[HN Gopher] Petrucci Music Library
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Petrucci Music Library
Author : hammock
Score : 111 points
Date : 2023-05-17 19:22 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (imslp.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (imslp.org)
| ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
| What I'd love to do is use OCR on a bunch of these and be able to
| freely use the pieces by rendering them with MIDI. There are
| pieces I want to use in my short films or whatever, but all the
| recordings are copyrighted even if the music is now public-
| domain.
| dharma1 wrote:
| Would sound pretty boring OCRd but I wonder if a trained ML
| model could do a decent job of score -> expressive midi (2.0)
| performance
| sporkl wrote:
| Music OCR is in general in a pretty terrible state these days
| (I've tried most of the options on the market). I've heard good
| things about soundslice[1] though, but I haven't had the
| occasion to try it yet.
|
| [1]: https://www.soundslice.com/sheet-music-scanner/
| mappu wrote:
| A lot goes into a specific recorded performance, I think it's
| unrealistic to expect a film-worthy performance out of a MIDI
| renderer.
| ShadowBanThis01 wrote:
| Sure, but for little indie projects I think it would suffice.
| And there are some great string libraries out there.
| bandika wrote:
| Unrealistic is an understatement, to be honest...
| ragar90 wrote:
| first comment solved my doubt, is not related to Jhon Petrucci
| mlajtos wrote:
| Indeed, this is not related to Dream Theater's John Petrucci.
| RajT88 wrote:
| "related" - possibly Ottaviano Petrucci was some ancestor of
| John Petrucci though. Even he would only know if he's gotten
| into family history research.
| haberman wrote:
| A choral variant of this: https://cpdl.org/
| perihelions wrote:
| I love this site so much. I've been spending the last few weeks
| downloading public-domain scores and carefully curating them onto
| my tablet (awesome tools for PDF reading, if not much else). I've
| been learning command-line pdf tools so that I can
| curate/annotate music cores in interesting ways, or append ToC's,
| or create research versions from multiple editions of the same
| piece.
|
| My current project (literally this minute) is reducing thousands
| of pages of Scarlatti into the curated subset that's Vladimir
| Horowitz' repertoire. As soon as I finish, I'll listen to his
| album again, with all the scores in one place :)
| jancsika wrote:
| Ooh, they have the manuscript for Rhapsody in Blue, which is in
| public domain. :)
|
| https://imslp.org/wiki/Rhapsody_in_Blue_(Gershwin%2C_George)
|
| Ha-- he's got a single grand staff for "jazz band" and just names
| the instruments inline.
|
| Judging by the historical recordings, that included an _extra_
| piano for the jazz pianist to noodle around on, which is kind of
| funny to see on stage. Sometimes people will throw in a banjo,
| too.
|
| Also-- if you've ever had the experience of trying to remember a
| song and singing things in your head in the wrong order-- so did
| George Gershwin! You can see where he crossed out a small piano
| solo excerpt and then wrote it back in after a little interlude
| with piano and French horn. I.e., "oops, that's supposed to come
| later," or perhaps, "hm, this section needs to be longer, let me
| insert a little thingy with a drone in l.h. and French horn inner
| line. Yeah, that's good..."
|
| Near the beginning he appears to have initially considered a
| hacky little Lisztian rising chromatic scale that alternates with
| a repeated octave in the bass. That apparently was supposed to
| lead the band playing the main theme, very soon after they
| already played it. He crossed out the entire thing and replaced
| it with an echo of the little syncopated mumble, followed by an
| imitation of the opening clarinet scale. Then he has a more
| elegant re-harmonization (changing the chords) of the main theme
| and a little subtle interplay between piano and jazz band. This
| is followed by a fairly long cadenza, and then he _finally_
| brings the jazz band back in with a full statement of the theme.
