[HN Gopher] Searches for VPN Soar in Utah Amidst Pornhub Blockage
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Searches for VPN Soar in Utah Amidst Pornhub Blockage
        
       Author : freedomben
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2023-05-03 20:35 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.culturalcurrents.institute)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.culturalcurrents.institute)
        
       | wepple wrote:
       | What is the device based authentication the PH page mentions?
       | 
       | I'm a little scared to search for it whilst in a public space
        
         | banana_giraffe wrote:
         | It's a call out in the law that allows access to such material
         | if authenticated with a Mobile driver's license, aka mDL (
         | https://dld.utah.gov/utahmdl/ ), aka ISO 18013-5.
        
       | wcoenen wrote:
       | I'm not seeing any such trend at trends.google.com:
       | 
       | https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US-UT&q=VPN&hl=...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | Ah I found it. Adjust query to a much shorter window.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mirekrusin wrote:
         | past 7 days
        
       | danielodievich wrote:
       | I have a favorite Utah story that is I think appropriate here.
       | Many years ago as a young and green consultant I was sent to Salt
       | Lake to help with some ASP.NET/C# app with Utah Department of
       | Liquor. I was told to look for the tallest building in SLC and
       | the warehouse did not disappoint, it was huge (well, SLC is
       | really flat and squat too). They showed me the warehouse full of
       | really fancy robotic stuff (all made in Utah, and they were
       | correct to be proud of it). We got to work looking over the code
       | of the app, and along the way they learn that I am originally
       | from USSR/Russia. "Oh" the devs say, "do you want to see our
       | Russia module"? I am of course intrigued, and discover that
       | during the process of organization of 2002 SLC winter Olympics
       | (Mitt Romney's baby/rise to prominence), there was a huge
       | diplomatic incident. The rules of State of UT at the time limit
       | the number of bottles sold to any one in a given transaction, and
       | the Russian delegation was refusing to come to Utah because they
       | would not be allowed to buy as much liquor (likely vodka) as they
       | wanted to. This got escalated to the highest levels of State
       | department, and the intrepid UT legislature found a way! They
       | [very quickly] passed the law that any person with Russian
       | citizenship could buy whatever the heck they want in any amount.
       | Now it was up to the poor saps in the UT Dept. of Liquor to
       | implement it. But you couldn't just rely on people showing
       | passport! No, the software team feverishly coded up the "Russian
       | Module" that implemented passport number validation, making sure
       | that if you did show a red passport with double-headed eagle, its
       | number was valid. There was serious collaboration on the
       | numbering schemes and maybe even some proto API validation to the
       | Russian Federation servers. Yeah, legit module. Used for 2 weeks,
       | and then decommissioned as the law sunset very rapidly.
       | 
       | So, where there is a will, there is a way. And a VPN.
        
         | cpursley wrote:
         | Funny story if true.
         | 
         | But honestly, the whole "Russian vodka bears blat" stuff is
         | disrespectful (and wrong). Russians actually prefer whiskey &
         | brandy!!
         | 
         | Also, Russia is not even in the top 15 countries in terms of
         | alcohol consumption. Ukraine is higher, Finland is higher,
         | Ireland is higher.
         | 
         | But the worst offender: Russian vodka is not made of potatoes!!
         | They use grains. It's actually the Polish who use potatoes.
        
           | juujian wrote:
           | The divergence could be because plenty of Russians distill
           | their own liquor
        
           | epolanski wrote:
           | > Also, Russia is not even in the top 15 countries in terms
           | of alcohol consumption
           | 
           | That depends on which stats you take and for which country.
           | 
           | But Russians are always among the top in the world,
           | especially males.
           | 
           | Also don't forget in Russia muslims make 14% of the
           | population which lowers the nation averages a lot.
        
           | LastTrain wrote:
           | Also, there is absolutely nothing "flat" about Salt Lake
           | City.
        
             | cobaltoxide wrote:
             | It's surrounded by mountains, but the urban part of the
             | city is indeed very flat.
        
             | jjulius wrote:
             | Huh? The city itself is really flat - I've been through it,
             | _and_ a quick image search confirms as much. There are
             | mountains nearby, but saying  "there is _absolutely
             | nothing_ 'flat'" about it is pretty disingenuous.
        
           | cobaltoxide wrote:
           | Many sources put Russia in the top five for incidence of
           | alcoholism, and the life expectancy of Russian men is
           | famously diminished due to their high intake of alcohol. The
           | life expectancy of Russian women is 13 years longer than for
           | men.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_in_Russia
           | 
           | "A recent study blamed alcohol for more than half the deaths
           | (52%) among Russians aged 15 to 54 from 1990 to 2001.[14] For
           | the same demographic, this compares to 4% of deaths for the
           | rest of the world."
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Russia#Alcohol_consu.
           | ..
           | 
           | I don't think it's just a stereotype.
        
