[HN Gopher] Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Ap...
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Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro
Author : todsacerdoti
Score : 170 points
Date : 2023-06-21 20:06 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| dagmx wrote:
| I'm very excited to see what people will be developing. The
| feedback from early press has been incredibly positive from just
| first party applications, but third party apps are where a lot of
| things will come up that Apple themselves likely haven't thought
| of.
| withinboredom wrote:
| > third party apps are where a lot of things will come up that
| Apple themselves likely haven't thought of.
|
| Until they sherlock it. Honestly, I'd be terrified to come up
| with something that became too popular in their app store.
| dagmx wrote:
| There's also nothing stopping some third party undercutting
| your app as well.
|
| I'm of the mind that it's a risk worth taking , because it's
| an opportunity that wouldn't have presented itself otherwise
| withinboredom wrote:
| I meant once you become somewhat popular, it's got to be
| terrifying. Not necessarily that it's terrifying before you
| start. When you first start out, there's a billion things
| happening and this isn't one of them.
| threeseed wrote:
| Most of the time they simply acquire the company.
|
| And so you have a lot of success and then you make a lot of
| money during an acquisition.
|
| Sounds like the opposite of terrifying to me.
| Kydlaw wrote:
| I may have missed this information, but did they announce
| somewhere the configuration required to be able to develop
| applications on this platform? I'd really like to try out their
| SDK, but without knowing the minimum requirements, I don't really
| dare invest in a Mac (knowing that I won't be able to add RAM
| after purchase, for example).
| etchalon wrote:
| You can develop for the platform on any Mac, including their
| lowest end M2 products like the Air or Mini.
|
| The device itself is running the base M2, so there's reason you
| can't right code using a device with the exact same chip. I
| would recommend at least 16G of RAM, with 32 being more future-
| proof. Rumor is the device has 8 on-board.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| It's basically the same stack as on iOS/iPadOS, so it's going
| to have the same requirements.
| mikenew wrote:
| I actually think the killer feature for this thing is already
| there: a hands-free, mostly passive consumption device that can
| seamlessly switch from full attention entertainment (or work) to
| partial attention consumption.
|
| I think it will work a bit like wireless headphones with audio
| passthrough. I can sit at my PC and hear audio from whatever I'm
| doing, but I can also get up and move around and still hear that
| audio. The audio passthrough, even though it's not perfect, is
| easily good enough for me to hear my environment and even carry
| on a conversation without having to take them off, and I can
| pause whatever music or podcast or video I'm listening to just by
| pressing a button on the side.
|
| I think the headset will provide a similar experience in that you
| can push whatever random YouTube video you were watching out of
| your direct line of sight, and then get up and go make yourself
| lunch while you're still half paying attention to it. Not only
| that, but you can _interact_ with it using your eyes + minimal
| hand gestures.
|
| The really intense, fully-present experiences (like gaming on a
| current headset) will probably still happen, but I think most
| people won't be spending much of their time there, similar to how
| the total amount of time spent in modern, intense, realistic
| gaming is tiny compared to how much time people spend scrolling
| feeds and mindlessly consuming content.
| alfonsodev wrote:
| I thought so but what about the camera position not being same
| as your eyes, would you be able to drink from a cup of coffee
| and coordinate?
|
| Or have a similar experience to the living with lag video, this
| time no because time lag, but eye hand not coordinating.
|
| https://youtu.be/_fNp37zFn9Q
| causality0 wrote:
| You don't use your eyes to drink from a cup of coffee, unless
| it's to check how much coffee is in the cup. Eyes are not
| required for proprioception.
| atchoo wrote:
| You do use your face though and goggles can make drinking
| from a mug tricky. Hot drinks can also mist up your lenses
| if you linger near your nose hole.
|
| My experiments using straws in VR just led me to stabbing
| myself in the gum, lip, nose and cheek in various painful
| ways. The perfect vessel is a long neck beer bottle. Easy
| to get into your face-hole and won't bang against your
| goggles. The downside is how easy it is to knock over.
| paul7986 wrote:
| Maybe the headset is the next iPHone, but i doubt it rather
| Apple Smart Glasses that should be bred from the headset is the
| next iPhone. Lightweight smart glasses that do amazing things
| created by Apple and developers will make everyone want to own
| a pair of smart glasses.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| A lot of people are looking for the next iPhone.
|
| My bet would be there is none in our generation and we spend
| the rest of our life with two kind of computing: one that
| fits our hand and other devices to deal with the rest.
|
| The question becomes, is this inherently better and more
| convenient than a laptop ? If it's not, it will stay a nice
| accesory, like the watch is a nice accessory.
