[HN Gopher] Original Prusa MK4
___________________________________________________________________
Original Prusa MK4
Author : oztamir
Score : 176 points
Date : 2023-03-29 17:15 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.prusa3d.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.prusa3d.com)
| sho_hn wrote:
| So I would really like to get into 3D printing, but I struggle
| with discomfort over the health implications. I live in a small
| rented apartment and can't easily work out space or, much more
| importantly, external venilation. Yes, I've looked into PLA vs.
| ABS, I've looked into enclosures with carbon/HEPA filters, etc.,
| but I still don't want to have it in my living space without a
| vent to the outdoors.
|
| Here's the best I can come up with: A well-insulated enclosure
| with a filter ... on the balcony, with internal heating and PID
| temp control. Maybe some thing for humidity control as well.
| Thoughts? Any good off-the-shelf enclosure products that would
| fit an Ender S1 Pro or a Prusa MK3/4?
| latchkey wrote:
| Box around the printer with a vent/fan blowing outside. It'll
| be negative pressure in the box, so everything should just vent
| out. Even if you can just crack a window and get the airflow
| going out the window... you can push a flexible tube far out
| onto your balcony...
| levpopov wrote:
| This is the best way. Inline duct fan and a flex hose running
| out of your window (you can print an adapter/connector to fit
| perfectly). It works very well even if your enclosure is not
| airtight (and it shouldn't be when printing PLA since you
| want a constant stream of air getting inside for cooling) -
| just let negative pressure do its thing.
| numpad0 wrote:
| Kind of depends on ventilation setup in your house, some
| houses/condos are built to draw air through windows and out
| through fans with high static pressures, in which case
| trying to vent out don't work that well.
|
| I tried it with SLA printer and it just filled the room
| with resin stinks for days. It really depends...
| sho_hn wrote:
| It may seem super silly or I'm just somehow dumb, but the
| "run a hose to your balcony" is the difficult part for me.
| That means having a door open for 10+ hours at a time,
| which is a climate control challenge for the room.
|
| That's why I figured: Why not put the entire enclosure on
| the balcony, and then heat-humidity control the inside of
| it? Sure, more complex system and higher power draw, ...
| but maybe there's whole kits for this? Like, for keeping a
| 3D printer in a windy shed?
| latchkey wrote:
| 6" wide piece of cardboard that is floor to ceiling of
| the balcony door. Put it on the side where the door
| locks. Cut a hole near the bottom of it and stick the
| flexible tubing through it. Now you can shut the door and
| hold the cardboard in, while still maintaining the
| climate control.
|
| You can use something thicker than cardboard like the
| plastic version of cardboard... google: 'Corrugated
| Plastic Polycarbonate Acrylic Sheets'.
|
| I was also thinking that you can even extend a pole out
| your balcony and attach the tube to that. This way, the
| air makes it far enough out that it won't even blow back.
| sho_hn wrote:
| I appreciate this, the challenge is that the wife won't
| let me get away with that level of jank (the balcony door
| opens into the living room) ... :-)
|
| In the next life I'll get a house and build it _around_
| the 3D printer.
| latchkey wrote:
| You can do it non-jank. I just realized there are
| products for this (mostly around portable AC exhaust
| vents). Google 'sliding door vent kit'.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/sliding-door-vent-
| kit/s?k=sliding+doo...
|
| > In the next life I'll get a house and build it around
| the 3D printer.
|
| Or just 3d print a new wife? (joking)
| sho_hn wrote:
| That _does_ look not-so-bad, but ... unfortunately we
| also don 't have a sliding door. Nor sliding windows.
| Germany goes for those mechanically complicated multi-
| direction tilt/swing hinges instead. They're super mental
| (and metal), and break my aspirations.
|
| I know, I'm not an easy customer.
|
| > Or just 3d print a new wife? (joking)
|
| I've seen too many terrible Benchys in reviews to fall
| for this one!
| newaccount74 wrote:
| I worried about the same thing, and decided to print only PLA
| and PETG and print without enclosure. The printer is in the
| living room, and I just close the doors to the bedrooms and
| open the windows in the morning to let fresh air in.
|
| I think it's questionable how much those tiny filters help
| anyway. If you print a lot, you would have to constantly swap
| filters, if you don't print a lot, it doesn't really make that
| much of a difference.
|
| When I want to print ABS, I go to a Makerspace and use their
| Ultimaker.
| codyv wrote:
| Prusa does have an official enclosure but I'm not sure of its
| MK4 compatibility. https://www.prusa3d.com/product/original-
| prusa-enclosure-3/
| Lukas_Skywalker wrote:
| It is compatible:
|
| > MK4 is fully compatible with the Original Prusa Enclosure.
| nvahalik wrote:
| You may be able to get by with a regular air filtration system.
| Not sure where you are, but I have a Rabbit Air[0] that is very
| good at removing smells has multi-layer filtration.
|
| Also, buying good quality filament is important. You want stuff
| that isn't made in China.
|
| [0]: https://www.rabbitair.com
| LordHeini wrote:
| My FDM printer is not stinky enough to cause a big problem
| (might be still unhealthy though).
|
| But i recently got a resin printer and that thing lives in the
| bathroom now beside the washing machine. It has build in
| ventilation through a coal filter but the stench is just awful.
|
| In a pinch Bathrooms are not the worst place for printers
| because they have ventilation and are not in use most of the
| day.
|
| Just don't store your filament in the same room since it might
| get wet from the showers steam.
|
| Although this might have a very low WAF, so check with your
| better half if applicable :)
| thelazyone wrote:
| >But i recently got a resin printer and that thing lives in
| the bathroom now beside the washing machine. It has build in
| ventilation through a coal filter but the stench is just
| awful.
|
| It's also worth noting that the smell varies considerably
| between different kinds of resin. having a dedicated space is
| optimal, but with the right materials it's farily manageable,
| especially if you're not planning to run it 24/7.
| hengheng wrote:
| Creality has this $60 enclosure that seems to do the job. I
| learned that the entire voron project is against separate
| heaters, they recommend to leave the heated bed on for an hour
| instead.
| donio wrote:
| How about using a printing service instead?
| precompute wrote:
| If you can shell out a little more, you might be able to print
| a Nevermore filter[1] and use activated carbon to filter VOCs,
| provided your printer is enclosed.
|
| You could also buy a Bambu Labs P1P, which is fully enclosed,
| or build a Voron. There's also the Creality Sermoon V1, but
| with chinese printers you always have to replace / upgrade the
| parts, so they're really not that cheap in the long run.
|
| 1: https://github.com/nevermore3d/Nevermore_Micro
| bmitc wrote:
| Just a note that the P1P does not come fully enclosed. You
| need to either print your own sides or buy them from someone.
| I don't think Bambu Lab even sells them, and even then they
| are just side panels and don't include the front. The Bambu
| Lab X1 Carbon comes fully enclosed, however. It is one of the
| main reasons that I am considering just going for the X1
| Carbon. If the P1P had a fully enclosed option, I would go
| for it.
| precompute wrote:
| Thanks for the correction, I wrote that post off the top of
| my head. I definitely meant the X1, that's the printer I
| had in mind.
|
| And anyway, if you're printing PLA you shouldn't do it in a
| completely closed enclosure, the temperature would be too
| high (or so I've read). Even the Sermoon V1 has cutouts for
| a small vent at the back. Even the Vorons aren't fully
| enclosed, although there's the Box-Zero[1] addon that does
| fully enclose the printer.
|
| 1: https://github.com/zruncho3d/BoxZero
| Symbiote wrote:
| I put the printer on a study Ikea wheeled table, and put it in
| the bathroom when I use it. The ventilating fan in the bathroom
| is sufficient.
| hirundo wrote:
| I would be as concerned about the health implications of the
| sound. The constant background noise adds to the baseline
| stress level of the environment, and it's difficult not to
| intersect printing and sleep schedules.
|
| So I recently moved mine from the middle my medium sized house
| to the far end from the bedroom, behind a door. And even with
| that I'm considering enclosing it in a cabinet, to reduce the
| noise on that side of the house too. Yet the model I have is
| not particularly loud.
| Symbiote wrote:
| The Mk3S (so presumably the Mk4) has a silent mode, which
| cuts down the noise significantly. I have mine on a
| 5cmx25x25cm paving slab which also helps avoid vibrations.
|
| With a closed door between my bedroom and the printer at
| night, it's no problem.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| The 70% print time reduction seems like a game changer. Any way
| to do this with the MK3S?
| newaccount74 wrote:
| It says high speed printing will come in a firmware update...
| Have they released remote printing support for the Prusa mini
| yet?
| Karliss wrote:
| The update with wifi support for Prusa mini was released ~3-4
| months ago. Or are you referring to something else?
