[HN Gopher] Can Dell's 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?
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       Can Dell's 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?
        
       Author : secure
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2023-07-03 19:12 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (michael.stapelberg.ch)
 (TXT) w3m dump (michael.stapelberg.ch)
        
       | tedunangst wrote:
       | People are happy using DSC for a pixel perfect monitor? I'd never
       | trust it for graphics work.
        
       | mynonameaccount wrote:
       | Dell cuts cost anywhere they can. Their power cable, keyboard,
       | and mouse have the tiniest gauge wire I have ever seen and this
       | is a $2500 system. Do not buy Dell.
        
       | adamgamble wrote:
       | Although I haven't used these monitors, my experience with high
       | dpi on windows and Linux has been a nightmare compared to OSX.
       | It's surprising me the non Mac world hasn't made this a bigger
       | priority.
        
         | smolder wrote:
         | I'm actually not sure what your complaint is at this point.
         | I've long been using 3 mixed dpi displays on windows 10 for
         | gaming as well as normal desktop stuff. Any relatively modern
         | software scales fine to high dpi. Some old software using old
         | APIs has to be upscaled by the OS and is blurry, but that's
         | stuff like... Winamp.
        
           | ghusbands wrote:
           | I guess you've not used VMWare, VirtualBox, DaVinci Resolve
           | or most anything written in Java. There's more, but that's
           | off the top of my head. There's plenty of software out there
           | with unusably small text/displays even with just one display.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Modern Linux DPI support is a nightmare. It's a shame, since if
         | you just run and old-school software stack (X11; minimal window
         | manager; xrandr to adjust DPI if you hotplug a monitor), then
         | it has much nicer font rendering than Mac OS.
         | 
         | This is particularly frustrating since I've been using high DPI
         | displays since the CRT days. Everything horribly regressed
         | about a decade ago, and still isn't back to 1999 standards.
        
           | nine_k wrote:
           | IDK, high DPI worked fine for me under Linux. I just set the
           | desired DPI in Xfce settings, and everything scales properly.
           | (Except Firefox, which has its own DPI setting! But it works
           | equally painlessly.)
           | 
           | Where things go haywire is _mixed_ resolution. It 's best
           | avoided :-\ Hence now I have a 28" 4k external screen which
           | is exactly like four 14" FHD screens of my laptop, so the DPI
           | stays strictly the same.
        
             | clhodapp wrote:
             | Mixed resolution can look great on X11 if you do it with
             | super-sampling, especially if you're able to do it via
             | integer downscaling.
        
         | AshamedCaptain wrote:
         | I actually think Windows does it better than OS X (and Gnome,
         | Wayland, and anything that does not support true fractional
         | scaling). OS X just scales the entire surface and as result it
         | always look blurry.
        
           | filoleg wrote:
           | > OS X just scales the entire surface and as result it always
           | look blurry.
           | 
           | I genuinely have zero idea what you are talking about. Typing
           | this from my macbook connected to a 5k LG ultrawide monitor,
           | and it is as crystal sharp as it can get. As opposed to my
           | windows 10 desktop (connected to the same monitor) having
           | some occasional application windows render fairly blurry and
           | inconsistently (one of the main offenders of this is,
           | ironically, task manager). And don't even get me started on
           | font rendering in general.
        
             | cosmotic wrote:
             | When I used a 5k LG, on the lowest scaling above 100%, I
             | would get shimmering effects when I moved windows. You
             | could see the same art/glyph rendered differently depending
             | on if it was on an even or odd line; move the window 1
             | pixel and the text totally changed. If you only ever run at
             | integer scaling, this wouldn't be apparent.
             | 
             | Windows does a _Much_ better job with non-integer scaling
             | because hairlines are 1px no matter what the scaling and
             | text is rendered with pixel-hinting instead of macOS 's
             | new, lame strategy of super sampling.
        
