[HN Gopher] FCC allows blocking traffic from robocall-friendly p...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       FCC allows blocking traffic from robocall-friendly provider One Owl
        
       Author : kimi
       Score  : 175 points
       Date   : 2023-08-02 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (docs.fcc.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (docs.fcc.gov)
        
       | jjtheblunt wrote:
       | Wow: the FCC publicly shames the perpetrator including LinkedIn
       | URL of the person. That's new behavior and might actually be a
       | decent deterrent.
       | 
       | ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/aashay-khandelwal-ab6179238 )
        
         | WirelessGigabit wrote:
         | As they should. Companies are run by people. People should be
         | accountable. The CEO is accountable.
        
         | mrandish wrote:
         | I've looked into the history of some of these perps before and
         | I'm always shocked at how many chances they've been given to
         | stop being shady-as-fuck scammers and it's almost like they're
         | addicted to it. So yeah, they deserve whatever the FCC, FTC or
         | whoever is dishing out (and probably much more).
         | 
         | Looking through this docket, these assholes have playing
         | stalling games for _years_ and they STILL aren 't blocked yet.
         | They get at least 14 days to respond, then the FCC has to
         | decide they're still doing it, then it'll take another 30 days
         | for the block to be mandatory.
         | 
         | > _One Owl will have at least 14 days to respond to the Initial
         | Determination Order. Id. SS 64.1200(n)(5)(ii)-(iii). > If One
         | Owl's response to that order is insufficient or One Owl
         | continues to allow substantially similar traffic onto the U.S.
         | network, then the Bureau will publish a Final Determination
         | Order in EB Docket No. 22-174 finding that One Owl is not in
         | compliance with section 64.1200(n)(5). Id. SS
         | 64.1200(n)(5)(iii). > In the event that the Bureau issues a
         | Final Determination Order in this matter, pursuant to section
         | 64.1200(n)(6) of the Commission's Rules, all U.S.-based voice
         | service providers shall be required to block One Owl's traffic.
         | Id. SS 64.1200(n)(6). Providers must monitor EB Docket No.
         | 22-174 and initiate blocking beginning 30 days from the release
         | date of the Final Determination Order._
        
         | dmvdoug wrote:
         | They had the Instagram for one of his accomplices. Awkward.
        
       | stock_toaster wrote:
       | Not just robocall friendly apparently, but a serial offender,
       | with new company names but the same behavior.
       | 
       | ref: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-395670A1.txt
        
       | allanrbo wrote:
       | A little bit off topic, I know, but I love how the FCC is using a
       | plain text file here. No nonsense!
        
         | sgustard wrote:
         | Change the file extension to pdf, there's a pdf version, same
         | for doc.
        
       | Nifty3929 wrote:
       | There could be an unfortunate consequence of this: picking and
       | choosing who's traffic to accept. Telcos generally operate as
       | common carriers, meaning they have to accept traffic from
       | anybody. Obviously, that doesn't seem right when we don't like
       | that traffic. But imagine if telcos could start deciding on their
       | own which businesses they were willing to work with or deliver
       | calls to. What if they could just cut off your business because
       | they don't like what you're selling.
       | 
       | I'm not saying we're on the way there - this doesn't have to be a
       | slippery slope. But it's something to keep in mind.
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | It's high time we start prosecuting cold robocalls as
         | harassment. We don't need to fundamentally change the rules of
         | the system to keep around pests that don't provide a useful or
         | necessary service.
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | How is this even relevant? This is specifically the FCC making
         | the determination that One Owl sucks, not other telecoms.
        
         | cirrus3 wrote:
         | That's why the FCC is there isn't it? I don't see how this
         | leads to telcos making that choice on their own
        
         | babypuncher wrote:
         | You're right, which is why they needed the FCC to step in and
         | explicitly allow Telcos to block this specific bad actor. The
         | FCC exists to ensure all the Telcos play fairly, so it's up to
         | them when actions like this are allowed to be taken.
        