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| There's also various upgrade kits from the 3 to 3.5, 3.9 and 4.
|
| Here is the full kit https://www.prusa3d.com/product/original-
| prusa-i3-mk3-s-to-m...
| HeavenFox wrote:
| Sadly at $579 that is almost the price of a full printer at
| $799.
|
| May as well buy the full printer and sell the old one :(
| bilsbie wrote:
| Has anyone figured out remote slicing?
|
| I'd love to just click print on a thingiverse page and have my
| printer start going.
| infthi wrote:
| 3dprinteros has an online slicer. So, assuming you are happy
| with the default profile and the printer is online, you can go
| "Upload stl" -> "next" -> "next" -> "next" -> "print".
| metal_am wrote:
| You can get kinda close to that with OctoPrint running on a
| RaspberryPi. You'll still have to slice it manually, but you
| can upload the gcode and start the print from another browser
| tab.
| fanatic2pope wrote:
| If you have OctoPrint, you can make it even easier by setting
| up remote printing directly from PrusaSlicer, so you can
| upload and print with a single click. This is how I have my
| mini setup and it works well.
|
| https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/prusaslicer/guide-config-
| pru...
| dotnet00 wrote:
| There are so many variables which one might want to tweak
| depending on their specific use case that it seems a bit
| difficult to boil it down to one-click.
|
| Especially with slicers still introducing all sorts of
| improvements which might need tuning of their own to adapt to
| older designs.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Options have existed for awhile, but unless you have the
| specific slicing profile in mind (which is NOT the same for
| every file; some might need supports... some you might not care
| about quality, etc), it's not going to be one-size-fits-all.
|
| As others have mentioned, the closet is using something like
| PrusaSlicer and using 'Upload and start print'. You do the
| slicing manually, then you just press a button and it uploads
| the gcode and starts printing.
| tlonny wrote:
| God damn it - I just bought a MK3...
| Symbiote wrote:
| The announcement article says people who bought a Mk3S within
| the last month will receive a voucher for $150 or $200 which
| could be put towards the upgrade kit (or, I assume, filament
| etc).
|
| https://blog.prusa3d.com/announcing-original-prusa-mk4_76585...
| tlonny wrote:
| Thanks for the heads up!
| Francis2023 wrote:
| Replaced all 25 MKS3+ machines with 15 Bambu P1Ps and 5 Bambu
| X1C's about 2 months ago. Sold the last Mks3+ yesterday.
|
| They Print 3 Times faster than the MKS3+ with same or better
| quality in some prints. 24/7 printing almost with zero issues in
| my print farm. BVery easy to send jobs to it from the Bambu
| slicer based on the Prusa slicer which is open source and
| enhanced to make complicated print jobs spread across multiple
| virtual print beds a beautiful thing!
|
| At this point i see ZERO reason to consider a MK4. Bambu hit this
| out of the ball park and into the neighbouring city as far as I
| am concerned.
| postalrat wrote:
| You created an account just to say you aren't going to buy
| something?
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Prusa mentions in their articles about how China slowly
| appropriated solar panel designs, beat domestic companies on
| cost, and now all solar panels are made in China. And that,
| they hope, they can avoid this for 3D Printers in particular
| because Chinese companies do not have a good track record for
| following open-source licenses promptly.
|
| However, I see all this and think, man... Prusa, you were 2
| years too late on the XL and the MK4. And it's going to hurt
| the Prusa marketshare immensely.
| latchkey wrote:
| It'll be interesting to watch the Aurora Tech review when it
| comes out. Curious to see how she likes it.
| rcarmo wrote:
| Yep. We enjoy her reviews a lot.
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| These look like very solid improvements over the MK3S+ (I
| personally have two MK3S+, and use them a lot), and I love their
| commitment to open hardware and for making upgrade kits
| available, but it's a bit disappointing to see still how far
| Prusa is behind truly next-gen printers like the Bambu Lab
| X1-Carbon.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| > how far Prusa is behind truly next-gen printers like the
| Bambu Lab X1-Carbon
|
| Can you expand on this?
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| The biggest disadvantage in my mind of the Prusa MK2/3/4
| printers is they use the original i3 design. It's a good
| design, and very simple to build, maintain and program. But
| it limits the print speed due to the amount of mass that has
| to move, particularly in the Y axis. The entire bed has to
| move which induces vibrations at higher speeds.
|
| Newer printers (including the Prusa XL) use a CoreXY design,
| where the extruder is controlled in the X and Y axes by
| belts, which results in less mass that has to move, and
| allows the printer to print much, much faster. In the case of
| the Bambu Lab printers, it can be two to three times faster
| for a similar print quality.
| eropple wrote:
| CoreXY printers absolutely do have more stable kinematics
| for better acceleration, but modern open printer firmware--
| mostly Klipper, though you can do it with Marlin in an
| unsatisfying way--implements resonance compensation, aka
| input shaping, in a way that really improves acceleration
| (which matters way more than top speed for most prints).
|
| My Sovol SV06 can make a 3DBenchy in 37 minutes after doing
| my input shaping samples. That's not as fast as an X1
| Carbon, but it cost a quarter as much, and I tend to think
| that when it comes to 3D printers that bandwidth is more
| valuable than latency.
| bboygravity wrote:
| I'll take the slower printer speed if it means I get better
| reliability, repeatability and repearability. Any day.
|
| I've wasted enough hours on fancy
| features/materials/settings that don't work. Couldn't care
| less about the feature of being able to print a part a few
| minutes/hours faster tbh.
| postalrat wrote:
| Years ago people were talking how delta printers were so
| much better, faster, cheaper, etc than bedslingers. Years
| later people forgot about delta printers and now its
| core-xy. Meanwhile bedslingers continue to just work.
|
| I could care less if you printer goes 50% faster if it
| fails even 5% more.
| imtringued wrote:
| The printer is on par with dirt cheap Chinese competitors
| like Sovol.
| Symbiote wrote:
| Personally, I think buying any Chinese product when an
| alternative exists has become unconscionable.
|
| China's current support of Russia is an obvious issue, as well
| as their threats towards Taiwan and their destruction of
| democracy in Hong Kong.
|
| Problems with IP infringement abound, and in this case it's
| particularly disappointing as Prusa is committed to open
| source.
|
| I hope Prusa continue to innovate, but I also hope people
| reject Bambu Lab. Doing so is one of the few direct actions we
| can take against the Chinese principles that directly oppose
| Western values.
| [deleted]
| outworlder wrote:
| Disclaimer: I own an Ender 3, heavily modified.
|
| Prusa printers are generally rock solid and their quality
| control is great.
|
| For 1k, I really think we should be looking at a CoreXY machine
| (or, at least, something that doesn't have a bed that moves,
| whatever the kinematics). That's a major speed limitation, and
| it also causes vibrations even in lower speeds as you are
| moving the bed and your entire model. That's the only thing I
| cannot easily change in my printer, anything else, from the bed
| to extruders is easy to modify.
|
| Sure the MK4 has a larger build volume. But so do many other
| printers.
|
| The breakout extruder board is a nice thing but it is available
| for other printers too.
|
| I like the loadcell concept for bed leveling but I wonder how
| much better it is versus a simple bltouch.
|
| I really wonder who is the target demographic for this printer
| and why they wouldn't get other Prusa offerings instead.
|
| > I love their commitment to open hardware
|
| Prusa is relatively open with their hardware so it's indeed a
| massive bonus versus some proprietary Bambu Labs printer.
| However, they are the same company pushing for pre-sliced files
| which is a terrible idea. Not only they can be malicious, but
| they will also be specific to a given printer, which would
| benefit Prusa if most gcode is created for Prusa printers.
| faeranne wrote:
| > However, they are the same company pushing for pre-sliced
| files which is a terrible idea.
|
| Agreed, though should be noted this happens across the
| industry. Whoever is the current fore-runner tends to push
| for it. MakerBot did the same thing back when they led the
| pack. Thing is, the only end Prusa can get from this is
| encouraging use of their printers. A shady method for sure,
| but MakerBot wanted to push for an entirely proprietary
| chain, from the model file to the printer, and because they
| had just gone proprietary, they could make that happen. Prusa
| has no legal or technical weight to make that happen (and
| hopefully they have no intention of going that direction). So
| long as they keep pushing open hardware and firmware, their
| push for presliced is (to me) not a deal breaker. It's wrong,
| and they should be called out for it, but it's not gonna lead
| to malicious legal action.
