[HN Gopher] Show HN: Open-source resume builder and parser
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       Show HN: Open-source resume builder and parser
        
       Hi HN, I recently created and published an open-source resume
       builder as a weekend project. The idea came to me while I was
       mentoring students and noticing common mistakes they made in their
       resumes that I had also made in the past. I thought to build a tool
       to help people easily create a modern professional resume with
       built-in best practices to avoid those mistakes.  Top highlights of
       the resume builder are:  1. Real time UI update as you type  2. ATS
       friendly to top ATS platforms, e.g. Greenhouse, Lever  3. Privacy
       focus - no sign up is required and data is stored locally in
       browser that only users have access  4. Support import from
       existing resume PDF  The tool also includes a resume parser to help
       people test their existing resumes' ATS readability if they might
       not be interested in using the builder. I also explained the parser
       algorithm in an article with interactive tables that might be an
       interesting read to see the steps and logics it uses
       (https://www.open-resume.com/resume-parser).  I hope others might
       find this tool useful and I look forward to hearing any feedback
       the community has. Thanks all.  Home Page: https://open-resume.com
       Github Repo: https://github.com/xitanggg/open-resume  Product Hunt:
       https://producthunt.com/posts/openresume
        
       Author : xitang
       Score  : 332 points
       Date   : 2023-06-25 17:00 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.open-resume.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.open-resume.com)
        
       | juliusgeo wrote:
       | Just checked out the resume scanner and it's very nice! I
       | appreciate how it only took a few clicks to get from the home
       | page to a real example with my own resume. It also works much
       | faster than the resume parsers I've used before (most of which
       | take on the order of 10 seconds just to get from the upload
       | screen to a parsed output). One minor nit is that I think the
       | resume scanner deserves its own button on the front page--the
       | current placement makes it seem like an addendum to the "no sign
       | up requirement" imo.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Thanks so much for your kind words. Great feedback on the
         | resume parser being not as noticeable on the home page. I just
         | created an issue to track this feedback:
         | https://github.com/xitanggg/open-resume/issues/3. I initially
         | think people might be more interested in using the resume
         | builder so I haven't thought about making the resume parser
         | more clear. Would you mind sharing more about your use case of
         | the resume scanner?
        
           | juliusgeo wrote:
           | Yeah, I see what you mean. In my case it is because I use
           | LaTeX to create my resume, and my main concern is just that
           | in some ATS systems it doesn't parse correctly and it would
           | be nice to know when I'm making the resume, rather than when
           | I apply for the job. For people without an existing
           | opinionated workflow (likely the bulk), the resume scanner
           | would be a good way to help them understand the value
           | proposition of a unified builder that works with most ATS
           | systems by design, rather than as an afterthought (which
           | seems to be the case with most resume builders online besides
           | this one).
        
       | pratio wrote:
       | Also checkout https://jsonresume.org/ not my project but also
       | amazing work
        
         | adhvaryu wrote:
         | I've used this for my personal web-resume. Pretty good!
        
         | xavdid wrote:
         | My resume has been backed by JSON resume for ages. Great little
         | project, though I'm not sure how maintained it is these days.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Agree that JSON Resume is a great project. I had looked into
         | the project before building this and they have been an
         | inspiration.
        
         | Alifatisk wrote:
         | I vouch for this
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | it's cool, you host your json on a github gist and it's
         | available online
         | 
         | that said my resume is not working anymore, even though the
         | gist is still there. I wonder if others have the same issue.
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | So in a sense, you've made a resume builder you can now put on
       | your resume that you've built with the builder itself? Very meta.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Yeah haha, and it is true. I actually personally use this
         | resume template to apply for jobs during my last job search and
         | was invited to interview with companies like Dropbox, Meta,
         | Amazon. Now I translate the template to be creatable with the
         | builder so I can edit it easier and other folks can use it too.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | "Meta Eyes Resume Builder Builder's Meta Resume, Builder
           | Resumes Resume Builder Building"
        
