[HN Gopher] Full Time
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Full Time
        
       Author : kevincox
       Score  : 705 points
       Date   : 2023-06-16 14:13 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.marginalia.nu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.marginalia.nu)
        
       | mannycalavera42 wrote:
       | congrats! you should put the patreon link in more places IMHO
       | (e.g. the main page and the various page footers)
        
       | iamthefury wrote:
       | I'm curious about what and how crawling is done. I did a search
       | for my own site and didn't find it (it's a redirect to another
       | site, which I'm sure doesn't help). What's being indexed right
       | now (out of curiosity, not trying to game SEO - that's why I'm
       | not mentioning the site I searched for here.)
        
         | Kiro wrote:
         | I don't think it's supposed to index all sites. If you search
         | for Twitter, Facebook, Instagram or even Hacker News you will
         | not get any official results. It's meant to only show obscure
         | sites but I'm unsure of the actual criteria.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | How do you submit a site? I know of a few good, small blogs and
       | forums that don't come up. They're not on a VPS, either.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | https://github.com/MarginaliaSearch/submit-site-to-marginali...
        
           | wakamoleguy wrote:
           | Perhaps related (or I'm just not sure how this works), what
           | criteria goes into whether a crawled site is indexed? My
           | personal blog has 31 pages "known", 32 crawled, and only 3
           | indexed.
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | Whether it appears to be in English, whether there appears
             | to be enough text, things like that.
             | 
             | If you post the domain name (or email me) I can take a
             | closer look tomorrow.
        
       | gnramires wrote:
       | Congratulations marginalia ! :D
        
       | retrocryptid wrote:
       | Cool that you're living your best life. Every time I leave a
       | company, I think about the ending of The Prisoner:
       | 
       | https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxgJAzCqKOL5yMg39wmtZi52tw8LAXOEr...
        
         | mayormcmatt wrote:
         | Great pull. I've always wanted the courage to slam my
         | resignation down on my boss' desk and yell at them, so a
         | different Prisoner scene for me.
        
           | retrocryptid wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
       | uticus wrote:
       | I'd love to support, but Patreon link [0] on "supporting" page
       | [1] is 404.
       | 
       | Is another support option in progress to replace?
       | 
       | [0] https://www.marginalia.nu/marginalia-
       | search/supporting/patre...
       | 
       | [1] https://www.marginalia.nu/marginalia-search/supporting/
        
         | asicsp wrote:
         | Seems like the link text is correct
         | (https://www.patreon.com/marginalia_nu) but the linking
         | functionality is missing.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | The links were cropped so I changed them with just a word for
         | the service. But it turns out I can't markdown today and I
         | changed the URLs instead of the text.
         | 
         | Fixed now.
        
           | sovietmudkipz wrote:
           | Question for the tester type software engineers on HN...
           | 
           | I like to write browser (puppeteer) tests for user-facing
           | software criteria like "patreon link must work." In the past
           | I've written similar tests for small websites I've created
           | where the purpose is to surface affiliate links for users to
           | click on. My criteria is "from a money standpoint, is this
           | the call to action I want my users to engage in?"
           | 
           | I don't know what type of test this is -- can anyone
           | disambiguate testing terminology for me?
           | 
           | P.S. Browser based testing is brittle but since I often
           | create websites and because I want to really ensure that I'm
           | not 'lying' to myself in tests, using a browser is often the
           | best (albeit slower) choice. These tests usually run in CI
           | and I get notifications if they break.
           | 
           | P.P.S. I wish we had a better mental model for the types of
           | tests than the "testing pyramid." I find the testing pyramid
           | lacking.
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | > I wish we had a better mental model for the types of
             | tests than the "testing pyramid." I find the testing
             | pyramid lacking.
             | 
             | I have a hunch that every pyramid model is bullshit. It's
             | inherently appealing to present any sequence of things as a
             | pyramid, regardless of whether it makes sense.
        
