[HN Gopher] 90% of Kidnappings in Sao Paulo result from dates on...
___________________________________________________________________
90% of Kidnappings in Sao Paulo result from dates on Tinder and
similar apps
Author : laurex
Score : 127 points
Date : 2023-03-01 19:47 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (restofworld.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (restofworld.org)
| mrkramer wrote:
| For example dating app can require background security check in
| order to register and use the app. Sounds like a good business
| idea. Somebody do it....I have other ideas that I work on.
| gowld wrote:
| They do. https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-
| tinders-free...
| sn0wf1re wrote:
| Wouldn't that just lead to a false sense of security? Surely
| the background check would not be 100% at preventing bad
| actors.
| danrocks wrote:
| Worse: may lead to liability as well. "but Tinder said it was
| secure due to bg checks!"
| gowld wrote:
| You mean like they already do?
| https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/13/match-expands-tinders-
| free...
| honkler wrote:
| [flagged]
| standardUser wrote:
| The General Social Survey found that "the portion of Americans
| 18 to 29 reporting no sex in the past year more than doubled
| between 2008 and 2018, to 23 percent."
|
| https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame...
| honkler wrote:
| 23% in 2018. It was about ~35% or so in 2022 IIRC.
|
| And then you have to also factor in that men tend to lie a
| bit on these surveys.
|
| Also factor in that it's only asking if they got laid in the
| past 1 year. Do it 6 months, and the figure shoots way up.
| IMHO, the time gap should be no more than a month or so. That
| would define real incels. 1 year is way too much.
| skyyler wrote:
| "Real incels are people that haven't had sex for a month"
|
| What do you mean by this?
| honkler wrote:
| That men who want sex, but cannot have it for a period of
| month should be counted as incels regardless of whether
| they think they are incels or not.
|
| People seek divorce if their spouse isn't having sex with
| them for a month. I am applying that same heuristic to
| inceldom.
| standardUser wrote:
| That's insane nonsense.
| standardUser wrote:
| > "If I am 51 and she is 23, how can I not think I am being
| catfished for a possible robbery?"
|
| The man makes a fair point. Personally, I don't go on a date
| unless I am convinced this person and I have some things in
| common and would actually have a good time hanging out. If one
| party is worried, they can ask for a phone call/video chat or to
| exchange social media. I have a feeling many men are far less
| discerning and are simply "swiping right" on everyone and then
| engage with any of the resulting "matches" that give them the
| time of day.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| >many men are far less discerning and are simply "swiping
| right" on everyone and then engage with any of the resulting
| "matches"
|
| Hey, _customers_ - see how the app company is allowing you to
| be treated?
| expertentipp wrote:
| > I don't go on a date unless I am convinced this person and I
| have some things in common and would actually have a good time
| hanging out. If one party is worried, they can ask for a phone
| call/video chat or to exchange social media.
|
| In a balanced environment this would work. Dating, apartment
| rental, and job search markets notoriously aren't balanced
| environments.
|
| > men are far less discerning and are simply "swiping right" on
| everyone and then engage with any of the resulting "matches"
| that give them the time of day.
|
| This here is the reality. It doesn't matter what you want and
| feel.
| gowld wrote:
| Why would every prostitute be a robber? If this is happening,
| it's a failure of law enforcement and sociery.
|
| I matched someone 1 year younger than me. I was catfished for a
| robbery -- she got my house, my money, and my kids.
| expertentipp wrote:
| Male profiles have negative value for dating apps, so it's better
| for a man to ignore fishy profiles than to report them with any
| negative feedback and risk a nuclear ban. Can we shred the Match
| group into pieces, please?
| kansface wrote:
| It seems like it would be trivially easy for the Police to set up
| stings.
| standardUser wrote:
| Sure, and instead of wasting billions every year busting low-
| level drug dealers our governments could be going after spousal
| abusers and date-rapists and setting up stings for sexual
| assaults in high-crime areas. You know, crimes with actual
| victims.
