[HN Gopher] Nostr ("Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays"... ___________________________________________________________________ Nostr ("Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays") - An Introduction Author : Logans_Run Score : 113 points Date : 2023-04-24 17:31 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (wiki.wellorder.net) (TXT) w3m dump (wiki.wellorder.net) | mikae1 wrote: | Can somebody recommend a free relay for kicking the tires? | leesalminen wrote: | wss://no.str.cr | mikae1 wrote: | Thanks! | djschnei wrote: | Ideally you'll connect to several relays | SnowProblem wrote: | I wish Nostr were invented 30 years ago because it seems like a | elegant protocol with room for extensions that could have served | as the backend language for Twitter, IRC, FB, and more. But | network effects are just so powerful and people post to be seen. | Twitter isn't going to willingly open the door to competitors, | and so I hope Nostr can find a few unique use cases and | communities to let it blossom. | klabb3 wrote: | I.. agree, but I don't think recreating existing platforms is a | good idea either in FOSS or commercial projects. As you say, | it's already there. | | > Network effects are just so powerful and people post to be | seen. | | Yeah, but those people aren't moving the needle anyway, so they | can be safely ignored, for now. They'll come when it gets | popular or trendy (see the recent mastodon influx). | | Current gen social media is clearly not the end-all be-all. | It's riddled with problems, both because of the business model | which incentivizes short-termism like clickbait, but also | inherent problems in the social graph, feeds, etc. We've had at | least a decade of experience to learn from the mistakes of the | giants. Maybe this sounds elitist, but whenever I see a Twitter | clone (say current gen Mastodon or Substack Notes) all I see is | a lack of creativity and courage to face novel opportunities. | neilk wrote: | > Resilience is provided by the protocol being simple enough to | implement in a weekend, in your language of choice. Platform | lock-in is impossible, since any client can republish any note to | a different relay if one misbehaves or enacts a disagreeable | policy. | | That's a wonderful sentiment but we said the same thing about the | web and email and both are effectively controlled by large | companies. | | Twitter is centralized due to being the creation of a single | company, but that's not the fundamental problem. | | The web and email got effectively centralized because distributed | protocols create problems of search, filtering, abuse, identity, | community continuity, etc. You can't easily solve them in a | distributed way, and even if you _can_, you can't easily get | everyone in the network to upgrade. Hence, providers arise that | say "We're Nostr, only better!(tm)" or "We're the best way to | find what you want on Nostr!" and they work on locking in their | customers. | | If you want to be resilient to monopolization you have to show | how you're going to solve those other problems. | leesalminen wrote: | A big topic of conversation at nostrica (nostr's first | conference) last month was how to maintain decentralization. | One of the biggest concerns was having a client or relay | provider build features outside of the protocol to gain market | share and enable them to lock-in users. | | You are correct that there is no easy solution to these | problems. There are draft NIPs that attempt to solve many of | the problems you've described. You're welcome to join us in the | conversation and work with us to try and solve these hard | problems! | | https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pulls | | PS- I don't think the web is effectively controlled by large | companies. Email is a different story though. Hopefully we can | build nostr to be more like the web than email. | oh_sigh wrote: | Maybe nostr needs a Law of Jante/tall poppy lopper - any | client or relay that gets too special gets | blacklisted/punished by all the other clients/relays (to the | extent possible through the protocol). Sorry if that is in a | NIPS, there are 84 in that link and I can't read through them | all. | Logans_Run wrote: | To be clear: I am the submitter not the author. The link is | just something I stumbled across while browsing | ReclaimTheNet. | irusensei wrote: | The identity is controlled by a cryptographic key on the client | side so even if you get kicked of a server you and whoever is | in contact with you can just grab your data from other relays. | dangoor wrote: | > The web and email got effectively centralized... | | Woah there. I don't agree with this. The web is certainly not | centralized (this is on Hacker News and not Facebook, right?) | It follows a power law distribution where you have some players | getting lots of traffic and then there are lots and lots of | small traffic sites. But it's definitely decentralized. | | _Google_ is something of a monopoly providing some of the | features you list for the web at large, but there are others | (Duck Duck Go, Bing) that are just a click away. | | Gmail