[HN Gopher] Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor ...
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Man found guilty of child porn because he ran a Tor exit node
Author : h0ek
Score : 477 points
Date : 2023-07-23 17:03 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (lowendbox.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (lowendbox.com)
| woodpanel wrote:
| I'm still amazed how the security agencies pulled it off, to have
| the ultimate honeypot, a digitized crime scene masquerading as a
| market place auto-incriminating endless amounts of people. A
| Kompromat-Miner.
|
| Speaking of miners, it's not like they are at the same risk as
| tor node operators. Not. At. All...
|
| https://gizmodo.com/child-pornography-that-researchers-found...
| berlincount wrote:
| Yeah I've had police ring with a search warrant for the same
| reason.
|
| Yay. Fun.
| bendbro wrote:
| I'm so happy to read the glowies were unable to extradite him to
| the US.
|
| Hard working nice people
|
| Hard working mean people
|
| Local politicians
|
| ------------------------
|
| Property criminals
|
| Violent criminals
|
| Government apparatchiks
|
| MAPS
|
| Federal politicians
| devwastaken wrote:
| "I rented a server in Poland and someone uploaded CP to an
| Austrian image hoster. They reported it to the Austrian police,
| which contacted the ISP, which gave them my WHMCS login IP and
| then subpoenaed UPC Austria for my address, then queried the
| weapons registry."
|
| The FBI method of fabricating criminal charges. Criminals sleep
| comfortably knowing their governments are more interested in
| playing whack a mole for political image than effectively doing
| their job. Notice how in Austria they aren't charging Google, or
| Facebook, or any other entities where such data passes through
| every day.
| zgluck wrote:
| _I noticed they mentioned "logs" of you talking about hosting CP,
| can you elaborate?_
|
| _They took a bunch of IRC logs where I stated what I can and
| can't host at a web hosting provider I owned. The logs do exist
| but are taken out of context._
|
| The "reporting" here is at the level of a 90s scene mag.
| superkuh wrote:
| True enough. But even this level of detail and research is far
| beyond what the "authorities" displayed in this case.
| zgluck wrote:
| Have you read the court's decision? If not, how would you be
| able to tell?
| hengheng wrote:
| A lot of wink-wink edgyness on both sides. Almost as if there
| are no mature people sharing their views.
| sedatk wrote:
| > I was charged and convicted with the support, not the
| ownership. There is ownership, sale, distribution for no monetary
| gain, and support of general distribution. The last is what I got
| and the lowest of all.
|
| Did they also charge the ISP's involved in transferring those
| network packets?
| tamimio wrote:
| >By law they were right as the law only protected registered
| companies,
|
| So basically to protect yourself running an exit node, register a
| company, preferably offshore or not within X jurisdiction.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| The more I learn the more I realise that this has been the case
| for a long time.
|
| Protections for companies are greater, and create more hurdles
| for law enforcement, than protections for individuals.
| cf100clunk wrote:
| The authorities in Styria, south Austria, charged him:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20141004142101/http://raided4tor...
| phyzome wrote:
| Mods, please add "(2012)" to title...
| neilv wrote:
| Or insert something like "[in 2012]". It's a new article about
| a case a decade ago.
|
| IMHO, this happening today would be more alarming, since Tor
| today is a bit more mainstream.
|
| The first thought that came to mind when I saw the title is
| that perhaps there's some new push against Tor.
| rvnx wrote:
| Quite logical, same in France and likely many countries; if you
| run a Tor exit node (or any type of open proxy), you get visited
| by the police if someone does something wrong on your exit node.
|
| Otherwise what could happen is that you run a Tor node and use it
| as an excuse for any crime you do.
| DennisP wrote:
| I'm trying to imagine a plausible reason to (a) run a Tor exit
| node, but _also_ (b) _not_ actually use Tor for online
| nefariousness, and I 'm coming up blank. I don't think running
| a Tor node as an excuse is a real scenario. (edit: emphasis)
|
| Edit2: Jeez guys. I support Tor. I'm saying anyone who runs an
| exit node is also going to use Tor for anything that might get
| them in trouble, not do those thing in the clear and "use Tor
| as an excuse" as suggested above. That's a silly scenario and a
| poor justification for criminalizing Tor exit nodes.
| cs02rm0 wrote:
| Any privacy advocate would do (a). There's lots of reasons to
| do (b) if you don't trust the government of the country
| you're in, which seems quite reasonable in a lot of countries
| around the world.
| DennisP wrote:
| Of course, but who would do (a) without also using Tor for
| anything that could get them in trouble?
| tamimio wrote:
| Yes because every one is living in a free country with no
| invasion of privacy rights and ISP to MITM every thing about
| you, US including btw with patriot Act.. and before you say
| "yeah but I am not doing anything illegal!?", yet, laws
| change all the time, not to mention you don't have to do
| anything illegal, you just don't like spooks/ISP/etc. looking
| into your business, after all, it should be the case as a
| free citizen.
| DennisP wrote:
| See my edit above and my previous replies to your sibling
| comments.
| monsieurbanana wrote:
| That's not how Tor works, you don't need to run a tor exit to
| use it.
|
| If you were actually doing something nefarious and using tor
| for anonymity, running an exit from the same ip doesn't sound
| extremely smart.
| swores wrote:
| You're misunderstanding the comment you're replying to.
| They're not saying you need an exit node to do bad stuff
| over Tor, they're saying that anybody with the technical
| ability and knowledge to run a tor exit mode would also
| choose to use Tor for any bad stuff, and that therefore it
| seems unlikely anyone who runs a tor exit node would also
| do bad stuff directly traceable to their own IP.
| DennisP wrote:
| Exactly, thank you.
| monsieurbanana wrote:
| You're right, it took me a while but I see it now. The
| phrasing is confusing
| Sankozi wrote:
| If running Tor protected you from any responsibility of
| traffic coming from you then it would be a real scenario. But
| there is an expectation that you should be at least somewhat
| responsible of traffic you generate. That is why running Tor
| exit node is often linked with meeting law enforcement
| officials.
| mrighele wrote:
| In some countries "online nefariousness" include things like
| trying to access gay communities, or looking information
| about abortion.
| DennisP wrote:
| I strongly support Tor. I'm saying that anyone who runs an
| exit node is also going to use Tor for anything that might
| get them in trouble. Hence, it's nonsense to say that Tor
| exit nodes should be illegal on the grounds that they can
| be "used as an excuse," as the comment above suggested.
| mikegreenberg wrote:
| Based on your wording, it sounds like you're conflating the
| two things together... running an exit node and using tor are
| orthogonal to one another both in value provided to the user
| as well as effort involved.
|
| Plausible reasons for:
|
| (a) you greatly value privacy and the privacy of others such
| that you are willing to altruistically provide an exit node
| as a service; your country is a police state and you are
| sympathetic to those affected while also willing to accept
| the risk
|
| (b) you greatly value your privacy and do not trust your ISP;
| you cannot access content sanctioned in your country; you are
| an internet engineer and need to test services which depend
| on privacy as a core feature
| DennisP wrote:
| As someone else helpfully clarified for me, my point is
| that anyone with the technical skill to run a Tor exit node
| is also going to use Tor to hide any illegal activities
| they do online.
| mikegreenberg wrote:
| Also, I assume it wasn't intentional, but consider against
| arguing from the position of "I can't think of anything".
| You are betraying yourself by implying that you know all
| there is to know...which no one does.
| MatekCopatek wrote:
| Couldn't you say the same for every coffee shop that gives
| random people Wi-Fi access?
| fullspectrumdev wrote:
| In Germany this was an actual issue until recent years - you
| were strictly liable for what transited your network.
| ReactiveJelly wrote:
| If I was looking up illegal numbers, I would not want to do
| so in a coffee shop where someone might see me doing so.
| devnullbrain wrote:
| A more politically controversial example would be social
| media/'platforms', IMO. Google and Facebook are allowed to be
| in possession of CSAM, as long as someone else put it there.
| tamimio wrote:
| As mentioned in the article, laws protect companies.
| mikeyouse wrote:
| Your coffee shop could turn over MAC addresses if the police
| showed up with a warrant - especially all of the 3rd party
| managed solutions with logging.
| lost_tourist wrote:
| What person doing illegal stuff doesn't randomize their MAC
| address?
| mikeyouse wrote:
| There's this silly HN conceit of these super
| sophisticated adversaries when the reality is most people
| don't know the first thing about technology or network
| topology and wouldn't know why they should obfuscate
| their MAC in the first place. It wouldn't catch the 1% of
| sophisticated black hats but that describes a small
| fraction of actual people doing stuff online.
| tamimio wrote:
| MAC addresses are useless to track, you can change it,
| randomize it (I think even Microsoft windows has that
| feature built in too), or simply just throw away that
| wireless adapter used. It would be useful if for example
| these MAC addresses are tied to your identity, say when you
| buy a laptop/phone, you have to go in the process of adding
| these MAC addresses to be linked to you of some sort.
| rootw0rm wrote:
| Useful for who?
| freehorse wrote:
| And imagine if somebody changes their mac address to
| yours and does some illegal stuff. There is not way that
| this can work.
| tamimio wrote:
| >There is not way that this can work.
|
| Exactly!
| ilyt wrote:
| That would be absolute opposite of useful
| derefr wrote:
| Your effective wi-fi MAC address -- the one other devices
| see -- isn't fixed in stone, and in fact modern OSes build
| in support for automatically + continuously randomizing it:
| https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/how-to-use-
| rando...
| novok wrote:
| When you actually connect to the wifi network the mac
| addresses stay consistent and stable on macOS / iOS at
| least over multiple sessions. If they didn't do that,
| then a bunch of stuff would probably break.
| gpm wrote:
| Not just support it, but some platforms randomize by
| default
|
| https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/wifi-mac-
| random...
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-
| ca/guide/security/secb9cb3140c/...
| doubled112 wrote:
| Yes. This drove me a little insane since I keep track of
| my devices at home via DHCP lease.
| thrill wrote:
| The MAC address anyone can change?
| MatekCopatek wrote:
| Technically, yes, but realistically most random mom-and-pop
| places just have a random $50 router somewhere in the
| corner.
|
| Would it be fair/sane/reasonable to convict such business
| owners if one of their customers commits a cybercrime?
| rvnx wrote:
| Yes, exactly, https://www.bfmtv.com/economie/des-patrons-de-
| bars-en-garde-...
| ilyt wrote:
| Of course. But "someone sit there for an hour downloading
| torrents" is not something they'd bother to chase vs "this
| guy seems to be downloading 854 torrents in last 24 hours"
| charcircuit wrote:
| Running an exit node is not any different than being any other
| ISP. You are providing another hop between servers.
| TeeMassive wrote:
| Swatting 2.0 will be people installing tor exit nodes
| jstummbillig wrote:
| No, that is not why he was found guilty.
|
| He was found guilty, because running a Tor exit node is not
| sufficient defense against potential child porn violations.
| That's good. Because if not every child porn offender could do
| just that.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| That actually sounds like a pretty smart plan for pedos.
| They'll just need to make sure not to keep any of their trash
| on their own computers, which means they'd need to remember
| some pretty long onion addresses, but it would probably work as
| well.
|
| Luckily most pedos are not smart enough to do more than basic
| disk encryption.
| burtekd wrote:
| Can someone explain the unrevokable legacy IP addresses?
| techsupporter wrote:
| Before the current regional Internet registry system (ARIN,
| RIPE, LACNIC, AfriNIC, APNIC) began, organizations (and some
| individuals) were "given" IP addresses by emailing IANA or Jon
| Postel directly.
|
| Assignments that predate the RIRs are called "legacy"
| assignments and are, theoretically, not subject to the RIR
| system because those who received those addresses only agreed
| to the terms as they existed at the time. Those terms were
| usually "you asked, here you go."
|
| In practice, legacy assignments are left alone because no one
| wants to go to the trouble of arguing with big entities about
| it. (Most of the /8 assignments people gripe about as being
| wasteful are assigned to entities with lawyers, guns, or both.)
| People who have a handful of small legacy assignments get the
| protection of this because it's especially not worth the effort
| to say "well, if all you have is a /22 legacy, yours is now
| part of the RIR system, deal with it". Especially since the
| only recourse would be to allocate it to someone else and
| wouldn't that be fun.
|
| But no IP address is actually "unrevokable." All you have to do
| is piss off a handful of the Tier 1s or a slightly larger
| number of Tier 2s and you'll quickly find your "bulletproof"
| addresses quite useless.
| pstuart wrote:
| It's almost like they don't want us to run exit nodes...
|
| This man's plight is exactly the reason I won't.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Yep I'm sure setting an example contributed a lot here.
|
| This decision is not going to stop exit nodes (and the worst
| stuff on tor probably doesn't even use exit nodes but hidden
| services) but it keeps Austrian IPs off the map making them
| seem a country in control.
|
| The same way companies go crazy mitigating ratings on bitsight
| but don't care about fixing real root problems because they're
| not visible anywhere.
|
| Keeping your front yard clean is a big thing in IT. In our
| company our corporate network is not detected by bitsight but
| our guest wifi is. Meaning one bad apple in a handful of guests
| can give our entire multinational a bad rating.
|
| So what did they do? Make sure bitsight actually shows our real
| endpoints and makes an accurate result? Doing some rudimentary
| checks on the guest portal to make sure outdated systems can't
| connect? Only allowing VPN access on the guest wifi?
|
| Nope they just turned off the guest wifi so that contractors
| (who still need to do the work we pay them to do) plug in the
| corp network against policy, or use the coffee shop wifi next
| door.
|
| Bitsight rating fixed, problem hidden but not actually solved
| and in fact worsened by people connecting unmanaged gear to the
| corp network as guest. All the while gloating in the A rating
| which is completely meaningless.
| dang wrote:
| Related ongoing thread:
|
| _Why Host in Kosovo?_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36837690 - July 2023 (61
| comments)
| schroeding wrote:
| Wow, the website of his hosting company[1] is, eh, extremly
| honest:
|
| > Further, as Kosovo is an extremely corrupt country, we are able
| to bribe both executive and judicative as well as getting
| information about court orders and raids before execution,
| enabling us to move servers out of the affected location,
| protecting our clients in any situation. Our excellent Serbian
| connections enable us to also move servers cross-border and play
| "ping pong" between both countries, essentially keeping content
| online forever.
|
| [1] https://basehost.eu/
| npsomaratna wrote:
| This isn't a parody, right? I mean, surely no-one would
| (seriously) say this in public in real life?
|
| Right?