       | goncalomb wrote:
       | Looks good, definitely an impressive "weekend project". I'll
       | probably use it in the future.
       | 
       | I don't mean to sound rude. But, can you explain what you mean by
       | "trusted by students and employees from top universities and
       | companies worldwide" while showing some university/company logos?
       | How can such a new project make those claims? Was it released
       | elsewhere privately? Looking at the git history, I see it was
       | created 2 days ago, in a single commit.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Thanks for you kind word and for asking this great question. I
         | have to admit that the claim is more for marketing purpose to
         | make it look impressive. The truth is that we tested the design
         | with a small group of folks, including myself, students, a
         | career coach and friends. We use this design during our job
         | searches and we have landed interviews/offers from the
         | companies listed in the logo clouds. It works for a small
         | sample size of us, so we include the logos up there to enhance
         | its credibility that it at least has proven to work for some
         | companies out there.
        
           | rosmax_1337 wrote:
           | >I have to admit that the claim is more for marketing purpose
           | to make it look impressive.
           | 
           | If you are going to be honest about lying by admitting to us
           | that you lied, just state that it was a lie, don't euphemize
           | it as marketing. Otherwise the "honesty" just comes of as
           | manipulation.
        
             | xitang wrote:
             | I apologize for the confusion the statement has caused and
             | comes off as lying. The statement is accurate and is in
             | fact tested & likened by students and employees listed in
             | the logo cloud. I appreciate the feedback that given it is
             | only a handful of us, this statement can give the wrong
             | impressions that it is more widely used than people
             | perceive. I want to keep the project honest, clear and
             | transparent as much as possible and I just create the issue
             | to track this: https://github.com/xitanggg/open-
             | resume/issues/7. I will remove the statement next to not
             | mislead anyone and might consider adding it back only if we
             | have more social proofs from more users in the future.
        
               | rosmax_1337 wrote:
               | >The statement is accurate and is in fact tested &
               | likened by students and employees listed in the logo
               | cloud.
               | 
               | I have no doubts your claim as it was written in text was
               | correct. The lie was by layout and usage of company and
               | university logos. These kinds of "we are trusted by" and
               | "in cooperation with" sections are common, it's what
               | you're making in that section, and the usage of logos in
               | those sections always mean the same thing: these
               | organisations use/trust our software.
        
               | goncalomb wrote:
               | I guess you could just be totally open about it, and
               | change the wording to something like "the open-resume
               | design already helped some people land positions at",
               | then show the logos. That way you are being honest, and
               | doesn't look like a direct endorsement from those
               | companies. You get your logos for "marketing", and you
               | are safe from misinterpretation. IANAL.
        
               | xitang wrote:
               | Love this suggestion!
        
             | jokethrowaway wrote:
             | It's not a lie if people from those companies are endorsing
             | the product
             | 
             | Now, I know from experience, you probably want to hear from
             | their legal team (or have a contract which make it
             | explicit) before putting a company's logo on your website
             | as an endorsement - but I doubt they'll sue you
        
               | drekipus wrote:
               | Just remember, it's not a lie, if _you_ believe it.
        
             | skwirl wrote:
             | Where was the lie? It's pretty crappy to baselessly accuse
             | someone of lying.
        
               | LastTrain wrote:
               | This thread is making me understand why they have to
               | teach ethics.
        
               | rosmax_1337 wrote:
               | They claimed companies like Google and some universities
               | trusted their software. If you read it word by word, it
               | was only a claim that people who worked at the companies
               | and who studied at the universities trusted their
               | software, but the usage of company and university logos
               | also made clear claim that the companies and universities
               | themselves had endorsed it.
               | 
               | They admitted it was for marketing purposes, and I added
               | that rather than to euphemize it as marketing, they
               | should instead admit that they lied, otherwise their
               | attempt at honesty comes of as manipulative. It is
               | possible to tell a lie by the usage of logos and layout,
               | not only in text.
               | 
               | This has now been removed from their website, you can see
               | their original layout here: https://web.archive.org/web/2
               | 0230625170119/https://www.open-...
        
               | dotandgtfo wrote:
               | I don't really attribute this maliciously. Yeah, it may
               | be overstepping it a bit but the wording can make sense
               | (but they should definitively change it). Developers
               | generally aren't great marketers and these guys aren't
               | native in english.
        
