[HN Gopher] Shelter Protocol: End-to-end encrypted, federated, u...
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       Shelter Protocol: End-to-end encrypted, federated, user-friendly
       web apps
        
       Author : gslepak
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2023-07-20 18:13 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (shelterprotocol.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (shelterprotocol.net)
        
       | icouldntresist wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | lesona wrote:
       | Off topic - is this webpage impossible to back-button out of
       | without double-clicking? I really, really hate that.
        
         | gslepak wrote:
         | Hmm, thanks for pointing that out! It also bothers me. I think
         | the offending line in our docs template is here:
         | https://github.com/okTurtles/shelterprotocol.net/blob/master...
         | 
         | We'll look into fixing this!
         | 
         | EDIT: should be fixed!
        
       | mdaniel wrote:
       | > This virtual machine defines operations ("op codes") for
       | managing keys, defining so-called "smart contracts" (computer
       | programs), and performing both encrypted and unencrypted actions.
       | 
       | I suspected that was going to be in there
        
         | rand846633 wrote:
         | You suspected you would find cryptographic primitives in a
         | system that deals with privacy?
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | I think the subtext is that this is blockchain-y.
        
             | api wrote:
             | There's nothing inherently wrong with a block chain. It's a
             | cryptographically immutable linked list. Anti-buzzwords can
             | be as shallow as buzzwords.
             | 
             | With the exception of the inefficiency of proof of work,
             | nearly all the problems with cryptocurrency are human
             | problems related to the toxicity of the ecosystem rather
             | than intrinsic issues with the tech. Code doesn't scam
             | people. People scam people.
        
             | slawton3 wrote:
             | I'll never understand the undeserved hate that blockchain
             | tech gets. I understand that some people automatically
             | associate blockchain with crypto scams, but fundamentally
             | the tech is inspiring.
        
               | klabb3 wrote:
               | I thought the same but I really do understand the "hate"
               | now. In fact, as someone who sees a lot of potential in
               | the tech, there's even more reasons to be upset.
               | "Blockchain" and even "crypto" are terms that became
               | synonymous with opportunistic speculation at best, and
               | scams and frauds at worst.
               | 
               | And honestly, the vast majority of people on the
               | "inside", i.e. those actually working with it, were
               | opportunists as well. Most of them saw the tech narrowly
               | as an unregulated financial instrument.
        
               | itsanaccount wrote:
               | because all the people working on blockchain-esque
               | systems never seem to grasp societal trust boundaries.
               | 
               | its like theres no amount of Adam Curtis documentaries
               | that will shake silicon valley folks from the myth that
               | the computer will lead to a better, more equal society.
               | 
               | you cant compute yourself out of a broken world.
        
               | emurlin wrote:
               | > you cant compute yourself out of a broken world.
               | 
               | Most certainly not, but surely you can build better tools
               | with the aspiration of facilitating certain goals, can't
               | you? It's not the tools in or by themselves that will
               | improve (or worsen) the world, rather something at your
               | disposal to pursue your goals.
               | 
               | > the myth that the computer will lead to a better, more
               | equal society
               | 
               | Agreed that it won't. But, IMO, the strength of Shelter
               | is that it covers a niche that many other systems
               | (blockchain-y or otherwise) don't, which is data autonomy
               | and confidentiality. Most popular web apps today are
               | centralised silos that don't give you privacy from the
               | operator, and those that aim for federation often also
               | don't give you much privacy either.
               | 
               | Now, it can be that those factors are not important for
               | the specific thing you're developing, and that's fine.
               | But, if they are, having an existing framework to build
               | on top of can give you a head start (even indirectly, by
               | showing you what works or doesn't).
               | 
               | Disclaimer: I'm involved in the development of Shelter.
               | All opinions are my own.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | This is unnecessarily defeatist. You can make
               | improvements to a broken world, including new frameworks
               | for compute that removes dependency on billionaire data
               | brokers.
               | 
               | As an Adam Curtis fan (for all his faults), I don't
               | believe technology is neutral nor that progress is
               | teleologic. I do believe that people could be better
               | served that software that works in their interests
               | instead of against them.
               | 
               | And funny you mention a broken world, as if we're doomed
               | to be excluded from the paradise of eden, the very first
               | walled garden. Those of us working on distributed
               | applications are trying to make walled gardens obsolete,
               | no forgiveness required :)
        
               | itsanaccount wrote:
               | those of you working on distributed applications are
               | trying to transfer power from current tech companies to
               | new tech companies.
               | 
               | thats it. thats all it is. all the madness about
               | cryptography replacing trust just makes that power more
               | concentrated.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | I'm inspired by alternate modes of data storage and
               | compute, and blockchain gets points for popularizing
               | public key pairs as a means of committing transactions,
               | but I totally understand the hate: whenever a tool is
               | invented, it makes certain things easier than they used
               | to be, sometimes unintentionally. Merkle trees make
               | verifying data integrity fast, and proof of work was
               | invented to make sending spam emails slow. The two
               | combined with a money-metaphor makes spinning up pyramid
               | schemes zero marginal cost. Whether or not you're on
               | board with Mr Nakamoto's banking critiques, the result of
               | the technology has been a tidal wave of thin schemes
               | defrauding hopeful and desperate people, while adding
               | little value outside of that world.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | I don't hate blockchain, but I also don't see much use
               | for it that isn't better accomplished through other
               | means. So I guess I'm just not inspired by the tech.
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | jazzyjackson wrote:
       | Hey greg! Glad to see the recording of the D'Web presentation
       | made it online [0], "Most of today's web apps have privacy
       | settings, but none of those privacy settings are real. We didn't
       | want to be one of those companies that gave our users privacy
       | settings, and effectively be lying to our users" is a great
       | problem statement.
       | 
       | For the blockchain skeptics, good news, it's not a blockchain:
       | it's a distributed virtual machine without waste-heat-enforced-
       | global-consensus. Of course it's much faster to see "smart
       | contract" and hit the back button than investigate a new way of
       | doing things so Shelter has their work cut out for them.
       | 
       | [0] https://youtu.be/PKjwUagTq-U
        
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       (page generated 2023-07-20 23:01 UTC)