[HN Gopher] Atari 800XL Remake
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Atari 800XL Remake
        
       Author : gtirloni
       Score  : 166 points
       Date   : 2023-04-21 12:11 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (revive-machines.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (revive-machines.com)
        
       | nickt wrote:
       | It's great to see a real SIO port, as well as USB.
       | 
       | SIO always felt ahead of its time, particularly its ability to
       | attach multiple devices to the bus.
       | 
       | Joe Decuir who did chipset design for the VCS and Amiga is well
       | known for his work on SIO, USB, Fax Modems, ITU modem standards,
       | Bluetooth. You could say his career has been a serial success! :)
        
         | EvanAnderson wrote:
         | Joe spoke about SIO being used as prior art in a patent troll
         | case re: USB. I believe it was in one of his VCF talks.
        
       | fernly wrote:
       | Have we hugged to death? "revive-machines.com refused to
       | connect."
        
       | Lolaccount wrote:
       | Man, I love this ... Atari 800xl was my first machine ...
       | 
       | Thanks, bookmarked.
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | I'd be interested if this was open hardware.
       | 
       | Otherwise, I'm better off with either buying an used Atari 800xl
       | or with miSTer.
        
       | mdswanson wrote:
       | Readers might also be interested in a MiSTer FPGA-based system to
       | emulate many hardware devices from your childhood:
       | https://www.retrorgb.com/mister.html
        
       | criddell wrote:
       | The predecessor to this, the Atari 800, is the computer I wanted
       | when I was 12. A TI-99/4A is the computer I got. It was still a
       | wonderful gift that set me up for the rest of my life.
        
         | garbagecoder wrote:
         | That's funny! I wanted an Apple ][ but my dad got me the 800xl.
         | Looking back, it makes sense. The Atari was about $100 and the
         | ][ was like $1000 and I was a little kid. I wouldn't buy my
         | kids a $1000 computer now and that's 2023 dollars!
         | 
         | But I am so glad I got the Atari. I learned BASIC, assembly,
         | and Pascal on it. I would type in games from the back of the
         | magazine. And here I am decades later!
        
         | cesaref wrote:
         | Yes indeed! I remember a store near me having B-17 bomber on
         | the original 800, with it's synthesised voices and that was a
         | glimpse into the future. I'll gloss over the ethics of a game
         | about bombing cities, sold to children, but it was a more
         | innocent age I guess.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-17_Bomber_(video_game)
        
           | plicerin wrote:
           | B-17 bomber was an Intellivision exclusive
        
             | cesaref wrote:
             | Well I never knew this. I guess the shop had an Atari 800
             | on the table and the game playing on the monitor and I put
             | them together!
        
         | retrocryptid wrote:
         | My uncle worked for TI, so we were pretty deep in the 99/4
         | world. But later in the 80s I saved my pennies and bought a
         | 600XL and later an 800XL.
         | 
         | On paper they were pretty similar, but there was definitely a
         | different "feel" between the 99/4 and Atari 8-bits. Atari went
         | to great lengths to remind people their 8-bit line were more
         | than just game consoles, but at the same time I think they had
         | the most flexible graphics systems and the best games.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | I had big player-missile graphics envy.
           | 
           | Every once in a while I find myself on eBay thinking about
           | buying the system of my childhood dreams. That would be a
           | TI-99/4A, the speech synthesizer, the peripheral expansion
           | system (with floppy drive), the memory expansion cart, and a
           | dot matrix printer. I don't pull the trigger though because I
           | know it would give me a weekend of fun and then it would sit
           | gathering dust.
        
       | justin66 wrote:
       | Atari 8-bit was a remarkable computer architecture. This is an
       | odd target for a nostalgic clone, though. There are still a lot
       | of used systems available, some lovingly restored by people who
       | really know what they're doing.
        
         | cduzz wrote:
         | I've got a pile of legacy hardware in the basement that's all
         | in some way tedious to try to use.
         | 
         | One of my sons watches "speed running" videos that spend
         | endless amounts of time discussing how mario jumps here or
         | there to put a sprite into the wrong slot resulting in a stack
         | overflow allowing a goomba to set the level counter to a weird
         | hex value. He loves to play 8 bit games on his chromebook in
         | dosbox.
         | 
         | I'd want to leave this thing in his room connected to a cheap
         | 12in hdmi monitor and a reliable USB power supply to let him
         | noodle with day and night, rather than his "has too many
         | distractions" chromebook.
        