           | hunter2_ wrote:
           | There's a great Russian restaurant in NYC known for their
           | infused vodkas, and this part of their website sheds some
           | light on the history of vodka in that region:
           | https://www.russiansamovar.com/vodka/
           | 
           | Not doubting you in the slightest, just adding some flavor.
        
           | maximinus_thrax wrote:
           | Maybe not in alcohol consumption. But in alcoholism, Russia
           | takes an honorable second place after Hungary:
           | https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-
           | rankings/alcoholis...
        
         | cobaltoxide wrote:
         | I googled to try to find some reference to this alleged law,
         | but found nothing.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | So this was all a plot of the VPN industry?
       | 
       | Educating people how to use VPN is a very double-edged sword,
       | because people will also learn that they no longer need to pay
       | Netflix et al.
        
         | themitigating wrote:
         | No, it's Christian facism or were you joking?
        
       | notfried wrote:
       | In March, why was Virginia the highest state in the U.S. for
       | searches for VPN, with a score higher than Washington, California
       | and New York, per the article?
        
         | scooter7364 wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | boc wrote:
         | Government employees and contractors
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | spies doing remote work
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | CIA operatives in Langley inflating the numbers, clearly.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _CIA operatives in Langley inflating the numbers, clearly_
           | 
           | This was my first thought, too. But these aren't data for VPN
           | usage. Just searches. Why would Langley have a bunch of
           | people Googling VPNs in March?
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | You got to see if there are any new vpn companies you
             | haven't backdoored yet every now and then
        
             | yftsui wrote:
             | My hypothesis: people who are already using VPN egress
             | traffic in IAD (which has the largest AWS region), thus the
             | results based on IP address is skewed by people who
             | actually live in other countries or maybe even continents.
        
               | anonymouscaller wrote:
               | Wouldn't int'l users choose the location closest to them?
               | If you're in China for instance you're probably going to
               | be using SIN or TPE. Besides, most VPN providers avoid
               | Amazon and use colo providers that give much better deals
               | on bandwidth.
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | "How do I get this damn VPN to work"
        
             | kibwen wrote:
             | I appear not to have made my sarcasm obvious enough. :P I
             | was amused by the thought of CIA agents being told that
             | they need a VPN installed and so downloading the first
             | result on Google.
        
               | Juicyy wrote:
               | lmao too realistic /s
        
       | MuffinFlavored wrote:
       | Do we think VPNs will ever be banned in a state like Utah?
        
         | detaro wrote:
         | The "TikTok ban" draft (RESTRICT Act) is providing a template
         | on federal level according to various comments on that.
        
           | MuffinFlavored wrote:
           | Is the "TikTok ban" draft (RESTRICT Act) for
           | consumers/regular people or only government personnel?
           | 
           | Aka, are they really going to ban TikTok for regular people
           | or just make it so govenment personnel can't install TikTok
           | on their device? aka, only ban TikTok for government people
           | and not regular people
        
             | smolder wrote:
             | It doesn't appear to have much to do with TikTok at all,
             | from what I saw. It looks more like a regular old power
             | grab by the federal government over tech generally, moving
             | us towards censorship and _overt_ surveillance and
             | punishing circumvention.
        
             | seanp2k2 wrote:
             | I'm 100% sure that no one who works for the government
             | knows how to acquire and operate a separate smartphone
             | either /s
        
             | beepbooptheory wrote:
             | Its for everyone, not just government personnel.
             | 
             | https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-
             | bill/686...
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35369075
        
             | detaro wrote:
             | Hopefully the thing is going to fail and they are not going
             | to do anything. But yes, it provides for banning
             | government-choosen foreign sites entirely, with heavy
             | penalties for assisting in circumventing blocks. (Although
             | I guess VPN services could avoid it by filtering their
             | users traffic themselves)
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _it provides for banning government-choosen foreign
               | sites entirely, with heavy penalties for assisting in
               | circumventing blocks_
               | 
               | I recently heard the argument that TikTok is a media
               | control issue. Rupert Murdoch famously had to become an
               | American to buy Fox. Applying that precedent seems
               | cleaner than the RESTRICT Act.
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | I'm generally pro-migration but in Murdoch's case I don't
               | think it worked out well for his new neighbors.
        
               | swamp40 wrote:
               | Don't you just have to move the VPN offshore? China could
               | even spin up their own VPN companies.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Don 't you just have to move the VPN offshore_
               | 
               | Payment would still be a problem.
        
               | throwaway742 wrote:
               | I pay for my VPN with cryptocurrency.
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | That will accelerate the coming of on-device AI generated porn
         | apps.
        
