[HN Gopher] Bullet Train - Rails-based SaaS framework
___________________________________________________________________
Bullet Train - Rails-based SaaS framework
Author : bauerpl
Score : 349 points
Date : 2023-04-24 13:04 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bullettrain.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (bullettrain.co)
| zaguios wrote:
| This doesn't really have the types of features I would personally
| want as someone who has done a lot of rails development in the
| past.
|
| The types of things I tend to need to set up in any modern app is
| SSO integration, React integrated on the frontend, etc... These
| are annoying things I have to integrate every time I build
| something and are more or less industry standard at this point.
| pelasaco wrote:
| > This doesn't really have the types of features I would
| personally want as someone who has done a lot of rails
| development in the past.
|
| This is relative.
|
| > React integrated on the frontend
|
| This is something that I don't want at all. Regarding the SSO,
| without reading the code, I'm sure you are able to accomplish
| it using devise (included in their framework)
| runako wrote:
| > SSO integration
|
| Devise (which BT uses for authentication) handles SSO quite
| effectively, with tons of provider support.
| itake wrote:
| But devise is only single tenant and doesn't offer a web
| admin view for managing the integration?
| Colex wrote:
| Devise does not impose anything on the number of tenants. I
| run a Rails app with multi-tenancy and SSO support with
| Devise. As someone has mentioned, although it does a lot of
| the work and it keeps well organized, you still need to do
| the UI for configuring and some backend logic.
| itake wrote:
| Devise doesn't support SSO, but it supports omniauth,
| which supports SSO, right?
|
| You certainly can write and maintain code to add multi-
| tenant sso, but since omniauth does not support any
| configuration storage, you have to add that yourself.
| zaguios wrote:
| Devise does integrate with SSO, but you still have to set
| everything up yourself for all the main providers which takes
| a good bit of time with a lot of custom frontend work needed
| and a bit of extra backend as well. It would be nice to have
| SSO out of the box without the need for a bunch of manual
| setup which was kind of the promise of this bullet train
| thing.
| tikkun wrote:
| It'd be nice if there was a way to try the demo without signing
| in.
|
| That said, this looks like a good product.
|
| Are there other similar/competing things for Rails, and are there
| other competing SaaS-in-a-box things for other frameworks?
| JLCarveth wrote:
| https://github.com/denoland/saaskit
| turnsout wrote:
| That looks great--thanks for the link!
| skinnymuch wrote:
| I wish Deno's future and popularity was more known. I'd love
| to try my next side project in Deno, but I'll probably stick
| to React/Next and maybe Rails.
| JLCarveth wrote:
| I've made a project using their Fresh framework, it was
| actually quite a nice dev experience.
| mtmail wrote:
| https://github.com/smirnov-am/awesome-saas-boilerplates
| collects such frameworks, it lists 4 for Rails.
| czue wrote:
| This is a great list, though it's not that helpful for
| comparing them with each other. There is also
| https://www.starter.place/ which includes more information
| about what features are included in each one.
|
| What's still missing is some kind of aggregated review
| service or something for these. From the outside it's still
| very difficult to tell the difference between "well-
| maintained, production-ready thing that has been used by
| hundreds of real businesses" and "some rando's app they threw
| on github / are trying to sell".
|
| There is such a huge difference in quality/maturity for many
| of these and that is literally all you are paying for. Still
| a tricky market to navigate.
| clairity wrote:
| rails has the concept of app templates, so you can create this
| for yourself. here's one step-by-step example:
| https://citizen428.net/blog/rails-quick-tips-5-create-apps-f...
|
| there are also repositories, like https://railsbytes.com/,
| where you can peruse similarly pre-composed app templates of
| varying quality.
| pgm8705 wrote:
| https://jumpstartrails.com is terrific.
| schappim wrote:
| Yup, jumpstart Pro is amazing...