|
| You can literally see the signs of him throwing out a simple song
| form with a short solo break and turning it into a more
| substantial through-composed form. Almost like he got stuck, went
| and listened to (or played) Tchaikovsky's Piano Concert No. 1,
| then came back and finished the piece!
|
| Apparently, Gershwin actually improvised on top of what's written
| here for the debut. IIRC Marcus Roberts did the same in a live
| performance some years back. I'm impressed by anyone who can do
| that live; however, he didn't really stay in the Gershwin style
| for his cadenzas. Gershwin's improvisations are these
| idiosyncratic little polyrhythmic automatons, drawing heavily on
| stride style as well as popular syncopated and dance rhythms of
| his era. And in Rhapsody you'd have to fit that in with the
| classical-style arabesques. It's got to be something like musical
| "method acting" to be able to pull this off.
|
| And bonus points if the improviser can throw in some subtle R&B
| or rap references in the improvisations. :)
| jancsika wrote:
| Wow, 53 seconds to render a random page of that PDF in Firefox!
|
| Chrome-- takes 10 seconds to even load the PDF reader. While it
| appears to have loaded most of the pages after that time, the
| entire window becomes laggy by about 1 second or so for any
| event-- scroll, page down, etc. (Didn't even dare to zoom...)
|
| Native Gnome whatever PDF reader-- anywhere from 5 to 25 second
| load time for each page. (After that, that particular page
| responds immediately to scrolling.)
| tdumitrescu wrote:
| Take from a musicologist and semi-professional performer: IMSLP
| is great for finding quick scores of random stuff, but the
| editions are often pretty shoddy, like either super outdated with
| weird editorial decisions that no one's agreed with for the last
| 50 years, or someone's totally amateur transcription full of
| errors and equally weird decisions. Treat it like you might treat
| Wikipedia as a research source (ok as an initial point of entry,
| but soon you want to dig into the real sources).
| Eduard wrote:
| > IMSLP is great for finding quick scores of random stuff, but
| the editions are often pretty shoddy, like either super
| outdated with weird editorial decisions that no one's agreed
| with for the last 50 years, or someone's totally amateur
| transcription full of errors and equally weird decisions.
|
| You picked my interest.
|
| - what makes an "edition" ("score"?) outdated?
|
| - can you give examples for a weird editorial decision, maybe
| by additionally providing an alternative good editorial
| version?
|
| - what happened that something deemed correct (?) over 50 years
| ago is nowadays something no one agrees with?
| dmitrij wrote:
| In the last decades philological standards for reproducing
| the original form of a musical work taking into account
| historical musical traditions, composing and performance
| practices have become much more thorough. Editions from the
| 19th and early 20th century which you can find on IMSLP
| because they are out of copyright restrictions often don't
| meet these scholarly standards. They very often reflect
| performance practises and the style of their time. See also
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urtext_edition.
| wuiheerfoj wrote:
| I'd add that some of the older texts are really badly laid
| out - often handwritten or in a strange typeface that makes
| them really hard to mentally parse when you're used to the
| uniformity of modern scores.
|
| That said imslp is still a life-saver and playing music
| would be a lot more painful (and expensive!) without it
| perihelions wrote:
| But - there are tons of prestigious, high-quality, Urtext
| editions on IMSLP, because
|
| https://imslp.org/wiki/IMSLP:Copyright_Made_Simple#Urtext_E
| d...
|
| (copyright laws afford Urtext editions shorter terms of
| protection than original works)
| hackernewds wrote:
| piqued not picked*
| rdiddly wrote:
| I don't presume to know what they meant, but as an example of
| something I think fits the bill, I downloaded "Bill Bailey
| Won't You Please Come Home" and the lyrics are full of a
| certain type of phonetic transliteration from vernacular
| Afro-American English (as if it's a foreign language or
| something) the likes of which you would probably never see
| today (e.g. lots of "dat" and "dey" and "throw'd" and "de
| whole day" and so on).
| ThinkingGuy wrote:
| As one of the 10000 who's hearing about IMSLP for the first time,
| how is this different from what's available on Musopen?
