[HN Gopher] Atom feed format was born 20 years ago ___________________________________________________________________ Atom feed format was born 20 years ago Author : mrzool Score : 242 points Date : 2023-06-30 08:44 UTC (14 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.rssboard.org) (TXT) w3m dump (www.rssboard.org) | zokier wrote: | Does ActivityPub these days replace the traditional RSS/Atom | feeds? Feels like it would be the natural successor. Is there | anything missing besides people publishing and consuming? | kevincox wrote: | IMHO no. I thought about this as I run a feed-reader and it | would be cool to support ActivityPub as a feed protocol. | | The main issue is that subscribing shows up on follower lists. | Maybe for individual users this is fine but as I ran a service | I didn't want to do this. I ended up with a number of reasons | why ActivityPub push wouldn't work well. | | 1. I didn't want to appear to be advertising the service with a | generic account subscribed to many feeds. | | 2. I didn't want a generic account to provide access to | "followers only" toots to unintended users. To properly allow | access approval I would need to put some subscriber info into | the account. It would also be important to make sure that this | can't be used as a form of spam (for example if I allowed them | to put whatever name/message they wanted). | | 3. I didn't want to reveal who was subscribed to what. | | 4. I didn't want to have dozens of different accounts | subscribed to popular feeds. | | 5. If the user also wants to comment on a post themselves they | will need a separate account. | | You can still poll a user's outbox like any other feed, but now | you are back to an equivalent to Atom/RSS with no WebSub | support. (I mean you could use WebSub, it works for any URL but | no one does, and why would you when you already have | ActivityPub for push?). So it seems that the anonymity of the | older feed formats can be useful in some scenarios. | | So in the end if I was just going to poll as any other feed | format, and most services that support ActivityPub also have | other feeds there was really no point to doing this. Feature | requests welcome if there is a use case that I missed. | matsimitsu wrote: | I'm in the same boat, and came to the same conclusion. | | One more point I'd add: | | 6. Not every ActivityPub enabled service allows for | federation. (Some of the more popular block all federation, | unless you get allowlisted). So you're stuck polling the | outbox regardless. | cxr wrote: | > So it seems that the anonymity of the older feed formats | can be useful in some scenarios. | | Huge understatement; it's more than just "some". None of the | blogs in my feed reader are written by people that I have a | public (reified) follower/followee connection with over | social media. Nor do I have that kind of relationship with | the authors of the books I check out from the library, for | that matter. | rakoo wrote: | > Is there anything missing | | Simplicity. Atom/RSS can perfectly be a static file (it doesn't | even need internet connectivity, an Atom file can be passed | around on a usb key with 100% of functionality). ActivityPub | requires a live server with computation. Think about the step | it requires for every website and every account and every | service to have an atom feed vs an activitypub actor. | miki123211 wrote: | ActivityPub, despite using JSON rather than XML, is a much more | complex protocol with a lot more moving parts. You can | technically write an RSS feed by hand, drop it on a virtual | hosting provider via FTP, and you have a feed. On the server | side, all you need is static file hosting, which is ubiquitous, | available for free and amenable to things like CDNs. On the | client side, all you need is a single device, which may be | behind NAT, and is capable of occasional network connections to | pull the updated feeds. | | With ActivityPub, you're supposed to have an account at an | instance and receive content through that instance. This means | that the server needs to keep track of followers and | automatically broadcast all new content to all of them, which | requires a database, some kind of content-publishing API, and | probably a job queue and Redis to boot. On the client side, you | need a box that is online 24/7 and can be connected to, so that | you can receive your content. You get much faster delivery, but | at a much higher operational costs and with many more | scalability issues. Hosting static content at scale is a solved | problem, and you can reuse all that existing knowledge for RSS. | Sending AP activities