[HN Gopher] Twitter will open source all code used to recommend ...
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       Twitter will open source all code used to recommend tweets on March
       31
        
       Author : dgrin91
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2023-03-18 21:18 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nitter.bird.froth.zone)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nitter.bird.froth.zone)
        
       | t344344 wrote:
       | It would be great to have a commit history, bugzilla and content
       | of database.
        
       | danpalmer wrote:
       | I'm interested what the format of this will be (if it ever
       | happens).
       | 
       | There's never just "an algorithm", there might be a model, there
       | might be a bunch of feature extraction code, there might be a
       | server that runs it all, but none of these would be that useful
       | in isolation, it's likely that all would be needed to be able to
       | get an accurate idea of the behaviour of the system. But, as Musk
       | says - no one really understands it all, so even then is that
       | really useful?
       | 
       | What may be more useful is releasing a set of policies, or
       | product decisions about recommendations. Not necessarily code
       | that implements them, but the ideas and _values_ of the system
       | and the people building it. The code would likely only be an
       | approximation of that, but the policies /decisions are really the
       | part most people can or will engage with.
        
         | vishal0123 wrote:
         | Just because you can't run it doesn't mean it wouldn't be
         | useful. This likely will give insight on the kind of modelling,
         | experiments, goal function, deployment methods, resiliency etc.
         | And you could easily reverse engineer policy decision with
         | code(IMO), but other way is not possible.
        
       | laverya wrote:
       | I really hope this slips a day and releases April 1st instead.
        
       | totalhack wrote:
       | Translation: we can't figure out a good way to do this. Let's get
       | community feedback/help.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nonethewiser wrote:
         | This is something he said he'd do before buying Twitter.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | muglug wrote:
       | This is such a weird thing to do.
       | 
       | Are they going to take pull requests? Or will they just publish a
       | read-only code dump?
       | 
       | Will they include Git history? If not, how will anyone hope to
       | understand the code that Twitter engineers themselves apparently
       | don't understand?
       | 
       | Also are they publishing the spam detection algorithms? That's
       | implicitly part of the recommendation system, but I bet it's a
       | separate service.
        
         | operator-name wrote:
         | > People will discover many silly things , but we'll patch
         | issues as soon as they're found!
         | 
         | Like maybe? I'm sure it'll get a lot of eyes, so I guess
         | they're hoping for some free labour?
        
         | eh9 wrote:
         | Bold of you to assume they've paid their GitHub bill
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | i m sure it's de rigueur to diss Musk, but this is smart for
       | business. Twitter's recommendations arent that great and i doubt
       | they re such a big driver of traffic (i use the chronological
       | mode and it s not much different). The EU will now have to eat
       | its paper, cause they are trying to pass laws about this, and the
       | EU has solely called Musk to testify in the parliament. If true,
       | this pulls the rug under a lot of very opinionated people
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | Smart ? Isn't it a risk that Twitter (the company) gets
         | litigated because it has done illegal or unfair things in the
         | past ?
         | 
         | If some politics discover that Twitter has influenced in one
         | way, they may be able to sue for example.
         | 
         | Or if there were illegal discriminations.
         | 
         | Also it makes it much easier for scammers to game the
         | algorithm.
         | 
         | The smart move would be to do nothing, as nobody has ever asked
         | for Twitter's ranking algorithms.
        
           | seydor wrote:
           | I doubt they will release that stuff. probably just some core
           | sorting routines
           | 
           | > as nobody has ever asked for Twitter's ranking algorithms.
           | 
           | Actually many many people have. And this is good PR for his
           | marketing department
        
       | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
       | Well, that'll be interesting. I wonder if this will reveal how
       | Elon's tweets are given special weighting?
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | pseudo-code:
         | 
         | if following:                 rank += 10
         | 
         | else if elonmusk                 rank += 9999999
         | 
         | else                 rank = 1
        
           | tonetheman wrote:
           | [dead]
        
       | Sebguer wrote:
       | Ah, yes, Elon promising a deadline for a release. Those always
       | hit on target.
       | 
       | Even better that there's absolutely no indication of what this
       | will actually look like.
        
         | stametseater wrote:
         | At least he's not soliciting pre-orders this time.
        
         | misssocrates wrote:
         | Over optimistic estimates is how you know he's a real engineer.
        
           | themitigating wrote:
           | Or an idiot
        
             | LanceJones wrote:
             | It wouldn't be HN without the requisite 3- or 4-word digs
             | at Elon Musk.
        
               | themitigating wrote:
               | Because he's an idiot
        
           | BirAdam wrote:
           | Yeah. Almost all engineers I know (including myself) have a
           | tendency to be overly optimistic about how long something
           | will take.
        
         | archgoon wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | antiquark wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | Invictus0 wrote:
       | Elon also said he would resign as CEO
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | esperent wrote:
       | A renowned liar with a huge audience makes a claim and suddenly
       | we're seeing it presented as fact all over the place. Where have
       | I seen this before?
        
         | drexlspivey wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
       | nonethewiser wrote:
       | This is good news. Give credit where it's due.
        