           | justin66 wrote:
           | There's at least one fanatic who sells Atari 800XLs (and
           | other Atari systems) on eBay, and he does things like test,
           | refurbish, and update with HDMI interfaces, etc. I don't
           | disrespect what the remake folks are trying to accomplish but
           | I tend to think dealing with the refurb guy might actually be
           | a more rewarding experience, with a simpler path towards
           | getting support if it's needed.
        
       | angry_moose wrote:
       | Have there been any attempts to truly revive 8-bit hardware?
       | 
       | Every one I've seen (including this one) are some form of
       | emulation, either FPGA or software.
       | 
       | It's great, but I've always wanted a brand-new faithful
       | recreation of something like an 800 or C64.
        
         | m000 wrote:
         | An implementation with chips similar to the originals would
         | probably cost an order of magnitude more. Which would mean the
         | venture would not be financially viable.
         | 
         | Some of the challenges that would balloon the costs:
         | 
         | - Source ancient-tech components.
         | 
         | - Guarantee rights to reproduce the original board design.
         | 
         | - Make sure that everything works the same as the original,
         | down to the tiniest quirk.
         | 
         | - Interface the ancient components with modern output ports.
         | 
         | - Do everything correct the first time (updates are not
         | possible), or face hordes of angry customers.
         | 
         | - Do everything in a short timespan, or face hordes of angry
         | crowdfunding supporters/customers.
        
         | codezero wrote:
         | Ben Eater has a nice 8 bit kit that uses real chips, he also
         | has a great video series. https://eater.net/8bit/
        
         | fredoralive wrote:
         | A true replica would probably involve spending a large amount
         | of money on fabbing custom or otherwise out of production
         | silicon.
        
           | sixothree wrote:
           | Most of the replicas have that issue when it comes to PLAs.
           | They sometimes use FPGAs for those particular chips.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | You can buy new boards, cases, and components to make most of a
         | C-64.
         | 
         | I think there are just two chips that have to be replaced with
         | drop-in FPGAs: the SID, and I think the CIAs.
         | 
         | Unlike today's machines, 8-bits were usually made with mostly
         | off-the-shelf parts.
        
         | justin66 wrote:
         | > It's great, but I've always wanted a brand-new faithful
         | recreation of something like an 800 or C64.
         | 
         | I'm fairly sure a full array of replacement parts are available
         | for the C64, from the keycaps all the way down to the PCB. You
         | could build a new one for yourself, theoretically (except for
         | the 6502, etc.). I think one of the Commander X16 guys (not the
         | balding white guy, the vaguely European guy) has done something
         | like this.
        
         | diydsp wrote:
         | Fpgas can be undistinguishable from the original logic. There's
         | nothing magic abt those digital guts except slower, hotter
         | chips. You can build a c64 100% now from new parts! Only the
         | SID's analog items have to be emulated.
        
           | justin66 wrote:
           | > Fpgas can be undistinguishable from the original logic.
           | 
           | In my experience when you try to get this point across to the
           | nostalgic, you're tilting at windmills.
        
             | retrocryptid wrote:
             | The problem with you kids is you clearly didn't get enough
             | paint chips in your diet. That's probably why you tolerate
             | python.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | In that era many games depended on obscure things that the
             | logic did by chance.
        
         | Keyframe wrote:
         | Check out C64 reloaded (mk2) and ReAmiga.
        
       | Nokinside wrote:
       | When I see picture of an old computer, I remember how it smelled.
       | Very nostalgic feeling.
        
       | evo_9 wrote:
       | For my 55th Birthday last summer, I pulled my original Atari 800
       | out of storage and played Star Raiders and MULE non-stop for a
       | weekend. Great fun. The most challenging part of getting the 800
       | running was finding an old enough TV that I could connect the
       | game box too.
       | 
       | I also couldn't get my 810 disk drive working, so I found a copy
       | of MULE on eBay burned on a ROM, so that was a nice find.
       | 
       | Great old machine, I think I'll buy one of these, the addition of
       | HDMI and USB alone are worth it. Plus it'll be fun to write a
       | game on that thing, something I dabbled in as a kid and was my
       | start as a programmer so so long ago now.
        