at scale is technically solvable, but the | infrastructure just isn't there yet. | lapcat wrote: | > Does ActivityPub these days replace the traditional RSS/Atom | feeds? | | No. In fact, Mastodon has RSS feed support. | | Downloading an XML file is dead simple. ActivityPub is vastly | more complex. | unshavedyak wrote: | I'm writing some ActivityPub stuff, and wanted to make sure | to get RSS in, done right, etc. However i never use RSS so i | have little insight to good/bad/irrelevant RSS impls. | | Any wants or must-haves to an RSS implementation over a | Fediverse instance? | | My rough plan is to just include RSS in any places i expose | JSON endpoints for data. Though i'm a bit undecided if | there's any value in user activity stuff, like comments on an | article, etc. | goffi wrote: | XMPP does use Atom as its (micro)blogging format (XEP-0277), | and making followers/following lists (subscribers/subscribed in | XMPP terms) public is opt-in with XEP-0465. | | Note: I'm very involved in XMPP, and the author of the latter | XEP. | | Edit: forgot to mention that it's also available to ActivityPub | thanks to the XMPP <=> AP gateway (that I've authored too) | tbyehl wrote: | I need an "I Survived the Syndication Format Wars" t-shirt. | olzhas wrote: | Initially, my thought was "wow, that thing was invented in 80s". | jzawodn wrote: | Sigh. That happens to me too. | ilyt wrote: | still dunno what's the difference between rss1.0, 2.0 and atom | benoliver999 wrote: | I pick one at random, paste it into my feed reader, the feeds | appear, hey presto! | x2rj wrote: | Atom is an order of magnitude more complex and strict standard | by people who really love xml in contrast to the really simple | and less strict rss 2.0. For example almost everything is | optional in rss 2.0 so you can have a reasonable feed for stuff | like tweets or linkblogs where there is no obvious title. In | contrast atom enforces a title for every item which makes this | a messy expirience. | | I have implemented rss 2.0 parser faster then understanding the | atom specification. Atom can do encode stuff like encode html | inline the xml instead of as a CDATA string. In theory this | sounds great, but is ends up in a big mess of complexity (e.g. | a blogpost with handwritten invalid html). | | These days there is also JSONFeed which is really easy to | parse, simple and flexible, but it is not supported everywhere | yet. | simonw wrote: | The RSS 2.0 spec has a horrible flaw: | | https://www.rssboard.org/rss-2-0-1-rv-6#hrelementsOfLtitemgt | | > An item may also be complete in itself, if so, the | description contains the text (entity-encoded HTML is | allowed; see examples) | | Note "is allowed", not "is required". This caused SO MANY | problems back in the day, because the spec didn't clarify if | you should or should not include HTML in that element - and | there was no way of telling, when parsing a feed, if the | author was in the "entity-encoded HTML" or "YOLO and just | stick plain text in there" camp. | | IIRC, Atom came about precisely because the RSS | specifications didn't provide the level of detail needed for | a spec to be truly interoperable. | eduction wrote: | In practice, the description is universally considered to | be html encoded. Everything is decoded. If you try to stick | unencoded html in there it gets rendered as text. If you | really don't want to encode you can stick it in CDATA and | it will just work per the xml spec. I'm trying to remember | what the downside of this approach is - I think maybe it | kept people from sticking unencoded ampersands in plain | text or something. | | But I think it's worth noting that a cultural tradition | emerged that papered over the flawed spec. I think that is | actually pretty common with specs, even if the rss2 one is | extra loose. | | Maybe having a correct spec isn't everything. | ttepasse wrote: | > But I think it's worth noting that a cultural tradition | emerged that papered over the flawed spec. | | Back in 2013 a developer of a feed crawler wrote a | selection of things people get wrong with their feeds. | | https://inessential.com/2013/03/18/brians_stupid_feed_tri | cks | eduction wrote: | This is definitely a good example of "RSS culture." | | (This particular one isn't papering over flaws in the | spec, many of thse are advising against doing things that | violate either RSS or XML spec, or are subjective | opinions additive to the spec (e.g. always have a | datetime). But ya this is basically what I mean.) | ttepasse wrote: | > I have implemented rss 2.0 parser faster then understanding | the atom specification. Atom can do