| jonplackett wrote:
| Really curious how the simulator will work for this!
| bee_rider wrote:
| I wish as a developer tool Apple would let people run Vision Pro
| apps on an iPhone in something like Google cardboard.
|
| It would be an awful consumer experience of course, but it would
| be nice just to try and get ready for the real devices.
| jml78 wrote:
| Part of the magic is the eye tracking and exterior cameras
| tracking hands. Without those, I don't see how what you suggest
| would be very helpful
| bee_rider wrote:
| Surely not every app will use the hand and eye tracking.
|
| Let the user attach a pair of mouses (one for eyes, one for
| hand).
|
| > Next month, Apple will open developer labs in Cupertino,
| London, Munich, Shanghai, Singapore, and Tokyo
|
| It can be pretty janky and still be more convenient than
| traveling to one of six cities.
| leodriesch wrote:
| Eye and hand tracking are supposedly the only way to
| interact with the device, so unless your app is not
| interactive at all, you will use them.
| pj_mukh wrote:
| So theoretically pieces of ARKit in iOS are the same as in
| VisionOS.
|
| In fact I'd be surprised if VisionOS doesn't readily eat up all
| of ARKit dev patterns,
| rafark wrote:
| Crossing fingers for this to take off. There's a lot of potential
| applications for a device like this.
| charliea0 wrote:
| Boy the this timeline is turning out to be very cyberpunk.
|
| I wonder how long before people start bumping into lamp posts
| because they are distracted by one of these.
| MicropenisMike wrote:
| In a world where headsets are as ubiquitous as smartphones, what
| happens to social media like Discord, or Reddit?
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| To paraphrase The Economist, "This device is amazing, and now
| Apple needs developers to figure out what it's for."
|
| https://www.economist.com/business/2023/06/06/apples-vision-...
| detourdog wrote:
| I'm most intrigued by the handtracking I'm hoping that ends up
| beig distinct.... eventually.
| mentos wrote:
| Unreal Engine developer here, super thrilled to see Apple
| spitefully choosing to only support Unity with no mention of
| UE. I imagine due to the bad blood between Epic and Apple over
| AppStore lawsuits.
| readyplayernull wrote:
| When Unreal had those super expensive licenses in the order
| of +$200k most indie devs moved to Unity, so the average
| Unity dev doesn't have lots of resources to spend on a pricey
| headset and the expectation of very high quality titles.
| Either too few devs will ship anything or quality will be
| low.
| buildbot wrote:
| Apple _really_ holds grudges.
|
| After the Nvidia blamed them for their failing GPUs, they
| literally never shipped anything Nvidia ever again. There's
| probably an alternate universe where metal does not exist
| because Apple and Nvidia became friends and just optimized
| cuda for macOS
| dylan604 wrote:
| Having a disliked corporate daddy definitely has its knock on
| effects
| leejoramo wrote:
| In 1981, I received a computer as a birthday gift at the young
| age of 13. Likely the first micro-computer in my small
| California town. When I took it to my Junior High science fair
| people were like stunned by a kid with a computer. When you
| turned on the computer, all you got was a flashing cursor wait
| for you to program in BASIC. The next year, a successful local
| business person asked me, if I thought in the future most
| people would have computers. I said yes. They replied they
| didn't think that would ever happen. And they didn't see, the
| need for it in their business, even after seeing VisiCalc. In
| less than 5 years, they had computers in thier business for
| Lotus123. And not long after, they had computers in their home.
| I have seen this pattern repeat many times. I have also seen
| many branches of computer tech die (amiga, os/2, palm....) But
| from my point of view "figure out what it's for" is the
| ultimate computer hackers playground. And perhaps Vision Pro
| will be the first headset "worth criticizing" regardless of its
| success.
| adamredwoods wrote:
| I feel the computer revolution was seen by many. The Vision
| Pro won't be nearly as explosive, if at all. It's essentially
| an interface for personal electronic space, and that space is
| being explored by hackers every where with all kinds of
| devices. So 'figure out what its for' is being explored by
| many, and doesn't have to be exclusive to Apple devices.
