[HN Gopher] How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania
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How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania
Author : danwilkerson
Score : 67 points
Date : 2023-07-16 19:26 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (danwilkerson.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (danwilkerson.com)
| analog31 wrote:
| I live near a Big Ten university in the Midwest, and they use
| these little trucks and vans for their maintenance crews. I
| imagine that for an institutional user with multiple of them,
| things like getting approval and spare parts is easier. One thing
| they probably help with is that a major university typically has
| horrific parking, but you can cram one of those little trucks
| into a place that a car won't fit into.
| voisin wrote:
| If I found a middle eastern lamp and rubbed it and out popped a
| genie granting me three wishes, my first would be for there to be
| a modern electric Kei truck broadly available in North America.
|
| I am only slightly exaggerating.
| johnea wrote:
| When I tried to convince my buddy, a major Toyota truck fan, that
| really _this_ was the kind of truck evryone actually drives in
| Japan, he didn't want to believe me 8-)
|
| This kind of thing is just obviously not allowed in the US,
| right? I mean, where's the luxury? What happens to all that
| social status that comes from needing a small ladder to climb
| into the cockpit of your rigg?
|
| I was also mildly entertained by "damn metric system" 8-) Yea...
|
| I have to say though, it's encouraging to see news of someone in
| the US coming to grips with the advantages of such a vehicle.
|
| I've always liked the 1/2 tilting 3 wheelers like the Honda
| Canopy: https://wonderfulengineering.com/honda-has-introduced-a-
| new-...
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > This kind of thing is just obviously not allowed in the US,
| right? I mean, where's the luxury? What happens to all that
| social status that comes from needing a small ladder to climb
| into the cockpit of your rigg?
|
| You need to remember just how different the Japanese domestic
| market is when it comes to roads and vehicles. It's a tiny
| island nation with low speed limits (37 mph everywhere but
| divided highways, which are 62mph) and a lot of people. The US
| is 26 times larger with 1/10th the population density, and lots
| of high-speed highways.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| I love the esoteric-ness of owning a Kei truck, but they are in
| no way a replacement for a regular pickup truck. You really need
| a separate car for dailying, unless you never drive anywhere
| other than around your farm.
| ghaff wrote:
| Yeah, I'm not sure how owning (and
| maintaining/registering/insuring/inspecting) another barely
| roadworthy vehicle competes with just having a trailer or
| renting a vehicle from Home Depot for a few hours now and then
| competes.
|
| For just moving stuff around the farm my neighbors have
| basically electric golf carts.
| adam_gyroscope wrote:
| This reminds me of the saga Donut went thru to get a similar-
| sized truck from china: https://youtu.be/yRG0Wai4sR0
| dinkblam wrote:
| there are similar mini-trucks e.g. in Italy with left-hand drive,
| which could simplify import/usage
| zokier wrote:
| Any links or specific models?
| ptrrrrrrppr wrote:
| Piaggio porter / daihatsu hijet
|
| https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/piaggio-
| porter-2009r-1-3-16v-pfa...
| zokier wrote:
| Interestingly the new generation grew into proper car size,
| complete with 1.5L engine. Something like Fiat Panda is
| closer to kei cars
| asdfigandfiono wrote:
| This goes to show just how superficial and backwards the American
| car industry is. You can do the job of a $50,000 pickup using a
| machine that is half the size of a Honda Civic, costs $10,000
| new, gets 40 MPG, fits in any parking spot, is easy to load, and
| sells for around $10,000 new. But they look _weak_ and _girly_.
|
| Vanitas vanitatum, omnia vanitas.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| They can _not_ replace new pickup truck. A bicycle doesn 't
| replace a motorcycle just because it has two wheels and you can
| put groceries on it.
| coryrc wrote:
| So long as you never get in a car crash. That's what's holding
| me back.
| woodruffw wrote:
| Pure speculation on my part, but from having ridden in one of
| these Kei trucks (and lots of US trucks): I wouldn't be
| surprised if American-style trucks get in and cause more
| accidents per mile, both because of their lesser visibility
| and weaker cultural norms around speeding and rules of the
| road ("biggest car wins").
|
| (This doesn't make Kei trucks safer, but it might have the
| same paradoxical effect as helmets on cyclists[1].)
|
| [1]: https://slate.com/technology/2023/01/bike-helmets-
| cyclist-de...
| waiseristy wrote:
| These HN threads about trucks are amazing. It's like
| watching the same movie over and over again
|
| * Kei trucks are the coolest. Big gubment is making it so
| we can't register them due to protectionism!
|
| * Chicken tax chicken tax chicken tax
|
| * Big trucks cause more crashes because reasons!
|
| * Trucks are just lifestyle vehicles and nobody actually
| needs or uses them
|
| Over and over and over again
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Don't forget the small penis accusation.