| ElfinTrousers wrote:
| Kind of funny that "starting you off with all the features that
| are the same in every product" is a good description of the
| original motivation for Rails itself. Which is not criticism, the
| goalposts have moved quite a bit the past few decades.
| danpalmer wrote:
| I see your point but I think this is at a level of abstraction
| that Rails never set out to solve.
|
| Rails is arguably "technology batteries included", whereas this
| is more like "product batteries included". There are many Rails
| sites that wouldn't use these features, however there aren't
| many Rails sites that wouldn't use ActiveRecord or HTML
| rendering.
| KronisLV wrote:
| > Rails is arguably "technology batteries included", whereas
| this is more like "product batteries included".
|
| This seems like a great way to put it! At the lower level of
| abstraction, there's all of the technical stuff, but at the
| higher level of abstraction, you think more about the product
| and the business domain concepts.
| noodle wrote:
| I don't think so. This boils down to a set of already
| installed, pre-configured gems in a starter project. That's
| always how Rails has worked. When I was consulting, I had
| exactly this for myself before Bullet Train ever existed - a
| pre-configured rails repo that I just forked when I started
| something new.
|
| The thing w/ Bullet Train is that so much work is done for you,
| that if you don't like an opinion or two that they hold, you
| really should start from scratch, as tearing things out will
| just take longer. Its the downside of having so much
| integration and configuration already done.
| nickelcitymario wrote:
| >The thing w/ Bullet Train is that so much work is done for
| you, that if you don't like an opinion or two that they hold,
| you really should start from scratch, as tearing things out
| will just take longer.
|
| Not disagreeing, but wouldn't this be true of Rails itself?
| It's an opinionated framework. If you like those opinions,
| it's a great framework to use. If you don't agree with those
| opinions, you're probably better off using something else.
| noodle wrote:
| Yeah, of course. But there's a difference in things like,
| "I don't want Tailwind, I want Bootstrap" or React vs Vue;
| instead of things like I don't like Ruby or I don't like
| convention over configuration. The former set of things ARE
| decisions you can make within the framework, while the
| latter are things you can't. You can have this exact same
| conversation about most frameworks, it doesn't have to be
| just about Rails. I also had a Symphony repo set up in a
| similar way when doing consulting many years ago.
|
| Having said that, some of Rails opinions are becoming more
| optional lately.
| jacktheturtle wrote:
| How does the team behind this make money?
| mperham wrote:
| Keep scrolling down, it's on the page.
| block_dagger wrote:
| Devise? No thanks. If auth were handled by Sorcery I'd be much
| more interested.
| connordoner wrote:
| Why?
| mike_hock wrote:
| We all know what happened to the train at the end of that movie.
| 1differential wrote:
| So this seems like the Rails equivilant of JHipster - which is
| great because that's saved me weeks of development times 4-5
| years ago.
| Novex wrote:
| Anyone know of anything like this but for javascript frameworks?
| creativedg wrote:
| I was heavily inspired by Bullet Train to build
| https://nextlessjs.com using JavaScript ecosystem.
| aculver wrote:
| Check out https://usegravity.app/!
| ckluis wrote:
| saasrock.com - but it goes beyond boilerplate
| raimille1 wrote:
| I believe this is what RedwoodJS is all about:
| https://redwoodjs.com/
| Alifatisk wrote:
| Here's a chart framework for Bullet Train https://supercharts.dev
| bradhe wrote:
| Cool idea. The website is...man...a lot.
| brightball wrote:
| Is this using Hotwire?
| jack_riminton wrote:
| They seem to have their own 'reactive' way of doing it called
| Sprinkles but I don't think they've open sourced it yet
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NqjpInVIjc&t=181s
| Mystery-Machine wrote:
| I love seeing Bullet Train progress. I've never used it, but I'm
| super eager to use it if I ever get the chance.