               | rosmax_1337 wrote:
               | >I don't really attribute this maliciously.
               | 
               | I don't attribute it to stupidity. (Never attribute to
               | malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.)
               | 
               | They tried to use other organizations logos in their
               | "loved by section" to make their product seem more
               | trustworthy than it was. By using smart language they
               | could have gotten away with it in case of a lawsuit, and
               | most companies don't even bother to go after stuff like
               | this. By the time a lawsuit could have been relevant,
               | their landing page would have changed. It's because I
               | respect their competence that I attribute it as
               | intentional.
               | 
               | Don't get me wrong, I don't give a rats ass about what
               | someone does with some large company/organization logos
               | on their website, it's not that I'm trying to stop some
               | misuse of their trademarks. But if you chat with us about
               | your page, and try to be honest about that the section
               | there is toeing the line of truth, don't call it
               | marketing, just tell us you lied on your webpage. It's
               | not the end of the world to tell a lie on the internet.
        
               | caboteria wrote:
               | > Never attribute to malice that which is adequately
               | explained by stupidity.
               | 
               | Sorry, this false dichotomy is one of my pet peeves. It
               | should read "Never attribute to something that which is
               | adequately explained by something else."
        
               | rosmax_1337 wrote:
               | The observation that stupidity and incompetence is more
               | common than malice (by many degrees) is correct. It's not
               | a true logical dichotomy, it's just a saying.
        
         | tornato7 wrote:
         | He could have just sent it to a few friends at those
         | universities/companies. Nobody should take those sorts of
         | 'trusted by' sections seriously anyway.
        
         | thebruce87m wrote:
         | It's an interesting claim - out of interest I looked up how
         | many countries actually use a resume over a CV and some sources
         | say only United States, Australia, and Canada.
        
           | mminer237 wrote:
           | What's the difference between a CV and a resume? I understand
           | academia uses longer CVS, but I thought they were synonymous
           | terms for general job hunting.
        
       | rosebay wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | pachico wrote:
       | I would allow people to scrape a LinkedIn profile and get the
       | resume from there.
        
       | kalverra wrote:
       | This is great! I enjoyed the breakdown of the ATS logic you use.
       | Did you look at how others like Lever use ATS and replicate that?
       | Or was this a green field build?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | Interesting. I put my LinkedIn generated resume into the parser,
       | and it only parsed it about 1/2 right.
       | 
       | Which makes me wonder, who is doing the wrong thing here? Is
       | LinkedIn generating a bad resume, or is the ATS parser not able
       | to parse what I assume should be pretty standard, as I imagine a
       | lot of people use that feature of LinkedIn.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | This is very helpful to know. Thanks for sharing this. I
         | haven't tested the resume parser with the resume pdf generated
         | from LinkedIn. I just create an issue and will test it next:
         | https://github.com/xitanggg/open-resume/issues/5. I will share
         | more once I look more into it.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | Awesome! I attached my PDF to the ticket for you to use for
           | testing.
        
             | xitang wrote:
             | Thanks, much appreciate it.
        
       | tacone wrote:
       | I wrote my own (code first) resume generator and I am very
       | curious about your project, also for things I didn't know about
       | like ATS. Will definitely look into it.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Amazing to hear that you are creating your own resume
         | generator. I have learned a lot while building this project and
         | am happy to share thoughts if you have any questions. I
         | document my code extensively so I hope it can be helpful
         | reference too. In regards to ATS, basically company uses ATS
         | software to parse resume info, the most ATS friendly resume
         | structure is the simple single column resume design since it
         | works best with the parser by being easiest to parse.
        
       | theyknowitsxmas wrote:
       | A dad's resume from the 1980's
       | https://github.com/runvnc/dadsresume
        
       | razemio wrote:
       | Just as a thought. For me, AsciiDoc was perfectly fine. No
       | modifications needed, and it is compatible with GitHub's build in
       | preview. That's what it could look like:
       | https://github.com/razem-io/resume
       | 
       | Also, by no means is this a good resume. It just works for me as
       | a developer. Using it since 7 years to apply for jobs. Did not
       | disappoint yet ;).
        
