[HN Gopher] Sweden starts largest military exercise in over 25 y...
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       Sweden starts largest military exercise in over 25 years
        
       Author : rntn
       Score  : 17 points
       Date   : 2023-04-17 21:51 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.dw.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.dw.com)
        
       | dbrueck wrote:
       | What a strange part of Putin's legacy.
       | 
       | I'm still hoping for de-escalation, but frankly it feels like we
       | could easily have an incident that causes things to spiral out of
       | control, a la the start of WWI.
        
         | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
         | I want to think the NATO countries are wise enough to not start
         | WW3 if they get an excuse. If a fighter jet or something gets
         | downed, it'd be in the interests of everyone to play it down.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _we could easily have an incident that causes things to
         | spiral out of control, a la the start of WWI_
         | 
         | I'm wondering if better comms and surveillance increase or
         | decrease the chances of such a trigger. I'm leaning towards the
         | latter. Mistakes can be shown to be as much, _e.g._ when a
         | Ukrainian air defence missile hit Poland. And dialog doesn 't
         | take days.
        
       | remarkEon wrote:
       | >NATO diplomats hope that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan
       | will approve Sweden's membership if he is confirmed as the next
       | head of state following the Turkish elections next month.
       | 
       | Awkward position to be in for NATO, since Erdogan has been a
       | circuitous partner to work with.
        
         | sebow wrote:
         | I think it's a pretty clear-cut view forward from the turkish
         | position: deny Sweden's ascension to NATO unless they give up
         | all PKK members, which should be feasible since they (only)
         | recently declared it to be the terrorist organization it is.
         | It's really shameful that they did not do this until recently,
         | so Turkey denying them previously is not surprising and
         | actually understandable. What i want to add is that this
         | position is gonna be taken by turkey regardless of whether
         | Erdogan wins the next elections, which i'm very doubtful of (
         | remember he campaigned on earthquake preventions, which given
         | recent events will hurt him politically).
         | 
         | Sweden will do what i've mentioned because they cannot afford
         | not to.
        
           | mrtksn wrote:
           | What's not clear-cut tho is who is a PKK member, because you
           | know, the terrorist organisations don't have very well
           | organised membership program and an audit.
           | 
           | In Turkey, anyone can be a terrorist. There's even this
           | concept of "aiding terrorist organisation even though not
           | being member of it" and aid can be anything from writing
           | article which support their cause and the support often can
           | be very broad too because you might be accused of supporting
           | a terrorist organisation of you support something like the
           | right of speaking the mother thong.
           | 
           | All the issues arise due to the difference of terror
           | definitions between Turkey and more liberal countries. In
           | Sweden you can march with the poster of Abdullah Ocalan, the
           | founder of the terrorist organisation, in Turkey you might be
           | accused of supporting terrorist even if you say Mr. Ocalan by
           | mistake(you are expected to parrot something like "baby
           | killer" or at least "head terrorist").
           | 
           | Another problem with the Turkish stance is that it's
           | inconsistent. This terrorist organisation is not formed in a
           | vacuum, it is a response to oppression on the Kurds by the
           | Turkish state and the politicians can dial down the terrorist
           | accusation down and talk about "Let's help mothers stop
           | crying and discuss the issues and find an gun free solution
           | on the issue" if it fits their current political position.
        
             | nashashmi wrote:
             | * * *
        
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       (page generated 2023-04-17 23:00 UTC)