         | olliej wrote:
         | The many (one would hope most?) tech and tech-adjacent
         | businesses, the federal government, etc all require VPNs, so it
         | would be hard to see how "ban VPNs for this already banned
         | thing" would even work.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Probably not, but only because it would be too technologically
         | complex for them to do. VPN companies don't operate in their
         | jurisdiction and don't care about Utah law.
        
         | struanr wrote:
         | I feel like a VPN ban might be difficult to enforce due to
         | corporate usage of the same technology
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | I doubt they try to ban them, but I could absolutely see them
           | push an age verification requirement for "personal" VPNs that
           | allow you to get an out-of-state IP address since it
           | "illegally circumvents state laws". So you can have a VPN,
           | but if you are in Utah the exit node must also be in Utah.
           | Corporate VPNs wouldn't be a problem legally because they
           | already verify your identify for state tax purposes so
           | there's nothing more for corporate to do.
           | 
           | Bonus: while your every access to porn is being logged for
           | the state, they can log your VPN use too just in case there
           | is anything relevant for law enforcement to care about.
        
             | BeFlatXIII wrote:
             | How would a law like that be enforced if none of the VPN's
             | personnel or physical assets are in Utah or if they're
             | entirely outside the US?
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _I could absolutely see them push an age verification
             | requirement for "personal" VPNs that allow you to get an
             | out-of-state IP address_
             | 
             | The VPN provider knows the user is in Utah and connecting
             | to Pornhub, so there might be an argument for knowingly
             | facilitating circumvention. No clue if that's something
             | that they can prosecute, though. I'd be de-nexussing Utah
             | were I running a VPN company.
        
         | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
         | A few years ago, Walmart stopped stocking (some) beer in Utah
         | because it was too difficult for them to bother getting the
         | 3.2% alcohol by weight beer which had been the limit in Utah at
         | the time[0]. Ultimately Utah's legislature decided to change
         | the 3.2% restriction. I suspect this will go that way; more
         | services will just say that they don't need to serve that
         | population and move on. There will be a lot of people saying
         | they like using their VPN _totally because it keeps me private
         | online_ and VPNs will just be normalized.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.fox13now.com/2018/12/11/walmart-joins-the-
         | push-f...
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | It will certainly be interesting to see. Utah is an
           | interesting case because _generally_ speaking high
           | percentages of the population will praise and promote
           | "freedom" and "liberty." Of course with humans often
           | stated/conscious beliefs and actions are often disjointed,
           | but there's still an interesting angle there where the state
           | is a lot more limited on what it can do in the enforcement
           | arena before people start pushing back.
           | 
           | That said though, porn access in Utah would be a hard one for
           | the average person to stand up for because the social
           | pressure there is immense (speaking from experience here).
           | The dominant religion teaches that "free agency" is an
           | important and indeed _essential_ aspect of our lives. We are
           | here on Earth to grow and develop and learn to make good
           | (i.e. obedient to God) choices. They even believe that a War
           | in Heaven happened that split the masses because Satan (aka
           | the Devil) wanted to force people to be righteous, but Jesus
           | ' plan was to give them choice. You would think they'd be a
           | bunch of libertarians then, but no they clearly believe that
           | God shouldn't force you to be righteous, but the _state_
           | should. Furthermore God has told their prophets that things
           | like alcohol, marijuana, porn, are wicked and sinful.
           | Reducing or eliminating your access to them is for your own
           | good (and the good of  "society") and is therefore justified.
           | I've tried pointing out that when it comes to enforcing your
           | morals on others it can literally be taken to China-level
           | authoritarianism with the same justication of "good for
           | society," but that never seems to get anywhere.
        
             | deet wrote:
             | For those who are wondering, none of these things are
             | "banned" though.
             | 
             | Drive around Salt Lake County, especially the city itself,
             | and you'll see plenty of bars, signs offering cannabis
             | medical cards, and even a strip club here or there. And
             | some not bad breweries.
             | 
             | The state just seems to take the approach of waiting for
             | sufficient demand for such things, then slowly adjusting to
             | allow more, rather that just "have at it" for anything.
             | 
             | And of course, like everything in America, what the
             | government really follows is the money -- they listen to
             | business community demands, like allowing and increased
             | number of bars where tourism and the local population
             | demands, like at ski resorts, etc. Agreed that porn could
             | be different though, since there's probably not a local
             | business group advocating for preserving porn access
        
               | isk517 wrote:
               | Ok, now you have me thinking about local people that
               | would stand to financially benefit from internet porn
               | being banned. Along the lines of does a internet porn ban
               | drive more people to visiting strip clubs, etc.
        
             | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
             | This comment makes me glad that most of my interactions
             | with Mormons have been from the other side of the fence, so
             | to speak. I grew up in SLC suburbs and currently live in
             | South Salt Lake but I was Methodist growing up, never LDS.
             | So there was never really anybody close to me who was
             | Mormon except until the age by which they'd learned not to
             | try to defend their beliefs to non-Mormons.
             | 
             | To this point: "porn access in Utah would be a hard one for
             | the average person to stand up for". I suspect that the
             | arguments will be for online privacy even if the real
             | intention is for porn access. But it's kinda more like you
             | said: it will certainly be interesting to see.
        
         | spacebanana7 wrote:
         | Banning VPNs would be very difficult for a US state.
         | 
         | In China VPN restrictions are somewhat effective because of
         | compliance from consumer platforms, ISPs and cloud service
         | providers all operating inside a largely isolated pocket of the
         | internet.
         | 
         | If any of those stakeholders refused to play along or could
         | operate outside of enforcement range then the VPN ban would
         | fail.
         | 
         | A ban isn't truly impossible, especially with support from
         | courts and the federal government, but I think it's similar to
         | the difficulty level of banning pirated content.
        
       | booleandilemma wrote:
       | What kinds of porn do Mormons like?
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | Heterosexual missionary position in a dark room under a blanket
         | between married couples for the purposes of procreation only
        
           | themitigating wrote:
           | Sounds like my marriage...
        
         | 0zemp2c wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | reducesuffering wrote:
         | Soaking
        
         | knicholes wrote:
         | There's a site that caters exactly to Mormon-themed porn, and
         | having been a "Mormon," or a "member of the Church of Jesus
         | Christ of Latter-Day Saints" for a couple decades, I can vouch
         | that it is truly hilarious. Here's some stats per state, in
         | case you were wondering about any others:
         | 
         | https://wour.com/nsfw-pornhub-reveals-most-popular-searches-...
        
           | nashashmi wrote:
           | It is unbelievable the amount of targeted advertising they do
           | to religious groups to somehow dislodge them from their
           | previous strictness. Mormons are not alone.
        
             | scooter7364 wrote:
             | [flagged]
        
       | andrewclunn wrote:
       | Conversely, one could set their VPN to Utah as a quick child
       | protective measure
        
       | xutopia wrote:
       | I'm just so surprised by how bad politics has become in the USA.
       | It's like they want to have charia law... or Christian law as it
       | were.
        
         | kypro wrote:
         | There's loads of laws about what permissible sexual behaviour
         | is though?
         | 
         | This is only unusual in the sense that generally Western
         | countries are in favour of porn. I think you could make a good
         | argument against the universal availably of porn given its
         | negative effects on the individuals that engage in it and on
         | society as a whole - similar to arguments against drug use or
         | prostitution.
         | 
         | I'm not saying I'm in favour of banning porn or anything, just
         | that where we draw the line on what's permissible behaviour
         | between consenting adults seems largely arbitrary and mostly
         | down to cultural factors rather than a fundamental analysis of
         | harm.
        
         | Fauntleroy wrote:
         | Utah is a remarkably special part of the US, in this regard.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | There's the landed elite ski crowd in Utah, but I guess they
           | just fly into their timeshare in park city for 5 days a year
           | and don't much care what happens outside that idyllic
           | vacation.
        
         | a-user-you-like wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | themitigating wrote:
           | How does this help people being exploited? Isn't that already
           | illegal?
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | The Utah law doesn't ban porn production.
        
           | sophacles wrote:
           | That's a lot of unbacked claims.
           | 
           | How is the age verification an attempt to stop an industry?
           | 
           | Where is it stated that that's the goal?
           | 
           | How did you decide that most porn workers were sexually
           | abused as children?
        
           | jp57 wrote:
           | This two-post thread is a microcosm of American politics on
           | all issues.
        
           | buffington wrote:
           | I can't imagine why, with claims this juicy, you wouldn't
           | share your sources. I'd recommend showing the data, or be
           | prepared to defend these ideas without it.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
         | > I'm just so surprised by how bad politics has become in the
         | USA. It's like they want to have charia law... or Christian law
         | as it were.
         | 
         | The USA are diverse and laws greatly vary from state to state.
         | Talking about "US politics" when a single state does something
         | is absurd.
         | 
         | Furthermore, many European countries like France are about do
         | the same thing with online porn, no later than this year, are
         | you also going to accuse France of wanting to have "charia
         | law"? That's preposterous. France couldn't be further from a
         | very religious country.
         | 
         | I'm not saying these kind of laws are efficient at stopping
         | minors from watching online porn, I'm just saying that your
         | characterization of USA as a country is wrong.
        
           | themitigating wrote:
           | Roe v Wade is a good country wide indicator. Trump
           | specifically said he would appoint judges to overturn it
           | during one of the debates.
           | 
           | The majority voted for him.
        
