[HN Gopher] Iceland long term visa for remote workers ___________________________________________________________________ Iceland long term visa for remote workers Author : simonebrunozzi Score : 155 points Date : 2023-03-28 15:32 UTC (7 hours ago) (HTM) web link (island.is) (TXT) w3m dump (island.is) | diego_moita wrote: | Iceland? Ouch! | | People are lovely and awesome but the place is barren, cold, | windy and desolated. | | I'd take a lot of places in southern Europe, instead. | connectsnk wrote: | I am afraid I will get downvoted for this heavily. But in my | experience Iceland (just like its name) is a desert with no | vegetation and consequently has minimum biodiversity. | | No matter what is the carrot being hung, I would not wish to be | in this land. | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_f90pXw5sQ | seanhunter wrote: | I could not disagree more. I absolutely love Iceland and would | love to return. I cannot recommend it strongly enough. My | experience was beautiful scenery (with plenty of vegetation), | stunning glaciers and hot springs etc, and very friendly and | welcoming people. | atoav wrote: | But very high beer prices. | darknavi wrote: | I think it's really just a matter of opinion. | | Would I like to live there forever? No way. Would I work | remotely there for 3-6 months to explore a unique,bio diverse | island? Hell yea! | Reubachi wrote: | As OP said, iceland is about as un biodiverse as it gets. | I've been a few times and it's as close to the moon as | possible. That said it is beautiful and kind of feels | like....you're on a giant desert island surrounded by | mountains that's very cold, and very expensive. | sidewndr46 wrote: | My secondhand understanding of Iceland is that the entire | island is grazed by herds of domesticated animals. It's | like a small, cold, remote version of Texas. | throwaway1777 wrote: | Well not quite, Antarctica is a bit closer. | paul7986 wrote: | Have you visited it's such a cool/unique place and it's really | not crazy cold there (20 to 45 F in the winter on average). The | wind is intense, but the cold is not like something like | Fairbanks, Alaska. | | Things I love about Iceland compared to the US | | - Almost zero crime | | - Police, I only saw three cars in nine days | | - No one can carry a gun | | - All citizens (free healthcare) well paid compared to US | | - Hot water from a faucet comes directly from the ground | | - Geothermal govt run bathhouses in each neighborhood for after | work socializing. | | - Hike to an active volcano or to a hot river to bathe in | | - Beautiful outdoor scenery | | - The Northern Lights | | One negative is it's expensive i.e. a large pizza from a | pizzeria here in the states will run you $12 to $15 while there | it's $21 to $25. | runarberg wrote: | Note that it is not this rosie in reality. Iceland has issues | like any other places: | | - There are still crimes, particularly against women during | the nightlife which isn't investigated and reported in crime | statistics. | | - Police just acquired permission from the minister of | justice to carry stun guns. There are recent cases of racial | profiling which are particularly worrysom | | - Gun laws are increasingly un-enforced and gun crimes are on | the rise. Iceland has one of the largest per capita gun | ownership in Europe. | | - The healthcare system is increasingly underfunded, wait | lists for healthcare are getting longer. A recent immigration | bill denies health care to asylum seekers. | | - Hot water is a plenty so this is mostly true. | | - The swimming pools are amazing places to socialize and | still relatively cheap... So this is also true | | - The volcano has stopped erupting, this last one was indeed | very approachable. More likely volcanoes form way in the | highlands and are not approachable unless you can charter a | plain or a helicopter. | | - The outdoor scenery is relative. I much more favor the | trees in the pacific north west where I live now over the | mossy lava-fields where I grew up. | | - The northern lights are cool but light pollution is a | problem in and around the city or any town and village. | paul7986 wrote: | Compared to the US there is barely is any crime! | | There are no school shootings yet here there's almost one a | day it seems. | | Seemed as safe as Norway where moms leave their babies out | in their carriages bundled up for fresh air while they go | into their house to clean. A mom who did that here would be | possibly arrested | | So Iceland is paradise if you are a tired of seeing all the | crime in America. I didn't know it was that bad here til my | dates (locals) I met and talked with at one of the | neighborhood family bathhouses pointed it out. How scared | they are of going to the US. Which I replied it's not that | bad not everyone has a gun yet once I was home I had a | crazy gunman who shot police hiding in the woods of my | backyard and we were told to shelter in place. Sure that's | not happening in Iceland cause even and only police only | have stun guns! | haliskerbas wrote: | where in the states? In LA, NY or SF, the Iceland price seems | pretty on par for a large pizza | paul7986 wrote: | Baltimore city and surrounding counties. | | Iceland is one the more expensive European cities for food | at least. | micromacrofoot wrote: | Do you normally decide where to travel based on the | destinations biodiversity? | Quarrelsome wrote: | > But in my experience Iceland (just like its name) is a desert | with no vegetation and consequently has minimum biodiversity. | | Yes, although don't let the bus out from Keflavik fool you, the | south west tip of the island is lava flats and it does look a | bit like the moon. The rest of the country is a lot more | interesting than that. | | However you _never_ go to Iceland for the biodiversity, same | way you don't go to Bangladesh for the diarrhoea. You go for | the pristine wilderness, the ice and glaciers, the volcanism, | the aurora borealis, the perma-day in the summer, the people | (they're amazing!), the partying, the new year celebration | (most households fire a firework at 00:00) or the language | which is as close to ancient norse as you can get. | | Also what is unique to Iceland is its size and culture, it is | very Anglosphere, and a curious blend of European and American | in culture (due to the legacy of the US base) Reykjavik has | elements of both city and village life in