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| > When you turned on the computer, all you got was a flashing
| cursor wait for you to program in BASIC.
|
| > from my point of view "figure out what it's for" is the
| ultimate computer hackers playground
|
| I don't have much to add to this fantastic comment.
| macNchz wrote:
| I feel much the same way about having been given my own
| computer with internet when I was about the same age in the
| late 90s.
|
| Following developments in VR/AR for a while, I've felt like
| we've been in a "business computers before spreadsheets",
| "home computers before the internet", "mp3 players before the
| iPod", "PDAs before the iPhone" sort of period, wondering if
| we'd see a sea change platform emerge. I generally have a low
| tolerance for hype, but I'm excited about the potential here.
| Can't wait to experiment with developing software for it!
| fumar wrote:
| Perhaps it is not the next iPhone but the next Mac. It is a
| better at home or at work general computing device. I am a
| cynic and I see it as the next iPad.
| threeseed wrote:
| Or it may be the next TV.
|
| You sitting on your couch as virtual events and shows
| happen around you.
| thebricklayr wrote:
| Honestly, I'm excited to start building AR-enhanced cooking
| experiences for Umami[1].
|
| I worry though: is the passthrough reliable enough to use a
| sharp kitchen knife safely while wearing it?
|
| [1] https://www.umami.recipes
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Isn't there also the issue of the device overheating ?
| accidental water projection ? oil projections ? Camera
| fogging ? The battery dying while doing something and you're
| suddenly blind ?
|
| I think the Apple demo of people mostly sitting on a couch is
| not a lack of imagination, but a pragmatic approach of how
| this device should be used.
| thebricklayr wrote:
| You may be right. My hope is the AVP is at least step
| toward something that could make potentially dangerous
| physical activities, like cooking, safer (e.g., by showing
| you the temperature of a surface before you touch it with
| your hands, as suggested elsewhere in this thread).
| basisword wrote:
| I feel like even if it is good enough it's only a matter of
| time until it lags and you lose a finger. Lulling us into a
| false sense of security is the real danger.
| mpolichette wrote:
| Computers were invented to speed up calculations, and yet the
| primary thing we use them for today is to read the news and
| send each other messages and memes...
|
| I think it's totally reasonable, to expect developers to find
| the real use
| furyofantares wrote:
| Hopefully it's as open as macOS, or at least much, much
| closer to it than iOS. Otherwise the options for exploration
| are limited by Apple.
| threeseed wrote:
| New opportunities for abuse do exist with Vision Pro. If
| you allowed free reign access to the sensors people could
| record the inside of your house/work, capture your face,
| fingerprints, retinal pattern etc.
|
| And again with Objective-C it's impossible to prevent
| private API usage unless you have some sort of App Store
| model which can inspect the binaries and prevent abuse.
|
| So it's ultimately going to be the same as iOS.
| Someone wrote:
| > And again with Objective-C it's impossible to prevent
| private API usage unless you have some sort of App Store
| model which can inspect the binaries and prevent abuse.
|
| A alternative is to sandbox applications to prevent them
| from calling anything else than the official API, and to
| use a less restrictive sandbox for applications signed by
| a key owned by the vendor.
| ohgodplsno wrote:
| It is more locked down than both.
| paxys wrote:
| Computers had a 100% open platform from day 1. Tell me, will
| Apple allow a pornography app for the Vision Pro?
| basisword wrote:
| It has a web browser. You can access anything you want via
| that, same as the phone.
| paxcoder wrote:
| [dead]
| jacquesm wrote:
| It's the users that will find the real use.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Is that why they call them users?
| jacquesm wrote:
| Not necessarily. Developers and product designers assume
| that users are going to use their product in a particular
| way. In my - limited - experience in those roles users
| tend to find _entirely_ different ways to use your
| product that you never ever would have thought of, and if
| you had thought of them would have had significant impact
| on the product itself. The resulting impedance mismatch
| tends to be overcome with ruthless applications of duct
| tape, post-it notes, bending and twisting of parts and -
| unfortunately - the overruling of safety devices and
| lock-outs.
| pohl wrote:
| So -- pornography, then.
| jacquesm wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36424434
| thesuperbigfrog wrote:
| A killer app might be:
|
| "Better Than Life: Las Vegas"
|
| Games, gambling, shows, and porn all in one "so immersive
| you won't want to leave" experience.
|
| "Disney ain't got nuthin' on this!"
| hbcondo714 wrote:
| > apply for a developer kit starting next month
|
| Mark your calendars!
| canogat wrote:
| Piano lessons. I'm genuinely excited for piano lessons on this
| thing.
| sbrother wrote:
| I'm working on AI piano lessons right now (extremely rough
| landing page at https://trebel.la/ while I work on the core
| tech). I am drooling at the idea of integrating with this thing
| one day...
| throwaway675309 wrote:
| https://www.sightreadingfactory.com/
|
| You may want to look to Sight reading factory. They do a
| pretty good job allowing you to dynamically generate
| unlimited sheet music according to your pianistic capability.
| taeric wrote:
| A good keyboard and many great apps to learn are far cheaper.
| And will have tactile feedback. I'm.... curious what you expect
| this to bring to it?