encode stuff like encode | html inline the xml instead of as a CDATA string. In theory | this sounds great, but is ends up in a big mess of complexity | (e.g. a blogpost with handwritten invalid html). | | The same thing can also happen in RSS feeds (and JSON Feeds): | Entity-encoded HTML strings or CDATA HTML strings do not have | any guarantee of well-formed-ness. The direct embedding of | XHTML into Atom as namespaced elements just surfaces | potential invalid markup higher up. | CharlesW wrote: | > _The same thing can also happen in RSS feeds [...]: | Entity-encoded HTML strings or CDATA HTML strings do not | have any guarantee of well-formed-ness._ | | I wrote a podcast validator, and I don't think that's true | -- every RSS feed must be "well-formed" XML. | | (Note that all "valid" XML documents are "well-formed", but | "well-formed" XML documents are not necessarily "valid".) | ttepasse wrote: | I was talking about the (X)HTML in that RSS feed and its | well-formed-ness. | | In a perfect world people would construct their XML | documents with an API which guarantees that the generated | serialisation is a well-formed XML document. E.g. the API | guarantees that the element tree is nested, that | namespaces are declared and that the serialiser escapes | any text nodes. Then people could add their well-formed | XHTML fragments as a child to <atom:content type="xhtml"> | and then serialise the whole document, guaranteeing well- | formed-ness across namespaces. | | In practice people have a tagsoup string from their data | store which they concatenate inside their RSS template in | <description>. If you're lucky, they replace "<" and "&" | beforehand or do the CDATA thing. But in XML terms that | is just a string, not well-formed markup. | CharlesW wrote: | Interesting, thank you. Every podcast RSS feed (a tiny | subset of RSS feeds) I've seen in the wild is well-formed | in the strict XML sense, so the tagsoup problem must be | more endemic on the text syndication side. | ttepasse wrote: | I can imagine that that is potentially a result of | Apple's dominant podcast directory. Podcasters submit | their feeds to Apple's Podcast Connect, which I think | flags warnings and errors. Other forms of feed don't have | that big motivation to validate. | [deleted] | gerikson wrote: | Please read this comment that summarizes the situation: | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36378817 | masklinn wrote: | The TLDR is RSS is messy shit while Atom is well specified and | works for anything you need outside of podcasts. | | As long as you don't need to _consume_ feeds, just use atom. | | The less TL is that RSS1 and RSS2 are basically two different | branches of the original: | | - Netscape released RSS 0.90 as an RDF application (RSS | literally stood for RDF Site Summary) - RSS 1.0 was an update / | direct evolution of RSS 0.90 by a dedicated working group using | final RDF 1.0 semantics (as RSS 0.90 had been based on an | earlier working draft) - RSS 1.1 an evolution of RSS 1.0 by | unrelated people | | This is called the RDF branch, for obvious reasons. | | However a few months after RSS 0.90 Netscape also released RSS | 0.91, which dropped RDF entirely, rebranded to "Really Simple | Syndication", and added some elements from Userland's own | syndication format. | | This is the start of the "Harvard" (formerly "Userland") | branch, Userland / Dave Winer released his own variant of 0.91 | (timeline with netscape has never been super clear to me), then | went on to release 0.92 with an <enclosure> element, followed | by 0.93 and 0.94. He then released RSS 2.0 to mark a bit of a | compatibility break, as RSS 2.0 adds namespace support and | removes some elements from his 0.9, and also to fuck with the | RSS WG's 1.0 release. | | Because the Harvard branch was the first to support enclosures | (embedding audio) and Userland had built support for that, it | became the de-facto format for podcast feeds, Atom also | supports enclosures but I'm not sure any podcast client (or | podcasting source) supports them. | pferde wrote: | While RSS is, as you say, quite messy, Atom has also brought | lots of headaches to this poor feed aggregator developer over | the years. Its specification is a lot tighter than RSS', but | there is still enough wiggle room for feed generators to get | creative and make you want to strangle somebody. | throw0101c wrote: | Perhaps time for RFC4287bis to tighten up the grey areas? | | Are there specific things that come to mind as specifically | annoying? | pferde wrote: | It's been a long time since I spent my time on that, so I | do not remember