared when it's too late.
| thrashh wrote:
| What Apple apps? I just went from an iPhone 10 (6 years old)
| to 14 last week and I didn't have any change in my apps.
| b1ue64 wrote:
| The difference here is that an iPhone X (damn, that came
| out 6 years ago?) is still supported
| throwaway472919 wrote:
| I guess what they meant is that third-party apps are much
| stricter on iOS (at least partly because Apple updates
| faster and for longer, probably). I was on Android 8 (2017)
| until recently without any issues, whereas iOS apps only
| seem to support 1-2 versions back generally. Plus the
| Safari rendering engine doesn't update independently so you
| can't fall back to the web.
| circuit10 wrote:
| That's because the iPhone 10 is still being supported so
| you likely have the latest iOS version
| kyriakos wrote:
| PS149.99 with 3 years of software updates + repairable sounds
| good enough to me.
| bg24 wrote:
| I am an iPhone user. Irrespective of software update, the
| device gets really slow at 3yrs mark, forcing me to change. So
| I do not know if supporting a phone software for >3yrs is a
| good idea or just marketing.
| nabakin wrote:
| Small to medium Android phone manufacturers need to team up and
| support a single ROM instead of maintaining individual flavors
| like this which only last for a few years.
| therealasdf wrote:
| Samsung offers 5 years of support.
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| Certain models and only starting last year. So an
| improvement, yet still requires one do research.
| pjmlp wrote:
| iPhones drag to a crawl after a couple of OS updates when the
| hardware is no longer up to the stuff of the latest iOS
| versions.
|
| I only change phones when they die in some form, so 300 euros
| every 5 years on average is more than enough, I am not buying
| phones with laptop prices.
|
| I have anyway access to Apple devices via project assignments
| in consulting projects.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| So you'd prefer a phone that has no updates, functional or
| security, to one that is _slower_? Because that's the reality
| for functional updates after less than two years, and
| security after 3 for this phone. 7 major OS updates is over
| twice as long.
|
| Ok. Sure Jan. I think the majority will take that slow phone
| in a heartbeat.
| bmacho wrote:
| Why not? A phone that has no updates, functional or
| security still can do a lot of things very well.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| It's also a _massive_ security risk.
| flykespice wrote:
| How often do you run into security riskd when using your
| phone everyday?
| serf wrote:
| Would you know what to count? Most wouldn't.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Considering the increase of putting your entire life into
| your phone, your phone's security should honestly be
| among those you care about the most.
|
| Most people will access all facets of their life on their
| phone, from social, to financial, to work. If anything,
| the risk is only going to increase as time goes on.
| dageshi wrote:
| Given androids market share vs iphone... the majority are
| indeed taking a phone with no updates over a slower phone.
|
| As long as the apps they use work ok I'm not sure the
| majority cares about updates security or otherwise.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| I mean, no. Their market share says nothing about
| people's wants and needs on this topic, it just means
| that on the whole the Android package is more appealing.
| Which could be for _many_ reasons, of which price is
| going to be the biggest.
|
| If people could choose a longer period of updates, I
| don't really expect any to refuse.
| dageshi wrote:
| You don't get longer updates without increasing the
| price. If people did really care about updates outside of
| HN it would be a marketing feature.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| The fact that Android phone releases (like the one we're
| commenting on right now) generally announce the supported
| feature and security updates indicates that it very much
| is one already, at least on the Android side.
| pjmlp wrote:
| It is no different from how feature phones and smartphones
| used to be.
|
| Only rich people care about iPhones, or those that buy
| everything on credit.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Or, you know, those that want their phones supported for
| longer than two years.
|
| Minimizing a group of people does nothing but stroke your
| own ego. There are many reasons to buy an iPhone. There
| are many reasons to buy an Android. Buying one or the
| other says nothing about you as a person and implying
| otherwise is absurd and childish.
|
| We're not on Reddit; this is supposed to be adults having
| conversations not preteen fanboys blindly worshipping a
| mobile OS.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Who is worshipping iOS here then?