       | siilikuin wrote:
       | Nice work, Xitang. Curious to know if this supports the JSON
       | Resume format.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Thanks for your kind words. When creating the resume state
         | structure, I have considered making it a JSON Resume format so
         | it is compatible with other JSON Resume as well as tools that
         | built on top of JSON Resume. However, after looking more into
         | JSON Resume's schema, I find it to be a bit more restrictive
         | than I would like, e.g. it includes a startDate and endDate as
         | date type for work experience, but I want to combine both into
         | date so user can type anything they like `June 2022 - Present`
         | or `06/2022 - Present`. Also, for skills, JSON Resume has a
         | very fixed structured but I want to give users the freedom to
         | type anything in any format. Overall, I think JSONResume works
         | well on its own and defines each field very well. But when
         | thinking in product level, these restrictions might pose too
         | much restrictions, so I ultimately create my own custom resume
         | state type.
        
           | dr_kiszonka wrote:
           | This sounds reasonable. If exporting a JSON resume is not
           | possible, maybe you could support importing one?
        
       | t3pfaff wrote:
       | I have liked the outputs and organization of [Reactive
       | Resume](https://rxresu.me) in the past but I have realized it
       | gets parsed unintelligibly by most ATS and seems to rasterize
       | some sections as well. Is there a way to directly import json
       | into the builder on this?
        
       | leodler wrote:
       | I'm only asking because you reference it specifically, but were
       | you actually able to find a copy of ISO 32000??
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Yeah I did. I am not sure which link I used before but this one
         | seems to also work: https://www.pdfa-
         | inc.org/product/iso-32000-22020-document-ma.... It is free but
         | you have to get through paywall first. It is ~1000 pages doc
         | and I skimmed through it before. The resume parser uses PDF.js
         | to read the pdf, I have also watched the presentation by Julian
         | Viereck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv15UY-4Fg8 that
         | explained some of parts inside a PDF doc
        
       | tap-snap-or-nap wrote:
       | Overall, a very good, useful and simple project.
        
       | latexr wrote:
       | This looks really good. Responsive real-time preview, clear
       | interface, no login necessary, customisable without being
       | overwhelming. Even the category names can be edited if you need a
       | CV in a language other than English. You're ticking a bunch of
       | the right boxes. Fantastic work, I've already sent the link to a
       | few friends.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Thank you so much for your kind words and support! I am so glad
         | you like the UI/UX and share it with a few friends. I hope they
         | might find it helpful
        
       | eikenberry wrote:
       | IMO if you're targeting software developers you might want to
       | consider including the github or similar link to their portfolio
       | in the top section. It is one of the more important items to
       | include, more so than linked-in for devs.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Thank you for this great feedback. I agree with this 100% and I
         | personally use github link in my resume instead of linkedin
         | link. Currently, it shows a GitHub logo if you pass in a github
         | link, e.g. github.com/eikenberry. I just create an issue to
         | keep track of this on how to make it more noticeable:
         | https://github.com/xitanggg/open-resume/issues/6
        
       | hansoolo wrote:
       | Good one! I just tried it out because I need a resume and my old
       | one was done really weirdly in InDesign ages ago.
       | 
       | One thing I noticed was the really weird (I am on Firefox) : When
       | I tried to enter text in the additional box and bullet points
       | were activated it would create a bullet point after every space I
       | pressed....
        
       | linusha wrote:
       | A general question: What do you all think about this Skill
       | representation as points out of 5 (or 7 or 10 for that matter)?
       | These arbitrary scales always hit me as kind of...useless? There
       | is no frame of reference what a specific amount of points mean.
       | Of course, with this kind of skill-self-description there will
       | always be difficulties, i.e., one does not always know what one
       | does not know etc. But it seems to me that e.g., a duration of
       | full-time or equivalent experience with a technology would
       | provide a better way of measuring experience than these arbitrary
       | scales?
        