             | z3t4 wrote:
             | Just calling it "automatic test" will do. Or end to end
             | where you have an automatic test acting as a user.
        
             | theianjohnson wrote:
             | Puppeteer, Cypress, (once upon a time Selenium), etc are
             | end to end or e2e
        
             | codazoda wrote:
             | I would probably call these integration tests.
             | 
             | I came across this interesting tool for similar tests the
             | other day. It lets you request websites or API's and then
             | search the return for a string. It's more for checking
             | uptime, so I dunno if it would be acceptable for this type
             | of test, but it looks like a cool tool.
             | 
             | https://onlineornot.com
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | This is fantastic and commendable. Too many good hackers are tied
       | up in a stable job at companies. Building something out of
       | passion is just so different and the end result is so amazing
       | that one cannot really fake that.
       | 
       | Marginalia is one of my favorite sites. Wishing you all the best.
        
       | kaladin_1 wrote:
       | Great! Wishing you good luck.
       | 
       | What I find quite nice about Marginalia is for discoveries
       | outside the most popular destinations for such topics. For
       | example, looking for a weekend movie but do not want to see all
       | the SEO websites talking about movies. Marginalia surprises you
       | with some unknown websites in the first page :) I use it when I
       | want to be surprised by the results :D
        
         | empyrrhicist wrote:
         | Just gave it a shot and this seems really interesting!
        
       | rscrawfo wrote:
       | Both of your top two projects are very interesting to me at the
       | moment. Especially your Wikipedia mirror.
       | 
       | Just today I realized how distracting too many hyperlinks can be.
       | And Wikipedia is full of them! It feels so much easier to read an
       | article without them. Now I just wish Wikipedia had more
       | supporting graphics to help engage readers in a more productive
       | manner.
        
       | zo1 wrote:
       | Tiny bit of feedback, your encyclopedia favicon seems to 404:
       | 
       | https://encyclopedia.marginalia.nu/favicon.ico
       | 
       | Otherwise - Great job on the peppy site and breath of fresh air
       | to open the network tab and see 1 html get, and another for the
       | CSS. And the 404 favicon that I guess the browser insists on ;)
        
       | silcoon wrote:
       | My main question is how you kept focused and motivated to work
       | for two years on this project, especially at the beginning when
       | no one was aware of it. What steps did you take to make sure you
       | kept motivated?
        
       | paddw wrote:
       | Congrats to the author! Marginalia is a great service. I hope
       | they find a way to make it viable to keep going, either through
       | donations or some other model.
        
       | jimbokun wrote:
       | Does Marginalia Search have selling points over other search
       | engines? Different features or philosophy?
       | 
       | First I'm hearing of it.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | It's something like Google but what it kept working like it did
         | in 2002 and then added a bunch of discovery features.
        
         | MikeSchurman wrote:
         | From the about: "This is an independent DIY search engine that
         | focuses on non-commercial content, and attempts to show you
         | sites you perhaps weren't aware of in favor of the sort of
         | sites you probably already knew existed. "
         | 
         | I personally find it hard to put into words, but the old
         | internet and old search engines had this feel to them that you
         | never knew what you were going to get. Each site looked
         | different. Each site had it's own philosophy of content and
         | design. Everybody was winging it. It just felt more personal
         | and interesting. At the risk of hyperbole, now it seems search
         | engines give back mostly SEO blogspam that all looks the same.
         | 
         | Marginalia feels more like the former internet.
        
       | bigfatfrock wrote:
       | You have inspired me for today, I appreciate it.
       | 
       | Congratulations on cutting loose, always a great feeling.
        