|
| https://musopen.org/sheetmusic/
| nemetroid wrote:
| It looks like Musopen, at least partially, created their sheet
| music archive by scraping IMSLP.
|
| I picked a somewhat well-known (but not too well-known)
| composer (Wilhelm Stenhammar) and selected three works at
| random. In each case, Musopen's file is the same as the topmost
| file on IMSLP.
|
| https://musopen.org/music/22022-violin-sonata-op19/
|
| https://musopen.org/music/22020-symphony-no2-op34/
|
| https://musopen.org/music/22021-turandot-op42/
|
| https://imslp.org/wiki/Violin_Sonata%2C_Op.19_(Stenhammar%2C...
|
| https://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.2%2C_Op.34_(Stenhammar%2C...
|
| https://imslp.org/wiki/Turandot%2C_Op.42_(Stenhammar%2C_Wilh...
| ternaryoperator wrote:
| Far, far greater selection. Also, within a given work, there
| are multiple scores published at different times, so you can
| see the editing from multiple perspectives. For example,
| different fingering suggestions on piano pieces, etc.
| whatscooking wrote:
| What is this? Nobody knows about IMSLP? Web site has been around
| since the dawn of time
| pgeorgi wrote:
| https://xkcd.com/1053/
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _The Petrucci Music Library_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22752114 - April 2020 (21
| comments)
| bjoli wrote:
| I am a professional musician. I use IMSLP all the time. When I
| practise I use an iPad to store upcoming projects. A lot of the
| music we play is available there, so instead of scanning the
| music manually I just download it from IMSLP, with score and
| everything.
|
| Together with openstreetmap it is my favourite project of all
| time.
| sigil wrote:
| I play from printed IMSLP scores, but I've never gotten good at
| page turns. What app do you use?
| Bud wrote:
| The app of choice for professional musicians is ForScore, and
| there's really no competition.
|
| https://forscore.co/
|
| 100% of my colleagues are using ForScore on an iPad for these
| purposes.
|
| Great feature set, great support, stable, very fast. And
| page-turning is ultra-fast. If you need that to be hands-
| free, there are numerous hardware options for that.
| whatscooking wrote:
| Buy a pedal page turner for ipad
| kashunstva wrote:
| I'm a collaborative pianist by profession (an 'accompanist').
| I use the forScore app as do the vast majority of my
| colleagues who play from an iPad. The annotation, cataloguing
| and metadata tools are superb.
| analog31 wrote:
| My kids are both music students. Each of them has an iPad and
| a page turning pedal. Don't know why the adjacent comment was
| downvoted, but they use ForScore. The music students go
| through an incredible amount of sheet music, and it's
| cumbersome to print it out and carry it around. At their
| recitals, I typically see about 1/2 the kids with iPads, the
| other 1/2 with paper. It's always Apple, possibly due to the
| "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" effect, but to be fair
| the Apple devices do work pretty well.
|
| You can also just reach out and flick the page on the touch
| screen, not as elegant but more predictable than flipping a
| printed page -- at least your sheets won't go flying.
| Managing page turns does get easier with experience, and you
| learn to prepare your charts -- taping them together, dog-
| earing them so you can quickly grab a corner, sometimes
| cutting things apart and rearranging so a page turn happens
| at a convenient location such as a couple measures of rest.
|
| I'm a jazz musician, and have a Windows tablet, that was a
| hand-me-down. It only has a 10" screen, making conventional
| music notation hard to read. It's OK for reading chord
| symbols. I also have a notebook PC with 14" touch screen,
| that can operate in tablet mode, so I can lay it open on my
| music stand. That's a lot more readable, and has full blown
| computer functionality if I need it, but of course there's
| the danger of the stand tipping over.
|
| Admittedly I still _prefer_ paper, for one thing it 's a lot
| easier to annotate with a pencil, quickly.
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