| mellosouls wrote:
| Already available on other platforms like Quest via apps like
| PianoVisiom.
|
| https://youtu.be/kLQsUIS01nM
| jnsie wrote:
| Synthesia integration would be super cool
| dylan604 wrote:
| $20 worth of psilocybin would work on a shoestring budget
| compared to the $3500 vaporware
| throwuwu wrote:
| I could be wrong but I don't think mushrooms will help you
| learn piano
| drewbeck wrote:
| Synthesia [0]
|
| [0] https://synthesiagame.com/
| dylan604 wrote:
| Doh! what's the name for when people can see colors for
| sound?
| drewbeck wrote:
| Synesthesia! The app name is clearly inspired by that
| word, so it makes sense the wires got crossed
| furyofantares wrote:
| Synthesia is an app for learning piano that works kinda
| like Guitar Hero. It's a play on the words synth and
| synesthesia.
| jedberg wrote:
| I'm not skilled enough to do it myself, but I can't wait for the
| AR apps to help with physical skills, especially things like art.
|
| I do ceramics on the wheel, and having an app that can show me
| techniques, highlight areas that are thin or weak, critique my
| technique in real time, and so on, would be something I would
| definitely pay for.
|
| Same with painting.
|
| I can't wait to see the AR apps!
| astrange wrote:
| Both of those things seem like they have a chance of
| splattering on the cameras.
| jedberg wrote:
| I'm sure there will be a thriving ecosystem of protective
| accessories.
| astrange wrote:
| Eh, I just mean it's hard to do AR if you're getting paint
| on the AR camera. I guess you could just keep swapping
| protective covers.
|
| Although it might not matter - even cracks on a camera lens
| affect the picture less than you'd think, because they're
| out of focus.
| jedberg wrote:
| Or just wipe it off.
| chasd00 wrote:
| cooking too, it would be really neat if you can incorporate
| other sensors. like a little avatar telling you the pan is too
| hot/cold. I can def. see things like a floating recipe while
| you do messy prep so you don't have to wash/dry your phone to
| scroll to the next step.
| thebricklayr wrote:
| A temperature indicator is such a good idea. I'm going to add
| this to Umami.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Do you have to tell it the style? Like if you're trying to do a
| portrait, but it's in Picasso mode vs Michelangelo mode, does
| your portrait have a funky face
| jedberg wrote:
| Lol that would be an awesome feature!
| woeirua wrote:
| I think it's very important for people to get out of the HN
| bubble when discussing this. $3500 is just way too expensive for
| mass customer adoption. Meta is struggling to get customers to
| adopt the Oculus hardware when its an order of magnitude less
| expensive. I can't see why _any_ developer would sink tons of
| money into building custom apps on this platform when there will
| be less than a few hundred thousand users next year.
| dorkwood wrote:
| To be fair, the Oculus experience is pretty bad. Mine only has
| three eye-width settings, none of which match my face, so my
| vision is always blurry. And whenever I use hand tracking, it
| only picks up my "clicks" about 20% of the time. It's not
| surprising to me that no one wants to use it.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| > Meta is struggling to get customers to adopt the Oculus
| hardware when its an order of magnitude less expensive
|
| I rarely use my Rift S these days - not because the hardware
| isn't good - but because the software experience is an absolute
| dog's anus. Wanted to play Beat Saber the other day. Turned on
| the PC. 25 minutes later, ready to open Steam. Whoops, now the
| Oculus app says its out of date. Another 10 minutes faff
| because what it actually meant was "you need to migrate to a
| Meta account". Then I had to sit through the tutorials again.
| Then Steam decided Beat Saber needed updating and took 45
| minutes to download 800MB on gigabit fibre. Finally, after just
| about 90 minutes, I could play Beat Saber.
|
| $3500 to not sit through that absolute omnishambles of a
| torture ever again? Sign me up.
| [deleted]
| gehsty wrote:
| Meta are struggling to make a worse device popular. Maybe $3.5k
| is the cheapest a truely compelling headset product can be made
| for at the moment.
| ericd wrote:
| To get a head start on other developers for when there are tens
| or hundreds of millions of users.
| EwanG wrote:
| The presumption, from an investing standpoint anyway, is that
| working on this version will give you a first mover advantage
| for a V2 in two years that will have slightly upgraded chips,
| similar display, and cost half as much.
| woeirua wrote:
| Half as much is still no where close to where they need to be
| to get mass market adoption.
| etchalon wrote:
| It's also possible that Meta is struggling because a $500
| dollar VR headset isn't a broadly compelling experience given
| all the compromises they had to make to get it to $500 bucks.
|
| "Smartphones" weren't the most dominant phone category until
| after the iPhone.