       | UpToTheSky wrote:
       | Congrats!
       | 
       | Going full time is the only way to go for a project you love and
       | want to grow.
       | 
       | What is the business model?
       | 
       | How much visitors does Marginalia have?
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | That feeling when you walk out of an office for the last time, to
       | work on your own thing is exhilarating. I had my moment like that
       | back in 2014 and can still remember it.
       | 
       | Congrats to Viktor and good luck!
       | 
       | Going to go and try your search engine now.
       | 
       | Previous discussion of the search engine a couple of months ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35611923 (196 comments)
       | 
       | Many other posts and blog posts over the last couple of years:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=marginalia.nu
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | I would love to (though I'm a long way off it, with not much to
         | walk away to) but I wonder what the equivalent feeling is if
         | you already/previously work from home? Shipping the work
         | machine back? Turning it off for the last time? Unplugging web
         | cam and microphone?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | munchler wrote:
         | It was March 2006 for me, and I haven't worked in an office
         | since. What a great feeling.
        
       | thr0w__4w4y wrote:
       | I left a very good job 7 years in (digital design) to go out on
       | my own. That was more than 2 decades ago. I could write
       | paragraphs of the rookie mistakes (business-wise) and the
       | financial ups & downs, but one thing has never changed...
       | 
       | The "temporal freedom" I have in my work (Gad Saad, if you don't
       | know the name). I love being the master of my own day, of my own
       | time. I don't sit in Zoom meetings or have daily standups. I can
       | get up at 5am and work until 11am, and then go hike, play with my
       | dog, get ice cream with my daughters, workout, etc. and then work
       | again from 7pm until midnight or whatever.
       | 
       | Having (almost literally) full control over my daily schedule,
       | week-in, week-out, year after year, is invaluable _to me_.
       | 
       | One disclosure: a few times a year I do very hard things where I
       | have very little freedom, but they allow me to have lots of
       | freedom the rest of the year.
       | 
       | Not to be a jerk, but I won't be elaborating. And I realize this
       | life isn't for everyone!
        
       | pluijzer wrote:
       | Congratulations with your courageous step. I will really root for
       | it, might even check out if I can contribute. I think Marginalia
       | can have an amazing impact to the web. Right now it is dying from
       | the cancerous growth of SEO spam and informations silos ever
       | increasing in size.
       | 
       | I tried Marginalia and already get amazing and fast results. This
       | will make the web fun, creative and interesting again.
       | 
       | Just like, I think, fellow countryman proving the world wrong
       | that browsers cannot be created from scratch with Ladybird I
       | think you will succeed also. (At least with search engines the
       | competition gets worse every day.)
        
       | mathgladiator wrote:
       | It's a great feeling to leave and set off on your own journey.
       | 
       | Beyond the feeling, it's also educational as you learn about your
       | deficients quickly (or, in some cases, too slowly).
       | 
       | I'm wrestling with this now as I'm building my platform and
       | looking to pivot into something that produces revenue.
        
       | nhance wrote:
       | Im curious what percentage of living expenses are covered by the
       | project for the author. I have a few products generating over 50%
       | of my yearly expenses and am feeling like going full time is
       | almost a possibility now.
       | 
       | A bit too nervous to pull the trigger just yet
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | Author here o/
         | 
         | In general I've had like infrequent but large influx of money
         | from the project, so it's hard to answer. Although I have
         | relatively long runway, no small thanks to nlnet for their
         | generous grant.
         | 
         | On some level it's all a gamble. Either I try to make this work
         | somehow, or I close up shop and keep working as an office
         | drone, because I really can't keep doing both.
         | 
         | My hope is that I'm able to make it work on a wikipedia-like
         | model donation model, maybe supplemented with selling
         | commercial API access (access is free CC-BY-NC-SA). My burn
         | rate is literally my living expenses plus a hundred dollars per
         | month of service costs to I don't have to be spectacularly
         | profitable to sustain flight. ... all that is contingent on
         | making it work quite a lot better than it does now, so I guess
         | I have my work cut out for me.
         | 
         | It's also a weird project, since it's had an almost absurdly
         | positive reaction. For example, many people develop a search
         | engine and get almost lynched on HN for not working exactly
         | like Google or not dealing with some query as expected. Someone
         | found a link to my barely working search engine that didn't
         | properly support multiple-keyword queries and this happens:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28550764
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | If nothing else, you could open with just a Patreon or
           | something. Basically as a way of outsourcing the
           | "subscription revenue" implementation until such time as
           | something direct yourself makes sense.
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | I do have a Patreon, but I guess people aren't finding it
             | and/or have ad-blindness to the words 'donate' and
             | 'patreon' ;P
        