       | irl_chad wrote:
       | How often does the FCC allow blocking traffic?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | lesuorac wrote:
         | Apparently a few times a year starting from 2021.
         | 
         | https://www.fcc.gov/robocall-facilitators-must-cease-and-des...
        
       | jjoonathan wrote:
       | Years ago I heard that SHAKEN/STIR were being implemented and
       | would allow robocall blocking. I still get tons of robocalls.
       | I've had this explained as "SHAKEN/STIR were the crypto that will
       | eventually allow blocking, but the blocking will happen later."
       | Is it later? Is this the start of the actual blocking?
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I get calls nowadays with caller id telemarketer or suspected
         | spam or similar, is this what it does?
        
           | chaorace wrote:
           | A little yes, a little no. Your phone knows when it's
           | receiving a call from an unauthenticated number, but it would
           | be very unreliable to use this metric alone to decide when a
           | call is untrustworthy. My understanding is that carrier
           | telemetry is what drives the final yes/no verdict.
        
         | i_am_jl wrote:
         | It has started. SHAKEN/STIR are what gives the FCC the ability
         | to trace the source of these calls backwards and hold
         | responsible the gateways acting in bad faith.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | I stopped getting spam phone calls months ago. Something
           | definitely changed in the last year, or maybe 2 years.
           | 
           | It was ridiculously often in 2020/2021/sometime in 2022
           | maybe?
        
             | mustacheemperor wrote:
             | Hasn't changed for me. I am constantly pestered by spoofed-
             | local-number spam calls at both my personal number and my
             | work number, in two different area codes. My job requires
             | me to be available on the phone so it's particularly
             | frustrating because of how often I have to pick them up
             | just to hear about a warranty on yet another car I've never
             | owned.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | That's a bummer. I am using ATT's mobile service, on an
               | iPhone. Maybe different carriers/phones have different
               | implementations?
        
               | mustacheemperor wrote:
               | Also ATT/iPhone. I think Google Voice (my work line)
               | routes through a different network and I do think I get
               | more spam calls there.
        
             | squeaky-clean wrote:
             | I've gotten 6 spam calls so far today.
        
             | sq_ wrote:
             | Similar experience here. I got absolutely ridiculous
             | numbers of spam calls up until maybe early 2022? Now I get
             | almost none in comparison. Like 2-3 a month as opposed to
             | tons every week before.
        
         | shrubble wrote:
         | This method basically has not yet been used much, but it is in
         | place.
         | 
         | The dangerous issue is that if a spam operator has 33% legit
         | traffic, do you kill the spam operator and the good traffic
         | with it, or what? Kill the traffic... innocent people harmed,
         | or leave the traffic, spam continues.
        
           | groby_b wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
             | dang wrote:
             | You can't do this here, and we ban accounts that post like
             | this, so please don't do it again.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
           | cameldrv wrote:
           | You tell the operator to cut off the spammers, and if they
           | don't do it in a reasonable time you cut off the operator.
        
           | INGSOCIALITE wrote:
           | If a vpn has 33% legit traffic do you ban every IP range of
           | their service?
        
             | genmud wrote:
             | Yes
        
           | yetanotherloss wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | barney54 wrote:
           | Kill the traffic. The operator has to do a better job to stay
           | in business.
        
             | proto_lambda wrote:
             | The operator's business is not the concern here.
        
               | genmud wrote:
               | If a bank is comprised of 66% of their customers being
               | narcos, the bank gets shut down.
               | 
               | You don't get to facilitate in illegal shit and hide
               | behind your legitimate customers. Likewise, if you are a
               | customer of theirs and know they heavily transact with
               | illegal services, it's on you for getting blocked.
        
               | virtue3 wrote:
               | Naw they just get a slap on the wrists from the Feds and
               | move on. No jail time even. Now if you and I laundered
               | money to the Mexican drug cartels...
               | 
               | "too big to jail because they are too big to fail"
               | 
               | https://www.investopedia.com/stock-
               | analysis/2013/investing-n...
        
