[HN Gopher] Shelter Protocol: End-to-end encrypted, federated, u... ___________________________________________________________________ Shelter Protocol: End-to-end encrypted, federated, user-friendly web apps Author : gslepak Score : 56 points Date : 2023-07-20 18:13 UTC (4 hours ago) (HTM) web link (shelterprotocol.net) (TXT) w3m dump (shelterprotocol.net) | icouldntresist wrote: | [flagged] | lesona wrote: | Off topic - is this webpage impossible to back-button out of | without double-clicking? I really, really hate that. | gslepak wrote: | Hmm, thanks for pointing that out! It also bothers me. I think | the offending line in our docs template is here: | https://github.com/okTurtles/shelterprotocol.net/blob/master... | | We'll look into fixing this! | | EDIT: should be fixed! | mdaniel wrote: | > This virtual machine defines operations ("op codes") for | managing keys, defining so-called "smart contracts" (computer | programs), and performing both encrypted and unencrypted actions. | | I suspected that was going to be in there | rand846633 wrote: | You suspected you would find cryptographic primitives in a | system that deals with privacy? | tptacek wrote: | I think the subtext is that this is blockchain-y. | api wrote: | There's nothing inherently wrong with a block chain. It's a | cryptographically immutable linked list. Anti-buzzwords can | be as shallow as buzzwords. | | With the exception of the inefficiency of proof of work, | nearly all the problems with cryptocurrency are human | problems related to the toxicity of the ecosystem rather | than intrinsic issues with the tech. Code doesn't scam | people. People scam people. | slawton3 wrote: | I'll never understand the undeserved hate that blockchain | tech gets. I understand that some people automatically | associate blockchain with crypto scams, but fundamentally | the tech is inspiring. | klabb3 wrote: | I thought the same but I really do understand the "hate" | now. In fact, as someone who sees a lot of potential in | the tech, there's even more reasons to be upset. | "Blockchain" and even "crypto" are terms that became | synonymous with opportunistic speculation at best, and | scams and frauds at worst. | | And honestly, the vast majority of people on the | "inside", i.e. those actually working with it, were | opportunists as well. Most of them saw the tech narrowly | as an unregulated financial instrument. | itsanaccount wrote: | because all the people working on blockchain-esque | systems never seem to grasp societal trust boundaries. | | its like theres no amount of Adam Curtis documentaries | that will shake silicon valley folks from the myth that | the computer will lead to a better, more equal society. | | you cant compute yourself out of a broken world. | emurlin wrote: | > you cant compute yourself out of a broken world. | | Most certainly not, but surely you can build better tools | with the aspiration of facilitating certain goals, can't | you? It's not the tools in or by themselves that will | improve (or worsen) the world, rather something at your | disposal to pursue your goals. | | > the myth that the computer will lead to a better, more | equal society | | Agreed that it won't. But, IMO, the strength of Shelter | is that it covers a niche that many other systems | (blockchain-y or otherwise) don't, which is data autonomy | and confidentiality. Most popular web apps today are | centralised silos that don't give you privacy from the | operator, and those that aim for federation often also | don't give you much privacy either. | | Now, it can be that those factors are not important for | the specific thing you're developing, and that's fine. | But, if they are, having an existing framework to build | on top of can give you a head start (even indirectly, by | showing you what works or doesn't). | | Disclaimer: I'm involved in the development of Shelter. | All opinions are my own. | jazzyjackson wrote: | This is unnecessarily defeatist. You can make | improvements to a broken world, including new frameworks | for compute that removes dependency on billionaire data | brokers. | | As an Adam Curtis fan (for all his faults), I don't | believe technology is neutral nor that progress is | teleologic. I do believe that people could be better | served that software that works in their interests | instead of against them. | | And funny you mention a broken world, as if we're doomed | to be excluded from the paradise of eden, the very first | walled garden. Those of us working on distributed | applications are trying to make walled gardens obsolete, | no forgiveness required :) | itsanaccount wrote: | those of you working on distributed applications are | trying to transfer power from current tech companies to | new tech companies. | | thats it. thats all it is. all the madness about | cryptography replacing trust just makes that power more | concentrated. | jazzyjackson wrote: | I'm inspired by alternate modes of data storage and | compute, and blockchain gets points for popularizing | public key pairs as a means of committing transactions, | but I totally understand the hate: whenever a tool is | invented, it makes certain things easier than they used | to be, sometimes unintentionally. Merkle trees make | verifying data integrity fast, and proof of work was | invented to make sending spam emails slow. The two | combined with a money-metaphor makes spinning up pyramid | schemes zero marginal cost. Whether or not you're on | board with Mr Nakamoto's banking critiques, the result of | the technology has been a tidal wave of thin schemes | defrauding hopeful and desperate people, while adding | little value outside of that world. | JohnFen wrote: | I don't hate blockchain, but I also don't see much use | for it that isn't better accomplished through other | means. So I guess I'm just not inspired by the tech. | [deleted] | jazzyjackson wrote: | Hey greg! Glad to see the recording of the D'Web presentation | made it online [0], "Most of today's web apps have privacy | settings, but none of those privacy settings are real. We didn't | want to be one of those companies that gave our users privacy | settings, and effectively be lying to our users" is a great | problem statement. | | For the blockchain skeptics, good news, it's not a blockchain: | it's a distributed virtual machine without waste-heat-enforced- | global-consensus. Of course it's much faster to see "smart | contract" and hit the back button than investigate a new way of | doing things so Shelter has their work cut out for them. | | [0] https://youtu.be/PKjwUagTq-U ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-07-20 23:01 UTC)