|
| I have an F250, which I drive about 2000 miles a year,
| almost 100% of the time it has a >30ft trailer behind it.
| But that one time that the stars align and I need it for
| a grocery trip, a bunch of people are thinking "see, that
| guy doesn't _need_ a truck " and it reinforces whatever
| internal monologue they have going.
|
| Meanwhile, approximately everyone here routinely drives
| alone in a vehicle capable of carrying 5-7 people. (and
| right about now, someone is about to reply with 'ride a
| bike, cars suck!')
| [deleted]
| mjmsmith wrote:
| Usually followed by someone saying "I'd like to see that
| thing in a crash test against <giant pickup model>".
| joeframbach wrote:
| Well maybe if the giant truck driver was able to see over
| their hood, they wouldn't be in a collision.
| warmwaffles wrote:
| > nobody actually needs or uses them
|
| These make me chuckle. Those people have never done home
| improvement projects or just projects that require
| picking up 8ft sheets of plywood or 20 bags of mulch.
| joeframbach wrote:
| Home Depot rents a big truck for $20-$40 for the 2 hours
| I'd need it. I could rent this truck every weekend for 30
| years for the same price as a giant truck. And I wouldn't
| have to worry about its maintenance either.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| I have a long wheelbase van with room racks, plus a
| trailer.
|
| But pick up the overwhelm majority of items in the
| Celica, a two door hatch.
|
| Anyways, suppliers deliver.
| jrockway wrote:
| Is the price premium worth occasional use? Every DIY
| store I've ever been to has truck rental outside, and
| it's a lot less than a new truck.
| crazyjncsu wrote:
| To be fair to those people, they also don't think you
| need your plywood and mulch because you should live in a
| nice little apartment with a surely altruistic landlord
| who takes care of every need that the plywood and mulch
| could satisfy.
| woodruffw wrote:
| I put 20 bags of mulch in an SUV last weekend, one that
| almost certainly could carry less than TFA's mini-truck-
| thing. What gives?
| ghaff wrote:
| As someone who lives in an old house on a fair bit of
| land, I sort of agree. A sedan wouldn't really work for
| me but an SUV with a roof rack is _mostly_ just as good
| as a truck. (And I suppose I could always buy a trailer
| if it were really an issue.) The enclosed space is more
| generally useful than a truck bed.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| That's the expensive route if you do it too often. I can
| buy 2 yards of mulch scooped into the back of my truck
| for quite a bit less than the cost of 20 bags. And then
| there's things like gravel, which you really don't want
| to try and get in bags at all. I could probably get by
| with a smaller truck if I didn't tow a big trailer with
| it, but I'd still choose an actual open-bed truck over an
| SUV or minivan.
|
| Different strokes for different folks. It's going to
| depend a lot on what you routinely haul.
| woodruffw wrote:
| Sure. To your point above: do you think that trucks are
| the best-selling car in the US because Americans are
| routinely hauling loose gravel, or could it be something
| else? I suspect it's something else.
| ghaff wrote:
| I mostly do outdoor activities that benefit from more
| interior space. I'd probably buy a trailer if mulch,
| gravel, etc. hauling became an issue. You're right that
| it depends on what you need space that's more than a
| sedan or a hatchback for.
| woodruffw wrote:
| ...and, inevitably, someone to make the above comment.
| Maybe you can be the one to finally break the cycle :-)
| waiseristy wrote:
| Break the cycle how? Every time one of these threads come
| up I suggest buying a domestic full size 90's truck
| instead and nobody gives a shit. The only things that
| gain traction in these threads is people shitting on
| their cultural enemies. Because Truck People bad!!
|
| Maybe you can help break the cycle by looking at the huge
| used truck market we already have
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > Truck People bad!!
|
| One thing that I try to remind people of is that pickup
| trucks are the best selling vehicles in the US because
| the approximate definition of 'Truck People' is
| _everyone_.
| joeframbach wrote:
| Here I thought the childmashers were best selling because
| there is literally no alternative, as is the topic of
| this entire thread we are in.
| woodruffw wrote:
| I'm missing why this is a problem for you: TFA makes your
| exact point, and the author explains that they settled on
| a Kei truck for a combination of price and mileage
| reasons.
|
| I don't care about "truck people." I thought the article
| was nice and, as a non-driver, I find the Kei trucks much
| more interesting to look at (and ride in).
| majormajor wrote:
| > buying a domestic full size 90's truck instead
|
| 90s trucks still had poor mileage and were less safe
| overall than new vehicles, they aren't gonna be many
| people's top choice.
|
| My current pet theory is that an equally big problem to
| the "aggressive bro styling super high front grill"
| issues is an overall decline in relative income/living
| standards. Less space + money to have a family car + a
| utility truck, so your truck ALSO has to have a huge
| cabin, and do everything else the family car should do
| too, so it gets huge overall even if the bed is no bigger
| or more useful.