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Nobody. Did you even read the comment you replied to? The
| one that says there are reasons to buy each OS? Pointing
| out a clear advantage is not worshipping, it's just
| _pointing out a clear advantage_.
|
| Price is a clear advantage for Android phones. Does that
| make me an Android worshipper now?
| system16 wrote:
| My experience does not align with this at all. I've been
| using an iPhone XS for nearly 5 years. Other than wishing it
| had a more powerful camera, I haven't felt the need to get a
| new phone at all. Sure, it's not as snappy as my wife's brand
| new iPhone 14 Pro, but I can easily live with it for another
| year or two.
| qwytw wrote:
| After a couple of OS updates any iPhone is still faster than
| an average Android phone sold at the time.
| eropple wrote:
| _> iPhones drag to a crawl after a couple of OS updates when
| the hardware is no longer up to the stuff of the latest iOS
| versions._
|
| Not really, and definitely not with more modern ones. I have
| an iPhone 11 from 2019. It was released with iOS 13. It is
| now running iOS 16.1.1. It is as snappy as the day I bought
| it. I'm considering a phone upgrade, but that's because of
| the improved camera, not performance (or even battery life).
|
| My old iPhone 8 (2017) is still getting updates, and now _is_
| moderately pokey with nontrivial apps, but the OS is fine.
| And I get it with regards to apps, as the perf and battery
| improvements between the A11 and the A13 chips was pretty
| significant.
| pjmlp wrote:
| I wasn't talking about the modern ones, naturally they
| still aren't old enough to suffer from that.
|
| As you tell yourself, the iPhone 8 isn't its former self
| with its original iOS version.
| eropple wrote:
| It's also _six years old_ and where it 's pokey tends to
| be _apps_ , not the OS. The browser, mostly. Turns out we
| all like to write a lot of JavaScript, I guess?
|
| Even if that weren't the case, a six-year-old iPhone 8
| has out-survived the useful, secure life of, what,
| _every_ Android device not made directly by Google? Hell,
| a 3.5-year-old iPhone 11 has out-survived the useful,
| secure life of the overwhelming majority of Android
| devices, too. And, further, given that A11- >A13 was the
| most significant period of perf improvement and energy
| reductions (the A14/A15 are moderately faster but the
| tail certainly appears to be here), that bodes well for
| its continuing usefulness.
| pjmlp wrote:
| 80% of the world doesn't care about those performance
| enhancements at the price of a laptop replacement.
|
| Apps or OS doesn't matter, they are interwined.
| eropple wrote:
| I have bad news for you about the performance of flagship
| Android devices from 2017, man.
| jstummbillig wrote:
| > Not really, and definitely not with more modern ones. I
| have an iPhone 11 from 2019. It was released with iOS 13.
| It is now running iOS 16.1.1. It is as snappy as the day I
| bought it.
|
| I mean.. that is (on average) roughly 2.5 years old. If
| your phone was expensive and is still fairly new, then it's
| not going to be affected by the stuff that pertains old,
| mid-tier phones, before it gets even older than those.
|
| That's not an Apple/iPhone property but I find it
| fascinating, that they are able to sell it as such.
| eropple wrote:
| I bought mine at release, to replace an iPhone 6 (which
| itself replaced an Android device of higher spec because
| I was tired of the treadmill and a friend sold it to me
| used). So mine's closer to 3.5 years old than to 2.5.
|
| And when you slot that against Android options, 3.5 years
| is a lot for a usable, secure life of a mobile device. I
| can safely assume I'll get five years of good, secure
| perf out of any Apple device from the last five years and
| another 2-3 years (at minimum) of tolerable performance,
| and that's pretty hard to argue with in this market.
