[HN Gopher] Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk int...
___________________________________________________________________
Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its
playgrounds (2021)
Author : mschuster91
Score : 194 points
Date : 2023-03-19 16:06 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| zabzonk wrote:
| I don't know, kids these days. You should have seen what we had
| to contend with in the 60s - huge lumps of flesh mangling metal,
| swinging at terrifying angles, throwing small children off in all
| directions. And no wimpy rubber mats to catch them. Sometimes, I
| wonder that I survived.
| munchler wrote:
| I took a steel see-saw to the face on one of those playgrounds
| in the 1970's. My little sister pulled her end down, which
| caused my end to shoot up unexpectedly. Ouch. Ruined my day for
| sure.
| grogenaut wrote:
| I let my brother (6?) unsupervised for one minute and some
| much larger kid got on the other side jumped up and when they
| came back down my brothers face smashed into the metal pipe
| handle bars splitting his lip wide open, he came right over
| streaming blood, I was 8, so I immediately went to find mom
| and dad who were doing champion hunting dog obedience
| qualifiers and I think I saw dad first who was actually
| showing the dog at the time and walked into the show area to
| get him. Immediately to the hospital. Pretty sure dad was
| non-plussed but also pouring blood.
| zabzonk wrote:
| better than an arrow to the knee, i guess :-)
| 123pie123 wrote:
| reminds me of when I was a kid in the UK, there was these
| places that was called 'funhouses' where kids was supposed to
| play, I was seriously terrified of dying. I'm unsure if it's my
| memory and/or if I was just too young
| swimfar wrote:
| I've heard stories from relatives about a funhouse like that
| on Coney Island. Supposedly there was a dark maze section
| with clowns that would walk around and shock you. As I got
| older I assumed some of it had to be made up. But at least
| part of the story is corroborated in this article about the
| Steeplechase Park:
|
| https://www.westland.net/coneyisland/articles/steeplechase2..
| ..
| 123pie123 wrote:
| thanks - I wonder how many unrecorded near deaths or
| injuries there where - I'm assuming back then if you
| complained you was classed as a coward - different world!
| zabzonk wrote:
| don't know about funhouse, but playgrounds were very scary.
| the most scary one, which would intimadate a brave man
| (amongst whom i was living - RAF pilots) was called "the
| boat" (if i remember correctly) which was a steel plank
| (which you sat on), supported by 4 steel struts, attached,
| swiveling, to a steel frame. it took some effort to get this
| monster swinging (like sitting on a normal swing and doing
| the stuff you do) but once it got going the momentum was
| tremendous. there was limiting mechanism to stop it going
| over the top. most kids too terrified to ride it to that
| point (humiliating admission: i was too scared).
|
| the other scary thing you could do with it was to grab hold
| of the plank on the up-swing, which would boost you high in
| the air. you had to have a nice touch of judgement on where
| you let go, if you didn't want multiple broken bones.
| ianlevesque wrote:
| Literally survivor bias!
| screwturner68 wrote:
| maybe it's just my old man memory but when I was young in the
| 70's there was always one or two kids in a cast, usually a
| broken arm -it was a bit of a badge of honor and something for
| everyone to sign. Now I almost never see a kid in a cast maybe
| medicine has gotten a lot better and things seem to have had
| the entire danger aspect removed from them. I wonder if play
| today is boring or there is so much safety that kids don't
| think anything about doing something stupid since they can't
| get hurt.
| runnerup wrote:
| 90's as well. Lots of casts. I didn't get one so I'm not sure
| how to judge the risk-reward.
| johannes1234321 wrote:
| I won't judge how the risk and injuries has changed. But
| medicine changed. The strict tied cascing is done less and
| for shorter periods these days. There are lighter and smaller
| orthoses these days, which can be worn under clothing and
| allow some flexibility.
| loganc2342 wrote:
| As a 2000s/2010s kid, I would word it the same way you did:
| "there was always one or two kids in a cast." If your wording
| is accurate to your experience then I don't think much has
| changed. If you don't physically work in a school then it's a
| tough pattern to monitor.