         | kulikalov wrote:
         | IMO it makes more sense to simply mention the most important
         | skills inside the position description bullet points.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Agree with others' points that this skill meter is subjective,
         | arbitrary and might not add much value. I created it initially
         | more as a option to make the resume design to look more
         | creative and appealing in design. I did called it out that it
         | is an optional section, but yeah, agree that this section seems
         | to require more thoughts. I create an issue to keep track of
         | this: https://github.com/xitanggg/open-resume/issues/11
        
         | clnq wrote:
         | The skill bars or skill meters are completely useless because
         | one person's 10/10 is another person's 2/10. Moreover, the more
         | junior the engineer, the higher they score themselves in their
         | discipline.
         | 
         | I am an older engineer and I would rank myself 6-7/10 in most
         | aspects of my work, even if I have architected and built some
         | trend-setting systems in my corner of tech. I have never seen a
         | junior score themselves so low on average.
         | 
         | My experience is also that companies that care about these
         | things (where hires are mainly filtered by HR and not SWEs)
         | tend to build very mediocre teams. I am probably old enough to
         | eschew the whole resume padding or prettifying thing all
         | together. My last resume was written in Notepad, and it worked
         | just fine for its purpose.
        
           | avip wrote:
           | I wrote my last cv in markdown and named it my_name.cv
           | 
           | Disappointedly, lots of "resume uploaders" refused to accept
           | my file, even as .txt.
           | 
           | Had to retreat back to pdf. Hard times we live in.
        
             | zyberzero wrote:
             | I do something like that, but use pandoc to get whatever
             | format they ask for. It's not always nice looking, but it's
             | seldom me who is initiating the contact (ie they already
             | have an interest in me, and they need a resume "for the
             | process").
        
         | darau1 wrote:
         | I decided that I'd track my time on any project that I work on,
         | and put those projects into categories that I want to be
         | represented in my CV. Whenever I generate a resume, I'll
         | aggregate the time spent on those projects, by category. So
         | I'll get a neat little thing that says "6 months hands-on
         | experience with Ruby on Rails", or something similar.
        
         | alexpotato wrote:
         | I used to say this (when asked about my Perl skills):
         | 
         | "In terms of the whole world? I'm probably a 5-6 out of 10. In
         | terms of people in finance, I'm probably a 8 out of 10."
         | 
         | And I put it this way to show: - I'm not a Perl guru - I also
         | know, roughly, the spectrum of Perl skills in my industry - I'm
         | therefore closer to the upper end for my role + industry match
        
         | sroussey wrote:
         | Stack rank your skills. It's valuable to know which you know
         | better than others. Ranking against peers is pure folly.
        
           | delijati wrote:
           | Exactly. That's what i'm doing. I also rank the tech that i
           | really do not like to work with lowest ;)
        
         | jcul wrote:
         | I think it's useful for a junior engineer to display I have
         | experience in x, y, and z, and this is how I rate my personal
         | proficiency in each.
         | 
         | I wouldn't take a 9/10 to mean I am in the top 10% world wide
         | in this skill, rather it is where I consider myself most
         | proficient.
         | 
         | For more senior roles I might see it as a slight red flag to be
         | honest.
        
         | ghosty141 wrote:
         | They are arbitrary in a way but remember that the people
         | scanning over the resumes are not technical people, for them
         | its important that a skill is there and thats about it. Finding
         | a job is more about social skills than technical ones.
        
           | linusha wrote:
           | But why spent valuable estate on the CV by providing a made-
           | up scale, when just putting the skill would be enough to
           | satisfy your argument?
        
             | evilduck wrote:
             | Because resumes aren't evaluated on maximum information
             | density (and sometimes sparser resumes even do better).
             | 
             | I don't care for skill self-ratings as a concept either but
             | these are placed in what would need to be negative space
             | anyways. If you're committing to a skills list, removing
             | the rating dots and stuffing more skills in their place
             | probably wouldn't have a positive effect.
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Looks like the LaTeX template I use
        
       | shmooper wrote:
       | Awesome work! The builder is super comfy and intuitive. Just one
       | request - would really like to mark in bold parts of a sentence.
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Thanks so much for your support and kind words. I just created
         | an issue to document this feedback:
         | https://github.com/xitanggg/open-resume/issues/4. Can you share
         | more about your use case of mark in bold in parts of a sentence
         | and what are the things you would like to mark in bold?
        
       | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
       | Many years ago we were posting jobs on a local bulletin boards
       | and received applicant resumes on an email. The composition of a
       | resume acted as a primary filter from people who couldn't even
       | organize a few lines of information about themselves.
       | 
       | Then, an internet company in our country took over the market and
       | almost all jobs are searched through it. Of course,it features a
       | very nice resume builder, so now everyone has a nice resume and
       | we can't even filter out the worst candidates without an
       | investigative effort.
       | 
       | Thus, this work is commendable, but might have harmful effects.
        