         | michaelcampbell wrote:
         | I have such good memories of both of those games, and the first
         | Archon with the overpowered unicorn.
         | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32pAGs9AiCo)
         | 
         | Oh, also Behind Jaggi Lines and BallBlazer. (One or both of
         | those they renamed somewhere between beta and production, but I
         | had, let's say, "not quite commercial" versions of them.)
        
           | CWuestefeld wrote:
           | BallBlazer was excellent. I could never figure out what was
           | the point of Jaggi Lines (actually Rescue at Fractalus, I
           | believe).
        
             | randombits0 wrote:
             | BallBlazer/Blaster was an unreleased LucasFilms game, if I
             | remember correctly. It was leaked and so wildly pirated
             | that they didn't bother releasing it.
        
           | bobbyrullo wrote:
           | Archon might be my favorite game of all time...But what's
           | this with the overpowered unicorn? Was it way more powerful
           | than the dark side equivalent (basilisk?)? Did they release
           | another 8-bit version or something?
        
             | karmakaze wrote:
             | The unicorn was the fastest. The Basilisk was fast but not
             | quite as, and could withstand more hits. (Or maybe I'm
             | mixing it up with the bigger Serpent thing which was slow
             | but very powerful?)
             | 
             | The best is finding a unicorn on a dark square and
             | attacking it with a 'pawn' and charging it all zigzag-like.
             | A lucky club swing could kill the unicorn, result in a
             | real-world punch, and temporarily end a friendship. Stakes
             | were high in that game.
        
         | dlevine wrote:
         | I'm a bit younger than you, but I was visiting my mom a few
         | weeks back, and found my old NES in some boxes she had saved
         | for me (along with a few of the better games). Thanks to the
         | composite connector, I managed to plug it into a modern HDTV
         | and it worked just fine. My old copy of Zelda somehow even had
         | a working save battery.
         | 
         | My mom made an offhand comment like "someone isn't sleeping
         | much tonight."
         | 
         | The new games are more complex and realistic, but there is
         | still plenty of joy in those old systems and games, especially
         | for those of us who grew up with them.
        
         | lizknope wrote:
         | Are you a galactic cook or a garbage scow captain?
        
         | inoop wrote:
         | Maybe also take a look at the Mister project if you haven't
         | already. Same idea of using FPGA to reproduce old hardware but
         | broad support for many home computers, game consoles, and
         | arcade boards
        
           | evo_9 wrote:
           | Interesting, thanks for mentioning this.
           | 
           | Pretty cool
           | idea/project:https://www.theverge.com/22323002/mister-fpga-
           | project-retro-...
        
         | glonq wrote:
         | The only problem with MULE is that the theme song gets stuck in
         | your head for a week!
        
           | mdswanson wrote:
           | It just got stuck in my head for a week at the mere mention
           | of the game.
        
       | fuster wrote:
       | My first computer! Lots of fond memories. Loading programs from a
       | cassette in particular sticks in my head.
        
       | retrocryptid wrote:
       | This sorta reminds me... whenever I have a bit of free time and
       | I'm tired of commenting on HN, I daydream about what the next
       | generation of Atari or Commodore 8-bit machines would be like
       | (not STs or Amigas, but something still mostly 8 bit.)
       | 
       | I was thinking you might get a windowing system where each window
       | held a "Virtual 800XL" so you could run multiple apps
       | simultaneously, and an OS that shared peripheral access to real
       | devices. Definitely a faster SIO port. Maybe something like
       | FujiNet to communicate between virtual XLs (and other, real XLs.)
       | If I made such a beast today, it would definitely have a built-in
       | SD Card reader. Maybe a built-in trac-ball and no mouse buttons
       | since you could use the select and start buttons.
        
         | alexisread wrote:
         | You mean like the super xe?
         | https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287546-super-xe-game-machi...
         | Scoped in 1988 with Ricoh.
         | 
         | Add a gui and you have an interesting machine
         | https://youtu.be/T14dL9MeMHE
         | 
         | However, in the light of the 16bit ascendence I can see why
         | this was canned.
        
           | retrocryptid wrote:
           | Very cool!
        
         | fentonc wrote:
         | I built this! It's amazing! It's a 16-core Z80 running at 140
         | MHz: http://www.chrisfenton.com/the-zedripper-part-1/
        
           | retrocryptid wrote:
           | This is absolutely crazy! (And that's the best compliment I
           | know.)
           | 
           | You could have spent your time studying for the CISSP exam,
           | but instead you did something that made the world a more
           | beautiful place.
        
