[HN Gopher] Linen.dev: A 500 kb Slack alternative
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Linen.dev: A 500 kb Slack alternative
        
       Author : cheeseblubber
       Score  : 270 points
       Date   : 2023-04-26 19:00 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.linen.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.linen.dev)
        
       | stavros wrote:
       | Not to take away from Linen, it seems great, but whenever I see
       | new chat software I lament the fact that Zulip isn't more
       | popular. It's super fast, and its threading model is amazing.
       | 
       | Zulip is the only software I've found where you can catch up on
       | weeks of conversation extremely quickly. It's fantastic. I never
       | felt that I lost messages, unlike Slack, and it's very
       | responsive, again unlike Slack.
        
         | tinyhouse wrote:
         | The main problem with Zulip is that I always end up messaging
         | in the wrong channel without noticing.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | Hmm, really? How come? That never happened to me, I don't
           | think.
        
       | CoolGuySteve wrote:
       | 500KB seems to be the bundle size, how much RAM does the client
       | use?
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | At https://www.linen.dev/s/linen
         | 
         | Page open:
         | 
         | Firefox: 18.5MB
         | 
         | Chrome: 12.1MB
         | 
         | After browsing:
         | 
         | Firefox: 27.14MB
         | 
         | Chrome: 11.7MB
        
           | codedokode wrote:
           | You must probably be using 16-bit computer because on my
           | x86_64 system Firefox's about:processes tab shows 45-65 Mb of
           | RAM usage after opening this page and scrolling. And
           | Firefox's builtin tools tend to show smaller number than real
           | usage: htop shows use of 85 Mb of PSS (proportional set size,
           | that properly accounts for pages shared between processes).
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Or you must be measuring something more than just the
             | memory Linen uses, like measuring how much memory the tab
             | itself takes, which is Firefox + the application.
             | 
             | Doing a heap snapshot will give you a better view of the
             | page memory usage in isolation, without involving the
             | browser itself.
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | FYI - this is a VC backed project.
       | 
       | Expect this to become a paid offering at some point.
        
         | cheeseblubber wrote:
         | We do have a paid offering. Basically it's free on Linen's
         | domain for public communities and we let you host on your
         | domain like: https://archive.pulumi.com/
         | https://linen.prefect.io/ https://slack-chats.kotlinlang.org/
        
           | urbandw311er wrote:
           | And you guarantee in writing that this pricing structure will
           | never change?
        
             | wg0 wrote:
             | VC game will get crazy. Most VC backed products will have
             | their end day like Twitter has almost.
             | 
             | Initial and middle Investors kept passing the pie to the
             | next bigger fool and the last bigger fool is now stuck with
             | a very expensive web property desperate to recoup the
             | investment let alone a 10x return.
             | 
             | Sounds like a Bitcoin food chain.
             | 
             | And then - aggressive monitization, price hikes staff cuts,
             | SLAs adjustments etc.
        
               | MichaelZuo wrote:
               | I doubt it, VC firms and their principals have a
               | reputation, and the community is not so big that they can
               | endlessly pass the buck like this, without suffering
               | consequences.
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | That wouldn't mean anything the moment they get bought.
        
       | IceWreck wrote:
       | I love that its google searchable which fixes the "knowledge-loss
       | after afew days" problem.
        
       | gigel82 wrote:
       | I like Mattermost and Zulip: they have paid plans, but are also
       | fully open source / self hostable, so you know your data stays
       | with you if that's what you want.
        
       | alexdanilowicz wrote:
       | A lot of people already "live" in Slack (i.e., slack has a
       | 'network effect', same with Discord) and so naturally I think
       | people are more likely to engage with my community on a tool they
       | are using because of work (their company is on slack). How does
       | Linen think about addressing that concern?
       | 
       | disclaimer: OSS founder here that cares a lot about managing
       | community!
        