         | LikeAnElephant wrote:
         | I think this mindset is vastly more harmful than an open source
         | resume builder.
        
         | BaseballPhysics wrote:
         | Damn shame the recruiter world moved to ATS's, which force
         | folks to use tools like this to ensure their resume can be
         | gobbled up and understood by those systems.
         | 
         | Personally, I love my bespoke, beautifully typeset CV. But I
         | also recognize it's useless if I ever want to get through the
         | ATS screening process. I'm far better off using a tool like
         | this so I have confidence the damn thing will get read
         | properly.
         | 
         | Or: your profession is now reaping what they've sown. Force
         | resumes through a machine and we'll start building them with
         | machines.
        
         | RobotToaster wrote:
         | Require applications to be sent by post. You'll filter out a
         | lot of people who can't even send a letter properly that way.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | corobo wrote:
           | You'll also filter a bunch of people who respect their time
           | enough to say "fuck that lmao"
           | 
           | You can probably get away with it you're the only place
           | hiring
        
         | AHOHA wrote:
         | You are discriminating against the candidates who might have
         | some disabilities (whether they know they have or not) like
         | dyslexia, you are also discriminating against candidates whose
         | English (or whatever that language in your country) isn't their
         | first, even though they might be the best suited candidates,
         | best programmers/engineers/etc., I have seen this first hand in
         | some interviews, where some candidates eliminated from the
         | first round by hiring managers because of similar issues or
         | even silly ones like having an accent, after I -as the
         | technical interviewer- gave the green light thay they are
         | qualified for the second one.
        
           | joelegner wrote:
           | In my field communicating with other English-speaking people
           | is probably 80% of the job. Someone who cannot read and write
           | clear English prose will not be successful. Serious question:
           | if I eliminate someone from contention because they struggle
           | to read, write, and speak English, is that "discrimination"?
        
             | Arch485 wrote:
             | Yes, by definition. Whether or not it's legal depends on
             | where you live, and whether or not it's ethical depends on
             | who you ask.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Depends on how good their lawyer happens to be, swording
             | arguments with the employment law for people with
             | disabilities.
             | 
             | https://www.dol.gov/agencies/odep/publications/fact-
             | sheets/e...
        
             | AHOHA wrote:
             | No one said anything about the ability to communicate, but
             | the discrimination against candidates with some disability
             | like dyslexia, it is YOUR job as an employer to provide the
             | proper tool -either during the interview process or even
             | after hiring- to make sure the work isn't affected, and
             | having a proper process to address it. Same goes with
             | accent, it isn't about the ability to communicate but
             | rather the accent or linguistics bias either by not hiring
             | these candidates, or excluding them later from meetings,
             | presentations, etc., or eliminating any future career
             | growth.
             | 
             | Obviously those discriminations are illegal so it goes
             | passive most of the times, by continuous interruption
             | during meetings or intentionally asked to repeat or
             | elaborate themselves, among other.
             | 
             | It's not about communication abilities as this is usually
             | the covert passive response for such discriminatory
             | behaviors, a lot of these candidates can speak "better" in
             | terms of clarity than people with Australian accent for
             | example, it's just another episode of "I'm better than
             | you", you can read more about that in here:
             | 
             | https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210528-the-
             | pervasive-...
             | 
             | https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2022/11/18/accent
             | -...
             | 
             | https://exceptionalindividuals.com/about-us/blog/what-is-
             | dys...
        
               | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
               | > it is YOUR job as an employer to provide the proper
               | tool
               | 
               | I love it when people from internet forums are telling me
               | what my job is.
               | 
               | You know, your way of thinking will eventually lead to
               | understanding that interviewing is inherently
               | discriminatory against everyone but the best candidate,
               | and thus must be abolished. This will lead to a creation
               | of some kind of government agency that you'll ask for a
               | worker and it'll appoint someone who would be considered
               | as acceptable by some clerk. You wouldn't have the
               | freedom to refuse to hire the appointee and would be
               | obliged to pay him.
        
