[HN Gopher] Cedar policy language is now open source
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       Cedar policy language is now open source
        
       Author : hakejam
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2023-05-10 17:47 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cedarpolicy.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cedarpolicy.com)
        
       | sakesun wrote:
       | The website is neat.
        
       | mjb wrote:
       | One angle on this I'm particularly excited about is the formal
       | methods/automated reasoning work the team did on Cedar:
       | https://www.amazon.science/blog/how-we-built-cedar-with-auto...
       | 
       | "We want to assure developers that Cedar's authorization
       | decisions will be correct. To provide that assurance, we follow a
       | two-part process we call verification-guided development when
       | we're working on Cedar. First, we use automated reasoning to
       | prove important correctness properties about formal models of
       | Cedar's components. Second, we use differential random testing to
       | show that the models match the production code."
        
         | iou wrote:
         | Yes&
         | 
         | If you like that angle I think you'd really like the part of
         | this talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6pPcnLuOXY from
         | Emina Torlak, goes into how they were able to have duel
         | implementations to get both performance and formal correctness.
        
       | stev678923 wrote:
       | Great website-- its my favorite part!
        
       | jzelinskie wrote:
       | Congratulations on the OSS launch! Was it always in the cards to
       | open source Cedar?
       | 
       | I'm excited to see you've found a way to bring verification that
       | exists in non-policy-based authorization solutions to Cedar. Was
       | that functionality the driving factor that made the team create
       | something new instead of leveraging the widely adopted
       | Rego/OPA[0] stack for policy?
       | 
       | It looks like this talk[1] briefly covers why you made Cedar, but
       | I'd be eager to hear more about the trade-offs in design, because
       | other policy languages are leveraging decades of formal research
       | on Datalog.
       | 
       | Disclosure: I work on SpiceDB[2], an authorization database
       | inspired by Google's Zanzibar system[3], but I wouldn't say Cedar
       | is directly competitive as SpiceDB is not a policy-based system.
       | 
       | [0]: https://www.openpolicyagent.org/docs/latest/policy-language/
       | 
       | [1]: https://youtu.be/k6pPcnLuOXY?t=2037
       | 
       | [2]: https://github.com/authzed/spicedb
       | 
       | [3]: https://zanzibar.tech
        
         | orweis wrote:
         | I agree with you re:"I wouldn't say Cedar is directly
         | competitive as SpiceDB" - I think Zanzibar and SpiceDB in
         | particular can work well together with Cedar / OPA. By syncing
         | SpiceDB via OPAL[0] into edge nodes with Cedar-agents[1].
         | 
         | [0]: https://github.com/permitio/opal
         | 
         | [1]: https://github.com/permitio/cedar-agent
        
       | aseipp wrote:
       | Really exciting to see this and the recent renewed interest in
       | more expressive ACL systems re: policy and (alternatively)
       | relational access control.
       | 
       | The pedigree of Cedar is also really interesting to me, coming
       | from the angle that Torlak was previously part of the UNSAT group
       | @ Washington, and was the developer of Rosette. I was hoping
       | there might be a semantic description of Cedar using Rosette as
       | well! Maybe writing one would be a good challenge...
        
       | flurie wrote:
       | I tried Cedar out for a small research project when it was first
       | announced, and it felt incredibly clumsy compared to what I could
       | have done in OPA. That was probably 8-9 months ago, so things may
       | have changed.
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | Why do all the web pages have Amazon copyright footers?
        
         | jffry wrote:
         | Because it's a library made by AWS:
         | https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2023/05/cedar-ope...
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _AWS Creates New Policy-Based Access Control Language Cedar_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34865768 - Feb 2023 (83
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Cedar: A New Policy Language_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34449828 - Jan 2023 (3
       | comments)
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-10 23:01 UTC)