             | ekidd wrote:
             | > The majority voted for him.
             | 
             | Just to be precise, the popular vote was 62,984,828 to
             | 65,853,514 in favor of Clinton, with roughly 60% turnout.
             | The majority did not vote for Trump.
             | 
             | But that doesn't matter in US presidental elections.
        
             | downWidOutaFite wrote:
             | The majority did not vote for him. The majority of the
             | "electoral college" did. 2.8 million more people voted for
             | Hillary than Trump.
        
           | gleenn wrote:
           | I think that in general, as an citizen here that most people
           | definitely think about laws as generally similar across
           | states with the odd things like liquor laws frequently
           | standing out. The current push towards emphasizing state's
           | rights is a slippery slope the conservatives have been
           | abusing quite handily like they did with the new ban on
           | abortion. The minute they got invalidated Roe v. Wade,
           | suddenly it immediately swung towards a federal ban on
           | abortion. States rights are important but again, as a
           | citizen, you know the couple things your neighbor state does
           | differently but only recently has this felt like it split so
           | far.
        
           | callalex wrote:
           | I don't want to put words in your mouth so please correct me,
           | but are you asserting that laws restricting porn are not
           | religiously motivated?
           | 
           | Also o/t but France might not be the best example to use of
           | healthy politics that represent the will of the people right
           | now...
        
             | kelipso wrote:
             | You saying laws restricting prostitution is religiously
             | motivated? Laws restricting gambling? Drugs?
             | 
             | Where's the line between religious motivation and morality?
             | 
             | Just because you don't like the law, you accuse the
             | proponents of the law of being religiously motivated.
             | 
             | When you like the law, it will be because of blah blah blah
             | morality of course.
        
       | kelipso wrote:
       | Playing the world's smallest violin for the perverts in Utah who
       | now have to use a VPN...
        
       | esotericimpl wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | bigmattystyles wrote:
       | Is the law written such that the vpn is liable now or is it
       | treated like the ISP?
        
       | mindslight wrote:
       | This is fantastic news! Thank you government of Utah! Your
       | authoritarian grandstanding isn't likely to do much over the long
       | term, given basic American values like freedom of expression. But
       | in the meantime it will encourage people to get educated on basic
       | ways of evading censorship, while simultaneously discouraging
       | other sites from hassling visitors based on IP address.
        
         | badrabbit wrote:
         | This is such an HN comment. Democratically elected politicians
         | enact laws that reflect the conservative views of their voters
         | and that is totalitarian because they are controlling every
         | aspect of government centrally with all decisions made my
         | unelected leaders? No, because you disagree with it, that's it.
         | 
         | You know, I dislike both liberalism and conservatism but in the
         | US specifically, I feel like there is a particular
         | misunderstanding with liberally minded people about what the US
         | is supposed to be. If your fundamental human rights or other
         | protected rights are violated I get it, but watching porn is
         | not a right if any kind, states can restrict any aspect of your
         | life that isn't protected as a right. There is already a
         | restriction on adult material that involved minors or unwilling
         | participants, this simply expands it to all people, and there
         | is plenty of research and reasoning that indicates porn is
         | harmful to everyone, period! Personally, I find it more
         | reasonable if you argued cigarettes are healthy compared to
         | what porn does to your mind and therefore life. The whole point
         | of a federal union is you move to other states when you don't
         | like the laws, and everybody gets to exist with the most ideal
         | liberty vs restriction ratio.
         | 
         | For the "land doesn't vote" people who think the electoral
         | college should be abolished? this is exactly why it exists, so
         | crazy states line utah or missisipi don't have to leave the
         | union. I am far from a secessionist but the electoral college
         | was literally a critical component of the contract that states
         | agreed to when joining the union. You need to understand that
         | short of a global nuclear war, there are few things that are
         | worse for humanity as a whole (even more so for americans) than
         | a civil conflict between american states.
         | 
         | The whole point of post here is that so long as these crazy
         | state laws reflect the views of those who live there and
         | existing (not future) rights of protected individuals are not
         | violated, drop the exaggeration and tolerate them as you
         | vehemently disagree with them.
        
           | dgacmu wrote:
           | > but watching porn is not a right if any kind
           | 
           | That's not really true, depending on how you define "porn".
           | There are very strong first amendment rights around producing
           | and consuming all sorts of potentially objectionable content:
           | 
           | https://reason.com/2019/10/04/pornography-is-protected-by-
           | th...
           | 
           | Is it a "fundamental human right?" Dunno, I'm not the arbiter
           | of that. But the US supreme court has repeatedly ruled that
           | it is a constitutional right to be able to do so free of
           | government interference. That doesn't mean you're guaranteed
           | to have access to it - it's a free market and others 1st
           | amendment rights allow them to choose what they provide. But
           | the government can't stop you, and that's a right.
        