             | dexterdog wrote:
             | It is and it's perfectly fine to do as long as you don't
             | leave the wrong kind of paper trail.
        
           | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
           | Yes, when hiring I do discriminate against candidates with
           | bad skills.
           | 
           | Reading and writing, communication in written form is a
           | critical skill for a software developer, more important than
           | even coding skills (btw, I'm yet to see a person who can code
           | and can't write, or even hear about such person). It is
           | irrelevant, what is the reason for the lack of skill - innate
           | disability or low intelligence - if you can't clearly and
           | precisely communicate with your coworkers, you'll create more
           | problems for the team than you will solve.
           | 
           | And speaking of discrimination, you wouldn't hire a
           | paraplegic person as a nurse or firefighter, right?
        
             | AHOHA wrote:
             | As I mentioned in the comment below, this is the first
             | excuse for such discrimination, as most of the times they
             | do properly communicate and can effectively communicate the
             | idea, but it's the covert way of discriminating them. One
             | of the examples I witnessed, someone was from Singapore
             | -and in Singapore just like a lot of other countries,
             | English IS native, i.e. taught early in life- but they do
             | have a thick accents, and the candidate was eliminated
             | because of that, and obviously the hiring manager made the
             | same silly excuse like you so he can feel better about
             | himself, that it will "hinder" the communications. As long
             | as the communication can be conducted, anything else is
             | pure linguistics bias, you don't see such bias when an
             | international team of scientists are working in a space
             | station or similar projects for example, even though in a
             | lot of cases they lack the vocabulary per se, and lacking
             | such vocabulary did not indicate a lack of skill or
             | intelligence either, let alone to be evaluated by an
             | average IQ hiring manager.
             | 
             | Another case I witnessed was in Canada, where French is an
             | official language, yet the hiring manager excluded one
             | candidate because he had a thick French accent..
             | 
             | Technically speaking too, there's nothing as "native
             | English", we all do have an accent to some degree, a lot of
             | English vocabulary are taken from other languages, and even
             | English speakers do have a lot of silly typos and mistakes
             | in their writing all the time, including my writings in
             | here, so it's never an excuse.
             | 
             | >And speaking of discrimination, you wouldn't hire a
             | paraplegic person as a nurse or firefighter, right?
             | 
             | That's a poor analogy, you do have the tools to properly
             | and easily compensate such linguistic disability, as easy
             | as having someone double checking their writing or having
             | one of these new AI spell check tools, etc., but we don't
             | have the proper technology and tools to compensate for a
             | paraplegic to be a firefighter, yet, say in the future
             | there are proven ex-skeletons that can help, then yes you
             | are discriminating.
        
               | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
               | I'm talking about people writing in their native
               | language. Also, thick accent is not noticeable when
               | someone is writing. But low intelligence is.
               | 
               | > you do have the tools to properly and easily compensate
               | such linguistic disability
               | 
               | No, I do not have such tools, and neither do you.
        
           | Chris2048 wrote:
           | > I have seen this first hand in some interviews, where some
           | candidates eliminated from the first round by hiring managers
           | because of similar issues or even silly ones like having an
           | accent
           | 
           | You have first-hand experience of hiring managers telling you
           | they eliminated someone b/c they had a foreign accent?
        
         | kingkongjaffa wrote:
         | Pretty firmly with you on this one and not with the detractors.
         | 
         | Ultimately, engineers are solving business problems, working
         | with other departments and untangling technical ideas.
         | 
         | Often they need to explain those ideas to non-technical folks,
         | and just as often, they need to justify their decisions to
         | technical and non-technical colleagues.
         | 
         | In every area and task having solid writing skills including
         | documentation, emails, and putting together reports, is
         | extremely important.
         | 
         | Frankly if engineers lack the care and attention to detail to
         | put together a decent resume that's a pretty strong signal
         | their other writing is probably sloppy as well.
         | 
         | To the detractors: writing code is the easiest part of the job,
         | figuring out what code to write to solve the right business
         | problem in concert with other areas is what is important. I do
         | not care if you are a wiz kid mega coder, if your writing is
         | sloppy it casts doubt on everything you _are_ trying to say.
        