took a huge share of the email market by being a better | product for the first several years of its existence (and being | free also helped). That doesn't mean email is centralized: I've | been using Fastmail for the last several years and it works | _just fine_. I don't have the problems you list. | | Anyhow, I agree with your point that a decentralized _social | network_ needs to solve the problems you're listing. I just | think the web and email are actually examples of technologies | that remain decentralized. | rektide wrote: | Here here! | | As a web developer, I think we've figured out maybe 1% of | what the web is good for & capable of. There's still so much | possibility, so many options, that _any given person_ can go | off & explore & play around with & succeed on. The field has | never been more open for, more ready for new exciting | possibilities, better set to start changing if we can make a | real authentic honest outreach to users, that is a fair shake | from tech, & not leaving cloud-giants holding all the cards & | us with a couple magic beans. | | The doom & gloom look at the macro of what the web is is | really sad. It's a constant pity party. The ability to | control & shape our information spaces to our liking & pick | our paths has never been higher, has only gotten better as | more protocols & standards, focused at purer social | networking levels than the web medium at large, have arisen. | | As a developer, it's been a one way street with us crafting | better and better means of web development and deployment | every single year, and what we're excitingly starting to see | is more genuine & personal involvement not just with creating | sites, but with creating interconnection, creating interlink, | creating intermedia, not just on one big property, but across | many voices. Nostr highlighting the idea of a relay, that who | we relay is a vote of amplification, is semi-covert social | commentary on picking your traffic, on selecting what gets to | get shared out. There's no headier better more promising time | than today (and the web continues to be the premier | delightful connectable blank slate from with which to | experiment & iterate). | drexlspivey wrote: | Email is centralized in the sense that you might run your own | server/domain but if Google decides you are bad and stops | federating with you you might as well not exist. Who are you | going to exchange mail with if most people are on Gmail? | | That's very different than Google banning your account where | you can just switch to Bing for search. | jrm4 wrote: | I think your "effectively controlled" is mostly meaningless. | | There's orders of magnitude of difference between "started off | as scattered and big companies now do a majority of the | maintenance" vs actually CENTRALIZED, like Twitter. | | My website and my email, from my domain, both exist generally | as equals without any meaningfully strong influence from google | or whatnot, e.g. censoring my website would be a practically | completely different thing from the ridiculous mess that | Twitter is becoming (if it isn't already.) | redder23 wrote: | Email is not "controlled" by large companies. People choose to | use large companies and let them read their emails because they | are stupid. Email has not evolved in any way BECAUSE its NOT | controlled by some company. If Google could, they would do even | more evil with email that "just" reading all your mails. | | To compare Twitter with email makes absolutely no sense. Yes | Twitter is a totally controlled thing by a single company, | email is not. You could say it for the web when it comes to net | neutrality and where it does not exist anymore ... | Logans_Run wrote: | Rebuttal/response to/of your comment/thought/input. From the | Wiki - | | _I ran across Nostr when I was looking for an excuse to do | some network programming. I have a thing for small standards, | and the Nostr spec was 75 lines of exactly what I was looking | for._ | cube2222 wrote: | In a similar vain, I'm curious how Bluesky[0] will pan out. The | protocol looks very cool with how much it separates and | distributes the different concerns[1] (storage, recommendations, | clients, etc.) as opposed to something "federated but fairly | monolithic" like Mastodon. | | [0]: https://blueskyweb.xyz/ | | [1]: https://atproto.com/docs | tough wrote: | I've been curious about BlueSky too, popping a lot on Twitter | lately, but it's hard to secure an invite | cube2222 wrote: | Iirc the waitlist is packed (million or so) and they've only | let in 20k so far while they're working on scaling moderation | (which is pluggable as well, I think). | | Some info in the interview by TheVerge[0]. | | [0]: https://www.theverge.com/23686778/bluesky-ceo-jay- | graber-int... | tough wrote: | Lol seems easier to get hired than invited by those | numbers, I'll join the matrix channel and see what's up | there | apsurd wrote: | > Software for chatting on the Internet should be small and fun. | | Small and fun is the magic here. There's immense product insight | in building a product experience that feels really small, | intimate. It's the