[HN Gopher] Are sockets the wave of the future? (1990)
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       Are sockets the wave of the future? (1990)
        
       Author : Lammy
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2023-05-07 22:36 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (groups.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (groups.google.com)
        
       | ajaimk wrote:
       | Can someone explain how Google Groups has posts from 1990?
        
         | ChrisClark wrote:
         | They bought all the Usenet archives, I forget what company it
         | was though, Dejanews?
        
         | smcameron wrote:
         | It's (some of) the old DejaNews stuff.
        
       | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
       | So many software solutions have promised to be the future and
       | failed. If you write software with APIs that are a few years old
       | already, you'll not have to worry about it.
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | You still have to pick the right one of the older APIs, though.
         | In the 90s there were plenty of other networking protocols and
         | APIs to choose from but TCP/IP and sockets won out.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | davidw wrote:
       | Wow, some famous people on that thread:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Bernstein
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Vogels
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Spencer
       | 
       | Jump out immediately, maybe there are others.
        
         | xyzzy123 wrote:
         | To save anyone else the lookup, djb was not quite 19 yet :)
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | That was the fun thing about Usenet back then - lots of open
         | exchange between key people and anyone could join in (which
         | eventually was its undoing).
        
           | bigdict wrote:
           | IRC is still like that.
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | Meta: The "opposing arrows" icon is Expand All. Next to the
       | Subscribe checkbox. It was non-obvious to me.
        
       | NelsonMinar wrote:
       | For anyone needing context, STREAMS was SysV's competing API for
       | I/O. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STREAMS
        
         | JohnMakin wrote:
         | so I'm guessing this response nailed why it didn't catch on:
         | 
         | >Regardless of what the wave of the future is, presently if you
         | write to the TLI interface you won't be able to compile your
         | code on a socket-only system whereas if you use the socket
         | interface you'll be portable to most TLI systems (since they
         | usually come with socket interface libraries). If you aren't
         | concerned about optimal efficiency, writing to the socket
         | interface now would be more portable.
        
           | dan-robertson wrote:
           | My understanding was that the thinking at the time was that
           | the IP family protocols (ie tcp, udp, etc) would soon be
           | replaced by OSI protocols and the sockets api was too tightly
           | coupled with IP protocols and so your applications would need
           | more difficult upgrades in the future if you wrote them
           | against sockets. But your quotation disagrees with that
           | claim. I think part of the implied benefit of the epic
           | library is that it would seamlessly transition when the new
           | OSI protocols were used.
           | 
           | Obviously, we now know that the OSI protocols didn't get used
           | (unless you count ldap or x509 or everyone talking about
           | layers all the time) and so the more flexible api was not
           | required.
        
           | thriftwy wrote:
           | > The disadvantage is that you can't write programs like FTP
           | or sendmail using the RPC protocol. Not programs that will
           | interoperate with other FTP's and sendmails, at any rate.
           | 
           | > While RPC is good for some things, it is not the answer to
           | all the networking problems. Sometimes you just gotta write
           | at a fairly low level to interoperate with other programs.
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X/Open_Transport_Interface
         | describes the (slight successor to) the TLI api mentioned and
         | has a shallow comparison table to tcp.
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-08 23:00 UTC)