         | jnsie wrote:
         | > The composition of a resume acted as a primary filter from
         | people who couldn't even organize a few lines of information
         | about themselves.
         | 
         | That's fine...but you have no way of knowing if the people you
         | filtered out would have been low or high performing employees.
        
         | wnolens wrote:
         | Are you hiring for a writing gig?
         | 
         | If not, the bias could hurt. It's like a leet code interview -
         | artificial bar from highly biased interviewers which kinda
         | sorta works but is buggy and a bit discriminatory.
        
           | JoshuaEN wrote:
           | Most of my job as a software developer is communicating with
           | other people (stakeholders, peers, management), including
           | written (pr comments, emails to various people, Teams chats,
           | design documents) and vocal. Even writing code is ultimately
           | a form of communication (code structure, variable names,
           | comments, etc...).
           | 
           | Even new developers who are primarily going to be mentored
           | greatly benefit from being able to effectively communicate
           | with their mentor and the rest of the team (plus being able
           | to grow into more senior roles).
           | 
           | Someone doesn't need to be perfect at communicating or
           | anywhere close, but just like I wouldn't hire someone who
           | cannot show a baseline of programming skills and knowledge, I
           | also wouldn't hire someone who cannot show a baseline of
           | communication skills (and I have regretted getting swayed by
           | other interviewers when a candidate did well in other
           | aspects).
        
         | robobro wrote:
         | If your primary filter is whether or not someone can produce a
         | resume or not, do better.
        
           | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
           | It suited me quite fine for many years.
           | 
           | If an intellectual worker can't take a text editor and
           | produce a coherent text about his skills and job experience,
           | it is unlikely he'll be good at any job that requires
           | thinking.
        
             | least wrote:
             | > If an intellectual worker can't take a text editor and
             | produce a coherent text about his skills and job
             | experience, it is unlikely he'll be good at any job that
             | requires thinking.
             | 
             | I'd argue that if a resume builder threatens your ability
             | to filter out good and bad resumes, you're probably not a
             | good hiring manager and also are unlikely to be fit for a
             | job that requires thinking.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | jamietanna wrote:
       | Looks pretty interesting - unfortunately my CV
       | (https://hire.jvt.me) couldn't get parsed fully, but would
       | definitely be up to chat about if you'd be interested in
       | supporting things like Microformats, as my CV (in HTML form) is
       | marked up with them to make it easier to parse
        
       | mewonderswhy wrote:
       | Really impressive work, although I was wondering, could this be
       | made as a static HTML "application"? No NextJS, no ReactJS, not
       | even TypeScript. Pure HTML/JS/CSS hosted statically.
        
       | hmmokidk wrote:
       | Really amazing! When I tried to re-import what I created it had
       | some issues though... Namely the descriptions got moved around..
       | and some other stuff. But otherwise this is amazing! I might use
       | my resume I made here.
        
       | woodylondon wrote:
       | Overall, I think the project looks great, and the fact that it's
       | open-source is a big plus. However, there are a few issues that I
       | noticed:
       | 
       | - The web editor doesn't seem to display pages 2, 3, etc.
       | 
       | - The biggest concern I have is how the platform handles the end
       | of a page and page breaks. Specifically, the text seems to be too
       | close to the bottom of the page, with no footer padding. If I
       | were to add a new role to the CV and include the company name,
       | I'd expect the platform to be smart enough to recognise that
       | there isn't enough room for the entire entry and to move the name
       | and the first couple of associated bullets to the next page
       | instead of awkwardly splitting them across two pages.
       | 
       | - I also noticed that my Word CV fits on 2.7 pages, while the
       | document on your editor spans 3.5 pages, with identical font
       | sizes and types. Is there any way to adjust the text width which
       | is what i think the issue is.
        
         | velosol wrote:
         | Much of your second issue is broadly widow/orphan control in
         | case that helps with solutions for OP or for your interest.
         | 
         | https://practicaltypography.com/widow-and-orphan-control.htm...
        
       | js4ever wrote:
       | Very nice, thanks for making this open source!
        
         | xitang wrote:
         | Thank you for your support! I am so glad you find it nice.
        
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       (page generated 2023-06-25 23:00 UTC)