|
| But preventing violence against women has always been among the
| lowest priorities for law enforcement. So naturally, sexual
| violence against men, which is far rarer, is even farther off
| the radar. But of course we gotta stop those pesky drugs users
| and small-time peddlers at any cost!
| [deleted]
| iepathos wrote:
| Everything seems trivial when you trivialize the problem. Sao
| Paulo has an extremely high crime and violence rate aside from
| any dating app kidnappings. The city and country's problems
| extend far beyond dating apps and redirecting resources from
| other violent crimes to "stinging" all the bad actors on dating
| apps won't magically solve things for them or even reduce their
| overall violent crimes with their resources shifted. They've no
| doubt already caught multiple people performing these kinds of
| kidnappings, but it's just a drop in the bucket.
| 8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote:
| Out of all the dating apps Tinder has done the absolute bare
| minimum to ensure the safety of its members.
|
| The number of active fake profiles on there in large metropolitan
| areas is mind boggling. They've known this for years and done
| absolutely nothing to address it. I imagine it would affect the
| numbers significantly. I have completely given up on the app
| given the % of fake users who are there to take advantage of
| someone's loneliness.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| I'd wager that Match has contracted out the creation and
| maintenance of fake accounts.
| technion wrote:
| I'm fairly convinced if tinder actually killed fake profiles it
| would go bankrupt. Not in terms of total user count, but in
| terms of female user count.
|
| It's already basically a meme to talk about the horrible m/f
| ratio. The number floating around of 20% female doesn't take
| into account the high population of "don't respond to messages
| here, if you're hot hmu on my OF" profiles, which is about one
| in four profiles here.
|
| But moreover the number of crypto scammers is extremely high.
| At one point I had like eight reading the same script to me on
| the same day. And tinder actually makes it so you can't report
| them, seemingly going out of its way to protect this revenue
| stream.
| yosito wrote:
| From the headline, I assumed that this was men kidnapping women.
| But it is actually men being baited by profiles of women an
| kidnapped or robbed. This is also quite common in Colombia. I
| heard a story of a Dutch guy who met a very eager woman from
| Tinder. She drugged his drink, and he ended up naked with no
| belongings at the bottom of a well. Somehow managed to escape
| alive.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| >I heard a story of a...
|
| Sauce?
| whymauri wrote:
| Not the same story, but it's covered frequently in Colombian
| national and local news. Here is an example:
|
| https://ktla.com/news/local-news/a-cruel-and-senseless-
| crime...
|
| The highest risk cities are Medellin (high expat population)
| and Cartagena (high tourist population). No matter how much I
| tell my friends not to use Tinder in Latin America, they
| still try and end up in close calls. One friend ended up in a
| 'Millionaire's Ride' extortioned to buy overpriced cocaine.
| jfengel wrote:
| And it sounds like men in Sao Paulo need to start doing what
| women have been doing since the beginning of dating: always
| letting somebody know where they are, always meeting first in a
| public place, never taking a drink from anybody except a
| bartender.
|
| For men elsewhere, it's really good for them to know that women
| do this, and that this is why. You may know that you're not the
| man who does that, but they don't, and the consequences can be
| worse than losing your wallet. Practically every woman knows a
| woman who has been assaulted this way. Understanding that will
| help you plan your dates accordingly so that she can feel a lot
| more comfortable, and you'll both have a much better time.
| hcarvalhoalves wrote:
| The reason this happens with men is what the article doesn't
| mention: most/all the victims are married men cheating on
| their partners. So, they arrange dates on empty or far away
| places, late night and don't communicate where they're going.
| RajT88 wrote:
| Yeah, I mean, if you think about it - they're the best
| targets. Least likely to go to the police afterward.
| [deleted]
| notch898a wrote:
| Married men are also probably the richest marriage+sex
| classification. I can't imagine catfishing a bunch of
| single 18 - 22 year olds that dominates dating apps is
| super profitable.
| elzbardico wrote:
| Just out of curiousity, where did you get this data from?
