[HN Gopher] Apple Releases App Store Monthly Active User Counts ... ___________________________________________________________________ Apple Releases App Store Monthly Active User Counts for EU to Comply with DSA Author : tech234a Score : 140 points Date : 2023-04-27 17:11 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.apple.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com) | smoldesu wrote: | > because the goals of the DSA align with Apple's goals to | protect consumers from illegal content. | | An interesting gambit. It sounds like they want to concede to the | regulators while using "illegal content" as the new boogeyman | stopping people from freely using their device. | | The freedom-loving part of me wants the EU to push the DSA/DMA | further, damning all the "content" boogeymen that exist. The | realistic part of me knows that this is an amazing deal for the | regulator, a literal Golden Apple if you will. Apple is | signalling cooperation here, and attaching it to a "think of the | children/terrorists" sentiment that most politicians will jump | on. It's a damn good strategy, and would almost be impressive if | it wasn't used in a desperate struggle to stop the user from | installing F-Droid on iOS. | rootusrootus wrote: | > The freedom-loving part of me wants the EU to push | | I'd expect that writing this phrase caused actual physical pain | from the cognitive dissonance. | permo-w wrote: | it's cognitively dissonant to believe that regulations cannot | create freedom | madsbuch wrote: | Why? A big part of governance is to ensure individual | freedom: Minimum salary, unions, etc. | | The comment seems to be perfectly congruent. | | (Though you have to accept a more ... European world view) | sib wrote: | Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom. | | If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I | can't. | | If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I | can't. | | As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero." | smoldesu wrote: | It is possible to be free in a society that restricts | some personal freedoms. The libertarian extremist model | that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all, | and it's mostly a testament to why we can't provide total | personal or market freedom. Without being able to | disincentivize bad behavior, everyone will race to the | bottom regardless of altruistic intent. | Spivak wrote: | You're describing freedom as in anarchy, the parent is | describing freedom as in liberty. | | I am more free and able to use the software I want when | the government forces Apple to unlock their devices even | though it makes Apple less free. | | I am more free to travel when everyone follows the rules | of the road even though I give up some autonomy to do so. | | I am more free to use wireless networks because everyone | has to stick to their assigned bands even though I give | up my ability to use other bands to do so. | | I am more free to live and sleep because of noise | ordinances even though it means I can't play loud music | late at night either. | | For people who value liberty, freedom means the ability | to do the things you actually want to do. Social norms | get enforced everywhere, even in the state of nature. | smoldesu wrote: | The freedom-loving part of me also cheers on the Right to | Repair, even though it isn't a truly libertarian ideal. Is | there a problem with that? | | Preserving individual freedom is what keeps the free market | in check. It is precisely the thing stopping 1984 from being | like 1984. | owisd wrote: | It's a balancing act between the negative freedom to be | allowed to manufacture and sell a locked down device VS the | positive freedom to install whatever software you want on the | devices that you buy. I know libertarians skew very much | towards the negative end, but they don't get to gatekeep the | word freedom. | heavyset_go wrote: | Apple tried their hardest to make non-iPhones "pedo phones", | and they'll do the same thing here. | | Non-App Store apps help terrorists, criminals, pedophiles, etc | someone please think of the children. | csomar wrote: | It'll be interesting if the plot is twisted and instead the EU | requires Google to limit Android to only Google Playstore. | knaik94 wrote: | That would imply that Amazon app store or Samsung app store | apps are illegal content. While they are not as popular in | the US, these alernate apps stores have existed for years on | android without issue. | smoldesu wrote: | It would be a hell of a pivot, but kinda unlikely given how | the AOSP exists. | rpgbr wrote: | Less than 1% of European iPhone users have an Apple Watch, or am | I misreading something? I really thought this percentage was | bigger in such a rich place. | pertymcpert wrote: | We don't call them europoors for nothing! | | (I'm a European myself) | ezfe wrote: | I interpret this to be users of the service, not users of the | device the service