             | nashashmi wrote:
             | How do you define which is what?
             | 
             | "I know it when I see it." -- US Supreme Court
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | _watching porn is not a right if any kind_
           | 
           | While I have little interest in porn, I have a right to
           | publish it under the first amendment and that necessarily
           | includes a right to view it.
           | 
           |  _states can restrict any aspect of your life that isn 't
           | protected as a right_
           | 
           | And I can reject those restrictions insofar as my own person
           | is concerned. There's a stronger argument for states
           | mediating conflicts of interests between persons (eg police
           | existing because not everyone is able to provide their own
           | security) but your interpretation is a recipe for overreach.
        
           | seanp2k2 wrote:
           | This should be thrown out legally because "Congress shall
           | make no law respecting an establishment of religion.".
           | 
           | It's religion as law disguised as "But think of the
           | children!" as usual.
        
             | justrealist wrote:
             | Judeo-Christian doctrine also has prohibitions against
             | theft and murder. Should we throw those out?
             | 
             | There's an overlap between secular and religious
             | prohibitions, and there's no easy answer as to which rules
             | are "religious" -- you're just reflecting what's in your
             | head as "obviously secular" and "obviously religious", and
             | that's not how all other (secular) people view the world.
        
             | jiggyjace wrote:
             | There's nothing happening in Utah that is establishing a
             | theocracy that requires you must attend and worship a
             | certain religion.
        
             | nashashmi wrote:
             | It's civility as law. And religion has it in similar
             | fashion.
        
             | erenyeager wrote:
             | It's not favoring a particular religion, and even non
             | religious people (including for ex some radical feminists
             | you may find) can unite against pornography propagation.
             | It's also not just about think of the children, but any
             | society that cares for people will want to limit negative
             | influences on the most vulnerable and those growing up who
             | will become the future adults.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | > but any society that cares for people will want to
               | limit negative influences on the most vulnerable
               | 
               | I bet these same folks would be up in an uproar if you
               | mentioned gun control which have a lot more negative
               | influences than seeing boobies...
        
               | ModernMech wrote:
               | > It's also not just about think of the children, but any
               | society that cares for people will want to limit negative
               | influences on the most vulnerable and those growing up
               | who will become the future adults.
               | 
               | And yet that same society will do nothing to stop the
               | number one cause of death in children: gun violence. One
               | has to ask why?
        
           | hodgesrm wrote:
           | Thanks for an unusually clear exposition of how things can
           | and do work in a functioning, federated system of democracy.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | > This is such an HN comment. Democratically elected
           | politicians enact laws that reflect the conservative views of
           | their voters and that is totalitarian because they are
           | controlling every aspect of government centrally with all
           | decisions made my unelected leaders? No, because you disagree
           | with it, that's it.
           | 
           | Three points.
           | 
           | The will of the majority should never limit the desires of
           | the minority as long as it doesn't impinge on someone else.
           | Would you use the same justification for laws against
           | miscegenation and "sodomy" (ie non heterosexual sex) because
           | that's what the "conservative lawmakers" wanted"? Why the
           | carve out against "protected individuals"? All of our rights
           | should be protected against religious fundamentalism. Freedom
           | of religion also should be freedom from religion.
           | 
           | We see all across the United States even in conservative
           | states that when abortion rights are put on the ballot they
           | are consistently passing even against the will of the
           | legislation.
           | 
           | I can assure you as a resident of Florida and more
           | specifically Orlando, the number of people who want hundreds
           | of thousands of dollars and energy wasted going after "woke
           | Disney" is small - yet the legislation is passing laws and
           | spending money left and right.
        
       | yegor wrote:
       | NordVPN is probably raking it in right now with the amount of BS
       | marketing that they do....
        
         | rpastuszak wrote:
         | NordVPN actually inspired me to work on my current personal
         | project: a "human" ad blocker for sponsored content on Youtube:
         | https://github.com/paprikka/butter
         | 
         | I'll push a more stable version later this week. Feel free to
         | spam me via the email in my profile desc if you have any
         | feedback or ideas.
        
           | yegor wrote:
           | How does it work? I personally use this one
           | https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sponsorblock-
           | for-y...
           | 
           | It requires users to provide timestamps for "sponsored by"
           | content, so the player skips over it.
        
             | jonas-w wrote:
             | Sponsorblock is also integrated into piped for example
             | https://piped.video/
        
         | graypegg wrote:
         | Really gives some insight to why VPN companies have been
         | fighting for mindshare the past few years. Just waiting for a
         | case like this to pop up and be the first service people think
         | of.
        