| could you share the link?
| LanceH wrote:
| Comment about the victims being male. Response about how men
| can change their behavior for women.
| majormajor wrote:
| This advice is given all the damn time. You've never seen
| an article about how to be safe on blind dates or such? A
| quick google search turns up several.
|
| Is it that _women 's problems are invisible to you until
| men start having some of them_?
| elil17 wrote:
| Obviously no one should have to be so careful. We should
| aspire to have a society where all people are safe from
| crime. But this is the reality of the world right now, and
| it is helpful to suggest that men take a page from women's
| playbooks when it comes to personal safety.
| jfengel wrote:
| You're absolutely right. Just as we should be teaching boys
| not to assault women, we should be teaching girls not to
| drug and rob men.
|
| That doesn't seem to be as big a problem yet, but we should
| nip it in the bud before it spreads beyond Sao Paulo. Every
| parent should teach their daughters that robbing men is
| wrong. Just as every parent should be teaching their sons
| that raping women is wrong.
|
| There is no excuse. Whether he's wearing a Rolex, or she's
| wearing a miniskirt, that's their choice to make. It is not
| an invitation, and you are not entitled to anything.
|
| Rape is a crime, and robbery is a crime. We should
| prosecute both, and make sure our children get the message
| that it is unacceptable.
|
| I appreciate your reminder that the criminal, not the
| victim, is to blame. It's unfortunate that people do have
| to protect themselves, but I hadn't intended my advice to
| suggest that that's the only change we should make. We
| already have laws and must enforce them.
| callmetom wrote:
| [dead]
| gowld wrote:
| Oh, we forgot to tell criminals to not be criminal. What
| a silly overight.
| jfengel wrote:
| Unfortunately, this is a real problem for women. A lot of
| boys get the impression that women are "teasing" them and
| "deserve" to be assaulted. Every woman who files rape
| charges knows that she's going to have her sexual history
| questioned, and be asked what she was wearing, as if that
| made a difference to the legality.
|
| You wouldn't think that "No means no" is a lesson we'd
| have to teach, but not only do we have to, but a lot of
| people will push back on it.
|
| So I'm being a bit facetious in my reply, but I'm using
| the opportunity of the OP's self-pity to reiterate: this
| is a thing that women go through all the time.
| epicureanideal wrote:
| > A lot of boys get the impression that women are
| "teasing" them and "deserve" to be assaulted.
|
| I don't know which alternate universe you might be
| observing, but in this universe that is simply not true.
| pelasaco wrote:
| don't forget the every woman is a robber in potential /s
| sn0wf1re wrote:
| The response is how to take basic steps to protect one's
| self. Steps that are already common among women. Basic
| safety steps are not victim blaming, for example, wearing
| bright clothing at night to reduce the chance of being
| injured by motor vehicle.
|
| It seems you are implying that the comment is victim
| blaming, or if I take your statement less charitably it is
| flame bait implying that the comment above would cause
| outrage if the genders were swapped.
| LanceH wrote:
| > Understanding that will help you plan your dates
| accordingly so that she can feel a lot more comfortable,
| and you'll both have a much better time.
|
| All the points were valid, but when people talk about the
| invisibility of male victims...this is it.
| saagarjha wrote:
| This advice is literally exactly what every woman is
| told. It has nothing to do with male victims.
| luckylion wrote:
| > Basic safety steps are not victim blaming
|
| I agree, but it's 100% called victim blaming when you
| apply it to women. "We shouldn't have to do anything
| differently", "teach men not to rape" etc etc.
|
| I don't think anyone here disagrees, they're pointing out
| the double standard.
| vkou wrote:
| Whether a statement is victim-blaming or not depends on
| the _purpose_ behind it.
|
| If the purpose behind it is to give helpful, relevant,
| _useful_ advice for avoiding a bad situation, it 's not
| victim blaming.
|
| If the purpose behind it is to downplay and deflect and
| ignore the _other_ causes of the bad situation, it is.
