[HN Gopher] Get It Done
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Get It Done
Author : kiyanwang
Score : 61 points
Date : 2023-06-18 19:10 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (boz.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (boz.com)
| zabzonk wrote:
| meaningless bulshit. use of words like "leverage" is not
| encouraging.
|
| otoh, the best advice i've ever had was from a CTO of an
| investment bank i worked for - "just f*cking do it!"
|
| in other words, don't sit around overdesigning things and
| thinking why they might not work.
| zug_zug wrote:
| Having worked at a lot of companies, I think this advice is hit-
| or-miss.
|
| I'd say as often as not, a good engineer is more knowledgeable
| than their manager in most respects, including the people
| dynamics. Ask your manager for help is often the nuclear option,
| because there's such a wide-range of outcomes when a manager
| tries to intervene -- maybe they misunderstand your message,
| maybe they fumble the delivery, maybe they forgot, etc. Even if
| the manager does intervene it could be neutral or negative "Hey I
| got you some 'resources' who know nothing about the project
| that's due this month to help out." Miscommunication is
| particularly common when there's a language and culture barrier
| at play.
|
| Also, what? IIRC most engineering teams miss most goals most of
| the time. I guess if it's agreed in advance something is a "hard
| commitment" then yes let the manager know early you're not going
| to make it happen. But also the manager should be even more
| responsible and should be asking for periodic updates on all
| goals if not receiving them.
|
| Also there's something really offputting about the "get it done"
| phrase/mentality for public companies. Delivering faster is not
| one of Meta's (or google's) top 50 priorities. Their priorities
| all need to be "This time, build a product that's going to be
| around in 10 years that will reflect well on our brand." Hustling
| is not only not a part of that equation, constantly feeling
| "under the gun" is antithetical to the kind of "Let's take a step
| back and do it right, even if it's twice as expensive and takes
| twice as long" approach they need.
| cushychicken wrote:
| This highlights how lots of managers are just plain not good at
| their jobs.
|
| I'd say that in many startups, MOST managers are not good at
| their jobs, as they are freshly promoted ICs who have to figure
| out a new role.
| thrashh wrote:
| Most people are not great at their jobs. We're all on a bell
| curve.
| cushychicken wrote:
| I suspect good management, as plotted on a curve, does not
| follow a Bell curve.
|
| I'd suspect it's bimodal, and the "bad" peak is much higher
| than the good one.
|
| Ay least, that's how my own experience maps.
| ArunRaja wrote:
| Being team player (guidance seeking and delegation), and the
| synergy it creates is awesome.
|
| As with all, knowing when and what to collaborate is paramountly
| important.
|
| More generally, erring on the side of collaboration is better,
| than being self reliant and sub optimal.
| nine_zeros wrote:
| Exactly, collaborative environments produce so much more than
| forcing individuals to magically "get things done".
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| You can also get help from other people in the team/org if the
| blocker is technical. If it is organizational then talking to
| your direct boss first of course a good idea.
| doctor_eval wrote:
| > the mandate of such a job is not to "do the best you can." It
| is to get it done. And if the way to get it done is to ask for
| help, then that's what you should do.
|
| In my limited experience in large companies I've often felt that
| the mandate for leadership is to position yourself for promotion
| (or better yet, a nice exit to a consulting firm).
|
| The job is more an annoying distraction from feathering your
| nest, and this bodes poorly for the sucker who asks for help.
|
| It's possible that I've become overly cynical.
| throwawaysleep wrote:
| I consider my job just the waiting room until my next job.
| xupybd wrote:
| Oof that hits home. This is something I always struggle with. My
| personality seems to fight me every time I need to go up the
| chain and deliver bad news.
| sgt101 wrote:
| >"is for people to more directly leverage their leaders."
|
| I just couldn't parse this until I read the rest of the article.
| I _think_ that the author is saying "Ask for help from your boss
| when you are stuck."
|
| This is good advice, if you are personally empowered. If you can
| afford for your boss to go batshit crazy and crap on everything
| and everyone including you - then just go for it. If you can't
| afford for that to happen then you need to exercise this advice
| with caution. When you are in a really bad spot then the first
| thing you need to do is work up an escape plan - then you can go
| to your boss.
|
| As an example, if you are debt free and have a good credit
| history go and get a credit card and get a high limit. Then if
| you are fired you will have some funds to work with. It's not
| ideal, but if you are fired you won't have the card and you may
| find things much more difficult. A better escape plan is to be a
| fair way along in the hiring process somewhere else.
| ianmcgowan wrote:
| I think you're thinking of career-ending fuckups (where you
| definitely should try all avenues, quickly, including asking
| trusted peers for help), rather than the article's more mundane
| examples of being blocked, having prioritization issues with
| another team, feeling overwhelmed, etc. If you can't talk to
| your manager about that kind of thing and expect some help (or
| at least some advice/sympathy), then agree with your point that
| it's time to look for another gig. That's no way to live...