| daverol wrote:
| These people are amateurs: The USA lead the way:
| https://clickamericana.com/topics/family-parenting/life-for-...
| t344344 wrote:
| Playgrounds in Germany (and EU) are pretty safe. Child may fall,
| but there are no sharp corners, and ground is covered with grovel
| or rubber.
| chmod775 wrote:
| These things are ubiquitous in Berlin: https://stage.berliner-
| seilfabrik.com/wp-content/uploads/201...
|
| They're not actually that high to an adult, but I have childhood
| memories of these seeming somewhat tall and scary. On an average
| one, a young child can fall 4-6 times their own height (but not
| straight, you'll get buffered by the structure as you go down).
| danieldk wrote:
| Also in The Netherlands, our kid's after-school care playground
| has one. There is a quite tall one at another playground:
|
| https://speleninstad.nl/mooiste-speeltuinen/speelplek-hoorns...
|
| I grew up in a smaller village. We often climbed trees. I am
| pretty sure that this is safer.
| [deleted]
| koen_hendriks wrote:
| [dead]
| moonchrome wrote:
| > They're not actually that high to an adult
|
| Not the ones we have here in Croatia :
| https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/width960/57918118_91NXEE...
| rollcat wrote:
| Is this Bundek? I love the place
| nixass wrote:
| Then there's this in Zagreb (Maksimir), which wasn't intended
| for climbing ever, but we as kids certainly did it
|
| https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Park_Mak.
| ..
| Aulig wrote:
| Looks very similar to one we have in Karlsruhe, Germany :) ht
| tps://mein.toubiz.de/api/v1/media/6d3f180e-13b0-4346-b142-...
| PoignardAzur wrote:
| Pretty common in Paris too.
|
| I wish they made versions that were socially acceptable for
| adults to climb. These things were _awesome_.
| grayclhn wrote:
| Climbing gym :)
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| IIRC there's one in San Antonio that isn't explicitly just
| for children
| matsemann wrote:
| I'm only semi-joking, but perhaps join an obstacle course
| race, or a gymnastics class for adults. I've done both, and
| it's been so much fun. The obstacle course is all kinds of
| weird things you have to climb over and under (I'd avoid the
| mud variants, unless you like that aspect, though). And even
| though I never did gymnastics as a kid and am stiff as a
| stick, it was great fun to play around in a big hall with
| other equally bad adults trying to do gymnastics, climb
| ropes, forward rolls, jump into foam pits etc.
|
| Like being a kid again.
| throwaway742 wrote:
| Sounds awesome. A big thing for me would be finding a non-
| serious group. I just want to have fun.
| ryanjshaw wrote:
| The town I grew up in the 90s had much bigger versions of
| these. I'm not sure exactly how tall they were, but based on
| this photo [1] and my memories they were probably around
| 10-15m tall.
|
| [1] https://www.dynamoplaygrounds.com/understanding-climbing-
| net...
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| I just climb them regardless when no kids are around.
| Sharlin wrote:
| Nighttime, walking from a bar or whatever in a group of
| buzzed, happy young-ish adults (bonus points if you're
| students), climbing these becomes perfecly socially
| acceptable :D
| renewiltord wrote:
| There are a few in SF. After a night of clubbing, high and
| drunk we'd fall around on them after dark till one of us
| spotted a guard and then we'd walk away (the guard not
| wanting any trouble as much as us).
|
| In any case, the more socially acceptable way is the Spartan
| Race or a CrossFit gym.
| rokizero wrote:
| Childhood memories! Our playground had the same version shown
| in the linked image.
|
| You were considered cool when you dared to jump off the highest
| possible standing position. The wood chips softened the fall
| :-)
| LeanderK wrote:
| I think common in whole germany, but maybe not ubiquitous. I
| certainly remember them well and in my imagination they were
| giant!
| kspacewalk2 wrote:
| We've got these in many newer playgrounds in Canada. They're
| awesome and always full of kids.
| TheHappyOddish wrote:
| Not ubiquitous, but certainly common in Australia.