               | jfengel wrote:
               | Their legitimate customers are. If that means getting the
               | operator to clean up their act, so much the better. If
               | they won't, then at some point their legitimate customers
               | will suffer.
               | 
               | And will probably have to jump to a more expensive
               | provider who isn't subsidizing them with spammer revenue.
        
           | gorkish wrote:
           | > The dangerous issue is that if a spam operator has 33%
           | legit traffic, do you kill the spam operator and the good
           | traffic with it, or what?
           | 
           | You are implying that "you" means the telco or FCC decides on
           | behalf of "everyone." That is not the correct viewpoint. If
           | the telcos are the common carrier, they dont get to decide. I
           | am the customer; I get to decide. Problem solved. No
           | additional regulation or debate is needed. This isn't hard.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > I am the customer; I get to decide. Problem solved.
             | 
             | If only we actually had that ability. The best mechanism
             | available to me is what I do: if I get a call from a number
             | that isn't in my phone book, I don't answer it.
        
             | myself248 wrote:
             | If the spam calls have spoofed source numbers, the provider
             | should be within their rights to refuse the traffic
             | regardless of common carrier status.
             | 
             | I am the customer and I would love to see the data of which
             | providers _originated_ each call that I'm about to answer.
             | That would make it trivial to set rules about which ones
             | don't even ring. But until I can have that data, I wish
             | they'd just drop the obvious junk.
        
               | gorkish wrote:
               | >I am the customer and I would love to see the data of
               | which providers _originated_ each call that I'm about to
               | answer.
               | 
               | The telcos have this information, but they only usually
               | relay the CallerID (which is user-specified, ie
               | "spoofable") to the end user. ANI, RPID, and now
               | SHAKEN/STIR information which does identify the origin
               | and origin carrier are simply not passed to end users to
               | do anything with, or at least I have not been able to get
               | them to do it despite having capable interfaces.
        
           | robgibbons wrote:
           | Thus describes the incentive, and the onus, for the provider
           | to prevent spam on their network.
        
           | MiddleEndian wrote:
           | Kill the spam operator.
           | 
           | Also end-users should get information from every hop, so we
           | can block whatever we want with full information, client-
           | side, uBlock-origin style.
        
           | mrandish wrote:
           | > if a spam operator has 33% legit traffic, do you kill the
           | spam operator and the good traffic with it, or what?
           | 
           | Yes, we should with these long-time, serial offenders. Having
           | legit traffic is just a fig leaf cover for them anyway. Any
           | legit reseller clueless or negligent enough to accidentally
           | stumble into business with these guys will switch providers
           | as soon as their customer's calls stop connecting.
           | 
           | Also, no real telecom providers are routing meaningful
           | amounts of traffic through these shady operations. Any legit
           | traffic on their networks is mostly coming from fly-by-night,
           | bottom-feeding telecom resellers in the same countries the
           | spam calls originate from. Any retail customers of those
           | resellers are probably paying ripoff prices for unreliable
           | per-day or per-call service anyway. It's not people with
           | normal pre-paid monthly service from any legit telco you've
           | ever heard of.
        
         | gorkish wrote:
         | SHAKEN/STIR are implemented but the providers have given no
         | tools to the end users to actually do anything actionable with
         | it. Heck, they haven't even exposed it unless you are a
         | megacorp.
         | 
         | The telcos might be a common carrier, but as the end user I
         | sure as shit should be able to block calls originating from
         | providers I see abuse from constantly. I'm looking RIGHT AT
         | YOU, TxtNow.
        
           | tjohns wrote:
           | > Heck, they haven't even exposed it unless you are a
           | megacorp.
           | 
           | Cell phones surface the SHAKEN/STIR attestation status to the
           | user via a checkmark in the telephone UI.
           | 
           | If you want to programmatically act on that data to filter
           | calls... Android provides access to the attestation level via
           | the android.telecom.CallScreeningService API. (I can't speak
           | to what iOS provides.) For VoIP, many providers will also
           | either pass along the attestation level in the SIP headers or
           | by appending some text to the Caller ID string.
        