supports. Most users probably don't open the | Watch app store and use the iPhone app store instead. | ffitch wrote: | Probably just mean the users visit watch store less often than | they visit ios app store | Jtsummers wrote: | This is monthly ??? Store users. Having an Apple Watch does not | imply they use the Apple Watch App Store every month, or even | any month. Even having an iPhone does not mean they'll use the | iPhone App Store each month (though it's probably more likely). | jd96 wrote: | What even is the Apple Watch store? Isn't that just the iOS | store? | Jtsummers wrote: | > What even is the Apple Watch store? | | Apple Watch _App_ Store. It 's an app store on the Apple | Watch showing Apple Watch apps. Many of which, but not all, | have an iPhone/iPad companion app. | gumballindie wrote: | All those riches are taken back as taxes. So while it sounds | like europeans are rich it's just on paper. But they take | comfort in projecting their own status on similarly poor people | from parts of europe that are developing faster but are bit | behind since you know they only recently became free. It's | hilarious to observe and funny in a sad way. | jd96 wrote: | Far better to live in a low tax, failed state with extreme | economic inequality. At least we've got Apple Watches, am I | right? | [deleted] | systemvoltage wrote: | Wait, why is this a regulation? Why should a corporation have to | disclose MAU? I'm holding off my cynicism, asking for a friend. | Someone wrote: | There's fairly broad political pressure to regulate large | players in online platforms such as Apple and Google. | | As a result, the EU regulated online platforms. As is often the | case, they aren't stupid, and put more stringent requirements | on large players than on smaller ones. | | So, they have to know which players are smaller and which are | larger. They chose to use number of active users as the way to | measure whether players are large, with 10% of the population | (45 million) a cut-off point. | | That's why they require all digital services companies to | report # of active users. | | (Aside: it turns out that Wikipedia is a very large online | platform, too. See https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/ | detail/en/ip_23_...) | [deleted] | greycol wrote: | To comply with section 24(2) of the DSA. You need to publish | that information about your number of EU users. | | Currently there's no strict rules on how you calculate or even | necessarily the information you publish. Other than saying | based on your calculation your number of users is below 45 | million (in the EU). In the future there will be delegated | articles on how the calculation must be done. | | Obviously the regulation was made in comitee with team of | lawyers but I expect the justification for "Why should a | corporation have to disclose MAU?" is something like: | | * The majority of businesses will with minimal work be able to | tell the difference between having under say 4 million EU usere | and having 45 million eureopean users so they'll know if | they're in a range where they should be concerned about the | regulations. | | * If they're getting to a size where they have millions of | users (in europe alone) they should have the resources to put | in place logging/policy to figure out if they're approaching | the 45 million EU users with more confidence. | | * By making them publish a statement saying they've done what | they believe is due dilligence on making sure the rules don't | apply then enforcement becomes much easier. Auditing only needs | to be done randomly on a handful of sites that declare they're | just under the limit and on those who look like they are taking | the piss saying they're well below the limit or seem to be | growing but keep saying they're just under the limit | declaration after declaration. | | So these numbers are shown in Apple's case because it's in a | companies best interest to show they're acting in good faith in | working out these numbers (Especially since in Apple's case | they're trying to differentiate the services so that they can | try to reserve the right to not apply the DSA to some of those | services in a possible future). Stating a number (or that | you're well below the user limit) implies you've done a real | calculation (i.e. I only get 44 million site visits from | anywhere in the world every 6 months so I can't have 45 million | EU users) and in the case of an audit where it's not the case | shows you were acting maliciously/with gross negligence/with a | calculation tha needs to be changed, making any enforcement | much more justifiable. | [deleted] | [deleted] | jsnell wrote: | > iOS App Store: 101 million | | > iPadOS App Store: 23 million | | Asserting that the iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App | Store - and totally isn't in scope for the regulations - is | certainly a bold strategy. | | I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren't included, and why | Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some obvious | reason why these kinds of services would be out of scope? | alberth wrote: | > _I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren 't included, and why | Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some | obvious reason why these kinds of services would be out of | scope?