[HN Gopher] Orb Farm
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       Orb Farm
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 386 points
       Date   : 2023-05-19 10:17 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (orb.farm)
 (TXT) w3m dump (orb.farm)
        
       | ttoinou wrote:
       | Background image is distracting, otherwise, very good ! It could
       | be gamified with points and fish reproducing, like try to find a
       | way so that users have to maximize some kind of goal while making
       | tradeoffs. Like city building games
        
         | ikesau wrote:
         | or it couldn't! i think exploratory play is much more in the
         | spirit of an ecosystem
        
         | Name_Chawps wrote:
         | Game probably needs some way of making the player feel more
         | invested in the game. Maybe you can only place so many
         | particles per day, and then you have to wait until the next
         | day. Or you can pay to get more particles now.
         | 
         | If you could pay for some bonus materials that would be great
         | too. Though I'd rather unlock them randomly from a kind of loot
         | box system.
         | 
         | And how come I can't level up? I don't feel like I'm making any
         | progress without an XP bar. Clearly this person does not
         | understand game design.
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | I hope this is sarcasm.
           | 
           | Not everything needs to be a fully developed game. Sometimes
           | people make things for _gasp_ the fun of it and not to build
           | a comprehensive game that will appeal to everyone and their
           | demanding cousins.
        
             | jsilence wrote:
             | Still would love to see some graphs of the populations and
             | maybe also nitrogen.
        
             | pnt12 wrote:
             | It is.
             | 
             | OP is stating his love for the worst parts of games. This
             | would be like someone saying they love pages filled with
             | ads, chat bots, pop-ups, auto play and scripts which take
             | seconds to load.
        
               | trhr wrote:
               | Or like someone who watches the Super Bowl for the
               | football game.
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | Also it could use more full motion video cut scenes!
           | 
           | It also needs swag: cute little square plushie stuffed
           | animals for each type of element.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | >Clearly this person does not understand game design.
           | 
           | I think you're being a bit too critical for what just seems
           | like someone's fun little project.
        
             | Name_Chawps wrote:
             | Clearly you don't understand Hacker News comment design.
        
               | jjulius wrote:
               | The two responses to your comment missed your sarcasm, so
               | perhaps some of the onus is on you as well.
        
               | Name_Chawps wrote:
               | I usually like to get to know someone better before we
               | start talking about my onus.
        
       | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
       | Just seeing a black screen. Is my sin Firefox, or adblock?
        
         | thesuitonym wrote:
         | Firefox and uBlock Origin are not a problem for me. Maybe
         | noscript?
        
         | DominoTree wrote:
         | Works fine on Firefox 113.0.1 with uBlock Origin for me
        
         | kurisufag wrote:
         | neither. Firefox 104, uBlock Origin, works perfectly.
        
         | SummerlyMars wrote:
         | I'd say adblock (or maybe some other extension) - it works fine
         | for me in Firefox.
        
       | vrglvrglvrgl wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Orb.Farm_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31321645 - May
       | 2022 (3 comments)
       | 
       |  _Orb.Farm, a Virtual Aquatic Ecosystem_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23218186 - May 2020 (6
       | comments)
        
       | xtian wrote:
       | Nicely done take on the form. The original game of this type was
       | a Japanese Java applet known as "Falling sand game". I'm not sure
       | it's preserved anywhere though.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling-sand_game
        
         | trhr wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure I played a similar game in like '95. It was
         | called Logo. It had a turtle, and you could use the turtle (and
         | your imagination) to draw pretty things on the screen. You
         | probably played it too.
        
       | snapcaster wrote:
       | Super cool!
        
       | 01100011 wrote:
       | Fun! Also funny because I've gotten into container ponds, medaka
       | (Japanese ricefish), daphnia/moina and other microfauna over the
       | last 2 months. It's an interesting hobby. The biggest thing I've
       | noticed is how much local bees need a water source.
        
         | afandian wrote:
         | If you like honey, water sources is one of a few things that
         | might disconcert you.
        
       | balaji1 wrote:
       | sea world tycoon!
        