|
| There's one more framework being built on top of Rails and I
| think worth mentioning - RailsUI: https://railsui.com/
| kareemm wrote:
| I evaluated Bullet Train last year when building an MVP for a
| client. Ended up using Jump Start Rails instead. Main reasons:
|
| 1. The hybrid approach to iOS and Android apps with JSR were
| better than what BT had to offer
|
| 2. There was a lot less to learn about the mental model of how
| JSR was built via Bullet Train. It was basically pay, pull down,
| configure, and get going with JSR. BT has things like
| SuperScaffolding, an abstraction layer on CanCanCan, etc. I
| didn't want to have to ramp up on those to decide whether they
| were better than the alternatives.
|
| YMMV of course. JSR is a paid app and IIRC BT was at the time
| too... but looks like maybe not anymore?
| andrei_says_ wrote:
| Did you end up using tailwind with jump start rails? Any way
| around it?
|
| I like the idea of jump start rails but would like to stay away
| from tailwindcss.
| minton wrote:
| I've only heard good things about tailwind. Did you have a
| bad experience with it?
| osxman wrote:
| [flagged]
| nawgz wrote:
| That's the nature of how these things go. People that like
| Tailwind praise it. People that think it's fundamentally
| bad design avoid it and don't say too much, or are drowned
| out by the people praising it.
|
| People who just write SCSS don't even think about it.
| tough wrote:
| Companies like tailwind
|
| Engineers learn to work with it due to that simple fact.
|
| It's OK tbh, and it's easily interoperable between stacks
| so not really hard to pick up and useful if your project
| already uses it.
|
| I tried to fight it at first, but I've only seen it being
| used more and more. Why fight the stream if there's no
| good reason for it?
| lowercased wrote:
| > Why fight the stream if there's no good reason for it?
|
| Why jump tool chains when you already have more than
| enough on your plate to keep up with?
|
| I watched a conference presentation last week from a
| front-end person who talked about FE design. He pulled up
| a slide on bootstrap and said "if you use bootstrap,
| everything will end up looking like twitter. your login
| page won't be able to be creative, you'll just look like
| every other login page".
|
| I had to push back at the end of the presentation with
| some BS support. I don't use it much any more, but the
| obvious misinformation about bootstrap continues in 2023,
| and it's bothersome. FWIW, the presenter said "oh yeah,
| you're right, and it can be used well, but some people
| just use the defaults".
|
| Separately, my experiences with tailwind have been less
| than exciting. Perhaps if I spent the $300+ on 'premium
| tailwind components' I'd be more on board?
|
| > easily interoperable between stacks so not really hard
| to pick up and useful if your project already uses it.
|
| And if I don't use it? I get a fair amount of pushback
| from colleagues sometimes for not jumping on the 'newest'
| things. Spoiler: I don't deploy many projects with docker
| either. Is that 'fighting' it? Or just using other
| established/tested/documented tools and proceses to get a
| job done?
| andrei_says_ wrote:
| I am the people who just write scss.
|
| For an app I may use bootstrap as it is a framework with
| bigger blocks.
| schappim wrote:
| >> "fundamentally bad design"
|
| They literally wrote the book on good design[1]
|
| [1] https://www.refactoringui.com/
| thih9 wrote:
| Why?
|
| Note, Bullet Train also uses tailwind.
| aculver wrote:
| Yes, this is true that we lean heavily into Tailwind CSS by
| default. However, when I implemented our "new" component
| system in 2021, I designed it so that there was a path
| forward for Bullet Train on vanilla CSS or Bootstrap if
| anyone wanted to implement it. I don't have any plans to do
| it myself, but people (including Tamik, the original theme
| author for Bullet Train) have expressed an interest. I'd
| love to see it happen. You can get a sense for how this
| would be possible from our theme docs at
| https://bullettrain.co/docs/themes.
| jonwinstanley wrote:
| Have you tried it on a real project? Tailwind is a huge time
| saver when compared to traditional CSS or SASS.
| nawgz wrote:
| What I really think you're saying is that Tailwind is a
| huge time saver when it comes to design, and compared to
| your past experiences translating designs to CSS it felt
| like a net win.
