[HN Gopher] Newpipe.net removed from Google search results due t...
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       Newpipe.net removed from Google search results due to DMCA take
       down request
        
       Author : the-scrabi
       Score  : 238 points
       Date   : 2023-07-11 15:38 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (newpipe.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (newpipe.net)
        
       | phh wrote:
       | There is chrome.google.com and www.facebook.com in the list.
       | That's pretty cool.
       | 
       | I'm not saying they are wrong, chrome definitely allows you to
       | decode drm-encombered files, but uh...
        
         | cge wrote:
         | The Lumen Database page lists only domain names of the URLs in
         | the complaint unless you solve a captcha and enter an email
         | address. The full complaint lists https://newpipe.net/ itself,
         | while the chrome.google.com (and addons.mozilla.org, and
         | store.microsoft.com...) URLs are to browser extension pages,
         | and the Facebook URL is the URL of a post that has a link to a
         | Youtube downloader.
         | 
         | The list generally seems to be a collection of things that
         | range from the websites of Youtube downloaders and interfaces
         | to simply mentions of them, including a Wikipedia page about
         | Youtube downloaders and a Trustpilot page of reviews about a
         | website for one.
         | 
         | Item 9, meanwhile, appears to be a completely unrelated
         | Soundcloud track that isn't even connected to the complaint
         | description, but appears to have the URL of a Youtube
         | downloader in the title.
        
         | supriyo-biswas wrote:
         | It's likely to be a link to an extension on the Chrome web
         | store and perhaps a similar download link on Facebook.
        
       | the-scrabi wrote:
       | Google accepted a DMCA request for the homepage of the Android
       | streaming app NewPipe. Its homepage newpipe.net has been removed
       | from Google search results if one searches for "newpipe". NewPipe
       | is an alternative privacy focused YouTube frontend, but also
       | supports other services like PeerTube, SoundCloud and Bandcamp.
        
         | atherton33 wrote:
         | The way the DMCA works, to my understanding, Google has to
         | accept the notice, unless NewPipe submits a counter notice,
         | which can be done here:
         | 
         | https://support.google.com/legal/troubleshooter/1114905
         | 
         | Proceed as if reporting infringement, and the option will
         | appear to specify this is a counter report.
         | 
         | If the reporter chooses to continue, the next step is with the
         | courts.
        
           | skissane wrote:
           | > Google has to accept the notice, unless NewPipe submits a
           | counter notice,
           | 
           | They don't _have_ to accept it-they can choose to ignore or
           | reject it. However, if they choose to ignore /reject it, and
           | the notifier then sues them, they may lose one of their legal
           | defences.
           | 
           | Obviously they decide that most of the time complying is the
           | legally less risky path, so most of the time they comply.
           | However, if they get a DMCA request for a famous website like
           | nytimes.com, they probably won't action it.
        
           | fweimer wrote:
           | I don't think counter notices apply to circumvention devices.
           | There is also no liability exemption for service providers.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | wtallis wrote:
             | > I don't think counter notices apply to circumvention
             | devices.
             | 
             | Right, because the DMCA takedown notice procedure as a
             | whole doesn't apply to circumvention devices, only to
             | content that is itself copyright infringement.
        
               | boomboomsubban wrote:
               | Exactly. The DRM circumvention parts of the DMCA specify
               | a court order is needed to stop a circumvention device.
        
               | dcow wrote:
               | Why isn't this higher up? This seems like the actual meat
               | of the discussion: Google is erroneously interpreting
               | this takedown request as something it's supposed to
               | comply with, when in fact it's not. Furthermore by
               | misinterpreting requirements here Google is harming the
               | public and newpipe. I wonder what newpipe's appeal (to
               | Google) process looks like...
        
       | world2vec wrote:
       | Any good equivalent to Newpipe for iOS? I'm using Video Lite so I
       | only get one ad when opening the app. I'd like to have
       | SponsorBlock like some Newpipe versions have and no ads at all.
        