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Andrew Tate said essentially the same. Turns out corrupt
| police don't like it when someone brags with that fact.
|
| Not that I'd shed any tear for Tate or the other guy though,
| both deserve all they get and more.
| dudeinjapan wrote:
| [flagged]
| sudosysgen wrote:
| I don't think anyone is saying he should be in jail
| because he's saying misogynistic stuff. The context of
| his bragging about corrupt officials was on why his
| illegal casinos and sex trafficking operations didn't
| have any problems (while he himself never directly
| admitted to it, some of his associates tweeted about
| beating a "girlfriend" who wanted to stop doing webcame
| shows, and he heavily implies it at time when talking
| about how he "keeps women under control").
|
| That's why he deserves a fair trial, and as a result,
| probably jail time. It's possible he didn't actually do
| anything wrong, but that's very improbable.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > I don't think anyone is saying he should be in jail
| because he's saying misogynistic stuff.
|
| For what it's worth, I do. The shit he and others of his
| ilk teach to young, vulnerable men is inspiring a _lot_
| of real-world violations of women, some even get drawn to
| outright terrorism and murder.
|
| In Germany, we call such persons "geistige Brandstifter"
| for a reason. They may not light a fire on their own - in
| general they keep their hands very clean and shiny to be
| able to spread their message far and wide - but they sure
| as hell have no issues when _others_ do the dirty work
| for them. And of course when someone follows the
| stochastic terrorism strategy, the preachers disavow
| them.
| hotdogscout wrote:
| That is how fascism started, increasing the verbal
| threat, a string of political assassinations and
| subsequently not giving a f* because your hands are
| clean, but shouldn't ideas be challenged not suppressed?
|
| If people cannot be trusted and should rather be cocooned
| from the true range of human thought, doesn't this go
| against every assumption we use to justify our freedoms?
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > If people cannot be trusted and should rather be
| cocooned from the true range of human thought, doesn't
| this go against every assumption we use to justify our
| freedoms?
|
| Well, we've seen in 1933-1945 where that sort of orthodox
| interpretations of "free speech" leads. And we've seen in
| the Covid era that some people are able to _politicize
| wearing masks_... or to put it differently: the
| intersection between the dumbest humans and the smartest
| bears and crows is so large that we cannot design
| actually bear /crow proof trash cans because enough
| people wouldn't be able to open them.
|
| With politics it is just the same: there are more than
| enough dumb fucks on this planet that someone like Donald
| Trump was able to lead them to storm Congress, leading to
| multiple people getting killed, and more severely
| injured. Society needs some sort of defense mechanism
| against those ruthless enough to use moronically dumb
| people as a weapon and, like Trump did, discard them
| aside when they outlived their usefulness. People got
| sentenced to many years worth of prison time for
| following Trump's suggestion - and yet, to my knowledge,
| he didn't pay a single one's legal bills, assist their
| families or grant a pardon. Even the goddamn _mafia_
| takes better care for those actually risking prison time
| and their families!
| wonderwonder wrote:
| Can you show sources for where he has caused "a lot of
| real-world violations of women, some even get drawn to
| outright terrorism and murder."?
| mschuster91 wrote:
| I wrote "he and others of his ilk". Just read the
| Wikipedia article on Incels for a list of violent
| incidents [1].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#Mass_murders_and_
| violenc...
| wonderwonder wrote:
| Tate is an incel? "a member of an online community of
| young men who consider themselves unable to attract women
| sexually"
|
| I think Tate is going to be super surprised to learn
| that. Dude is many things, an incel is not one of them.
|
| Perhaps you have been caught up in the hysteria and are
| attributing things to him that he is not responsible for?
| I'm not a Tate fan and think he is probably not a good
| person but there has very much been a witch hunt / circus
| atmosphere around those who are anti him. Dude advocates
| for traditional male roles in relationships and for
| people to think for themselves and try to be the best
| version of themselves. Alot of it is very much a money
| making scheme. He is no worse than a lot of other people
| and far better than others. He has his good and bad
| aspects like everyone else. If its found he is guilty of
| the crimes he was charged with then I hope he goes to
| prison. If not then he has a right to speak.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Oh he's not an Incel by any means, but he's regarded as
| the ultimate role model, the person to become, by a hell
| of a lot of them. And _that_ is the true danger behind
| Tate: there are a lot of people able and willing to
| commit an awful lot of criminal or offensive things just
| to get to the point he is.
| wonderwonder wrote:
| Would you not prefer that incels, including the list of
| those you provided that committed violent crimes instead
| change who they are, gain confidence in themselves,
| establish a relationship and live a normal life? The list
| you provided was a group of people that committed "an
| awful lot of criminal or offensive things" without him.
| Seems like them gaining some self confidence and
| accepting responsibility for their own place in the world
| would be a good thing. Something he advocates for
| sudosysgen wrote:
| He's not an incel, but he specifically targets incels and
| the incel movement. Men who don't have any problems
| finding women they want to date aren't a suitable target
| for this kind of rhetoric.
| wonderwonder wrote:
| Does he encourage them to remain incels or to better
| themselves and become something else? Seens like incels
| are pretty bad and we should encourage them to not be
| incels anymore.
| lamontcg wrote:
| > In Germany, we call such persons "geistige
| Brandstifter" for a reason.
|
| The "there's a world for that in German" thing is
| probably a good (but obviously imperfect) inoculation
| against extremist propaganda.
|
| I'm often frustrated that we don't have pithy little
| phrases specific to all kinds of bad behavior in English.
| It is easier to talk about things if they're given
| specific names.
| Fnoord wrote:
| You're free to adopt them in English. Such as
| 'schadenfreude'. We got a Dutch word for that;
| leedvermaak.
| someweirdperson wrote:
| It's nice to have specific terms for special generic
| concepts. However, use of the German language doesn't
| stop there, and creates an association between some terms
| and use in a specific political context, removing these
| expressions from politically correct usability even
| outside of the political context that claimed them. And
| those are a lot more subtle and difficult to identify
| than e.g., allow/deny-lists.
| brightlancer wrote:
| As a commenter just proved, "nobody is saying" is always
| false. It may only be a few nutters, but often it's lots
| and lots of nutters (even prominent members of
| government).
|
| Despite the name, most folks in Western Liberal
| Democracies who call themselves "liberal" or similar
| aren't actually interested in liberalism and only want
| democracy when they win (so they can oppress those who
| disagree with them).
| hotdogscout wrote:
| What do you mean?
|
| If I understood you correctly, it would be something like
| (as rhetorical example) liberals wanting the government
| to take action in ensuring same sex marriage even if that
| goes against the cultural beliefs of the majority?
|
| My rebuttal ,if I understood you, would be to point at
| the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship of
| the masses.
|
| You hopefully can't legalize lynching in a liberal
| democracy even going by their original intent, which
| includes human rights and civil liberties.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy
| Eisenstein wrote:
| > The supposed human trafficking charges against him
| appear to be completely bogus and Kafka-esque, and
| therefore violate his rights against arbitrary arrest and
| detention.
|
| I don't know enough details on the 'kafka-esque' nature
| of the charges, so I won't comment on them, but he has
| more than one credible rape accusations him against in
| his home country, and he talks openly about using women
| as sex workers and taking their income from it.
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| It's hard to judge what is true or not, especially if
| it's about a public figure and especially when said
| public figure seems to be making the most idiotic choices
| ever.
|
| There are plenty of women pretending to be cool, even
| doing rape role play and then using recorder material to
| blackmail men. He was obviously into BDSM stuff (he was
| being grilled for a video in which he was hitting a woman
| with a belt - the woman went on video to record it was
| consensual), so it would be incredibly easy to trap and
| blackmail.
|
| Similar situation with human trafficking: the girls were
| always free to leave but they were getting paid for sex
| work. He was for sure a digital pimp (not sure if that's
| a crime).
|
| Overall, I don't think Tate is an actual abuser: it would
| be incredibly stupid to go public with such a past; I'd
| bet he is just a self centered narcissist who likes to
| get into risky and dumb situations and thinks nothing bad
| will happen to him because he's God.
| Eisenstein wrote:
| > it would be incredibly stupid
|
| > I'd bet he is just a self centered narcissist
|
| These two things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one
| would think that a narcissist who has gotten away with it
| all his life would think he was invulnerable. It
| certainly tracks that he would be open about it.
|
| And really, if it walks like a rapist, and it talks like
| a rapist, and it acts like a rapist... it is probably a
| rapist.
| napierzaza wrote:
| [dead]
| more_corn wrote:
| You appear to be utilizing non-objective information
| sources. You are almost certainly incorrect in your
| assessment.
| jrflowers wrote:
| Can you elaborate on how you know that the human
| trafficking charges are bogus?
| skilled wrote:
| [flagged]
| Eldt wrote:
| Sounds like a parasocial bias
| PicassoCTs wrote:
| They were for assange, and various other dissidents..
| jrflowers wrote:
| This is a good point. An entirely unrelated person was
| accused of a completely different crime in a different
| country once. This is proof that human trafficking
| doesn't exist.
| arrosenberg wrote:
| Even if you believe that, Andrew Tate isn't a dissident,
| nor does he have any claims to journalistic protections.
| At best he's a deep-fried Tom Leykis and at worst he's a
| human trafficker.
| [deleted]
| Ms-J wrote:
| "especially when we offend"
|
| This is a fundamental premise of freedom of speech and a
| large reason as to why it exists.
|
| For some reason your comment was flagged, I vouched and
| voted it up.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| I don't find that comment objectionable because it is in
| favour of freedom of speech, I find it objectionable
| because it pretends someone with multiple credible
| allegations of rape and associates who admit to using
| violence to incite women into sex crimes, who admitted to
| running illegal casinos and who says he moved to Romania
| because he doesn't have to follow the law is only in
| legal trouble because people disagree with his ideas and
| has done nothing illegal that would warrant charges.
| hotdogscout wrote:
| Thank you! This happens way too often here, thoughtful
| arguments being flagged because a few with enough karma
| believe socialist ideals are mandatory.
| martin1975 wrote:
| It's not. I come from that area. He's telling the truth.
| marcinzm wrote:
| His statement being factual and his statement, admitting to
| breaking laws in Kosovo, being a rational thing to say
| publicly are different things.
| coldtea wrote:
| It's perfectly rational if nobody cares about the laws
| being broken there, and they will have no repurcursion
| for admitting to it.
| krisoft wrote:
| Not at all. Admiting it publicly has all kind of
| repercussions internationaly even if there are none
| locally.
| freehorse wrote:
| They cannot be arrested in Croatia or anywhere else for
| breaking laws in Kosovo.
| ZiiS wrote:
| Most banks etc will cut business even if you cannot be
| arested.
| Ms-J wrote:
| Thankfully there are alternatives to banks when they try
| to dictate, such as cryptocurrency or even Hawala. I've
| used both with great success.
| marcinzm wrote:
| Bribery is illegal in many countries including
| specifically the bribing of foreign public officials
| including in Croatia.
| marcinzm wrote:
| There being no immediate repercussions doesn't mean there
| aren't going to be any long term when you basically give
| governments a loaded gun aimed at your own head.
| Eventually someone might decide to use it even if the
| reason for it has nothing to do with the gun.
|
| This is a person who, by their own statement, had out of
| context IRC logs used by the government to convict him of
| a different crime.
| zgluck wrote:
| Yes. That is also why we need to keep Kosovo out of the EU
| until this has been fixed - which I'm pretty sure won't
| happen any time soon :(.