         | cheeseblubber wrote:
         | Sure thing! We support a two way sync between Slack and Discord
         | so using Linen doesn't mean you have to migrate off of either.
         | The end goal here is that we eventually build enough features
         | that more and more people would prefer Linen in the long term.
         | 
         | We think that there is a better chat app out there that isn't
         | built yet that handles things like: 1. A non chaotic
         | notification system. Slack and Discord stresses me out. We want
         | to introduce things like !mentions which sends you a push
         | notification and @mention notifies you but doesn't interrupt
         | you. 2. Better thread and content management. Things can get
         | messy in Slack and that you can't find information. We give you
         | ability to move threads and messages around to help organize
         | that and we want to do more to help people find content. 3.
         | More power user features: Slack is probably the most used app
         | for a lot of us and I don't think it is optimized for
         | individual productivity. We want to build something that is
         | designed for our productivity. Something along the lines of
         | Linear or Superhuman.
        
       | TheFreim wrote:
       | Are third party clients allowed? One thing that has made me avoid
       | discord and most of these sorts of chat apps is that they really
       | hate users having customized clients. There's a lot of cool
       | features that people have made for unauthorized discord client
       | modifications which are technically forbidden which is not ideal.
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | modern web development:
       | 
       | find small packages for pagespeed metrics
       | 
       | serve 100mb of ads and analytics
        
       | Eduard wrote:
       | Ah yes, highlight.js. One innocent                 import hljs
       | from 'highlight.js';
       | 
       | pulls in over a Megabyte of hundreds of programming language
       | syntax definitions.
       | 
       | Do you really need Mathematica, "ISBL", and "GML" -- or would a
       | curated list of popular programming languages such as Python,
       | Java, JavaScript, and HTML ("xml.js" ) be enough? This results in
       | a massive reduction down to ~70 kilobytes.
       | 
       | Even better: load this reduced size of highlight.js only on
       | demand, leveraging Webpack's "import(..) to webpack chunk"
       | mechanism:                 const getHighlightJs = async
       | function() {         let result;         if (window.hljs) {
       | result = window.hljs;         }         else {           result =
       | (await import('highlight.js/lib/core')).default;
       | const javascript = (await
       | import('highlight.js/lib/languages/javascript')).default;
       | result.registerLanguage('javascript', javascript);
       | const xml = (await
       | import('highlight.js/lib/languages/xml')).default;
       | result.registerLanguage('xml', xml);           // xml provides
       | html/html5 highlighting                      window.hljs =
       | result;         }         return result;       };
       | const lazyHighlightAll = async function() {         let result =
       | null;         // see https://highlightjs.org/usage/         //
       | highlight.js's hljs.highlightAll() matches on 'pre > code'
       | const hasHighlightableCode = document.querySelector('pre > code')
       | ? true : false;         if (hasHighlightableCode) {
       | const hljs = await getHighlightJs();
       | hljs.highlightAll();           result = hljs;         }
       | return result;       };
       | document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', function() {
       | lazyHighlightAll();       });
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Hightlight.js basically have two main modes of usage:
         | 
         | The one you complain about is specifically about importing
         | everything, because that's what the user wants in that case,
         | importing it like that signals that that's what the user wants.
         | 
         | Otherwise you can do the following:                   import
         | hljs from 'highlight.js/lib/core';         import javascript
         | from 'highlight.js/lib/languages/javascript';
         | hljs.registerLanguage('javascript', javascript);
         | 
         | Maybe the defaults should be different, but a 30 second read of
         | the most basic information available in the repository would
         | reveal how you can use it the way you want too, without any
         | complication that the rest of your comment seems to want to
         | introduce.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Wouldn't it be possible to make an IRC client+server that's a
       | perfect clone of Slack? I guess you'd need a SIP plugin for
       | huddles.
        
         | Minor49er wrote:
         | You would also need to modify both the server and client to
         | handle things like special roles and permissions, invitations,
         | embeds, file hosting, chat history retention, chat search,
         | threads, and custom reacts, to name a few differences
        
       | dpcx wrote:
       | How does this compare to Ripcord[0]? Granted there haven't been
       | any new releases of Ripcord in a couple of years, it's super
       | lightweight and mostly perfect for my uses.
       | 
       | [0]: https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | > Ripcord is a desktop chat client for group-centric service
         | 
         | apples and oranges?
         | 
         | Also, I seem to recall there was some drama about if one used
         | Ripcord against a Discord server, it resulted in your account
         | getting banned
        
           | raphman wrote:
           | IIRC, ripcord works perfectly fine as a Discord client (used
           | it myself for some time) - but if you have ripcord and
           | Discord clients running at the same time, logged into the
           | same account, Discord's anti-spam measures are triggered, and
           | your account gets banned. Discord support refused to
           | reactivate my account, so I had to pester the Discord
           | security lead on Twitter - who was so nice to reactivate it.
        