|
| If someone isn't wearing a seatbelt, and dies in an auto
| accident, it's not victim blaming to remind people to
| wear seatbelts. It is victim blaming to use that reminder
| to divert attention away from the fact that the auto
| accident was caused by another drunk driver.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Either way, you're dead. Why is it wrong to point out
| things that could have been done to avoid that outcome?
| jfengel wrote:
| Honestly, my purpose was neither. This is, thus far, a
| localized matter, and it's unlikely to affect most men.
| The advice is sound, but that's not really the purpose.
| (And it was very much not intended to blame them.)
|
| Rather, my purpose was to use the opportunity to give men
| perspective about women. And it's something they can use
| to their benefit: not to avoid being robbed, but to have
| more successful dates.
| skyyler wrote:
| But women already get that advice of meeting in public /
| telling friends... If this is some kind of "gotcha", I
| think you're doing it wrong.
| luckylion wrote:
| Go give women that advice, see what happens.
|
| Again, it's solid advice. But you'll get torn apart if
| you publicly give "be safe first, be right second" advice
| to women.
| JohnFen wrote:
| You don't need to give that advice to women. They've
| already gotten it, almost certainly from other women.
|
| Given how women are often treated by men, I totally
| understand why they would chafe at being given this sort
| of advice from a man. I would, too, if I were in their
| shoes.
|
| Apparently there are a lot of men who haven't received
| this advice from anyone, though, even though it always
| applied to them as well.
| RajT88 wrote:
| > But you'll get torn apart if you publicly give "be safe
| first, be right second" advice to women.
|
| Because it's patronizing to think they don't know that.
| dustingetz wrote:
| "thirst trap"
| goldfeld wrote:
| Yes, it seems the title is using "dates" only to attract
| eyeballs, even "matches" would be better here.
| thriftwy wrote:
| In St. Petersburg, Russia, there was reportedly a restaurant
| where a fake date would invite men and then quote them exorbitant
| sum (order of magnitude higher than expected) for food and drink.
|
| All the profits, none of the risks of criminal persecution.
|
| Russian has a slang word, _dynamo_ , for the attractive women who
| date without romantic interest just to get dined & maybe some
| presents, and then bail out.
| numbers_guy wrote:
| Apparently that is common in many tourist traps, not only in
| Russia.
| luckylion wrote:
| I've seen it as "get into a seedy bar, have women chat you up
| and ask whether they can join you for a drink, get presented
| a huge bill", but women going on dating apps to get men to
| the bars is a different level. It makes sense obviously,
| digitalization doesn't stop at scams.
| myth_drannon wrote:
| It's very common scam and not only in Russia. A woman splits
| the profits with the restaurant that charges the naive Western
| tourists 10x of normal bill(actually it can be without a woman
| trap involvment). The same can happen with a clothing store.
| Some guys can spend like $1000 on woman's clothes which she
| promptly returns and gets part of her share. Heck even on Greek
| islands, many clubs had attractive ladies on payrol to get the
| guys in and buy drinks.
| thriftwy wrote:
| I don't believe they targeted foreign tourists specifically,
| rather than local dudes from Tinder.
| gowld wrote:
| Tourists are much easier marks for these scams. Locals
| know, have less money, and more local support.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| I have heard variations of this scam in other places around the
| world. I think it's sadly a somewhat common scam.
|
| Either a fake date or someone in front of the cafe or bar leads
| you in. You have a few drinks and are subsequently presented
| with an outrageous bill, and a few burly men have appeared out
| of nowhere preventing you from leaving. Police don't really
| care since you're just a foreigner.
|
| Abroad in Japan (a great YouTube channel about Japan) recently
| made a good video on the topic: https://youtu.be/NeZUOFKOUeI
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| That is a very common scam in China. If the girl you just met
| is too good to be true, ya, you are going to get scammed.
| velavar wrote:
| This is good advice but I fear it's only a matter of time
| before scammers realize this and turn up as dates that are
| quite believable similar to your average Joe/Jane.