_ | | Probably because they don't exceed the 45MM MAU threshold. | | > Online platforms with 45 million or more average monthly | active recipients | jsnell wrote: | Most of the services they listed were nowhere near the | threshold, so that can't be it. | fsckboy wrote: | > _iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store_ | | the whole idea that applications written in software shouldn't | handle screensize differences (and dynamic changes) | intelligently is just so broken. I get that feeling in the pit | of my stomach like "who let these people in? is the door wide | open out there?" | | i mean, to each their own, that's just me, but that's how I | feel software should be written, and while we're at it, give | the user some input/options at runtime. | threeseed wrote: | iOS/iPadOS does allow you to have one code base that | dynamically responds to screen sizes. | | But almost always the experience for iPad users is terrible. | | Which is why Apple's initial approach of forcing developers | to build distinct iPad apps was the right one and a large | reason why its tablets dominated the market versus Android | competitors. | fsckboy wrote: | > _iOS /iPadOS does allow you to have one code base that | dynamically responds to screen sizes. But almost always the | experience for iPad users is terrible._ | | are you saying the tools aren't there for developers to | create equally pleasing (mutatis mutandis) apps, or simply | that the developers aren't able to create equally pleasing | (mutatis mutandis) apps? Or that designers can't grok the | mapping between their equally pleasing ideas and the tools | available? | threeseed wrote: | There is no tool that can scale a mobile app to tablet | size whilst maintaining a great UX. | | You need to optimise for the particulars of each device. | selykg wrote: | Having worked on an app that, at least in my opinion, was | pretty well done for each platform (phone and iPad), this | is the case. | | Our UI for the iPad was a completely separate one. The | core code was shared via various internal libraries, but | the UI was entirely different. Adding a feature to iPhone | required one entirely separate set of code compared to | the iPad app. The app was a universal binary though and | one app ran on both device types. | | This was, at the time, an absolute requirement. There was | no way to scale the app from iPad to iPhone in such a way | that it would give a great experience on both iPhone and | iPad. It just wasn't possible to give an excellent app. | | I've long since left and the app does seem to be written | in SwiftUI now and seems to be one shared codebase. But I | wouldn't say it's as good as it was previously. | heisenzombie wrote: | A phone and a tablet are just wildly different devices. | Screen size --sure-- but also usage patterns, input | methods, workflow conventions, etc. | | The "mutationes" that must be made reach deep into the | functionality of an app, not just UI-level stuff. The | whole purpose of the app should probably change. It's | therefore a big and challenging job to make an app scale | seamlessly from one device to another. That's irreducible | complexity. The tools available will always be at best | "necessary but not sufficient". | zamnos wrote: | I'd say it's on the other end. users can't find the apps | which are properly designed for tablets, and get tired of | wading through crap to find them. the tips are totally | there, but if you search for, eg, python, you can be sure | the iPadOS app is decent and designed for ipad, vs you | have no idea if the Android app is actually pleasing on | tablet. | | That developers have the tools and can or cannot use the | tools is secondary to that, imo. | [deleted] | zamnos wrote: | The iPad store didn't break away from the iOS store until | 2019. The original app store came out in 2008, eleven years | earlier. While you have as certain point, the division is | meant to highlight apps which treat the iPad as a mini | laptop, with a keyboard and pencil, vs just a bigger phone. | If you've ever coded a website to resize, that's child's | play. to actually get an app working properly across both | sizes, you've got to put in significant work for each. For | developers that don't want to put in that work *, listing in | one or the other is fine, and possible Uber the current | regieme. | | * the developer for papers please's blog about the mobile | port is indicative of the work that goes into supporting | other screen sizes. Asking developers to have infinite time | and motivation is just not realistic. also