[HN Gopher] Companies hide negative news with unrelated press re...
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Companies hide negative news with unrelated press releases
alongside SEC filings
Author : orhmeh09
Score : 78 points
Date : 2023-05-09 17:07 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.nd.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.nd.edu)
| dpflan wrote:
| How can a lay-person investor get as-soon-as-possible access to
| recently filed form 8-K? What's the gate and delay time?
| xwdv wrote:
| Before you think about making something that quickly reads 8-K
| filings and acts upon it: don't bother. A bunch of entities are
| already doing this way faster than you ever can through various
| methods and by the time you get the data the opportunity to act
| is gone.
| neilv wrote:
| Despite being a Boglehead (total-market index investor), who
| thinks that's the best tablescraps I can get, when I can't be
| in the club of the people who're making the real money from
| the systems...
|
| I have idly wondered whether there's an viable opportunity to
| exploit _retail investors who 're being manipulated/misled_
| (by, e.g., MSM financial 'news', stock-picker personalities,
| bloggers, WSB, etc.).
|
| Then I realize I was considering actively profiting off the
| misery of other retail investors, and decide to just stick to
| my index funds.
| n2d4 wrote:
| > I have idly wondered whether there's an viable
| opportunity to exploit retail investors who're being
| manipulated/misled (by, e.g., MSM financial 'news', stock-
| picker personalities, bloggers, WSB, etc.).
|
| Generally, this idea doesn't work because
| "manipulated"/misled retail investors will still be right
| 50% of the time. Being bad at trading gets you zero EV, not
| negative.
|
| But if you look closely, those retail investors pay fees
| and spread, and if you find a way to collect those, you
| have a strategy. Usually, spread protects the security
| seller against adverse selection and market movements. But
| if you sell to someone who certainly doesn't know more than
| you do, you can just collect the spread without taking any
| of the risks. This is why payment-for-order-flow is viable,
| and why retail traders get lower fees on platforms like
| Robinhood than professional traders on platforms like IBKR
| Pro.
|
| Whatever you do, you're probably not going to find a better
| strategy than the multi-billion dollar hedge funds trying
| to do the exact same thing but with a team of 200, and
| you'd just end up as one of those "retail investors" you'd
| try to exploit. Boglehead is the smart choice.
| andylynch wrote:
| The Inverse Cramer ETF (SJIM) would be right up your alley.
| 317070 wrote:
| I believe the current SOTA is to submit trades in the order
| of 10ms after the document is available online. In that time
| they downloaded the file, ran sentiment analysis on it and
| ran the numbers, decided which way to go and sent the trades
| to the market.
|
| It's worth every penny to be first, but unless you have a lot
| of pennies, you won't be first.
| rekttrader wrote:
| Generally 24-48 hours depending on when Edgar updates. You can
| also download the daily filings directly from the sec.... it's
| what Bloomberg does.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| SEC's EDGAR database has the filings available to everyone the
| moment they're released. It will take you 5-10x longer to press
| F5 than it takes a bank/hedge fund to have a bot ingest the
| news and trade off of the new information. Even if you could
| ingest the information instantly, your orders will be slower
| than the people who are co-located within the same data center
| as the exchange, or the folks who set up private microwave
| relay networks between Chicago and NYC.
| siftrics wrote:
| All 8-Ks are available to the public on the SEC's EDGAR
| wesbite. As far as I know, 8-Ks are posted there on the day of
| filing. That could be wrong and there may be a quicker way to
| get them.
| breput wrote:
| This is practically real time: https://www.sec.gov/cgi-
| bin/browse-edgar?company=&CIK=&type=...
|
| also available as an RSS/Atom format feed:
| https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcurrent&C...
|
| There is also a paid-for service called PDS
| (https://www.sec.gov/oit/announcement/public-dissemination-
| se...) which isn't necessarily any faster but can be more
| reliable.
| est31 wrote:
| Your first two links don't push the message though, so you
| have to keep refreshing the site quickly.
| TylerE wrote:
| Push is expensive (in volume) so it's not really surprising
| they don't offer it for free.
| throwaway50603 wrote:
| Isn't it more expensive to have many people poll
| frequently?
| gadflyinyoureye wrote:
| Might not. Caching plus nginx would allow pretty decent
| performance. Not sure how expensive misses would be.
| breput wrote:
| The entire public sec.gov site, including filing data, is
| served from the Akamai CDN.
|
| But there is also an AUP
| (https://www.sec.gov/os/accessing-edgar-data) which
| limits the number of requests per second, which in
| reality is quite a bit less than is documented.
| TylerE wrote:
| Vs push where someone sets up to receive it and then...
| never turns it off?
| breput wrote:
| If that is a problem and it is worth it to you, you pay for
| PDS - https://www.sec.gov/info/edgar/pds-new-
| subscriber-040819.pdf
| scrum-treats wrote:
| Thanks for the links.