a single spot and its | an interesting test bed for services or products as a | consequence. | BigCryo wrote: | Iceland is too expensive I would imagine.. go Latin America or | Southeast Asia, problem is that it's hard to get to stay there | long-term unless you go through the bureaucracy.. some expats | have speculated for years that America uses its influence | overseas to prevent Americans from moving overseas permanently to | cheap Nations like the third world | IntelMiner wrote: | Reminded me of an ancient King of the Hill joke | | "Hank and I used to go to Mexico every time they devalued the | peso!" | | "Yeah, that got old fast..." | mrleinad wrote: | I'm curious. What prevents an American from living in Argentina | long term? I believe the country is quite friendly in terms of | long term visitors. Have you done some research on that? | Aachen wrote: | That they don't like you to get a salary in USD and the Peso | has crazy inflation, would be one consideration. But then | I've heard Buenos Aires can be quite like any rich country | city (probably for most people here: normal city) and life's | definitely a lot cheaper there so it might be worth it | BigCryo wrote: | The speculation says that America uses its power to coerce | cheap Nations to throw up bureaucratic obstacles and | restrictions that prevent Americans from moving overseas | easily.. America protects this financial capital for moving | overseas but it also protects social capital for moving | overseas by keeping Americans here and stopping them from | taking their savings and moving to cheap countries and | therefore robbing America of social capital... Let me be | specific.. it would financially benefit third world countries | to allow Americans with money to move in easily and without | restrictions without Visa time limits and so forth.. and when | I say any American with money I mean any person who's had a | job and worked and saved the money from the job... I'm not | talking about rich people ... | | the idea is that America uses its power against the third | world Nations to coerce them to throw up restrictions to | moving easily overseas | kylehotchkiss wrote: | No, the "bureaucratic obstacles" are often what people | living with these countries deal with on a normal basis. | The only thing you're adding to that is being on a visa | instead of a citizenship. | | Don't forget many third world countries are former colonies | of western countries and don't necessarily want large | amounts of westerns residing there again. | | > it would financially benefit third world countries to | allow Americans with money to move in easily and without | restrictions without Visa time limits and so fort | | It financially benefits third world countries when | Americans with money _try_ to move in. Via bribery etc. | Also many of these countries have high end hotels where | they can get the same money from somebody who stays a week | or two and leaves and never makes a fuss about local | issues! | | You should see what "bureaucratic obstacles" exist for | people in third world countries that want to visit USA. The | US tourist visa has no publically-known requirements beyond | "shows intent to return home after trip". This is quite | arbitrary and the visa officers at embassies abroad are | given the final say in visa issuance. (To be fair, if there | were bank balance requirements, people would both photoshop | their statements and ask for friends/family to borrow the | amount to pad their account before their visa interview). | If you are rejected, they only tell you to "try again | later" without ever telling you the reason of rejection. | People who can afford to visit relatives and intend on | returning at the end of their trip will have their visa | applications denied on a regular basis. There's just so | many applicants to be more through. | jrmg wrote: | The USA does this in secret? That does not seem plausible. | Think of the coordination required. | carlosjobim wrote: | It makes much sense, considering that European emigrants to | America were the force that conquered Europe during WWII. | Maybe the American government doesn't want that to happen | to them. | yourapostasy wrote: | If that was true, wouldn't countries that are hostile | towards the US like North Korea, Iran, Russia, Cuba, _etc._ | be enacting visa regimes to undermine the US? | | Having dealt with various nations' bureaucracies, I'm more | inclined to believe most simply haven't been convinced it | is worth their administrative overhead trouble to capture | the financial benefits of welcoming digital nomads for | longer stays. They're quite well aware digital nomads exist | and many desire longer stays. It is still considered a | pretty niche population compared to regular tourism and | likely not worth catering to yet. With RTO spreading, it | likely will remain so until WFM becomes more mainstream in | the future. | slaw wrote: | Latin America and Southeast Asia are opposite in terms for long | term stay. You can stay easily up to 180 days in Latin America, | not to in SE Asia. | beardedman wrote: | ...long term visa for high earning remote workers... | FpUser wrote: | >"it is not your intention to settle in Iceland" | | I assume one can be working remotely and at the same time | applying for permanent residence. What is the problem with that? | meheleventyone wrote: | You'd need a different visa presumably. | mataug wrote: | Having visited Iceland previously, I'd love to work there over | the summer. | | > you can show a foreign income of ISK 1,000,000 per month or ISK | 1,300,000 if you also apply for a spouse or cohabiting partner. | | > you do not need a visa to enter the Schengen area | | Unfortunately this ^ disqualifies me, despite meeting the income | requirements, since I need a visa to enter the Schengen region. | This seems to be an odd requirement, they are already issuing a | visa, why require people to have powerful passports as well ? | anon98356 wrote: | Because Iceland is a member of the Schengen zone. It's possible | to travel between countries in the Schengen area without going | through border control (although I don't know about the | specifics of travelling to/from Iceland). | itslennysfault wrote: | I traveled from US to Iceland to France without knowing this | and honestly thought I somehow bypassed customs when I got to | France. So, this is correct you can go from Iceland to other | Schengen