|
| A lot of people disagree with Tailwind's design philosophy
| on both the developer and consumer side of the code (i.e.
| DX and UI), so it's questionable what "real project" and
| "time saver" really mean; ironically, I question that your
| definition of "real project" even included a team with
| design chops.
| danjac wrote:
| I like Tailwind, but I like it precisely as a non-
| frontend person working on side projects: it lets me
| iterate quickly without a deep knowledge of CSS (while at
| the same time providing an introduction to modern CSS).
|
| I can see how that would also be a benefit to a "SAAS
| starter pack" where you have a small team wearing many
| hats, probably people with a familiarity with CSS but not
| experts. The code base in these early stage startups and
| side projects is going to be small and you want to move
| quickly. Tailwind is great at that.
|
| However if you have a frontend team of CSS experts to
| draw upon, the benefits of Tailwind are fewer and the
| downsides are greater - your CSS people will not enjoy
| having your classes named things like "px-2 py-1 rounded
| border bg-blue-800 text-white font-bold hover:bg-
| blue-500" rather than just "btn btn-primary". They can
| iterate fast anyway and they will probably leave more
| maintainable HTML and CSS/SCSS in the long run.
|
| However I'd still be interested if any large teams (with
| correspondingly large code bases) have made Tailwind work
| for them.
| thih9 wrote:
| > ironically, I question that your definition of "real
| project" even included a team with design chops
|
| "No, _you_ have never worked on a real project!" :)
|
| Both can be real projects, without quotation marks. I'm
| constantly surprised that there are so many different
| ways and processes to build a website; and people who
| think theirs is the best.
| nawgz wrote:
| Indeed, personally I would never open a conversation with
| that, but I believe this is someone gussying up their
| personal hobby project where they learned how to use a
| CSS framework into a "real project" while they denigrate
| someone else.
|
| If we're going to discard some projects as real, a pretty
| easy filter is "were multiple people required to build
| it". People who need Tailwind to provide their design
| system like Tailwind, but they are usually working on
| very small-scale projects they're unlikely to maintain
| and upgrade like a project with real users, real design,
| and multiple engineers would. And a pretty easy proxy for
| the latter type of shop is "do you have people who aren't
| even front-end engineers doing your design", and that
| commenter was displaying all those signals to me.
| akio wrote:
| > I question that your definition of "real project" even
| included a team with design chops.
|
| Do you believe that
|
| The New York Times (2023):
| https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/nytimes
|
| Shopify (2023): https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/shopify
|
| OpenAI (2023): https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/openai
|
| GitHub (2022): https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/github
|
| The Verge (2022): https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/the-
| verge
|
| Google (2022): https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/google-
| io-2022
|
| Microsoft (2022): https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/dotnet
|
| Netflix (2022): https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/netflix
|
| Mashable (2022):
| https://tailwindcss.com/showcase/mashable
|
| don't have teams with "design chops"?
|
| ----
|
| Anecdotally, I can tell you that Tailwind is heavily
| favored by shiny designery startups. Many of the best
| designed websites these days are built with Tailwind, and
| design-oriented engineers are reaching for it first.
|
| Back in 2018 I was arguing against utility classes and
| vetoing their use in projects I was involved with in
| favor of thoughtfully architected SCSS. By now in 2023
| it's clear Tailwind has earned its place in high-end UI
| development.
| nawgz wrote:
| Nice list. Did you actually look at those sites?
|
| Your first example implies "The New York Times" uses
| Tailwind. Besides that being hilarious, you click the
| link and immediately see there is a big subheading
| "Events"
|
| I have never heard of NYT "Events", so I checked out
| their page:
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/events
|
| > Do you believe that [The New York Times Events doesn't]
| have teams with "design chops"?
|
| Yes, yes I do.