             | AdrianEGraphene wrote:
             | Neat. Sounds like I gotta explore what's available there
             | now. The parent comment's issue sounds like a pretty good
             | feature to add to an app... thx.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | supertrope wrote:
         | We're still very early in the process.
         | 
         | 1) Deploy caller ID signing. <--We are here.
         | 
         | 2) Deploy policies to make inter-telco tracebacks easier and
         | increase liability for carrying too much spam.
         | 
         | 3) Drop unsigned traffic and shutdown spam friendly portions of
         | the PSTN (analogous to open email relays).
         | 
         | 4) Use the tracebacks and KYC to deter robocalling operations
         | from getting onboarded and ban current customers who are
         | robocalling. And keep them banned when they open new sockpuppet
         | accounts. It'll never be completely eliminated.
         | 
         | 5) See 4.
         | 
         | Two-thirds of PSTN traffic is unsigned.
         | https://transnexus.com/blog/2023/shaken-statistics-july/
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | >In response to the FCC's enforcement action against Illum in
       | October 2021, the CEO and Director of Illum, Prince Anand
       | (Anand), who sometimes uses the alias "Frank Murphy," Prince
       | Anand Skype Chat, June 10, 2021 at 8:18:53 AM ("Frank Murphy"
       | introduces himself as Prince Anand) (on file at EB-
       | TCD-20-00030805) (Anand Skype Chat). created One Eye. Id. at
       | October 24, 2021 at 8:16:14 AM and 8:16:21 AM (Anand telling
       | Great Choice Telecom to expect a new sign up under the name "One
       | Eye" that day).
       | 
       | > To deflect the FCC's scrutiny, Anand intended to keep his name
       | off One Eye's corporate documents. Id. at 7:40:25 AM, 8:11:13 AM,
       | 8:13:20 AM, 8:14:48 AM, 8:14:55 AM, 8:15:04 AM, 8:16:14 AM,
       | 8:55:50 AM, 9:01:49 AM, 9:02:21 AM, and 9:02:26 AM (Anand
       | explains that due to the Commission's cease-and-desist letter he
       | will "not be included in any companies" but will work "on the
       | backend [sic]").
       | 
       | > Kaushal Bhavsar, a director of Illum, became One Eye's CEO. One
       | Eye LLC Listing, Fed. Commc'ns Comm'n, Robocall Mitigation
       | Database (Oct. 26, 2021),
       | https://fccprod.servicenowservices.com/rmd?id=rmd_form&table...
       | (showing Bhavsar as CEO of One Eye); Illum Telecommunication,
       | https://www.illumtelecommunication.com/ (last visited July 14,
       | 2023).
       | 
       | > Aashay Khandelwal, the Human Resource Representative for Illum,
       | subsequently formed One Owl and became the CEO. See Illum
       | Telecommunication, https://www.illumtelecommunication.com/ (last
       | visited July 14, 2023); see also One Owl Telecom Inc. Listing,
       | Fed. Commc'ns Comm'n, Robocall Mitigation Database (Apr. 25,
       | 2022),
       | https://fccprod.servicenowservices.com/rmd?id=rmd_form&table...
       | (showing Khandelwal as the CEO of One Owl).
       | 
       | > Julya Barros, a seemingly close acquaintance of Anand, Compare
       | @illum_telecom, Twitter,
       | https://twitter.com/illum_telecom?lang=hi (as archived by Google
       | and last visited May 16, 2023) (screenshots on file at EB-
       | TCD-20-00030805), with Julya Barros (@julyabarross), Instagram,
       | http://www.instagram.com/julyabarross (last visited July 14,
       | 2023).became Vice President of Sales and Marketing at One Owl.
       | See Julya Barros, LinkedIn, https://ae.linkedin.com/in/julya-
       | barros-928008245 (last visited July 14, 2023) (screenshots on
       | file at EB-TCD-20-00030805).
       | 
       | >One Owl and One Eye used the same IP address to conduct their
       | business. March ITG Subpoena Response, supra note 4.
       | 
       | > One Owl and One Eye communicated under the same email domain,
       | @oneeyetelecom.com. Compare Incorp Services Interrogatories
       | Response at para. 15 (on file at EB-TCD-20-00030805) (Incorp
       | Services Interrog.) (showing One Eye used the @oneeyetelecom.com
       | domain), with id. at para. 3 and Ex. A (on file at EB-
       | TCD-20-00030805) (showing One Owl used the @oneeyetelecom.com
       | domain).
       | 
       | >The personnel connections between One Owl, One Eye, and Illum
       | are summarized in the table below.
       | 
       | The FCC is just playing whack-a-mole as soon as it begins
       | enforcement on a company, the people involved just get together
       | with their buddies and form a new company.
       | 
       | This will never work to curb robocalls.
       | 
       | Instead, the US Government needs to do the following
       | 
       | 1. Require a $10 million dollar 5 year bond to start one of these
       | companies. If the company engages in facilitating robocalling,
       | the bond is forfeit
       | 
       | 2. Criminal charges and enforcement against the agents of these
       | companies
       | 
       | 3. Immigration action against the agents and associates of these
       | companies including deportation and permanent visa bans.
       | 
       | Only then can the US government begin to combat this. Otherwise,
       | doing more of the same is going to be completely ineffective and
       | a waste of time and resources.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _1. Require a $10 million dollar 5 year bond to start one of
         | these companies. If the company engages in facilitating
         | robocalling, the bond is forfeit_
         | 
         | This is how you get people on HN to start howling "regulatory
         | capture!"
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | That used to be the case of the HN hivemind maybe three, four
           | years ago (just noticed, my account is over ten years old,
           | WTF).
           | 
           | IMO, I think the general vibe here started to shift back with
           | the Jan 6th putsch attempt, and completely turned during the
           | Russian war: undeniable signs showing how far a situation can
           | escalate when malicious actors are left to roam free, and
           | that a truly free market requires at least some sort of
           | regulation as guardrails.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | What does the FCC have to do with the mobility scooter
             | coup?
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | Why would outlaws obey the law and partake in the $10million 5
         | year bond?
        