| dirtyid wrote:
| Well are they actually weak vs a pickup? I'd love a Kei car if
| I can pay 10k to survive a crash against mass monsters out
| there.
| manuelabeledo wrote:
| > You can do the job of a $50,000 pickup...
|
| I would say that a non insignificant portion of pickup truck
| owners, don't even need a pick up truck to begin with.
| criddell wrote:
| I think that's why big shared fleets will never really take
| off. People don't seem to mind spending a lot more on their
| vehicle than what they really need to.
|
| People spend $50k because they want that truck, not because
| they need it.
| 7speter wrote:
| Big shared fleets of cars seems like a great idea until you
| end up with the one with the backseat covered in day old
| vomit... in July
| waiseristy wrote:
| > You can do the job of a $50,000 pickup using a machine that
| is half the size of a Honda Civic
|
| No you can't
| markdown wrote:
| For what the average person uses their $50k pickup for, you
| most certainly can. Do you really imagine most pickup trucks
| in the US are hauling bricks on a dirt road up the side of
| mountains?
| tshaddox wrote:
| No, I imagine the average person in the U.S. is using their
| truck to drive to and from their office job and taking
| their kids to and from school. And for that these tiny
| trucks obviously would not work.
| criddell wrote:
| You said it yourself. People aren't buying trucks for their
| function. They aren't hauling bricks up mountain roads. So
| if it's not about function, then it's about something else
| and a Kei truck might not fill that role.
|
| It's like people who spend thousands of dollars on a
| wristwatch. They don't do that because they need to know
| what time it is.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| It's not even remotely as capable as a full size truck. Or a
| compact one for that matter.
|
| Edit: Don't be grouchy and just downvote. If you really think a
| Kei truck with a 1000 pound payload and 60mph [optimistic] top
| speed is comparable to a full size pickup, explain why. It's
| the same payload as a Corolla, not a full size body-on-frame
| pickup. And even then, that completely ignores towing, which is
| a very common use case for full size trucks today. A Corolla
| would do -that- better, too.
|
| Kei cars are neat, but be realistic.
| zdragnar wrote:
| ...and aren't allowed on a highway or freeway.
|
| They're useless for most consumers.
| greggsy wrote:
| I would argue that this form factor could absolutely replace
| the vast majority of trucks use for delivery and contractor
| duties in many cities and towns in the US.
|
| Edit: flat bed pickup trucks that is, not lorries.
| waiseristy wrote:
| They already have the form factor, it's called a Toyota
| Tacoma and Ford Ranger. They are bigger than Kei trucks
| because they have actual safety features.
| 8note wrote:
| The size being the safety feature, and thus a danger to
| other vehicles on the road
| manuelabeledo wrote:
| They are bigger because they need to house 200HP+
| engines, which are, in most cases, unnecessary.
| everdrive wrote:
| My Ford Ranger has 143 HP, thank you very much.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| Cars and trucks 25 years ago had 200HP+ engines with much
| smaller bodies.
| manuelabeledo wrote:
| Cars nowadays are larger for improved comfort, not
| because of safety features. Larger cars aren't inherently
| safer. Modern safety features, such as airbags, crumple
| zones, etc., have been around for over twenty years now,
| but cars have gotten larger.
|
| Regardless, the comparison was between Kei trucks and
| pickup trucks.
| weberer wrote:
| >But they look weak and girly.
|
| If you've read the article, you'd see its because these
| vehicles don't conform to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety
| Standards.
| zokier wrote:
| Nor EPA emissions regulations.
| mdtusz wrote:
| In the PNW these are absolutely everywhere and for good reason -
| they're exactly what most people need when they need a truck bed
| for hauling capacity. Plus, many are 4/AWD and have relatively
| high clearance so they're great adventure wagons for forest roads
| and getting out there.
|
| If a manufacturer made a truck similar (or slightly larger - not
| much room for people 6' and over in them) available for the
| market here, I'm sure they'd sell well. Seems like the biggest
| impediment is the safety laws here though and American insistence
| on having the biggest vehicle on the road.
| chihuahua wrote:
| If by "they are absolutely everywhere" you mean "I've seen one
| of them in 25 years of living here", then I agree.
| mdtusz wrote:
| Forgetting that BC exists entirely. If you search "Kei" on
| Craigslist Vancouver, there's currently 37 postings, and
| they're constantly being imported here. I see them in
| Washington as well, although those may be Canadians just
| visiting.
| theluketaylor wrote:
| A notable difference being in Canada you can import
| vehicles at 15 years old rather than 25. There is a decent
| flipping trade in Vancouver to import JDM vehicles while
| they are Canadian eligible but not US, hang on to them for
| a while, then sell them south once the 25 years are up.