note that it took | a few years for the mobile port to be released. | | https://dukope.com/devlogs/papers-please/mobile/ | scarface74 wrote: | This is not true. From the day that the iPad was | introduced, you have always been able to sell separate iPad | versions of an app then iPhone versions. | glompers wrote: | You can still do it without doing it well. That's | probably not at issue so I think the parent is not false | glompers wrote: | I like your comment and not because I polemically see this as | correct compared to the other people who disagree with you. I | think it is a good comment although I don't agree with you, | so thanks, and (on second thought I suppose you comment | frequently so I am not referencing any other comments in | general but) happy to hear more of your sensibility in | various threads. | babypuncher wrote: | Software that dynamically changes to fit different form | factors is difficult to write and rarely comes without | compromises to the UX. | | I prefer it when my iPhone and iPad apps have separate | bespoke UIs that take full advantage of the different sizes | and shapes. | fsckboy wrote: | writing software is about writing the hard-to-write parts | one time, so that users aren't confronted with the | anomalies all the time. Computers are our servants, we need | to let them figure things out for users, and take care of | the headaches, not simply declare "here, this is a | headache". | | yes, what you are pointing out is the challenge. solve it, | don't slough it onto the user. | | However, the same app can appear on different sized screens | with different skins, it doesn't have to be a different | app. | babypuncher wrote: | I'm not saying we should slough it on to the user. I'm | saying there is no true substitute for hand tailoring | your app for each platform you choose to support. | cube2222 wrote: | It's worth noting that they assert still wanting to comply on | the other platforms: | | > Nonetheless, Apple intends, on an entirely voluntary basis, | to align each of the existing versions of the App Store | (including those that do not currently meet the VLOP | designation threshold) with the existing DSA requirements for | VLOPs because the goals of the DSA align with Apple's goals to | protect consumers from illegal content. | flipbrad wrote: | Yes, but the regulatory fee you pay annually is calculated by | reference to the in-scope service(s)' userbase, so by slicing | you reduce what you pay, and your rivals end up footing more | of the cost (since it's a cost-share system). Well played, | Apple. | wildredkraut wrote: | I don't think they will be out of scope, because they all uses | the same AppleID backend and users can cross login with the | same AppleID everywhere. To be out of scope, Apple would have | to block iOS AppleIDs and iOS purchases from working on the | other gadgets and stores. | threeseed wrote: | They share the same AppleID backend. | | But users don't have to use the same login for each store. | shaky-carrousel wrote: | Yeah, in the EU bold strategies are pretty expensive. But sadly | Apple is a slow learner. | anonymouse008 wrote: | Eh, I get the position here. Different device classes, | different markets. | | I've gotten more than a few apps approved on tv, watch, Mac, | iOS, iPad. They are distinctly different. As much as Apple is | helping us leverage 'one code base to rule them all' there are | so many gotchas and detail required to make great experiences | on each. | eptcyka wrote: | Yeah, sort of how Microsoft could argue that there exists two | separate markets for Windows running on stationary compute | devices and Windows for mobile devices. Except this is a sad | joke and letting Apple get away with two devices running the | same OS would be playing into their hand that they stacked | years ago when they split them off. What is up with the | enormous amount of people on this site who are inexplicably | apologetic to Apple and other FAANG giants. | [deleted] | beaned wrote: | I don't think it's apologetic, it's two different | approaches. MS has chosen to try to kill 2 birds with one | stone, and Apple has allowed their devices to become more | focused. As someone with an iPad, I appreciate Apple not | trying to force that iPhone and iPad apps be the same | thing. The experience is better. | Twisell wrote: | This is hilarious considering that the classical, yet | irrational, fear amongst long time MacOS users is that | Apple might be secretly planing an OS convergence. This is | usually perceived as doomsday for MacOS and have been | feared by some for up to 15 years. | | You are basically stating the opposite while completely | ignoring the actual complexity of such an hypothetical | merge for codebases that forked 15 years ago. They share a | kernel and some API, but on the UI side recent cross | platform framework are more like a proof of concept than a | production ready thing. | downWidOutaFite wrote: | Another thing that's