         | r00t4ccess wrote:
         | I just use the brave browser on ios it blocks ads ootb
        
         | waxyalan wrote:
         | Yattee is worth checking out https://github.com/yattee/yattee
        
         | aeyes wrote:
         | uYouPlus (sideloading required)
         | 
         | Works without a jailbreak, you just have to refresh the app
         | every 7 days but thats pretty much automated these days.
        
         | fryman wrote:
         | Safari extensions vinegar and sponsorblock. Youtube in safari
         | is a little janky compared to the app, but that's the best I've
         | found.
        
       | tohnjitor wrote:
       | NewPipe is excellent. I was disappointed that it was not
       | available for desktop until I discovered tartube which will
       | download video files from almost any website easily
        
         | dark-star wrote:
         | JDownloader, youtube-dl, yt-dlp and many others can also
         | download YouTube videos (and hundreds of other sites). Yes, the
         | last two are command line tools, but if you put them on your
         | desktop you can just drag&drop any YouTube-link on them and it
         | will download it for you
        
         | mrmuagi wrote:
         | Oh neat, looks like tartube is a GUI frontend for youtube-dl.
        
       | kim0 wrote:
       | Praying they don't touch Brave browser! Most of my YouTube is
       | thorough it these days.
        
       | hunter2_ wrote:
       | DMCA anti-circumvention provisions are regarding tools that
       | circumvent effective access controls.
       | 
       | I realize that broken encryption is considered an effective
       | access control in this context despite it being broken, but apps
       | like Newpipe aren't even breaking encryption, right?
       | 
       | What aspect of the YouTube servers' behavior can be construed as
       | an effective access control? Is there even a rudimentary secret,
       | that never gets served to clients typically but that apps like
       | Newpipe figured out?
       | 
       | Unofficial cable TV descramblers are illegal despite simply
       | reconstructing the missing sync signal, but that's because they
       | facilitate theft of services that are normally paid. YouTube is
       | free.
        
         | NovemberWhiskey wrote:
         | Access to YouTube videos is only "authorized" through YouTube's
         | site and official apps (or yada yada), and YouTube videos are
         | copyrighted material. YouTube has technological measures to
         | ensure that you only watch YouTube videos that way. If you
         | circumvent those technology measures, that's prima facie a DMCA
         | violation, no?
         | 
         | The definition of circumvention of a technology measure is
         | extremely broad including "to avoid, bypass, remove,
         | deactivate, or impair a technological measure".
         | 
         | I'm pretty much of the opinion that the DMCA is a piece of crap
         | as a law, but it doesn't lack for breadth and generality in
         | those definitions.
        
           | AnthonyMouse wrote:
           | DMCA 1201 isn't just a crap law. It's completely unworkable,
           | as has been known since before it was passed.
           | 
           | Suppose Bob is in the business of duplicating public domain
           | US government works. He downloads videos from the NASA
           | website, presses them onto DVDs and sells them on eBay. He
           | can do this without anybody's permission because DVDs are
           | from the mid-90s and the patents are expired. He uses the
           | same DVD format as Hollywood so people can watch them on
           | their existing DVD players, but he also makes a free DVD
           | player app for Linux so people can watch his DVDs or rip them
           | or do whatever they want because they're in the public
           | domain. It can also do the same with any other DVDs, because
           | it's the exact same format. Is Bob breaking the law?
           | 
           | Now suppose Bob is a jerk who is doing this with public
           | domain works without providing anyone a way to exercise their
           | right to copy them, or doing it to enforce contractually
           | unlawful license terms or something like that. Is someone who
           | makes a tool to thwart Bob breaking the law? If so the law
           | could have (more) First Amendment problems, to say nothing of
           | the obvious unreasonableness. But if not then it's a
           | worthless law because anyone could use that as a
           | justification to break anything. Which it is regardless
           | because it has never been effective at suppressing the
           | availability circumvention tools, only at should-be-
           | impermissible abuses like prohibiting interoperability to
           | prop up existing monopolies.
           | 
           | It's also notable that NASA publishes many videos on YouTube.
           | As in, only on YouTube.
        