| Izikiel43 wrote:
| I saw one yesterday in skagit valley
| allenu wrote:
| At least in some parts of Seattle, you do see them a lot. In
| my neighborhood of Ballard, for instance, I can go for a walk
| and see three of them parked on the street.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| It probably varies quite a bit by which part of the PNW we're
| talking about. They're exceedingly rare in Oregon (and I'd
| bet they're visitors from Washington or BC), I haven't seen
| one in many years.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| In Oregon, Kei cars are specifically illegal, they cannot be
| titled or registered. Other states are following a similar path
| so definitely make sure you can title it before you buy it.
| greggsy wrote:
| Is that for safety or market protection reasons?
| chiph wrote:
| Not an expert on Oregonian law, but my theory is that
| Oregon's motor vehicle law references the federal NHTSA
| regulations, and Kei vehicles laughably don't meet them
| (exterior lighting, crash performance, theft resistance,
| emissions, and so on).
|
| An owner might be able to use it as an off-road vehicle
| only (no title, no tag, with maybe only comprehensive
| insurance), but that's not the point of buying one for a
| lot of owners.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| The only reason given is that they are not manufactured for
| US highways. Which may be a roundabout way of saying they
| aren't capable of going highway speeds.
| walrus01 wrote:
| This seems like a weird way of US states attempting to
| enforce their own local interpretation of federal laws
| and not laws that actually exist as state code. Anything
| that's over 25 years old is specifically exempt from
| federal FMVSS. If it's under 25 years old you can't
| legally import it anyways for use on US roads (with
| title, etc).
|
| People do import <25 year old kei type vehicles for use
| exclusively on private property on large ranches and
| such.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safet
| y_S...
|
| google "usa 25 year import car rule".
|
| https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-
| b-d&q=USA+25+ye...
| bane wrote:
| Curious, if you were to drive one into Oregon, what would
| happen?
| rootusrootus wrote:
| With the usual caveats (IANAL, etc), it would be fine. I
| think. So far as I know, most equipment-related regulations
| on cars follow the registration. Driving _behavior_ , will
| be localized (e.g. double towing is still forbidden in
| Oregon even if you are titled and registered in
| California). I'm not aware of any Oregon regulation that
| says you can't drive a Kei car here, just that you won't be
| able to title & register it.
| waiseristy wrote:
| The author mentions not wanting a Ranger or Tacoma, but I still
| think those are better options especially considering the drivers
| position...
|
| Even better is a 80's/90's full size 2 door pickup. Same size as
| a modern Tacoma/Ranger, but with payloads comparable to todays
| F250's. Throw in working AC, airbags, and a wealth of cheap
| replacement parts and it's a no-brainer
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Definitely do your research if you live in another state, a
| growing number are refusing to register Kei cars at all. They
| know what they are, they aren't baffled when you try, they just
| have rules against it now. No surprise, this is largely because
| many states' DMVs source their regulations from the same org.
| jachee wrote:
| Hmmm... I wonder where that org gets their funding.
| jcastro wrote:
| I am finding an odd intersection of Kei trucks and geeks lately.
|
| My friend imports KEI trucks and Vans for the mid Atlantic region
| and always has inventory: https://ohkei-imports.com
|
| As it turns out a bunch of people want these things and he's been
| importing and shipping all over the US.
| bradknowles wrote:
| Not seeing much of anything on that site. Just a few references
| to social websites, and a phone number, and that's about it.
|
| So, where's the website that shows their actual inventory?
| avidiax wrote:
| The difficulties inherent in this and the simplicity of the
| product itself make me wonder if there's some car equivalent of
| the "80% lower" of the weapons industry.
|
| Some kind of partially assembled new Kei truck that counts as
| "car parts" during import, and can then be assembled to create a
| "kit car". The kit car process is almost equally onerous, but at
| least you could get a new car on the other end.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| The difficulty is that this idea is not new and the regulations
| are written with that in mind.
| koolba wrote:
| Chicken tax trucks have entered the chat.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
| walrus01 wrote:
| For a while Ford was importing Turkey manufactured small
| vans with seats in the back as passenger vehicles,
| immediately un-bolting and shredding the seats after they'd
| arrived at the US port, and selling them for their real
| intended purpose (small electrical/telecom/plumbing/other
| trades services vans).
| rootusrootus wrote:
| There's still a huge amount of regulation before those
| trucks get onto the road. Just trying to import a bag of
| parts and then reassembling in the US while claiming it's a
| kit car is the oldest trick in the book. It's an instant
| trip to the crusher every time.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| If assembling your own car in the US was as easy as assembling
| a gun, we'd all be assembling cars on our sixteenth birthday.
|
| We have the right to own a gun, but in most of the US owning a
| car is a necessity. There is some route available in most
| states but it's incredibly cumbersome compared to something
| like making your own gun.
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