zone countries without any checks (I didn't show my | passport or do customs at all) | mataug wrote: | That was part of my earlier point, they are already issuing a | visa, and a visa to Iceland is a Schengen Visa. This seems to | imply that they only want nationals from certain countries. | | Contrast this with Spain's digital nomad program, where they | don't require someone to have a powerful passport, all they | seem to care about is having a job outside spain. | | https://prie.comercio.gob.es/en- | us/paginas/teletrabajadores-... | jck wrote: | This is essentially just a way for people from the Americas to | legally work from Iceland for a few months. | unsupp0rted wrote: | Or Australians... or Malaysians... or Japanese... | iso1631 wrote: | Or Brits, presumably just the 75% that did not vote to | reduce their right to live and work in dozens of countries | throwaway049 wrote: | Iceland is not in the EU either. | iso1631 wrote: | Iceland is in the EEA meaning EU citizens can work there | without a permit for upto 3 months | [deleted] | ilrwbwrkhv wrote: | No third world countries. | [deleted] | scottyah wrote: | Iceland is expensive, it would be very unkind to let someone | live there for an extended time yet not be able to enjoy a | good quality of life. | ecedeno wrote: | They already have an income requirement. How does this | contribute to better enjoying a good quality of life? | Aachen wrote: | Also discussed in this subthread | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35344437. My take | (having been there two weeks and done all the tours and | seen all the things) is that you'd need (less than?) half | of that income requirement for a normal comfort level that | I also have in my home country (currently Germany). | | It's not a cheap country but 7k/month as "minimum income" | is not a requirement out of necessity or kindness. | rauljordan2020 wrote: | I'm from Honduras and don't need a Schengen visa. Many other | poor countries can also get in without one | narag wrote: | Probably the reason is more political and cultural than | economic. | | FWIW, the origin of "third world" is political, being the | NATO and the Warsaw Pact countries the first and second. | The poverty implication came later. | | Is a visa needed to enter Spain from any Spanish-speaking | country? (Spain is in Schengen) | cromulent wrote: | Yeah, Finland and Switzerland are 3rd world countries, in | the Schengen, but not developing countries. | jersak wrote: | Guess I'm the exception to this rule, then. Although I don't | live in my home country anymore, my third world country | passport is allowed. | sabellito wrote: | You are misinformed, the list is mixed: | | https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/who-needs-schengen-visa/ | [deleted] | vegardx wrote: | I think it's because Iceland can't issue long-term visas due to | the Schengen-agreement, only short term tourist visa or full | residency. | | Contrary to popular belief, at least within the Schengen-area, | it's hard to immigrate into the Schengen-area from the outside. | [deleted] | realworldperson wrote: | [dead] | yohannparis wrote: | that's CAD 10k per month, not pocket changes indeed. | r00f wrote: | I have always been blown away by money requirements for such | visas, in many countries. Show monthly income of 1000000 ISK. | Over 7k USD. Why? | | I used to live in Dubai, which is considered pretty expensive | place, and never spent over 2500 per month, despite dining out | almost all the time. Maybe 3000 if I needed some purchases like | clothing or hobbies stuff. I get it, Numbeo says Iceland is 13% | more expensive, but 7k? What exactly kind of lifestyle are they | expecting from humble nomad? | | Not all nomads work remotely for FAANG. Some live happy nomad | life with much lower income. | sidewndr46 wrote: | Why would a tiny exclusive island ever want anyone other than | high income individuals to move there? | | If it weren't the fact that US cities cannot restrict the free | migration of individuals, almost all of them would ban anyone | moving there who didn't make above the average income for the | area. Hawaii's last Republic governor tried every possible step | to kick out the Marshallese, which is fucking hilarious | considering how few of them there are globally. | | If it wasn't for the US constitution you'd have giant slums in | the interstitial space between cities, with a few zones | stylized after the Jewish Autonomous Oblast here and there as | well. | starik36 wrote: | > Over 7k USD. | | I don't think you understand how ridiculously expensive Iceland | is. Practically everything has to be shipped/flown in. | | Just to give you an idea, a small completely unremarkable | burger at a fast food place will be around $20-25. It will not | make you full. | | 7K a month is realistic. Our vacation was still fantastic | despite the cost. | Aachen wrote: | That's realistic if you are there as a tourist who wants the | premium experience on everything. | | Staying in hotels and eating out daily, we didn't spend 7k | when extrapolating our two weeks to a month. Heck, it's still | below 7k if you include all one-time purchases like the way | there and back, clothing, new expensive hiking boots, etc. | I've got a problem with most waterproof fabrics so I didn't | have a raincoat, but reading about Iceland, I figured it's | worth finding one that works for me, so that's another | purchase I count towards my Iceland expenses. All in all | still below 7k after extrapolation. (Edit: oh and I forgot | that this is for 2 persons. You can't divide by two of | course, but some correction factor should be applied.) | | I fully agree with anyone saying Iceland is expensive, but if | you stay in an actual apartment instead of hotels, don't do a | number of guided tours every month, don't rent a vehicle for | the whole time you're there (and drive around, though fuel | was a surprisingly small part of the final expenses), you'll | definitely not need 7k per month. | lazyasciiart wrote: | They have absolutely no interest in sponsoring visitors. | This visa program is intended to bring in well-off | professionals who will have plenty of cash to live a | comfortable lifestyle and cover a disastrous broken leg or | two and still be able to fly back home if they lose their | job. That $7k is before taxes, before retirement savings, | before health insurance, before your assumed flight home | once every month or two... | seanhunter wrote: | > Show monthly income of 1000000 ISK. Over 7k USD. Why? | | I'm not familiar with the reasoning for Iceland specifically | but in another country (Switzerland) I was in the position of | having to apply for long-term work visas for myself and some of | my employees. There they justified the high income requirement | because they wanted to know you weren't going to bring in cheap | foreign labour and thereby undercut local wages. So you had to | show that the wages were high in absolute terms and that you | weren't paying less than the national average. | dagurp wrote: | Expect to spend a third of that on rent | Pmop wrote: | Isn't Iceland inhabited by like 340k people? Maybe they're | testing the waters or trying to limit how many people end up | moving there. | | Overall I agree. DNs would use Portugal's D7 to move in (in an | exception of what the visa was originally intended to), but | then Portugal introduced a DN visa which now requires a much | higher income than what D7 requires, I think 4x times more than | D7. | MrDresden wrote: | Iceland is in Schengen. Effectively the whole of Europe could | move here tomorrow if they wanted. This is not due to | immigration control. | foldr wrote: | It's in the EEA, more to the point. | [deleted] | EduardoBautista wrote: | D7 was minimum wage, if I recall correctly, around 800 euros | per month. I don't think 4x minimum wage is at all | unreasonable if it makes the process smoother, since they | make the D7 application process as horrible as possible. | | I had an awful experience applying for D7, so I am now | happily living in Dubai instead which has the best residency | process I have seen for ANY country. | triceratops wrote: | They want rich nomads who will spend lots of money in the local | economy. | slaw wrote: | Only high earners are welcomed. | ashconnor wrote: | Your FAANG job probably wouldn't allow you to work from Iceland | anyway. | | Still the requirements are less strict than Thailand's remote | work visa [0] but that lasts for 5 years renewable for another | 5. | | In Thailand's case the existence of a work-from-Thailand visa | also clarifies that working remotely on other visas (Tourist, | Non-O, Non-B) is not permitted. | | [0] - https://kpmg.com/th/en/home/insights/2022/11/legal-news- | flas... | zerr wrote: | Seems like a lawful way to say "North Americans Only". | noodlesUK wrote: | Basically because you already need to have visa free entry to | Schengen (and if you're an EEA/CH citizen you can already | move there) this is only available to North Americans, | Aussies/Kiwis, and other rich countries like Japan, as well | as us Brits mourning our FOM. | whichfawkes wrote: | Well, of course they're going to set the requirement high | enough that they can be confident you'll survive without them | needing to pay to deport you. | | Beyond that though, they want you to spend your money in | Iceland - why else? | | Presumably you aren't paying any income tax. So the only | advantage to letting you into the country is that you'll spend | money on goods and services. | mytailorisrich wrote: | They want to attract high value individuals because they are | doing this to benefit their country and economy while limiting | number of people, not to make foreigners happy. | MrDresden wrote: | Local tech worker in Iceland, and this is the going rate for a | midrange software worker. | | Wages here have grown ~25% (for the whole country) over the | last ~4 years (if my memory from the reporting on this is | correct). | | Everything has to be imported, and what little that isn't is | heavily reliant on imported goods. | | Living here is mightily expensive. | | Ofcourse you could live more frugally, and obviously most here | do. Tech workers here are in the top income bracket like in | most other places. | | Not sure why digital nomad visas should have lower restrictions | though. We want foreigners that come here and spend their | money. No need to make it easier for the frugal tourist to come | here for longer. | xwdv wrote: | We shipped our 4x4 to Iceland and went off roading for several | months while working remotely. Truly an incredible lifetime | experience that I would recommend to anyone if they love nature. | Unfortunately I have never really been able to see the beauty of | my urban surroundings again ever since spending all that time in | Iceland. | runarberg wrote: | Please don't do that. | | Icelandic flora is very vulnerable and driving off roads will | cause sever damage that will last for decades. It is highly | illegal to drive off roads except for glaciers and beaches. In | fact there is a huge social stigma against off road driving. | Tourists that get caught regularly get ridiculed on national | television, and rightly so. | biftek wrote: | I assumed he meant driving on the F roads | xwdv wrote: | We're not "tourists", we're expeditionists, and Iceland has | incredible off-road trails to see. Ridiculous. | runarberg wrote: | * * * | bmelton wrote: | Took a vacation to Iceland for this past new year's, and am | thrilled to hear any news that might allow me to stay there for | longer. When I left Iceland, it felt very much like I was leaving | a fairy tale. | | I was delighted by the whales off the coast, and the northern | lights felt like a spiritual event, but (at least according to | lore) the Vikings invented the modern new year celebration by | considering it a good enough time for everyone to dispose of | their old flares and replace them with new, and so new year's in | Iceland was better than the greatest fireworks show I'd ever | witnessed, despite exactly 0% of the fireworks having been | municipally provided. It felt like every member of every home had | spent their life savings on fireworks and were setting them all | off for hours. Impossible to describe, but here's some drone | footage (not mine) that captures about 10 minutes of what went on | for hours, and the experience from the city center on the ground | was even more encompassing. | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAnQ7ECC2LA&t=245s | exar0815 wrote: | Been on Iceland on NY21/22 as well, NYE from the Perlan was | absolutely mindnumbing. Vik was absolutely beautiful. Polar | Lights left me completely speechless. | | Most beautiful country in the world. Even though the winter was | harsh. Perfect if you love photography, the whole day Golden | Hour