[HN Gopher] Space junk: India says object found in Australia is ... ___________________________________________________________________ Space junk: India says object found in Australia is theirs Author : vinni2 Score : 63 points Date : 2023-07-31 14:40 UTC (8 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com) | Scofield67 wrote: | [flagged] | samstave wrote: | Whelp, there is historical precedence ; | | " _Britain says everything found in every country they took from | is Britains_ " | | So... | gdsdfe wrote: | a space archaeologist ... well that's the first time, I hear such | thing exists | kazinator wrote: | "Dude, it doesn't take a rocket paleontologist to figure out | that ... " | sparkie wrote: | Only takes a redditor to figure it out: https://www.reddit.co | m/r/space/comments/1515q3w/comment/js6w... | dv35z wrote: | You might get a laugh out of this. Cheers. | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I | bell-cot wrote: | > There were initially concerns about potentially dangerous | toxins leaking from the object if it was found to be part of a | rocket. | | From the photo - the object is a cylindrical tank, with a huge | hole in one badly-damaged end of it. It was adrift at sea long | enough for barnacles to be growing over much of its surface. | | IANARS (not a rocket scientist)...but I'd bet that there are | absolutely zero carried-in-tanks-on-rockets toxins which are | barnacle-friendly. Ditto ones which would not have been washed | away in the first hour of the sea water sloshing in & out of that | big hole. And IIR, the intersection of two empty sets is also | empty. | mlindner wrote: | IANARS but I play one on the internet. Depending on exactly | where it came from on the rocket and which rocket it came from | there could be smaller tanks embedded within larger tanks and | fuel lines that are still pressurized behind closed valves. | That wouldn't be known until they confirmed its origin. Finally | the content of what could be pressurized is some pretty toxic | and carcinogenic chemicals like nitrogen tetroxide or | monomethyl hydrazine. | fit2rule wrote: | [dead] | stolen_biscuit wrote: | Yes in hindsight it's obvious the tank is non-harmful, but when | it was a complete mystery it's important to do due diligence to | ensure it is safe. | rozab wrote: | It was positively identified in the reddit thread about half | an hour after it was posted, not sure how the media has | managed to drag the story out for so long | mulmen wrote: | Reddit has been wrong. | orbital-decay wrote: | The tank in the photo looks like the second stage | pressurization tank. If that's the case (I could be wrong), it | carries helium. | hsbauauvhabzb wrote: | > Countries often plan for debris from their launches to land in | oceans to prevent them damaging people and property. | | Is there much thought about the retrieval of these things? It | seems incredibly short sighted just to litter them on the ocean | floor.. | kneebonian wrote: | I'm imaging the rationale is probably that the amount of space | junk ending up in the ocean is far far far less than the amount | of terrestrial junk ending up in the ocean. | | EDIT: | | Not defending the reasoning just saying it's probably what they | used. | hsbauauvhabzb wrote: | Just because most of the windows are smashed, doesn't mean | it's okay to smash a few more. | | Even if it were offset by other marine environment | investment. Hell, create a trust and drop a 10th of the | recover cost in each time so that when recovery is cheaper in | the future, it could be funded by all the compounded money. | JoeAltmaier wrote: | WOrse things: | | https://www.treehugger.com/shipwrecks-could-sink-environment... | srvmshr wrote: | I am puzzled & maybe someone could throw light: | | The canister looks like metal, and isn't airtight anymore. It has | barnacles on one side, which makes it likely it was probably | floating, rather than sitting on the seabed. | | How did it manage to float so long without sinking? It looks | structurally compromised from the photograph. | sawjet wrote: | It is likely that there are smaller, internal pressurant tanks | that are sealed and could keep the craft bouyant | jmholla wrote: | Maybe it was on the seabed and the barnacles were working their | way up when it was brought to shore tumultuously? Or maybe it | was floating and the processes that brought it to shore caused | that damage? | asow92 wrote: | Maybe there's a sequestered, hollowed out part inside keeping | it afloat? | justinclift wrote: | Maybe instead of floating it was half-buried for a while? | nsenifty wrote: | Is it really "space junk" if it was meant to fall back into the | ocean during launch? I thought it meant the junk orbiting earth | and pose a risk of orbital collisions. | JohnFen wrote: | I think it is, yes. Whether or not it was intentionally allowed | to fall back to earth doesn't make refuse suddenly not refuse. | nsenifty wrote: | It is junk, but "space junk" has a very specific meaning [1] | and this is not it. Pretty much all rocket launches have | debris designed to fall back down into ocean, some recovered | and some not. Not only that, but defunct satellites are | intentionally crashed into the ocean and left there [2]. | | There is literally nothing special about this part other than | perhaps it floated and ended up in another country. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris | | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_cemetery | biot wrote: | Much like how "garbage collection" is industry terminology | referring to a specific feature of memory management in | programming languages, "space junk" is also industry | terminology that's specific in its meaning: | | > Space debris (also known as space junk, space pollution, | space waste, space trash, space garbage, or cosmic debris) | are defunct human-made objects in space - principally in | Earth orbit - which no longer serve a useful function. | | Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris | | If it's no longer in space, it's no longer "space junk". | mrlonglong wrote: | Time Australia fined India for littering. NASA paid a fine when | Skylab crashed in the outback years ago. | zapdrive wrote: | It fell in the ocean and drifted towards Australia. So, no, | Australia has no grounds to fault India. Also, isn't it better | to let space junk fall to the oceans then let it drift in space | around Earth for decades? | syndicatedjelly wrote: | Has India been dumping trash in Australia for a long time or | something? | nineteen999 wrote: | Sometimes it runs away, and India sends it back again, and we | are grateful. | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-03/puneet-puneet-in- | custody-in-india-over-2008-hit-run-dean-hofstee/100431778 | | Please don't bring race into this - this person is trash and | their nationality is irrelevant. | [deleted] | robertlagrant wrote: | Who mentioned race? | AverageDude wrote: | There are more like that. | Grimburger wrote: | NASA never paid the fine. On the 30th year anniversary a US | radio show host organised a fund raising and got the money | together to pay the $400 off on behalf of the US government. | ajvsnsdli wrote: | I did not know that was a thing. Though, maybe I am uninformed | but I can't think of both how and why this is a thing. First, a | quick search on ISRO's wiki page it has a handful of launches | every year, and assuming the chances of the rocket debris | landing on a particular country is likely single digits a year | if at all that is, what's the point of a fine, just to make | money? or is it supposed to incentivize countries to invest | into research of rocket debris trajectories? Or perhaps deter | countries from launching rockets? Second, what happens when a | space agency disputes an incident/fine, who is the final | authority? What happens on repeat offenses, steeper fines? What | if the fine is not paid? Is it a problem worth tensions between | nations with sizable bilateral trade? | mminer237 wrote: | They issued a $400 fine as a joke, and NASA never actually | paid it. | | https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/70708/nasas- | unpaid-400-l... | midasuni wrote: | It's the principal. The Skylab fine was $400. | | The idea is that an organisation, no matter how large, | doesn't get to ignore the law. | | Alas nasa didn't even pay the fine, probably some form of | legal reason | mtmail wrote: | The ticket was not serious and the local government never | followed up to collect it. | https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/34928/did- | nasa-... | mrlonglong wrote: | They didn't pay? | thwwwk wrote: | As an American I will consider paying this on behalf of | NASA if someone can tell me how... $400 is worth the | amusement | Someone wrote: | > assuming the chances of the rocket debris landing on a | particular country is likely single digits a year if at all | that is, what's the point of a fine | | It's not likely, but debris may land on top of humans, and | may be large and not only physically, but also chemically | dangerous. | | As to that fine, | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty doesn't | mention that, but does say: | | _"States shall be liable for damage caused by their space | objects"_ ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-07-31 23:00 UTC)