hilarious[1] is in the Epic lawsuit | Apple wanted to define the market as big as possible | while here they define it as small as possible. | | [1] not actually hilarious | _the_inflator wrote: | I agree. Almost anyone of these one size fits all approaches | hits a wall sooner or later. Besides very basic applications, | I would never make use of frameworks like Flutter or React | Native. Same goes for Windows Universal Apps. Great concepts, | but not very feasible in reality for slightly complex apps | with good UX. | rnk wrote: | I strongly disagree. This is just big companies | artificially separating their market segments to argue | against too large of a market, and preserve their enormous | profits with their huge percentage take. The world would be | much better off with multiple stores. It will take legal | action by the eu, and it will be hard, these rich companies | are very influential. In the us we have too much capture of | federal politicans, I only hope the eu can push it. | nextos wrote: | I hope multiple stores shake a bit the iPad ecosystem. | It's a great device and, unlike in mobile, there's no | competition. | | Android tablets are pretty bad. Google dropped the ball, | although they seem to be coming back. | | iPads could be fantastic devices to program in, but they | are quite crippled by limitations. | | Boutique software companies, such as Panic or Omni Group, | plus other developers could really extend the ecosystem | beyond content consumption and simple document creation | tasks. | makestuff wrote: | Do you think it is worth the increased time to start out as | a native app, or is it still worth rolling your MVP as | flutter/reactive native? | karmelapple wrote: | IMO, roll your MVP with something like React Native, | although it all depends how important the user experience | is for your end users. | | Snapchat built with some platform-independent UI toolkit | would have felt kind of wrong, and the speed at which | I've seen teenagers use it (this was years ago) shows | that they would have been frustrated with anything that | is slow-ish. I assume similar trends dominate for TikTok | and Instagram today. | | So unless you're attracting a very hip, fast-moving, | perhaps even young-person's market, you probably just | want an app that basically works and is available to | folks on whichever phone they use. React Native, Flutter, | Xamarin / .NET MAUI will all get you there. | m3kw9 wrote: | They wouldn't base their strategy on numbers but function. | MBCook wrote: | iTunes and Apple TV aren't app stores. | | The Apple TV App Store is listed. | jsnell wrote: | That explanation does not work. The DSA isn't a law | restricted to App Stores. | | Also, podcasts and ebooks are not apps, but they listed their | ebook store and podcast subscriptions platform in this | disclosure. Why not the music store, the TV series and movie | subscription service? | cma wrote: | Don't purchases literally work between the iPad and iOS stores | in most cases? | scarface74 wrote: | I have one app that doesn't have an iPhone equivalent - Duet. | | But a developer can sell separate iPad versions of an app. | Most don't anymore. | gjsman-1000 wrote: | Note that this is the Digital _Services_ Act compliance, and | not the Digital _Markets_ Act which affects sideloading. | wildredkraut wrote: | Yes I know, and they share the same AppleIDs/AppleID | Backend/Purchages. These AppStores are not fully independent | and have to be seen as one. Many Apps even share the same | binaries and are cross Apple Device available. You can | install iPhone Apps on iPads, and you can install iPad Apps | on Macs. | | That won't work on court. | gjsman-1000 wrote: | > That won't work on court. | | How do you know? If there was no chance of it working, you | would think Apple's lawyers would have said so. | wildredkraut wrote: | There is a reason why they bend over for EU's DSA. | | They can view the stores as they want, but they know that | per law they aren't distinct online platforms, as long | their Userbase, AppleIDs, AppleID Backend, Hosting | Services, Databases, iCloud Services, Apps, Games and In- | App Purchases are cross-wired and shared between all | Apple devices/stores. The DSA sees it as one(1) united | Online Platform and would not care for Apple's Store | breakdown. | | This is just the typical Apple FUD: Without prejudice to | further consideration of the legal characterisation, | Apple views each version of the App Store as a distinct | online platform under the DSA, and only the iOS App Store | may qualify as a VLOP. Nonetheless, Apple intends, on an | entirely voluntary basis, to align each of the existing | versions of the App Store (including those that do not | currently meet the VLOP designation threshold) with the | existing DSA requirements for VLOPs because the goals of | the DSA align with Apple's goals to protect consumers | from illegal content. | I_am_tiberius wrote: | This sounds like