           | supertrope wrote:
           | No deposit no service.
        
           | jimmaswell wrote:
           | I assume you need some licensing to operate a telco and other
           | telcos will not accept your traffic without one.
        
             | sobkas wrote:
             | All you need is access to SS7/Delimeter, there are people
             | who will grant you that for a price. If you stick to
             | abusing users and do nothing that would anger telecoms you
             | are most of the time free to do what you want.
        
       | codetrotter wrote:
       | Robocalls, you say?
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/YVrX767IkdI
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/uIecyRCIFkI
        
       | RajT88 wrote:
       | Awesome.
       | 
       | Now go after the timeshare companies.
        
       | mikeyouse wrote:
       | We've become so desensitized to spam and robocalls due to the
       | scale of the problem - but these should absolutely be treated as
       | attempted theft. If there were a gang going door to door trying
       | to con elderly or otherwise gullible people into giving them
       | thousands of dollars, there would be task forces formed and
       | police patrols on every block. Instead, since it happens over the
       | internet and on the phone, we give it benign names and treat it
       | like a minor hassle and let everyone fend for themselves.
       | 
       | How did we become "okay" with having most of the communication
       | that reaches people be malicious? What is Federal law enforcement
       | doing? Why the hell hasn't the FCC nuked these companies' ability
       | to operate? Who is lobbying _for_ this shit?
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | Politicians use the exact same companies and tactics to solicit
         | votes, so why would they fight against themselves?
         | 
         | A politician's job is to stay in power and work towards their
         | reelection, not make your life better. In some cases those
         | goals happen to align but that's merely coincidence and should
         | not be taken for granted.
         | 
         | In this case, effective anti-robocall legislation would also
         | work against their own interests.
        