| fs111 wrote:
| I know at least two in Berlin that are pretty high even for
| adults. One is at John-Foster-Dulless-Allee in the Tiergarten
| the other next to Fritz-Schloss-Park in Moabit.
| mpweiher wrote:
| "... it's the strict policing of standards that enables a risk-
| accepting culture in the first place."
|
| Doesn't just apply to playgrounds.
| hirundo wrote:
| They are lowering the long term risk of too little short term
| risk, an unsafe excess of safety. This is a kind of behavioral
| hormesis. The dose/response curve of a potential toxin is seldom
| linear, including for jungle gyms.
| auggierose wrote:
| This is nothing new. These exist in Germany since at least 1985,
| and can be pretty high. Source: Climbed on them. Never fell.
| dayjaby wrote:
| Me as a 31 year old I climbed exactly this one with my young
| nephews.
|
| Berlin Frohnau is a very rich part of Berlin, so finding this
| quality of playgrounds is not that typical in Germany.
| EGreg wrote:
| Compare to USA in the early 1900s:
| https://www.vintag.es/2017/02/how-we-came-to-play-pictures-o...
| mschuster91 wrote:
| To add to the submission: I think there is one huge part why this
| is possible in the first place compared to the US, and the
| article just barely scrapes onto it: insurance.
|
| Like, when a kid gets injured here in Germany, mandatory
| healthcare insurance picks up the cost, and even if the
| maintainer can be held liable it's a few thousand euros in
| damages ("Schmerzensgeld") at most.
|
| In contrast, in the US healthcare insurances try to avoid paying
| up however possible, including shit such as forcing people to sue
| their family for healthcare cost. A paranoidly risk-averse
| society is the only thing that this can end up.
| dllthomas wrote:
| I remember playing on this as a child:
| https://playgroundology.wordpress.com/2018/06/29/whats-in-a-...
|
| Mixed feelings about it being unavailable to my children.
| 6_6_6 wrote:
| too little too late
| andrewfromx wrote:
| This makes me think of this article
| https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/04/hey-par...
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14241813
| _Microft wrote:
| There were some comments in a 2021 submission, among them one
| with links to a manufacturer's website that has good pictures of
| playground structures.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978056
| [deleted]
| janmarsal wrote:
| I remember when I was a teen I started noticing how the nanny
| state had managed to remove all the old swings I used to play
| with and replaced them with some tiny and safe swings that no one
| even uses anymore. Children even started wearing yellow safety
| vests to school all of a sudden. I'm glad there's at least some
| backlash to this nonsense.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school
| all of a sudden.
|
| Given how many accidents happen on the way to school
| ("Schulwegunfalle", yes we have a dedicated word for it), it's
| absolutely necessary. 62k accidents in 2021, and 16 dead kids
| [1].
|
| A large part of the cause is how absurdly car-centric our
| cities are - and yet, we're harmless compared to the US.
|
| [1] https://www.dguv.de/de/zahlen-
| fakten/schuelerunfallgeschehen...
| nicbou wrote:
| It's getting better, at least in Berlin.
|
| Besides, the quality of the drivers in Germany is far better
| than in the US in my experience.
| lynx23 wrote:
| "Absolutely necessary" is your personal opinion. I, for one,
| disagree with that.
| LeanderK wrote:
| > 16 dead kids
|
| of course every preventable death is too much and we should
| be aiming at zero...but 16 doesn't seem that much? I would
| have guessed more for sure.
| burnished wrote:
| It does seem a little hypocritical to follow up 'should aim
| for zero children dead from being ran over by vehicles'
| with 'but 16 is fine'
| mschuster91 wrote:
| In the last few years, the residential street where I live
| had multiple accidents caused by inattentive or plain
| racing drivers. One child ended up in hospital for weeks
| after being run over by a speeding car, a woman ended up
| dead after being run over by a lorry, and from my window I
| can see dangerous behavior from motorists alllll the time.
| Not good if you have three schools, (at least) two
| kindergartens and a sports area used by all of them.