basically. | mixmastamyk wrote: | What is the temp on a winter night? I once spent NYE in NYC and | froze my butt off... much preferred my time in Rio DJ. :-D | Would love to try Iceland in the summer. | bmelton wrote: | Depends on the night, obviously, but "very cold" is a safe | assertion. | | The first day there I had a hard time, thinking that my | casual cold-weather gear would keep me comfortable was a | mistake I learned the hard way tracking the northern lights | on a mountaintop at 2 in the morning on the coldest night | they'd had in 50 years. | | But, the next day I picked up a pair of (expensive) | sweatpants to act as a third layer, and I was just fine. | Toasty enough that at night times I'd casually take off a hat | or some gloves. | | If you absolutely hate cold weather, maybe check it out in | summer time. If you're willing to layer (and not just throw | on dumb layers like I did) then it's totally manageable. | | I found the magic combo to be: * Thermalsilk | top and bottom base layer * An intermediate layer for | very cold nights (https://www.icewear.is/us/fodurland-wool- | underwear-baselayer) * I got away with those two and a | pair of Amazon Basics chinos, but a hard shell outer layer is | probably smarter if you're trekking through snow | | Otherwise, normal layering rules apply. Have a scarf and | gloves (ideally, with liners) and a good hat, then | Thermalsilk and a winter coat were all I needed, but I would | often have a niceish sweatshirt layered in there as we often | had dinner plans and I didn't want to violate any dress-code | norms. | ghaff wrote: | Pretty similar to NYC in winter (because Gulf Stream). But | then, I don't consider NYC especially cold for the most part; | it's basically mid-Atlantic relative to New England much less | northern Midwest. | mixmastamyk wrote: | Was a bit colder than normal now that I think of it. Big | jacket wasn't enough because the legs got cold without long | undies. | danudey wrote: | Iceland was absolutely fantastic. Iceland Air started doing | direct flights from Vancouver and my wife and I got on the | inaugural flight, despite her being several uncomfortable | months pregnant. | | Some highlights: | | * We saw geysir, the first geyser known to modern Europeans and | the source of the name "geyser" [0] | | * We went inside of a volcano [1] | | * We did _not_ get fooled by Icelandic polar bears [2] | | * We (well, I) ate an average of two hot dogs per day [3] | | * We saw a viking home which they unearthed during construction | and then built a museum around [4] | | * We boiled ourselves like happy lobsters [5] | | * We had te og kaffi, which smelled and tasted like the best | cafe I'd been to in years [6] | | We went in April and were really glad we'd bought sleeping | masks for the flight as the midnight sun did throw us for a | loop. We were walking down the street one day wondering why all | the stores were closed already, then saw a group of young women | in glittery dresses and platform heels walking down the street. | Checked my phone and it was 11 PM on a Saturday. Oh, okay, | clubbing. Right, it's bedtime. Okay. | | When we got back from Iceland, my wife was starting a new | position at her company where she had to show up at 6:30 AM, so | we ended up keeping the same sleep schedule and getting up at | 3:30 every morning to have breakfast and commute together. | Working in tech meant I had about six hours alone in the office | before anyone else really showed up, which was quite peaceful. | | Highly recommend Iceland, even if you don't go for New Year's! | | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geysir | | [1] https://insidethevolcano.com/ | | [2] https://fooledbyiceland.tumblr.com/ | | [3] https://theculturetrip.com/europe/iceland/articles/how- | this-... | | [4] https://reykjavikcitymuseum.is/the-settlement- | exhibition/exh... | | [5] https://www.bluelagoon.com/ | | [6] https://goo.gl/maps/QCDLW6DPyLSeKumF9 | amatecha wrote: | Nice, glad to hear you went to Iceland as well! I went in | 2020, not sure when the YVR<->KEF direct flights started | though! We just snuck in before COVID got crazy, and in fact | our flight home got canceled the night before we were due to | leave -- ended up getting booked a replacement flight through | LHR though it required a bunch of stressful calls to Iceland | Air.. that was an interesting finale to the trip. On the | upside, all tourist attractions were basically empty and we | had an even more "isolated" and otherworldly experience than | planned! A+++ would visit Iceland at the start of a pandemic | again :) | bmelton wrote: | I did not go inside of a volcano, but did climb a glacier. | Otherwise, while I thought the hot dogs were pretty neat, the | wife didn't care for them, so we stuck to the one and then | engaged in more of their fine dining options. | | Dill and Ox were phenomenal. One of them has a Michelin star, | but I can't remember which. Kol was also pretty great. | Otherwise, it was great snacking on stupid gift-shop snacks | like smoked salmon and capers as a dramatic contrast to the | typical American gift shop snacks of corn chips. | | The settlement exhibition we saw as part of a walking tour, | and absolutely adored, but somewhat overshadowed by the | "Bureaucrat" statue across the street from it[1]. | | Didn't have te og kaffi, but did enjoy Skyr (which is a | cheese that you can DRINK). | | On the whole, I enjoyed it more than I could have thought | possible. You mentioned Iceland Air, and one thing I thought | was really smart was that they've positioned themselves as a | destination layover going from North America to Europe. We | usually travel to Europe for vacations, but this time we | "punted" and chose Iceland as our preferred accommodations in | London were unavailable, and now I am keen to make a | tradition of stopping over in Iceland everywhere I can. | | [1] https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/monument-to-the- | unknown-... | jersak wrote: | I was sold when you said "direct flights from Vancouver". One | of the biggest pain points for me is having to get connecting | flights in the east coast for most destinations we plan to go | to. | melenaboija wrote: | Spain also provides a nomad visa: | | - Digital nomads (Official) [1] | | - 'Digital nomads' can now live in Spain with their families -- | if they earn enough [2] | | [1] https://prie.comercio.gob.es/en- | us/paginas/teletrabajadores-... | | [2] https://www.immigrationspain.es/en/visa-for-digital-nomads/ | outworlder wrote: | Portugal too. | lr4444lr wrote: | What's the incentive here? A rotating cast of high income earners | paying state and local taxes without the benefit the pension | system(s)? The country has about 1.73 births per woman with a | barely positive net migration. Maybe they should think about | getting interested people on a citizenship path. | carlosjobim wrote: | Those people would not be Icelandic. The purpose of a nation is | to serve their people, not to replace them with other people. | [deleted] | ericmay wrote: | > Maybe they should think about getting interested people on a | citizenship path | | One thing you'll find out is that the EU member states (along | with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are really not very | friendly or welcoming in terms of "path to citizenship". | | One thing I'd like to see actually is open immigration and | potentially _more_ free trade between the US, Canada, | Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. I 'd add Ireland but I | think EU status would be a problem. | robocat wrote: | > along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) are really | not very friendly or welcoming in terms of "path to | citizenship". | | About 30% of New Zealand and Australia's populations are | immigrants. I don't think we could let many more in! As a | comparison, the US is about 15% population of immigrants - | and look at the stink over there about there being too many! | The places with more immigrants than NZ/Oz by percentage are | mostly either small island populations, or Arab states (where | you are not actually an immigrant, since you don't have | citizenship rights, and slave labour conditions are rife). | | One resulting issue is that some major parts of the NZ/Oz | housing markets are already some of the most unaffordable in | the world (think San Franscisco, but earning less so even | less affordable)! The five most expensive cities in the world | by unaffordability are Hong Kong, Vancouver, Sydney, | Auckland, Toronto : e.g. Sydney: average monthly income of | $6,100 with median house price of $1.4 million. Auckland | median house price is $1.1 million, whereas the average | individual monthly income is $4,269. We have the land, we | just need to build a lot of houses to keep up. | ygjb wrote: | I don't know about other countries, but immigration targets | in Canada are trending towards attracting 500,000 immigrants | per year by 2025. Just because we have alot of openings | doesn't mean it's easy though... there are several paths, and | most of them are designed to favour folks who will integrate | well socially and economically (and that doesn't just mean | rich white folks, it means more along the lines of skilled | labour and the means to sustain your family while they get | settled). | umanwizard wrote: | It is way easier to get a work visa (and later citizenship) | in any of the countries you named than it is in the US. | rocket_surgeron wrote: | >A rotating cast of high income earners paying state and local | taxes without the benefit the pension system(s)? | | Did you expect something different? | | That's literally the goal of every "DiGiTaLnOmAd" (you're a | migrant worker, dickhead) visa scheme everywhere in the world. | They want short-term renters eating out every night and racking | up airport fees. | | edit: unless you're super-wealthy in which case "Velkominn, | Willkommen, iratsushiyaimase, Bem-vindo, Huan Ying , Bienvenu, | Tere tulemast, etc...." | meheleventyone wrote: | Iceland has a steady population growth due to immigration | already. That said there has been talk in the last month or so | of changing up the visa situation to make it easier to recruit | tech workers outside of the EEA: | | https://northstack.is/2023/03/13/the-icelandic-government-in... | RomanPushkin wrote: | I don't know why these countries do everything to _not_ attract | human capital - limitation of 180 days means no-go for me. Maybe | I would love to explore a new country for a couple of years, and | settle down there with my salary component of ~200k instead of | SFBA. But I need my kids to stay at least 1 year in their | schools, and 2 years if they like it. And the way to become a | resident. | | It's so easy for them just to attract high-skilled labor everyone | is fighting for. But nope, they pretty much say: "We know you're | skilled because we have requirement of 90k/year, but we don't | want skilled workers to be able to stay here, because go | somewhere else". Well, ok, Iceland.. | Algemarin wrote: | > But nope, they pretty much say: "We know you're skilled | because we have requirement of 90k/year, but we don't want | skilled workers to be able to stay here, because go somewhere | else". Well, ok, Iceland.. | | Correct. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, especially as | they are being very overt about it. They don't want foreigners | settling into their country. They want foreigners coming in for | a short time, pumping money into it, then buggering off. | dejawu wrote: | While this seems awesome (and I do hope to make use of it) I do | find it a little funny that an application for a visa for remote | work must be submitted by snail mail. | xenospn wrote: | Yeah, I was surprised by that. Wouldn't that make processing | incredibly inefficient? | version_five wrote: | I see these visas and I understand there are some circumstances | where maybe you have to get one (employer letting you work | remote, maybe certain kinds of rental housing) but honestly I | don't understand why they have any requirements, and opposed to | just asking an otherwise admissible person to declare they're | there for work. Like others, I can already go for 90 days if I | want for tourism, just with my passport. I don't have to prove | income or insurance or submit a photo. What real risk are they | taking by just letting my say I'm coming for 6 months to work | remotely? All the "remote" visas I've seen are similar, and it | all just seems like some silly think bureaucrats dreamed up | because they can't let go of control, that really is pointless. | Algemarin wrote: | It's very straightforward: they don't want poor or middle-class | foreigners in their country. They want rich people. So that the | rich people can live in expensive housing, eat at expensive | restaurants, and pump their riches into Iceland's economy. | | This is why the minimum barrier to entry into this program is | having an income of ISK 1,000,000 per month, which means that | you need a salary of over EUR80 000. | | Additionally, they also don't want foreigners to actually | settle in their country, which is why there is a 180-day | ceiling. The purpose of this program is to have rich foreigners | come for a spell, spend lots of money, then go away. They're | being very transparent about this. | chroma wrote: | $80k/year is rich? That's less than the median household | income in a half-dozen states. 