           | dragontamer wrote:
           | > Politicians use the exact same companies and tactics to
           | solicit votes, so why would they fight against themselves?
           | 
           | Say what you will, the 27th Amendment passed. (IE: makes it
           | constitutionally illegal for Representatives to give
           | themselves payraises immediately. They have to give pay-
           | raises for the _next_ congress, which means it may give a
           | pay-raise to the opponent if they lose the election).
           | 
           | Politicians do, and have, been forced by the people to make
           | bad choices for themselves for the good of the country. And
           | its not like its an easy thing to pass a Constitutional
           | Amendment like the 27th.
           | 
           | ---------------
           | 
           | We also used to have very strong laws with regards to
           | campaign finance. It was actually our judges who took those
           | laws away in the Citizen's United case.
           | 
           | But our politicians actually put those laws into place to
           | allow the people to trust them more during campaign finance
           | season.
           | 
           | Etc. etc. Plenty of examples. All we need is to convince
           | enough people that a particular law is a good idea, and then
           | that law will happen.
        
         | joering2 wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | decremental wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | tehwebguy wrote:
           | Weird how police are the most funded they've ever been (every
           | year going back like a hundred years with rare and negligible
           | exceptions) and yet they are so bad at stopping this alleged
           | crime wave.
        
             | capitainenemo wrote:
             | I think they're referring to California upping the cutoff
             | for shoplifting being a misdemeanor to $950. A quick search
             | found this (right leaning) source that might have been the
             | one they were reading. https://www.hoover.org/research/why-
             | shoplifting-now-de-facto...
             | 
             | Police tend to spend a lot less time on misdemeanors for
             | obvious reasons, so makes sense why funding wouldn't impact
             | that much.
        
               | m-ee wrote:
               | Looting a couple handbags or iPhones easily gets you over
               | the felony limit, still no action. The police in the Bay
               | Area just really don't want to do their jobs unless
               | there's a gun involved. The law change provides a
               | convenient scapegoat but doesn't actually explain the
               | inaction.
        
       | takinola wrote:
       | After I moved states, I discovered a pretty effective anti-spam
       | call heuristic. If the call is coming from the same area code as
       | my phone number, it is most likely spam.
       | 
       | It seems spam callers assume most calls will likely be from a
       | local number and so they initiate calls from the same area code
       | as the target. However, since the area code in my local area is
       | completely different from mine (since I moved), this tactic
       | actually backfires and acts as a pretty good spam signal.
        
         | phlakaton wrote:
         | Worse than that (but way more telling), sometimes it's the same
         | area code AND prefix. C'mon, man.
        
           | Johnny555 wrote:
           | I used to think that was a dumb move on the part of the
           | scammers, and probably would only be effective in a small
           | town where most of the people you know have the same
           | prefix... Then I realized that most of the successfully
           | scammed victims probably live in those small towns.
        
             | phlakaton wrote:
             | Great point! I hadn't thought about that. It's my cell that
             | gets hits like this, so the prefix is extra-irrelevant.
        
         | mplewis wrote:
         | On iOS, ExchangeBlocker helps block these calls:
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/exchangeblocker/id1344628290
        
       | pdq wrote:
       | Looks like their web site is offline now:
       | 
       | https://www.oneowltelecom.com/
       | 
       | And the LinkedIn profile is gone:
       | 
       | https://www.linkedin.com/company/one-owl-telecom-inc
        
       | downWidOutaFite wrote:
       | Biden's fcc is actually doing its job compared with Trump's anti
       | consumer Ajit Pai.
        
         | happytiger wrote:
         | Here here. It was amazing how much of a regulatory capture case
         | study that man was...
        