           | dpcx wrote:
           | I misunderstood both the title of this post _and_ the
           | headline of the article. I thought linen.dev was a chat
           | client!
        
       | palijer wrote:
       | While the optimization is cool and an interesting read - it's
       | interesting to call this a "Slack alternative" when there are
       | only a couple similarities between the products in that they have
       | people sending text messages to channels.
       | 
       | This is more of an IRC/forum alternative to me (which Slack
       | originally was) until it is possible to use Linen instead of
       | Slack.
       | 
       | Or just as a Slack plugin for the public Google search aspect -
       | but this is absolutely incorrect to call it a Slack alternative
       | for anyone who is using Slack as Slack. Things video/screen
       | sharing/drawing huddles, integrations, SSO and permissions,
       | slackbot, OCR search, notification settings etc aren't just a
       | different of features - it makes it a different platform and tool
       | entirely and solve different problems.
        
         | RicoElectrico wrote:
         | Honestly "alternative" should be a taboo word for most OSS
         | projects, as it is overselling stuff. Manage expectations.
        
       | mdaniel wrote:
       | the Show HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33248488 and
       | there was another thread last year for their main domain
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31494908
       | 
       | I wish all the locked away Slack communities would use Linen[1]
       | because there are so many nuggets of bug-fixery buried in Slack
       | that will age off or never be found in the horrors of Slack
       | search
       | 
       | 1: I really wish they'd just stop using Slack entirely since
       | Zulip is open source _and_ bundles this  "allow search engine
       | indexing" built-in, but I think that ship has sailed
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | Tell me more about Zulip?
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | Unfortunately for Zulip, it's one of those things that you
           | have to experience to understand how great it is. I can tell
           | you all about its speed, its great UX, about how easy the
           | threading model makes discourse, about how it's open source,
           | about how it's a joy to navigate, etc.
           | 
           | Nothing sounds like that big a deal unless you seriously try
           | it in a company setting. I tried it once and there's no going
           | back, I miss it every time I have to use Slack or Discord.
        
           | breck wrote:
           | Recently I saw that the Rust dev community is using Zulip:
           | https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/
           | 
           | I haven't used it yet, but in general excited by projects
           | like Linen and Zulip. I hate Slack and Discord (I love the
           | web, deep links, and indexability/searchability)
        
           | ctvo wrote:
           | https://www.google.com/search?q=Zulip
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | Hey, glad you found information that works for you!
             | 
             | In my experience, Google search results are poor these
             | days, prioritizing esoterica or blogspam instead of useful
             | insights due to decades of SEO battles. I prefer to hear
             | what folks I'm directly interacting with are saying when
             | they make a recommendation instead of jumping to the old
             | "LMGTFY" silliness we all smugly passed to others circa
             | 2008 who forgot to RTFM/RTA.
        
           | dsr_ wrote:
           | It's everything you want in a threaded chat server except
           | federation.
           | 
           | Web client is responsive and has good shortcuts.
           | 
           | Easy-ish to self-host, cheap to buy hosted.
           | 
           | Configurable privacy.
           | 
           | Integration with all sorts of stuff, including email.
           | 
           | A little lacking in community moderation tools.
           | 
           | Text-mode client works acceptably well over a low-ish
           | bandwidth connection.
           | 
           | IOS and Android clients.
           | 
           | Open source.
        
             | switch007 wrote:
             | It's also a clean, large, modern, type hinted Django
             | project which is useful for learning Django
        
             | dsr_ wrote:
             | And the killer is this:
             | 
             | We had an IRC server. IT and Ops used it.
             | 
             | We moved to ejabberd. IT, Ops, and a couple of devs used
             | it. Not all.
             | 
             | We moved to Zulip. Everyone in the company uses it.
        