| CSMastermind wrote:
| I've heard similar things about Romania and Bulgaria
| which are both EU countries.
| Longhanks wrote:
| Corruption is also common practice within the EU (see:
| Eva Kaili), most of the upper EU just hides it better
| while pointing fingers at "unaligned" states, inside and
| outside of the EU.
|
| If Von der Leyen wasn't corrupt, I'm sure she wouldn't
| have any problem handing over her texts.
| worrycue wrote:
| > If Von der Leyen wasn't corrupt, I'm sure she wouldn't
| have any problem handing over her texts.
|
| Haven't found much on this. Frankly there is no need to
| allege corruption against this particular EU politician
| when there are better examples like those involved with
| the Qatar scandal.
| mvanbaak wrote:
| > wouldn't have any problem handing over her texts
|
| This is the same non-reason as is being brought up with
| cameras filming you 24/7 etc. 'You dont have to worry if
| you have nothing to hide' ... It's an invasion of
| privacy, and it is worth fighting against that.
| yunohn wrote:
| This is an absurd argument.
|
| We're talking about texts between the EU President and
| Pfizer's CEO, not some randos.
|
| https://www.politico.eu/article/new-york-times-sue-
| european-...
| logifail wrote:
| > It's an invasion of privacy, and it is worth fighting
| against that
|
| VdL should have a private phone and a work phone, just
| like everyone else.
|
| If these work messages are from her work phone, she
| should hand them over. If they are work messages on her
| private phone, she should also hand them over. She simply
| cannot claim to have been having non-work conversations
| with anyone at Pfizer.
| mvanbaak wrote:
| I have non-work conversations with staff and coworkers at
| work all the time, and also work related conversations on
| private channels from time to time. The world is not as
| black-and-white as you think it is.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| Being forced to share correspondence related to your job
| as a public official seems different to exposing your
| entire life to a camera.
| brightlancer wrote:
| Was she acting as a private individual or as a government
| official?
|
| Government has ZERO right to privacy; government agents
| in their capacity have ZERO right to privacy.
|
| If a government agent uses a private account to do
| government business, then a) they should be fired/
| removed and charged for trying to hide that business and
| b) those accounts should be turned over to the
| government, redacted of anything not related to the
| government business, and everything else made public.
|
| A private individual has a right to privacy. Government,
| including anyone acting as its agent, do not.
| izacus wrote:
| Plenty of things are "heard" with dubious truthfulness.
| mhitza wrote:
| Romania has high levels of corruption, but when we
| entered the EU we had high levels of overt corruption.
|
| I'll never forget during the presidential elections of
| early 2010s (or around that time) (we joined EU in 2007)
| when a member of the loosing party (which would then
| become our prime minister), Victor Ponta, stated frankly,
| in an interview, that they lost because his party stole
| fewer votes (bribing the poor with meager amounts of
| household products to vote for them, which is a favorite
| campaign activity around here).
|
| However to combat this prolific corruption (in part
| because of EU mandate), around the same time, our winning
| president instated the National Anticorruption
| Directorate (DNA in Romanian) which is a "taskforce" of
| judges and lawyers investigating these highly profilic
| cases.
|
| It became moderately successful (there's always room for
| improvement). The EU took note, and brought in members of
| the directorate to instate a similar structure centrally
| as an EU institution (for cross border corruption cases),
| and afaik the process has been set in motion to instate
| the same directorare in Bulgaria (under the guide of a
| certain prosecution attorney that lead this directorare
| in Romania, Laura Codruta Kovesi).
| OfSanguineFire wrote:
| Whenever foreigners bring corruption in Romania, I try to
| emphasize that while it exists, it is no longer very
| visible unless you are in fairly high-level business and
| politics. There was a time when everyone on the bus had
| to contribute 5EUR when crossing the border, so that the
| customs officials wouldn't go through everyone's luggage.
| A time when you couldn't register a sole proprietorship
| without at least offering the clerk some chocolate or
| whatever as a token bribe. But that all disappeared about
| 2006 and life in Romania is little different from Western
| EU states.
| optimalsolver wrote:
| *losing
|
| Just FYI.
| yankput wrote:
| Well we first need to fix the tensions with Serbia, which
| is impossible.
| skilled wrote:
| It sounds like you have never been to a country where money
| can buy anything you want, including freedom. Many such
| countries in the world.
| dale_glass wrote:
| Such countries exist, but as this case and Andrew Tate
| show, actually putting it in such frank terms may not be a
| good idea.
|
| Yeah, maybe you can buy yourself out of trouble. But I
| suspect in many such cases the people involved prefer to be
| bought quietly.
|
| Make things too uncomfortably public or too embarrassing
| and the same people might well throw the book at you.
| skilled wrote:
| I don't know the specifics of his case but it is my
| understanding that EU isn't as easily bought as South
| America or Southeast Asia for example.
|
| The latter has a system that doesn't "include"
| foreigners, whereas someplace like Romania is a lot more
| Westernized and offering a bribe carries a lot more risk.
| purple_elephant wrote:
| But you don't say these things out loud. Swiss bank ads
| don't look like this: "Genocidal dictators, we will help
| you hide your money!"
| someweirdperson wrote:
| You are just not part of the right target group, so
| facebook won't show them to you.
| lb1lf wrote:
| Well, money will only buy you freedom in such places until
| you annoy someone with deeper pockets than you have
| sufficiently so that they want you to wind up behind bars.
|
| Corruption is an equal opportunity weapon.
| [deleted]
| skilled wrote:
| Sure, but that's in extreme cases. For small stuff like
| papers, permits and such - talking to the right people
| will get you anywhere you want to go.
|
| I still remember handing over my passport to a guy on a
| sports bike in Singapore to get an extended stamp for
| Indonesia, and only a few years later did it occur to me
| how sketchy the whole situation was.
| AwaAwa wrote:
| You mean all, it's just the amount that differs.
| bcye wrote:
| Parody, honeypot, maybe both
| tedivm wrote:
| Seriously- I feel like I was just added to several
| government watch lists simply for opening that page.
| sgjohnson wrote:
| I know the guy. No, it's not a parody.
| yankput wrote:
| The Serbian community in Kosovo kind of ignores all laws.
|
| Up until recently they basically had free/stolem electricity
| and they used it to mine bitcoin for free.
| dtx1 wrote:
| They should rename themselves to basedhost after that statement
| KingLancelot wrote:
| [dead]
| abwizz wrote:
| could be targeted marketing essentially saying "don't worry,
| it'll be fine"
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| Wouldn't full disclosure make them, in some sense, _honest_?
|
| Also, you have just condemned entire nations of people, like
| those who lived under Soviet domination, where bribery became
| custom, because if you wanted to accomplish _anything_ , you
| had to bribe the people involved. Just got married and want an
| apartment for your new family? You could submit a housing
| application, but it _might_ bubble up to the top of the queue
| by the time you hit retirement. A bribe given to the woman in
| the office handling the paperwork can help grease the track.
| Have a totally curable disease that, without intervention, can
| kill you? Well, you could have your name added to a long wait
| list and have your treatment started next year, or you could
| "gift" your state-pensioned doctor a cognac, some luxury
| chocolates, and an envelop containing a "tip" to shorten the
| wait time. Need to travel abroad? Well, guess what. The
| passport stays with the government for "safe keeping". They
| might not be in a hurry to let you leave, just yet. However,
| with a few enticing arrangements and exchanges, you'll be on
| the next plane headed over the Iron Curtain.
|
| In other words, I'm not convinced bribes are a categorically
| wrong thing for someone to offer. To receive, on the other
| hand...
| barrysteve wrote:
| He condemned accurately.
|
| The soviet system sounds pointlessly overloaded with middle
| men. Why not abandon the "official system with middle men
| bribes" and descend all the way into mafia families and
| protection rackets?
|
| No matter the empathy I have for the suffering. What is the
| point of offering a bribe, to bully the system, in the same
| way the receiver intends to break the rules?
|
| Just tell the truth and say the system sucks. You scratch my
| back and I'll scratch yours done en masse, hardens society
| for everyone and then you have to bribe, like the Soviets
| did.
| iudqnolq wrote:
| Not necessarily. Making that statement, setting up in a country
| that has enough issues to make it plausible, and then not
| paying the bribe would also make a lot of sense. See also: no
| log VPNs that actually were logging.
|
| Worst case scenario they shut down, collaborate fully with the
| police and keep all the profits up til then. Better case
| scenario they make a deal with the police and keep operating
| and making profits while covertly providing assistance. Best
| case scenario the issue never comes up and they make all the
| profits without having to spend those expenses.
|
| My impression is that in this kind of shady web hosting the
| companies never last that long so you wouldn't want to invest a
| lot in bribes and multiple data centers and so on when you
| could lie and make short term profit.
|
| Note also that corruption isn't a boolean flag. First off the
| cop make take the exact same strategy: take your money, do
| nothing else, and hope their boss never gets interested in you
| while planning not to protect you if anything comes up.
| Furthermore there are all sorts of anticorruption efforts in
| that area linked to US aid. That doesn't mean there isn't
| corruption, it does mean that if a major US corp works with the
| FBI in a major investigation the local police may rather piss
| you off than lose critical aid funding.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Which vpn was no-log-but-logging? I was shopping around for
| an alternative after mullvad blocked port forwarding, but it
| seems like no one else is as trustworthy. Not that I need it
| for my "attempt to port forward smash ultimate from within
| crummy hospital internet" purposes, but hey, principle of the
| thing and all that.
| foobiekr wrote:
| All of them.
| trogdor wrote:
| I am all-but-certain that NordVPN doesn't. I am in
| possession of records from a recent police investigation
| in which law enforcement subpoenaed NordVPN and the
| company replied, essentially, that they had no
| information connecting a particular IP address, at a
| specific date and time, to any specific user.
|
| (I am a reporter who covers law enforcement and crime.)
| Etheryte wrote:
| You must be mistaking NordVPN for Mullvad.
| rvba wrote:
| Looking at the scale of NordVPN they either already have
| a liason with aurhorities inside, or are hacked by
| authorities.
|
| The (law enforcement) agencies can just go to the few
| biggest VPN suppliers. Just like they go to FAANG.
| chollida1 wrote:
| > Looking at the scale of NordVPN they either already
| have a liason with aurhorities inside, or are hacked by
| authorities.
|
| Based on what? You just seem to be making a wild
| unsubstantiated conjecture here.
| tarboreus wrote:
| It's obviously an unsubstantiated statement, but given
| all the concrete information on the MOs of alphabet
| agencies, it seems like a reasonable bet. If they haven't
| done one of those things, they probably just haven't
| gotten around to it yet.
| [deleted]
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| It's the perfect honeypot situation, isn't it?
| Nanana909 wrote:
| Is it that wild? There are a few questions we have to ask
|
| 1. Do these agencies have the motivation to do the above?
| I think the answer here is an obvious yes to everyone
|
| 2. Do these agencies have the technical ability to hack
| the VPNs, the finances to pay them for access, or some
| other reasonable measure to coerce compliance?
|
| If 1 and 2 are both true, then the OP claim is also
| certainly true.
|
| Given that 1 is true, I don't think it's "wild" to claim
| that these agencies cannot satisfy 2. In fact I'd say
| given the historical record, the more wild claim is that
| the CIA/NSA etc is incapable of satisfying #2.
| ejiblabahaba wrote:
| Are you sure you're not thinking of Mullvad?
|
| Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35638917
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| buy a cheap vps server with btc and setup your own vpn
| UnixSchizoid wrote:
| Or you could use a cloud providers free tier, but then
| you have to give up your credit card info and name for
| "verification"
| remram wrote:
| You'd have to hope the VPS host is not logging...