| [deleted]
| tcoop25 wrote:
| I just canceled my X1-Carbon order. Just spend some time on the
| Bambu Labs subreddit and you will see a lot of frustrated
| owners. It is insanely loud, and it seems unreliable and buggy.
|
| I have owned a lot of printers over the years, and the only
| printers I, or any of my colleagues come back to are Prusa
| printers. They are incredibly reliable. The few times we have
| had issues with a part, we have been able to print a
| replacement. I am constantly excited by fancy new printers that
| all promise to be the next big thing, and stupidly keep buying
| them.
|
| I will take Prusa's amazing customer support, a product I know
| I will be able to upgrade when they release the next iteration,
| and the company that has the best free software as well (the
| Bambu is just a forked version of Prusa's slicer).
| dekhn wrote:
| I have two MK3S and I have to say I love them. They're
| simple, they work well, and I can repair basically any part
| on it using their documentation. The new model adds mostly
| refinements for people who want to do production printing.
| openmapsguy wrote:
| You'll find people frustrated with Prusa too. There was a
| whole discord dedicated to trying to fix all issues.
|
| People act like having the power supply die, bed probe not
| being reliable, not having x axis tensioner are all normal.
| Just print out a bunch of parts from some randoms to fix.
|
| Also Prusas software are forks too so weird thing to call out
| bambu for.
| postalrat wrote:
| What power supply would you suggest Prusa use instead of
| what they are using? Is Bambu using something better?
|
| Bambu slicer is a fork of Prusa's slicer. Prusa's slicer is
| a fork of Slic3r. Although perfectly fine it is notable
| that both Prusa and Bambu make 3d printers while the Slic3r
| project was just making a slicer.
| blisterpeanuts wrote:
| Maybe I'm lucky, as are the hundreds other Prusa MK3S
| owners I see on the various forums, but the problems you
| mention seem to be rare.
| slg wrote:
| > Just spend some time on the Bambu Labs subreddit and you
| will see a lot of frustrated owners.
|
| In my experience this is true of basically all very niche
| brand subreddits. People go to those subreddits to complain
| and/or get help. It isn't a representative sample. The people
| who are completely happy with their Bambu Labs machines have
| little incentive to spend time on a 14k user subreddit when
| they can go instead participant in a 1.7m user subreddit like
| /r/3DPrinting.
| Filligree wrote:
| I have a Mk3S and a Bambu X1C. The Bambu is much, much
| better.
|
| The Mk4 covers most of the distance, but at a price point
| matching the X1C, and it's only _most_. Speeding it up is
| nice, but... pressure advance depends on detailed
| characteristics of the filament, such as viscosity, which
| varies from brand to brand and _color to color_.
|
| The X1 has a lidar, which from experience actually does work
| as advertised. The Mk4 has... what? Prusament, maybe? I would
| not be surprised to find you can only get the advertised
| speed if you use Prusa's precalibrated filament.
|
| Or you can print the calibration lines and do it manually.
| That does work; it's a ten second eyeballing procedure,
| simple enough for the X1 to do full auto. But you're really
| supposed to do that for _every startup_ -- characteristics
| change as the reel ages, which doesn 't even happen evenly
| across the entire reel -- and nobody does that.
| sottol wrote:
| As far as I've seend the X1s lidar is mostly useless, it's
| doing fine-calibration at most based on the current
| filament profile and seems to be inconsistent.
|
| That's not to say that the X1 itself is - just that lidar
| is imho a gimick.
| Filligree wrote:
| I've done a great deal of printing, both with the lidar
| enabled and disabled.
|
| For PLA it doesn't make a big difference. But when you're
| printing polycarbonate or PETG, the quality difference is
| dramatic. Perhaps you have a defective unit?
| aspett wrote:
| Here's the thing, though: It's almost definitely a case of
| silent majority. The printer is pretty phenomenal and I've
| had excellent support from Bambu so far in New Zealand, no
| less.
| jsjohnst wrote:
| > Just spend some time on the Bambu Labs subreddit and you
| will see a lot of frustrated owners.
|
| I have had mine (w/ four total AMS units) for two months now
| and have over 500hrs of printing so far w/ minimal failed
| prints. I often print in sport and/or ludicrous too. I own
| eight other 3D printers of various major brands (including
| Prusa) and it's by far and away the best I've ever owned.
| Easily comparable to printers 2-3x more expensive imho.
|
| > It is insanely loud, and it seems unreliable and buggy.
|
| Even with the door open to the room mine is in, I never hear
| it. Sure, if you're within 5ft of it, it is a bit loud, but
| not terribly so, especially if you reduce fan speeds (they
| have conservative defaults). If you are someone who wants to
| sleep next to your printer farm, maybe not a good fit, but
| for any normal person the noise isn't a concern imho.
|
| > I just canceled my X1-Carbon order.
|
| Your loss! I'm doing the reverse, thinking about buying
| _another_ one.
| asveikau wrote:
| > Your loss!
|
| This reminds me of an attitude I see in some of these hobby
| communities. The idea that someone who is happy with a
| different product is somehow wrong or losing. People are
| highly invested and identified with their choices. Why not
| just be ok with choices other people make, even if we
| disagree with them?
| golem14 wrote:
| Always been that way. Ask any Atari ST user about Amiga
| and vice versa.
| dia80 wrote:
| What's that little box for? A foot warmer?
| outworlder wrote:
| How easy is it to repair?
| ferminaut wrote:
| I own two MK3s+'s. They are solid machines if you are looking
| to print PLA and some PETG. The stock extruder is a PITA. The
| MK4's redesigned nozzle/heat break & 10:1 extruder are
| basically a Bondtech LGX + Revo & should make for a great
| improvement.
|
| The MMU3 seems like a marginal improvement, you still have
| purge towers & large buffer boxes. Hopefully the reliability
| out of the box has improved.
|
| I wonder if it's too little too late for Prusa. A Voron,
| Ratrig, Bambu Lab printer seems like it has all these features
| & is CoreXY. The multi material options seem better on these
| options too (Enraged Rabbit Carrot Feeder, Bambu AMS).
|
| In the case of the Voron or Ratrig, you'll load Klipper instead
| of the tried & tested (and outdated) Marlin.
|
| In 2023, I am not sure I'd buy a MK4 at $1100 when you can get
| a Bambu for $100 more.
| riceart wrote:
| Agree it's tough. The non enthusiasts that don't give a shit
| and aren't interested in a cash outlay are in the sub $500
| market. Once you break that point you're unlikely to want to
| save a couple hundred bucks. I would have definitely had
| started with the Bambu if it were available a couple years
| ago. If I get tired of my MK3S I would be highly unlikely to
| upgrade to a Prusa.
| anamexis wrote:
| It seems like an odd place in Prusa's own product line-up.
|
| I have a Prusa MINI+, which for $450 gets you a great
| printer. The print volume on the MK3 and now MK4 is just not
| that much better - 180x180x180 for the MINI, 250x210x220 for
| the MK4.
|
| If I wanted to upgrade and wanted to stick with Prusa,
| MK3/MK4 wouldn't come into the picture, I'd go straight to
| the Prusa XL.
| [deleted]
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| I have a Mini too, and I could see myself get a MK4 as the
| Mini has been a bit of a disappointment. The X and Y axes
| on mine aren't 90deg and there seems to be no hardware
| adjustment (just a rigid printed part), no support for
| software adjustments either (the respective GCode is
| disabled in firmware), so I can't print proper rectangles,
| just parallelograms, and any boxes and lids I print never
| fit properly. I want to keep tinkering to a minimum (that's
| why I got a Prusa), and I can make do with goskew and
| preprocessing the gcode, but I found I have to repeat
| callibration quite often and it's a fairly annoying process
| and not very exact and means I can't reuse gcode files at a
| later date, so having a printer that doesn't have this
| defect would be very welcome.
|
| My Mini also likes to ram the nozzle into the build plate
| once in a while without any of it's safeties triggering,
| heating element stuck on and the Z stepper fully engaged,
| so I can't let it run unsupervised either, and the filament
| sensor is pretty hit and miss as well. I may have had bad
| luck with my unit (I ordered right at release), but I'm
| definitely looking for something more reliable and,
| frankly, less dangerous.