             | mdaniel wrote:
             | > Easy-ish to self-host, cheap to buy hosted.
             | 
             | And, perhaps most relevant to my complaint, they offer
             | hosting for open source projects (unlike Mattermost which
             | is ... like, "send us email and we'll think about it" or
             | something). I would guess Mattermost would feel the most
             | comfortabe to Slack users, since I admit that Zulip has a
             | different mental model than Slack, but I believe it is much
             | better for ongoing thread management once one gets used to
             | it (IOW, had they won the fight, it would be Slack that
             | would be the "eww, what is going on with this threading
             | model?!")
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | https://github.com/zulip/zulip#readme (Apache 2!) just as a
             | contrast to the sibling's LMGTFY comment :-(
        
               | ghostpepper wrote:
               | I think Slack has realised there are shortcomings in
               | their threading as I just noticed today in the iOS app
               | that there is an option to re-join a threaded comment
               | back to the main channel after it's been sent to a
               | thread.
        
             | ghostpepper wrote:
             | The functionality is amazing but the UX/UI is not polished
             | to the level of a commercial product like Slack or Discord
             | (or Twitter, which it is arguably more comparable to)
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | I disagree, the UX definitely is very polished, and much
               | better than Slack. The UI, yes, I agree, though I find it
               | very clean and functional.
        
         | kodah wrote:
         | I personally don't think Slack is a great product for open
         | communities. While I don't think they're actively hostile to
         | open communities it's certainly not their priority from a
         | feature perspective. In my view, Slack is an _enterprise_
         | product, and Discord is more of a commercial product. It 's
         | very difficult to be both and gain necessary market share.
         | 
         | There's also the tangential fact that open source shouldn't be
         | relying on proprietary communication protocols that are
         | difficult to migrate away from or make it difficult to maintain
         | anonymity.
        
         | pcthrowaway wrote:
         | > here are so many nuggets of bug-fixery buried in Slack that
         | will age off or never be found in the horrors of Slack search
         | 
         | Do people consider Slack search subpar?
         | 
         | I haven't used a chat app with a better one. Discord is abysmal
         | by comparison
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | How's the search? Our company moved to self hosted Rocket Chat
       | from Slack a while ago, and while it's acceptable in general, the
       | search is literally the worst search I've ever used in anything
       | ever. Can't even find an exact match in the currently opened
       | thread.
        
         | chatmasta wrote:
         | We're happy with Mattermost, and search is quite good.
        
         | dexterdog wrote:
         | Even worse than slack's search?
        
       | thex10 wrote:
       | Not enough discussion here of the parts under "Our Optimization
       | Strategies", which was the most interesting to me. Assorted
       | reactions:
       | 
       | > We found that react-icons had an issue that lead to everything
       | being imported. This meant that we were including every single
       | react-icon in our package whether we need it or not.
       | 
       | Kudos to the Linen team for proactively finding this - I have a
       | feeling tons of projects blindly trust that tree-shaking their
       | dependencies will "just work" even though for many libraries it
       | won't!
       | 
       | > We also noticed that we were only using AWS client for s3
       | upload on the client side and it was taking up significantly more
       | bundle size we need so we replaced the entire client side package
       | with a 2 api calls to the AWS api.
       | 
       | For such a minimal use case, this feels like a logical choice
       | even if it's slightly more work to implement.
       | 
       | > We ended up moving the code highlight code to a backend api
       | that would cache the results.
       | 
       | Love seeing websites make smart choices about which work to
       | handle in the server versus the client.
        
         | MuffinFlavored wrote:
         | > tree-shaking their dependencies
         | 
         | What tool did they use: Browserify, Webpack, Gulp, Rollup,
         | Babel, Parcel, ESBuild, etc.
        
           | billiam wrote:
           | It appears that they used Webpack, which I found interesting
           | given other alternatives.
        
             | SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
             | The UI package appears to use Rollup.
             | 
             | And this looks like the PR for the icons update:
             | https://github.com/Linen-dev/linen.dev/pull/1001
        
               | MuffinFlavored wrote:
               | they had to change every import for an icon in 60 files.
               | Wouldn't it have been better if a PR was done against
               | Rollup to fix this "bug"? probably much more
               | difficult/not possible?
        
               | __ryan__ wrote:
               | A commuter typically takes a free public bus ride to
               | work. The bus broke down this morning. The commuter had
               | to go out of their way to take a different bus to get to
               | work. Wouldn't it have been better if they stayed and
               | fixed the first bus?
        
