[HN Gopher] Language Learning with Netflix
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       Language Learning with Netflix
        
       Author : impoppy
       Score  : 100 points
       Date   : 2023-05-06 17:46 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (languagelearningwithnetflix.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (languagelearningwithnetflix.com)
        
       | MehdiHK wrote:
       | I recently switched to https://www.trancy.org/
        
       | soegaard wrote:
       | Chrome states that the new version of Language Reactor has been
       | disabled, because the extenstion can read and change data on all
       | amazon sites.
        
       | throwawaymaths wrote:
       | All I want is star trek the next generation in LATAM spanish.
       | Practically know that series by heart
        
       | vignesh_warar wrote:
       | Happy to see my favorite extension on HackerNews! I have been
       | using this extension to learn French, and it works quite well for
       | me.
        
       | yarg wrote:
       | I'd love to see video with subtitles in both the source language
       | and the target language, with edges between the corresponding
       | terms.
       | 
       | (Not perfect of course, translations never are, but for me (at
       | least) it would ease understanding.)
        
         | mentos wrote:
         | Trying to learn French I exported all the subtitles for an
         | episode of a French tv show 'Lupin' and then worked my way
         | through reading it first and then watched it but unfortunately
         | felt no easier. Probably because reading it once through really
         | isn't enough.
         | 
         | Would be fun if there was an entire 10 week course that worked
         | up to an episode of real tv that by the time you get to it
         | watching is completely fluent.
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | What worked for me was to read a scene in advance and then
           | watch that scene. Or watch with subtitles and then again
           | without them. Whole show is too long.
        
           | mumblemumble wrote:
           | For Spanish, _Destinos_ is something like that. It 's a
           | reasonably interesting telenovela that starts out with
           | beginner-level language and quickly works up to more
           | interesting dialogue.
           | 
           | https://www.learner.org/series/destinos-an-introduction-
           | to-s...
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | There a podcast I follow occasionally, the presenter does a
           | brief news-style interest story in a random subject. The
           | first read through is sometimes incomprehensible (to me) but
           | then he breaks down each phrase, and explains them (in French
           | mostly). At the end he reads the piece in full again, and
           | it's mostly comprehensible ... but that's a 2 minute piece of
           | speech. Trying to do that for a whole movie would be way too
           | much for me.
           | 
           | Perhaps that would suit you too:
           | 
           | Learn French with daily podcasts
           | https://www.chosesasavoir.com
           | 
           | RSS address: https://feeds.megaphone.fm/FODL4957050068
           | 
           | I use AntennaPod installed with F-Droid, far and away the
           | best podcast player I've found.
           | 
           | (No affiliations or associations, just what I've found
           | useful)
        
             | cmehdy wrote:
             | You might be interested in RFI's "easy" French news:
             | https://francaisfacile.rfi.fr/fr/podcasts/journal-en-
             | fran%C3...
             | 
             | They have articles and audio+transcript news if I remember
             | correctly. I'm French myself but I found a lot of good
             | opportunities to learn things organically in other
             | languages when following the news (in Japanese for me that
             | was NHK Easy: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/ )
             | 
             | Bon courage pour ton apprentissage!
        
         | leke wrote:
         | I think that's called translinear translation. I like the idea,
         | but hard to find the content. I never thought to look for film
         | though. I wonder if there is a site where you can download
         | movie subtitles.
        
           | visarga wrote:
           | See my other post
        
           | yarg wrote:
           | You'd want something more powerful than subtitles - otherwise
           | you get n^2 scaling with the number of languages.
        
           | detrites wrote:
           | I think you mean "interlinear" translation. Or aka a "gloss":
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlinear_gloss
           | 
           | Particularly, in the Structure section the Taiwanese example.
        
         | impoppy wrote:
         | This extension scratches that exact itch -- having audio in
         | German and captions both in German and English for example
        