             | namdnay wrote:
             | Surprisingly, macs can't actually scale the UI like
             | Windows. All you can do is simulate higher or lower
             | resolutions. Which is fine if your DPI is sky-high, but a
             | real pain in the arse if you're working with a QHD 24"for
             | example, and just want everything to be a bit bigger
        
             | xnyanta wrote:
             | macOS will render at the next highest integer scale factor
             | and then downscale to fit the resolution of your monitor
             | instead of just rendering at the fractional scale in the
             | first place
        
               | duskwuff wrote:
               | Does macOS support any scaling factors above 2x?
        
               | Aaargh20318 wrote:
               | It's effectively supersampling. The resulting image looks
               | excellent.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | hocuspocus wrote:
               | There are several scenarios where it clearly doesn't look
               | that good, and where Windows objectively does a much
               | better job.
               | 
               | Most people (and companies) aren't willing to spend $1600
               | on Apple's 5K monitor, so they get a good 27" UHD monitor
               | instead, and they soon realize macOS either gives you
               | pixel perfect rendering at a 2x scale factor which
               | corresponds to a ridiculously small 1920x1080 viewport,
               | or a blurry 2560x1440 equivalent.
        
               | Aaargh20318 wrote:
               | The 2560x1440 equivalent looks tack sharp on macOS. It
               | renders at 5120x2880 and scales it down to native, as I
               | said it's effectively supersampling. I used this for
               | years and never experienced a blurry image. I now run a
               | 5k2k monitor, also at a fractional scale and again it
               | looks excellent.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | mozman wrote:
             | I had the LG 5k Ultra wide monitor and couldn't get used to
             | it. I gave up and got the XDR display, expensive but worth
             | it
        
         | eikenberry wrote:
         | I'd guess gaming is at least partially responsible. For
         | anything more than 2k you need a high end/expensive video card,
         | which just aren't that common. Just look at the steam stats
         | right now.. 62% of users have 1080p.
        
         | drcongo wrote:
         | High DPI screens with Windows really show how bad the font
         | rendering is.
        
           | hocuspocus wrote:
           | At high DPI the difference in font rendering between
           | ClearType, Freetype and macOS diminish greatly, it's mostly a
           | matter of taste, and at least Microsoft hasn't crippled low
           | DPI rendering in recent Windows versions like Apple did with
           | macOS.
        
       | Matheus28 wrote:
       | Slightly off topic but I can't wait until there's a 120 Hz 8K
       | monitor. It's the only thing holding me back from upgrading from
       | 4K. I wonder if the current limitation is on the panels, cable
       | bandwidth or absurd price tag...
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | 8K is four times the pixels and therefore four times the
         | bandwidth as a 4K monitor.
         | 
         | It took us a long time to go from 1080p to 4K. It has taken
         | even longer for 4K at 120-144Hz to be practical.
         | 
         | It's more likely that you'll end up with intermediate steps to
         | 5K, 6K, than getting 8K 120Hz.
         | 
         | The other limitation is lack of demand. You need a gigantic
         | monitor for 8K to be worth it, and you need a powerful video
         | card to drive it. The number of people who would buy such a
         | monitor is very, very small.
        
         | smolder wrote:
         | What is your actual use case apart from technology fetishism?
        
           | bloggie wrote:
           | In CAD/EDM tools higher resolution means more productivity,
           | (to a point) as you can fit more useful information on the
           | screen at a time - you can "zoom out" more and still keep a
           | useful level of detail. Especially useful in schematic and
           | pcb design where dense areas of interest can be spatially
           | disparate. I don't like large screens and currently use 24"
           | 4k screens which seem to be either unavailable or expensive,
           | they were ~$350 in 2015 and don't seem to have any equivalent
           | nowadays.
           | 
           | The 120 Hz i don't understand however i am not a gamer.
        
             | petepete wrote:
             | Once you try a high refresh rate monitor, even for work,
             | you just don't want to go back. Every movement and
             | animation is buttery smooth.
             | 
             | Try setting your refresh rate to 30hz for an hour.
        
               | ajolly wrote:
               | Agreed. I have a number of 4K 144 Hertz monitors, I'd
               | like a 6 or 8K monitor but until they have it in high
               | refresh create I'm not switching. I'm not much of a
               | gamer, but when I do occasionally game it is
               | significantly more fluid as well.
        