           | butterisgood wrote:
           | That's. Insane! I love it!
        
         | lonelygirl15a wrote:
         | Or one of the Foenix systems, like:
         | 
         | https://c256foenix.com/16bits-new-retro-computers/?v=7516fd4...
        
         | unwind wrote:
         | The Commander X16 [1]?
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.commanderx16.com/
        
           | retrocryptid wrote:
           | Yeah. That's pretty cool. I lived in Dallas for half my life
           | and am surprised I never ran into the 8-bit guy at 1st
           | Saturday or various users group meetings. I think we're about
           | the same age. Love his channel, didn't know he was doing
           | this. Thx for the pointer.
        
         | kabdib wrote:
         | You might have wound up with something a lot like the Apple II
         | GS.
         | 
         | (At least one Atari engineer I know worked on the IIGS.
         | Personally I thought it was crazy to work on 16-bit machines
         | when 32-bit architectures like the 68000 were just coming into
         | the marketplace).
        
           | retrocryptid wrote:
           | Yes and no. The 6502 die size was tiny compared to most 16
           | bit and all 32 bit cpus. It was ALWAYS going to be cheaper.
           | For quite some time (maybe even still) WDC had a great
           | business selling 6502 family cores matched with semi-custom
           | IO on the same die as device controllers.
           | 
           | But the IIgs was a crazy machine. My mom brought one home for
           | a couple months when the school district she worked at
           | adopted them. It was surprisingly usable, though the screen
           | resolution was a bit low.
        
             | kabdib wrote:
             | Fun fact: The Macintosh II (68020) had two 6502 processors
             | on its motherboard, somewhere in the I/O system. Originally
             | intended to do some kind of I/O acceleration, they were
             | never used by MacOS. I heard they just ran Mandlebrot-
             | generation test code.
        
               | rjsw wrote:
               | The IIfx, Quadra 900 & Quadra 950 each have two 6502
               | processors. They offload ADB processing (keyboard and
               | mouse), the floppy disk and serial ports. MacOS uses all
               | of them, NetBSD can use ADB offload.
        
             | nickt wrote:
             | I dunno. The 6502 looks pretty large with this version.
             | 
             | https://monster6502.com/
        
               | retrocryptid wrote:
               | I'm sure there's a die-shrink coming soon
        
       | CWuestefeld wrote:
       | OP mentions "USB socket for connecting external memory, such as
       | programs"
       | 
       | I wonder if that means that there will be some internal interface
       | for USB-based storage like a flash drive to be seen by the
       | computer as a floppy disk?
       | 
       | There really needs to be some way to get images of ancient disks
       | mounted through modern hardware, since 40-year-old floppies are
       | going to be very iffy, and it's pretty tough to source new floppy
       | disks to re-write to.
        
         | sixothree wrote:
         | I might be misunderstanding the question and treating you like
         | you are dumb. If so I'm sorry.
         | 
         | That has been the drive for pretty much all vintage computers
         | lately - emulating floppy or hard drives allowing them to load
         | and save disk images. I would assume and hope this USB
         | interface is similar.
         | 
         | Here are a few examples:
         | 
         | https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/
         | 
         | https://scsi.blue/
        
           | CWuestefeld wrote:
           | Yeah, I think we're in agreement. It's just that the OP
           | doesn't specifically mention this, and I think it's relevant.
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | So can it actually connect to an original floppy drive and read
       | my disks? That would be super fun! Protector II here I come!
       | Solfeggietto!
        