       | visarga wrote:
       | I think language study just got an overpowered AI teacher. This
       | works more or less for any pair of languages.
       | 
       | I am using GPT4 to reformat text from English to Japanese in easy
       | reading mode. It is very good for language study using topics of
       | interest.
       | 
       | > Si ha (Watashi wa) [I am] GPT4woShi tsute (GPT4 o tsukatte)
       | [using GPT4] Ying Yu kara (Eigo kara) [from English] Ri Ben Yu he
       | (Nihongo e) [to Japanese] Jian Dan naDu miWu  (Kantan na
       | yomimono) [easy reading mode] niBian Huan shimasu.  (ni henkan
       | shimasu) [to reformat] soreha (Sore wa) [It is] Xing Wei Shen
       | itopitsuku (Kyoumi bukai topikku) [interesting topics] woShi
       | tsute (o tsukatte) [using] Yan Yu Xue Xi  (Gengo gakushuu)
       | [language study] nitotemoLiang i (ni totemo yoi) [very good]
       | desu.  (desu) [is]
       | 
       | Same, but in German:
       | 
       | > Ich benutze (I am using) [ikh benoot-se] GPT4 (GPT4) [ge-pe-te-
       | fear] um Text (to reformat text) [oom tekst] aus Englisch (from
       | English) [aus engl-ish] zu Japanisch (to Japanese) [tsoo yap-an-
       | ish] in einfachem Lesemodus (in easy reading mode) [in ine-fakh-
       | em leh-se-moh-dus] umzuformatieren (to reformat) [oom-tsoo-for-
       | ma-teer-en]. Es ist sehr (It is very) [es ist zehr] gut fur (good
       | for) [goot fuhr] Sprachstudium (language study) [shprakh-shtoo-
       | dee-oom] mit interessanten (using interesting) [mit int-er-es-
       | sant-en] Themen (topics) [tay-men].
       | 
       | The prompt I used:
       | 
       | Create a Japanese easy reading mode version of the given English,
       | breaking it into 2-4 word chunks, providing romaji and English
       | translations in brackets for each phrase. This is intended for
       | language study purposes.
       | 
       | ~~
       | 
       | Of course this is just a reader prompt, we could also have chat
       | mode, asking clarifying questions, asking for more examples of a
       | phrase, generate quizzes, etc.
       | 
       | I am at this weird point where I know phonetically much more than
       | I can read. This formatting helps a lot because you get to see
       | the Kanji first, then you use romaji and English only when
       | necessary. Being different scripts helps separate them visually
       | so as not to read the romaji before I want to.
        
         | BeretEnjoyer wrote:
         | Do you usually use GPT4 to translate from English, or was that
         | just for the example in your comment? Because the translated
         | output highlights the major problem of this learning-through-AI
         | approach: The generated output can just simply be wrong, like
         | it is here (both the Japanese and German).
        
           | visarga wrote:
           | I think it is good enough to "break into" the text. It's not
           | the most literary translation but you could just start from a
           | Japanese text if that's what you wanted. I went for modding
           | the English text I am currently reading as a language
           | exercise.
        
         | zx321 wrote:
         | Check out the browser extension Yomichan. It does something
         | very similar.
        
         | sneed_chucker wrote:
         | The Ich -> ikh transliteration is wrong. Of course there are a
         | bunch of German photetics which you can't translate into direct
         | English transliterations because the sound inventory is
         | different.
         | 
         | That being said, GPT is still pretty powerful for language
         | learning but you really have to verify more than you trust.
        
           | froh wrote:
           | and "ish" would do instead of "ikh", just to also offer the
           | solution to the riddle.
        
       | kebsup wrote:
       | I don't know if this extension foxes it, but I've found learning
       | language through Netflix difficult as the subtitles and dialog
       | don't match, neither for dubbing or original.
        
         | mumblemumble wrote:
         | I find YouTube to be vastly better for language learning. Good
         | subtitles are surprisingly easy to come by, the variety of
         | content is much greater, and you can also download the
         | transcripts for offline study. And, perhaps even better yet,
         | the videos tend to be short. Repetition is super important for
         | rapid progress, and it's much easier for me to watch a 10
         | minute video two or three times than it is something that's 30
         | minutes or longer.
         | 
         | If you're willing to shell out some money, YouTube + LingQ
         | (which has a plugin for automatically ripping audio+transcripts
         | into lessons) is so effective it's almost like cheating.
        
           | morkalork wrote:
           | YouTube appears be using ML SST subtitles most of the time
           | and tends to trip over simple things like homonyms and at
           | worst throws up its hands and just skips over difficult
           | (noisy, cross-talk, etc.) segments. I say this as someone
           | taking a 2nd language course where we'll watch a video
           | together and do a worksheet and class discussion in that
           | language after. Sometimes the instructor's reaction at the
           | end will be "wow those subtitles were bad!"
           | 
           | Edit for clarity: the subtitles are in the foreign language,
           | not English so it's not an issue of machine translation.
        