|
| The problem is, the street is _fucking wide_ - it used to
| be the supply road for a beer factory and only got
| developed into pure residential and schools zoning two
| decades ago, and that seems to invite people to not give a
| fuck.
| riffic wrote:
| _accident_ is not the preferred term considering people
| intentionally drive the way we do
|
| https://laist.com/news/car-crash-accident-traffic-
| violence-l...
| matsemann wrote:
| > _Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school
| all of a sudden_
|
| Ban cars around schools. Ironically, the danger to kids walking
| to school is other parents driving their kid to school (a bit
| stressed, over the limit and probably on their phone).
| screwturner68 wrote:
| Things only gotten safer over the last 50 years and every kid
| walked to school in the 60's,70's & 80's but now the majority
| are carted in very large SUVs. Something changed and it's not
| safety. I'd also add that they walked to school without
| parental supervision pretty much from kindergarten forward. I
| think most parents today would have a heart attack if their
| 2nd grader walked to school alone (even though they likely
| did)
| themitigating wrote:
| What state manages playground equipment?
| leipert wrote:
| Many, if not most, public playgrounds are maintained by the
| city or municipality in Germany. Here in a larger city they
| are checked and cleaned weekly.
| themitigating wrote:
| So not the state?
| sircastor wrote:
| "The state" is a generic term that refers to the
| government, local, provincial, or larger.
| wizofaus wrote:
| I'd suggest it's not typically thought of as including
| local government. It is a peculiarly overloaded term
| though, particularly if you live in a country where
| "state" is a key governmental/administrative division! In
| the usage here - "nanny state" - I'd agree it can include
| local government and indeed even organisations operating
| below that level (it might just be a single school board
| making "nanny state" decisions).
| leipert wrote:
| Depends on your definition of state. If you really want
| to dig into it:
|
| The country, Germany, or a federal state like Bavaria,
| likely not directly but indirectly, due to how our tax
| system works. Different entities collect different taxes,
| but the cities and municipalities get a certain
| percentage of wage and sales tax for example. Often those
| taxes are not bound to be used for a certain purpose.
|
| But also we have city-states liked Berlin or Hamburg, and
| those directly fund and maintain their playgrounds.
| tanekloc wrote:
| Building risk into playgrounds so that no adult German ever takes
| risks and has insurance for every case :)
| fs111 wrote:
| how do you think Allianz got so big? ;)
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| >A sign urges parents to take off their children's cycle helmets
| in order to eliminate a strangulation risk.
|
| That's ironic - PPE that becomes dangerous in a different
| environment.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Another example: there's a reason the security briefing on
| airplanes tells you to not inflate the vest while still inside
| the cabin.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Also helicopters.
|
| There used to be a gentleman who gave the mandatory safety
| briefing before taking guests from Lundy Island by helicopter
| (the only travel option in winter months) who would make the
| point that if one person inflates their vest, the other
| passengers would lemming-like inflate their vests and then
| you suddenly find the cabin is filled with 5 or 6 inflated
| people that have no chance of getting out of the door. He
| always used to joke that the whistle was to amuse yourself
| until the coastguard arrived.
| paleogizmo wrote:
| Another common example: don't wear safety gloves when working
| with rotating equipment, as they can catch and drag one's hand
| in
| ip26 wrote:
| Helmets in particular have tremendous specificity, which is
| fascinating. Bicycle, ski, and motorcycle helmets have MIPS.
| Motorcycle helmets have chin guards. Bicycle helmets have side
| impact protection. Climbing helmets have puncture resistance
| and top impact protection. Ski helmets have puncture resistance
| and coverage close to a motorcycle helmet, but less cushion.
| I'm sure the list is long for hard hats as well.
|
| Kids helmets have started to show up with breakaway neck
| straps- the strap only need be so strong to prevent the helmet
| from slipping off in a crash.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| Someone I know designed playgrounds. One of his core concepts was
| that there's two aspects to safety.
|
| One is subjective. Like when you're high up and you see the
| ground beneath you, you know it'll hurt if you fall down, so
| you're more careful moving around.