       | naikrovek wrote:
       | These days, lots of businesses seem to be based on Nostalgia as a
       | Service, almost.
       | 
       | Maybe it's not a new idea. I don't know.
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | One thing I've learned hanging out on vintage computer
         | communities is that you can not use your lenses to understand
         | the motivations of the folks who practice the hobby.
         | 
         | Commercial nostalgia has been around since classic cars, Happy
         | Days, and 50's diners.
         | 
         | I do know that, on the whole, this stuff is not for me, and
         | that's fine. But I still like to hang out and reminisce about
         | the time of my youth and the foundations of computing as I
         | experienced them. That said, I have a Model 100 that I can't
         | part with.
         | 
         | A friend of mine has a small collection of vintage Macs. He has
         | a very nice specimen of the G4 Cube that I dabbled with one
         | day. It's a beautiful piece of hardware. But, oh my word, is
         | that box slow. It is glacial. I don't know how good it was in
         | the day, I have to assume it was competitive, which means
         | everything we did back then was glacial, we just couldn't
         | appreciate it.
         | 
         | But it's a nice piece of sorta kinetic sculpture, and it brings
         | him joy, so who's to question that.
         | 
         | Hang out on vintage forums with folks with their racks of PDPs,
         | assortments of beige, 90's PCs, old Apples. Trying to bring
         | Windows 98 to life to play a game, connecting a pair of modems
         | to call each other, rebuilding a power supply on some garage
         | filling Data General Nova, etc. Just eclectic collectors. No
         | different from Hummel figurines.
        
         | irdc wrote:
         | I'm thinking it's a generational thing: people who grew up with
         | machines such as the Atari are now of the age where they'd like
         | to re-experience part of their youth.
        
           | hn8305823 wrote:
           | Just like the resurgence of the Shelby GT500 in 2007.
           | 
           | If you were 12 in 1969 and dreamed of owning/driving one, in
           | 2007 you were 50 with $$$ and nostalgia.
        
         | bigbillheck wrote:
         | Maybe it's just that you've aged yourself into the target
         | markets for that kind of thing.
        
         | skeeter2020 wrote:
         | The 8-bit computing renaissance has been going on for quite
         | some time. I think it's a combination of 1. the age &
         | experience of the original audience, 2. tech changes that make
         | it much easier to design, build and supply retro-inspired
         | computers and 3. the appeal of a stand-alone "computer" where
         | an individual can hold the entire design in their head without
         | massive abstractions. There's a lot of sad, negative, stupid
         | things in the world today but the state of the NEW 8-bit scene
         | is amazing. If you're a purist for original 8-bit gear it is
         | not as great.
        
           | eschneider wrote:
           | They were also a LOT of fun to program as you could really
           | learn every bit of the architecture. Being able to do
           | edit/compile on a modern box and download to something like
           | the Atari makes it a lot nicer than native development was in
           | the day. (IIRC, back in the day, some folks would cross
           | compile on DEC boxes for similar reasons.)
           | 
           | I'd probably do a lot more 8-bit work in my spare time, but
           | bare metal embedded systems scratch similar itches for me
           | and, well, folks will pay for that sorta thing. :)
        
         | jasoneckert wrote:
         | If Nostalgia as a Service is a thing, this project could be
         | considered an edge appliance for it...
        
       | drivingmenuts wrote:
       | oh, how I miss that form factor.
        
       | cstross wrote:
       | On a related theme, here's the Spectrum Next, Issue 2:
       | 
       | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spectrumnext/zx-spectru...
       | 
       | (Delayed about two years due to supply chain problems -- their
       | FPGA was back-ordered for over a year -- but due to ship in 3-6
       | months' time: the ultimate Sinclair Spectrum revival.)
        
         | DrNosferatu wrote:
         | Let's not forget the MSXVR:
         | 
         | https://msxvr.com/en/tienda/msxvr-computer/
         | 
         | (even if not FPGA-based, still pretty cool)
        
         | blame-troi wrote:
         | I've got one of the first run. It's back in the box, I was
         | always more of a Tandy guy. The RC2014 is also more my speed.
         | CPM.
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | From the description:
       | 
       | > Our engineers write code only in C and HDL languages.
       | 
       | Hooray! No Rust in this box.
        
         | retrocryptid wrote:
         | Or python. So there's a chance the code will still compile in
         | two years.
        
       | vhhn wrote:
       | Fun story.
       | 
       | My first computer too. Got it from my uncle without any manuals,
       | we spend a whole afternoon writing down a code of a game from a
       | magazine letter by letter. We thought we will just press the
       | "Start" functional key on the right side. To our surprise, sadly,
       | absolutely nothing happened! After few more hours, my dad came
       | home and it took him few guesses to finally type "RUN" in the
       | console...
        
       | c0nsumer wrote:
       | Not to take away from this thread, but here's a fun project I did
       | a few years ago to make a SD based external floppy emulator for
       | Ataris like the 800XL:
       | https://nuxx.net/wiki_archive/A/SDrive_NUXX
       | 
       | I reused an existing OSS project and sold some kits and nice
       | enclosures and stuff to make it more than a DIY PCB-based
       | project. Was fun and a nice learning experience, and it also gave
       | me a reason to start poking around with the old Atari hardware
       | that I grew up with.
        