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| > Further, as Kosovo is an extremely corrupt country, we are
| able to bribe both executive and judicative as well as getting
| information about court orders and raids before execution.
|
| What happens if someone else is willing to pay a higher bribe
| than you are...?
| atmosx wrote:
| No more ping-pong...
| coldtea wrote:
| Or if the order comes with strong pressure from the mafia or
| the government, and it's not ammenable to a bribe-override?
| codedokode wrote:
| Bribes don't work like a shop where you can come from the
| street and buy something. You need to have connections first.
| beebmam wrote:
| That's for the discount
| rchaud wrote:
| It's to ensure that someone in the network has pre-
| screened you, and that you understand the rules about how
| the bribe is to be paid.
| not_alexb wrote:
| In fact, bribes can walk up to you without any connection
| to you (re: corrupt police)
| bell-cot wrote:
| _Competent_ corrupt officials can do the math, and understand
| ongoing 1X bribes are far better than poisoning their money
| tree by stupidly accepting a one-time 10X bribe.
| novok wrote:
| until they want to retire
| tamimio wrote:
| That actually made me laugh loud!
| aleph_minus_one wrote:
| > understand ongoing 1X bribes are far better than
| poisoning their money tree by stupidly accepting a one-time
| 10X bribe.
|
| Relevant concept: Present Value of Future Cashflows (see
| for example
| https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/presentvalue.asp).
| moonchrome wrote:
| In a volatile place covering for illegal thing that can
| bite you in the ass - you'll take the payout, gain
| political points by cooperating with some agency and spin
| yourself as a hero in the case.
| optimalsolver wrote:
| "There's probably no one so easily bribed, but he lacks
| even the fundamental honesty of honorable corruption. He
| doesn't stay bribed; not for any sum."
|
| -Discussion of a rather sinister court official in Isaac
| Asimov's 'Foundation And Empire'
| yyyk wrote:
| It's more complicated than that. After all, these bribes
| aren't exactly public and transparent. A competent corrupt
| official can always pocket the 10x and pretend that the 1x
| target didn't pay in time, or that some other official did
| it, or some other excuse.
| hesdeadjim wrote:
| I've seen it in the business world, but trust is everything
| and if you break it once even accidentally good luck. When
| crime enters the picture you probably won't ever get more
| than a single chance, or worse, be in physical danger if
| you do.
| watwut wrote:
| I dunno. The one thing I took away from reading both
| memoirs of people involved in crime (yes it exists) and
| reports about their court cases is that there is no honor
| among chiefs.
|
| And there is very little trust too. They lie and defraud
| each other constantly. They do kill each other too, but
| most often because someone knows too much or has
| something want.
| alephxyz wrote:
| The saying is no honor among _thieves_. Unless you mean
| chiefs as in c-suite, in which case it's also accurate.
| leonewton253 wrote:
| Found his email via reverse ip: me@william.co.il
|
| https://rdns.im https://prnt.li https://william.co.il
| https://whois.domaintools.com/basehost.eu
| decremental wrote:
| [dead]
| croes wrote:
| Back then in Germany they charged the people who reported CP.
| onetimeusename wrote:
| _Someone used the same exit to hack a NATO facility in Poland,
| which deals with chemical and biological weapons. Disarming, etc.
|
| The US tried to extradite me from Croatia in 2017, with not much
| more info than national security.
|
| They lost their case as I am married to a local and cannot be
| extradited outside the EU._
|
| So once again the "think of the children" motive is used to cover
| for intelligence interests.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| Always, and in all ways
| jaylittle wrote:
| I stopped running a Tor non-exit node from home a few years back,
| because a lot of websites and platforms blacklist any IP
| associated with Tor. I couldn't actually watch anything on Hulu
| for years (though they were still happy to take my money, which I
| refused to give them) because of this.
|
| Running a tor node is a thankless thing one can choose to do.
| Nevertheless I did for years. I don't do it anymore.
| chrsig wrote:
| > Running a tor node is a thankless thing one can choose to do.
| Nevertheless I did for years. I don't do it anymore.
|
| It's hard to determine tor's net-value to society, since it's
| such a double bladed sword. I'm not sure it's something
| deserving of thanks.
| Sterm wrote:
| This is the point where you need to check your privilege. I
| used tor when living in a dictatorship to find out things
| which would destroy the moral fabric of society, such as
| information about lgbtqia+ issues, what condoms are, pop
| music and news that the government didn't want to spread.
| ReactiveJelly wrote:
| I'm a Tor user. It's also hard to determine because so much
| of the web is read-only or downright inaccessible via Tor.
|
| Most big sites use a chain of reputation like this:
|
| 1. To have an account on our site, you need a reputable
| email. Mailinator doesn't count. 2. To get a reputable email
| (GMail, Outlook, etc.) you need to sacrifice a phone number
| to receive texts to prove you aren't a bot. 3. There are no
| free VoIP services. Or they're blocked.
|
| Reddit usually lets me create accounts without email, but I'm
| guessing they will cut this off soon.
|
| I'm on a friendly Mastodon instance, but I had to offer a
| bogus email to register, which is technically dishonesty.
|
| YouTube sometimes works.
|
| I had a Discord account for a while. One of my ERP partners
| was willing to take the hit and set up a GMail account and
| Discord account for me (Discord wouldn't even let me in, I
| had to have him create the account and then give me the
| password.)
|
| But I didn't log in to Discord for a while, and recently it
| said "Hey check for a confirmation email". I went to log in
| to GMail and it said, "Hey this is suspicious, please give us
| a phone number."
|
| So there's no point re-joining, if I can only talk to people
| and have a "free" email address for as long as I can cyber-
| fuck someone into letting me borrow his phone. And I won't
| buy a burner phone because it's likely to have the same
| problems, plus all the PITA of real-life opsec.
|
| The gratis web is fading to nothing. Everyone wants
| something. None of it is truly free. The fediverse instances
| will run as long as they get donations, but charities are
| subject to a tragedy of the commons. They will eventually
| close up registrations if enough humans join for the parasite
| bots to follow them.
|
| People ask me why I bother. I must admit the payoff is not
| big.
|
| I bother _on principle_. Anonymity is something that I
| _should_ have. I don't look at CP or anything. I do this
| because I like to learn, I like to practice, I like to know.
| You may as well write it off as religion and ask a Christian
| why they attend church or a Jain why they don't eat onions. I
| simply believe it is worth doing.
| brightlancer wrote:
| > The gratis web is fading to nothing. Everyone wants
| something. None of it is truly free. The fediverse
| instances will run as long as they get donations, but
| charities are subject to a tragedy of the commons. They
| will eventually close up registrations if enough humans
| join for the parasite bots to follow them.
|
| You blame "everyone wants something" but it's more clear in
| your last sentence: abuse by unverified users.
|
| Lots of folks will provide services for free (actually
| free, no data collection etc.) but very few folks have the
| disposable income to _pay_ for someone to handle abuse.
|
| So folks who provide popular services long-term have to
| find some way to pay for it. OMG, imagine that.
|
| With the caveat that cryptocurrencies are usually rubbish,
| cryptocurrencies have allowed folks to anonymously pay for
| anonymous access to services. This won't work for most
| mainstream services (in large part because of government
| opposition), but it's an option. At some point which I hope
| to live to see, we'll go back to the old days of
| anonymously paying for anonymous access. (Cash was
| awesome.)
| tamimio wrote:
| >Running a tor node is a thankless thing one can choose to do.
|
| One might argue that's the case with most activities on the
| internet, maintaining an open source projects for free? Helping
| others in forums and online discussions? Dedicating time to
| find good articles to submit to HN!? The only thing you will
| get is some brownie points online. I believe who does run an
| exit node usually aren't motivated by thanks and upvotes, that
| being said, thanks for your time and efforts running that node!
| fruitreunion1 wrote:
| It's so silly that some sites block addresses that weren't exit
| nodes.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Thank you for operating it as long as you did.
| momentoftop wrote:
| At various times, I have run a Tor relay node on a spare VPS. I
| think I stopped in the end because my available bandwidth was
| pretty below par, and I suspected I wasn't helping the network
| very much.
| ilyt wrote:
| I tried, after 2 months my VPS provider basically said "either
| you close it down or we close you down" as they were getting
| requests to take it down (IIRC DMCA or other bullshit like
| that)
| haakon wrote:
| I still do it, and have been for over a decade, and I'm rarely
| bothered by it. I think I get a few more captchas because of
| it, and I can't load https://www.investopedia.com, which I
| would frequently like to, but that's it.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Looks like there's more going on than what the title implies
| about the Tor exit node:
|
| > What do you do now?
|
| >SSI left Austria and now work for a German company in IT, and
| have a data center in Kosovo... hosting grey area things there.
| Warez primarily.
|
| > Also, I do want to add that I have more backstory. The CP was
| not the only reason for the raid.
|
| He goes on to mention someone using the exit node to try to hack
| a NATO facility.
|
| That said, the "confiscate first, come up with a fitting crime
| later" approach countries take on a whim are deeply troubling.
|
| It sounds like they have had their suspicions against this man
| for a while (not without reason, it seems) and saw the child porn
| report as a chance to pounce on him, but later found out they
| didn't have as strong a case as they might have wished.
| peytoncasper wrote:
| Why don't we put Tor nodes in space?
|
| Seems like a few hundred micro satellites could circumvent
| sovereignty this way.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Only 11-year-old Libertarians think this way. "Circumventing
| sovereignty" is the surest way to destruction. Anyone who
| stands outside the protection of a legitimate sovereign power
| will be immediately destroyed by a real country. If you fly
| your shit out in space and declare your satellites to be
| independent of any flag, I am sure that they will all promptly
| disappear due to mysterious causes. Likewise, if you believe
| that you will simply move to a remote floating platform where
| you declare independence, you will soon discover what the U.S.
| Navy is for.
| sunbum wrote:
| How would they get network? Ground stations would just
| blacklist them.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Ground stations aren't commodities. You'd need to build your
| own just like any existing sat network.
|
| I agree it's a pipe dream. Launch costs are too high and
| nobody will approve this.
| treyd wrote:
| You still need downlinks with this. You _could_ have some base
| stations run by amateurs, but that paints a target on their
| backs in a similar way running a Tor node already does.
| ghaff wrote:
| As with Sealand/HavenCo and international waters/micronations
| more broadly. Even if no country with guns chooses to take
| direct action, it takes very little--if they care enough--to
| cut off supplies and any meaningful communications.
| mikae1 wrote:
| Does anyone remember https://wired.com/2007/01/the-pirate-
| bay-2/ ?
| IshKebab wrote:
| You need approval to launch satellites. Plus a stupid amount of
| money.
| zer8k wrote:
| It would probably be easier to leave an exit node on a barge in
| international waters to be honest.
| ilyt wrote:
| and provide internet _to who_ ? Exit node still needs ISP to
| connect to.
| tamimio wrote:
| They will most likely be owned by a company that still under a
| jurisdiction on earth.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| *not in the US
| kristopolous wrote:
| This kind of stuff has happened many times before.
|
| I did a video about "the dark web" a couple years ago where I
| talked about people on zeronet and freenet getting snagged
| because of potentially the contents of their cache store. It's
| made for a non technical audience
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3gMJlQU9TDQ
| luvthis wrote:
| [dead]
| chad1n wrote:
| I'd avoid hosting a tor exit node at all costs, considering that
| they are a lot of bad actors on tor. Even some 3 letter agents
| can host cp on your tor sites and then accuse you.
| gruez wrote:
| >Even some 3 letter agents can host cp on your tor sites and
| then accuse you.
|
| You can't use exit nodes to run "tor sites", because they only
| allow outbound connections. You can run hidden services, but
| they work entirely through relays (ie. not exit nodes). Given
| that hidden services are end to end encrypted (none of the
| relays in the middle can see the traffic), and to my knowledge
| _relay_ operators have generally not been prosecuted, your
| specific scenario is unlikely to play out.
|
| That said, if you're running a exit node and the FBI wants to
| frame you, they can still use your relay to conduct some
| illegal action (eg. uploading CSAM to some clearnet site), and
| pin it on you.
| lucasap wrote:
| If you become an ISP (with your AS) then it is less of a
| concern (in the US) since ISP have some protections. Emerald
| Onion [0] is an example of doing this. Actually in their faq
| [1], they state:
|
| "Digital Millennium Copyright Act Safe Harbor
|
| The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) offers four safe
| harbors to protect ISPs from copyright liability for the acts
| of their users, provided that certain requirements are met (17
| U.S.C. SS 512). Emerald Onion is a section 512(a) "conduit"
| provider."
|
| If you want to read the section it is here:
| https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512 (it is generally
| about "Limitations on liability relating to material online"
| not just copyright)
|
| [0] https://emeraldonion.org/
|
| [1] https://emeraldonion.org/faq/
| palata wrote:
| > Even some 3 letter agents can host cp on your tor sites and
| then accuse you.
|
| Well they can probably put illegal material in your apartment
| and then accuse you.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Yes but you're unlikely to be on their radar, a lot more
| likely though when you're running exit nodes and your IP
| comes up in investigations.
| palata wrote:
| Sorry, but I don't think it's quite how it works. Because
| you show up in an investigation doesn't mean that the
| police will frame you.
| rolph wrote:
| its also possible to mail it to you under a "controlled
| delivery" investigation
| vorticalbox wrote:
| I'm under the impression that mail doesn't "belong" to you
| until it is opened.
| rolph wrote:
| its not very hard to convince someone to open or sign for
| registered mail.
|
| this usually last resort with hopes of eliciting self
| incriminatory statements.
|
| i.e. [i didnt do the CP i was just snooping servers]
| thallavajhula wrote:
| This is similar to the first Episode of the "Mr. Robot" tv show.
| wow.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Not really. That person in the show didn't run an exit node but
| an entire commercial content network. The person in this case
| has no involvement in creating or hosting content, he's just
| involved in transporting traffic (any kind) because he believes
| in anonimity. His only motive is a principle, not money and he
| certainly doesn't agree with the content.
|
| I loved that scene by the way, where he disregards the changes
| of emotional state in his target and then just explains he's
| doing this in person because his shrink wants him to interact
| more with people.
|
| A really super strong first 10 minutes of a truly excellent
| show. Well except season 2 IMO, that was too drawn out for me.