anything specific. But it was difficult | figuring out reliably if a post in a given feed matched | an already existing (locally cached) post, whether it was | an updated version of that post, or whether if it was a | completely new, hitherto unseen post, so it had something | to do with the post IDs, timestamps and URLs. | jgalt212 wrote: | sounds like Postel's law in play, but I agree it's annoying | that there are incorrect / bad atom emitters. | | https://ardalis.com/postels-law-robustness-principle/ | ttepasse wrote: | I believe iTunes/Podcasts since its beginning also supported | Atom podcasts until they deprecated it some years ago. But I | believe they were some of the very few. | outsidetheparty wrote: | My strong impression at the time was that the primary impetus for | establishing Atom was that Dave Winer was abrasive and | opinionated, and some people just didn't like him very much. | CharlesW wrote: | That seems extremely petty if true. | | FWIW, | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_web_syndication_tec... | notes that Atom was a side-effect of RSS being frozen. Also | FWIW, Dave gave Atom (then Echo) a tentative early endorsement: | | _" If and when it reaches closure, I will recommend to | UserLand that they support the format, both for input and | output, and I will help to the extent I can to write drivers | for the software. I will continue to answer questions for the | people working on Echo, and offer my opinion when it appears to | be welcome, but will step back when it is not."_ -- | http://backend.userland.com/2003/06/26 | | And, true to his word, Dave added support for Atom in UserLand | products in 2007. | spc476 wrote: | Mainly, it was Dave not bothering to clarify how to include | HTML in the RSS feed, instead saying, "the spec is the spec | and it's not changing!" | CharlesW wrote: | IIRC that's always been supported via CDATA. | xefer wrote: | There is the Atom Feed Format and there is the Atom Syndication | Protocol: | https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4287 | https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5023 | | These specs and the discussion about them at the time really are | from a different era of the web. The Syndication Protocol fully | embraced REST which was also white hot then. There was a real | feeling that with a good format and a standardized way to consume | and interact with the resources, it would allow for easier | sharing of not just blog posts but other data as well. | | As intense as the discussion was around the development of | RFC-5023, it was basically ignored from the moment it was | released and even the main spec author declared it basically dead | not very long afterward: | | https://web.archive.org/web/20090421042741/http://bitworking... | | Needless to say, the web took an entirely different direction and | while these specs exist, there isn't much interest in them any | longer. | ttepasse wrote: | There are also some extensions for richer data models and | working with changing feeds: | | RFC 4685: Atom Threading Extensions | | https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4685.html | | RFC 4946: Atom License Extension | | https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4946.html | | RFC 5005: Feed Paging and Archiving | | https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5005.html | | RFC 6721: The Atom "deleted-entry" Element | | https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6721.html | | There were more stuff thought of, as far as I recall, and I | bookmarked a lot of them. But on Delicious. Somewhere in some | backup there must be my archive. | msla wrote: | https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4287 | | https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5023 | yanis_t wrote: | In case anyone is looking for a free rss reader for mobile here's | the one I built for myself after Feedly became unbearably slow | https://www.justfeed.io/ | robobro wrote: | Whenever I need to provide a feed, I always choose Atom because | (a) the spec is better and (b) anything that can handle RSS will | generally also handle Atom. | varjag wrote: | If there's one thing am most grateful to millennials for, it's | killing XML. | hfkwer wrote: | In what format do you think the website you're reading is | written in? Sure html is not 100% super duper pure xml, but for | all intents and purposes, it's xml. | varjag wrote: | Sure sure. XML is dead but its tradition of piggybacking on | HTML success lives as I see. | lapcat wrote: | I prefer Atom to RSS. | | 1) Atom has separate <updated> and <published> fields, while RSS | just has <pubDate>. Moreover, RSS wants to you add a redundant | day of the week in the date, i.e., "Sat, 07 Sep 2002 0:00:01 | GMT", which is dumb. | | 2) Atom allows you to use <content | type="html"><![CDATA[]]></content> where you can just stick in | HTML, whereas RSS <description> just specifies "entity-encoded | HTML is allowed". | | 3) RSS has redundant <guid isPermaLink="true"> vs. <link>. Which | one is a feed reader supposed to use? | Hamuko wrote: | As a consumer, I don't really have any preference. Both work | fine with my software. My personal blog uses Atom only because | my static site generator had an Atom plugin. | eloisant wrote: | Atom is slightly better than RSS, but didn't brought enough | improvements to kill RSS. | justinator wrote: | But enough where my app supports both and will support both | for the remainder of time! | mort96 wrote: | And enough to bifurcate the community by having two | conflicting standards! | asdff wrote: | Is it really bifurcated for the end user though? Its the | same tooling to view both feeds. The same workflow to add | either feed to your feed reader. You don't even realize | whether its an atom or rss feed unless you start looking | into it. | mort96 wrote: | It's certainly a bifurcation for feed authors. | Macha wrote: | Just pick your favourite and supply that? If all consumer | software supports both formats, why do you need to | provide both? | ulrischa wrote: | Why is the name Atom? | rcade wrote: | I think the inspiration was that an atom is a foundational | building block of matter and a lot of things could be built | with a well-specified universal feed format and publishing | format. | | The time spent debating names, disqualifying names, | requalifying names and voting on names was like the battle of | the newscasters on Anchorman. Pure carnage. | bullen wrote: | For my blog tool I made feeds in 3 flavours; RSS, Atom and my | own: | | http://sprout.rupy.se/feed?rss | | http://sprout.rupy.se/feed?atom | | http://sprout.rupy.se/feed | | Now that I look at them they are equally bad. | | That said ActivityPub with JSON does not strike me as better. | | Seriously considering getting into the fray... | ttepasse wrote: | If you want to expand even more, there are even more options: | | * RSS 1.0 - the RDF/XML serialisation. | | * JSON Feed | | * h-feed/hAtom - embedding the "feed" as Microformats markup | inside the HTML. | | * schema.org/Blog - embedding the "feed" inside the HTML, | either with RDFa or with JSON-LD or with Microdata. | | * If you want to annoy the most people at once, there is a | great solution: The data model from RSS 1.0 is of course RDF- | based. The modern serialisation of RDF is JSON-LD - simply use | the RSS 1.0 vocabulary in a "JSON-LD-Feed". | robobro wrote: | It's interesting you made your own feed format, but... why? | Does anything actually support it? | | May be worth making a jsonfeed while you're at it, if you just | want to make more options. | bullen wrote: | I wanted something simpler and was just playing around. | | JSON I use in my distributed DB (http://root.rupy.se), it's | less verbose but XML to me is also a development tool that | gains with human readability. | | The bottleneck is almost never bandwidth on small solutions. | | What I'm considering now is making my own ActivityPub, adding | Reddit like features and Email. | | I would like to make the format pipe (|) separated instead of | XML/JSON... | | The social protocol to end all social protocols. XD | ttepasse wrote: | Prior art: | | http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/000574 | | http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/rss30 | | https://web.archive.org/web/20051025234617/http://www.synta | x... | eduction wrote: | Atom vs RSS is a great example of how technical correctness is | trumped by social factors, in this case namely support from | makers of popular software and content as well as social | influence and documentation skills of creators. | | The person who pushed RSS to success (IMO) Dave Winer was superb | at communicating and evangelizing his goals, connecting partners | like Netscape and NYT, and documenting his work including the RSS | related tools he built. | | His spec was "worse" in the sense that it was under specified but | better in the sense that it achieved wide support (both in text | and podcast form) among people who made content. This is partly | because Dave had first an influential email newsletter and Wired | column (DaveNet) and second an influential very early blog | Scripting News. He had also been working with news companies for | years at prior