| thriftwy wrote:
| Maybe they don't want that. They don't want you as The
| Reasonable Guy show up and react upon all the warning signs
| and be a nuisance.
|
| What they want is to have extra careless, out-of-touch guys
| to filter themselves in by responding to somewhat
| questionable profile.
| mysterydip wrote:
| Reminds me of how scammers will intentionally use bad
| grammar/spelling in emails to filter out "low conversion
| rate" prospects.
| yibg wrote:
| Similar to the tea house scams in China. Targets mostly
| tourists at popular sites.
| monksy wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_joint
| expertentipp wrote:
| I wondered the origin such places in Poland, that's how they
| arrived! Meanwhile it's mafia covered by local police and
| politicians, importing the best capitalist practices. Prague
| in Czechia is also notorious for these kind of places.
| hugocbp wrote:
| Just a couple of notes:
|
| Pix is not an app but a platform (like INTERAC in Canada). It
| works with most banks and most people with bank account now have
| it.
|
| Not only that, it is not just a QR app. You can send money to any
| key, that can be:
|
| - An email
|
| - CPF (unique SIN / SSN number that in Brazil is not considered
| secret)
|
| - Telephone number
|
| - Randomly generated key
|
| The transactions are also, for the most part, instantaneous
| (think 1-2 seconds) and irreversible (as far as I know).
|
| Even if you only have in your phone apps for banks without a Pix
| key, it is trivial and fast to create one. Unfortunately the only
| way out of this is to never have on your phone a bank app (and
| they can even force you to download one on the spot if you are
| actually kidnapped).
|
| Also, from someone who was carjacked in the past in Brazil: this
| has always happened here. I think it is simply the delivery
| method that is changing. Unfortunately, ban those apps and the
| bad guys will just go back to randomly kidnapping / carjacking
| people on the streets of rich neighbourhoods like they did in the
| past.
| drukenemo wrote:
| Agree with your comments, but as a Brazilian too, I feel the
| need to emphasize that although this kind of thing happens,
| it's not that high of a risk that it will happen to you. I'm
| from Rio and personally don't know anybody who has suffered
| such crime. I felt like adding this comment because "this has
| always happened here" could be interpreted as "this happens all
| the time to a lot of people".
| hugocbp wrote:
| I think that the risk part is relative.
|
| I've been robbed 8 times in 30 years in Brazil. From having
| my watch stolen at 14 by someone with a broken glass to the
| carjack I talked about previously. My family and close
| friends, for the most part, have been robbed, kidnapped or
| carjacked 0 times.
|
| It is a numbers game. I, unfortunately, have been on the
| unlucky side. It is one of the main reasons I left for
| Canada.
|
| So while I do agree that is not something that happens every
| day to your circle of known people, it does happen more often
| than it should even if you are not on the high crime zones.
|
| And I'm not even from Rio or the most dangerous cities, I'm
| from Belo Horizonte which, for Brazilian standards, is
| actually considered more on the safer side for bigger cities.
| notch898a wrote:
| People in South America where all the criminals have guns
| should definitely not research the FGC-9 which might give
| them some chance of ending up in jail instead of dead when
| the violent criminal approaches.
| wbl wrote:
| Do they not have Reg E and KYC in Brazil? Seems like taking a
| ransom by electronic payment should lead to very fast arrest
| when you try to move the money from that account.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| [flagged]
| [deleted]
| potatototoo99 wrote:
| Jesus Christ.
| the-smug-one wrote:
| You're on HN. You're probably rich relative to the would-be
| robbers in Brazil.
| hugocbp wrote:
| Just to be clear: not everyone on the streets of a rich
| neighbourhood is rich. This is just where they go to try to
| commit those crimes.
|
| Actually some of those bad guys get so frustrated when they
| end up snatching someone that is not rich that they often
| physically hurt them or worst.
|
| So your comment is very out of place.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-03-01 23:00 UTC)