|
| Then there's all the hidden dangers that kids don't think about
| or see[1], like a small gap where a cord from the clothing can
| get attached potentially leading to suffocation.
|
| The point being, the first aspect is something the kids should be
| able to expose themselves to. It teaches them about risk, but
| also can give them a goal and a sense of achievement when they
| finally dare to do something and succeed. His point was that this
| is an important part of their development, which could have
| knock-on effects later.
|
| However the playground should be designed such that any accident
| should not lead to permanent injury or death. Sure they might get
| a bit banged up if they misjudge, lesson hopefully learned, but
| nothing permanent.
|
| He was often in Germany to study their playgrounds for
| inspiration, and this article illustrates nicely why.
|
| [1]: https://www.utdanningsnytt.no/barnehage-grunnskole-
| leker/her...
| tunnuz wrote:
| Very interesting, I never thought of safety that way. Thanks
| for sharing this.
| jl6 wrote:
| There's a broader lesson here about finding ways to teach kids
| to handle minor failures in a consequence-capped environment.
| tda wrote:
| I remember when my kids were younger they always had difficulty
| climbing onto the cooler play structures. Somehow the first few
| steps of the entrance are the most difficult. So I just had to
| help them get on and they would be fine. At first this annoyed me
| a bit, but later I realized that this must be intentional; if the
| kid manages to get in/on the play structure in the first place,
| they'll probably be fine. If they fall when trying to get on it,
| they fall in the sand so also no problem. Only the kids with some
| physical ability are able to reach some height, the smallest have
| to stay on the ground
| groestl wrote:
| Came here to post this. I noticed as well, the first step is
| always adjusted to the target age group. So when he was
| smaller, my kid couldn't get into the structures that were not
| meant for him, but year after year more stuff became
| accessible. There were also structures with multiple difficulty
| levels at once, and different entrance obstacles tuned to them.
| Pretty neat I must say.
| Moru wrote:
| I always expected this to be the case, everything designed
| with some sort of safety aspect for kid playgrounds. Until I
| was in one of those indoor playground companies where you pay
| an entrance fee. I was climbing around with my three year old
| daughter when we ended up at the top of the structure. There
| was a big sign with lots of text that a three year old can't
| read. It said something about four meter vertical drop slide.
| There were no hard places where I had to help her up to get
| up to this point. Luckily I'm not a very trusting parent.
| This place was later shut down because of lots of safety
| issues. Their defence was that they are a Cafe, not a kids
| playground. Weird even for swedish standards.
| paganel wrote:
| Until recently we still had a concrete-made children slide [1]
| here in Romania, built in pure brutalist style back in the '60s.
| There was also one built in my home-town, and I guess in other
| towns throughout Eastern Europe.
|
| There's no way anything like that could ever get built again, and
| yet, we managed to don't kill ourselves as kids when we were
| sliding on them.
|
| [1] https://www.cotidianul.ro/wp-
| content/uploads/2017/10/19/tobo...
| wnevets wrote:
| Is anyone else like me and just sick & tired of the
| boomerification of the public discourse? There isn't anything
| _more wrong_ with kids these days compared to previous
| generations. Participation trophies didn 't matter, foam
| playgrounds didn't create "soft" kids. Its all non-sense.
|
| "What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their
| elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They
| riot in the streets, inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are
| decaying. What is to become of them?" - Plato
| DiggyJohnson wrote:
| Would you dismiss any evidence of generational changes in the
| way children are raised, in the aggregate?
|
| Or that changes in the way children are raised don't affect the
| child?
| wnevets wrote:
| I would love to see evidence that showed a measurable
| difference of an adult's behavior or personality based on the
| playground (or trophy policy) they grew up with.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| From what I know there's a fair bit of research linking
| improved motor skills and social skills with later academic
| performance. Here are some quotes from a review article[1]:
|
| _Research presented in this section indicates that
| removing play from early childhood classrooms may actually
| undermine intended achievement-oriented outcomes._
|
| _Play enhances attention, memory, self-regulation, and
| overall academic achievement throughout childhood. In
| short, physical play is necessary for learning._
|
| _Young children's motor development has been found to be a
| powerful predictor of cognitive abilities in the elementary
| years._
|
| A good playground will be exciting and thus promote
| spontaneous play, a creative process, and it will be
| challenging which help kids develop their motor skills.