|
| Interestingly, I noticed Amazon's CEO of Retail, Doug
| Herrington, dumping sizable amounts of Amazon stock[1].
|
| This activity is coupled with growing complaints about
| Amazon's quality of goods[2], delivery[3][6] and ability to
| return those goods[2][4][5][8][9]. Amazon is now requiring
| customers to file a police report in order for their credible
| return to be accepted[7][10][11]. Amazon is also canceling
| union-backed delivery contracts[12], choosing instead to
| offer customers $10 to pick up their packages[13].
|
| Oh, and tons of people are reportedly canceling Prime
| memberships[14].
|
| Should we consider this salient signal of a downturn for
| Amazon?
|
| [1]https://www.benzinga.com/sec/insider-
| trades/search/index?com.... [2]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazo
| nprime/comments/13cieyc/receiv... [3]https://www.reddit.com/r
| /amazonprime/comments/13cjvq7/update... [4]https://www.reddit
| .com/r/amazonprime/comments/13c1hei/the_er... [5]https://www.
| reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/13cbd31/return... [6]https:
| //www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/13calra/thats_... [7]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/xiaiqe/amazon_.
| .. [8]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/13avfyg/a
| mazon... [9]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comments/133
| 8hzs/amazon... [10]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprime/comme
| nts/y457gw/amazon_... [11]https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonprim
| e/search/?q=police+report... [12]https://www.reddit.com/r/Ama
| zonDSPDrivers/comments/136jfe9/a... [13]https://www.reddit.co
| m/r/technews/comments/13cmrh8/amazon_of... [14]https://www.re
| ddit.com/r/amazonprime/search/?q=cancel+prime&...
| thunky wrote:
| Your links don't reveal _growing complaints_ , they're just
| complaints people posted to Reddit.
|
| Of course there will be tons of complaints, Amazon is huge.
| Picking out a few of them is meaningless.
| rmah wrote:
| There's no delay, they're available immediately to everyone on
| the SEC EDGAR site (https://www.sec.gov/edgar).
| hbcondo714 wrote:
| There are over 30 different types[1] of 8Ks and receiving
| notifications on all of them will inundate your inbox. It's a
| shameless plug but my freemium 'lay-person investor' site[2]
| will allow you to filter and select which 8Ks to view and
| receive notifications on. For example, you can receive an email
| every time a company files an event about a Bankruptcy /
| Receivership: https://last10k.com/stock-screeners/bankruptcy-
| receivership
|
| [1] https://www.sec.gov/answers/form8k.htm
|
| [2] https://last10k.com
| actionfromafar wrote:
| And Boris Johnson makes model buses out of old cardboard and
| paint. Right...
| [deleted]
| kikokikokiko wrote:
| Companies astroturffing bad news is the rule on every aspect of
| their business, not just sec fillings. An example: down here in
| Brazil, and pretty much in all of Latin America, CocaCola changed
| their formula on the classic Coke, reducing the ammount of sugar
| and mixing it with artificial sweeteners. They started rolling
| out this change mid 2021, and for someone that absolutely hates
| the after taste of artificial sweeteners like me, it was an
| obvious change. I haven't had a Coke since, to me it's dead. But
| anyways, if you try to find any mention about the change in the
| formulation of CocaCola on the brazilian version of Google, you
| only find articles about the new "Zero Sugar Coke" formula, and
| no news AT ALL about the change to the original Coke. Even in
| Facebook and Twitter, any search for "coke changed formula"
| always retrieves posts about the new formula of Coke Zero on the
| first results. These companies have gaslighting departments,
| that's part of being a corporation in 2023.
| lax4ever wrote:
| You mean companies are trying to bury bad press?!
|
| What's next, the White House only giving press credentials to
| "professional" news outlets?
| nico wrote:
| Will at any point we be able to build a system that won't be
| gamed?
|
| ie. A system whose incentives are perfectly aligned with its
| operators and users incentives?
| boringg wrote:
| Never. We are humans - humans are by our very nature dynamic.
| nico wrote:
| You mean we have to always oppose someone else's incentives?
|
| Or we always have to see someone else's incentives as an
| opposition to ours?
|
| What does dynamic nature imply?
|
| Can't a system be dynamic?
| advisedwang wrote:
| In system/process design, you generally need feedback in a
| system to operate optimally. Rather than try and create a
| system that can be set up and left alone - which will
| eventually get gamed or otherwise become unfit over time - we
| should aim to have feedback to continuously adjust and improve
| our systems.
|
| For the highest level functions of our society, this feedback
| is humans and politics. We need a politics that allows issues
| in the financial system (and all other societal systems) to be
| assessed and changed over time, responsive to the needs of the
| people.
| tlrobinson wrote:
| If I had a little more time I'd make a Twitter bot that used an
| LLM to extract unrelated / negative news from SEC filings and
| post it.
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(page generated 2023-05-09 23:00 UTC)