       | SeanAnderson wrote:
       | :) Love seeing this at the top of HN! This project, along with
       | sandspiel (by the same creator), are some of my biggest
       | inspirations!
       | 
       | If you're not aware, there's a relatively deep technical
       | explanation of how sandspiel was built which I found interesting.
       | If you're into orb.farm then you'll probably find it interesting,
       | too: https://maxbittker.com/making-sandspiel
       | 
       | And, shameless plug, I've been teaching myself Rust/Bevy/ECS
       | lately and am creating a simulation ant farm. The project is
       | still in its infancy, and is nowhere near as cool as these, but
       | https://meomix.github.io/symbiants/ for some ants that scurry
       | around and emergently create piles of sand. Pan/Zoom launching in
       | a couple of hours, feeding them hopefully in the next week or so.
       | If you have ideas for simple features I'd love to hear them or if
       | you want to follow along with the project check my profile for a
       | Discord link.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Discussed here:
         | 
         |  _Making Sandspiel_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34555913 - Jan 2023 (10
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Making Sandspiel_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19793835 - May 2019 (9
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Sandspiel - A falling sand game built in Rust and WebGL_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18696291 - Dec 2018 (185
         | comments)
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | Also check out Sandspiel Studio, which lets you explore, edit,
         | and define your own rules with a Scratch-like block visual
         | programming language!
         | 
         | https://studio.sandspiel.club/
         | 
         | Making Sandspiel (maxbittker.com):
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34555913
         | 
         | https://maxbittker.com/making-sandspiel
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34561910
         | 
         | DonHopkins 3 months ago | parent | context | favorite | on:
         | Making Sandspiel
         | 
         | I am a huge fan of Sandspiel, which Max described in this
         | article from 2019, and recently I was delighted to discover
         | that he and TodePond have been doing a huge amount of wonderful
         | work since then.
         | 
         | What happens when you combine Sandspiel with a Scratch-like
         | blocks based visual programming language that lets you look
         | inside and see how rules work, tweak and modify them, and even
         | define your own rules for different types of particles? And
         | then form a community around it for sharing and learning from
         | each other and building on top of each other's work.
         | 
         | Here is Max's and TodePond's brilliantly ambitious visually
         | programmable sequel, Sandspiel Studio!
         | 
         | https://studio.sandspiel.club/
         | 
         | Here's my profile, where you can play with the version of Max's
         | flower growing rule that he shows here:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifyYITDq1oo
         | 
         | ...to grow underground potatoes and fancy flowers:
         | 
         | https://studio.sandspiel.club/user/clanzgor8006109mtjooi348t
         | 
         | I've written more about Sandspeil Studio and related topics of
         | artificial life, cellular automata, and visual programming, and
         | quoted some interesting discussion with Max and TodePond from
         | their Discord server (they actually already knew about most of
         | this stuff, but they love it as much as I do), in the "Ask HN:
         | What weird technical scene are you fond/part of?" discussion,
         | in reply to api's comment about Digital Artificial Life:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33698163
         | 
         | api 67 days ago | parent | context | favorite | on: Ask HN:
         | What weird technical scene are you fond/pa...
         | 
         | Digital Artificial Life -- as in evolving program ecosystems,
         | artificial chemistries or cellular automata that can manifest
         | life-like phenomena, etc.
         | 
         | Haven't done much with it in a while but was very into it in
         | college. It's both a minor scientific field (would probably be
         | grouped under both theoretical biology and AI research) and a
         | hobbyist field with some really interesting projects.
         | 
         | DonHopkins 67 days ago | prev [-]
         | 
         | That's one of my long time interests and hobbies, which I write
         | about on HN and discuss with other people frequently. I'm
         | supposed to be doing something else right now so I'll quickly
         | drop a few disorganized quotes and links here. (Sorry I didn't
         | have time to be more concise!)
         | 
         | A few years ago I ran across Max Bittker's beautiful
         | "Sandspiel", which is a delightful cellular automata toy that
         | simulates sand and other rules:
         | 
         | https://sandspiel.club/
         | 
         | A few days ago I saw him tweet some amazing stuff that
         | resonated with me, which then led me to discover what he's been
         | working with Lu Wilson (TodePond): Sandspiel Studio -- user
         | definable rules using a block based visual programming
         | language.
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/maxbittker
         | 
         | "working on goth fungus kidpix":
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/maxbittker/status/1593868837111451649
         | 
         | Lu Wilson (TodePond):
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/TodePond
         | 
         | Sandspiel Studio:
         | 
         | https://studio.sandspiel.club/
         | 
         | Sandspiel introduction:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecCVor7mJ6o
         | 
         | Sandspiel Studio in 60 seconds:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOA-lR3Xc34
         | 
         | Rainbow Sand:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGTsy79wx4U
         | 
         | Huegene:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltpkO7jcFOY
         | 
         | Flower:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifyYITDq1oo
         | 
         | TodePond's Spellular Automata:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvlsJ3FqNYU
         | 
         | We had a great discussion on the Sandspiel Studio Discord
         | server, where I posted some interesting links:
         | 
         | [lots more links and info in the original post:]
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34561910
         | 
         | Also be sure to check out TodePond's amazing videos and
         | software!
         | 
         | For example, "Screens in Screens in Screens":
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4OIcwt8vcE
         | 
         | "Top 9 Ways to Make Sand":
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDyvjkAs5-Y
         | 
         | "Top 9 Ways to Make BIG Sand":
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mbs0sx3z2A
         | 
         | "Tourism 2: Off-Road":
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvlsJ3FqNYU
         | 
         | "Spellular Automata":
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvlsJ3FqNYU
         | 
         | There's so much more, and I think you'll love it all as much as
         | I do:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/@TodePond/videos
         | 
         | London Creative Coding - Feb 2023: The Spatial Programming Pipe
         | Dream - Lu Wilson:
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/L2U_Sd1qMJ4?t=2579
        