18% of Americans make over | $100k/year. | Algemarin wrote: | > $80k/year is rich? | | Yes. | | > That's less than the median household income in a half- | dozen states. | | That's nice. Can you guess how many states there are in the | world? | | The fact that you're using the claim that a minority | percentage in a single country makes a large amount of | money as an argument for the claim that an 80.000 salary is | not rich, is a stereotypically American myopic outlook at | the world. | dragonwriter wrote: | > $80k/year is rich? That's less than the median household | income in a half-dozen states. | | (1) EUR 80,000 > USD 80,000 (about USD 86,700) | | (2) We're discussing _individual wages_ not _household | income_ of households where the average is >1 wage-earner. | | (3) The highest US state median wage is a little over USD | 80k, and less than EUR 80k. | | (4) The US is a rich country, so, yes, median wage earners | in the US _as a whole_ (much less the median wage earner of | the state scoring highest on that metric) are rich by any | non-US-specific standard. | ChuckNorris89 wrote: | _> $80k/year is rich?_ | | Yes, 80 thousand Euros per year wages is rich by most EU | standards. | | _> 18% of Americans make over $100k/year._ | | Wow, America, the richest country in the world, has many | rich people. The more you learn. | howinteresting wrote: | The US is a very, very rich country. That's why so many | people want to move to it. | MrDresden wrote: | Iceland is in Schengen, so foreigners living in a country | which is also a member have the ability to move to Iceland | and settle here. So foreigners are welcome here. So much so | that 14% of all residents are foreign and that does obviously | not count those who have received citizenship. | throwaway049 wrote: | Limits on numbers. Welcoming you as a tourist and welcoming you | indefinitely are not the same thing. It's not a big population | so wouldn't take a very large number of arrivals to impact | public services like healthcare and schools. | mrleinad wrote: | Which in order to grow, you'd need more people. And they're | not canadians, they don't have an easy immigration path for | people that want to move in. | | In a way, they're pretty japanese. | throwaway049 wrote: | Iceland population is about 0.3M. perhaps they're happy | with that? | version_five wrote: | Why would they want to grow their population? | tayo42 wrote: | Maybe they don't want to remote workers? They make hard to get | visas and discourage working on a tourist visa? | resonance1994 wrote: | There are several nationalities belonging to the third world | for whom this is a godsend (not this one particularly, but | others in the region). As an Indian national, I have to undergo | a painful process to procure a tourist visa, which is often | valid only for a few days. Something like this which let's me | work remotely for clients based over Europe and North America, | and let's me travel through Schengen without any stress is | really a game changer. | Algemarin wrote: | > As an Indian national | | As an Indian national, you are not eligible for this visa | program. | | One of the requirements is: | | > you do not need a visa to enter the Schengen area | version_five wrote: | That's even stranger then, so it's exclusively targeting | people who could effectively just come there anyway. | Algemarin wrote: | Correct. It is very explicitly targeting tourists who | want to stay for more than 90 days, up to 180 days. | Basically this is a convoluted method of extending | tourism to rich tourists for a longer (specifically, a | double) period of time to have them pump more of their | money into the country. That's all. | mrleinad wrote: | Third world tourist that earns over 8k per month? Quite a | small pool to draw from there. | mytailorisrich wrote: | I believe Iceland is in the EEA, which means EU, Norwegian, and | Swiss citizens have free movement and can move there | unrestricted. | alexanderchr wrote: | Not unrestricted, but easily. You only have to prove that | you're self sufficient. | zahma wrote: | You'd damn sure better be earning well over 7,000 USD a month. | Iceland is so expensive, and I'd imagine those prices have gone | up with inflation. Even the locals have a secondary pricelist. | It's a nice place to visit, but I'm not sure the cost is worth | the living. | [deleted] | eunos wrote: | The minimum salary requirements is quite huge, almost 90000 USD | per annum. Seems for now targeting American. | robopsychology wrote: | It's European too, you can pretty easily hit $90k in fully | remote contract jobs | umanwizard wrote: | Most Europeans can already live in Iceland without needing a | visa. | robopsychology wrote: | Ah yeah, I forget this as a Brit (: | devoutsalsa wrote: | That's likely due to the high cost of living in Iceland. You | can live cheap-ish anywhere, but it takes a bit of local | knowledge to do that, and I suspect the cheaper housing options | in Iceland are not what most digital nomads seek. One data | point, in spring of 2021, I saw 1kg of cherries (imported from | the Netherlands) in the store for the equivalent of 25 USD. | diceduckmonk wrote: | A Domino's pizza there is $30 for a medium. | amatecha wrote: | I happen to have my stack of receipts from my Iceland trip | in front of me (was cleaning out some stuff), and my | "bearnaise burger & fries" from the "N1" gas station was | 1770 ISK or about $17.50 CAD, $13USD. Let's see what else I | have here.. Tenderloin steak from Strikid in Akureyri was | 5990 ISK or $59CAD, $44USD, Creme Brulee was 1990 ISK so | $20 CAD or $14.50 USD. (btw Strikid was absolutely | delicious, 100% recommended).. Indeed Iceland is pretty | expensive, though not too bad IMO. I'm surprised how ultra- | high the requirement is to be granted this VISA, though. | ambicapter wrote: | Sounds