|
| The Prusa Mk4 does look like a solid hands-off machine and
| hopefully they didn't cut corners there like with the Mini,
| and hopefully customer support is also better for the more
| expensive ones. I don't have any use for the XL's feature
| set (I only print relatively small parts and not that
| many), but I didn't want to get a Mk3s as it's been pretty
| dated for a long time now. I'll wait a bit until other
| people have had a chance to run into any major flaws
| though.
| sircastor wrote:
| I think as 3D printer enthusiasts, we focus on structure and
| features. The thing that I think of when I think of Prusa is
| reliability. For most people the most important thing about a
| 3D printer is that it prints. It doesn't matter if it's
| corexy or uses a Bowden tube, or the board is 32bit. And
| while those technologies ostensibly provide a better
| experience, it doesn't really matter (for most) so long as
| you get thing thing you wanted to print.
|
| For me, Bambu is too proprietary, Voron is too self-built,
| Ender is too unpredictable.
|
| By current printer is self built and it works sometimes. My
| next printer is a Prusa.
| eYrKEC2 wrote:
| I'm not sure about too little, too late. All the different
| brands are the flavor of the month ARM SBCs vs raspberry pi
| -- Prusa may lag in features, but at least I've heard of
| them, they have a community, and they're not going to
| disappear tomorrow like something off ali baba.
| eropple wrote:
| Voron and Ratrig are not going to "disappear tomorrow".
|
| Bambu--I'm less sanguine about them, to be fair.
|
| The Prusa XL looks tremendous and I'm very interested, but
| a $1100 bedslinger had better literally make you breakfast
| to warrant it over a $250 SV06 or Neptune 3 Pro, and the
| MK4 does not.
| faeranne wrote:
| I'd argue that Prusa still has value over both Voron and
| Bambu Lab, though that value is dependent on the user. Voron
| still requires significant self-assembly, as you can't buy it
| as a prebuilt (far as I know), and doesn't have a company
| directly sponsoring it (that may be a plus for some). Bambu,
| on the other hand, is well built, but highly proprietary, and
| can absolutely rug pull without warning. This puts Prusa at a
| perfect position for makers/tinkers/hackers. The ability to
| continue to self improve if one wants, without needing to if
| one is too busy. I'm personally not a fan of Prusa Connect,
| as I like having all my systems run under software I've
| vetted, and right now that's still OctoPrint. But the thing
| is, I can still absolutely get OctoPrint running on the Prusa
| Connect hardware. It requires some tinkering, but that's in
| my control. Voron requires I build everything from scratch,
| and Bambu requires I use only their firmware/connection app.
| I've got so many things already linked with OctoPrint that
| moving systems simply wouldn't function. I'd have to
| completely reset all my automation.
|
| As for Ratrig, that might be a healthy competition, though
| I've never looked into the quality of parts there. I know
| I've sat an Ender next to my Prusa and found the price vs
| quality to match surprisingly well, so Prusa's not the only
| game, but for something I can control, while still having a
| company to lean on when I want to, Prusa's got a good thing
| going.
| alpaca128 wrote:
| Voron? Apparently that takes about 30 hours of build time,
| that's definitely not my kind of project. I want to use the
| printer. Bambulabs? Looks very interesting, but it's as
| proprietary as it gets. With Prusa it's clear what I'm
| getting into.
|
| I want to upgrade from my Prusa Mini and can't justify the
| cost for the XL, so the Mk4 seems like a decent choice. I'm
| sure people building and modding their own printers and
| flashing firmwares might have other favorites, but that's
| simply not what I buy 3d printers for.
| sydd wrote:
| Is it really? I've looked at the Bambu Lab printer and while on
| paper it looks nice I would be very hesitant to buy it, their
| "advanced" features not that convincing:
|
| - IMO multi material printing has always been a buggy gimmick
| (mostly multi material setups are very prone to failure).
|
| - Them advertising that the printer can print "advanced"
| materials like PC is a gimmick too, the main issue with FDM
| printers is layer adhesion and no matter what material you are
| using its going to suck compared to injection molding.
|
| - bashing bed slingers is wrong too, they have their advantages
| compared to CoreXY setups (mostly simpler mechanics)
|
| IMO FDM printers have 2 main issues:
|
| 1. Unreliable due to lots of moving parts. A solid design with
| quality components mostly mitigates this.
|
| 2. Layer adhesion sucks limiting possible applications. Some
| very innovative non-planar printing could be a solution but it
| does not exist yet. Or could be solved by printing metal, but
| these devices are far from home use.
|
| Resin printers solve both issues, but bring their own (mostly
| that resins are very toxic stuff that you dont want in your
| home.)
|
| So no, this printer is in no way revolutionary (neither is the
| Prusa). Until both of these issues are solved home 3D printers
| will be mostly used to print benchies and accessories for
| tabletop games.
| [deleted]
| eropple wrote:
| _> - IMO multi material printing has always been a buggy
| gimmick (mostly multi material setups are very prone to
| failure)._
|
| Agreed, with the asterisk that this applies more to multi-
| feeders (Prusa's MMU, Bambu's AMS) rather than IDEX. Which is
| where Prusa's going with the XL, and I'm excited about it.
|
| _> - Them advertising that the printer can print "advanced"
| materials like PC is a gimmick too, the main issue with FDM
| printers is layer adhesion and no matter what material you
| are using its going to suck compared to injection molding._
|
| Flag on the play: sweeping generalization, ten yard penalty,
| repeat second down.
|
| PC printing is _really_ handy for intrinsically bespoke
| things like tools in the wood shop. I don 't need an
| injection-molded run of them--but nobody's selling things I
| can buy that address problems in the way I want to.
|
| _> - bashing bed slingers is wrong too, they have their
| advantages compared to CoreXY setups (mostly simpler
| mechanics)_
|
| This is an effectively solved problem with modern motion
| system controls. CoreXY on Marlin might be a mess, but CoreXY
| on Klipper is clean. Aside from cost of development and
| manufacture, I don't understand developing new bedslingers
| except for cost...and the MK4 costs $1100.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| > _bashing bed slingers is wrong too, they have their
| advantages compared to CoreXY setups (mostly simpler
| mechanics)_
|
| Tangent: why was moving the bed the solution over having X
| and Y on independent axes? I've always wondered. Cost and
| initial reliability?
| eropple wrote:
| Cost is part of it. If you look at bed-dropper printers
| (the Ender 5 or the Sovol SV05), there's just _more metal_
| involved. Metal is expensive. It 's also heavy, so your
| shipping costs go up.
|
| It's also a simpler set of kinematics for the system to
| deal with. Most 3D printers have pretty dumb
| microprocessors (value engineering!) at their core. CoreXY
| printers use two steppers to execute any movement, and that
| requires more calculations. Delta printers use _three_
| steppers to execute any movement, even.
|
| More modern printers run Klipper, which offloads the
| kinematic calculations to a single-board computer, and that
| addresses a lot of the problems you run into. Klipper also
| helps with bedslinger kinematics too, though, as it has the
| headroom to do some forward-looking optimization. The
| current state of printers is pretty cool.
| treesciencebot wrote:
| Indeed. I always thought they deferred the launch of any new
| model after X1C in order to take the true "just works" crown
| back (with the hopes of it would be something like Intel/AMD
| feuds where the monopoly had finally came to an end and
| customers can finally see some real competition). But
| apparently it is just a classic Prusa printer with better parts
| but still a very very high price to usability ratio (compared
| to Bambu Lab P1P or X1).
| f38zf5vdt wrote:
| It's a proprietary versus open source argument. You can build
| a mk4 clone for much less than the price of a Prusa-branded
| one, as everything is open source. The higher price tag is
| like a donation to open source.
|
| Prusa also makes the open source XL if you want an CoreXY
| model, or you could go with a Voron which is also open
| source.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| I don't know why this is being down voted. Prusa are trying
| to make an open source hardware company work and I guess
| this is what it looks like.
|
| There is so much noise on HN about repairability. Well here
| is some open hardware And it's "the Chinese printers have
| so much more features!"
| svachalek wrote:
| My experience with repairability on Prusa is pretty
| awful, lots of $1 parts that need to be airmailed from
| Czechia for $50. At least the Chinese stuff is easily
| available.
| manual89 wrote:
| If you're in the US, printed solid is basically prusa's
| US arm now and carry a majority of their parts.