         | Nezteb wrote:
         | I love ants and replicating their behavior in code!
         | 
         | You might like these projects:
         | 
         | "Coding Adventure: Ant and Slime Simulations" by Sebastian
         | Lague:
         | 
         | Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-iSQQgOd1A
         | 
         | Code https://github.com/SebLague/Ant-Simulation
         | 
         | "C++ Ants Simulation 1, First approach" by Pezzza's Work:
         | 
         | Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81GQNPJip2Y
         | 
         | Code: https://github.com/johnBuffer/AntSimulator
        
           | SeanAnderson wrote:
           | Thank you for the resources! I'll add them to my list of
           | bookmarks. :)
        
             | harrisi wrote:
             | This is maybe a bit too specific to Clojure and more
             | generally about concurrency in it, but Rich Hickey
             | introduced Clojure with an ant simulation demonstration.
             | The video quality is not great, but there's an article
             | (sadly not up anymore, but on the way back machine):
             | 
             | https://web.archive.org/web/20160409080236/http://juliangam
             | b...
             | 
             | Video directly: https://youtu.be/dGVqrGmwOAw
        
         | phailhaus wrote:
         | I am a _sucker_ for falling sand games, thanks for making this.
         | Makes me want to make my own, I 've been brainstorming ideas of
         | complex "ecosystem" games for a while but never thought to just
         | use a sand engine!
        
           | mystickphoenix wrote:
           | If you haven't been exposed to it, check out Noita. It's a
           | falling sand action roguelike where the entirety of the world
           | is simulated.
        
             | phailhaus wrote:
             | Haha, already got it! Super hard though, if it wasn't for
             | mods I'd never play that game.
        
       | denton-scratch wrote:
       | Makes my laptop fan run noisy.
        
         | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
         | Schrodinger wrote a book on the relationship between life and
         | entropy that explains this connection pretty well.
        
         | markfchapman wrote:
         | "procratinating, my mind quiet and feels calm, processor on
         | fire"
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | Hah. 16 syllables; I thought haikus were supposed to be 17,
           | but I know nothing.
        
         | rirze wrote:
         | that's a feature
        
         | MattRix wrote:
         | And?
        
           | gooob wrote:
           | the universe continues, it seems
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | PSA: The "clear" tool can clear the wall of the orb as well.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | (2020)
        
       | degenerate wrote:
       | FYI you can use "glass" selection to build walls/cliffs at the
       | start, so all your sand and stone isn't piling into a hill at the
       | bottom.
        
       | selectas wrote:
       | So much nostalgia seeing an "interface" like that :)
        
         | m0shp_t wrote:
         | Win95 was my first!
        
       | swah wrote:
       | That was very calming - your project?
        
       | yreg wrote:
       | I got a placeable Earth globe after playing for a while. Anyone
       | knows what it means?
        
       | monkeynotes wrote:
       | Needs to count days in the green or some other success metric to
       | accumulate.
        
       | blastro wrote:
       | This is so cute and fun. Thank you!
        
       | micheljansen wrote:
       | Really nailed the 90's aesthetic!
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | Could do without the Windows UI elements, barf.
        
       | dreen wrote:
       | Can the fish multiply? If so I have failed them
        
         | onemoresoop wrote:
         | Mine die after a while...
        
       | programmarchy wrote:
       | I got a little microchip. Maybe an easter egg? Put it in my farm
       | although it doesn't seem to do anything.
        
       | syx wrote:
       | I love these kinds of sandbox games, Orb Farm is super nice to
       | have it running directly in the browser for a little
       | procrastination break. Although my favorite is probably The
       | Powder Toy [0], I've been following this project for years.
       | 
       | [0] https://powdertoy.co.uk/
        
         | ldayley wrote:
         | The guy that created orb.farm[0] is the same guy behind
         | sandspiel.club[1], which is a browser-based Rust/WebGL
         | powdertoy-like implementation. I added it to my phone's home
         | screen so my kids have been playing with it for years!
         | 
         | [0]: https://maxbittker.com [1]: https://sandspiel.club
        
         | uSoldering wrote:
         | You should check out Noita on Steam. :)
        
           | throwaway290 wrote:
           | Windows only, unlike Powder Toy.
        