like a mid-size american city. | MisterBastahrd wrote: | I live in a large city and I can get a large Dominos | pizza delivered at full menu price for about $20. If I | pick it up from the store it's like $8. | xingped wrote: | Only 180 days (and only if you're currently in your home | country)? That's pretty lame and makes it not really worth it. If | I want to live in a country on a remote worker visa, I'd want it | to be at least 1yr minimum in length. As it stands, that's barely | any better/different than a normal tourist visa. | distances wrote: | Except that you can't work with a tourist visa? Seems like a | major difference. | Retric wrote: | Most countries allow you to do some remote work on a tourist | visa. Banning people from checking work email is simply | untenable if you want tourism. | | UK for example has a fairly explicit line: "The applicant | must not receive payment from a UK source for any activities | undertaken in the UK." | | The idea of someone working fully remotely gets tricky as for | example the US wants you to pay US taxes if you've made more | than 3k/year while working in the US. | tenpies wrote: | There is something deeply ironic about: | | > visa for remote workers | | > remote | | > Applications can only be submitted in paper form. | | What a fantastic way to attract people who will work through the | internet: by having them submit paperwork through well, paper. | | 20,000 ISK says the forms get scanned as soon as they arrive too. | bengalister wrote: | The limit to 6 months is pretty disappointing. Also the 1,000,000 | ISK monthly salary for workers in the Schengen area is pretty | restrictive, except for Switzerland, Norway, not that many people | earn that level of salary. | itslennysfault wrote: | You can stay 90 days on a visitor visa and just leave for a | weekend every 90 days and start the clock over. When I was on | my last stint as a "digital nomad" I did this a couple times | over in a couple different countries. There really isn't any | way to get "caught". Your host country doesn't care because | you're importing money and spending it there. The country where | you have your job doesn't care because you're still paying | income tax there. Only catch is you have to keep a residency in | your country of origin. Also, of course, your employer needs to | be cool with it, but truthfully if you're remote anyways they | can't really tell where you live as long as you're online | during the expected hours. Although for me I thought it better | to be honest/transparent. | | All of the above assumes US country of origin, but I'm sure | it'd work the same with many countries. | matthews2 wrote: | > You can stay 90 days on a visitor visa and just leave for a | weekend every 90 days and start the clock over. | | In what country is this the case? For countries in the | Schengen area, the rule is 90 days out of any 180 day period. | momirlan wrote: | one of the most expensive countries in the universe, | unfortunately. | ghaff wrote: | So basically not much different from a 90-day tourist visa except | that you can legitimately remote work which, in practice, there | are no real restrictions to doing anyway so long as you're low- | profile about it. | KMag wrote: | > so long as you're low-profile about it. | | And your employer is fine with it, or willing to turn a blind | eye. That rules out lots of people working for large companies, | particularly in highly regulated industries. | | I would have loved to work remotely from Thailand in my | previous job, and my previous employer would have been fine | with it, had I been able to show them a work visa. | Unfortunately, the Thai SMART Visa would have required my | employer to have a Thai subsidiary. I could have created my own | Thai single proprietorship and perhaps gotten my employer to | hire me indirectly via that Thai entity, but at a minimum, that | would have required lots of high-level approvals. | | I got an email from the Ukrainian authorities (pre-2022) saying | they didn't care if I worked remotely for a foreign company on | a 90-day on-arrival tourist visa, and that was sufficient for | my employer (as long as I didn't visit post-2014 conflict | zones). (The Ukrainian ministry's email reply was along the | lines of "Why are you asking us? Why would we care if you work | remotely as a tourist, as long as you aren't doing any labor | that requires a presence in Ukraine?") I worked from Kiev for a | couple of months after a couple of high-level approvals. | | Here's hoping more countries adopt digital nomad-friendly work | visas. Lots of countries currently turn a blind eye, but it's | much better to have everything explicit and above-board. | ghaff wrote: | I'm guessing most employers who wouldn't be fine with | employees working in another country on a tourist visa for a | few months also wouldn't be OK with them doing so on a work | visa at least without lots of paperwork and approvals. | | Of course, people who don't require special business visas to | enter a country for, say, an event routinely do work when | traveling in many cases. I've never done months at a time but | I've certainly had ~1 month trips in Europe that were some | combination of business and pleasure. | [deleted] | jyscao wrote: | I suppose it also allows one to stay for >90 days (but <=180 | days) if one so inclines. | | Personally, having yet to visit Iceland, and hearing from | friends who have that it's not the cheapest place, plus its | northernly latitude, 90 days for me to first scout it out is | more than enough for me. | ghaff wrote: | I would guess that there isn't a lot of overlap between "90 | days isn't nearly enough" and "no interest in this being an | open-ended sort of thing" people. | devoutsalsa wrote: | I'd guess it also doesn't as staying in the Schengen area (aka | free movement area the includes most of Europe, including | Iceland). An American visiting as a "tourist" can't spend | consecutive 90 days in Iceland & then hop over to Spain, as | that could take them over the 90 day Schengen visit limitation. | | https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/ | cm2012 wrote: | Iceland is such a beautiful country. I loved my visit there. I | long for the day energy is cheap and clean enough everywhere that | we can have hot tubs and pools in every town in every country | like in Iceland. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-03-28 23:00 UTC)