               | abnercoimbre wrote:
               | I recommend saying 'Patreon' instead of 'Donate' on the
               | site's main navigation menu! It does have a stronger
               | effect because they'll associate it with a human being
               | behind the screen.
        
               | Handprint4469 wrote:
               | The links seem broken. On
               | https://www.marginalia.nu/marginalia-search/supporting/,
               | when I click the Patreon and Buy Me a Coffee links, they
               | go to:
               | 
               | https://www.marginalia.nu/marginalia-
               | search/supporting/patre...
               | 
               | https://www.marginalia.nu/marginalia-
               | search/supporting/buyme...
               | 
               | (the text of the links is correct though)
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | It's fixed now.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Please sell something business-like that people can
               | purchase and expense.
               | 
               | A book, software, something. I can't quite expense
               | patreon and others may have a similar issue. (Useful
               | "free SaaS" where all there is is the cup of coffee
               | button makes me sad).
        
               | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
               | I second this.
               | 
               | My buyer won't even blink if I say that I need a $150
               | tool: I can just bill it to whatever project it's being
               | used for as long as I get an invoice or a receipt or some
               | kind of documentation. If I say that I found a free tool
               | and I'd like to donate $10 to the author, no one will
               | know how to do that.
        
               | Firmwarrior wrote:
               | You have my pittance! Your search engine is useful to me
               | for recipes and that crazy cyberpunk network of back-
               | alley Geocities-esque pages it's tapped into
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | petercooper wrote:
           | _It 's also a weird project, since it's had an almost
           | absurdly positive reaction. For example, many people develop
           | a search engine and get almost lynched on HN for not working
           | exactly like Google or not dealing with some query as
           | expected._
           | 
           | I don't know you personally, but you come across as an
           | earnest lone developer doing something for the passion of it.
           | I think that goes a _long_ way on here, versus someone giving
           | off  "portfolio project", "hire me" or "seeking investment"
           | vibes. I've not really found a use case for your engine yet
           | but I am really enjoying seeing your progress.
        
             | quickthrower2 wrote:
             | It has a nostalgic feel about it. Not just the visual
             | design, but how it wont answer questions but it will look
             | for terms. Sometimes you want a less algorithmic engine.
             | Takes me back to my first messing around with dialup in
             | 1994.
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | It's not just on HN either. The project was mentioned in
             | The New Yorker and I've done interviews with German radio.
             | Just the weirdest stuff's been happening since basically
             | day one.
        
           | wouldbecouldbe wrote:
           | I do find it a bit strange you "punish modern design", while
           | your own design is very hard to read. I'm not sure you made
           | up that quote, or someone on HN did.
           | 
           | It's very hard to read your search results. I've always
           | disliked grid views to represent data. It's very hard to find
           | what you want.
           | 
           | Im not sure. But it looks like you didn't want to copy google
           | and wanted to make something "authentic", same reason why
           | often modern design is unusable.
           | 
           | Every competitor of Google just gave up trying finding a
           | better sexier way. DuckDuckGo, bing etc. Pure copies. A list
           | view, with a good contrasting header is the best way to scan
           | and find the results you want.
           | 
           | If you want to keep it, at least provide a list / grid
           | switcher so users can pick themselves.
           | 
           | Good luck! Happy you get to pursue your passion.
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | Yeah I'm not a huge fan of how the magic the gathering
             | layout has turned out. Been experimenting with something
             | more list-like, e.g.
             | https://twitter.com/MarginaliaNu/status/1644058334440443916
             | 
             | I don't like the basic old school google style list though.
             | It makes very poor use of the screen space. This is
             | primarily a service for desktop users finding desktop
             | content, but I still want something that's accessible to
             | other screen sizes. Really hard to find a good design that
             | works well.
        