               | dizhn wrote:
               | I have 60, 144 and 165hz displays. I have to say I don't
               | really see much of a difference. Around 30 hz yes. But
               | not over 60. It's probably some sort of genetic vision
               | difference thing.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | People say this, but I've had people fail double blind
               | tests for 120hz vs 90hz vs 60hz. I've yet to find anyone
               | that can reliably tell 144hz vs 120hz.
               | 
               | What people mostly notice is latency not refresh rate.
        
               | skeaker wrote:
               | Anecdotal, but my friends and I have passed such tests.
               | YMMV
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | You mean double blind 144hz vs 120hz when latency isn't
               | an issue?
               | 
               | If you don't mind me asking how old are your friends?
        
           | wing-_-nuts wrote:
           | I can't speak for him, but for me? Straight integer scaling
           | of 4k and 1440p. I _loathe_ fractional scaling, and I cannot
           | wait for the day that I can run an 8k display at  > 90hz
           | without compromise
        
           | bryantraywick wrote:
           | Literally a 3'x5-6' monitor that can render text as crisply
           | and cleanly as print. That's all I want.
        
           | Lio wrote:
           | I guess you could look at the use-cases for 120Hz displays on
           | MacBook Pros.
           | 
           | It's useful for smoother scrolling amongst other things.
           | 
           | I'd like a display that has parity to my laptop but is just
           | bigger so I can fit more on it.
        
             | practice9 wrote:
             | MBP's 120hz display is a lifesaver for me.
             | 
             | Previously, I actually often felt motion sickness when
             | scrolling through code on small 60hz laptop screens. Had no
             | problems with larger (> 23") desktop screens, though.
        
           | ethbr0 wrote:
           | Perhaps parent is a gun shrimp or pigeon.
           | 
           | I try not to be overly sapien-centric when making assumptions
           | about my fellow HN readers.
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | An interesting part of the recent book An Immense World was
             | its coverage of how mantis shrimp likely don't use
             | photoreceptors like human's do.
             | 
             |  _Marshall now thinks that the mantis shrimp sees colors in
             | a unique way. Rather than discriminating between millions
             | of subtle shades, its eye actually does the opposite,
             | collapsing all the varied hues of the spectrum into just
             | 12._
             | 
             | From Science: "A Different Form of Color Vision in Mantis
             | Shrimp"
             | 
             |  _The mantis shrimps (stomatopods) can have up to 12
             | photoreceptors, far more than needed for even extreme color
             | acuity. Thoen et al. conducted paired color discrimination
             | tests with stomatopods and found that their ability to
             | discriminate among colors was surprisingly low. Instead,
             | stomatopods appear to use a color identification approach
             | that results from a temporal scan of an object across the
             | 12 photoreceptor sensitivities. This entirely unique form
             | of vision would allow for extremely rapid color recognition
             | without the need to discriminate between wavelengths within
             | a spectrum._
        
         | CobaltFire wrote:
         | I run the DELL G3223Q (144Hz 4K) and mine calibrated at ~98%
         | DCI-P3 for reference. I'm quite happy with it.
         | 
         | https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/dell/g3223q
        
         | malfist wrote:
         | 8k@120Hz is going to need one heck of a video card
        
           | densh wrote:
           | I'd argue that AI driven super resolution like DLSS should be
           | more than sufficient to upscale 4k to 8k with minimal
           | performance loss and acceptable image quality even for
           | gaming.
        
           | smolder wrote:
           | It's venturing into cryptocurrency-space-heater levels of
           | pointless number crunching to render at that level of detail
           | for anyone who has human eyes.
        
             | nordsieck wrote:
             | > It's venturing into cryptocurrency-space-heater levels of
             | pointless number crunching to render at that level of
             | detail for anyone who has human eyes.
             | 
             | Depends on your monitor size.
             | 
             | Might be a waste at 27", but if you want to use a 48"
             | display, I can assure you that you'd notice the move from
             | 4k -> 8k.
        