| eropple wrote:
| Prusa absolutely builds good stuff, but their level of
| repairability just isn't different from most other
| printers--Bambu notably excepted, as they're a pretty
| closed system. They're all extremely commodity parts,
| from boards to v-wheels.
|
| I wish them well, but the value of their devices to date
| just does not equal the price. (The Prusa XL may change
| this and I'm really excited to play with one.
| kramerger wrote:
| Thats an odd analogy.
|
| Prusa loves open source and maker mentality. Just look at
| PrusaSlicer and Printables.
| treesciencebot wrote:
| > It's a proprietary versus open source argument. You can
| build a mk4 clone for much less than the price of a Prusa-
| branded one, as everything is open source. The higher price
| tag is like a donation to open source.
|
| I would say the higher price tag is more like "Prusa" using
| its name as a quality assurance system where if you want to
| get something working without much hassle (since nearly
| every other mk4/mk3s clone that has been out there really
| really sucks except the ones from Prusa) you have to pay
| the premium.
|
| This is not to say they are necesarrily doing a bad job on
| open sourcing or abusing, but just a mark that "open source
| hardware" doesn't necessarily benefit the customer as much
| as "real world features".
| freetime2 wrote:
| > since nearly every other mk4/mk3s clone that has been
| out there really really sucks except the ones from Prusa
|
| I have had an Ender-3 V2 for a few years and it
| definitely doesn't suck. I did add a BL Touch sensor for
| auto-leveling, and OctoPrint for remote
| printing/monitoring - which are great convenience
| upgrades. But the printer itself is very reliable and the
| only maintenance I've needed to do is to replace a few
| clogged nozzles.
|
| For anyone just getting into 3D printing I would
| definitely recommend an inexpensive i3-style printer vs
| spending two to three times as much on a Prusa.
| eropple wrote:
| _> since nearly every other mk4 /mk3s clone that has been
| out there really really sucks except the ones from Prusa_
|
| The Sovol SV06 has been selling like gangbusters for the
| last six months or so, and it's excellent. And it's
| sub-$250.
|
| If you move a little further away from the i3 clones (and
| the SV06 absolutely _is_ clone-y), that 's where Elegoo--
| or Anycubic if you buy judiciously, or even Creality if
| you get it on sale--still make the argument quite
| difficult.
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| This seems like a bit of a stop-gap since the Prusa XL seems
| to be taking longer to get going than expected, I would hope
| their plan is to totally rearchitect around the Prusa XL
| design and scale that down to the 250mm^3 size class.
|
| They are still very good machines, but I would have a hard
| time recommending anyone get an i3 style printer when the
| advantages of CoreXY are so obvious, and particularly because
| the price gap between the X1C is not very big.
| causality0 wrote:
| _The MK4 will consistently deliver a perfect smooth first layer_
|
| I've lost count of the number of times I've been promised this.
| post_break wrote:
| My cheap ender 3 v2 with a glass bed makes perfectly smooth
| first layers.
| sacnoradhq wrote:
| Original Prusa MK4 kit Out-of-stock :(
|
| I have a MK3S+ with MMU2S, bear clone upgrade, a head upgrade,
| Octoprint with 2 cameras, a temperature regulation chamber, and
| filament dryers.
| Symbiote wrote:
| The kit is not yet in stock, the longer blog post said it would
| be available in about two weeks.
| franky47 wrote:
| I've owned an MK3 since 2018, since then some defects have
| started to appear (the LCD has a contrast blob at the center, and
| I cracked the X-axis stepper bracket), but nothing that prevents
| the printer doing its occasional job.
|
| I print mostly functional parts (home repairs & improvement,
| prototypes), and while I could have printed a fix for the broken
| part, the prospect of taking the whole thing apart (as well as
| for an upgrade to an S+) doesn't appeal to me.
| Symbiote wrote:
| It would be wise to print a new part while you can, just in
| case the cracked part fails completely at some point.
| syntaxing wrote:
| I've been always a huge fan of Prusa and always wanted one (just
| haven't for various reasons, not so much financial related). But
| this feels too little too late. Bambulabs is absolutely eating
| the market and I would be sweating if I were Prusa Research. It
| sucks since Bambulabs is using their slicer and a lot of Prusa's
| technology as a foundation. But most of the people I know have
| decided to skip waiting for the XL or MK4 and jumped for the X1C
| instead. No joke, the past purchases in the past 4 months or so
| from my circle of friends and peers have all been the P1P or X1C.
|
| Edit: Also, its 799 for the kit you can't buy now compared to 699
| for the P1P that you can buy today and literally prints out of
| the box.
| operatingthetan wrote:
| >It sucks since Bambulabs is using their slicer and a lot of
| Prusa's technology as a foundation.
|
| Prusa's slicer is just a fork of Slic3r so I'd say that's fair
| play. Prusa just aggressively brands opensource stuff.
| reaperman wrote:
| > Prusa just aggressively brands opensource stuff.
|
| I mean, they fork it, develop it further, and give it back to
| the community. That's entirely within the spirit of open
| source!
|
| "Aggressively branding open-source stuff" would be like
| Chinese Alibaba sellers ripping off open hardware or Amazon
| redistributing PostgreSQL as an AWS SaaS offering.
| operatingthetan wrote:
| I figured someone would take issue with that, I guess my
| problem is they don't do a great job of attribution.
| kryptn wrote:
| It's the first point under Features.
|
| > Free and open-source
|
| > PrusaSlicer is based on Slic3r by Alessandro
| Ranellucci. Thanks to the strong community and a team of
| developers in Prusa Research we can continually add new
| features. Follow the development on our GitHub.
| operatingthetan wrote:
| Thanks, I was spelling it wrong in my search.
| Symbiote wrote:
| It's literally on the loading screen.
|
| https://user-
| images.githubusercontent.com/56096557/107885845...
| nathan_f77 wrote:
| I've been thinking about getting a Prusa 3D printer for a long
| time, but now I'm leaning towards a Bambu Lab X1-Carbon Combo 3D
| printer. It looks really cool and seems like a more professional
| tool. Has anyone tried both? What would you recommend?
|
| EDIT: I read some of the other comments in this thread and did
| some more research. Found some Reddit posts as well. I think I'll
| definitely go with the Bambu Lab printer.
| iLoveOncall wrote:
| I don't own either (I have an Anycubic Vyper) but the two are
| not at all in the same category. The Bambu totally outclasses
| the Prusa printers, but the price is also a lot higher.
| carterschonwald wrote:
| Core xy motion system is hands down a faster setup. Also has a
| smaller footprint for the same printable area. And enclosed
| means you can do asa and Abs and nylons as a normal think.
|
| No matter what, make sure it's in a room with an air filter and
| active ventilation. Safety matters.
|
| There's a lot of really cool open source printer designs too,
| and having an abs/asa capable machine really makes a lot more
| cool prjects possible.
|
| I got the x1cc and I've been really happy so far. My biggest
| problem was accidentally printing pla as asa and I still
| managed to make ok but weird prints
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Nice - but it's been over _a year and a half_ since preorders for
| the Prusa XL began and it _still has not shipped!!!_
|
| It is clear now that people who preordered the Prusa XL had
| availability sacrificed for the MK4. It just sucks if you've been
| waiting more than 18 months for that, only for the MK4 to get
| day-one availability before your long-awaited preorder.
| microtherion wrote:
| I don't think that's quite correct, according to Prusa, the XL
| has started shipping to customers two weeks ago, though
| presumably still in low numbers: https://blog.prusa3d.com/the-
| state-of-open-source-in-3d-prin...
|
| I'm not super happy about the wait myself, but the XL is a
| considerably more complex beast, and I'd rather see them
| getting it right than sacrificing quality to meeting some self
| imposed deadline.
| throwawayprusa wrote:
| They are drowning in cash but only hiring cheap, mediocre
| engineers. When they manage to hire enthusiasts, they either
| burn them out or leave them to their own devices without
| unifying vision or structure - as long as the owners like them.
| The culture is pure nepotism.
|
| Also, people who manufacture the printers are paid peanuts and
| are managed super strictly.
|
| Also, XL was announced because they were "feeling like they
| were not releasing for too long". Not because they felt
| inspired. Then they literally slept on it for a year.
|
| Don't expect anything special from them.
|
| Source: know people inside and from the relevant social circle.
| lardo wrote:
| Do you have any insight into why Josef Prusa's name and face
| is plastered over every square inch of everything they
| produce?