               | wouldbecouldbe wrote:
               | I like the list view on desktop, I would maybe make the
               | title slightly larger to have a stronger contrast with
               | the description.
               | 
               | They are not my colors, but the contrast is clear!
               | 
               | Mobile I think the cards are to high. Slightly smaller
               | font, and cutting of after 2-3 sentence a read more link
               | would probably make it easier to sift through your
               | results.
               | 
               | But just my random opinion, good luck!
        
               | 0x0203 wrote:
               | For whatever it's worth, I personally like the
               | screenshots of the pages that shows up when you browse
               | random; I think it really helps in recognizing a site you
               | may have been to before. If there were a way to
               | incorporate that into all search results, along with a
               | more information dense listing, I for one would find that
               | quite useful. Kind of a 'I can't remember what it was
               | called, but I'd recognize it if I saw it' sort of thing.
               | 
               | I also really appreciate the desire to use available
               | screen space. It irks me to no end when a site forces a
               | narrow column of info/content and wide empty borders
               | wasting half or more of my screen. Wikipedia recently
               | started doing this and I can't say they're better for it
               | in my opinion.
        
           | ayewo wrote:
           | In case you want to explore additional ways to extend your
           | runway, there is the STF (Sovereign Tech Fund)
           | https://sovereigntechfund.de/en/challenges/ where they claim
           | to offer EUR65,000 up to a maximum of EUR300,000 in funding
           | to FOSS projects.
           | 
           | I have no affiliation but recently came across them from a
           | weekly newsletter (via https://changelog.com/news/48/email).
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | Thanks, nice lead!
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | I pulled that trigger later than I could have, I was earning 2x
         | my salary from my side project before I quit.
         | 
         | At 50% if you can see an upward trend, ~6 months savings, and
         | have a plan that the time will give you to execute, got for it.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | The "main thing" is how hard it would be to get back in the
           | business (i.e, get a job) if the whole thing explodes.
           | 
           | Also if you're going to quit anyway, you might as well ask
           | the company you currently work for if they'll let you go on
           | sabbatical, or part time, or consulting.
           | 
           | That can give you a bit of extra runway/feeling of security.
        
             | valval wrote:
             | I suppose you can go back to any of the previous points in
             | your CV as a software professional in today'a day and age
             | if you never burned any bridges. Especially so if you make
             | it obvious in your current job that you're only leaving
             | because it's time to try your own thing - if it doesn't end
             | up working, people are likely to be very understanding.
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | It's not like I'm doing nothing for these upcoming years.
               | 
               | Dunno what you're doing wrong if you can't land a job
               | with a built-from-scratch internet search engine on your
               | resume.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | In general all you need is an explanation for a break in
               | work history and there are billions that will satisfy
               | interviewers and HR; at worst just say "health reasons"
               | and then sue when you don't get the job ;) (/sarcasm)
        
               | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
               | But can you pass LeetCode :-)
        
       | stinkytaco wrote:
       | This is one of my favorite HN adjacent projects and I use it with
       | some frequency. Glad to see you are committed to it for the long
       | term. Good luck.
        
       | inconceivable wrote:
       | not knowing what comes in the next 12-24 months is exhilarating
       | because you're actually living life with an acceptance of the
       | nature of reality instead of deluding yourself or fighting it.
        
       | uptownfunk wrote:
       | Working on my own project has easily become one of the most
       | fulfilling things I've ever done in my life
        
       | wg0 wrote:
       | I don't know it could be my perception but page loads on the the
       | search page feel almost instantaneous. Curious to know about tech
       | stack and especially underlying infrastructure.
        