               | buildbot wrote:
               | Yeah, even driving the display at 4K, you start to notice
               | the higher pixel fill factor for 8K displays above 48in.
               | I love my 65in 8K Q900 - even though it mostly lives at
               | 4k (120hz!).
        
               | ajolly wrote:
               | Can you explain this a bit more, I tried googling but I
               | can't quite understand what you mean here by pixel fill
               | factor and how it would differ between the resolutions?
        
           | justahuman74 wrote:
           | Not for tmux + firefox
        
             | walrus01 wrote:
             | Unless people are far more sensitive than I am, I don't see
             | how >60Hz is needed for a desktop workstation environment.
             | High frame rate is really only noticeable for very fast
             | reaction time gaming.
             | 
             | 4K 120Hz may be noticeable if editing ultra high frame rate
             | video on a video editing workstation, but if you are a
             | video production crew with a camera capable of recording at
             | that framerate, you probably already know that.
        
               | jonatron wrote:
               | I can immediately tell just from moving the mouse a
               | little. I wouldn't say it's needed either though.
        
               | selectodude wrote:
               | When I throw my iPhone into low power mode and it drops
               | to a 60FPS cap, it is immediately noticeable.
        
               | ricardobeat wrote:
               | It's immediately noticeable when scrolling in a browser,
               | dragging stuff around or just moving the mouse. If you
               | haven't seen it in person, go to an Apple store and do a
               | quick comparison between the Macbook Pro (120hz) and the
               | Air (60hz), or iPad vs iPad Pro. They're always next to
               | each other.
        
               | smcleod wrote:
               | 60Hz is really noticeable when you've been using 120Hz
               | even for a few minutes. 120Hz feels a lot less tiring and
               | work in a terminal, editor and websites is just a lot
               | smoother.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
               | Yeah, I'm a gamer and I _definitely_ notice the
               | difference between 60 hz and 120+ hz.
               | 
               | But for desktop productivity? I don't feel I gain
               | anything from it. 60 hz is fine.
        
               | howinteresting wrote:
               | Many people are more sensitive than you are. I can easily
               | tell the difference between 60 and 120 on both my phone
               | and my desktop.
               | 
               | Though response times also matter a lot for ghosting and
               | such.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | ricardobeat wrote:
           | ARM macs can probably handle that, the M2 can do 10 8k video
           | streams at once, 22 simultaneously on the Ultra, and people
           | are running 4k 120hz on the M1 with a couple hacks.
        
           | speed_spread wrote:
           | Not in text mode. Hercules FTW
        
           | dogma1138 wrote:
           | Not for productivity.
        
           | wruza wrote:
           | Not if you ignore overhyped (imo) rtx graphics and return
           | back to gaming worlds, instead of smoke-and-neon-lights-in-
           | mirrors pseudorealism.
        
         | bryantraywick wrote:
         | Absolutely. Mediocre resolution increases has been one of many
         | disappointments for me when it comes to technology over the
         | past 20 years. We had CRT monitors with better resolution than
         | 1080p back in the late 90's early 2000's before LCD panels
         | saddled us with 1080p resolution for 15 years. 4k is the bare
         | minimum that should be available right now. I can't wait until
         | I can have a 16k monitor at about 3'x5-6' on my desk. Maybe it
         | will happen in my lifetime, but I'm not holding my breath.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | I think you're going to be waiting a long time, even the
         | geforce 4080 and 4090 don't support displayport 2.0.
         | 
         | Additionally much of the demand for >60Hz is for gaming
         | purposes, and there is nowhere near a powerful enough GPU
         | anyone can afford that would be able to render games in high
         | quality or extreme detail level at 8K above 60 FPS. Right now a
         | GPU that costs $1500 USD can _maybe_ render a 4K game with
         | extreme detail level at framerates that vary between 55 to 75
         | fps.
        
           | 111111IIIIIII wrote:
           | The 3090 does support displayport 2.0, though. The 40 series
           | are geared towards productivity use cases where people are
           | fine with 60hz.
        