| rcarmo wrote:
| I have a Prusa MK2 clone that I recently revived with Klipper
| firmware, a cheapo Kingroon MK3S Pro that I bought to tweak a
| bit, and have been looking at getting a Bambu Labs or building a
| Voron - and either of those seems like a better investment than
| the MK4 if you can build and tweak the printer yourself.
|
| But the key thing is that the Bambu (and other upcoming Core XY
| printers) are aimed at the non-modding market and seem to be a
| much better deal overall, so I'm not sure what Prusa is going for
| here other than leveraging brand traction...
| polishdude20 wrote:
| How is the Bambu a better deal? All I'm seeing is a $1500
| printer. Is there some other model?
| Chilko wrote:
| Yes: https://store.bambulab.com/collections/3d-printer
| bittercynic wrote:
| I think they appeal to a different crowd.
|
| I built a Prusa kit, and enjoyed building it, and enjoy
| printing with it. I consider it a bit of a hobby product, and
| wouldn't recommend it to someone who isn't interested in
| learning anything about 3d printing. It works great, but you
| have to take an interest in it.
|
| For the person who just wants a consumer product, I suspect the
| Bambu might be the best option.
| StephenSmith wrote:
| Having messed with 3D printers since before the iPhone came out,
| I can confidently say My MK3 is the best printer I've owned in
| terms of value. I can only imagine that they've improved upon
| this story with the MK4.
| phkahler wrote:
| Can anyone compare FLSUN V400 to this one? I'm looking, and that
| seems to be awesome.
| belval wrote:
| Could someone explain to me what you get from paying more for a
| 3D printer like this one instead of a "basic" model?
|
| I have a Ender 3 V2 with self-leveling bed (without self-leveling
| it's not that great) and I use it a lot, enough to justify buying
| a better $1k+ printer but it's not clear what I get from spending
| that much money on it.
|
| Is it printing speed, better materials, or something else
| entirely?
| eropple wrote:
| In 2023: not a ton. Maybe some better repeatability. You're
| likely to have fewer out-of-the-box problems; they spend a lot
| on quality control.
|
| If you're just interested in the hobby, the Elegoo Neptune 3
| Pro is, for my money, a fantastic entrypoint that you can get
| for under $250. (I own the larger version, the Plus, which has
| a bigger bed and turns the fans off when not printing; it's
| sub-$350.)
|
| There's also the Sovol SV06 (and its larger Plus variant) in
| the same ballpark, though they're having some significant QC
| problems these days. It's also in the $200-$250 range. I have
| one of these too and it's pretty nice, but I have a first-run
| one before the QC problems started to rear up.
|
| The Prusa stuff is absolutely better made than the Sovol stuff
| --though the Elegoo stuff is remarkably high-quality,
| especially for the price--but frankly it is emphatically not
| _four times_ better. The delta shrinks further if (and in this
| crowd, maybe _when_ ) you install the Klipper firmware to
| replace the stock Marlin stuff; Prusa's custom Marlin builds
| are better than the competition, but Klipper beats it all
| hollow, and the performance benefits of Klipper on the SV06 and
| the Neptune 3 Pro/Plus are huge when it comes to faster
| acceleration and thus faster printing.
| jdietrich wrote:
| Reliability and speed.
|
| An Ender 3 will produce good prints if it's well tuned, but
| there are a lot of quirks to the design (mostly as a result of
| cost-cutting) that can cause problems out of the box and will
| cause problems over time. Prusa printers are far from perfect,
| but they're trusted by a lot of print farm operators to run
| 24/7 with very little attention.
|
| Modern CoreXY printers like the Bambu Lab or Voron machines are
| _crazy_ fast compared to an Ender 3, without any real
| compromise in print quality or reliability. That isn 't
| necessarily a big deal for hobbyists, but it's very useful when
| you're iterating on a design. For users who care about print
| speed, the issue is generally latency rather than throughput.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFdfYn0DTUk
| njovin wrote:
| I'm not an expert but I do own an MK3S+, from what I can tell:
|
| - OOTB ready-to-print is a big one. There's a bit of a learning
| curve to calibrating everything on the MK3S+. It took me a few
| days to get mine dialed in and I'm not one of those people
| that's looking for perfect prints, I just needed it to mostly
| work. - Touch-screen + wifi + remote printing saves on setup:
| no SD card needed. I added an OctoPi to mine to achieve similar
| but that takes some tinkering and the OctoPi performance is
| spotty. - They're claiming a 70% decrease in print times
| latenightcoding wrote:
| Prusa printers were great many years ago. in 2023 I'd recommend
| buying any cheap Chinese brand. I bought an i3 MK3S+ and it
| almost made me lose my love for 3d printing, the machine is
| clearly stuck in the past, you don't even have remote printing
| out of the box, you face as many issues as you would with a cheap
| 3d printer, but you have to pay over $1k USD and wait months to
| get one.
| ex3ndr wrote:
| super weird since it just worked for me, unlike creatility
| stuff
| mcast wrote:
| Isn't Prusa one of the few open-source companies/printers? I
| thought they were expensive because they used high-quality
| parts.
| yokoprime wrote:
| Is this satire? I have a Prusa mini, and for a 3D printer it's
| as close to "it just works" as you can get. My friend got an
| Ender3 and has spent countless hours modding it, replacing
| parts etc and he still can't print PETG reliably while I print
| in any of the "normal" materials without worry at all. The
| stories I hear about cheap Chinese printers are like my friend
| with his Ender, just dialed up to 11.
| abracadaniel wrote:
| I agree with this. Unless you love tinkering and modding, and
| don't mind spending more in the long run, a Prusa is pretty
| much the gold standard for reliability/consistency. I bought
| cheap, with the understanding that I'd be spending the money
| over time and maybe have a better machine in the end, but it
| hasn't really worked out that way. The cheap printers get
| costly pretty quickly. I've learned a lot, but it's all been
| by necessity while troubleshooting various issues that I
| wouldn't have had with a better printer. If you want to
| print, get a good printer. If you want to tinker with stepper
| motors firmware, extruders, hot ends, bed leveling sensors,
| etc, then something cheap might be a better intro. Going
| cheap got me started, but it was a much steeper learning
| curve, included a lot of frustration along the way, and was
| ultimately more costly.
| [deleted]
| makeset wrote:
| That's the opposite of my experience with i3/Mini compared to
| the Enders of the world. Cheap printers => eternal fix/mod
| hell, Prusa => still "just works."
|
| If you don't care to become a part-time 3D printer tech, and
| value your time more than a few hundred dollars vs. dozens of
| hours spent trying to get it right, buy Prusa and get printing.
| buffington wrote:
| I have an Ender 3 that just worked. I one-clicked it on
| Amazon, it arrived later that day, I unboxed it, put it
| together, then started a 16 hour PETG print that was ready
| the next morning. That printer has since printed something
| almost every day for the past year without issue.
|
| I have another Ender 3 that I upgraded. It has a Bigtreetech
| SKR Mini with a full color touch screen, a bed leveling
| sensor, and a Micro Swiss direct drive extruder. It just
| works as well, and probably doesn't benefit a ton from the
| fancy extruder or touch screen since I tend to use a web UI.
|
| I also have a Prusa MK3S+. It performs equally well to the
| Enders.
|
| For what I paid for the Prusa, I could have a 5+ Enders with
| upgraded 32bit controllers running Klipper. Or a lot of rolls
| of filament.
|
| Come to think of it, I haven't even used the Prusa in over a
| month because one of its steppers or that stepper motor
| driver is failing, skipping steps or just going rogue. I
| haven't bothered looking into it yet because the Enders are
| easily keeping up with whatever I need printed.
|
| I honestly think that when you buy a Prusa, you're buying the
| brand, and supporting a company who's founder helped shaped
| the industry we all benefit from. At least that's what I tell
| myself to justify the huge (by comparison) price difference.
| 725686 wrote:
| I have one of the first Prusas... and it sucks. It sucked from
| the very fist day. Faulty components. Material would not stick to
| the table. Warping. Miserable experience. It has been collecting
| dust ever since.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| At my work we have a Prusa mk3 as well as a $20k Markforged
| Mark2 printer, which can add carbon fibres for stiffness and
| strength. The Prusa is about as good when we don't need those
| features, similar speed and the slicer is actually better.
| qiller wrote:
| Times have changed. Never had an issue with MK3, compared to
| Ender impressions.