         | bornfreddy wrote:
         | It's actually a bit disconcerting to me because it feels like
         | it didn't do anything. :)
        
       | tern wrote:
       | Feedback: I've tried the search engine a couple times and just
       | bounced because there were no results for my queries, and it's
       | hard to think of new queries that actually matter to me when I'm
       | just trying something
       | 
       | Hoping this turns into something magical. I dearly miss the old
       | web!
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | What queries did you try?
        
           | tern wrote:
           | The one I just tried was "urbit key rollover"
           | 
           | Upon closer inspection, I think there's something
           | disconcerting about using this engine in that--I don't know
           | the right words for this but--it filters 100% by all the
           | keywords. So, "rollover" is kind of a strange word, and
           | because you don't have any results with these three words, I
           | see nothing.
           | 
           | I'd prefer to instead see results for "urbit key," given the
           | circumstances. I imagine the algorithms to do this well are
           | complicated though.
           | 
           | Another query that had no results: "multi-band compression
           | maselec"
           | 
           | A query that has surprisingly few results: "qmmf-4." It shows
           | a single forum post from a forum that has probably hundreds
           | of posts matching this query. Why just one?
        
             | 082349872349872 wrote:
             | > _it filters 100% by all the keywords._
             | 
             | IOW how queries _ought_ to work. I am perfectly capable of
             | changing the precision of my query to affect recall; I
             | prefer that no  "algorithm" ruins that ability.
        
               | pcthrowaway wrote:
               | Interesting. I searched for "what is jit oauth" and got
               | no results.
               | 
               | I did end up getting results with "jit oauth" (quotes not
               | in search), but not great ones.
               | 
               | To be fair, google didn't give me great results for
               | either of those queries either
               | 
               | edit: What I was looking for was related to JWTs, not
               | necessarily oauth, and the actual claim in spec is "JTI"
               | (but I believe a service whose traffic I was inspecting
               | used "jit" instead)
        
               | 082349872349872 wrote:
               | Back when people-facing computer stuff worked more like
               | computer-facing computer stuff, queries were simple:
               | keywords to match. If you get too many results, add more
               | keywords; if you get too few, remove* keywords (or change
               | existing keywords to be more specific/more general
               | respectively).
               | 
               | If you're not searching for literal occurrences of "what"
               | and "is", why should they even be in a query?
               | 
               | * this is an instance of an _adjunction_ , which is an
               | important concept in informatics, but I understand that
               | to actually admit the fact would probably be the kiss of
               | death for anything claiming to be a "user" interface.
               | 
               | Lagniappe: marginalia, upon being queried with
               | "precision" and "recall", came up inter alia with
               | http://comonad.com/reader/2009/remodeling-precision/ ,
               | which I count as a win for it.
        
             | bornfreddy wrote:
             | Wow, thank you for the write-up! For me this is an
             | endorsement of Marginalia, it seems to work exactly like it
             | should... Like Google before it got "smart", or like
             | AltaVista. Love it!
        
       | Solvency wrote:
       | Given that this is written on Java and running on a single server
       | with fixed hardware....
       | 
       | Is there and what is the "peak" amount of optimization feasible
       | in Java for this search engine before one would need to turn to
       | C/Rust/etc to get any more performance out of this on the given
       | hardware?
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | Presumably there is a peak, but Java can be really, really
         | fast.
         | 
         | I recently rewrote a heavy algorithm from Java to Rust,
         | thinking that I'd get faster performance pretty much
         | automatically. It turned out to be significantly slower than my
         | optimized Java algorithm, and I didn't have the experience to
         | tune the Rust version, so I ended up sticking to Java for now.
         | 
         | I'm sure someone who knows how _could_ have tuned the Rust
         | version to get better performance, but native code is not my
         | specialty and the Java version was doing fine.
         | 
         | A warmed up JVM is a lot faster than most people think,
         | especially for a long-running app like a search engine.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | Java's main limitation is probably in access to lower level I/O
         | APIs, as well as vectorization support that is somewhat
         | lackluster. There's almost definitely performance left on the
         | table.
         | 
         | It's relying quite heavily on memory mapped I/O and doing some
         | clever things to work around language limitations in how much
         | you can memory map at a time. This permits surprisingly good
         | but not optimal performance.
         | 
         | A bigger drawback is that this type of low level programming in
         | Java is a serious pain in the ass.
        