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| > _If you can 't talk to your manager about that kind of
| thing and expect some help (or at least some
| advice/sympathy),_
|
| Perhaps I'm imagining it, but I believe this always has a
| side effect of incrementing a little counter in manager's
| head - one labeled "oh, they're failing to deliver _again_ ".
| The first few times around you might get sympathy, but then
| you'll start seeing irritation, and few rounds later you'll
| find yourself on a Performance Improvement Plan.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| Your manager is not an idiot.
|
| They generally can tell who is failing to deliver because
| they are constantly stuck on trivial things and who
| genuinely can't do more and need help. If you go see your
| manager because the team next door is blocking you
| explaining clearly what you have tried and why you need the
| issue to be escalated you just sound professional. Same
| thing if you can tell you are going to be late in your
| delivery and need something specific done to help
| especially if you do it with a lot of time left.
|
| Also I have a pro-tip. Managers intentionally ask people
| they view as competent and trustworthy to do the thorny
| things that need to get done. So surprisingly the people
| who are expected to need the most help are often the most
| valued.
| tpmoney wrote:
| If you're constantly failing to deliver at the same rate
| and level as your co-workers, yes it is going to increment
| a counter.
|
| If you're delivering work though, and keeping management
| aware of blockers that need to be resolved, then no it
| wouldn't. I've seen more co-workers wind up on management's
| bad side because they were afraid to say when something was
| going sideways than ones that asked for resources or help
| resolving a problem. Turns out management hates it when
| they think something is on track and then 2 days before the
| estimated due date they find out "we're 6 months behind" a
| lot more than they hate hearing "we need some resources to
| resolve X Y and Z or we will need an extra 6 months"
| neotrope wrote:
| This is great advice, but getting to a place where this works
| doesn't always happen.
|
| There's a natural incentive to not need help. The more help you
| need to get things done the less valuable you are.
|
| Conversely, great leaders are giving tasks that challenge people
| and can often include complexity beyond someone's ability.
|
| As a general rule, leaders expect people to: -
| make a good effort (~90%) to solve problems (don't kill yourself
| or your team) - understand the solution space when problems
| don't yield - escalate with options for moving forward
| (the more fleshed out the better) - clear communication
| around important changes
| nine_zeros wrote:
| If someone is wondering what gaslighting looks like, this post is
| it.
|
| If you, a "leader", are asking people to "get it done" but you
| simultaneously keep roadblocks in place or cannot remove them,
| YOU need to get things done before asking others.
|
| E.g. if a manager asks you to finish something by the end of the
| week, but the devs don't have a reasonable development
| environment to test things out, it is up to the manager (and the
| layers of "leaders") who need to figure out how to clear the
| roadblock. There is no point pushing more on reports when you
| yourself cannot "get it done".
| tpmoney wrote:
| If no one bucks up and tells management that the dev
| environment is a blocker in the first place, how do they know?
| I've seen way too many co-workers sit and stew in silence about
| problems that get solved as soon as they start speaking up, or
| at the very least start getting factored into estimates once
| someone starts saying "hey this sucks and adds 3 days to every
| week of work". Maybe it never gets fixed because "reasons" but
| it at least stops being an "unseen" problem.
|
| I worked on a team that used a free tool as part of the dev
| process that was just a continual source of problems for about
| half the team, with no obvious reasons why. Every 4th or 5th
| launch of the tool would just fail, and you'd lose half a day
| to trying to resolve the problem or otherwise clear all the
| settings / caches / accounts and start from scratch. Yet the
| team had worked like that for a handful of years because "it's
| just one of those things". It took 2 days after bringing it up
| to management to get the whole team paid licenses to an
| alternative tool. No one had bothered to bring it up because no
| one thought management would pay for a tool when a free one
| worked. But a half a day lost to a tool failure cost the
| company an order of magnitude more than just buying licenses to
| a better tool.
| nine_zeros wrote:
| I have found that a lot of engineers learn helplessness
| because they've been burned by reporting issues to bad
| managers. Bad managers only shift the blame downwards. Why
| would any sane engineer ever report anything if there is a
| chance it will be held against them?
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(page generated 2023-06-18 23:00 UTC)