| kryptn wrote:
| > I have one of the first Prusas
|
| I've had two Prusa mk3s for a few years now and they've been
| excellent. No problems at all, and now Prusa is my default
| recommendation. I'd run batch jobs on them for days for
| "customers" without concern.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Yeah, old printers suck. I got my first printer in 2011. It
| sucked. New Prusas are fantastic printers and have been for a
| while.
| j-pb wrote:
| Really nice to see steady incremental improvements to an already
| solid platform! It's small stuff like no longer having to
| manually Z-Adjust, and having the print-head connected via easy
| to undo/replace connectors, that seem like small things but are
| huge time- and nerve-savers when it comes to actually running
| these things in production.
|
| Crazy to see how far Prusa has come with his stuff, I still
| remember sitting and laughing in a hacker-space with him a couple
| years ago. He is one of the few people that actually stuck to the
| open-source rep-rap philosophy even after success (fun fact: he
| has a tattoo of the open hardware logos to remember his roots).
| mzi wrote:
| They also just published a blog post[0] discussing the hardware
| equivalent of SSPL if I get it correctly.
|
| 0: https://blog.prusa3d.com/the-state-of-open-source-
| in-3d-prin...
| BoorishBears wrote:
| Prusa really needs a PR department.
|
| Getting your lunch absolutely eaten by some kickstarter
| printer in near silence, announcing the first few _minutes_
| of pre-orders for your already delayed printer will take
| months, near zero build up to the launch of the MK4...
|
| And they won't even let the win from that just sizzle a bit,
| they need to take all that heat and dump it into the murky
| depths of Open Source Licensing.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| It's a really, really bad look for them recently in my
| opinion.
|
| The Prusa XL has been over a year and a half late. We had
| to preorder it, plunk down $200 as a deposit... and wait as
| they redesigned it over and over and blamed part shortages.
| Now, out of nowhere, "MK4 - Buy Now! No Preorder!"
| BoorishBears wrote:
| They added a button to convert your XL preorder to an MK4
| order _with priority_.
|
| So they're alienating people plonking down $1,000 for a
| printer by letting people from an unrelated queue jump in
| front of them...
|
| And then shaking the faith of people who already waited
| this long for the XL. It starts to scream "we won't even
| be able to make enough XLs and would much rather you just
| forget about that".
|
| -
|
| Edit: Wow and actually something I didn't even realize,
| when the MK4 page first went up, there was no lead
| time...
|
| So that's going to be another awfully sticky situation if
| enough XL owners actually take them up on that offer.
| Suddenly new buyers who were told no lead time will end
| up being bumped further and further back, since there
| aren't two queues: Printers ship by order date, and XL
| owners will all have order dates before new buyers.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| Several of those suggestions would violate the OSHW
| definition, a definition that was endorsed by Prusa himself:
| https://freedomdefined.org/OSHW
| xnx wrote:
| Would someone explain what is notable about this? I'm not
| familiar enough with the 3D printer space to know what new
| features and capabilities are developing.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| It's the one FDM 3D printer worth buying that is being cloned
| and copied with so-so results by Chinese companies.
|
| Unlike Ender etc., Prusa is the true "just works" FDM printer
| sokoloff wrote:
| I do recommend Prusa to new 3D printing hobbyists because
| there are a lot of quality of initial experience features on
| them.
|
| That acknowledged, my (lightly modded) Ender3s, a Flashforge
| Creator clone, and an SKTank kit-built printer all also "just
| work" and, other than capability differences, use the same
| machine settings in slicer/same gcode thanks to Klipper
| macros (to the point that I'll often start a print on them in
| the basement without ever going down there and checking that
| the first layer looks okay). I'd say I'm well above 97% for
| prints work without any fuss.
| zokier wrote:
| Its more just a brand thing, Prusa was one of the early big
| names in (hobbyist) 3d printing scene. I don't think this
| printer coming from any other brand would have reached the
| front page
| precompute wrote:
| This is the truth. Prusa used to be in front of the line a
| couple of years ago, but since then they've dropped the ball
| and other manufacturers have caught up. And with much better
| open-source alternatives like Voron printers, very few people
| are ready to shell out money for Prusa printers. Plus,
| there's a big fanboy community around this brand, a lot of
| which might just be genuine shills (maybe not here on HN, but
| they do exist on reddit).
| synack wrote:
| New electronics (AVR upgraded to STM32)
|
| Lighter, stronger, faster extruder
|
| Easier to swap/maintain hotend
|
| Faster and more automated bed leveling
|
| Better stepper motors
| lvl102 wrote:
| These are nice and I have MK3 as well. However, I am doing most
| of my prints on HP MJF these days. It's so much better and the
| cost is very reasonable. FDMs are good toys that require love. A
| lot of it (which can be good and bad).
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| I too would rather print on a hundred thousand dollar plus
| printer than a one thousand dollar one.
|
| I still use Prusas for my robotics work because I can print
| multiple parts in a work day and iterate quickly. Either you
| are ordering parts and have to wait days for them to arrive, or
| your budget is very different from mine.
|
| I did work at Google X and have a few MJF parts still from
| their in house machine. They are nice, but they are in a
| totally different league. My MJF benchy sits next to my Prusa
| MK3s at home.
| [deleted]
| Symbiote wrote:
| Are you referring to a $250,000 HP MJF printer, or is there
| something else?
| zokier wrote:
| From outsider perspective (fdm) 3d printers plateaued relatively
| quickly; while the speed improvement is undoubtedly nice for
| heavy users, even at 3x speed I don't know if it is really
| transformative. Meanwhile the print quality hasn't changed really
| that much afaik? Of course being more reliable and less fiddly
| are certainly good improvements but I don't see them being
| transformative or making 3d printing conquer new areas.
| ferminaut wrote:
| If you are designing something, being able to rapidly iterate
| is great. The difference is 4-5 prints a working day vs 1-2
| prints a day.
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| The main FDM 3D printer patents expired at around the time the
| first iphone came out. I've been involved with them since those
| early days. If you ask me, the pace of improvement in
| usability, quality, reliability, and functionality of 3D
| printers has been as good if not better than smartphones. And
| it continues today. These upgrades in first-layer sensing and
| nozzle exchanges are a bigger relative improvement than the
| incremental increase in smartphone camera resolution. And the
| ecosystem of filament suppliers, G-code slicers, and 3D models
| available for download for people who don't want to do their
| own CAD has also grown.
|
| Reliability is a huge, huge deal. Back in 2009 we were dealing
| with constant nozzle jams, delamination from the print bed,
| print errors, drifting, ooze, extruder slip, and all sorts of
| other problems. You had to keep a constant eye on the printer,
| and manually tweak the G-code generation parameters to get good
| results. It's come a long way and still going.
| Filligree wrote:
| One of the things you can do with higher speeds is use a
| smaller nozzle, which translates directly to higher visual
| quality.
|
| There's also constant improvements to the algorithms; what can
| be printed in the first place. To name one, it used to be that
| anything above a 25 degree overhang would cause problems...
|
| These days 60 degrees isn't too bad, and there are experimental
| algorithms that can handle 90. Support algorithms have also
| improved dramatically lately, so we're pretty close to the
| point where any and all geometries will just work.
| sciencesama wrote:
| why is this better than ender 3 ?
| sciencesama wrote:
| why cant you just use ender 3 ?
| bmitc wrote:
| I'll have to take a look at this. I have been wanting to get my
| first printer and am willing to spend more to get one that I
| don't ever have to fuss around with, as I just want to use the
| printer and not work on it. I was heavily considering the MK3S+,
| but I had talked myself into going with a Bambu Lab printer,
| either the P1P or X1 Carbon: https://bambulab.com/en. So this new
| offering from Prusa deserves a look, but I think I am still
| leaning towards the Bambu Lab products. They have a lot of
| features.
| bufferout wrote:
| X1 owner here. Previously owned the mk3s+. Bambu is your best
| choice today and really a quantum leap in terms of performance.
| you will still need to occasionally fuss with things, mostly in
| terms of optimal slicer settings, but I still get the odd
| physical failure that requires intervention e.g. filament
| snapping in the guide tube, object seperating from the sheet
| misprint, etc.
|
| The AMS has been wonderful for me: no longer manually swapping
| out filaments, and cool tricks like automatically laying down a
| layer of easily-removed support filament between model and
| support structure.