|
| Not really going to bother with the rest, you're joking
| if you think these top corps meaningfully rely on this
| 2-year-old CSS framework. I exactly believe that you're
| linking me to things thrown together quickly by a
| resource-strapped team, the "Events" example merely
| affirmed it
|
| Edit: I sort of bothered
|
| * GitHub Next - splash page
|
| * Shopify - marketing page
|
| * Google IO - marketing page
|
| * Microsoft .NET - marketing page
|
| * Netflix Global Top 10 - marketing page
|
| * New York Times Events - extremely basic
|
| * OpenAI - Attention grabber, but... the homepage didn't
| even use full width of nor center content in my 1440p
| display. Not exactly a UI-driven success
|
| * Mashable, The Verge - Pretty bad websites.
|
| This is my point. People use Tailwind to slap together
| something good looking and simple. They don't use it to
| build applications because you make your own design
| system for applications.
| akio wrote:
| > They don't use it to build applications because you
| make your own design system for applications.
|
| Some examples of SaaS companies that use Tailwind on the
| application side are PlanetScale, Fly.io, Lemon Squeezy,
| and Supabase.
| nawgz wrote:
| I agree. The main uses of Tailwind are people making
| template-based pages, or putting up informational
| offerings in front of service-oriented businesses which
| give people APIs to build their own apps on.
| DANmode wrote:
| Many believe there is a direct choice between best tool
| for a type of job, and a best tool for a type of person.
|
| The right path is having tools the team is currently, or
| will be productive with, and isn't the markedly wrong
| tool for a type of job.
| schappim wrote:
| At the time, JSP was more cost-effective than Bullet Train, and
| the early adoption of Tailwind was also significant.
| yankoff wrote:
| Is Ruby on Rails still widely used?
| Alifatisk wrote:
| Yes, https://toprubycompanies.info
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Yes
| [deleted]
| volkk wrote:
| genuine question -- as opposed to what when it comes to wanting
| to launch something quickly from zero
| makestuff wrote:
| The only one that I could see competing is Django, but IMO it
| isn't as fast as rails.
| thih9 wrote:
| Fast in what sense? Dev speed, performance, or something
| else?
| makestuff wrote:
| Dev speed.
| sebastianconcpt wrote:
| The most important one at the beginning.
| makestuff wrote:
| Yeah, it is really hard to find something that can spin up a
| web app faster. Django is close, but rails is really good at
| it.
| gabereiser wrote:
| [flagged]
| Alifatisk wrote:
| Is this the competitor to https://avohq.io?
| aculver wrote:
| Not at all! You can use Bullet Train and Avo together or you
| can use them independently. Avo is the recommended admin
| library to use with Bullet Train.
| Alifatisk wrote:
| Oh okey, that's clears it up for me!
| mr_o47 wrote:
| Are there any examples of what has been built using this
| framework
|
| I would love to see them
| devmandan wrote:
| Building from scratch wastes a ton of time and I'm a big fan of
| starting with some working parts and customizing from there. I
| think with what's going on with AI it makes sense to use python
| more because all the researchers love python and make examples
| available through python notebooks. Then your tech stack is less
| split amongst many languages and there is less complexity and you
| can hire developers for cheaper. Ruby devs are fairly pricey
| because they all working in silicon valley-esque well-funded
| startups. There is a Django boilerplate provider that's really
| good https://www.saaspegasus.com/. The guy behind it, Corey, is
| very responsive. All in all, it's probably not the worst thing to
| use Ruby, as long as you use less weakly-typed javascript :P
| steve_gh wrote:
| I work in a Python shop (heavy data analytics). My experience
| is that the Python web frameworks (Django, Flask) are so much
| more cumbersome than Rails. There are arguments both for and
| against streamlining your tech stack. For me, the additional
| overhead of maintaining multiple stacks is worth it given the
| effort that goes into web app development
| sourcelabs wrote:
| This is what I've been wondering as well -- For a brand new
| project, why would anyone even consider using Rails if there's
| just a slight chance of adding ML/AI capability in the future?