         | tomschlick wrote:
         | To be fair, Trump's FCC was pushing STIR/SHAKEN hard but it
         | takes years for the major telcos to implement and push it
         | downstream to all of the various SIP providers that buy numbers
         | from them.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN#Implementation
         | 
         | Biden's FCC is able to take action because those were finally
         | finished and now can enforce with the call source traceability
         | they didn't have a few years ago.
        
       | withinrafael wrote:
       | A PDF is also available for those that have trouble reading that
       | raw text
       | (https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-23-652A1.pdf)
        
       | kazz wrote:
       | Now if only they'd take some sort of action against all the spam
       | text messages I get. I swear I get a dozen texts a week from
       | stringofnumbers@fakeemail.com telling me my amazon account has
       | been suspended or a USPS package is on hold.
        
         | happytiger wrote:
         | I get 5-10 a day honestly. I have to ban every one of them or
         | they become accumulative with repeat calls because they keep
         | calling and calling. They frequently then just move to another
         | number and we do it again...
         | 
         | It's obviously a handful of companies behaving very badly.
         | Let's me share some examples...
         | 
         | They say the same things from the same companies:
         | 
         | - "Hi this is Jamie with the RTC helpdesk I'm calling to let
         | you know that substantial business tax incentives that are
         | still available through the employee retention tax credit _ _ _
         | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ can provide business funding up to
         | $26,000 for each W-2 employee you had on staff during 2020 and
         | 2021 if you qualify we do all of the work and submit your
         | application ...
         | 
         | - "Hi this is James calling from coastal debt resolved we help
         | small business owners lower the payments or restructure any
         | merchant cash advances that they've taken out and are having a
         | difficult time getting them back we thought it was possible you
         | might have one or more of these I want to see if we can offer
         | our help my direct line is 877-412-0535 please give me a call
         | at your earliest convenience so we can discuss your current
         | situation thanks and have a great day..."
         | 
         | - "888-310-9170 I'm contacting you regarding a potential refund
         | opportunity for your business related to the year 2020 and 2021
         | please be aware that this refund does not involve any taxes or
         | loans and there is no need for repayment to proceed with the
         | refund process we simply need to verify some details regarding
         | your businesses employee account during those years if you
         | believe this call was not meant for you or if you wish to opt
         | out of any future communication please press nine when calling
         | back thank you for your time and I'm eagerly awaiting the
         | opportunity to speak with you best regards Eva..."
         | 
         | - "Hey this is Mark reaching back out again please give me a
         | call back at 205-460-5936 so I did receive a notification today
         | at your business is done and Bradstreet score was recently
         | upgraded up to a 76 now this is a big deal because I put you in
         | the top 10% of businesses in your industry and revenue range
         | now because it is great score we're happy to see that your
         | business has been preapproved for a business credit line up to
         | $500,000 and the interest rate on these lines start his lowest
         | 4.8% so they really don't cost very much at one of the best
         | things about this offer is how fast we can get the money over
         | to you if you were to say yes to this credit line we can have
         | the funds over to you within just 24 hours please remember
         | these offers don't last forever so please call me back directly
         | at 205-460-5936 to make sure there's no confusion that's
         | 205-460-5936 hope you have a really good day I have a blessed
         | day and thank you..."
         | 
         | - "Hey it's Tiffany with capital group I'm just touching base
         | regarding your business plans of corner am I still have
         | immediate funding options up to $250,000 with limited to no
         | documentation necessary so am I can be reached at 949-4645479
         | I'll give you that number again it's ...
         | 
         | The capital group hits me up many times a week from many
         | different sources.
         | 
         | I don't even bother to answer calls. I just ask people to leave
         | a message. It's made my phone basically unusable.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | I find that Fastmail's spam filters do a very good job of
         | preventing these from ever reaching me. What provider are you
         | using?
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | They're talking about text messages. You can send a text
           | message from an email address. For example
           | "8675309@txt.att.net" would send a text message to Jenny if
           | she were an AT&T subscriber.
        