| noAnswer wrote:
| He runs https://basehost.eu
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Yes but I don't think he did back when this happened? And
| still he's only a "bulletproof" hoster as far as I
| understand.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Might be worth adding (in 2012/Austria) to the title. Few people
| understood what Tor was back then.
| puffyengineer wrote:
| Good.
| npteljes wrote:
| How?
| DoItToMe81 wrote:
| What are the aforementioned "taken out of context" IRC logs? Very
| curious to see if they were painting the bullseye around the
| arrow here, or if he actually said he'd host CP.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| The eternal struggle. Information wants to be free, and then
| people use those freedoms to do the most screwed up things
| imaginable, and people like this pay the price.
|
| It's a damn shame how the original cyberpunk dream played out. We
| could've had a world where companies couldn't do anything about
| people using their ideas. Instead we get one where you can't even
| be anonymous without rubbing elbows with child predators.
|
| It's surprising how much anonymity and the subject at hand are
| correlated. In my 20s I liked to explore, as I'm sure many of you
| do too. I once met someone in the Whonix community who wanted to
| nix google maps entirely; he spent a lot of time downloading maps
| and trying to make a way to view them locally, which I think is
| going to be prescient one day. It already is in many parts of the
| world -- you don't have cell service, so you can't just pull up
| google maps. Nowadays starlink solves that problem, but back then
| it wasn't clear that we'd ever be able to have maps at our
| fingertips regardless of internet access. This was back in the
| era of that poor CNET reporter that got lost with his family in
| the mountains precisely because of no maps, and ended up dying to
| exposure when he went to get help. Never leave your car.
|
| I found all of this fascinating. What a project! Make all of
| google maps accessible right from your phone, with no internet. I
| briefly fell in love with that community.
|
| Ultimately what drove me away was the literal flood of child porn
| that was always right next to anything to do with tor, whonix, or
| anonymity in general. I have a pretty high tolerance for
| "operating in gray areas," like this guy. But one of the
| tragedies of the cyberpunk dream is that the entire scene has
| been coopted by cp. In some sense cp is the ultimate test of
| anonymity, since you'll be thrown in prison pretty much instantly
| if caught. So perhaps it's no surprise that it's the most common
| and pervasive result of anonymity, but it sure is a shame.
| failuser wrote:
| Cyberpunk was not about a dream. It was more of a warning to
| all those people who thought that technology will bring utopia.
| "High tech, low life" is the guiding principle of cyberpunk --
| technology will not solve societal problems all the cool tech
| brings issues that were not foreseen. With corrupt government
| and corporations not going anywhere just because the
| computations and communications got faster.
| belorn wrote:
| > you can't even be anonymous without rubbing elbows with child
| predators.
|
| Statistically there is quite a large number of criminals in my
| city, and since I visit shops and other parts of the city, I am
| bound to unknowingly to me been rubbing elbows with those
| criminals. We are all anonymous to each other, and what can I
| really know about the person in front of me in the store. Go
| past a few hundred people and someone will be a person I would
| not associate myself with, and yet here I am living in the same
| city as them using the same infrastructure, and in some way
| enabling the activity by contributing taxes.
|
| Not to say I don't understand the emotional reaction people
| have. I have relatives in the countryside that refuse to visit
| the city because of all the criminals that they hear about. It
| is also fairly common to hear people moving out of the city to
| the calmer suburbs in order to get out of all the shootings and
| crime. I also do know first hand that if you go and look for
| it, finding drug dealers and shady activity is not exactly a
| big secret. Go to specific streets or part of the city and it's
| operated in plain sight.
|
| I've always seen the original cyberpunk dream as being
| analogous to a city, with all its benefits and drawbacks.
| throwaway914 wrote:
| There are many, many pedophiles out there. I'm also convinced
| of a conspiracy theory that a lot of dark web traffic and hosts
| are created/operated by secret parts of the gov to de-
| legitimize the need for anonymity. I believe this because it
| would be too easy with the access to that material and no
| oversight. Just muddy the waters so nothing in there looks
| worth protecting.
|
| </tinfoil-hat>
| barrysteve wrote:
| You literally don't need a tinfoil conspiracy for that idea.
|
| IBM is moving to passwordless auth on their server access.
| Preferring biometrics. Their youtube channel tells you
| directly.
|
| The "mainstream" culture has been pushing that idea for five
| years now, Philomena Cunk said we shouldn't follow the
| anonymous guy in 2018, golly gosh.
|
| My iphone plainly face scans me and my shopping malls and
| sports stadiums do the same.
|
| Frankly the last place left to BE anonymous is Tor and on
| soap-box websites like this where the admin can decipher my
| ID but you don't know who I am.
|
| Obiwan has the realistic attitude. "The war's over. We lost."
|
| It's impossible to completely eliminate secrets, but the
| liberty of the 1990s is deader than a dodo. Anonymity, the
| unknown citizen, staying off the map is basically reserved
| for martians now.
| ip26 wrote:
| _There are many, many..._
|
| It's a little puzzling to me still why this is. Physical
| attraction to almost-adults isn't some big mystery, but most
| cp is something else entirely.
| Eisenstein wrote:
| I'm curious about how you make the distinction. Does it
| make sense to you that adult men would be attracted to each
| other? If so, how is this fundamentally different than any
| other non-procreative human-human attraction? It is not
| obviously evolutionarily beneficial for adults of the same
| sex to be attracted to each other, so why is this in
| particular a mystery?
|
| I contend that human sexuality is not easy to
| compartmentalize and that it does not exist in any
| particular way as an obvious evolutionary benefit except
| for adult-adult-heterosexual.
|
| Of course rapists (including child molesters) should be
| kept from offending and otherwise punished for offenses
| because of the harm that it causes, but nothing about any
| sexual orientations seems strange to me that it exists.
|
| Of course I am not able to understand on an innate level
| since I don't feel the same way. I'm not sure anyone could
| really understand what it is like to be of a different
| orientation because it is so intertwined with the self that
| it is just incomprehensible. One can understand in the
| sense that one can acknowledge it, but I don't think one
| can understand in the sense that they actually 'get' it.
|
| I'm interested in other people's perspectives on this
| thougjh.
| jrflowers wrote:
| I'm no expert here but I'm going to guess that
| equivocating gay people and pedophiles is not the best
| starting point to understanding pedophiles.
| [deleted]
| Eisenstein wrote:
| Do you agree that 'adult-adult-hetersexual' is the only
| orientation that has obvious evolutionary benefit? If so
| then every other orientation does not. There is no
| 'equivocation' there is only 'why would anything else
| exist?'. My contention is 'who knows?', but if you accept
| that one orientation without evolutionary benefit exists,
| then why would you be confused that another different one
| also exists? It is not 'homosexuals and pedophiles are
| the same'.
| jrflowers wrote:
| I like this question because you explicitly ask me to
| agree with your premise that pedophiles and gay people
| are equivalent within your framing of this discussion and
| then follow it up with "my contention is something other
| than what I've clearly explained"
| [deleted]
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >it does not exist in any particular way as an obvious
| evolutionary benefit except for adult-adult-heterosexual.
|
| it's not unique to nature. You're in heat, you want to
| mate with anything that looks attractive. What's
| attractive will vary immensely based on societal and
| personal experience, for reasons we still cannot fully
| understand as the human mind is still a huge secret to
| unlock. It's not perfect in the same way that few parts
| of nature are perfectly optimized. Remants of old
| patterns or general heuristics on "what is good enough"
| will remain and they can persist for very long times.
|
| The only unique-ish thing about humans is that we have no
| "mating period". We are continuously in heat compared to
| most of nature, so that urge remains around consistently.
| Virtually every form of society has evolved some sort of
| culture to control these urges (as well as ways to
| control sexual conflict, which is another topic entirely)
| in order to advance as a civilization otherwise it'd be
| non-stop mating
| nicoco wrote:
| Doesn't seem that much tinfoil hat to me. The Snowden leaks
| taught us that a bit of tinfoil hatting is reasonable. Before
| we had access to so many cop video footage, the ideas that
| they were the bad guys and did stuff like actually being the
| guys who attack and break stuff during protests were
| considered crazy. Etc, etc.
| sanderjd wrote:
| > _It's a damn shame how the original cyberpunk dream played
| out._
|
| Isn't it more, "This is why the original cyberpunk dream was
| always a naive and bad idea"?
|
| Like, it appealed to me too when I was young, but then I
| learned more about humans and our history and ...
| AnonymousPlanet wrote:
| Since when was cyberpunk a dream to be pursued? It's the
| opposite of a naive dream. It's a nightmare full of high tech
| and people living on scraps, constantly trying to keep up
| with the tech fallout from big corporations. One of the most
| iconic places in cyberpunk was literally described as being
| "like a deranged experiment in social Darwinism, designed by
| a bored researcher who kept the thumb permantently on the
| fast-forward button."
|
| How is this appealing? It's a warning, not a cosy idea to
| aspire to!
| hickelpickle wrote:
| I think the phrase people are looking for is cypherpunk,
| idk why the whole thread is referencing cyberpunk which has
| little to do with the subject matter and ideals being
| discussed, which are related to the cypherpunk movement.
| antod wrote:
| I think this is the difference between cyberpunk as a
| fiction genre and the views of the people calling
| themselves cyberpunks back in the day (or reading the Wired
| articles about them).
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| really depends on your literature. Star Trek's
| interpretation of the future is very different from Dune's.
| Much of cyberpunk tends to be cynical but there are some
| more utopic interpretations out there as well.
| [deleted]
| pessimizer wrote:
| > Instead we get one where you can't even be anonymous without
| rubbing elbows with child predators.
|
| There have been secretive child predators ever since statutory
| rape was invented. The reason that you didn't have to "rub
| elbows" with them is because our governments hadn't begun
| systematically closing off all avenues for anonymity other than
| the one that they built and maintain for their own spying. If
| there's only one way to be anonymous, you get to "rub elbows"
| with everyone who needs to be anonymous for any reason.
|
| It has nothing to do with child porn or crypto. Neither were
| responsible for the size of the distributed files kept on each
| of us to grow in orders of magnitude.
|
| Speaking of "maps at our fingertips," good luck finding one
| that doesn't result in a record of the lookup and any GPS data
| submitted with it being inserted into a half-dozen databases,
| all freely accessible by the government, or by anybody buying
| in bulk.
| nobody9999 wrote:
| >Speaking of "maps at our fingertips," good luck finding one
| that doesn't result in a record of the lookup and any GPS
| data submitted with it being inserted into a half-dozen
| databases, all freely accessible by the government, or by
| anybody buying in bulk.
|
| Et voila! Maps at your fingertips[0] with no
| logging/tracking. It's amazing what those ancient (ca. 1995)
| humans could do. Perhaps they had help from aliens -- as we
| couldn't possibly do any of that stuff by ourselves. /s
|
| [0] https://wwp.randmcnally.com/product/rand-mcnally-road-
| atlas
| colanderman wrote:
| > good luck finding one that doesn't result in a record of
| the lookup and any GPS data submitted with it being inserted
| into a half-dozen databases
|
| My handheld non-networked GPS unit with map tiles downloaded
| in bulk from OpenStreetMaps meets this criteria. Not very
| obscure.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >There have been secretive child predators ever since
| statutory rape was invented.
|
| Sure, emphasis on secretive. I'd hope that 'secretive' on the
| internet would mean more secretive than mistyping a query on
| a popular site's search engine. Or simply wandering into a
| linked, public website. But alas.
| kedean wrote:
| Just regarding your overall concern around maps and cellular
| service, Google Maps lets you download maps within very custom
| sized tiles for offline use. I'm partial to using them when
| hiking, so I can orient myself in areas where the actual trail
| markers become questionable.
|
| Routing doesn't really work offline, but that's a
| different/harder problem.
| daemontus wrote:
| No disrespect, I use offline Google maps almost daily, but
| there are far far better offline hiking apps out there.
|
| Google will probably work ok for the most popular trails, and
| I guess you can use it as a supercharged compass. But at
| least in Europe, if you actually plan a route in any
| mountains based on Google, you're in for an adventure :)
| akira2501 wrote:
| > Instead we get one where you can't even be anonymous without
| rubbing elbows with child predators.
|
| Says the person posting under the name "sillysaurusx."
|
| > Whonix community who wanted to nix google maps entirely; he
| spent a lot of time downloading maps and trying to make a way
| to view them locally, which I think is going to be prescient
| one day. It already is in many parts of the world -- you don't
| have cell service
|
| Here's an idea, maybe he should print those maps out, bind them
| together into a larger map, and then find a really complicated
| way to fold them up so he can keep them handy when needed.
|
| > In some sense cp is the ultimate test of anonymity, since
| you'll be thrown in prison pretty much instantly if caught.
|
| And yet.. it is still produced in the physical world where none
| of these constraints actually exist. It's only promulgated and
| marketed through anonymous means.
| asveikau wrote:
| >> [...] you can't even be anonymous [...]
|
| > Says the person posting under the name "sillysaurusx."
