[HN Gopher] Bizarre 460-foot "battery tanker" set to ship electr...
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       Bizarre 460-foot "battery tanker" set to ship electrons by 2026
        
       Author : wjSgoWPm5bWAhXB
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2023-06-01 10:33 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (newatlas.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (newatlas.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pcurve wrote:
       | Target range of 110 miles by 2030. Then 220 miles by 2040.
       | 
       | I'm not familiar with global sea route, but I'd imagine use cases
       | for <100 mile route by small cargo ship is limited?
       | 
       | Unless the energy density multiplies quickly, it feels more like
       | a vaporware.
        
       | adhesive_wombat wrote:
       | Whether or not this is a sound engineering decision, it also
       | sounds a bit like a hack in Factorio that makes sense due to a
       | quirk in game mechanics.
        
         | linkjuice4all wrote:
         | There's the cargo ship mod and chargeable batteries and
         | accumulators that you can ship - maybe that's how they
         | validated the idea in the first place...
        
       | supportengineer wrote:
       | If there was ever a case for sails/kites, this is it
        
       | djmips wrote:
       | I guess every ship is shipping electrons right? I don't think you
       | can call storing chemical potential energy 'electrons'.
       | 
       | This is an interesting concept - I guess if electric cars make
       | sense then this also makes sense for transporting energy?
        
         | NickM wrote:
         | I think most people just don't realize that when you charge a
         | battery you're not literally just filling it up with electrons.
        
         | adhesive_wombat wrote:
         | Tangentially, the book _The Vital Question_ is fascinating: it
         | explains how life on earth is basically just proton-moving
         | machines with flair (and how such machines could have come to
         | evolve in the first place).
        
         | anamexis wrote:
         | Electric cars don't transport energy, they transport people.
        
           | ALittleLight wrote:
           | They do both. Imagine driving to pick up someone who charges
           | their phone in your car.
        
         | jsnell wrote:
         | > I guess if electric cars make sense then this also makes
         | sense for transporting energy?
         | 
         | I don't see how that follows. The point of a electric car isn't
         | to transport the electricity, it's to transport matter. There's
         | no shortcut here: the only realistic way (short of Star Trek
         | transporter beams) we can get the cargo from point A to point B
         | is by physically moving it.
         | 
         | In contrast, we already have other ways to transport energy
         | which work quite well. It's hard to see how this absurd concept
         | could possibly be competitive with them.
        
           | Null-Set wrote:
           | You can put matter on grid powered trains instead of battery
           | powered self propelled vehicles.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | I'd absolutely love to do DD on this project. It has all kinds of
       | interesting bits to research. On the assumption that they have
       | done their homework there must be something non-obvious that they
       | know that outsiders don't.
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | I mean it's a press release. Those don't cost anything.
         | 
         | The only application of this that seems half feasible is maybe
         | some kind of post-disaster recovery where for whatever reason
         | you've ruled out using a generator.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | Even then you'd probably be better off shipping a mixed load
           | of diesel trucks and large generators.
           | 
           | Even the larger version doesn't make a whole lot of sense,
           | you'd be looking at keeping the ship in port for quite a
           | while unless those batteries are going to be charging and
           | discharging at very high rates but that would shorten their
           | life (and hence the number of trips). They are aiming to do
           | 'short runs' only (100 km is mentioned in the article but the
           | economic range is a bit larger) which makes it even more
           | dicey economically.
           | 
           | Their transportation costs per KWh as quoted in the article
           | exceed current generation costs by a factor of three already.
           | 214 MWh is a proverbial drop in the bucket on grid scale and
           | even 10x isn't all that much, and you can only deliver power
           | if you have enough of those vessels to guarantee overlap at
           | the destination or you're going to have to deal with outages.
           | 
           | I wonder who is investing in this project.
        
       | mabbo wrote:
       | What exactly happens if even one of those batteries pops?
        
       | thriftwy wrote:
       | Never overestimate the power throughput of a barge loaded with
       | charged batteries.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | 241 megawatt hours isn't very much...
       | 
       | A medium sized power station is say 300 megawatts.
       | 
       | So if you want to transport this power just a few tens of miles,
       | you probably need a fleet of 10+ ships constantly charging and
       | discharging.
       | 
       | I am very dubious that that works out cheaper than just laying a
       | cable, even through deep water.
        
         | Mizoguchi wrote:
         | It's in the article:
         | 
         | "Why not just put down an underwater cable? That's a fine
         | question. PowerX points out that Japan is surrounded by deep
         | seas, and prone to earthquakes, and says in a press release
         | that "the ship-based solution resolves issues such as long
         | downtime from undersea cable malfunctions and repairs, as well
         | as the high costs associated with ultra-high voltage
         | connections and substations."
        
           | adhesive_wombat wrote:
           | Coming from the owners of a battery factory, also sounds a
           | bit like a Sim City news ticker message: "Pineapple-based
           | economy a no-brainer: President of the World Pineapple Trade
           | Federation".
           | 
           | Then again, they could well be right on a one-ship basis and
           | maybe that's all they need, and this needs less capital
           | expenses like, say, a hydrogen handling terminal at each end.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | That doesn't make a ship a viable alternative by itself. And
           | there are plenty of undersea cables within Japan, including
           | power cables.
           | 
           | The solution would seem to be to generate power _in Japan_
           | not to transport it there by such bizarre (I agree with the
           | title here) method. But let 's reserve judgment and see how
           | it plays out in practice, I'm going to watch this one just to
           | see how real life matches my intuition about this project.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-03 23:00 UTC)