counterbalance to the unwieldy scale of Big | Tech. | | We're in the natural cycle of things, I'm just saying I seem to | really get the feeling "the future is small", if that makes | sense. It's quite stressful to navigate the entire planet's | information and inventory. | CrampusDestrus wrote: | what is this obsession with products being "fun" to use? | | you know what makes chatting fun? the people I'm chatting with. | | you know what makes chatting not fun? being impeded from | chatting with the fun people. | | a chat program that has fun people and always works is the most | fun to use! | apsurd wrote: | i agree, it's fun because of the people. a product is "not | fun" when it impedes on those personal connections. like the | obvious thing of injecting ads everywhere, a product doing | that, is not fun in my view. it's infuriating | leesalminen wrote: | I feel the same way. I don't feel the need or desire to be | connected to every single person on earth through some app. I | left almost all social platforms a couple years ago (except | HN). | | I got into nostr and feel like it's almost exactly what I want | from social media. Just a reverse chronological feed of the | people I follow. | breck wrote: | What is the best Nostr web client? | jonstaab wrote: | https://coracle.social is the one I work on, and I think it's | pretty good. It does more to surface relays as a first-class | thing than most. | leesalminen wrote: | That's pretty subjective. I happen to like astral, though many | say it's too slow for them. I think a lot of people are using | coracle, snort.social, and iris. There are a lot of other ones | under active development. | dgerges wrote: | Super elegant vision. Would love this to gain traction. | eykanal wrote: | Saying "I don't want censorship" is equivalent to saying "I'm | fine with people using my tool for coffee meetups, genocide | planning, bridge club, and drug deals." It's an attempted | handwashing of moral responsibility under the cover of software | purity. | | At this point, it's pretty well documented that social media _as | a tool_ has increased young female mental illness; the question | is only "how much" [1]. To try to wave away responsibility for | this by saying "but I'm just making a tool!" is beyond | irresponsible at this point; it's morally reprehensible. | | [1]: https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/social-media-mental- | ill... | saprolino wrote: | > media _as a tool_ has increased young female mental illness | | Why should this be solved by discouraging censorship-resistant | tools? | afunctionof wrote: | [dead] | throw101010 wrote: | > "I'm fine with people using my tool for coffee meetups, | genocide planning, bridge club, and drug deals." It's an | attempted handwashing of moral responsibility under the cover | of software purity. | | None of these activities are efficiently stopped by censorship | on the largest social media platforms... so what are you | suggesting? That we continue to employ inefficient censorship | (which gets also abused all the time by governments around the | world), or do you have any actual solution? If not, this sounds | a lot like virtue signalling to me. | dahwolf wrote: | The elephant in the room here is that quite likely a large | part of content that may contribute to female mental illness | is not hateful. | | I'm of course talking about female influencers on Instagram | flexing their wealth, highly customized looks, hot | boyfriends, fancy holidays, etc. The phenomenon where a young | girl at her most vulnerable/insecure age is ranking against | this distorted image of filter-laden "expectations" is brand | new. | | My point being, there's a huge amount of content that is bad | for our mental health, yet cannot be censored because the | harm is indirect. | irusensei wrote: | Bad take. Good software has to be used by anti-abortion | activists and abortion clinics. | b3nji wrote: | Arguably, the erosion of mental health could be laid at the | feet of greedy corporations using algos to push hate, and | division for eyeballs to advertisers. | | Isn't Nostr algo free? Isn't it just a messaging service? | leesalminen wrote: | Yes, nostr is just a protocol. There is no inherent | algorithm. A client could choose to implement one and users | could then choose to just migrate to a different client | without one. All I want is a reverse chronological feed of | posts from people I follow. That's it. And right now the | nostr clients deliver that. | blueberrychpstx wrote: | Social media as a tool strikes me as the same kind of argument | as "REAL socialism hasn't been tried yet" | | It doesn't feel at all to me that there are any social media | platforms that function at all like tools but rather data | vampires attempting to addict at any cost" and so Haidt's | mention of increased suicide rate is unfortunately not at all a | surprise. | | Sorry if this sounds harsh but calling platforms in the | zeitgeist at this moment in time as tools is simply naive. | leesalminen wrote: | nostr isn't a platform though, it's a protocol. Something | closer to SMTP than to Facebook. Go build a little something | on it (there are decent libraries for popular languages at | this point which makes it easy) and see for yourself. It | doesn't feel like a platform, it feels like a tool. | scsibug wrote: | It is a tool for communication. We can build a twitter clone | on it, a chess match server, IoT messaging, etc. Nostr-the- | protocol is a proper tool. Agreed that the social aspects | built on top of it should be built with human wellbeing in | mind - not ad revenue. | | Hopefully having the nostr protocol in place lets people | iterate faster to build good social technology, and | accelerates moving past the ad/engagement focused platforms | we live with today. | mikae1 wrote: | I see a problem. I'd say a majority of the posts on Nostr are | media posts (mostly images) and the network relies on Imgur and | other image hosting services for all content. Not very | decentralized in practice. | psychlops wrote: | The problem is that a decentralized service links to a | centralized service? | mikae1 wrote: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35692399 | rektide wrote: | Is it a problem? Right now it doesn't seem to be a practical | problem. | | I agree that where we're headed, it seems like services like | this will only continually degrade, that a huge amount of the | corporate-run internet is undergoing radical #enshittification | at an alarming rate, & the nation-states have strapped | afterburners onto this hellbound-sled by starting to make the | terms of use for these already imperfect the feudal- oops i | mean corporate- data-keeps. | | New age-verification identity-verification to post stuff has | scaled up with shock & awe speeds, with Imgur just burning down | huge swarths of the internet. So I guess yeah it has become a | practical problem alraedy. | | Oh and there's other signs of horror/intensification all about. | Specs like Mobile Document Request opening up the Jevon's | paradox of making it easier to request government id online are | going to make a very shitty 203X's that greatly piss over the | internet legacy we have. https://github.com/WICG/mobile- | document-request-api/issues/6 | | But also... we have the saints of human history, | https://archive.org, ticking along doing the good deeds. The | more rag-tag ArchiveTeam folks. They keep saying it's not for | archiving, but I really hope WebPackage / WebBundle specs take | off, that we build a norm of take-away sites that we can | retain. (Caveat: right now Chrome has zero interest in letting | you use old snapshots, but I have zero faith this limited | security totalitarianism will hold, given that Certificate | Transparency lets us know that indeed this content did come | from X site at Y time & had the right cert then.) | | In general, it's all the web, so it only sort of matters that | the thing goes away. We need to update the maxim, "Cool URIs | Dont Change" (https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI). Sometimes | the resources go away. But the URI remains. And we can spread | backups, share the content, even when the hosts vanish, because | the web is so cool like that. | mikae1 wrote: | _> Is it a problem? Right now it doesn 't seem to be a | practical problem._ | | It will be the day these image hosting services die (and they | do, all the time). This setup separates the post content from | the post itself. I hope that most of us remember what a giant | mess hosting images for forums on free image hosting services | (that were later shut down) caused. | | Apparently there was a discussion just a few days ago about | Imgur deleting images that are not associated with a user | account[1]. Just imagine all the broken image embeds that | will cause... | | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35636190 | rektide wrote: | this reply feels 1 step behind my post. | | i already mentioned imgur. i already spent a while talking | through how we adapt & deal with this. i tend to think the | way forward isn't to change our user behavior or the | pattern, but to layer user-sovereign resilience atop the | web, which we already have wonderful examples of aplenty. | | the _Axioms of Web Architecture_ help us cope & iterate | with emerging situations well, are a strong start for | resilience layers. | https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Axioms.html | | and reciprocally, i'm not saying it's a solved problem | either. | anarchogeek wrote: | There's a new nip to cover the metadata for images and media | including being able to use torrents for file hosting. | | https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/94.md | leesalminen wrote: | It's weird how "decentralized" means something different to | every individual. Having the ability to choose where to host my | images is what I'd call decentralized. | kvathupo wrote: | As I understand it, the raison d'etre of nostr is to use | relays to store your data, which is presented on clients. So | if a front-end bans you, then you can grab your data off any | relay. If imgur shuts down, you're out of luck! | | Bluesky goes further with the AT protocol for more general | data and algorithms iirc | drexlspivey wrote: | Relays