startups. He could write well. He showed up for | and arranged meetings with people who did not at first understand | the need for something like rss. He was clear and relentless in | his promotion which was borne out of what seemed to be a genuine | desire for open standards in this area rather than greed / trying | to do lock in. | | People with technical backgrounds in places like this tend to | fixate on the technical aspects of Atom vs RSS. There is no | question Atom is more technically correct. There is also no | question (IMO) it came too late and focused on the wrong things | -- being correct and complete at the expense of being complicated | and hard to understand -- and more importantly was led and | promoted by people who lacked the social skills to make it | popular outside of technical circles. (These folks could be | brutal about rss's flaws without seeming to have awareness of | this shortcoming in their own effort.) | treve wrote: | Almost any reader and platform supports both so I don't even | know why the discussion is relevant. | | If you have a preference, use it and feed readers will likely | just work. | thaumasiotes wrote: | > Atom vs RSS is a great example of how technical correctness | is trumped by social factors | | I don't follow. Out there in the world, RSS feeds provide their | feeds in Atom format. The technical format is called "Atom" and | the functionality that the Atom format implements is called | "RSS". | | In what sense did technically-correct Atom get trumped by | anything? This is like complaining that social factors caused | "the SAT" to get trumped by "standardized testing". | majormajor wrote: | > Out there in the world, RSS feeds provide their feeds in | Atom format. | | I just checked a few of the ones I follow, and ... turns out | I don't immediately know how to distinguish when there's not | a specific xml namespace reference in the doc or such. | | But according to Wikipedia the RFC822 timestamps I'm seeing | suggest they're RSS2 instead of Atom? | re wrote: | > turns out I don't immediately know how to distinguish | | Atom feeds will almost always have <feed | xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"> as the root element. | In some cases they may use namespace prefixes but that | tends to be rarer and less interoperable. | | RSS feeds have an <rss version="2.0"> root element. | majormajor wrote: | In that case the four I spot checked were all RSS, I | guess. Though some of them had other references to atom | things within them. | eloisant wrote: | RSS and Atom are 2 different formats. | | Your confusion probably comes from the fact that RSS is | older, so it's sometimes used as the name of the | functionality but it's improper. They're 2 different formats. | thaumasiotes wrote: | So what? That has nothing to do with my comment. | | There are feed formats named "RSS". There is a feed format | named "Atom". And there is a concept named "RSS". The RSS | formats, like the Atom format, are all implementations of | the RSS concept. Generally, when you subscribe to an RSS | feed somewhere, it will be in the Atom format. It's still | called an "RSS feed" for the simple reason that that is the | name of the concept. | | > it's sometimes used as the name of the functionality but | it's improper. | | No it isn't. What would you gain by insisting that RSS | feeds delivered via Atom have to be called something | different than RSS feeds delivered in legacy formats? Did | we rename TLS when we updated the cipher suites? | | Why, in your opinion, is rssboard.org _even bothering to | write about_ Atom? | throw0101c wrote: | > _And there is a concept named "RSS"._ | | The concept is called a (web/news) feed: | | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_feed | | > _It 's still called an "RSS feed" for the simple reason | that that is the name of the concept._ | | No, it's because "RSS" is acting as an adjective to the | noun of "feed". See also "Atom feed": Atom being the | adjective, feed being the noun (concept). | | > _RSS (RDF Site Summary or Really Simple Syndication)[2] | is a web feed[3] that_ [...] | | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS | rcade wrote: | I wouldn't say that an Atom feed is an implementation of | the "RSS concept." That muddies the water too much. | Because RSS and Atom are distinct feed formats, calling | an Atom feed "RSS" would confuse a lot of people. | | Instead I'd say that Atom feeds and RSS feeds are each an | implementation of the syndication concept. | throw0101c wrote: | > _Atom vs RSS is a great example of how technical correctness | is trumped by social factors_ | | Or perhaps having at six year head start (RSS 0.90, 1999; Atom, | 2005) and having it compound. | | This includes podcasting, as the term was coined in 2004, but | which was happening even before that (and before Atom was | finalized): | | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcast#Etymology | | First mover advantage, leading to network effects, can be a | thing. | samstave wrote: | So is this as BetaMax was to VHS? | | EDIT on 'podcast': | | I was literally wondering this AM where 'pod'cast came from - | thank you for the link (I love in-sects, which is why I love | Etymology!) | westurner wrote: | RSS > RSS compared with Atom | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS#RSS_compared_with_Atom | | CDATA > CDATA in XML: | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDATA#CDATA_sections_in_XML | | IIRC RSS was not originally an XML document, so CDATA tags | (to prevent XSS) didn't work; and the issue remains with | content syndication: feed elements should somehow HTML escape | their content to prevent XSS (arbitrary JS on a different | Origin) | | XSS: Cross-site Scripting: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting | | Same-origin policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same- | origin_policy https://developer.mozilla.org/en- | US/docs/Web/Security/Same-o... | | Content Security Policy (CSP) | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Security_Policy | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/CSP | | CSRF: Cross-site request forgery: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_request_forgery | | JSONP > CSRF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSONP#Cross- | site_request_forge... | | The whole internet was broken, and RSS helped us realize it: | the one-way, one-time syndication advantage. | | These days it's all about https://schema.org/CreativeWork | JSON-LD instead of RDFa, which you can try to sanitize with | Mozilla/bleach like arbitrary HTML in comments on the page. | CharlesW wrote: | > _IIRC RSS was not originally an XML document..._ | | AFAIK RDF Site Summary (the original meaning of "RSS") used | XML from the start1. You may be thinking of spiritual | predecessors like the Apple-developed MCF2. | | 1 https://www.rssboard.org/rss-0-9-0 2 https://en.wikipedia | .org/wiki/History_of_web_syndication_tec... | PaulHoule wrote: | It really amused me that people think "RDF never caught | on" when it is the basis of so many major standards such | as RSS, Adobe's XMP metadata, and, I just found out, | ActivityPub. | | I was working on a standards committee for years and made | the discovery that you can turn most XML Schema | Definitions into an OWL ontologies and thus automatically | transform conforming XML documents into RDF documents. | | (People had attempted this before but all the systems I | saw were lossy or didn't make valid and decidable | ontologies.) | | For better and worse my write up[ is about to become one | of those ISO standard documents that costs 166 swiss | franc but it looks like I'll get the opportunity to apply | this method to a major financial standard and release the | software that does it as open source. | | I'd contrast that to the truly awful RDF/XML spec where | people never really understood where the XML stopped and | the RDF began. It turned a lot of people off to RDF and | people never got to see how easy it is with Turtle. | Unfortunately JSON-LD hasn't got the love it deserves | because it fixes most of the major problems with JSONs | except for the lack of /* comments */ and you can | frequently add a touch of JSON-LD to a JSON document you | find on the street and get instant RDF you can query w/ | SPARQL. | | It looks like the W3C has started the process of a SPARQL | 1.2 spec which could be a very good thing if it catches | up with what is possible w/ document database query | languages like N1QL, AQL and such. | [deleted] | acdha wrote: | I'd also add Google dropping reader and trying to force open | web content into various proprietary schemes. Atom's many | improvements over RSS didn't matter as much when the oxygen | was getting sucked out of the room and few people were | investing more time in feeds. | SCAQTony wrote: | Well, the FTC is about to crack down on fake 5-star reviews | levying 50k fines, perhaps paid fake endorsements are next? | | https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/30/fake-re... | SCAQTony wrote: | I got voted down, perhaps someone paid for that downvote? ;-) | immibis wrote: | It has no relevance to the article. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-06-30 23:00 UTC)