         | rektide wrote:
         | It's been pretty amazing how stagnant the monitor space is. I
         | too am really craving an 8k@120 monitor, although there's a
         | decent chance I'll balk at the price.
        
           | zone411 wrote:
           | I agree, but we got LG's 16:18 DualUp monitors a year ago.
           | Having a 43'' monitor in the middle and these two on the
           | sides creates a better setup than it was than what was
           | previously possible.
        
           | Aaargh20318 wrote:
           | It's crazy how much of a regression there was in resolution
           | and picture quality when we went from CRT to LCD displays. In
           | the late 90's you could get a CRT that did 2048x1536 no sweat
           | with great color and decent refresh rate. Then suddenly LCD
           | displays became the standard and they looked awful. Low
           | resolutions, terrible colors and bad viewing angles. The only
           | real advantage they had was size. It took a decade or so to
           | get back to decent resolutions and color reproduction.
        
             | goosedragons wrote:
             | How much did a 2048x1536 CRT monitor cost though? That's
             | usually high and I bet it probably priced similar to what a
             | 6K or 8K monitor is today.
        
               | smcleod wrote:
               | Not at all! Your common as milk Philips and ViewSonic
               | 19-21" could do that easily!
        
               | snovv_crash wrote:
               | Also that CRT was probably 21" max, and weighed 20% of
               | the human looking at it.
        
       | I_am_tiberius wrote:
       | Great review. Are you returning the monitor? Also, have you kept
       | the Kinesis 360 keyboard and did you get used to the plam pads?
       | Personally, I'm using the palm pads of the Advantage 2.
        
         | secure wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm returning it.
         | 
         | I kept the 360, but am currently using the Advantage 2 again. I
         | never got used to the 360 palm pads.
        
           | I_am_tiberius wrote:
           | Funnily, I was trying to buy the monitor as well last Friday
           | in Austria, but was informed that the inventory nr on the
           | website was wrong - so my order was cancelled. After your
           | review, I guess I'll be waiting for the Samsung ViewFinity S9
           | (5k).
           | 
           | Re Kinesis: I have mixed feelings as well but in the meantime
           | I got used to the 360 model. With the old palm pads, it feels
           | more like the Advantage 2. I'm a bit sad that I didn't order
           | the pro model. I really liked my Advantage 2 as well, but I
           | can't go back to it as some electronic part seems to be
           | damaged. It just seems to send random characters without
           | touching the keyboard.
        
           | 111111IIIIIII wrote:
           | Why are you returning it? I am keeping mine because I don't
           | know of anything better.
           | 
           | Also, check out the MoErgo Glove80 keyboard.
        
       | bentcorner wrote:
       | I wonder what impact Apple's VR headset is going to have in, say,
       | 10 years. Hopefully prices for their headsets as a complete unit
       | will have dropped, and at that point, while I'm no optical
       | scientist, we must be approaching the limits of eye clarity, no?
       | So eventually VR headsets will offer effectively 360 degrees of
       | "monitor" that can't be matched by any panel, and the only actual
       | pixels they will need to produce are a postage stamp sized thing
       | in front of your eyeball.
       | 
       | I can imagine that a lot of personal computing is going to
       | transform into some kind of "screen+lens+eyeball" as COGs for
       | these kinds of headset displays are going to be lower than
       | traditional monitor (or possibly even smartphone) displays.
        
       | davidhyde wrote:
       | Just give me a 2K monitor that turns on instantly, doesn't hunt
       | for sources, consumes less than 20W of power and I'll be a happy
       | guy. Bonus for having physical buttons to select explicit input
       | sources without delays.
        
         | coder543 wrote:
         | I would say that less than 30W might be a more realistic
         | goal[0]. Maybe lower end monitors consume less power than
         | these... I'm not sure.
         | 
         | Also, it just seems strange that anyone is asking for a 1080p
         | monitor in 2023 outside of Esports. Are you sure you want 1080p
         | (2K) and not 1440p (2.5K)? It bothers me when people use 2K to
         | refer to 1440p. 1080p is 2K[1].
         | 
         | [0]: this chart has a few recent monitors and gives a general
         | idea of how much power monitors consume:
         | https://youtu.be/Wik4DhEaj_8?t=527
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_resolution is very clear
         | on this subject, and I agree completely. 1080p is _much_ closer
         | to 2000 horizontal pixels than 1440p.
        