|
| It's really hard to know until units start shipping though.
| lnrd wrote:
| Because this is a first iteration specifically made for
| developer to start to get their app running, so that when the
| consumer less expensive model will be released a couple of
| years down the line there's already an app ecosystem ready.
|
| It's a strategic release aimed at devs and early adopters, the
| consumer level device will come in the future at a complete
| different price point. That's when mass customer adoption might
| happen.
|
| Also Meta is struggling also because their device is a novelty
| without many great software. See a pattern?
| throwaway675309 wrote:
| "so that when the consumer less expensive model will be
| released a couple of years down the line there's already an
| app ecosystem ready."
|
| ....
|
| You think that developers are going to create a thriving
| ecosystem of apps when there's no market until several years
| down the line? Bit of a Chicken or the egg problem isn't it?
| woeirua wrote:
| Just saying, Microsoft already tried this with the HoloLens,
| and pivoted hard and fast into B2B only.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| You don't need a new codebase to have a visionOS app, you just
| need to tick a checkbox on an existing iOS project. Deeper
| integration will take longer but that checkbox will get you 90%
| of the way there as long as the project was built using UIKit
| or SwiftUI.
| chazhaz wrote:
| This isn't a mass consumer device. $3500 is what Apple's
| charging to folks with great ideas who want to dictate what the
| future of "special computing" looks like. This is for early
| adopters pretty much exclusively.
|
| The rest of us will get the apple vision se in 2028 when the
| territory's been mapped out
| dahwolf wrote:
| Quite the uphill battle for a developer.
|
| This is different territory compared to marginally useful 2D app
| that millions of developers produce.
|
| To make a believable virtual/3D experience requires enormous
| investments if you don't want it to look like a video game from
| 25 years ago. It's quite telling that Apple rushed through the
| 3rd party demo session at the event, as every example looked
| terrible. As terrible and useless as 99% of AR apps produced thus
| far.
|
| I would suspect that only giants like Disney could produce a
| "killer app" experience that woes people and make this worth the
| money and discomfort.
|
| And on top of that, yes, lots of developers will produce what are
| basically 2D apps where they take an existing app and project it
| in space, possibly showing multiple sub screens. Slightly more
| useful if done well, at best. Financially likely the only
| realistic scenario for most developers but it also cheapens the
| appeal of this device.
|
| Not to mention that you need to apply way more real world
| scrutiny to possible scenarios. As an example, somebody suggested
| a cooking app.
|
| To solve what problem, exactly? Cooking is instructions and
| timers. Yet with this device one can project more information.
| What information, exactly? Cooking requires free movement, to
| grab items, throw things in the trash, but here you are with a
| thing strapped to your head with low visibility. Possibly wired
| as you need to be thinking about battery during a long cooking
| session. Maybe you're cooking with two people, as couples
| sometimes do, then what? Countless real downsides, merely
| theoretical upsides.
|
| Don't get me wrong? Will the tech elite embrace it and will a few
| influencers rave on about this cooking app on their channel?
| Sure. But that's not my point. My point is that you need
| convincing apps with tremendous added value to offset the price
| and discomfort of this device.
|
| Without that, it will be solo movie watcher pro.
| thih9 wrote:
| I remember the hype about ARkit and that it has been presented as
| a general purpose UX pattern, when in practice I saw it get
| popular only in specialized areas.
|
| I'm curious how spatial experiences will fare.
|
| Also, I don't like that the gesture tracking in the dj app video
| demo seems laggy, especially when moving the fader.
| threeseed wrote:
| From people who've used the device the gesture and eye tracking
| is flawless.
|
| But how those SDK events gets translated into UI control
| movement is obviously going to be dependent on each developer.
| And I suspect the variance in quality will be much greater than
| with iOS given everything is in 3D.
| ctvo wrote:
| > But how those SDK events gets translated into UI control
| movement is obviously going to be dependent on each
| developer. And I suspect the variance in quality will be much
| greater than with iOS given everything is in 3D.
|
| Why is the variance any different? You're provided a tuple
| representing where the user is looking similar to the
| location of their fingers? You're provided a hook for when
| the user clicks (with their fingers) in various ways?
|
| This all relies on Apple to accurately capture those inputs
| at the device and OS level to provide it to developers, which
| they've apparently done a very good job at. The abstractions
| on top of this don't feel very different than those that
| exist on any other platform.
| pornel wrote:
| In VR gaming there's already a huge variance in UX. Many
| developers treat VR as just a mouse look + gamepad. Only
| the top few games design bespoke interactions where you
| move hands naturally interacting with the world, instead of
| pointing at things and pressing A/B buttons.