               | MuffinFlavored wrote:
               | I get the proverb but you have to admit that it's kind of
               | a big deal that a tree-shaker bundler optimizer has a
               | pretty big glaring known broken issue with it where it
               | doesn't bundle.
               | 
               | The bus gets fixed eventually. This doesn't (unless
               | somebody fixes it).
        
               | WorldMaker wrote:
               | It may not be a "bug" in rollup.
               | 
               | Unfortunately, the current state of ESM in Node is such a
               | mess that you can't assume most packages are tree-
               | shakeable. There is package.json metadata to do that.
               | 
               | It's more likely to be a "simple" bug (with far reaching
               | consequences) in react-icons' package.json and/or build
               | process.
               | 
               | Taking a quick glance at https://github.com/react-
               | icons/react-icons/blob/master/packa...
               | 
               | Yeah, it's using the old non-standardized "module" field
               | as opposed to the modern and mostly standard ( _now_ at
               | least)  "exports" field [1] or "type" field.
               | 
               | "exports" would be a quick fix of the existing
               | package.json file with no other changes to the build
               | process, but given this is a UI package intended
               | primarily for browser usage I'm having a hard time
               | understanding why it bothers to include CommonJS _at all_
               | and isn 't just `"type": "module"` and remove CommonJS
               | from the build entirely.
               | 
               | That probably points to why this hasn't been done yet: it
               | gets into a bikeshed argument and a lot of potential
               | discussion on big changes to a presumably "not broke"
               | build system.
               | 
               | [1] https://nodejs.org/api/packages.html#packages_exports
               | 
               | (ETA: Existing Issue on this subject in that repo:
               | https://github.com/react-icons/react-icons/issues/717)
        
         | _fat_santa wrote:
         | With icons, I've stopped using icon libraries a while back and
         | now import just the SVG code that I need. I'm a big fan of Hero
         | Icons[1] and they offer a way to quickly copy JSX or SVG code
         | to the clipboard to faciliate this workflow.
         | 
         | [1]: https://heroicons.com/
        
           | riidom wrote:
           | Additional shoutout to https://github.com/tabler/tabler-icons
        
         | andrewxdiamond wrote:
         | FYI there is a middle ground with the AWS SDK. If you don't
         | need the entire thing (you certainly do not), you can import
         | product specific SDKs as standalone. Still quite a bit fatter
         | than building your own HTTP client, but it's an easy win if you
         | already use the SDK.
         | 
         | ex, an s3 only Java sdk:
         | 
         | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35591248/aws-sdk-for-s3-...
        
         | MichaelZuo wrote:
         | > Love seeing websites make smart choices about which work to
         | handle in the server versus the client.
         | 
         | The intro community discussion page at
         | https://www.linen.dev/s/linen does need to load 20+ javascript
         | files for some reason to show the latest messages.
         | 
         | Whereas messages still show up even if javascript is entirely
         | blocked, just starting from the beginning in 10/2022 (?).
         | 
         | So I'm not quite sure if it's as optimized as it can be.
        
       | lagrange77 wrote:
       | Looks really cool and promising, i think i will give it a try!
       | 
       | I found a 'typo':
       | 
       | > Get branded colors and logos of your community or company. Your
       | community should feel like yours and not
       | 
       | The sentence does not
        
       | s1k3s wrote:
       | Another one: Rocket, a self hosted open source alternative:
       | https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat
        
       | anyfactor wrote:
       | We actively evaluated Linen in launching our community. Although,
       | we went with discourse as we are going for a forum type community
       | platform but Linen certainly has fantastic potential.
       | 
       | One very minor friction point with Linen was, it needs to be a
       | bit transparent about their pricing for business tier. I don't
       | think "contact us" pricing strategy is the perfect fit Linen's
       | target audience.
        
         | sideproject wrote:
         | I've recently launched HN+
         | 
         | https://www.hn.plus
         | 
         | For anyone interested in HN-type forums (with lots of other
         | features we've built)
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | Hmm, I feel like this could do with a different colored top
           | bar. Making it look exactly like HN makes me feel more like
           | 'why not use HN then'?
        