| [deleted]
| vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
| [dead]
| skinkestek wrote:
| This might be a good place for a Java programmer to say thank you
| to the Rails community for your relentless mocking of Spring and
| Enterprise Java back in the days.
|
| Java is wonderful these days, and seriously I think you guys are
| a one of the major reasons why Java is so great today.
| obiefernandez wrote:
| You're welcome. Hehehe
| tinco wrote:
| Haha this comment immediately made me think of you, and here
| you are.
| obiefernandez wrote:
| Hard to believe we're coming up on 20 years soon. Crazyyyy
| wg0 wrote:
| I recall when I started even with Rails pre Rails 2.0, the
| Spring framework was a horror show. Good luck with XML plumbing
| and then annotations wiring and then dependency injection
| container and AbstractBusinessProxyFascadSingletonFactory
| whereas in contrast, Rails seems light years ahead from
| controllers to templating to ORM.
| szundi wrote:
| Why the downvotes?
| wg0 wrote:
| May be the enterprise developers don't like convention over
| configuration[0].
|
| [0]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_configuration
| ecshafer wrote:
| Spring is still awful. Play, Javalin, and other frameworks are
| leagues better. Even Spring boot isn't a great framework which
| has way too much annotation soup. Worst thing with
| Spring/Spring Boot is that the framework and ecosystem breaks
| extremely often with updates.
| skinkestek wrote:
| I use Quarkus these days which means the IDE support and
| ecosystem of Java, the very simple annotation rules from
| JavaEE, and reload times like PHP.
| davedx wrote:
| Yeah Ruby on Rails and its associated projects have had such a
| giant, positive impact on development at large.
| brightball wrote:
| And honestly, with jRuby there's no reason you can't just jump
| in this pool.
| skinkestek wrote:
| I like the Java and Kotlin languages and that I can get world
| class IDE support for them.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| RubyMine does some really great stuff to provide a great
| IDE for Ruby.
| aculver wrote:
| Wow, hi everyone! Was just about to walk over for the first day
| of RailsConf when a friend let me know we were #1 here! Honored!
|
| I'm the original creator of Bullet Train, although a number of
| people now work on it. It's been a fun journey to this point!
|
| When I first started building Bullet Train, it was a relatively
| unique offering. There weren't that many full-featured "SaaS
| starter kits" out there, although there was some prior art. The
| biggest inspiration for Bullet Train was what Laravel Spark was
| at the time. In fact, one of the guys who had got me into Rails
| in the first place had started building his next product on
| Laravel so they could take advantage of Spark!
|
| These days there are an abundance of SaaS starter kits available
| in most ecosystems. I've had the pleasure of meeting and
| interacting with the authors of a bunch of high-quality starter
| kits built in different languages and frameworks and some of them
| have told me they were inspired in part by Bullet Train. I love
| that.
|
| If you're interested in Rails and SaaS, we're running a
| conference in Athens, Greece on June 1-2 this year and we'd love
| to have you! https://railssaas.com
|
| Happy to answer any questions anyone may have!
| brightball wrote:
| The "Join the Mailing List" link on the home page is dead now
| btw.
| creativedg wrote:
| It's so amazing to see how the tech community inspires and
| learns from one another. Laravel found inspiration from Rails.
| Then, seeing Bullet Train was inspired back from the Laravel
| ecosystem with Laravel Spark.
|
| In the past, I was jealous of the Ruby ecosystem with an
| extremely large community (the grass is always greener on the
| other side?). And, thinking the JavaScript ecosystem was left
| behind, but now I am hopeful that the JavaScript ecosystem has
| finally caught up.
|
| I can totally confirm Bullet Train is an inspiration for many
| SaaS Boilerplates. I was personally inspired by Bullet Train to
| build Nextless.js [1], a Next.js based SaaS Boilerplate,
| bringing SaaS starter kits in Next.js/React/JavaScript
| ecosystem.