       | garbagecoder wrote:
       | This was my first computer. Not the first one in my house, but
       | the first one that was mine.
        
       | alvarlaigna wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | eschneider wrote:
       | Ooooh, this is nice. I may have to see about getting one of these
       | when/if my Atari 400 gives up the ghost. I still have a few games
       | I like playing on it. :)
        
         | christkv wrote:
         | M.U.L.E for the money.
        
           | huslage wrote:
           | M.U.L.E. is still one of the best games ever. I played that
           | to death.
        
           | eschneider wrote:
           | M.U.L.E.'s great, but in my case it's Zaxxon (believe it or
           | not, on cassette :) and a cart version of Joust.
        
             | the_af wrote:
             | The C64 tape version of Zaxxon was the "good one", right? I
             | loved that game.
             | 
             | Believe it or not, I never played M.U.L.E. I know
             | everything about the creator and the game, and why it's a
             | landmark, but I never encountered it back in the day!
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | I keep hoping for one of the open source clones to become
           | playable, but they never seem to get that far. Someday I'll
           | have to contribute myself I guess.
        
       | tempodox wrote:
       | The 800XL was my first Atari, before the ST. It was quite
       | hackable, and within a few months I didn't need a disassembler
       | any more. I could read the 6502 instructions directly out of a
       | hex dump and could write them in hex, without an assembler (6502
       | has so few instructions, you can memorize them all). Fun times.
       | Math functions in the ROM were all operating on BCD -- there was
       | no FPU, of course.
        
       | hn8305823 wrote:
       | I always liked the original Atari 800 case design. I felt it was
       | intentionally designed to not look like a boring computer, but
       | _something_ else.
        
         | jghn wrote:
         | Then there was the Atari 400 with that awful membrane keyboard
         | :(
        
           | ihatepython wrote:
           | It was awful, but it was still better than the 2016 Macbook
           | keyboard.
        
             | retrocryptid wrote:
             | I would disagree. With an Atari 400, you knew you could
             | upgrade to a real keyboard by buying an 800. But with
             | modern mac laptops, your only option for a real keyboard is
             | an external one, but you have to also carry a usb-c to
             | usb-a adapter around to connect it. And it's hard to use as
             | a laptop with an external keyboard hanging off it.
             | 
             | I still prefer the Atari 400 membrane keyboard to the
             | chicklet keys on modern macs.
        
               | eschneider wrote:
               | You could upgrade the atari 400 to a 'real' keyboard,
               | though not a great one. It would just replace the
               | membrane keyboard.
               | 
               | And as much as I'm not a fan of the chicklet keyboards,
               | they're 100x better than the atari 400 membrane keyboard.
               | No. Contest.
        
               | ihatepython wrote:
               | Just for the record, I agree with you. I'm not sure if I
               | worded my response correctly.
               | 
               | I also think the keyboard on the Speak & Spell is better
               | than the 2016 Macbook keyboard.
        
               | retrocryptid wrote:
               | There's a nostalgia hit!                 SNS: SPELL
               | MRGHHSHFG.            Me: what?            SNS: SPELL
               | FHJFRJEBRBDN.            Me: what ARE you saying!?
               | 
               | Bit of trivia: my uncle was the executive at TI that
               | green-lit the Speak-N-Spell. I was a tad bit older than
               | the target market, but got invited to be in one of the
               | early focus groups they used to gage reaction to it. I
               | thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread and
               | saved my pennies to buy a speech synthesizer for my 99/4
               | after seeing it.
               | 
               | But yes, it had a worse keyboard than even the original
               | 99/4.
        
           | hn8305823 wrote:
           | I would say it was the worst membrane keyboard of all time
           | but the Sinclair ZX was definitely worse.
        
           | xp84 wrote:
           | Even as a 5-year-old when they let me use it in Kindergarten,
           | I knew that keyboard was garbage :D
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | I think the Atari 800 looks a bit like an IBM Selectric II
         | typewriter, made to be more sleek, like a spaceship.
         | 
         | https://www.vintage-calculators.nl/P1010274s.jpg
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atari-800-Computer-FL.jpg
        
           | rob74 wrote:
           | Now that you mention it, it does look like a typewriter!
           | Typewriters had a lid in the same spot so you could access
           | the mechanics if something got stuck. And in the space where
           | the type levers (or type ball) would be in a typewriter, the
           | Atari 800 had its cartridge and expansion slots...
        