|
| A bad playground will be dull and lack challenges, thus not
| making kids develop those skills in the same way.
|
| Thus it seems quite likely that the quality of the
| playgrounds available at their kindergarten, school and
| local area can have an effect into adulthood.
|
| [1]: https://www.easternct.edu/center-for-early-childhood-
| educati...
| wnevets wrote:
| > Research presented in this section indicates that
| removing play from early childhood classrooms may
| actually undermine intended achievement-oriented
| outcomes.
|
| That is absolutely not the same as having an overly safe
| or "soft" playgrounds.
| Fricken wrote:
| It's not a "kids these days" thing. It's a modernity thing. The
| first person to make a lot of noise about this was Georges
| Herbert, a French physical educator who is regarded as the
| inventor of the military obstacle course, and who was broadly
| influential in shaping physical education programs, largely
| throughout Europe and the eastern block in the 20th century.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_H%C3%A9bert
| themitigating wrote:
| Children don't know better and getting hurt isn't always the best
| way to learn because their could be permanent consequences
| leipert wrote:
| I don't know. Our kid frequents these playgrounds and it's
| interesting to see how the usage changes over time. The kid
| quite frequently signals when it thinks something is too high
| or a slide to steep or whatever. And most kids seem to be
| rather cautious.
| mpsprd wrote:
| A friend of mine, PhD in early childhood education, told me the
| contrary: Toddlers instinctively know their limits and will not
| "bite more than they can chew", at least with gross motor
| skills.
|
| My personal experience confirms this: for example, when
| teaching my young kid of 18mo to climb down stairs standing, I
| would stop holding his hands and observe his behavior. He would
| initially try to go down a step on his feet while holding the
| side rail, then hesitate and ask for my hand. If I told him to
| do it himself, he would instead sit down and slide down gently.
| Fricken wrote:
| There could be permanent consequences either way. Children of
| overprotective parents tend to live less:
|
| https://neurosciencenews.com/overprotective-parents-child-lo...
| realworldperson wrote:
| [dead]
| moron4hire wrote:
| We've had a couple of playgrounds like this near where I live
| here in Virginia for a number of years. They're not very old, but
| certainly older than 2021.
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _Germany is building risk into its playgrounds_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978056 - Oct 2021 (6
| comments)
| swimfar wrote:
| It doesn't look like they are building risk into the playgrounds,
| as much as they are building the feeling of risk. which isn't
| necessarily a bad thing. This seems like a compromise that should
| be seen as better, or at least acceptable to both extremes of
| parents.
|
| "The maximum fall height in the Triitopia structure's spiderweb
| is 1.8 metres." That's not a risky fall, if you're falling onto a
| rope net.
|
| Also, "The Triitopia tower is encased with boards and netting to
| ensure no child can take a tumble from a height above three
| metres." Kids used to climb on the outside and on top of tall
| playground structures like that. But they're making sure this
| much more difficult to attempt. This is not a criticism, just my
| observations.
| ip26 wrote:
| Risk is likelihood X consequence, and there is also the
| distinction of actual risk vs perceived risk. They are
| manipulating the four variables; control actual consequence,
| maximize perceived consequence, maximize perceived likelihood,
| and moderate actual likelihood.
|
| Both are types of risk IMO, and as children come to recognize
| the actual risk through experience they will come to
| recalibrate their perceived risk. Ideally this makes them
| better at perceiving risk in the future.
| fsckboy wrote:
| i wonder if it will be discovered as fun to "base-jump" into
| the net
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Not really, as you will notice and learn that the ropes are
| damn stiff and have metal ties to form the grid.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| In the US, my experience with this style of rope structure
| is that the ropes are actually steep cables encases in
| fiber or nylon rope sheathing. There is no stretch, so
| landings are immediate (unlike falling onto an actual rope
| net).
| schoen wrote:
| I think I've seen that too; why are they made this way?
| Durability? Supporting more people's weight at once?