something I would expect from China. | nottorp wrote: | > Without prejudice to further consideration of the legal | characterisation, Apple views each version of the App Store as a | distinct online platform under the DSA, and only the iOS App | Store may qualify as a VLOP. | | LOL LMAO ROFL. I really hope there is some EU directive that this | is breaking so they can be fined just for being asses. | apetresc wrote: | Given that the definition of a VLOP is >45M MAU, and the iOS | store is the only one that's even remotely close to being over | that, what do you object with in this characterization? | | Also you left out _the very next sentence_ , which completely | reverses the interpretation you're trying to imply: | | > Nonetheless, Apple intends, on an entirely voluntary basis, | to align each of the existing versions of the App Store | (including those that do not currently meet the VLOP | designation threshold) with the existing DSA requirements for | VLOPs because the goals of the DSA align with Apple's goals to | protect consumers from illegal content. | 988747 wrote: | I think the point is: App Stores for iPhone and iPads are in | reality one and the same. Apple tries to artificially split | them, so they can avoid regulations for at least one of them. | bunbun69 wrote: | Show me where apple is avoiding regulations here | [deleted] | nottorp wrote: | > the iOS store is the only one that's even remotely close to | being over that | | What iOS store? They're all one and the same. You can install | iOS apps on iPadOS right? | | It doesn't matter that they "voluntarily comply". They just | shouldn't have the nerve to split them. | scarface74 wrote: | You can't install iPad only apps on iPhone though. | andrejguran wrote: | you can if you check one checkmark during publishing of | your iOS app (same with mac). | CostcoFanboy wrote: | I'm surprised there are more Apple TV users than Apple watch | users. It always felt like a fairly niched device. | | On a somewhat unrelated side-note, as a hardcore Plex user for | the last 5-6 years, Apple TV has been an amazing Plex client. | Second only to a Nvidia Shield Pro downgraded to 8.2.3 firmware. | | Honestly with the quality of their TV boxes, screens and the | "ecosystem", I'm kind of surprised they didn't dive into the TV | business. | TYPE_FASTER wrote: | The Apple Watch will automatically install the watchOS app for | each iOS app you install on your phone by default, if a watchOS | app exists for the iOS app. I don't know if the auto installs | count towards user visits to the watchOS App Store. I don't | think I've ever used the watchOS store, and my watch is full of | apps. | | https://support.apple.com/guide/watch/get-more-apps- | apd99e3c.... | jasongill wrote: | I'm actually NOT surprised by this stat - keep in mind these | numbers are the number of active users of the stores, not of | the devices themselves. I've had an Apple Watch since day 1 but | I can't remember the last time I went to the App Store on my | watch itself. On the other hand, I have to use the AppleTV App | Store once every couple months to download whatever app is | required by the newest streaming platform the family want to | use. I suspect most people are like me as well in that they use | their iPhone to manage the "apps" on their watch (or, don't | manage them at all), but are forced to download apps on the | AppleTV periodically, which causes it to have higher usage | stats. | mperham wrote: | Note these counts are for *European* users. The Apple watch | seems really successful in my American suburb but that may not | be true in the EU. | [deleted] | eddieroger wrote: | Apps aside, my house has two adults with Apple Watches and four | TVs with AppleTVs. I don't think it's surprising that the aTV | outnumbers the Watch. | idk1 wrote: | I would say it's more about accessibility of the store and what | you can do with the device. There's not many games you can play | on the Apple Watch, not many TV channel apps to download, I | expect it's more to do with that than users of the device. They | may well have sold more Apple Watches, but the Apple TV has | sold less and there's more TV App Store users. This is totally | over the top, but just as an example, what if 1% of Apple Watch | users use the Watch App Store and 75% of Apple TV users use the | Apple TV App Store. | theseanstewart wrote: | > Second only to a Nvidia Shield Pro downgraded to 8.2.3 | firmware. | | What's special about 8.2.3 vs the latest firmware? I've only | owned my Shield for a few months so I'm curious what I may be | missing. | radicaldreamer wrote: | I think its about external storage: https://www.reddit.com/r/ | ShieldAndroidTV/comments/yjt6aq/wha... | | Not really relevant if you're mostly streaming on the box or | streaming locally from a file/plex server | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: | I'm not sure either, are they referring to the shitty new | home screen courtesy of Google? That