             | toxik wrote:
             | _[Music]_
        
           | drowsspa wrote:
           | Really? Most transcripts and translations I encounter are so
           | bad. Do you mean specific videos or channels?
        
         | est31 wrote:
         | It still helped me because even though it didn't match 100%, it
         | at least gave me an idea of what the original dialog was about.
         | Then I could derive the content from it. And it made fun to
         | figure out the differences between what was written and what
         | was said.
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | Is that the difference between subtitles and closed captioning?
         | 
         | If I recall, one is made from original script, one is typed up
         | from aftually spoken audio.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > I don't know if this extension foxes it, but I've found
         | learning language through Netflix difficult as the subtitles
         | and dialog don't match, neither for dubbing or original.
         | 
         | 100 000 times this. I don't understand _why_ it 's like that
         | but they simply often don't match. And it's not some automated
         | translation that went wrong: it's as if the subtitles didn't
         | match exactly the final "script". They don't match but the
         | subtitles are still totally correct. Sometimes the sentences
         | are formulated differently.
         | 
         | It's honestly both a mystery and a gigantic WTF for me. Are
         | these only meant for deaf people? And how did they manage to
         | get "correct but non-matching" subtitles?
        
           | rocketbop wrote:
           | I would assume it's the same as book translations, the point
           | isn't to translate it directly but in a way that makes sense
           | in the target language. Although maybe a lot of subtitles for
           | lesser TV and movies don't have a lot of human input and the
           | handler just goes with the softwares suggestion a lot of the
           | time.
        
           | d1sxeyes wrote:
           | I always assumed the opposite: the translated subtitles
           | reflect exactly what the script says, while the actor may
           | have remembered an approximation of the exact line, which is
           | normally good enough not to bother with another take.
        
           | mumblemumble wrote:
           | They typically hire two different companies to do the
           | translations, and the translations are optimized for
           | different goals. Subtitles are just meant to be easy to read.
           | With dubs they try to make what's being said at least vaguely
           | line up with what the actors' lips are doing in an effort to
           | avoid the infamous "1970s kung fu movie" effect.
        
             | bombolo wrote:
             | The english subtitles for italian shows on netflix are so
             | bad. They just mistranslate words or sentences for some
             | reason.
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | Afaik, they are done by two different teams.
           | 
           | Plus, dubbing is sorta kinda trying to match the length of
           | time actors need to say stuff. You cant have sound going
           | while actors mouth are not moving at all. Nor the opposite -
           | translation is done and actors mouth is still moving. And so
           | those movements can not look completely odd. Written
           | subtitles has no such limitations, resulting in different
           | translation.
        
             | dr_kiszonka wrote:
             | Good insight. In this case, why don't they display the
             | dubbing text when dubbed audio is playing?
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | If I had to guess, it just does not exists in subtitle
               | form, no one ever added time information to the
               | translation. Otherwise you had it in subtitles options
               | with cc.
               | 
               | Some shows have two versions of subtitles available - one
               | with cc other without. Likely, majority of consumers are
               | not learning language specifically and are just watching
               | the show and normal subtitles are superior in that case.
        
         | pferdone wrote:
         | Language learning via hearing comprehension of content not
         | produced in the target language is almost impossible, because
         | the subtitles never match.
         | 
         | However there's s difference between CC (close captions) and
         | subtitles, with the former being the verbatim representation
         | (including sfx, music etc.) in my experience.
         | 
         | I already commented [0] on this 2 years ago.
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27420959#27435311
        
           | phil294 wrote:
           | Correct, and you can find CCs more likely on movies and shows
           | that were shot in the respective language itself. For
           | example, the stuff from
           | https://www.netflix.com/browse/genre/100396 is much more
           | likely to have 100% accurate captions if your goal is to
           | learn Spanish
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | I found dubbed shows significantly easier to listen then
           | native shows. It is actually easier to learn from those then
           | from native shows. Dubbing is almost always better pronounced
           | and less mixed with background sounds.
           | 
           | Also, the claim that it is impossible to learn if you don't
           | have perfect cc subtitle in target language is absurd. You
           | can use subtitles in own language to get the meaning.
        
       | nosefrog wrote:
       | My friend's startup is similar but for YouTube videos:
       | polyglatte.com
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | It supports youtube and other platforms
         | 
         | https://www.languagereactor.com/
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-06 23:00 UTC)