|
| I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. I recognize that
| username as someone who has been posting here for a long
| time. Not to encourage doxxing or making his identity the
| focus, but he has lots of contact details on his user
| profile. Tons of people are identifiable on here, even if the
| usernames are whimsical.
| [deleted]
| barrysteve wrote:
| Free information is worth what you paud for it.
|
| Authority figures and scientists don't share the expensive
| info.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > back then it wasn't clear that we'd ever be able to have maps
| at our fingertips regardless of internet access.
|
| Offline map databases were commom then; it wasn't uncommon for
| car navigation systems to come with them (expensive to update,
| though), as well as handheld devices
|
| In fact, while they were not _common_ before the 2000s, first-
| party navigation systems with offline digital maps for cars
| have been around at least since the 1980s, as have other forms
| of consumer offline digital maps. _Online_ maps are newer than
| offline.
|
| > This was back in the era of that poor CNET reporter that got
| lost with his family in the mountains precisely because of no
| maps
|
| The last of many critical errors before the car got stuck might
| have been avoided by using a map, but they had and used a paper
| map shortly before, when choosing the alternate route that was,
| in fact, closed; it wasn't a problem caused by maps not being
| _available_ (and there is a reason keeping paper road maps,
| especially of unfamiliar areas, when driving in them was a
| widespread practice until digital maps with automatic offline
| downloads tied to GPS became ubiquitous.
| mindslight wrote:
| Tangential to your much larger lament - OpenStreetMap, and
| specifically OSMAnd which is libre and free on F-droid, works
| great for offline maps that are downloaded ahead of time. (I
| think the version on Google Play limits the number of regions
| you can download unless you make a small donation).
| ragequitta wrote:
| Google maps offers this functionality. I've had my local map
| and maps of any place I regularly go to downloaded for many
| years.
| nullc wrote:
| Google times out the downloaded maps without warning, so
| you go to use them and find out it won't let you use them.
| grepfru_it wrote:
| It will eventually cease to exist.
|
| I went to Grenada in 2014 and used offline maps to drive
| around the island. In 2015 the tablet suffered an accident
| and I powered it off to deal with it later. 5 years later I
| power it back on without internet connectivity. Turns out
| the maps expired. So much for many years
| tetris11 wrote:
| Organic Maps on F-Droid, is a literal godsend in offline
| raster maps. I used OSMand a lot on my old phone, buy since I
| downgraded it just could not load the vectors fast enough
| aembleton wrote:
| Give mapy.cz in the play store a try. Seems to be much
| snappier than organic maps. Uses osm data
| xigoi wrote:
| But it's proprietary, and built by a company which loves
| tracking.
| [deleted]
| DenisM wrote:
| >back then it wasn't clear that we'd ever be able to have maps
| at our fingertips regardless of internet access. This was back
| in the era of that poor CNET reporter that got lost with his
| family in the mountains precisely because of no maps
|
| That was 2007. I had maps of the entire US loaded on my pocket
| pc circa 2005.
|
| Edit: that was "Mapopolis" in my case. There were plenty more:
| https://wiki.geocaching.com.au/wiki/GPS_software_-_Pocket_PC
| brightlancer wrote:
| > I had maps of the entire US loaded on my pocket pc circa
| 2005.
|
| How much did that cost? How many folks had it? When did it
| stop getting updates?
|
| Most folks (likely including GP) didn't have easy access to
| offline electronic maps in their pocket in 2007 and didn't
| know anyone who had offline electronic maps in their pocket.
|
| Does that make them stupid?
| DenisM wrote:
| > How much did that cost?
|
| $100 for the maps, available to anyone with a pocket pc and
| access to Google.
| sgath92 wrote:
| 2008 I had a totally offline map of all of North America in
| my car's aftermarket radio (7" touch screen, AM/FM, DVD
| player, GPS, analog TV, SD slot, all running a version of
| WindowsCE that was already outdatted). System cost me about
| $400. Bought it so I could do backroads road
| trips/exploring by car, as it didn't need (or even have) a
| way to connect to the 'net to do it. I can still get
| updated maps for it, but I don't bother.
|
| Handheld gps's with offline maps go back even further. I
| was using them from '03 to '08. Garmin made a bunch of ones
| that were no bigger than a early-gen blackberry. Back then
| it was relatively easy to get pirated updated maps for
| them.
| tguvot wrote:
| i traveled across europe in car at same time frame with
| pocket pc (asus mypal) and igo maps loaded on it (still have
| it in my drawer). those days you can get igo offline maps on
| android. also sygic.
|
| it was always strange that google maps was accepted as some
| kind of magic while turn by turn navigation with voice
| directions was available from mid 2000s
|
| nowdays i always have sygic installed on my phone. came handy
| when google maps decided to freak out while i was driving
| through death valley to gas station.
| tomcam wrote:
| > turn by turn navigation with voice directions was
| available from mid 2000s
|
| Did those turn by turn systems allow you to just drag the
| map onscreen anywhere to change location to anyplace on
| earth? To drop pins and send links to anyone in an email?
| To be updated instantly and for free when the data was
| refreshed?
| tguvot wrote:
| >Did those turn by turn systems allow you to just drag
| the map onscreen anywhere to change location to anyplace
| on earth?
|
| as long as you had maps installed for this area - yes
|
| >To drop pins and send links to anyone in an email?
|
| yea. multi-point navigation with ability to search along
| the route/in the area/specific city/etc. all without
| breaking route. you could also save route iirc. i had 2
| weeks road trip pre-planned.
|
| there was some ability to share route/coordinates. don't
| remember details
|
| > To be updated instantly and for free when the data was
| refreshed?
|
| back than maps weren't updated that frequently. in
| general.
|
| on the other side, it gave you ability to go anywhere
| without having a data connection. google offline maps are
| still very limited. igo was showing on screen next two
| maneuvers back than. google still didn't figure it out.
| or ability to show real 3D landscape and 3D
| landmarks/buildings. or ability to mark street as blocked
| so navigation will route around. getting traffic
| information from radio in case there is no internet.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >We could've had a world where companies couldn't do anything
| about people using their ideas
|
| doesn't sound like the best idea depending on what industry we
| are talking about. medicine, yes. Art, no (we're kinda going
| through that right now actually).
|
| >In some sense cp is the ultimate test of anonymity, since
| you'll be thrown in prison pretty much instantly if caught. So
| perhaps it's no surprise that it's the most common and
| pervasive result of anonymity, but it sure is a shame.
|
| This quote constantly rings in my head about topics like this:
|
| >The moral of the story is: if you're against witch-hunts, and
| you promise to found your own little utopian community where
| witch-hunts will never happen, your new society will end up
| consisting of approximately three principled civil libertarians
| and seven zillion witches. It will be a terrible place to live
| _even if witch-hunts are genuinely wrong._
|
| It's the real downside of apathy when you see complaints about
| those big sites out there and how they screw up. You
| advertising a new site means the most interested are going to
| mostly include the worst actors, who eventually put off the
| best actors. Or at least disproportionately include them.
|
| As a simple example: say Twitter has 10 million users and 1000
| nazis (utopic, I know). Now your new no BS alternative attracts
| 0.1% of users but 10% Nazis. Still far from a majority. But by
| the way these forums work, your site will be 1% nazis, and
| those nazis will be some of your loudest actors if left
| unchecked. 100x more concentrated and it will feel some 1000x
| more nazi.
| jmkni wrote:
| > he spent a lot of time downloading maps and trying to make a
| way to view them locally
|
| Isn't that, like, a map? lol we've had maps long before the
| internet
| zo1 wrote:
| Have you tried to buy a paper map lately? It's next to
| impossible, at least here where I am atm.
| toby- wrote:
| Where are you that it's "next to impossible"? That really
| surprises me.
|
| I'm in the UK, and you can walk into any Post Office,
| WHSmith, bookshop, most newsagents, etc., and pick up maps
| of the local area or country, usually Ordnance Survey[0]
| maps.
|
| And (at least when I was in secondary school, about a
| decade ago) map reading was still taught as a valuable
| skill, using OS maps.
|
| [0]: https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk
| delecti wrote:
| One of the big benefits of digital maps over paper ones is
| "where am I on the map", and GPS alone doesn't send any data
| back.
| vel0city wrote:
| Even then there were lots of apps out there which provided
| maps offline before Google maps was even an idea.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Streets_%26_Trips
|
| https://winworldpc.com/product/softkey-key-master-maps/10
|
| And then that's also completely ignoring the hundreds of
| portable GPS devices sold before Google Maps was a thing
| which had offline road databases.
|
| I can navigate anonymously without cell signal easily. My car
| has a GPS in the dashboard which, at least for the maps and
| routing, doesn't go online at all.
| patrakov wrote:
| > I can navigate anonymously without cell signal easily. My
| car has a GPS in the dashboard which, at least for the maps
| and routing, doesn't go online at all.
|
| I agree that this is indeed possible. The problem is with
| the propaganda that says that you should not agree to such
| a low standard of only being able to see the map and route
| your trip based on road connectivity and nothing else.
| Modern route planning takes into account inherently real-
| time information such as accidents and other roadblocks,
| which is only available online.
| nobody9999 wrote:
| >I agree that this is indeed possible. The problem is
| with the propaganda that says that you should not agree
| to such a low standard of only being able to see the map
| and route your trip based on road connectivity and
| nothing else. Modern route planning takes into account
| inherently real-time information such as accidents and
| other roadblocks, which is only available online.
|
| I'd note that while real time traffic updates are nice,
| they are just a convenience, not a necessity.
|
| In fact, GPS (unless you're in a war zone and need to
| direct munitions or out in the middle of nowhere) is
| _also_ a convenience and not a necessity. What 's that?
| It is a necessity? Tell that to Ferdinand Magellan --
| hell he didn't even have a paper map.
|
| That's not to say GPS/online traffic updates and the like
| aren't useful. They absolutely are. But they aren't
| necessary and at least for me, if the choice is to use
| such tools and be tracked or use another method that
| doesn't track me, I'll choose the latter every. single.
| time.
|
| Not because I have anything to hide, but because _my
| business is my business and no one else 's_.
| andybak wrote:
| Paper gets heavy real quick and personal microfiche readers
| never caught on.
| freehorse wrote:
| At least paper does not run out of battery, though
| itronitron wrote:
| I imagine it's really hard to drive a car and use a
| microfiche reader at the same time.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| The Electro Gyrocator essentially worked that way. You
| placed transparencies over the CRT for the map section
| you were currently in.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro_Gyrocator
|
| https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features/ph-origins-
| navi...
| yankput wrote:
| It was bullshit from the start
| charlieyu1 wrote:
| Do jurisdictions really care about child porn before internet?
| I always feel like it is just a convenient excuse for them to
| get away with their bullshit, for a largely non-existent
| problem.
| Analemma_ wrote:
| They did, but it only existed on small scales then. The
| Internet drove the cost of production and distribution down
| to basically zero, so, as classical economics predicts, the
| amount of production exploded.
| brightlancer wrote:
| > The Internet drove the cost of production and
| distribution down to basically zero, so, as classical
| economics predicts, the amount of production exploded.
|
| No, economics predicts that _use_ will explode if the cost
| is zero, but that's not a comment on production.
|
| Pocket cameras have reduced the cost to record sexual
| abuse, but that's dwarfed by the ability to reproduce/
| distribute those copies.
|
| I don't think that means sexual abuse is more common. On
| every other metric we have, it appears sexual abuse is
| _less_ common.
| pessimizer wrote:
| No, they didn't. They still don't. Not having a victim on the
| other side of the case (possession of child porn, not
| production of child porn) gives judges an easy excuse (and no
| opposition) to sympathizing with the accused and suspending
| the sentence.
|
| Child porn is just leverage to pry. We used to care as much
| about sending information about birth control through the
| mail. And with the modern movement to sexualize children as
| soon as possible, they might have to use another excuse in 20
| years. "Terrorism" will always work, because it doesn't mean
| anything.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| I believe this is the case, as unfortunate as it is.
|
| The loudness of their voices in "protecting the children"
| when politicians are introducing new communications
| surveillance measures, with no mention of local, boots-on-
| the-ground, child protection services funding increases,
| just screams to me that they care about surveillance a lot
| and about protecting children not at all.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| > It's a damn shame how the original cyberpunk dream played
| out. We could've had a world where companies couldn't do
| anything about people using their ideas. Instead we get one
| where you can't even be anonymous without rubbing elbows with
| child predators.
|
| Corporate government is pretty much a staple of. all cyberpunk
| franchises though.
| EGreg wrote:
| Maybe open source generative AI can help solve cp. Cater to
| all these pedophile fetishes, and no need to exploit
| children? Remember how we phased out ivory for piano keys,
| and other poaching?
|
| With diamonds, there is still a push to source "the real
| thing" kept alive by De Beers, and other cartels like that.
| But for a lot of poaching, we found replacements. I think
| that's how plastic got started too btw!
|
| Also PETA has approved fake lab-grown meat, perhaps it can
| reduce demand for torturing so many animals in factory farms.