|
| Don't get me wrong, it's not _enough_ and I 'd like it to
| be better; I'd like _all_ hardware reusability to be
| better. I 'm pretty big on it; I still have an iPad 3 and
| a Nexus 7 in use as house kiosks (which sidesteps the
| security issue that phones necessarily have). But if I am
| maximizing useful life, buying Apple devices has been
| less fraught for most, if not all, of my adult life.
| irowe wrote:
| I'm now to the point where I frequently have first party
| apps crash on my iPhone 7, plus the screen has phantom
| touch issues. I really don't want to replace it though.
| thrashh wrote:
| I was using an iPhone 10 with the latest iOS versions until
| last week and didn't have any issues
| pjmlp wrote:
| Now try the same with an iPhone 5.
| crazygringo wrote:
| They really don't.
|
| IIRC, there was only one prominent case of that happening
| (slowing down noticeably), I think it was iOS 7 on the iPhone
| 4 but I might be wrong about that. And I think they fixed it
| a bunch in 7.1, so it wasn't even for that long.
|
| But ever since then Apple really _hasn 't_ pushed updates
| that slow the phone meaningfully. Instead they gatekeep new
| features to newer models that can support it, which makes
| sense.
| tuetuopay wrote:
| Well I'm happy to have a bit slower phone to be able to use
| it fully for 7 years, with all security updates and current
| apps (again, with their respective security updates).
|
| Did you actually daily drive one? Because I did use an iPhone
| 6S for its full software support span (7 years) and yes, by
| the end of 2022 it was definitely the fastest kid on the
| block. But to run messaging apps, play music, grab quick
| pictures and scroll memes in the subway, it's more than fine.
| pjmlp wrote:
| When doing projects on Apple ecosystem, yep.
| ck2 wrote:
| It will likely be running LineageOS (formerly Cyanogenmod) for
| a decade to come.
| secondcoming wrote:
| My current Nokia phone has 3 years of support
| input_sh wrote:
| Fairphone that's mentioned in the article has 7 years of
| support (IIRC).
|
| Never used it though, my last 3 phones were all from Nokia.
| It's pretty much the only manufacturer that still releases new
| stock (Android One) models regularly.
|
| (Excluding too-expensive-for-my-taste Pixels and some Motorolas
| I could never find in my country).
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > and some Motorolas I could never find in my country
|
| Hm? Writing this on g30 and Motos aren't popular here for
| years.
|
| Edit: like I bought the cheapest Samsung last year and the
| experience is night and day.
| w4rh4wk5 wrote:
| Does it have a headphone jack?
| haunter wrote:
| Yes
| jonas-w wrote:
| yes it does
|
| https://www.nokia.com/phones/nokia-g-22/specs
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| I have an iPhone Pro Max 13, and you can mark my words - I am
| selling this and getting a couple of these G22's. This sounds
| fantastic. I cannot wait.
| hajola wrote:
| Curious, what is the reason you would consider buying more than
| 1?
| Nextgrid wrote:
| Spare parts?
| tastysandwich wrote:
| > It runs Android 12 and will be supported for three years of
| monthly security updates and two major Android version upgrades.
|
| They couldn't get Android 13 in time? Seeing as it's already a
| major version behind, and 14 will be released in August 2023,
| you're really only getting another six months of software support
| (plus security fixes).
|
| I'm not an Android dev but my understanding is that a lot of work
| has been put into making Android easier to upgrade major versions
| (eg, core functionality being split out into separate services).
| It doesn't look like that is translating into longer upgrade
| support, which is a shame. But I suppose that's why we're getting
| 5 years of security updates? (which is probably most important)
| Groxx wrote:
| Given how much of an absolute mess 12 was for me on a Pixel
| phone, and the massive delays and pushback from other
| manufacturers, I would kinda have hoped they would use 11 or
| jump to 13.
|
| 12 was easily the least stable Android I've ever used, and
| that's _including_ three years of constant beta (sometimes
| nightly) use while I did Android development.
| cristiioan wrote:
| Outside the major brands(Samsung, etc), many cheap phones ship
| with an older version from release. Probably because it is
| cheaper?
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