         | jeromegv wrote:
         | You give credit when it's done. Not on announcements.
         | 
         | He already promised it "next week" a while ago.
        
       | LanceJones wrote:
       | I still get a laugh from all those people who insisted Twitter
       | wouldn't last days... let alone months without having some major
       | outage. Wrong, all.
        
         | x86x87 wrote:
         | elon? Is that you?
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/technology/twitter-down-thousands-us...
         | 
         | https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/06/tech/twitter-website-down/ind...
        
       | jsheard wrote:
       | February 21: _Twitter will open source the algorithm next week_
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1628122949185159168
        
         | lapcat wrote:
         | It's like the Seinfeld episode where they're waiting 5-10
         | minutes for a restaurant table.
         | 
         | March 31 is suspiciously close to April 1.
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | FSD Teslas will be out next year [1]
         | 
         | [1] https://youtu.be/zhr6fHmCJ6k
        
           | rrix2 wrote:
           | SpaceX will put humans on Mars by 2024 [1]
           | 
           | https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-humans-on-mars-
           | in-...
        
         | cidergal wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | KomoD wrote:
       | Link to the normal site instead of whatever that dog slow site
       | is: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1636835209587949570
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | Dang, can we get the url updated to point to this?
        
         | danpalmer wrote:
         | Looks like it's a Fediverse server that mirrors Twitter.
        
           | INTPenis wrote:
           | It's nitter, it's a privacy respecting frontend to twitter.
           | Has nothing to do with the fediverse.
           | 
           | And I agree, linking it on HN is just a childish way of
           | showing you're not down with Twitter. Don't force your views
           | on others.
           | 
           | I run my own nitter instance for a group of friends, the
           | secret is to never link it publicly because the traffic will
           | destroy it.
        
             | danpalmer wrote:
             | Ah that's a shame it's not actually integrated into the
             | fediverse, it would be nice to be able to reference Tweets
             | and Twitter users.
        
               | MiguelX413 wrote:
               | That's exactly what
               | https://github.com/NicolasConstant/BirdsiteLive is, their
               | purposes are distinct
        
             | jonas-w wrote:
             | Yeah, its just a slow instance. This [0] one seems to be
             | faster. But yeah, they get "destroyed" easily, the same for
             | piped/invidious or libreddit.
             | 
             | [0]: https://nitter.tiekoetter.com/elonmusk/status/16368352
             | 095879...
        
             | MiguelX413 wrote:
             | Linking to the proprietary websites would be forcing
             | something on others, not linking to user-respecting
             | mirrors.
        
             | jonas21 wrote:
             | When INTPenis calls you childish, that's when you know
             | you're really being childish.
        
           | KomoD wrote:
           | Yeah and it's insanely slow, 37 seconds to load the web
           | manifest, 35 seconds to load the HTML document and ~20
           | seconds per image
        
       | bradreaves2 wrote:
       | Do they know that March 31 is actually a real day?
        
         | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
         | Hush, April Ludgate might hear you!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | wise_young_man wrote:
       | Tesla FSD is also coming any day now too.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | > Our "algorithm" is overly complex & not fully understood
       | internally. People will discover many silly things , but we'll
       | patch issues as soon as they're found! [...] Providing code
       | transparency will be incredibly embarrassing at first, but it
       | should lead to rapid improvement in recommendation quality.
       | 
       | Sounds like Elon wants to crowdsource the analysis work.
        
         | WinstonSmith84 wrote:
         | After having fired many of the devs, and the remaining ones not
         | figuring out what all this is about, this looks like a
         | desperate (or smart?) move to fix things while not spending a
         | cent...
        
           | valevino wrote:
           | Why you say that the remaining developers are not able to
           | understand the algorithm?
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | It's literally in the quote above:
             | 
             | > Our "algorithm" is [...] not fully understood internally.
        
           | inglor_cz wrote:
           | The interesting question is: can it work?
           | 
           | Unlike with the software itself, there was never a serious
           | attempt to open-source such algorithms in the big social
           | media space. Obscurity was the undisputed king.
           | 
           | I would be glad if this attempt actually worked out. Sunlight
           | is said to be the best disinfectant. But there will be a lot
           | of bad actors trying to nudge the resulting algorithm
           | somewhere in a subtle way. I wonder if all of them can be
           | detected.
        
         | chitowneats wrote:
         | Sounds like a smart decision. A lot of people care about this
         | and would like input. So much so that they will work for free.
         | I fail to see why this is an issue from Musk's perspective or
         | from mine as a Twitter user.
        
       | bakugo wrote:
       | Love it when people post links to nitter/mastodon/etc instances
       | that can't handle the traffic from HN because their extreme
       | hatred of Elon Musk stops them from making rational decisions.
        
         | stametseater wrote:
         | nitter is simply a better browser interface than twitter
         | itself. It doesn't burn up my CPU doing god knows what or
         | interrupt my reading with popups asking me to create an
         | account.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | It is plainly, demonstrably worse in this case.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-18 23:00 UTC)