           | millzlane wrote:
           | It worked for https://greenhealthdocs.com/ in Maryland. They
           | advertised heavily before legalization framework was in
           | place.
           | 
           | People didn't know they just needed to fill out a state form
           | that's approved automatically pay $50 to the state, and pay a
           | small fee $75-$80 to a certified doctor, dentist, nurse, or
           | midwife for a cannabis recommendation.
           | 
           | Instead, they greenhealth charges 200 bucks to people.
        
             | loeg wrote:
             | $200 vs $130, billed by one provider instead of several,
             | and you can figure out how to do it via the internet
             | seems... fine?
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | The ROI on VPNs with even a little marketing is huge and you
         | don't need tons of networking people to scale.
        
           | yegor wrote:
           | That's not true. Ask me how I know. :)
        
         | mardifoufs wrote:
         | Is it BS in this case though? VPNs are the best tool in this
         | scenario, and when you want to avoid geoblocking in general.
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | FoxyProxy gives each user a dedicated server for the same
           | price as NordVPN shared servers.
        
             | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
             | Can that dedicated server magically be in completely
             | different locations in seconds at the press of a button?
             | 
             | It's not like vpn providers are renting out _one_ shared
             | server. Being able to pick between countries is a key
             | feature. Shared servers might actually be an advantage too.
             | If your vpn is on a unique IP, it 's probably easier to
             | deanonymise you from bulk data.
        
             | mastazi wrote:
             | And what is the average user supposed to do with it? I
             | doubt that most people are even aware that you can ssh into
             | a server and configure it for tunnelling your internet
             | traffic, let alone knowing how to do that.
        
             | JeremyBanks wrote:
             | [dead]
        
       | ubermonkey wrote:
       | Given that VPN services typically require a credit card, and
       | credit cards are unlikely to be available to most minors -- or at
       | least provide plausible deniability to the providers -- this is
       | probably 100% okay with the porn-banning Utahns.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | The Opera browser has a free VPN built-in. It would be
         | interesting to see data on Opera and Tor browser downloads
         | there in the last week.
        
         | seanw444 wrote:
         | They don't though. A lot of VPN services operate for free. A
         | lot of my classmates in high school used free VPNs to bypass
         | the school internet filters.
         | 
         | I wonder how their business continues to operate if their
         | product is free...
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | Well there is only one solution: they should require that all
         | porn be paid-for by credit card. Utah will make PH rich to
         | protect their boys
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | I used to use VPNs. What a waste of money. Nothing but captchas,
       | broken functionality, slowness, etc. It's obvious that at least
       | some VPNs use low trust IPs and are blocked and filtered. You are
       | better off just getting an E2 instance
        
         | aqfamnzc wrote:
         | That's not been my experience. I run an always-on VPN on my
         | laptop and phone and never have issues. What service did you
         | try?
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | You need to find a better provider. I have regularly used
         | Private Internet Access and Torguard and have never had this
         | experience with either.
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | Mirror [1]
       | 
       | [1] - https://archive.is/a9wlZ
        
       | erenyeager wrote:
       | Actually I think this is really good that we see more regulation
       | around access to pornography, because many damaging aspects of it
       | have been raised more in public awareness and these companies
       | have made a lot of money off of addicting populations from a
       | young age with harmful content without paying for the
       | consequences. Social media companies should be included also,
       | considering how many children and teens are on social media
       | platforms looking for sexual activity with adults.
        
         | atleastoptimal wrote:
         | The issue is porn is a natural addiction. Young people,
         | especially young men will always be horny and seek out porn.
         | The only deterrents to it are religious and cultural shaming.
         | Is the solution to regulate porn with "education" so people
         | know what healthy use is or not? Because while it seems
         | reasonable to provide guidelines, 99% of people will ignore
         | them.
        
           | erenyeager wrote:
           | Sometimes what seems natural is because the water was
           | poisoned for so long. Yes, it is natural to have sexual
           | desire, but is unfettered spread of porn with a few taps
           | easily accessible at any age really something we should
           | accept? And young men need a lot of support, in my anecdotal
           | experience it is too easy for so many to fall down negative
           | paths with little support network to prevent it.
           | 
           | Now with AI it is even more dangerous, we have deepfakes (see
           | recent Canada news on deepfakes of children), and the spread
           | of more isolation and addiction with the internet "drugs"
           | compared to genuine in person interactions with friends and
           | family.
           | 
           | Technology like smartphones helped us in many ways but also
           | they became a new way to suffer and amplified some existing
           | problems. Shouldn't we regulate the worst of it?
           | 
           | I found more dangerous than porn is the ability to
           | communicate with random adults online as a child, with often
           | sexual endings. I remember growing up as a teen, there were
           | sites like Omegle and then chat apps like kik and Snapchat
           | and then Reddit, all these places had avenues for teens and
           | children to communicate and swap pictures with adults, etc.
           | with little to no regulation or consequences for these
           | companies.
        