|
| PS: Japan has a culture of infantile hentai or something in
| its animation - which may alleviate a lot of demand for
| actual cp -- how much cp is in Japan? (There seems to be a
| lot of unusual/unnatural sexual norms in Japan... from
| Hikkikomori to dating vending machines to total celibacy for
| a large proportion of the population.)
| https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/may/11/japan-child-
| po...
| localplume wrote:
| [dead]
| haakon wrote:
| Generated CSAM is equally illegal as "real" CSAM in many
| countries, such as Norway. Here, even fictional
| descriptions of such material in written form is illegal.
| ChainOfFools wrote:
| this is possibly because generated CSAM may look like no
| real human child nor resemble any human child in
| particular _today._ give it 5 years and physical
| distinction from real children and even a specific child
| is likely to happen. so a photo perfect likeness of your
| kid ends up in some disgusting video and the creators get
| off the hook because it 's 'not real' by say a narrow
| color gradiation or kinematic similarity standard
| undetectable to human eyes? no thanks.
| dotnet00 wrote:
| That isn't really much of an issue, some places count
| material intended to resemble a real child or derived
| from CSAM (etc a drawing referenced from real CSAM) as
| still being illegal. That would handily cover the
| situation you've mentioned.
|
| In those cases, for fictional CSAM to be legal, it has to
| be completely fictional such that any resemblances can be
| shown to be completely coincidence.
| anthk wrote:
| Even Lolita from Nabokov? Because that book depicted that
| as joking about the reader and on male society in
| general, as there was no actual erotism on anything but
| the narrator's "mind"/protagonist.
|
| Similar on how people got Starship Troopers wrong. Is not
| about _cheering_ fascism, but to ridicule it.
| haakon wrote:
| Lolita is covered by an exception for art. I doubt such a
| book could be written in Norway today, but you can't
| really ban historical literature.
| cooldrcool3 wrote:
| Have you actually read Starship Troopers? It isn't
| exactly ridiculing facism.
| jowea wrote:
| I believe he is referring to the more widely known movie.
| brightlancer wrote:
| In both the book and the film Starship Troopers:
|
| * persons can choose whether or not to do government
| service
|
| * Rico's parents are quite rich even though neither are
| citizens
|
| * the Moral Philosophy class tries to _discourage_
| individuals from government service
|
| * the instructor for Moral Philosophy explicitly tries to
| get the students to think for themselves
|
| In the book but not the film:
|
| * the only benefit of government service is the right to
| vote
|
| * only veterans (i.e. no active service members) can vote
|
| All of these (and more) are contrary to fascism. The book
| is not fascist. Verhoeven never read the book and didn't
| satirize fascism -- he satirized a _caricature_ of
| fascism.
| RajT88 wrote:
| > Similar on how people got Starship Troopers wrong. Is
| not about cheering fascism, but to ridicule it.
|
| Well - the film also had a disconnect with the book on
| the topic of fascism. The book was more on the pro-
| fascism side.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| The film intentionally satirized the book.
| treis wrote:
| I still can't decide if it was just a bad movie or satire
| by someone that didn't quite get how satire works.
| Eisenstein wrote:
| It was satire by someone who _absolutely_ understands how
| satire works. Starship Troopers, the film, is brilliant.
|
| The same director did Robocop, and if you don't get the
| genius satire of that, then I can't help you.
| RajT88 wrote:
| In fairness, those films can be enjoyed both
| superficially and as satire.
| throw0101a wrote:
| > _Maybe open source generative AI can help solve cp. Cater
| to all these pedophile fetishes, and no need to exploit
| children?_
|
| Illegal in Canada (even animated/cartoons):
|
| * https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/man-facing-child-porn-charges-
| aft...
|
| Edit: fictional material seems to be illegal in quite a lot
| of countries:
|
| *
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_child_pornography
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_p
| orn...
| tekla wrote:
| CP is disgusting and everything, but I'm kinda weirded
| out about thought crime. If no harm is being done, not
| even indirectly to anyone else, why is it a crime?
|
| It's not illegal to write a fanfic that you keep to
| yourself about all the weird ways that you want to
| torture and kill someone.
| throw0101a wrote:
| It is not without debate:
|
| * https://digitalcommons.schulichlaw.dal.ca/djls/vol25/is
| s1/2/
|
| And as my updated/edited comment mention, Canada is not
| unique in this regard:
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_child_pornogr
| aphy
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional
| _porn...
|
| Going back to Canada, some cases:
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in
| _Cana...
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Sharpe
|
| Perhaps the thinking is that it could create a positive
| feedback loop that may help the desires grow to the point
| 'actual' action is taken.
| tekla wrote:
| I'm sort of confused by these rulings. So people got
| convicted for possessing loli manga/similar stuff that
| has no relation to real life at all.
|
| I understand that it can be illegal at the State level,
| and that its a grey area at the federal level. What I
| don't get is the disconnect between these rulings and
| whatever is available on the clearnet.
|
| We're not talking onion sites. Reddit, Twitter, 4chan,
| pixv, tumblr, Patreon whatever sites that you can just go
| to that shows up the front page of Google. They all
| contain similar content and almost none of it is taken
| down for illegality, at most because someone thought it
| was too ick and Ad money, or posted in a non-r18 area.
|
| Even fucking 4chan is incredibly strict about ban
| hammering/deleting anything that is close to CP
|
| Genshin Impact and Blue Archive are not popular because
| they are good games.
| [deleted]
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >They all contain similar content and almost none of it
| is taken down for illegality, at most because someone
| thought it was too ick and Ad money, or posted in a
| non-r18 area.
|
| Simple, the internet is huge and some currently contended
| US law means that (past illegal content) a web host isn't
| responsible for content users upload. Copyright means
| that corporations can DMCA certain content off, but
| otherwise, there's not much to do. Companies don't WANT
| to have to look through every single post on a site that
| big, so if they can automate or simply ignore it, they
| will.
|
| The legality in Canada is questionable, but Canada isn't
| looking through Reddit with a fine tooth comb (P.S. it
| technically is against reddit TOS to upload lol manga
| stuff. But it's hard to enforce on small subreddits).
| Canada may not even know what Pixiv is, and Patreon is
| often behind paywalls. It would just take a good (well,
| bad) mainstream awareness to answer your question, and
| the answer would turn out to mostly be "because
| politicians didn't know until CNN/Fox News blasted it".
|
| That much was obvious during the U.S. controversy on
| Rapelay, a Japanese 3d eroge simulator that was not even
| sold in the US (nor ever has been), simply mislabeled by
| Amazon and visible in American's store for a while.
|
| >Genshin Impact and Blue Archive are not popular because
| they are good games.
|
| well we're getting very off topic but this is still an
| odd angle. There's no one reason why these games are
| popular and talking about fan art vs. game quality is
| arguing a chicken vs. the egg. Let's just agree that fan
| engagement in this day and age can be a force multiplier
| in terms of advertising something and spreading the
| brand. But 10,000 x 0 is still zero. Just ask how F-Zero
| is doing.
| stevenwoo wrote:
| Slight correction: it's now every Americans' first
| amendment right to send that fanfic to the subject after
| Counterman vs Colorado.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >It's not illegal to write a fanfic that you keep to
| yourself about all the weird ways that you want to
| torture and kill someone.
|
| pedantic, but it depends on many factors that can make
| that goal realistic. You probably wouldn't get flack
| about how you'd kill Trump or any public figure you're
| far away from, but some specific individual can be seen
| as a threat in some countries. Even the US isn't fully
| lenient on that.
|
| >If no harm is being done, not even indirectly to anyone
| else, why is it a crime?
|
| politics, mostly. For example, in Japan uncensored
| genetalia is still illegal, animated or otherwise.
| Despite some of the most explicit pornography hailing
| from it. These come from WW2 times where the US imposed a
| bunch of sanctions, but have long since been irrelevant.
| So why not just repeal that law?
|
| Well, what politician wants to be the one to fall on that
| sword and get the buck rolling? It's political suicide to
| the voter base (mostly older people) even if most people
| wouldn't be strongly affected by it. That's one among
| many many other factors, of course.
|
| And that's a relatively uncontroversial aspect of
| society. Can you imagine trying to go to bat about the
| above topic?
| EGreg wrote:
| Well, if actual harm to people and children is what we
| want to reduce, then perhaps decriminalizing an innocuous
| (as in no victims) form of it may actually reduce the
| harm to actual people.
|
| Just like the cases for decriminalizing prostitution and
| drugs: https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-
| decriminalizatio...
|
| And btw -- it's not just about thoughtcrime, it's a major
| double standard, seems to me. In the West it's perfectly
| normal for Hollywood to put out "Rated R" horror movies
| that feature gore and torture, ripping off limbs, mass
| murders, etc. Such as the movie "Hostel". I never
| understood why that is OK, why the music industry has
| pushed gangsta rap etc. for decades, but then something
| like Cuties out of France which actually _critiques_ the
| hypersexualization of teenage girls that is taking place,
| causes an uproar, while the industries doing the
| hypersexualization are now an accepted part of our
| liberal "freedom of speech".
| singpolyma3 wrote:
| Cuties controversy was only about some versions of the
| poster, and no one involved saw the movie. No one who
| watched the movie thought it was super controversial I
| think.
| EGreg wrote:
| https://www.parentstv.org/blog/how-does-a-film-critic-
| justif...
|
| These guys did:
|
| _As for Netflix, how can the company possibly reconcile
| a "coming-of-age" film, and one that centers entirely on
| 11-year-old girls, with a TV-MA rating? This is not a
| random decision - it has become corporate practice.
|
| We have frequently called on Netflix to stop hosting
| content that sexualizes children, such as Baby, Big
| Mouth, Sex Education, or that glamorizes rape and sexual
| assault such as 365 Days.
|
| And Netflix habitually markets adult content to young
| audiences. Parents Television Council research of Netflix
| programming designated as "Teen" reveals that nearly half
| was rated either TV-MA (104 titles, or 40.8%) or R (23
| titles, or 9.0%); and every single program that carried a
| TV-14 moniker included harsh profanities.
|
| While we may not always see eye-to-eye with film critics,
| the criticism of the critics is telling. Cuties is not
| the first time Netflix has blatantly promoted programming
| that sexualizes children, but we're calling on them for
| this to be the last._
| Tao3300 wrote:
| Did they watch it? I don't see anywhere where they said
| they actually watched it.
| brightlancer wrote:
| > Cuties controversy was only about some versions of the
| poster,
|
| False.
|
| The final performance by the young girls was also
| discussed. You can find it if you want to watch something
| disgusting, but it was very sexual and OBVIOUSLY
| inappropriate for children.
|
| That it's common to see children perform such sexual
| routines at dance competitions doesn't mean it's
| appropriate.
|
| The idea that this was Only The Poster was a lie created
| by a media that thinks child exploitation is OK. Look at
| the media response to the film "Sound of Freedom", where
| it's "QAnon adjacent" to oppose child sex trafficking.
| brightlancer wrote:
| Legalized drug sales and prostitution among adults have
| _fewer_ victims but that doesn't mean no victims.
| Legalization is better but it isn't a panacea.
|
| > Such as the movie "Hostel". I never understood why that
| is OK, why the music industry has pushed gangsta rap etc.
| for decades, but then something like Cuties out of France
| which actually critiques the hypersexualization of
| teenage girls that is taking place, causes an uproar,
| while the industries doing the hypersexualization are now
| an accepted part of our liberal "freedom of speech".
|
| AFAIK, everyone involved in the production of "Hostel"
| was a legal adult.
|
| The girls who were the main characters in "Cuties" were
| not legal adults, nor anywhere close. I don't even think
| they were teenagers. From the clip I saw, it wasn't a
| _critique_ of hypersexualization so much as LITERAL
| HYPERSEXUALIZATION. There may have been an ironic plot
| around it saying "this is bad mmm'kay" but that doesn't
| excuse using children to engage in sexualized behavior.
|
| There's an important conversation to be had about US
| culture and violence versus sex and language (South Park
| parodied this well), but "Cuties" is a horrible example
| because it used actual children to engage in actual
| sexual objectification.
| xigoi wrote:
| The issue has become so emotionalized that if you say
| anything that even remotely looks like supporting
| pedophilia, people will tell you to go kill yourself.
| pessimizer wrote:
| They'll do that if you criticize the Barbie movie, or
| fail to.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Barbie has always been strangely entwined in the
| political atmosphere, funnily enough. You become an
| iconic kids toy and it's inevitable.
| Tao3300 wrote:
| It seems there's nothing worse than a moderate these
| days. One extreme thinks I must be a Satanist for not
| believing in the massive conspiracy to harvest
| adrenochrome from tortured children, while the other
| extreme thinks I must be a Nazi for not believing in a
| trans genocide.
| marvin wrote:
| Even written, where I live. In principle even the author
| only wrote it for themselves, and no one ever knows.
| That's pretty close to thoughtcrime.
| [deleted]
| tenpies wrote:
| > generative AI can help solve cp
|
| On a side note, there was a very good film about this last
| year called _The Artifice Girl_.