             | nonethewiser wrote:
             | Well for one, you can't moderate hackernews
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > Love HackerNews? HN+ includes everything you love about HN
           | to start your own.
           | 
           | Obviously HN+ is missing the single most important thing
           | about HN, the users.
           | 
           | Also, did you really have to steal the name too? Would
           | probably been better off if you called it something
           | different.
           | 
           | By the way, you should read your own terms of service and
           | maybe start following it yourself if you ask others to follow
           | it too?
           | 
           | > Your site is not getting advertised via unwanted electronic
           | messages such as spam links on newsgroups, email lists, other
           | forums and web sites, and similar unsolicited promotional
           | methods;
           | 
           | > Your site is not named in a manner that misleads your
           | readers into thinking that you are another person or company.
           | For example, your site's URL or name is not the name of a
           | person other than yourself or company other than your own;
           | and
        
         | cheeseblubber wrote:
         | Sorry about that. It was a vestige of Linen's first version
         | being very Enterpise sales heavy and we haven't updated it. At
         | the moment it is 150/month for 5000 members for our paid tier
         | and 50/month more for every 5000. Will update it this week!
         | 
         | We just shipped our self checkout flow last week:
         | https://github.com/Linen-dev/linen.dev/commit/61c482cab5d5aa...
         | 
         | Just hadn't got the chance to update it on the landing page yet
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | Reasonable for enterprise, but that's pretty high for my
           | tranche in small business. Any possibility of matching Slack
           | pricing for super small (<20)?
        
             | cheeseblubber wrote:
             | Oh yeah we're planning on introducing pricing for teams
             | soon. Right now we've been focusing on communities. So will
             | have something out for teams soon!
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | Does that count active users? Or total users? Be a bit sad if
           | you were perpetually paying for some rando that posted a
           | message 5 months ago.
        
       | sandGorgon wrote:
       | this is very cool! what things of slack does it NOT have -
       | genuine question here. Like private channels, etc etc ?
       | 
       | can it replace slack basically ? what will i have to do ?
        
         | 2h wrote:
         | seems private chats are not a thing. which is a dealbreaker for
         | me coming from Discord. I asked in support so I guess we will
         | see.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rado wrote:
       | The "Join" modal should trap focus.
        
       | rahimnathwani wrote:
       | It might be worth testing different variants of the landing page
       | copy. The version I see is this:                 Google-
       | Searchable and community focused
       | 
       | Slack alternative Sync your Slack and Discord conversations to
       | Linen and get SEO benefits while reducing customer support load
       | 
       | The latter sounds like I need to be a Slack or Discord user, and
       | Linen makes the conversations searchable on the web. But the
       | title (Slack alternative) makes it sound like I can use Linen
       | _instead_ of Slack.
       | 
       | Which is it?
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | Yeah, I had the same questions. Is it a chat app, or an
         | indexing app?
         | 
         | After spending some more time it seems to be a chat app that
         | allows importing.
        
           | CSSer wrote:
           | And that's a pity because I got really excited by the
           | prospect of the alternative. It made my gears start spinning
           | for viable ways to accomplish that. Oh, the ideas I'd work on
           | if I had unlimited time...
        
       | wilg wrote:
       | I won't run any apps over 480 KB unfortunately.
        
         | nonethewiser wrote:
         | Why 480?
        
         | peoplearepeople wrote:
         | I'm pretty happy to run anything below 640 KiB myself
        
           | ronsor wrote:
           | That should be enough for anyone, anyway
        
             | a3w wrote:
             | Found the time traveling Bill Gates on HN
        
               | SLWW wrote:
               | thanks for the laugh! :) <3
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | For me, it will happily fit into L3 cache and it isn't very
         | close to fitting into L2, so I guess it is fine.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | Can we run this locally and _not_ on the cloud?
        
         | freeqaz wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure it's Open Source here:
         | https://github.com/Linen-dev/linen.dev
        
           | cassianoleal wrote:
           | Yeah but there are no instructions on how to deploy and
           | operate. No user docs whatsoever that I could find, either on
           | their website or on Github.
        
       | asar wrote:
       | I think linen definitely solves a lot of issues OSS communities
       | face when the majority of issues are answered on discord/slack.
       | The need for such a tool should decrease as docs mature however.
       | So maybe a tool to integrate with or update the docs could be
       | cool.
       | 
       | On a general note I think you should link back to your landing
       | page from the navigation of a project. Especially if people enter
       | via a search engine, they are essentially locked within an
       | organization. The only way out is to manually navigate to
       | linen.dev.
        