       | aNoob7000 wrote:
       | Here's a remake of the Commodore 64. With more advanced features.
       | 
       | https://www.commanderx16.com/
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | If you are looking for a "retroremake" of the C64 that's
         | actually an ARM chip running inside a functional C64 breadbin
         | case, with working keyboard, I recommend TheC64 [1] (full size
         | version, not the Mini which is just a game console).
         | 
         | You can program in basic and assembly language with it, plus it
         | has HDMI output so no additional cables or adapters required to
         | connect it to an LCD.
         | 
         | Internally it's running a modified version of VICE.
         | 
         | [1] https://retrogames.biz/products/thec64/
        
         | christkv wrote:
         | If you are looking for a C64 remake there is https://mega65.org
        
           | Findecanor wrote:
           | The Mega65 is actually a realisation of an unreleased model
           | that only made it to prototype stage back in the day, but
           | yes, it is backwards-compatible with the C64.
        
         | skeeter2020 wrote:
         | It's more inspired by the zeitgeist of the C64, but definitely
         | not a remake.
        
         | woodrowbarlow wrote:
         | the Atari 800XL looks closer to the ultimate 64:
         | 
         | https://ultimate64.com/
         | 
         | an FPGA mainboard that can cycle-exact emulate the 6510, plus
         | various disk drives, printers, cartridges, etc., with modern
         | I/O and storage.
        
         | Aloha wrote:
         | It's not - because it cant run C64 software (outside of basic)
         | unmodified, the internal memory map and graphics hardware are
         | very different
        
           | aNoob7000 wrote:
           | You are correct, but I wonder if any new hardware is going to
           | be able to mimic the old completely.
        
             | retrocryptid wrote:
             | Somewhere I saw a project where someone made a new
             | motherboard for a 99/4A so it would fit in a mini-itx case
             | and tweaked the ROM so you could add an external PS/2
             | keyboard. After buying the board, you bought an original
             | 99/4, yanked the chips out and used them to populate the
             | new board.
             | 
             | I don't know if that really counts as "new hardware" but it
             | was an interesting idea and was supposedly very compatible.
             | 
             | Or maybe I dreamed that.
        
             | nickt wrote:
             | The Mega 65 gets pretty close, they say "highly
             | compatible".
             | 
             | https://mega65.org/
        
           | 300bps wrote:
           | It's actually pretty easy to port C64 software - both
           | Assembly and BASIC. It uses the exact same BASIC and same
           | processor family as the Commodore 64, NES, Apple II and many
           | others.
           | 
           | Memory map, graphics and sound are the biggest challenges in
           | porting because those are different. But code to translate
           | between these will get better and better. Lots of ports from
           | other systems already.
        
       | glonq wrote:
       | Super cool. I had a 130xe as a teen, but I moved around a lot
       | since then and travelled light so unfortunately it's in a
       | landfill somewhere now :(
       | 
       | I was always slightly envious of the c64 for getting more/better
       | games, but cherished my atari for some of the great titles that
       | were unique to that platform.
       | 
       | I also credit my atari for getting me online at a blazing fast
       | 300bps to some great local BBS's.
        
       | gbourne wrote:
       | The first program I ever wrote was on an Atari 800XL - in BASIC.
       | It played the theme from Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
        
       | sanity31415 wrote:
       | My parents got me an Atari 800XL for my 8th birthday in 1985. It
       | came with a very terse list of Basic commands along with a few
       | program listings from which I learned how to program.
       | 
       | Stuck with Atari over the years, through an 520STfm, and even a
       | Falcon 030 - before eventually switching to a PC running Linux in
       | the late 90s while a student.
       | 
       | Last year I went on eBay and bought one of these (I have no idea
       | where the original one ended up), was so much fun.
        
         | wintogreen74 wrote:
         | When I think about what clueless Atari execs did to the machine
         | and company, driven by ignorance and greed, it makes me really
         | mad. It was such a good machine and they were desperate to not
         | let any 3rd party make money, hence software, for it they
         | essentially killed the company (amongst other bone-headed
         | mistakes).
        