|
| Think indie, very theatrical with only three settings and
| three very clear acts, but thought-provoking and with some
| unstated implications. I would recommend watching it
| without checking IMDB or any review site first.
| noAnswer wrote:
| > Ultimately what drove me away was the literal flood of cp
| that was always right next to anything to do with tor, whonix,
| or anonymity in general.
|
| As a teen around 2003 I hosted a freenet-node
| (freenetproject.org). It generated 1TByte/month which I believe
| was a lot for the time. I shot it down and never came back,
| because the only things that ever loaded was cp and Chechnya
| rape and torture videos. Its not a network for "dissidents"...
| I gave up on humanity.
| sanderjd wrote:
| Humanity is mostly good, it just isn't universally good.
| Providing services that rely on "universally good" to avoid
| being dominated by the tiny but horrible minority is always a
| disaster.
| OfSanguineFire wrote:
| How do you know what was uploaded, let alone that those were
| the only things uploaded? If I remember Freenet's model
| correctly, files were distributed across the network as
| encrypted fragments and no one knew what exactly was being
| shared on his own node.
| noAnswer wrote:
| (I was a curious teenager and followed links I shouldn't
| have.) It had a ~1998 web feel. So you would mostly
| discover things by surfing around. Normal content would
| take ages to load or didn't load at all. (Bad distribution,
| because no-one had interest in it.) While the other stuff
| would load faster than AmpLand. (Very good distribution,
| because lots of demand.)
|
| Plus: There was a eDonkey like file sharing program that
| worked on top of freenet. (As well as a Usenet clone and a
| "Instant" Messenger.) You could share files without
| uploading them first. Like Gnutella it had passive search.
| (It shows you the files and search terms of other users
| going through your system.) So you could see what the
| demand was for. Edit: The demand was not for Hollywod
| movies.
| Sterm wrote:
| There is no such thing as running a relay in freenet.
| Every user is the same as every other. The size and
| traffic of your node is literally a setting on the gui.
| All traffic and data are encrypted so you have no idea
| what's living on your node and what's coming in and out.
| That's the whole point of freenet.
| orangepurple wrote:
| Run a DC++ client connected to some major hubs and snoop on
| the queries that people search for and you will lose all
| hope for humanity.
| OfSanguineFire wrote:
| People definitely search for awful stuff, but that
| doesn't mean that such stuff is the only thing shared on
| DC++. It is films and music that draws so many people to
| DC++.
| [deleted]
| geraldwhen wrote:
| 20 years ago, DC++ was the best place to get full anime
| seasons with fan subs. Nowadays, nearly everything is on
| Hulu, or crunchyroll, or illegitimate streaming sites.
| MayeulC wrote:
| I'm just wondering if some of this could be automated
| scans (possibly by law enforcement?)
| jowea wrote:
| It's the same thing with the old reddit alternatives. Very
| few people are actually going to bother purely for the sake
| of principles, so the alternatives end up flooded with the
| ones that are forced to alternatives for good reasons.
|
| If the mainstream Internet banned "dissidents" I believe such
| things would have more uptake by other types of users.
| Euphorbium wrote:
| But google maps provide offline maps, and have done it for
| years. You just have to save them in advance.
| linsomniac wrote:
| My BIL used to work CP with the DHS, a tech going in heavy with
| the first wave to secure devices.
|
| I asked him if he had ever run into Tor exits, he said no, but
| they did sometimes run into people with unsecured wireless that
| had been used by third parties and once it was clear that was
| what happened it was pretty much dropped. I'm sure they would
| have ways to deal with people leaving their WiFi open as a way of
| camouflaging their activities...
|
| He also said that one thing they're usually do if there are
| multiple people in the house is sit them all down on the couch
| and say "We are here because someone has been downloading CP",
| and often everyone would turn and look at one person.
| optimalsolver wrote:
| >and often everyone would turn and look at one person
|
| Slowly, like in sitcoms and cartoons?
| insickness wrote:
| >everyone would turn and look at one person
|
| So the person everyone thinks would do it is pronounced guilty.
| I don't see any way that could go horribly wrong.
| toby- wrote:
| It at least gives you an idea of where might be fruitful to
| begin your investigation...
| linsomniac wrote:
| That's likely the starting place for the investigation, not
| the end.
| nitwit005 wrote:
| > and often everyone would turn and look at one person.
|
| Probably falsely assuming it's the 12 year old son instead of
| the 35 year old father.
| alexeldeib wrote:
| This sounds far more like a roommate situation than a semi-
| nuclear family. Still applies, albeit less so. Not like looks
| are real evidence, but it points them the right direction.
| throw0101a wrote:
| > _I asked him if he had ever run into Tor exits, he said no,
| but they did sometimes run into people with unsecured wireless
| that had been used by third parties and once it was clear that
| was what happened it was pretty much dropped._
|
| Could one have open Wifi "accidentally" (on purpose) as a
| defence mechanism against one's own actions to introduce
| reasonable doubt?
|
| Bruce Schneier in 2008:
|
| *
| https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/my_open_wirel...
| grepfru_it wrote:
| Yes, but it is a very weak defense that can be smashed e.g.
| your device is seen communicating with the BSSID of the
| closed wifi, or your mac address (open wifi) is seen
| communicating with surveilled target.
|
| Maybe in 2008 this was plausible, but it was also plausible
| to disguise one's self and walk to mcdonald's free wifi with
| a burner wifi card and/or Kali Linux. With the proliferation
| of surveillance devices everywhere it becomes an uphill
| battle
| krabizzwainch wrote:
| In college I used this excuse when my apartment buildings
| self managed wifi cut off my internet for torrenting. I
| just went into the office and was like "a torrent? Idk what
| that is...". But it wasn't anything more official than a
| guy in my apartment's office's ability to turn my internet
| back on. I didn't even have to prove I had an open Wi-Fi
| network.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| How often do they raid a residence and find nothing?
| RyanAdamas wrote:
| I was always standoffish of Freenet for this kind of reason.
| rolph wrote:
| i think this was more than CP.
|
| "What do you do now?
|
| I left Austria and now work for a German company in IT, and have
| a data center in Kosovo... hosting grey area things there. Warez
| primarily.
|
| Also, I do want to add that I have more backstory. The CP was not
| the only reason for the raid.
|
| What do you mean?
|
| Someone used the same exit to hack a NATO facility in Poland,
| which deals with chemical and biological weapons. Disarming, etc.
|
| The US tried to extradite me from Croatia in 2017, with not much
| more info than national security.
|
| They lost their case as I am married to a local and cannot be
| extradited outside the EU."
| praptak wrote:
| Common knowledge from when Tor just started was to limit your
| exit traffic to countries which cannot extradite you. And
| definitely block your own country.
| Sporktacular wrote:
| So he as guns in his bedroom and 3 more guns in his safe along
| with a machete (all apparently legal). Not in Mollenbeek or
| northeastern Paris, but near Graz.
|
| Just your typical guy then.
|
| Running TOR exits are a noble thing to do but people like this
| damage TOR's reputation.
|
| And while there doesn't seem to be proof he intentionally got
| involved in CP, a smart pedophile probably would set up an exit
| node just for plausible deniability.
| hackinthebochs wrote:
| Anyone actually viewing CP would likely have traces of it on
| their computer. Just running an exit node isn't going to save
| you.
| Sporktacular wrote:
| I'd imagine someone that savvy is familiar with encrypted VMs
| etc. or maybe just hiding their computer.
| teddyh wrote:
| " _The law was changed a few weeks later to include private
| persons and sole traders as protected lsps, not just companies,
| but they had to convict me._ "
| zer8k wrote:
| > If convicted, this could land me in jail for 6 to 10 years.
|
| The 6 to 10 years is the least of his worries. The guy will be
| labeled a chomo and probably killed as a result. All for
| running a Tor exit node. What a time to be alive.
| cge wrote:
| This case was in Austria, not the US, and was quite some time
| ago (early 2010s). He was charged under a law criminalizing
| "support of general distribution", not possession. He was
| sentenced to probation, and left the country.
| pfannkuchen wrote:
| I've never seen the term chomo before and I'm curious about
| its origin. Is it "homo" but with 'c' for child tacked on the
| front, or is it Spanish? Or something else, like a
| portmanteau of child molester?
| zer8k wrote:
| The way I learned it is that it is a portmanteau of child
| molester. The extra "o" in the middle is used because
| "chmo" is hard to pronounce.
| gmiller123456 wrote:
| "Chimo" would make more sense in that case, so that's
| probably not the origin of it.
| jadamson wrote:
| Yeah, I can't imagine anyone wanting slang to rhyme.
| bigbillheck wrote:
| Maybe English does have a little bit of vowel harmony
| after all.
| ziml77 wrote:
| Would you also argue that mofo can't derive from
| motherfucker because that would be mofu?
| omeysalvi wrote:
| Yes, the latter
| evronm wrote:
| It's short for "child molester," and happens to sound a lot
| like "homo." Very common term in prison.
| darkclouds wrote:
| And innuendo and deniability is just as common a past
| time.
|
| The UK's Carry On films and other TV programs like the
| BBC Are you being served tv sitcom were heavily into
| innuendo, in as much a way as some jokes in Disney Pixar
| films fly over the head's of kids, but is understood by
| most adults perfectly well.
|
| Not only is it a way to quantify peoples mental abilities
| by whether they laugh in a cinema watched by a secret
| camera and AI or whether documented on social media, or
| listened into by our phones and then adverts, its also an
| in plain site way for some people in society to identify
| people for exploitation and manipulation, just like
| teenagers are dedicated followers of fashion.
|
| Its quite interesting really, just like the changes in
| slang language is a stealth form of working out the age
| of someone typing online, by the use of their vocabulary
| and interests. In some respects humans are just lemmings
| and very people actually come up with original content,
| not that the original content is necessarily any good.
|
| But mainstream trends happen for a reason, in much the
| same way as you wont really see anything go viral like
| they used to on the internet in the early 00's.
|
| Peoples reactions whether culturally or legally correct
| or not are also telling.
|
| Its all psychological and biological mind games, because
| histidine and carnosine as two amino acids, which could
| get alot of males into trouble if they are not careful!
|
| I found the recent ambulance strikes in the UK quite
| telling, they would attend cat 1 or level 1 people who
| basically had an over active immune system ie allergic
| reactions, but refused to attend to cat 2 or level 2
| people who had an under active immune system which groups
| the elderly into that group automatically. In other words
| the recent UK ambulance strikes were a stealth form of
| eugenics on the elderly, but most of the british
| population wouldnt have known this.
|
| And that is my point, there is alot more going on that
| meets the eye, but if Freud was right, what does that
| make many parents?
| icecreamtoilet wrote:
| It stands for child molester. The other term you hear all
| the time inside is "weird" or "weirdo." There are others,
| diaper sniper, skinner ("skin bief"). You generally won't
| get killed though. People like to say that but in fed low,
| where all the cp stuff goes, they're all protected and
| they'll ship you out if you get caught hurting them. And
| they WILL tell.
| hattmall wrote:
| Child porn, probably not getting killed but actual child
| molesters is pretty common.
| Ccecil wrote:
| "Moes" for short also.
| midasuni wrote:
| In the U.K. they tend to be called nonces
|
| Always weird when you stumble into an encryption
| conversation
| delecti wrote:
| A former coworker started a startup, and very nearly used
| it in the name until he was informed of how the UK views
| the word.
| mptest wrote:
| How did nonce get that meaning in the uk? I've always
| known nonce to be a single use number
| rolph wrote:
| something like:
|
| Not Observing Normal Community Exercise
| delecti wrote:
| Seems it's unclear
| https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nonce#Etymology_2
|
| > 1975. Unknown, derived from British criminal slang.
| Several origins have been proposed; possibly derived from
| dialectal nonce, nonse ("stupid, worthless individual")
| (but this cannot be shown to predate nonce "child-
| molester" and is likely a toned-down usage of the same
| insult), or Nance, nance ("effeminate man, homosexual"),
| from nancy or nancyboy. The rhyme with ponce has also
| been noted.
|
| > As prison slang also said to be an acronym for "Not On
| Normal Communal Exercise" (Stevens 2012), but this is
| likely a backronym.
| someweirdperson wrote:
| > The other term you hear all the time inside is "weird"
| or "weirdo."
|
| I'll have to request a user name change I guess.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| I remember it because SNL had a skit where The Rock
| invented a "robo chomo"[0]. Given that SNL used it, I
| thought it was a pretty mainstream term.
|
| [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NgUhEs1R4
| pessimizer wrote:
| > probably killed as a result
|
| This is a violent fantasy. I'd estimate that 99.9% of child
| molesters who go to prison walk out alive and relatively
| uninjured.
| tamimio wrote:
| It wasn't in the US, and it was for him either 3 months jail
| or probation for some years, he was also able to leave Europe
| completely, most likely because they know he had nothing to
| do with it but per the article there was no plea.
| kedean wrote:
| On the other hand, his picture and actual name appear in
| articles like this one that will show up in a background
| search.
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