       | robot wrote:
       | show me the demo
        
       | otterley wrote:
       | Feature request: Can we get sign-in with Apple, please? It's the
       | only single-click auth integration I trust for privacy.
        
       | Manjuuu wrote:
       | The size is only one of the factors, it can be small but slow,
       | especially when the history grows.
        
         | cheeseblubber wrote:
         | Definitely. This is why we also do things like optimistic
         | updates, setting query performance alerts, and when possible
         | reducing as much DOM elements.
        
         | KMnO4 wrote:
         | I agree.
         | 
         | while(1) malloc(1000);
         | 
         | Is only 0.02kb and will bring your computer to a crawl.
        
           | connordoner wrote:
           | This made me giggle more than it should have.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | 500 KB + Tens of millions of lines of code of a browser + a bunch
       | of backend code.
       | 
       | Want a lean Slack alternative? Use IRC. Want a fancy Slack
       | alternative? Use Matrix.
        
         | oblio wrote:
         | I don't want to host a server and I want my messages to be
         | synced between multiple devices including mobile ones.
         | 
         | I want rich messages, images, links.
         | 
         | I want threads.
        
           | einpoklum wrote:
           | > I don't want to host a server
           | 
           | Given that we're talking about search-engine-visible logs -
           | just use an existing, public server.
           | 
           | > I want my messages to be synced between multiple devices
           | including mobile ones.
           | 
           | I actually believe it's better for people _not_ to have Slack
           | on their mobile, so as not to be pestered, but if that's what
           | you want, then you want the "fancy" alternative. Matrix
           | clients can offer you that.
           | 
           | > I want rich messages, images, links.
           | 
           | So, Matrix.
           | 
           | > I want threads.
           | 
           | If that's the case, maybe what you really want is a Discourse
           | web-forum rather than Slack.
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | > I want threads.
           | 
           | Anyone has usable threads yet? For the life of me I can't
           | follow Slack threads.
        
         | doodlesdev wrote:
         | What about a Google-searchable alternative to any of these? I
         | think this would be one of the main selling points of Linen.
        
           | einpoklum wrote:
           | I believe several (most?) IRC servers support logging channel
           | transcripts; and those can be easily made web-accessible. If
           | you're not running the IRC server, you can use a logging bot
           | to do that.
           | 
           | See discussion 7 years ago on serverfault.com, and the links
           | therein:
           | 
           | How to set up a IRC server that logs all messages?
           | https://serverfault.com/q/190069/113898
           | 
           | How to Offer Searchable IRC logs?
           | https://serverfault.com/q/36886/113898
           | 
           | The bot option should be valid for Matrix as well, although
           | there I'm not sure the bot world is well-enough developed to
           | be 100% sure that a bot exist for every common desire like
           | saving channel logs.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | There's also Mattermost which seems a reasonable Slack
         | alternative (and self-hostable.)
        
       | steve_adams_86 wrote:
       | I highly recommend front end devs add a step to their CI pipeline
       | which extracts bundle size information from the build and
       | includes it in pull requests, or something similar. It's great to
       | have eyes on how heavy your bundle is, and keeping an eye on how
       | it changes over time (easy to add as part of the pipeline) can
       | help the team understand when things are trending the right way
       | or not.
       | 
       | It's usually a call you need to make based on what you're
       | shipping, but at the very least, it'll ensure you don't blow up
       | your performance because something slipped by.
       | 
       | Finally, looking at the components of your bundle if you haven't
       | already is well worth it. Like the people over at Linen noticed,
       | they were shipping a ton of icons they were never using. This is
       | happening all over the internet, and it's a real drag on the
       | network, parsing, and executing phases in a browser. If you
       | benchmark, you'll see significant differences when you trim
       | things back.
       | 
       | If you have customers using lower powered devices, this is even
       | more crucial.
        
       | cahoot_bird wrote:
       | It always seemed to me the basics of a messenger app would be the
       | easy part to be accomplished. It's the marketing that would be
       | hard seeing as there are already existing solutions such as Slack
       | and Discord.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | what-no-tests wrote:
       | Wow I was thinking "slackware" and was amazed it would be only
       | 500kb.
        
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