             | Evidlo wrote:
             | Works well in proton
        
       | oersted wrote:
       | The balancing seems a bit off. But oh man, this thing is so
       | mesmerizing and addictive :)
       | 
       | Daphnia are too aggressive eating algae and produce too many eggs
       | when doing so, so the algae population gets constantly suppressed
       | in most settings.
       | 
       | Fish also barely eat daphnia so it is hard to control their
       | population with them.
       | 
       | It is also too hard for daphnia to eat grass. It slowly grows
       | uncontrolled to fill a lot of the tank, significantly reducing
       | mobility and blocking light. Grass also produces too little
       | oxygen.
       | 
       | Bacteria always end up dying off quickly because there is not
       | enough material for them to decompose. It's unclear where the
       | stuff they eat comes from and how the nitrogen bacteria produce
       | affects plant growth.
       | 
       | As a result of all of this, oxygen is always fluctuating at the
       | minimum, going into the red at night often. Which means fish
       | always die eventually, which seems to be making people sad :(
       | 
       | But again, really entertaining and beautiful :)
        
         | imakira wrote:
         | I figured out you can limit the living area of Daphnia using
         | glass and sand, and then feed the fishes with only grass.
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | You have to tinker a bit. I haven't figured out the role that
         | the bacteria play yet, but too low of oxygen means you need
         | more algae/grass to generate more O2 during daylight hours.
         | (And yes, it will crash at night when there's less
         | photosynthesis)
         | 
         | Don't put too many critters in there either. Mine is pretty
         | stable for a few hours now with 3 fish, and ample grass and
         | algae.
         | 
         | Side question: Is it in my head, or are the fish slowly
         | growing?
        
           | fishtoaster wrote:
           | For bacteria: I _believe_ their role is to provide nitrogen
           | in the sand by eating algae poop. Nitrogen in the sand is
           | required for plants in that sand to grow.
           | 
           | You can test this a bit:
           | 
           | 1. Create a new sphere and fill it with water. Add a bit of
           | sand at the bottom
           | 
           | 2. Add algae and fastforward.
           | 
           | 3. The algae will multiply, causing the o2 to shoot up.
           | 
           | 4. The algae will die off because of the high o2. Their dead
           | bodies (purple dots) will litter the sea floor.
           | 
           | 5. Put in some bacteria.
           | 
           | 6. You can watch the bacteria eat the purple dots. Note that
           | the sand changes color slightly as they do - I think that's
           | the sand becoming nitrogen-rich.
        
       | matt3210 wrote:
       | Great gui!
        
       | LorenDB wrote:
       | Who else has figured out that you can expand the orb into a
       | square?
        
         | shever73 wrote:
         | Oh yes, I've also added secret passages in which fish seem to
         | die trying to find their way out :/
        
       | EscapeFromNY wrote:
       | One of my fish died and I don't know why :(
        
         | trhr wrote:
         | You need to build a stateless fish tank via replicas. It's
         | pretty common that a new feature gets introduced into the
         | upstream. You never even see it until one of your tanks
         | crashes. That's why it's critical to have a backup strategy,
         | n+1 redundancy, and a robust change control process to limit
         | contagion risk.
         | 
         | I used to have a roommate that had like 12 tanks going all the
         | time. I couldn't even complain, because I hosted my own
         | kubernetes cluster, so I understood exactly why he needed them.
        
         | 2023throwawayy wrote:
         | Welcome to the world of fish keeping.
        
       | smburdick wrote:
       | You should deepfake Leonard Nemoy's voice for the characters. ;-)
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | Like Yoot Saito's "Seaman"! (Which has The Real Nimoy.)
         | 
         | Seaman on the Sega Dreamcast - Leonard Nimoy's intro on the day
         | podman will give birth:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdIO41Blysg
         | 
         | Seaman (Dreamcast) - Angry Video Game Nerd (AVGN):
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IV8hCvsXy0
         | 
         | Seaman creator Yoot Saito on the fishy Dreamcast AI that was
         | way ahead of its time:
         | 
         | https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/6/20850674/yoot-saito-interv...
         | 
         | >Sega's Dreamcast was ultimately a failure, as Sony came to
         | dominate the early-2000s market with the PlayStation 2. But
         | Sega's machine left behind a library of uniquely innovative and
         | influential software. And perhaps no title was as memorable as
         | Yutaka "Yoot" Saito's iconoclastic Seaman, a virtual pet
         | simulator that had you use a microphone to converse with a
         | moody, sarcastic man-fish, with help from a narrator voiced by
         | Leonard Nimoy.
        
       | d883kd8 wrote:
       | Bait
        
       | unglaublich wrote:
       | Old and similar https://dan-ball.jp/en/javagame/dust/
        
       | pazimzadeh wrote:
       | What are the bacteria supposed to eat? Unless they are
       | cyanobacteria?
        
         | greggsy wrote:
         | They eat waste from algae, but they seems to devour it too
         | quickly, and may even spur more algae growth. The balance and
         | influences seems to be a bit of a mystery, despite the
         | documentation.
        
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       (page generated 2023-05-19 23:00 UTC)