|
| --- [1]: https://nextlessjs.com
| michaelbuckbee wrote:
| I was privileged enough to attend Andrew's LA RailsSaas
| conference and it was outstanding.
|
| If you're in the EU running a SaaS or developing with Rails you
| should at the very least check out his upcoming one in Greece.
| pc86 wrote:
| I don't want to derail but have to ask, is the theme/template
| for your site custom? It's beautiful.
|
| Edit: To clarify I mean the marketing site linked here, not the
| starter template.
| aculver wrote:
| Thank you! This was the work of Tamik Soziev, who also
| created the original theme for Bullet Train itself. I'll make
| sure to pass on the note!
| plugin-baby wrote:
| > I don't want to derail
|
| Too late - that train's already left the station.
| yranadive wrote:
| yea @aculver, its really beautiful!
| wg0 wrote:
| If you are doing an MVP prototype or the code would be the
| client's problem once you're done with your consulting, such bulk
| boilerplate is fine.
|
| I have extensively worked with Python and Ruby in past but my
| conclusion is that even though they ramp you up in the beginning
| but as the code base grows, it becomes harder to guess deeper in
| the codebase to guess what objects you're dealing with.
| Specifically in case or Ruby/Rails, the IDE's are of not much
| help as they're guessing/brute forcing the possible suggestions
| too.
|
| The type hinting in Python is totally optional and I know you can
| have stricter linting rules and what not but I'd prefer a a
| little more statistically typed language for which I think go has
| the minimalism, won't let you over engineer. Other interesting
| promising candidates are Nim/Crystal.
|
| So I can start my SaaS on such a Rails boilerplate but it'll be
| more of a liability of keeping up with the upstream codebase and
| my own but maybe that's my lack of confidence.
| matt_s wrote:
| > to guess what objects you're dealing with
|
| I don't understand, why are you guessing? Do you mean the
| parent objects of things you've written? Like ActiveRecord,
| etc. I would think that mental overhead is the same in any
| web+CRUD+ORM type of framework.
| hu3 wrote:
| I guess what your parent poster is saying is that:
|
| without types, all you have is the variable name to guess
| what it does.
|
| IDEs help but there's only so much they can do.
| wg0 wrote:
| Yes that's what I meant. All you have is a variable and
| IDEs can't figure it all if there's no type on it.
|
| Not just that, let's say even if type is known but some of
| the methods are generated on runtime than IDE has no idea
| about it.
| fchief wrote:
| We were very happy using Jumpstart Pro and were able to stay
| connected to changes as it evolved.
| schappim wrote:
| +1 on Jumpstart Pro
| iamgopal wrote:
| Equivalent to this in Django ? With team support etc ?
| cporrast wrote:
| I've heard of Saas Pegadad [0], not a Django developer so
| haven't tried it
|
| [0] https://www.saaspegasus.com/
| rosszurowski wrote:
| I haven't used Bullet Train, but I've found their "Teams should
| be an MVP feature" blog post [1] a really great overview of how
| to model team structures in relational databases before. Worth a
| read!
|
| [1]: https://blog.bullettrain.co/teams-should-be-an-mvp-feature/
| pibefision wrote:
| I'am using another framework, but this post about Teams was
| pure light to me. Tks
| clairity wrote:
| nice! that's something i stumbled over when re-architecting a
| 2-sided marketplace (in rails) for one of my startups. the data
| model they describe is roughly what i ended up with, but it
| took some iterating to get there. the key understanding was
| that the relation table in a many-to-many relationship is not
| just a technical detail but encodes important information about
| real world systems, especially the human kind. as engineers, we
| get often get stuck on the entities being the important bits,
| but more often, the relations are where all the action is.
| colorado-codes wrote:
| Bullet Train is so great. Even for non-saas apps, the sensible
| defaults make things so much easier. Things like adding new
| webhook handlers, api routes, complex models and views are only a
| command away. It's like rails for rails.
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