           | hunter2_ wrote:
           | Sure, but I'm trying to grok the essence of the technological
           | measure being used by YouTube.
           | 
           | I have to imagine that merely offering terms of service
           | doesn't constitute a technological measure, and nor would
           | merely slicing up the response in a DASH-like manner [0].
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Adaptive_Streaming_
           | ove...
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | Well... here's the dumb thing. The DASH-like manner (or,
             | "rolling cipher" as they like to call it) has currently
             | held up as being an effective protection measure. It comes
             | up all the time when RIAA in particular sues YouTube
             | stream-rippers.
             | 
             | https://torrentfreak.com/deciphering-youtubes-rolling-
             | cypher...
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > I realize that broken encryption is considered an effective
         | access control in this context despite it being broken, but
         | apps like Newpipe aren't even breaking encryption, right?
         | 
         | Encryption isn't the only access control. "Access control" is a
         | pretty loose term. I think of it as being similar to what (in
         | the US) counts as "breaking" in a breaking-and-entering charge:
         | you've "broken into" a place if you had to move anything in
         | order to enter. Even a door that is partially ajar and you had
         | to slightly move it to slip by.
        
           | hunter2_ wrote:
           | I agree. But what is the thing being moved here, in technical
           | (rather than legal) terms?
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | I don't know in this particular piece of software. I'm just
             | saying that an "effective access control" can be something
             | very trivial. It doesn't have to be anything as
             | sophisticated as encryption.
             | 
             | Just to speculate, it could be something like using the
             | user's login credentials.
        
       | awinter-py wrote:
       | incredibly useful product. pretty sure 'background play' is a
       | paid feature on default droid youtube[1]. newpipe does it out of
       | the box. I don't object to paying for youtube but I _do_ object
       | to them linking my watch activity to my account. guessing youtube
       | is constantly trying to kill this, just like ytdl, but for now
       | amazing work keeping it up
       | 
       | 1. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7437614
        
         | floomk wrote:
         | > guessing youtube is constantly trying to kill this, just like
         | ytdl, but for now amazing work keeping it up
         | 
         | their lawyers are, but the developers certainly aren't. the og
         | youtube-dl hasn't released in 2 years and still works mostly
         | fine.
        
       | jeroenhd wrote:
       | All of this because they don't want you to download Guizmo - Dans
       | ma ruche (https://ssyoutube.com/en691rT/)
       | 
       | Not the first time they've spammed DMCA takedowns either:
       | https://lumendatabase.org/faceted_search?sender_name=Because...
       | 
       | In comically French fashion, their complaints also include the
       | same message in French just in case someone in Mountain View is
       | more fluent in French than in English. I wonder if this is just a
       | bunch of amateurs hired by the French label or if they actually
       | pay legal professionals to spam these.
        
         | simlevesque wrote:
         | Somebody drank too much Ballantine.
        
         | donmcronald wrote:
         | I'm pretty skeptical of stuff like that. To me, it looks like
         | they proxy the download for you, but that doesn't make sense
         | because there's no way they have the revenue to support that,
         | right?
         | 
         | How does it work? Can someone explain it to me?
        
         | Jenk wrote:
         | > Dear ssyoutube.com User: As you may have heard, our industry
         | has been under strenuous attacks by certain GB copyright
         | holders. Because of these attacks, it has become financially
         | impractical for ssyoutube.com to continue to provide services
         | in the Great Britain. Accordingly, ssyoutube.com will be
         | terminating its services in the Great Britain as of November 3,
         | 2022. We thank you for your past loyalty and patronage and wish
         | you health and safety during the present health crisis and
         | beyond. Very truly yours, ssyoutube.com
         | 
         | Well that's just awesome.
        
       | poplet wrote:
       | Google probably indexes 25% of the content available nowadays....
       | I rarely use Google
        
       | talldatethrow wrote:
       | I just installed the app. Thanks Google.
        