|
| I suspect majority of visionPro apps will be mostly iOS
| apps with iOS gestures, maybe with one or two 3d gimmicks.
| threeseed wrote:
| I built a number of iOS apps in the early days of the SDK
| and I remember it took a while for the community to learn
| the best techniques to efficiently render complex tables in
| scroll views.
|
| The same thing will happen here except that you have the
| additional issue of learning how to efficiently render 3D
| assets in response to user events. After all most
| developers do not come from a gaming/VR background.
| drewbeck wrote:
| > I remember the hype about ARkit and that it has been
| presented as a general purpose UX pattern, when in practice I
| saw it get popular only in specialized areas.
|
| Once Vision dropped it was clear to me that ARkit was always
| meant to be used with this device, and that most of the
| iPhone/iPad apps that use it are not the final intended use
| case. I don't think you can judge Apple's AR success based on
| the existing hardware.
| pornel wrote:
| In retrospect, several things they've released were in
| preparation or fallout from the xrOS project.
|
| * AR was an odd proposition for the iPhone, and lidar was an
| overkill for its gimmick apps, but it was obviously preparing
| devs and apps for the "spatial computing".
|
| * iPadOS got mouse support, but only with a clunky fat
| mitten-pointer. This UI makes more sense when it's limited by
| eye tracking precision.
|
| * Continuity features. Controlling a nearby iPads was a nice-
| to-have, but for visionPro that doesn't have its own I/O, a
| seamless integration with nearby devices is a must-have to
| get work done.
| javajosh wrote:
| I'm not joking when I say I want to write software for this thing
| that can help you get the most out of a psychedelic experience. I
| think the combination could be powerfully positive (or negative,
| of course).
| erybodyknows wrote:
| I believe Brian Eno created a generative audio-based version of
| this. Each session is a unique composition.
|
| EDIT: It was an app called Wavepaths, here is a link to the
| Rolling Stone article.
| (https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/hot-
| digita...)
|
| EDIT pt.2: Here is the app itself. (https://wavepaths.com/)
| germinalphrase wrote:
| Link anyone?
| urbandw311er wrote:
| Yikes. Imagine being so messed up that you forgot you had the
| headset on and became trapped in an altered world.
| javajosh wrote:
| So, a mundane episode of Black Mirror.
| latexr wrote:
| You'll be back when the battery dies.
| jeron wrote:
| god forbid you are plugged into the wall - you'll be stuck
| until your power bill isn't paid
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| Or just accept that you have died, until the psychedelics
| wear off.
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| Getting interrupted mid-trip must be very annoying, or so I
| have heard.
| Karsteski wrote:
| Why would you be joking, that's a great idea lol
| __alias wrote:
| This reminds me of the time me and some friends took LSD at a
| zoo.
|
| We ended up realising we were way more fascinated by the signs
| than any of the animials.
|
| Then ended up hysterically laughing when we realised that we
| were at a zoo mesmerised by everything but the things we
| planned to be mesmerised by
| javajosh wrote:
| Signs are quite potent signals, static objects designed to
| inform and direct. It's only by long habituation that we
| ignore their power. I'm not at all surprised that they
| captured your attention!
| gwill wrote:
| it'd be interesting to shape the experience based off of
| biometrics from an apple watch as well as pupil dilation/eye
| movement if possible.
| javajosh wrote:
| yes, ideally it would be generative and reactive. There was a
| throw-away idea at the end of Stephenson's "The Diamond Age"
| that altered the appearance of a woman based on your
| reaction, to make her more and more attractive to you...this
| idea generalizes in some interesting ways. Even better if
| there existed a small affordable fMRI machine or at least a
| way to measure alpha, delta, theta waves etc and maximize
| _those_.
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| At the same time terrifying, I'm happy that they mentioned
| they're closing off that area from developer access. I don't
| want the app to know where I'm looking, or how I'm looking
| watmough wrote:
| I have no doubt that Jeff Minter will be right on that ...
|
| https://www.polygon.com/23613576/jeff-minter-profile-akka-ar...
| sva_ wrote:
| If you're actually interested in working on combining
| psychedelics with VR, here's a lab doing exactly that, which is
| currently hiring: https://www.intangiblerealitieslab.org/join-
| us
|
| It is academic work though, so the salary is not very
| competitive.
| bagels wrote:
| Apple expects to sell 150k units next year. I'm sure there will
| be a couple of popular apps, but beyond those couple, what is the
| financial incentive to develop for it?
| diegocg wrote:
| The users of these glasses will be rich people who love to
| spend money on new shiny things
| suction wrote:
| [dead]
| spacebanana7 wrote:
| Those 150k units will be purchased by some of the most
| desirable customers in the world.