comes in separate of the | firmware. | DRW_ wrote: | >I'm surprised there are more Apple TV users than Apple watch | users. | | I don't think these stats suggest that there are more Apple TV | users than Apple watch users. | | They say more people use the App Store on tvOS than use the App | Store on Apple Watch. | | As an Apple Watch user, I'm not surprised by that all. Why | would I want to browse the app store directly on my watch? | That's annoying and cumbersome. I do it on my phone, it's | quicker and easier and therefore I assume that'd be counted as | iOS app store usage. | | And I also reckon most Apple Watch apps people use are | companions to apps they installed on their iPhone anyway, | rather than Apple Watch only apps. | radicaldreamer wrote: | Spot on, nobody uses the App Store on the Apple Watch, most | people either never use third-party apps on the watch or only | use companion apps which are installed alongside iOS apps | ericpauley wrote: | Wow, TIL there's an app store on the watch... | karmelapple wrote: | I had zero idea there was an App Store on the Apple Watch | until this thread. There's some neat apps listed on there - | glad everyone in this thread talked about this! | mk89 wrote: | Let me guess, you're using the grid view? :) | rootusrootus wrote: | Family setup Apple watches are the most likely situation | where people are browsing the app store from their watch. | No companion iPhone. | Hamuko wrote: | It's much cheaper. Especially the non-4K models were dirt cheap | for Apple products. | ryanfreeborn wrote: | Purely anecdotal but I know way more TVs with an Apple TV | device than I know humans with an Apple watch. In most cases | they are households with many TV-Apple TV pairings, and maybe | one or two people in the household have an Apple watch. | scarface74 wrote: | Apple sells far more watches than AppleTVs by every estimate | that you can find. | tpmx wrote: | Apple TV (the hardware, not the streaming service) is so | underappreciated. The smooth task switching alone makes it | worth a buy. I think it's severely undermarketed. | | And the old touch remote that so many people hated.. I like it | so much. | | (Haven't tried the newest remote that has a combined | d-pad/touch area because of troglodyte customer feedback ( ;) ) | but I suspect I will hate it since the touchpad area is so much | smaller.) | anonymouse008 wrote: | Wow, they may 'sell' millions in the market, but many end up in | a drawer, or rarely seen as anything other than a wrist worn | notification device. This information is beautiful! Reaffirms | the true value of these things. | | (Well that, or the metric is truly skewed not including | companion apps - though that would feel disingenuous) | stirlo wrote: | Most apple watch apps are installed and managed through the | watch app on your iPhone not from the app store on the apple | watch itself. I just checked and I've never even opened the | app store app on my watch but I have configured dozens of 3rd | party apps using the Watch app on my iPhone. | vezuchyy wrote: | I don't have Apple Watch, but have Garmin. I used the store | once during the initial setup and I don't see why it should | be different for AW users. | Jtsummers wrote: | A lot of Watch apps also get installed through the attached | iPhone when you install the associated iPhone app. I think | it was the default, I turned it off, to have "Automatic | Downloads" on for apps. So if that's still the default (or | the present setting for the watch) then if you download | Strava for iPhone you'll get Strava on your Apple Watch | without ever touching the Watch App Store. | izacus wrote: | But it's still Watch App Store which installed and | delivered the app right? And the developers must use it | to give you the application? | | Just because you didn't open the UI it doesn't mean the | developers weren't forced to go through that app store to | reach you. | mostlysimilar wrote: | I don't find this surprising. Apple TV probably has nearly 100% | penetration of app store usage, you download your streaming | apps as a necessity (Netflix, Hulu, HBO, Disney+ are all apps). | | Meanwhile there's almost zero useful watchOS apps. The device | is great out of the box and doesn't need much else. | plufz wrote: | > I'm surprised there are more Apple TV users than Apple watch | users | | Anecdotal but everyone in my proximity that uses apple products | have an apple tv. My mother, my father, etc. Very few have an | apple watch. That's like me and my developer friends or friends | who are more nerdy about workout. | babypuncher wrote: | You can thank me. I've been shilling the ATV to any friends or | family I hear complain about their Roku/Fire Stick/smart TV. | | I went through literally all of them before getting an ATV, | even the Shield, because for a long time I refused to believe | Apple could make a good TV experience. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-04-27 23:00 UTC)