| gattilorenz wrote:
| Not quite on topic, but I wanted to start 3D printing for a long
| time, but it feels there's a huge gap from where I am (0
| knowledge of 3D modeling and obviously 0 experience with
| printing) and where I want to get (design some custom parts that
| would make my life easier, e.g. a custom support for my Magic
| Trackpad that integrates with my keyboard).
|
| Does anyone have a good recommendation to go "from zero to hero"?
| OJFord wrote:
| For primarily functional parts like that I'd recommend the
| Prusa Mini. That's exactly the position I was in a few years
| ago, and to be honest I just jumped in, Fusion360 (for example)
| is pretty accessible if you have an engineering mindset at
| least. Clough42 has some great design through to printing
| videos on YouTube. I think I'd seen some of those, and then had
| a go at designing something I wanted, (which was easy enough
| and looked good 'on paper') and then ordered my Mini.
| donkeyd wrote:
| > a good recommendation to go "from zero to hero"
|
| Below is pretty much how I did it:
|
| Step 1:
|
| Buy an Ender 3. It's cheap and there are tons of upgrades out
| there. Start printing stuff from Printables/Thingiverse in
| order to understand how slicing and printing works. Learn the
| jargon by researching issues you run into (don't just ask on
| forums, search for yourself).
|
| Step 2:
|
| Find some upgrades for the printer through Youtube, Reddit and
| the likes. Buy (or print) them and upgrade your printer. Run
| into issues, fix them and start understanding how the entire
| thing works.
|
| Step 3:
|
| Print this [0] model and watch this [1] video on how it was
| designed. It shows really well what constraints you're working
| with when designing for 3D printing and how to work around
| them. Then, start designing your own prints in whatever CAD
| software you want to learn. I started with Fusion 360, but
| anything is fine, probably.
|
| 0: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2064269
|
| 1: https://youtu.be/mziT7KV-fRI
| Casteil wrote:
| To add a few things:
|
| - Start your journey with PLA, and small prints. PLA is the
| easiest/least fussy material to print because it doesn't tend
| to string, or warp/shrink/lift off the bed like PETG/ABS.
| Nothing's worse than having a large print fail (usually boils
| down to slicer settings, hence the need to get familiar with
| your printer via smaller prints first).
|
| - PrusaSlicer is, IMO, one of the best slicer options out
| there... works for virtually all printers and it's free/open
| source: https://github.com/prusa3d/PrusaSlicer/releases
|
| - TPU filament is AMAZING to have for functional 3d prints...
| but you need a direct drive extruder to be able to print it
| reliably. If you can afford it, shoot for an Ender with a
| direct drive extruder e.g. the S1 or S1 Pro.
|
| - Other stuff: Use Mainsail on a Raspberry Pi or similar for
| remote control/monitoring from any browser or phone
| (alternative: Creality Sonic Pad), Klipper firmware for GOING
| FAST (pressure advance setting), print mods/upgrades for your
| own printer (e.g. webcam mount, tool holders, parts cooling
| fan ducts, etc)
| codercotton wrote:
| I hope it's not against any rules... it's not as far as I know
| of, so I plugged your comment into ChatGPT:
|
| Sure, I'd be happy to help you get started with 3D printing!
| I'll break it down into a few steps, from learning the basics
| of 3D modeling to printing your first custom part.
|
| Learn the basics of 3D modeling:
|
| To start, it's important to get familiar with 3D modeling
| software. Two popular free options are Tinkercad and Blender.
|
| Tinkercad (Beginner-friendly): Tinkercad is a browser-based,
| user-friendly CAD software that helps you create 3D models
| easily. It's perfect for beginners. Tinkercad tutorial:
| https://www.tinkercad.com/learn/designs
|
| Blender (Advanced): Blender is an open-source 3D modeling
| software with a steeper learning curve but offers more advanced
| features. Blender tutorial:
| https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa1F2ddGya_-UvuAqHAks...
|
| Understand 3D printing basics: Learn about 3D printing
| technologies, materials, and the process. This will help you
| make better decisions when designing your parts.
|
| 3D Printing basics: https://www.3dhubs.com/guides/3d-printing/
|
| Choose a 3D printer:
|
| When you're ready to buy a 3D printer, consider factors like
| build volume, material compatibility, and price. A few popular
| entry-level 3D printers include:
|
| Creality Ender 3: https://www.creality.com/goods-
| detail/ender-3-3d-printer Prusa i3 MK3S:
| https://www.prusa3d.com/original-prusa-i3-mk3s
|
| Learn to prepare models for printing:
|
| Once you've designed your 3D model, you'll need to prepare it
| for printing using slicer software. This software converts your
| model into instructions for the 3D printer. Popular slicer
| software includes:
|
| Ultimaker Cura: https://ultimaker.com/software/ultimaker-cura
| PrusaSlicer: https://www.prusa3d.com/prusaslicer/
|
| Print your first project:
|
| Start with something simple to familiarize yourself with the 3D
| printing process. Then, move on to more complex projects like
| your custom Magic Trackpad support.
|
| Join online communities:
|
| Participate in online forums and communities to get advice,
| feedback, and inspiration. A few popular 3D printing
| communities include:
|
| r/3Dprinting subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/
| Thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/
|
| Follow these steps, practice regularly, and you'll be well on
| your way to becoming a 3D printing hero. Good luck!
| sf_rob wrote:
| This is good advice. Tinkercad is hardly more difficult than
| Microsoft Paint and can be easy enough to start doing some
| basic DIY modeling in an afternoon.
| donkeyd wrote:
| I don't think it is. It starts with the design phase, which
| is arguably the hardest part, especially if you have no
| clue how printers work. It's much easier to just start
| printing pre-made stuff and then learn how to design your
| own, also taking inspiration from the stuff you've already
| printed.
| Chilko wrote:
| Agreed. I'd also argue that Blender is a poor suggestion
| compared to OnShape or Fusion360, which better suited for
| this type of design.
| asveikau wrote:
| I'm just learning too, but wanted to throw in that for an HN
| audience, OpenSCAD may be intuitive for modeling. You basically
| write up models in a simple declarative programming language. I
| found this easier to get started with than more GUI based
| tools.
| mft_ wrote:
| I'm interested which GUI CAD tools you tried? I don't use it
| myself but I find Fusion 360 magnitudes more intuitive and
| capable than OpenSCAD, which I really tried to like!
| asveikau wrote:
| I was initially interested in FLOSS tooling, so one that i
| tried and also wanted to like was freecad.
|
| Haven't tried fusion 360 yet. Would stress again that I'm a
| noob.
| mft_ wrote:
| Makes sense - my experience is that FreeCAD is just
| brutally unintuitive to learn and use. (And this despite
| now being pretty competent with other parametric CAD
| packages.)
|
| I get the FLOSS preference, but this is an area which
| sadly lags far behind. If you're really keen to learn
| CAD, maybe give F360 or OnShape a go? I suspect you'll
| see a huge difference...
| grepLeigh wrote:
| I met someone building a similar trackpad! He's using a 3D
| printer to create the housing.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/113rfhm/...
|
| /r/3DPrinting has a comprehensive guide to getting started with
| 3D Printing:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/3DPrinting/wiki/gettingstarted/
|
| The designing and iterating of physical components is a learned
| skill, just like designing and iterating on software becomes
| easier with experiences. Best way to learn is to just get
| started, and have tons of fun!
| gattilorenz wrote:
| Awesome! As a side note, mounting the trackpad to my keyboard
| (at work I glued L brackets to a MS Natural keyboard, and
| plastered the keypad over) worked wonders for my RSI. I'm
| going to design a holder for my Matias Ergo Pro, eventually.
| mft_ wrote:
| 3D modelling is _the_ big learning curve, but obviously
| independent of owning a 3D printer. Running a printer (assuming
| you get a reliable model) is straightforward in comparison.
|
| Having tried most of the options there are, I'd recommend
| downloading Fusion 360 and following a few of the many online
| tutorials. While the free version is a little restricted, it's
| a high-quality parametric 3D CAD package, and to my mind is
| superior to everything else at a hobbyist price point. It's
| also faaaaaaar more approachable (IMO) and/or fully-featured
| than other free options such as OpenSCAD or FreeCAD.
|
| A few weeks of following tutorials and trying to make your own
| simple models should see you to a level where you can judge
| whether it's the right hobby for you, and therefore whether
| it's worth investing in a printer.
| jhartwig wrote:
| Zero to hero... no not really. The printing part isn't that
| hard to pick up. The designing complex models with complex
| tools is a real mother. Youtube is a good place to start with
| tools like Fusion 360.
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