|
| People who spend $3500 on a headset have a lot of disposable
| income. Perhaps enough to pay $200 for a VR game with good
| marketing.
| [deleted]
| suction wrote:
| [dead]
| astrange wrote:
| People who spend $3500 on a headset are
| industrial/professional users who will make more than $3500
| in value for it. That is why Microsoft HoloLens, and a lot of
| commercial AR products you've never heard of, cost even more.
| spacebanana7 wrote:
| Apple is a consumer brand. The same people who buy $5000
| sneakers or handbags may well buy a vision headset.
|
| The brand + price tag is enough to sell at least a few
| thousand Vision units regardless of technical
| specifications.
| etchalon wrote:
| Apple is a consumer brand that sells a $50,000 tower
| computer.
| astrange wrote:
| A few thousand sales is nothing[0], and assuming your
| users are stupid doesn't make for a good business even if
| it seems cool to say it.
|
| [0] it's enough for enterprise sales, but they're
| charging much much more than $3500 one time.
| Analemma_ wrote:
| Especially if you're first, or close to first, with a killer
| app with a high attach rate. I read that something like 50%
| of PC VR headset owners buy Beat Saber, contrast that with
| attach rates measured with scientific notation like 1e-3 for
| most mobile apps that aren't from huge megacorps. If you can
| make the Beat Saber equivalent for Apple's platform it could
| be lucrative indeed.
| devsegal wrote:
| Can you share where you got that number from? Is it in one of
| their recent keynotes ?
|
| thanks
| bagels wrote:
| Yeah, I googled it, maybe the source isn't reliable, sorry.
| tcmart14 wrote:
| I heard closer to 600K in sales. But I do think, regardless
| of the actual number, Apple doesn't plan to sell millions
| of theses. At least not this iteration of the device. Which
| is something I've seen parroted quiet a bit.
| izzydata wrote:
| If they sell 150,000 units somehow and it only has 2 apps on
| the market then you could expect an extremely high percentage
| of those people to buy your app.
| grecy wrote:
| You might want to read similar comments that were made about
| the iPhone when it was launched. And the iPad, and the Apple
| Watch.
|
| My personal answer is that I don't know what it's going to be
| used for, but I'm betting that it will be used A LOT once that
| use is figured out.
| atchoo wrote:
| > You might want to read similar comments that were made
| about the iPhone
|
| What comments do you want to share from 2007 that will be
| relevant? The iPhone was released without an App Store and no
| intention to support 3rd party native apps until developers
| demanded it. The App Store was released after millions of
| units had already shipped. A speculative platform of
| uncertain consumer interest, shipping a tenth of the units in
| the first year compared to iPhone cannot be compared to a
| once in a generation phenomenon where the dev platform was
| pulled out of the vendor by demand.
|
| It will be interesting to see how it turns out but the use
| cases Apple showed so far are kind of laughable: photos,
| movies, meditation apps, facetime, 2d games etc. The only
| tangible benefit was "a big screen". There is more chance
| these goggles end up in a drawer than an iPhone which was
| already used compulsively through out the day.
|
| > and the Apple Watch
|
| It's a popular product but are there many developer success
| stories on the Watch? AFAIK a handful of fitness/media apps
| are popular but doesn't it otherwise suck as an app platform?
| jacquesm wrote:
| Whoever manages to slip a porn application by the censors is
| going to clean up (financially).
| faangsticle wrote:
| There's no sideloading? Typical. At least the EU will fix
| that soon.
| jeron wrote:
| If anyone is familiar in the Cyberpunk 2077 universe, it
| seems reminiscent of "Brain Dances". I could see an app
| that can play and interact with pre-recorded footage and
| provide the ability to view that experience in a 3D space
| CodeCompost wrote:
| Dude, check out the 1995 film "Strange Days".
| IggleSniggle wrote:
| I thought that was one of the few built-in features that
| was advertised as shipping with Vision Pro?