       | lucideer wrote:
       | I've been trialling Marginalia Search a little and one thing
       | that's struck me is the latency. The only other site I use with
       | similar latency is HN; Marginalia seems even lower despite being
       | dynamic (HN has a much easier caching story). I wonder is it just
       | down to having lower traffic. It's certainly a lot lower than
       | many low-/zero-traffic blogs I've frequented though.
       | 
       | I've had a look at the README[0] for the Java sourcecode, but
       | it's highly focused on crawls, database & indexing
       | (understandable for search); would be cool to see a front-end
       | focused write-up.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://github.com/MarginaliaSearch/MarginaliaSearch/blob/ma...
        
         | adultSwim wrote:
         | That's surprising to read. HN has always felt fast to me.
        
           | BenjiWiebe wrote:
           | I believe they are saying that Marginalia is also very fast.
        
         | thewataccount wrote:
         | How does HN's latency compare for you if you're logged in vs
         | logged out?
        
           | megalord wrote:
           | if you are logged in, it has to check if you upvoted some of
           | those listed items (submission and comments). If you're
           | logged out, it doesn't need to check anything - so it's
           | faster
        
             | breakingcups wrote:
             | In fact, if I remember right, when logged out it can serve
             | cached, pre-rendered pages. Sometimes when HN is down or
             | underperforming, clearing your cookies or opening in
             | incognito will still allow you to view the site because the
             | cache is still present.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | The blog is just hugo so it's 100% static files over nginx.
         | 
         | The search engine is serverside-rendered mustache templates via
         | handlebars[1], via served via spark[2]. It's basically all
         | vanilla Java. I do raw SQL queries instead of ORM, which makes
         | it quite a bit snappier than most Java applications. The sheer
         | size of the database also mandates that basically every query
         | is a primary key lookup. The code is written around that
         | constraint.
         | 
         | Although the search engine is a bit on the slow side since it's
         | routed through cloudflare and I think I'm relatively far away
         | from the closest datacenter so it adds like 100ms to the load
         | times.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/jknack/handlebars.java
         | 
         | [2] https://sparkjava.com/
        
           | lucideer wrote:
           | > _The blog is just hugo_
           | 
           | Yeah the static stuff being fast is less surprising - it was
           | mainly the search results page that astounded me.
           | 
           | > _via served via spark[2]_
           | 
           | Had not heard of this Spark (only the other Apache one). Will
           | definitely take a look.
           | 
           | > _Although the search engine is a bit on the slow side since
           | it 's routed through cloudflare and I think I'm relatively
           | far away from the closest datacenter so it adds like 100ms to
           | the load times._
           | 
           | I've hit the CF loading screen which introduces a big delay,
           | but when I don't see that the loading is really
           | instantaneous.
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | I think overall the system is just really well optimized.
             | It needs to be given I'm working with finite hardware.
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | It's incredibly impressive. Well done.
        
             | playingalong wrote:
             | Watch out for Spark. If not dead, it went into some kind of
             | hiatus. Little activity recently.
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | Dunno what I'd want to change though. If worse comes to
               | worst, I'll fork it and keep the dependencies up to date.
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | For anything handling user input I'd be concerned about
               | maintenance status for fixes. Even beyond the codebase
               | itself, even just maintaining an up to date pom.xml can
               | be important - seems theirs was last updated in July of
               | last year. Very brief manual browse of it shows potential
               | exposure to things like
               | https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-25647 - not
               | sure if that's reachable in the codebase but there could
               | be others.
        