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Same shit as some commercial residential developments
| here in Germany have: wrong metrics.
|
| Like, when the builders' metric is "must last for 20
| years at minimal maintenance effort and legal risk", you
| get radically different results (barely fulfilling the
| legal definition of playground, no one uses it) than if
| the metric is "out of the X potential users in the 200m
| surrounding the playground, Y% use it frequently". The
| latter costs more money in construction and upkeep.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I was told that the cables reduce the potential for
| stretch over time, and this is important to maintain
| safety tolerances ("space x cannot exceed size y because
| otherwise a child can...")
| wanderingstan wrote:
| However they say that some broken bones are acceptable, which
| are more than just a "feeling of risk".
| dan-robertson wrote:
| I wouldn't want to fall 1.8m and land awkwardly, even if it
| might not permanently injure me.
| tomaskafka wrote:
| Prague here, happy to have this:
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/eEcKTe5rfNxr7he77
|
| Was I scared a bit climbing this with my kids? Yes. Was it an
| awesome day? Hell, yeah, and returning there soon!
| yazzku wrote:
| Considering our species used to send children into dark caves as
| a rite of passage and the way things are now, this is probably
| for the best.
|
| "Parents can try to keep up with their young mountaineers as they
| ascend through the rope spiderweb, but they might get left behind
| in the tightly woven mesh."
|
| Like Instagram and TikTok, but with real safety guarantees.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| > Considering our species used to send children into dark caves
| as a rite of passage
|
| Is this a reference to Victorians sending kids into coal mines
| to die of back lung, or something else? As a bonus, the tunnels
| didn't need to be so large.
| globalise83 wrote:
| All well and good, but the children in our local playground in
| Germany climb the nearby trees overlooking the risk-engineered
| playground, reaching heights of around 5 metres while standing on
| branches less than 1cm thick!
| gammarator wrote:
| I saw some of this German company's equipment in Memphis,
| Tennessee--very cool, and quite different from most U.S.
| playgrounds: https://www.richter-spielgeraete.de/en/playground-
| equipment/...
| qwertox wrote:
| Crazy, this is one of their main playgrounds they are
| responsible for:
|
| https://www.garten-landschaft.de/guenter-beltzig-nachruf/
|
| The page is an obituary because the designer died in December.
|
| The video is in English.
| lynx23 wrote:
| It is hard to explain, but this headline makes me sad, very sad.
|
| Not because german children are supposedly put at risk, not at
| all...
|
| It is the tone of finger pointing. Risk is what eventually makes
| us grow.
|
| A totally risk free world/life would be utterly worthless living,
| and perhaps a reason to attempt suicide.
| nonethewiser wrote:
| Good point. Makes me think of the complete lack of suicide in
| more primitive cultures.
| WJW wrote:
| That's simply untrue. Suicide among the Greeks and Romans was
| at least prevalent enough to have laws written about it (see
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_suicide) and suicide
| among samurai was also certainly non-zero.
|
| If those examples are not "primitive" enough, already in 1894
| Steinmetz collated an extensive list of at least forty-two
| documented cases of suicide amongst what he terms "savage
| peoples" like the "Polar peoples, North American Indians,
| Bedouins, Polynesians and native races of British India".
| Many of the terms he uses would be frowned upon today, but
| the article is available for free at
| https://www.jstor.org/stable/658295 and clearly documents
| many cases of suicide even in societies untouched by Western
| ideas. It's quite the list, from women killing themselves for
| "unrequited love" to adulterers committing suicide out of
| fear of repercussions. In fact he concludes that suicide may
| even be _more_ prevalent in primitive cultures, relative to
| the size of the population, because some of those societies
| did not seem to have a stigma or taboo against suicide
| (unlike western civilizations where it is /was a sin).
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