don't (have to) store your data, they relay in real | time via websockets. Clients should store the data if they | care about persistence | kevingadd wrote: | And as it happens, imgur is revising their TOS and deleting | a bunch of content | mikae1 wrote: | Perhaps the greatest problem with this setup is that the post | content is separate from the post itself. I hope that most of | us remember what a giant mess hosting images for forums on | free image hosting services (that were later shut down) | caused. | dekervin wrote: | I've tried using snort.social , dog testing it with the intent of | recommanding it, but it's basically unusable. Would someone have | a good web interface to recommand? | jonstaab wrote: | https://coracle.social is the client I work on. It's less well- | known, but is pretty feature-complete. | dekervin wrote: | Nice to meet you. First time I hear about coracle.social . | The main issue I had with snort is that it takes a lot of | time before taking an action into account. It's a non starter | for non-geeky people. | snuckr wrote: | I think the most usable web clients are primal.net, | coracle.social, and iris.to | leesalminen wrote: | https://www.nostr.net maintains a list of all known clients. I | am a bit partial to astral, though it is resource intensive. | You could try coracle, snort, or iris to see if they're more | your fancy. | scsibug wrote: | Nice (blog author here); just heard this showed up on the | frontpage from someone on Nostr. | | If I was writing an update to this, I'd probably point out how | much better the clients (especially mobile) have gotten, in such | a short span of time. As well as how lightning integration (zaps) | are letting us build new capabilities (instead of just cloning | twitter) that don't exist anywhere else. | Logans_Run wrote: | Glad its getting traction, it was a fun read and introduced me | to something new (tm). One issue I had about 'Zaps' was the | 'pay-to-play' aspect which seemed in discord/disharmony with | the OG vision of _Solving the Right Problems | | There is no blockchain. No proprietary social sign-in. No | "real-name policy" No distributed hash table, onion routing, | raft consensus, or peer-to-peer protocol. There is just a | method of providing simple digitally signed text, and a simple, | scalable search service._ | | I mean I get it aaannnndd 54 lines of Spec etc and there is a | need for something like you offer/describe and I'm glad to have | stumbled across the link that lead to this blog that leads to | the GH <phew!> | scsibug wrote: | Lightning already exists; so it is nice that a simple | protocol can integrate with it. I view them as complementary | - it is good that Nostr does not need crypto, but it is still | cool that they can harmonize without changing the core | protocol. | | It does solve a fundamental incentive problem of "who runs | big relays". | EGreg wrote: | How is this different than Secure Scuttlebutt? I remember | following that for a while. Dominic Tarr invented that. | | Also Dat / Hypercore from Matthias Mullie, powering Beaker | Browser | evbogue wrote: | After using Nostr a bit, I don't think there's a huge | difference between SSB and it except that Nostr has no blob | sync and they abandoned append-only logs and use different | signing key cryptography. | | Scuttlebutt just suffers from an inaccessible implementation at | the moment, but there is a team coming together to make a | working implementation again. | leesalminen wrote: | Nostr's GitHub page discusses the issues with SSB. | | https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nostr#the-problem-with-ssb... | anarchogeek wrote: | Here's a good write-up comparing SSB and Nostr. | | https://mattlorentz.com/weblog/2023/01/18/nostr-v-ssb.html | Zamicol wrote: | In my mind, key rotation is foundational, and neither system | appears to support that. | evbogue wrote: | You just generate a new key and link to it with your old | key. | packetlost wrote: | As a crypto-skeptic (lol), I _really_ like Nostr. Unfortunately, | I don 't think it will catch on until someone takes the time to | shave off the sharp technical edges and figure out spam + | identity verification. The current Nostr network is full of cult- | like bitcoin cryptobros, racist Twitter/Fediverse refugees, and | spam. Lots, and _lots_ of spam. But the technology is cool af and | could be made into something more. | fossuser wrote: | Yeah, partly why I think you need something like Urbit's ID | system to counter spam. | | Though I'm biased and just generally like the urbit approach | more. | leesalminen wrote: | I've switched over to only private and/or paid relays and don't | experience any spam whatsoever. Not that this is the best | solution to spam, but it has been effective. | packetlost wrote: | I host my own relay and it's stupid easy to set up. The | problem then becomes relay discovery, which is an almost | completely unsolved problem. I do think it will get there in | though. | [deleted] | leesalminen wrote: | Check out the gossip client [0]. They take a unique stab at | dealing with relay discovery. NIP-65 [1] also attempts to | deal with