[HN Gopher] An Alerting Vista of macOS Sonoma
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An Alerting Vista of macOS Sonoma
Author : chmaynard
Score : 66 points
Date : 2023-07-09 20:30 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (furbo.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (furbo.org)
| housemusicfan wrote:
| Seems like a brilliant way to browbeat your developers into
| constantly updating all "legacy" API calls thereby ensuring they
| only work on the latest system, forcing your customers to always
| upgrade to the latest and greatest OS, meaning they'll be forced
| to buy new hardware continually to ensure compatibility with
| their favorite applications, and Apple ensures a continuous
| demand of selling clueless customers shiny new things.
| rbanffy wrote:
| While I agree it's not terribly useful if it pops up whenever an
| app that uses a deprecated API starts (or something similar), I
| assume Sonoma is, right now, targeted at developers that will be
| happy if they learn about their usage of deprecated APIs before
| the OS is launched.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| The alerts shown in the post are about Apple system services
| and do not name the deprecated API, so these alerts are
| useless.
| isodev wrote:
| And you think Apple has no use of warnings for themselves?
| The OS is as much a test version for developers as it is for
| Apple during the beta.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| I don't think Apple developers can do much with warnings
| like those, especially if they appeared when waking up from
| sleep.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| I always wait 6 months before upgrading to a new MacOS versions -
| the best thing about MacOS is being able to get on with work
| without having to mess with the operating system!
| Gigachad wrote:
| This version of MacOS isn't even released. It's not even in
| their "public beta", its a private beta intended for developers
| to get the earliest possible test env for updating their
| software.
|
| The fact something weird happened on a private beta is not at
| all surprising.
| jmbwell wrote:
| As a function of a beta release, I would consider the possibility
| that the alerts are not fully intended for consumers, and that
| they might in fact be included in the beta only for the benefit
| of developers who are presumably testing with Sonoma to discover
| API calls that need updating in their own products. That might
| explain the inscrutable (to a non developer) wording, which may
| reflect a presumption that repeated messages are unnecessary for
| a developer with the tooling to bisect the code more efficiently.
| saagarjha wrote:
| These alerts are useless for developers. They contain no detail
| as to what should be done and are non-actionable.
| Cycl0p wrote:
| Well, if you build your software the Apple way(TM) and use
| Xcode, just opening the project will show you all the
| deprecation warning. A C++ Xcode project I have at work has a
| lot of them, mainly for using old Frameworks like
| CoreServices, which do not have any modern C/C++ equivalent
| (they were replaced by Obj-C/Swift APIs) and which, while
| very old fashion/unsafe in their style, are most of the time
| way more worth to call for very short task like getting a
| path, rather then having to whip out a .mm and write some
| horrible Objective-C++.
|
| However, if you're not using Swift/Obj-C and have a
| different/custom build system, you're probably toasted.
| Although, if you're using CMake, you might have some luck in
| getting these info by generating an XCode project.
| isodev wrote:
| An alert is hardly the place to list detailed code warnings.
| I think the prompts are enough to have one open their app in
| Xcode and review the specific depreciation warnings.
| saagarjha wrote:
| They're not. Pretty much every developer I've talked to has
| no idea what this warning means or what they should be
| doing in response to this. All of them are smart people who
| are longtime Mac developers. There are a bunch of ways to
| improve this: you could tell people to look in Console for
| logs, or name the deprecated API being used. What Apple did
| instead is decided to shame apps by name but not tell them
| what they did wrong, and do so in a way that is quite
| broken because the warnings don't even line up with
| deprecated API usage.
| Cycl0p wrote:
| Nonsense, the way Xcode works by making you link Apple
| Frameworks to your project like packages lets you see "by
| design" (which I personally despite, but you got to give
| them that) precisely which Frameworks are in your project
| and which ones are or are not deprecated. Everything will
| end up in the project global warning tab.
| [deleted]
| lapcat wrote:
| You have no clue who you're replying to. I can guarantee
| that saagarjha knows more than you about Apple
| development.
| lapcat wrote:
| The author of the article _is_ a Mac developer, as am I. The
| alerts are inscrutable to developers too.
| bangonkeyboard wrote:
| I have learned never to assume that very obviously bad or
| broken behavior in Apple betas will go away by release.
| an1sotropy wrote:
| I wonder if Apple will use this to annoy people who are still
| happily using the (admittedly old versions of) OpenGL, which has
| been deprecated for awhile but still working for people who want
| simple cross-platform graphics.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| Probably a means of getting internal developers to sort their
| use of new APIs out as well, I mean getting anything done in a
| big organisation usually involves a "sure, we can assign
| someone to this the first moment the 18 month project that Tim
| says is top priority is completed".
| FinnKuhn wrote:
| "There's a new "feature" in Sonoma, and no one besides Apple is
| quite sure what it is."
|
| No worries, I am pretty sure what it is. It is an error code to
| notify the user (or more likely a developer testing their
| software with the beta for the updated OS, as that is who/what
| the beta is intended for) that there is still a deprecated API
| used. Apple used the following slogan in the updated notes:
| "Update your apps to use new features, and test your apps against
| API changes."
|
| This was introduced in MacOS 14 beta 3: "Starting macOS 14
| Sonoma, whenever the OS detects the usage of ATS or ATSUI APIs,
| the user will be presented a dialog stating that the application
| needs to be updated. Once the dialog is dismissed by the user,
| the application will exit. (100521621)" -
| https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos-release-note...
| saagarjha wrote:
| That's not what it is.
| shlubbert wrote:
| Shocking how terrible the wording is in these, even for a beta
| release. 'Alert "GeoServices"' isn't even a sentence. Feels like
| something implemented at the last second.
| infinitedata wrote:
| These alerts are so hurtful and useless that are actually very
| effective an amazing. These will push developers to be on top of
| their game and avoid having mediocre apps with deprecated APIs.
| matthew-wegner wrote:
| I saw these a bunch in beta 2, and none at all in beta 3. I
| suspect it was a bug, and not a new feature.
|
| Some popups were even for system services (a long no-space
| process with "blastdoor" in the name for iMessage, etc).
| ivraatiems wrote:
| These alerts have a big "debug tool semi-accidentally left turned
| on" vibe. I wouldn't be surprised if they disappeared in a
| subsequent beta, with no comment.
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