[HN Gopher] Clinical trial of mRNA universal influenza vaccine c...
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       Clinical trial of mRNA universal influenza vaccine candidate begins
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2023-05-15 20:42 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nih.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nih.gov)
        
       | smallmouth wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | Yeah, that's literally the point of the study, recruiting a
         | small group of people to go first and see how it goes.
        
       | JohnFen wrote:
       | I was hit hard by my first covid booster, and every traditional
       | flu shot I've ever had has made me as sick as I've been from the
       | flu itself (which is why I don't get flu shots anymore).
       | 
       | I wonder if an mRNA flu shot would be twice as bad, or better, in
       | terms of impact on my health?
        
         | weaksauce wrote:
         | there's a lot of people that get a bad cold and think it's the
         | flu. the actual flu can be insanely debilitating. (some get a
         | lighter infectious dose and they escape a real bad case though)
        
         | valianteffort wrote:
         | I got covid in early 2021, and got the J&J shot at the end of
         | the year. In both cases I had a fever, except the J&J lasted
         | two days vs actual covid that lasted one. I have not been sick
         | with covid since then.
         | 
         | I have never had a flu shot, and also never had the flu in over
         | thirty years. I just don't see why I should get myself sick to
         | risk not getting sick(er)? Anytime I mention this people call
         | me antivax.
         | 
         | I was never skeptical about taking shots until the way the
         | government handled covid. There is no chance I will take
         | something that hasn't been thoroughly tested and proven to
         | actually work the way our standard immunization schedule does.
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | > which is why I don't get flu shots anymore
         | 
         | You could try one of the non-egg based vaccines and see if that
         | helps with your side effects for example Flublok
         | Quadrivalent[0]
         | 
         | [0] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/qa_flublok-vaccine.htm
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | Yeah, I might. Friends have suggested such alternatives to me
           | as well. I'm not opposed, but I also am not highly motivated
           | to try, because I haven't actually come down with the flu
           | since my children grew up and moved out a couple of decades
           | ago.
        
         | theGnuMe wrote:
         | That's why the do these studies. But more seriously ask your
         | doctor.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | JoeAltmaier wrote:
         | It's funny, flu shots can make you feel sick. That's your body
         | reacting and your immune system adjusting.
         | 
         | But compared to _actually getting the flu_ , you get to skip
         | the part where the disease eats at your organs and rips through
         | your body destroying things.
         | 
         | So yes, you may feel sick after a flu shot. But I consider the
         | alternative makes it worthwhile.
        
       | Herring wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | pil4rin wrote:
       | "A universal influenza vaccine would be a major public health
       | achievement and could eliminate the need for both annual
       | development of seasonal influenza vaccines, as well as the need
       | for patients to get a flu shot each year,"
       | 
       | So, one shot and no more flu? ever?
        
         | dannyw wrote:
         | *Until the flu variants mutate to be more vaccine resistant.
        
           | CyberDildonics wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure that's already the problem.
        
           | jewayne wrote:
           | Viruses don't "resist" vaccines, because vaccines don't act
           | directly against viruses. We're not talking about antibiotics
           | here.
        
         | francisduvivier wrote:
         | Well that's how they make it sound, but they actually just said
         | not annually.
         | 
         | But it doesn't make a lot of sense to me since influenza will
         | be mutating to escape the immune response.
        
           | weaksauce wrote:
           | > But it doesn't make a lot of sense to me since influenza
           | will be mutating to escape the immune response.
           | 
           | unless there is sufficient number of people that take it and
           | it works well enough to eradicate it like say polio was.
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | Unfortunately the only real answer to that is: We don't have
         | the data on either question yet.
         | 
         | Hemagglutinin has 18 subtypes, this style of vaccines are
         | targeting them all, but we don't have data on how complete
         | coverage will be (and or how common a mutation exists that
         | could allow partial of complete circumvention).
         | 
         | We also don't have data on how long before the immune system
         | needs to be retrained (aka re-vaccinated).
         | 
         | This isn't to foo-foo this vaccine; this legitimately could
         | create a "universal" vaccine that could last years with only
         | some minor reformulation every so often to catch new sub-types
         | of HA.
         | 
         | TL;DR: This thing could be great. We'll need more data to know.
        
         | jewayne wrote:
         | No. The goal is one shot that doesn't have to change from year
         | to year. We already know that the flu doesn't have a long
         | enough incubation period for humans to gain lifetime immunity.
         | Which means that even if this vaccine works and is effective
         | against all flu viruses past, present, and future, it will
         | probably still be a good idea to get a universal flu booster
         | every year.
        
           | amluto wrote:
           | I'm not convinced that mRNA vaccines as they currently exist
           | are well suited for repeated boosting against the same virus.
           | See, for example:
           | 
           | https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327
           | 
           | And also the quite disappointing efficacy that the CDC
           | reports for repeated Covid boosters.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | "no annual" doesn't mean "just one". Lots of vaccines wear off
         | after a few years and need a booster. (There's lots of people
         | who don't know about it / don't get reminded and never get
         | them)
        
         | ortusdux wrote:
         | I'm not a doctor/immunologist, but as I understand it the flu
         | shot targets 4-5 different strains. Each year they have to ID
         | what they believe will be this season's leading strains, and
         | then blend together the mix ahead of time. This takes a lot of
         | work, and sometimes they get it wrong and 8th most common
         | strain surges and it's a scramble to save lives.
         | 
         | So I think the promise of a 'universal' vaccine means one that
         | would target all/most strains.
        
         | ptdn wrote:
         | It does mention a hope for long-term durable immune response,
         | but the point about being able to pre-emptively roll out a
         | universal vaccine is probably more important. This would lower
         | the total rate of infections by a lot and allow people to
         | reliably get a useful vaccine without waiting to see which
         | strains are dominant that year. (Also, an immune response
         | doesn't mean complete immunity. mRNA Covid vaccines don't
         | prevent you from getting Covid. It lowers the severity and
         | spread.)
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | That would be nice... recent history would tell us those claims
         | are wildly optimistic.
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | Good to keep in mind, but also those are slightly different
           | cases. One is a low number of very recent strains that
           | mutated quickly, the other one is a large number of
           | established strains we've been researching for ages.
        
           | maxerickson wrote:
           | It's easy to nay say, the COVID mRNA vaccines were great,
           | it's nuts that people hold them to some imagined standard.
           | 
           | Like a single dose is less effective than multiple doses,
           | especially if later doses are targeted at the circulating
           | virus, but the first shot has an enormous protective effect,
           | alerting the immune system to the type of virus.
        
         | adastra22 wrote:
         | Only if you vaccinate all the wild animals that carry it too.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | ortusdux wrote:
       | I wonder if this would be a candidate for nasal delivery?
        
         | CyberDildonics wrote:
         | Why would it be and why would that be important if it's
         | something you need once every few years?
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-15 23:00 UTC)