this. Hopefully clients will start implementing | this shortly. | | [0] https://github.com/mikedilger/gossip | | [1] https://github.com/nostr- | protocol/nips/blob/master/65.md | jonstaab wrote: | https://coracle.social (my web client) implements relay | discovery as well. | nine_k wrote: | I have to repeat my most important concern about Nostr from ~3 | months ago[1]: Nostr makes you forward data from strangers | unencrypted. If anything unlawful which you forward for Nostr is | ever found on your computer, or found transmitted from your | computer, you'd have fun time to explain to the authorities how | it even ended up on your machine, and why are you disseminating | it. | | Encryption is not trivially easy to introduce into this scheme, | and it can't be too seamless. It's possible though, and I | encourage the developers to work on that. | | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34529931 | Multicomp wrote: | Between this new tool and https://github.com/simplex- | chat/simplex-chat I am starting to feel like (at least from my | filter bubble) that the web may be slightly starting to think | about maybe someday turning the corner on centralized-by-default | model for building new applications. | | And/or it's just my first time seeing a complete pendulum swing | on the apocryphal mainframe-pc-mainframe-pc cycle. | meibo wrote: | Anything Jack is involved in is tainted for me until further | notice. I wouldn't even dare to touch any of his new platforms, | seeing his connections with Elon and how his judgement failed so | spectacularly with the Twitter deal - it's not worth it, just to | be sold out again when he gets bored of it or it doesn't end up | being a business. At least he admitted to it. | | I'm not saying Mastodon is the solution, but at least no one can | take it away from me at a whim or has full control over the | protocol and the app. | leesalminen wrote: | > how his judgement failed so spectacularly with the Twitter | deal | | A CEO doesn't approve an acquisition in a publicly traded | company. The Board of Directors decide. | | > or has full control over the protocol and the app. | | Jack does not have any control over the nostr protocol. | | He may arguably have some control over one of the iOS client | apps (due to him finding the dev), but that's about it. | | I was an organizer of nostrica (nostr's first conference) last | month. Yes, Jack paid for the venue, food & merch but he didn't | ask for anything in return. | | He was very humble about the whole thing. More than I thought | he would be. | meibo wrote: | > A CEO doesn't approve an acquisition in a publicly traded | company. The Board of Directors decide. | | Don't put words in my mouth. It may not entirely have been | his decision, but nobody forced him to go on Twitter to say | that he "chose him" and that he "believes it with all his | heart"[0]. You cannot possibly tell me that you think that he | was uninvolved in setting up the deal. Him being friends with | Elon for ages is public track record. | | > Jack does not have any control over the nostr protocol. | | Jack is bankrolling the founder of the protocol with more | than $240k. If you think that a SV CEO is doing that because | he wants to create a better world, good on you. If you have | any evidence that that doesn't give him any control, I'd be | happy to see it. I feel like it's valid to be a little | sceptical. | | [0] https://theprint.in/tech/jack-dorsey-says-elon-musk-is- | singu... | leesalminen wrote: | The recipient of that donation (@fiatjaf) immediately split | it 50/50 with the developer of Damus (@jb55). All | distributions have been done in public. At last check, | fiatjaf has already dispersed 70% of the donation to other | people/groups. | | fiatjaf has been a prominent developer in the Bitcoin | community for many years. Think what you may about crypto | bros, fiatjaf is not that. I've had the pleasure of working | with him a bit & have been on the receiving end of debates | with him. I've always found him to be an upstanding person | with deeply rooted ethics, even if I regularly disagree | with him. If $240k were enough to sway him to do something | he thought was wrong, Bitcoin would've been destroyed | already. | | I understand where you're coming from, though. If I didn't | know the players and hadn't followed along (on nostr) | intently throughout, I would likely have the same concerns | as you. I still do, to some extent. Though my personal | experiences and interactions with these people has helped | assuage most of it. | drexlspivey wrote: | > If $240k were enough to sway him to do something he | thought was wrong, Bitcoin would've been destroyed | already. | | How could fiatjaf destroy Bitcoin if he wanted to? He is | not even a contributor in Bitcoin Core. | irusensei wrote: | > If you have any evidence that that doesn't give him any | control, I'd be happy to see it | | Here you go: https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nostr/nips | | Not joking it's a protocol and clients decide what | standards they want to implement. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-04-24 23:00 UTC)