           | davidhyde wrote:
           | Yeh, I meant 1440p. 16:10. Was not aware these were referred
           | to as 2.5k, thanks! I actually have a 32" one so no scaling
           | is required and I think it only takes about 30W so it doesn't
           | feel like I'm sitting in front of a heater in summer.
           | Honestly, anything below 50W is fine. My biggest gripe really
           | is that it takes 7 seconds to turn on.
        
             | coder543 wrote:
             | It is kind of weird that I don't think I've ever seen any
             | monitor reviewers report the monitor's time-to-wake.
             | 
             | Certainly, one of the most impressive things about the M1
             | laptops when they came out was that they woke _instantly_
             | from sleep, including the screen.
        
         | dogma1138 wrote:
         | You ain't getting a modern monitor with less than 20W of power
         | unless you want something very small and very dim with very low
         | refresh rate.
        
       | swader999 wrote:
       | 6k is even way too much to spend.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | steveBK123 wrote:
       | Friends dont let friends buy Dell monitors.
        
         | photonbeam wrote:
         | What do friends let friends buy?
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | What's the issue with Dell monitors? I'm still using my Dell
         | P2715Q (4k) from > 5 years ago every day and the only reason
         | that would make me switch is that it doesn't support the latest
         | HDMI connections any more.
        
           | sedatk wrote:
           | Yeah, until I got enamored by 144Hz, I'd exclusively buy Dell
           | monitors because of their great price/performance.
        
       | densh wrote:
       | The comments regarding matte vs glossy and text sharpness
       | resonates with me. It's really hard to use any non-Apple screens
       | since their color is completely washed out and lifeless and text
       | lacks crispness on all screens at a range of price points I've
       | ever tried. What's even more puzzling is how a large number of
       | people online seem to adamantly defend widely sold lower-dpi 32"
       | 4k matte screens as a superior product. It's been over a decade
       | since first retina products shipped and somehow 200 dpi+ desktop
       | screens is still an extremely niche product.
        
         | howinteresting wrote:
         | The M1 MacBook Pro 14" shipped with a GtG response time of
         | 58.4ms.
         | 
         | The U3224KB featured in this review has a GtG response time of
         | 5ms in fast mode, which is considered average but not great.
         | Most high-end monitors manage GtG response times of around 1ms.
         | With OLED it's closer to 0.5ms.
         | 
         | 58.4ms is unacceptably bad.
        
           | densh wrote:
           | Sure, they are not fast response gaming screens, but I am
           | specifically calling out reading all forms of text
           | (web/email/documents/coding) as a main use case.
           | 
           | OLED would be great if we could finally get 27" 5K. Currently
           | all the gaming screens sit at around 1440p pixel density and
           | are often coupled with non RGB pixel layout that causes color
           | fringing on text: https://pcmonitors.info/articles/qd-oled-
           | and-woled-fringing-...
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | You should be able to set the font anti-aliaser's subpixel
             | order unless you're running a terrible operating system.
        
             | howinteresting wrote:
             | To be clear, a 58ms response time is so bad that it
             | produces a ton of ghosting while just scrolling text.
             | Apparently Apple screens have always been this bad and Mac
             | users just live with it.
        
         | dogleash wrote:
         | > somehow 200 dpi+ desktop screens is still an extremely niche
         | product.
         | 
         | Resolution and color accuracy are subject to diminishing
         | returns.
         | 
         | I could be wearing my glasses right now. They're not a strong
         | correction, but I could see slightly better. In fact, they're
         | within arm's reach. Meh.
        
       | stalfosknight wrote:
       | Why is it that pretty much all displays in the PC world have such
       | dismal pixel densities (< 226 ppi)? It would be nice to be able
       | to shop for a new desktop display without having to give up
       | Retina in macOS.
        