         | hospitalJail wrote:
         | I learned about Fdroid because of something like this.
         | 
         | Then I learned about Bromium(which is obsolete today, but was a
         | great browser with adblock support)
        
           | ransomewhere wrote:
           | You mean Bromite?
        
         | 4ggr0 wrote:
         | There a version of the NewPipe app which contains the
         | SponsorBlock plugin. I use it since months and can't watch
         | YouTube videos without it anymore.
        
           | dspillett wrote:
           | I block ads not because I'm completely anti-advert. I'm anti
           | being-stalked-through-my-entire-life-and-having-my-details-
           | sold-like-I'm-a-cheap-peice-of-meat, and unfortunately ATM
           | blocking that also means blocking most online adverts.
           | 
           | So I draw the line before sponsorblock. At least the content
           | creators get a better cut of that than they get from YouTube
           | monetisation & youtube can't take it away from them as easily
           | at a whim, and those segments don't track me, and there is an
           | increased chance that the sponsor is relevant to what I'm
           | looking at (not what I clicked on days ago). One or two
           | channels even manage to make the sponsor segments
           | fractionally entertaining.
           | 
           | I'm also anti irritating adverts of course, which does
           | include manually skipping _some_ sponsor segments or avoiding
           | channels that can be relied upon to be irritating in that
           | way.
        
             | yetanotherloss wrote:
             | I'm completely anti advert. They declared war on
             | civilization 20 years ago and don't deserve to be treated
             | as anything but a parasitic cultural disease. It didn't
             | have to be this way, but that's where they took us.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | As long as you avoid things that are paid for by ads,
               | there's no moral problem.
        
               | mcpackieh wrote:
               | We're under no moral obligation to play by their rules.
               | Read _Rules for Radicals_.
        
             | ktosobcy wrote:
             | If you use NewPipe then there is virtually no difference if
             | you view the sponsor part or not?
        
             | dcow wrote:
             | I agree with you in spirit.
             | 
             | Here's a thought experiment, though: if you manually skip
             | sponsor segments every single time you watch a video by
             | dragging the scrubber, is that any different from having a
             | piece of software do as much for you, in an automated
             | fashion?
        
         | h4x0rr wrote:
         | Classic Streisand effect
        
           | mynameisash wrote:
           | Oh man, I'd never heard of NewPipe until now. I've literally
           | had it installed for three minutes, and I am amazed. I was
           | able to dial up a music video that I frequently listen to
           | without ads, I could immediately background the app, and even
           | turn off my screen while still listening.
        
       | supriyo-biswas wrote:
       | URL should refer to the original source, which is
       | https://lumendatabase.org/notices/34149383
        
         | winterqt wrote:
         | I think this blog post by the Newpipe team is a fine link to
         | use to provide context + promote their CTA so people can help
         | them, no?
        
       | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
       | Isn't Google forced to comply with DMCA takedown requests
       | regardless of their legitimacy?
        
         | chris37879 wrote:
         | No, that's just how they've chosen to handle them to keep their
         | unofficial "safe harbor" status since net neutrality is dead.
        
           | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
           | Safe harbor is officially part of DMCA though where if you
           | are notified of infringing content and take it down you
           | aren't liable right?
           | 
           | https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_A.
           | ..
           | 
           | > DMCA Title II, the Online Copyright Infringement Liability
           | Limitation Act ("OCILLA"), creates a safe harbor for online
           | service providers (OSPs, including ISPs) against copyright
           | infringement liability, provided they meet specific
           | requirements.
        
             | wtallis wrote:
             | The notice [0] says " _Kind of Work: Unspecified_ " and "
             | _Original URLs: No copyrighted URLs were submitted_ " so
             | the safe harbor provisions pertaining to copyright
             | infringement aren't really applicable here.
             | 
             | [0] https://lumendatabase.org/notices/34149383
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | It's still in Duck Duck Go.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | It's also still in Google if you search for a specific-enough
         | phrase.
         | 
         | `newpipe site` brings it up as the first result
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-11 23:00 UTC)