             | juve1996 wrote:
             | Regulations should be reserved for the worst problems. Porn
             | consumption should be looked at, but not sure why we can
             | not just empower parents to do their jobs, just like we
             | empower them to control what movies they let their children
             | watch on TV?
             | 
             | You see with drug abuse that regulations do little to solve
             | the actual problems.
        
               | erenyeager wrote:
               | Juul was pretty swiftly dealt with once their effects on
               | children was noticed. Also, for parents the modern world
               | is very difficult, there are so many influences and
               | pressure on your children and they occupy an increasingly
               | smaller role in influencing children these days. There
               | needs to be society and government policy level
               | regulations to help, individual parents enacting harsh
               | rules will not end well in a society where advertisers
               | are very advanced.
        
             | atleastoptimal wrote:
             | I feel like use of porn is a symptom of isolation and lack
             | of education/support structures. Fix those and people will
             | be less vulnerable and addicted.
             | 
             | The problem is loneliness is stigmatized and porn creates a
             | "safe haven" where people don't have to confront the
             | challenging dullness and angst of their life. Kurt Vonnegut
             | once said: "What do my science fiction stories have in
             | common with pornography? Fantasies of an impossibly
             | hospitable world, I'm told."
             | 
             | What is the solution, to just do what Utah and sexually
             | repressed countries do, "Sorry no porn for you, it's in
             | your best interest, I'm sure you will stop wanting it if we
             | arbitrarily restrict it". It's not a solution and makes
             | people go further "down the rabbit hole" to scratch that
             | itch.
             | 
             | Here's a simple way to look at it:
             | 
             | This is a map of where pornography is illegal or restricted
             | in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_in_
             | India#/media/Fi...
             | 
             | Do attitudes towards pornography scale with healthy
             | societal sexual attitudes? Judging by the map I don't
             | suppose so.
        
         | nashashmi wrote:
         | Absolutely agree about this. the ways in which this industry
         | tries to catch your eyes and tries to grab your attention is
         | both outrageous and evil. yes, every advertising network tries
         | to do that, but there is no advertisement that leads to more
         | harm than this one, and the more frequently they can be
         | stopped, The healthier society will be.
        
         | ethbr0 wrote:
         | > _Social media companies should be included also, considering
         | how many children and teens are on social media platforms
         | looking for sexual activity with adults._
         | 
         | No considering.
         | 
         | "Social media companies should be included also."
         | 
         | Period. Because in their current form and business model
         | they're harmful to pre-adults.
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | On the latest Jonathan Haidt discussion here a parent posted
           | a lengthy rebuttal about someone pointing out the various
           | resources found on YT. Their a-yo and b-yo sons only watch
           | utter trash, Mr. Beast, videogames, 10 minute ads, all that
           | stuff, and they watch it for hours on end. What a terrible
           | platform. They ought to be ashamed of themselves. I only do
           | wonder who has custody of their kids, who handed them the
           | iPads, who gives them internet access, and who watches them
           | watch trash all day, day in and day out?
        
             | George83728 wrote:
             | > _a-yo and b-yo sons_
             | 
             | What does this mean?
        
         | themitigating wrote:
         | Prove damage
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | people will still be making porn for free if commercial
         | activity is banned. always have been. It's likely that people
         | watch more porn-hours on twitter than on PH. Social media
         | competition treadmill otoh is unhealthy AF
        
       | NikolaNovak wrote:
       | I don't understand pornhubs statement. What is device based
       | authentication and why is it the best?
        
       | commandlinefan wrote:
       | Somewhat ironic that they're going to be paying for the VPN (on
       | top of already paying the ISP) while still not actually paying
       | for the content itself.
        
         | smolder wrote:
         | Paying for porn would support the industry! That would be
         | immoral! Just looking is okay, though.
        
           | blacksmith_tb wrote:
           | Ah yes, in fact looking for free costs the providers
           | something, so it's clearly an ongoing campaign to drive them
           | out of business, hallelujah.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | How do you know that they aren't?
        
         | zsz wrote:
         | Given how well the porn industry does regardless of the rest of
         | the economy, it would be interesting to see how they would do
         | if a sizeable portion of "users" actually paid for their
         | services.
         | 
         | Enterprising individuals might consider next how the same
         | industry could counterintuitively profit from such legislation,
         | by starting their own VPN service (which would, for example,
         | not suffer from similar dropouts, connection resets, bandwidth
         | related issues, etc. as competing services). I guess it would
         | finally put to rest the question we've all been asking
         | ourselves all along: are people using VPN services primarily to
         | hide their piracy-related activities, or has it been mostly to
         | hide their sexual fetishes?
        
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