           | snvzz wrote:
           | You think Atari execs were bad? Don't even get me started
           | with Commodore.
        
         | dberg wrote:
         | dude, same! Got mine in 1985 (i was 9, not 8) and it was THE
         | machine that got me hooked on computers. BASIC coding, playing
         | Missile Command, so classic.
        
         | CWuestefeld wrote:
         | I got my 800 when I was 16, so I'm a bit older than you. I,
         | too, had a 520ST. I later added a daughterboard bringing it up
         | to a full 1MB RAM, and also make a little mod to expose a
         | composite video connector on the back panel.
         | 
         | I never met anybody who had a Falcon, though. Very cool.
        
           | randombits0 wrote:
           | The Magic Sack by David Small made your ST a Mac!
           | 
           | PC-Ditto (a NEC V20 chip on a daughter card soldered to the
           | 68000!) made your ST a PC!
           | 
           | Awesome hacker box, those STs.
        
           | BubbleRings wrote:
           | I think you mean 1M of RAM, not 1G.
        
             | CWuestefeld wrote:
             | Indeed. Corrected, while it still lets me.
        
       | bitL wrote:
       | What would be the benefit of these old clones beside learning to
       | create hardware? RPi4 can probably replace them all with
       | emulators. I'd rather see old games resurrected by improving
       | graphics through stable diffusion and increasing refresh rates.
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | i bought one of these ultra cheap when currys (dreadful uk
       | electrics store) decided it didn't want to inventory or sell them
       | any more - must have been mid-80s? yay, star raiders! very nice
       | 8-bit computer.
        
         | retrocryptid wrote:
         | I bought an 800xl explicitly to get star raiders (probably
         | around the same time, I remember it was reasonably
         | inexpensive.) I kept expecting my C64 to have something just as
         | good, and though elite was good, it wasn't star raiders good.
         | 
         | So... at least for me... Star Raiders was the Atari 8-bit
         | Killer App. (And weirdly, I came to like SynCalc a bit later.)
        
       | mikerg87 wrote:
       | hopefully it will get something similar to fujinet built in or at
       | least be able to support it
       | 
       | https://fujinet.online/
        
         | dillera wrote:
         | If it accurately emulates the SIO port and timings, FujiNet
         | will just work on it. There is no need for something
         | similar....
        
       | Keyframe wrote:
       | Nice, but so far it's only future tense text and rendered images.
       | Let's see it when it's out!
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | This is awesome, and I'd love to see more of it. Seems like Amiga
       | and Atari get all of the love (because the company is defunct),
       | but I still hold out hope that someone will make a recreated
       | Macintosh II or something.
        
       | st3ve445678 wrote:
       | I would love to see a complete modern pc wrapped in a retro
       | styled keyboard like this. With usb-c power and video output you
       | could just plug it into a monitor with one cable.
        
         | the_third_wave wrote:
         | Get a full-sized keyboard - a model M would work fine here -
         | and a laptop with a broken screen plus some assorted bits and
         | pieces. Fit the motherboard from the laptop in the keyboard
         | after making the required openings in the keyboard enclosure.
         | Hook up the power supply and a monitor and voila, a keyboard
         | PC.
        
         | mydriasis wrote:
         | Raspberry Pi 400 might be a good halfway point for you!
        
           | st3ve445678 wrote:
           | Yeah, I actually have one. Pretty cool little machine, but
           | too slow, ugly and no ssd built in.
        
         | agloe_dreams wrote:
         | I know it's not fully a modern computer, but that sounds like a
         | Pi 400 to me.
        
           | retrocryptid wrote:
           | Can confirm. Using a PI400 as my SDR rig. It does have a
           | little of the old C64/994/800 feel to it. But the keyboard is
           | pretty crappy.
        
             | wintogreen74 wrote:
             | the keyboard is loads better than the Atari 400 keyboard
             | though!
        
               | retrocryptid wrote:
               | Well, yes. That's definitely true. And I've been thinking
               | about hacking a repurchased klacky-key keyboard into my
               | PI400. It shouldn't be TOO hard.
        
         | cmiles74 wrote:
         | It's quite a bit bigger than an Atari 800XL, but I jammed a
         | whole PC in an old Mac SE case.
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmods/comments/11zqznn/jammed_new_...
        
         | donpdonp wrote:
         | you might enjoy https://cyberdeck.cafe/
        
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