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| Just FYI, you can just say Cyberpunk. Cyberpunk 2077 is
| based off of the long-running tabletop rpg Cyberpunk.
| Same universe, different stories/media.
| jonplackett wrote:
| Totally Innocent 3D Video Player Pro(tm) coming right up.
| bagels wrote:
| I agree, long term, if it's a success, there will be more
| opportunity. It might be too early right now to risk the
| investment.
| lvl102 wrote:
| They will sell more than that. At least 500K. You're
| underestimating Apple's pull. Heck buy two. Save one completely
| wrapped. Sell it 20 years later.
| brody_hamer wrote:
| Fs fryf
| [deleted]
| elforce002 wrote:
| I'm hyped, ngl. I'm adding SwiftUI and Reality Kit to the list of
| things to learn this 2023. Better be prepared for 2024 when this
| thing goes mainstream.
| jacquesm wrote:
| I feel very vulnerable with a device like that on my head. I've
| been playing with VR hardware in various iterations since the mid
| 80's and I haven't seen anything yet that managed to get me to
| overcome that feeling. As well as nausea due to lag. I wonder how
| this one will do but at the current price point it just isn't all
| that interesting, it also reminds me of the way Google Glass was
| introduced and hyped and what eventually became of it. But Apple
| tends to have a much better product strategy than Google.
| matwood wrote:
| If someone can crack the VR/AR code, it will probably be Apple.
| Not saying they will though.
|
| It bodes well that Kara Swisher seems to really like the device
| and she's one that has tried all the headsets and been fairly
| skeptical. Using hands as the primary control seems like a
| pretty big breakthrough. The default of mostly pass through of
| the surrounding environment sounds like it also addresses the
| nausea.
|
| You're right at this price point it's definitely a gen 1/dev
| device. Gen 3 is where it'll likely get interesting, assuming
| some killer applications are created.
| ianlevesque wrote:
| The form factor of the Quest Pro helps with that quite a bit,
| where you're essentially wearing it like a hat, and the sides
| and bottom of the device don't contact your face or seal out
| all the light. There are notorious stories of people punching
| through walls or TVs playing VR games, but being able to see
| the room in the periphery is both less distracting than you'd
| think and gives you enough spatial awareness to not really have
| those issues.
| withinboredom wrote:
| > There are notorious stories of people punching through
| walls
|
| Bahaha, reminds me of the time when I first got the PSVR and
| my friend comes over. We're playing an FPS demo that came
| with it (PS Worlds? I think). It's this scene where you're in
| the passenger seat of the car, shooting up people on
| motorcycles that are shooting at you. Anyway, I'm standing
| off to the side watching the TV when out of nowhere, my
| friend punches me in the face.
|
| I happened to be standing exactly where the NPC driver was
| sitting in the VR world and my friend wanted to try punching
| the character.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| My instinct is that this entire product is basically a dev kit
| for whatever Apple wants to release in 10-15 years. Get
| something high quality in peoples' hands and hope the use case
| bucket trickles full.
| erybodyknows wrote:
| I suspect this is the case. This device will be to the future
| iXR devices what the iPods were to the first iPhone.
| rvz wrote:
| Correct.
|
| This first version of the visionOS product line is not the
| one that will be the 'iPhone' moment.
|
| We are looking at the device that will be ready for these app
| in the next 5 - 10 years which by that time the device will
| be smaller that this first version.
|
| Probably going to be called 'Apple Vision' in the form of AR
| glasses.
| jacquesm wrote:
| 'Correct' as in: you have inside information that confirms
| this or 'I agree'?
| dylan604 wrote:
| If someone had actual information of that type from Apple
| and released it on a public forum, they will be hearing
| from Apple's legal team in 5...4...3....
|
| Otherwise, it just seems like a confirmation of their
| reading of the tea leaves.
| rvz wrote:
| I think both of you need to look at the amount of patents
| related to the Apple's AR glasses and their related
| vision products a lot more since it give lots of obvious
| clues about where Apple will take their Apple vision
| based products.
|
| All publicly available for everyone to see. [0] No inside
| information needed at all.
|
| [0] https://www.patentlyapple.com/face-object-
| recognition/
| dylan604 wrote:
| right, you've read the tea leaves.
| rvz wrote:
| The tea leaves, breadcrumbs and obvious clues that tell
| the truth as close as possible that defines the next
| phase of Apple's AR/XR products all to the source as
| public as possible.
|
| Correct either way.
| withinboredom wrote:
| Hmmm... it's light and physics, not sure how it could get
| much smaller. Lighter, maybe. Thinner, maybe. But smaller,
| no.
|
| Not unless someone figures out the contact lens or the
| direct brain uplink.
| jsjohnst wrote:
| > This first version of the visionOS product line is not
| the one that will be the 'iPhone' moment.
|
| You mean it's not a device that's significantly more
| expensive and less capable from a feature perspective than
| the competition at launch (aka the 1st gen iPhone)?
| Palm7 wrote:
| They talked about this briefly on the WVFRM podcast [1].
| Apparently the pass-through is significantly better than other
| headsets they've tried to the point that they felt comfortable
| walking around and overcoming that sense of vulnerability you
| describe. Still, $3500 is quite a lot.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/17-aVWFa098?t=5084
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