               | brabel wrote:
               | Yes, and it was not that well designed to be honest...
               | the successor is quite a lot nicer and it's called
               | Javalin[1].
               | 
               | Same philosophy but just got things right where Spark,
               | being the "first" (in the Java world, using the design
               | inherited by Sinatra[2]) had a few design issues.
               | 
               | [1] https://javalin.io/
               | 
               | [2] https://sinatrarb.com/
        
           | ericbarrett wrote:
           | > I do raw SQL queries instead of ORM
           | 
           | Love it. I've seen so many cases where engineers with just
           | basic SQL knowledge (like myself; I'm no JOIN god) can run
           | circles around the queries ORMs generate.
        
             | brazzy wrote:
             | ORMs are great to spare you from writing heaps of error-
             | prone boilerplate mapping code.
             | 
             | Which is kinda what they are _for_ , that's why they're
             | called "Object-Relational Mappers". Not "Object-Relational
             | Query Generators". Because they suck at the latter.
        
               | klysm wrote:
               | Usually they're not even really relational mappers, but
               | table mappers.
        
               | throwaway744678 wrote:
               | Not sure what you mean: (in a rdms) a table _is_ a
               | relation.
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | Curious: Do you have plans to bring in FOSS LLMs for
           | summarization and Q&A style queries anytime in the coming
           | months?
           | 
           | Btw, I was half expecting that you quit because of FUTO
           | grants (saw your post on their forums), but I guess it wasn't
           | that. Either ways, rooting for you!
        
       | trollied wrote:
       | The search engine: https://search.marginalia.nu/
        
       | daniel-cussen wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | difflens wrote:
       | Congratulations! I identify with this post a lot. Good luck! Your
       | actions are certainly an inspiration
        
       | elteto wrote:
       | I had seen marginalia mentioned here in HN a couple of times but
       | never got around to use it.
       | 
       | I'm very impressed. Using it I get this old Internet vibe (which
       | someone else also mentioned). Just used it to get some
       | information on a random topic I recently tried to research with
       | Google but failed due to all the SEO crap. It produced several
       | hits of old pages (with the tiny font and the early 2000's
       | graphics and design), but _full_ of information.
       | 
       | Not all the results are good though, it was mostly hit and miss,
       | but the hits were _good_. Will use it from now on.
        
       | thewataccount wrote:
       | Is there a reason why stackoverflow isn't in there at all?
       | 
       | EDIT: Also cool project!
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | I have had it indexed in the past, but I don't at this point.
         | It needs a special treatment since it's not really feasible to
         | crawl, and you have to load it from their xml dumps instead.
        
       | doctor_eval wrote:
       | > I gave it a shot, for no other reason than not being able to
       | quite figure out why this supposedly impossible thing was
       | impossible. Doing the napkin math, it seemed very possible.
       | 
       | I thought this too! So happy someone has tested the assertion.
       | 
       | Good luck! I've had Marginalia bookmarked for some time but this
       | story will remind me to try it.
        
       | ya1sec wrote:
       | Best of luck. Easily my favorite project. Emailed Viktor last
       | year about using the marginalia API for my side project[1] and he
       | responded almost immediately. I use the API to get marginalia's
       | arcane search results for a given query and choose a random link
       | from those results to redirect. Endless fun.
       | 
       | Hope to see it continue to grow until the internet goes dark.
       | 
       | [1] https://moonjump.app/
        
       | ASlave2Gravity wrote:
       | Congrats! I find I'm using Marginalia more and more, it's
       | especially great for researching for novel writing, and can't
       | wait to see what the future holds! Good luck!
        
       | adultSwim wrote:
       | I really appreciate the candor in this post.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-06-16 23:00 UTC)