         | howinteresting wrote:
         | Most people buying high-end monitors prioritize high refresh
         | rates over pixel densities.
        
           | api wrote:
           | Gamers do. For coding I prefer high contrast and clarity. I'm
           | disappointed there haven't been any huge genuine OLED
           | screens. MicroLED could be nice too.
        
             | howinteresting wrote:
             | Right, and most people buying high-end monitors are gamers.
        
               | addisonl wrote:
               | Interesting, I'd assume it's professionals in the
               | video/photography/production space spending the serious
               | money on high end displays. Where are you getting your
               | data?
        
           | Clamchop wrote:
           | High refresh rates seem to have gotten quite cheap. In
           | addition to refresh rates, the high end is concerned with
           | HDR, resolution, color reproduction, curve, and width,
           | depending on the professional segment being targeted.
           | 
           | The products exist but they're not as numerous as I'd expect
           | (certainly not outside of the Apple ecosystem), and it's an
           | eye-watering leap as far as prices go, hundreds of dollars at
           | one end and multiple thousands at the other with very little
           | in between.
        
             | sedatk wrote:
             | My experience is that HDR is rarely worth it on a computer
             | monitor because OLED is so rare. FALD or other non-OLED HDR
             | displays don't get near a decent OLED TV's HDR performance.
        
         | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
         | Because people have switched to larger screens (32+ inch) that
         | they place farther away, lowering the need for pixel density.
         | 
         | I'm on a 4K 27" monitor. That's a PPI of 163. I don't feel it's
         | dismal, and I sit relatively close to my monitor.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Apple defines 218 DPI as Retina BTW.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | I think part of the reason is that high DPI support was
         | completely broken under windows for at least a decade after it
         | was working fine in MacOS and Linux (pre-wayland and the rise
         | of "HiDPI support").
         | 
         | Most PC's are targeting windows, and stuff would be
         | unreasonably small if you plugged in a midrange monitor from
         | the early 2000's. So, monitor manufacturers stopped offering
         | monitors with reasonable DPI.
        
         | mkozlows wrote:
         | Because they're expensive. It's the same reason that phones
         | have higher DPI than laptops/tablets do -- what's economical on
         | a 6" screen isn't on a 13", and what's economical on 13" isn't
         | on 27."
         | 
         | (Why? Yields. A 6" phone screen is like 12 square inches. A 27"
         | desktop monitor is over 300 square inches. If you have a 98%
         | yield of phone screens without defects, that implies only one
         | defect per ~600 square inches, which means that at a handwave
         | level, you'd have a 50% yield of desktop monitors with that
         | same tech. "We have to throw away half the screens we make as
         | junk" is a lot worse than "we have to throw away 2% of them.")
        
       | 111111IIIIIII wrote:
       | I just purchased 2 of the 6Ks and I am keeping both. AMA.
       | 
       | I do not understand the complaints about pixel density. The
       | display is 223 ppi, which is the same or slightly higher than
       | Apple displays. I am using them in a dual display configuration
       | with an M1 Macbook Pro via TB4 and a Windows PC with an RTX 4090
       | via DisplayPort. The KVM feature makes switching back and forth a
       | breeze. I am using 175% scaling (in Windows) and I don't think 8K
       | with 1:2 scaling would give suitably sized OS components for me,
       | so it would be fractional scaling either way.
       | 
       | The startup time doesn't matter in practice because they still
       | wake up from sleep instantaneously.
       | 
       | The mini-DP IN port is annoying but Club3D makes a bi-directional
       | adapter that makes it regular DisplayPort for about $20.
       | 
       | I am fine with the camera defaulting to ON for Windows Hello to
       | work in my 2 computer setup.
       | 
       | My only serious complaint is the piss poor speakers and the
       | fabric covering them.
       | 
       | I would also prefer a glossy display, but in practice I just
       | don't find it makes any difference. I arrange my office for no
       | reflections anyhow, which results in an equivalent experience.
       | Additionally, the Dell 6K has excellent blacks. It has much
       | better blacks than any IPS panel I have used.
        
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