       | binkHN wrote:
       | I hate to push products, but happiness is the Call Screen built
       | into Pixel phones. If it feels the call might not be spam, I
       | still have the option to screen it and watch the party converse
       | with the Google Assistant in real time--kind of like the
       | answering machines of old, but you can read instead of listen.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | gochi wrote:
         | Call Screen is a nice addition to global call control (or
         | whatever it gets renamed to per carrier), that just prompts
         | callers with a simple "press this button to continue the call".
         | 
         | Went from every day at least a dozen calls mostly from spoofed
         | numbers, to only getting the important ones. Call Screen winds
         | up being just a nice cherry on top.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | For my use, 99% of the time i just leave my iPhone set to
         | silently reject all calls from unknown numbers, and that works
         | for me.
         | 
         | it's pretty rare that there's somebody not already in my
         | contacts that i actually want to be able to call me. they can
         | go to voicemail, and i'll deal with it later.
        
           | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
           | I live in Aus. Spam calls use unredacted numbers. Several
           | places, including the police, do redact their number. I have
           | no idea why they don't use a single egress number so I know
           | who's calling, but here we are.
           | 
           | Just imagine reporting to the police that a stalker is
           | calling you from an unknown number, only to have the police
           | call you on an unknown number.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Except for when a restaurant is calling you to let you know
           | that your table is ready.
           | 
           | Or your doctor's office is calling to let you know they
           | suddenly have an opening this afternoon.
           | 
           | Or your Uber driver is calling to let you know you left
           | something valuable in their car, right after they've dropped
           | you off at the airport.
           | 
           | And so forth. I've learned from hard experience that
           | silencing all calls from non-contacts bites you in the ass.
           | There are legitimate calls that benefit you _now_ , where
           | going to voicemail defeats the purpose.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | My doctor's office is in my phone book, so that's covered.
             | 
             | For things like restaurants, I know that I'll be receiving
             | a call from an unknown number and will just answer it.
             | 
             | For unexpected things, like Uber, they'll leave a message
             | on my voice mail. I'll be notified of that as soon as
             | they're done and will check it immediately.
             | 
             | That all works for me. It's a shame that I have to do all
             | of that rather than just answer the phone, but there's no
             | other option that I can see.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Yeah. I'm willing to bet that the casual "so what if they
             | can't reach me" crowd don't have elderly parents, kids,
             | spouses, don't put themselves in group trip situations
             | where you don't want to put everyone's number in your
             | permanent contacts, etc. No it's pretty much idiocy to
             | basically throw away voice calls because you get a usually
             | obvious junk call now and then.
        
             | Waterluvian wrote:
             | To each their own, and everyone's life has different
             | complexities, but a decade of never answering a number I
             | don't know has yet to be a problem. A few times a year I'll
             | get a message from the doctor on my _answering machine_.
             | That's about it.
             | 
             | Generally they prey on people who cannot override their
             | fear of missing out. It's the "you may have already won!"
             | trick in a different format.
        
           | TylerE wrote:
           | I would do that, but my doctors office seems to have at least
           | 100 phone lines, and the number that shows up on the caller
           | is basically random after the first 4 digits.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | If you use Google Fi, you just view the voice transcript
             | and then call back.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Oh I wish. I'm in Optimum (Former Suddenlink) territory.
               | 
               | It's only in the past year I was able to upgrade from
               | 300mbps to gigabit, and it ain't fiber. Also obvious that
               | the local techs have no clue what they're doing since the
               | link goes down several times a night briefly, always at
               | exactly 15 minutes after the hour. It's obvious there's a
               | switch or something that they're just rebooting every
               | night.
        
               | lamontcg wrote:
               | Google Fi != Google Fiber
               | 
               | One is a cell phone plan, one is an ISP.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Oh. Shrug. I hate android so I don't really follow that
               | ecosystem
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | Quite often you'll find that the doctors office is part of
             | a larger system for an entire medical center. Your call can
             | get routed out any open physical line. These days fully
             | VOIP systems will mask the number as the primary, but some
             | systems still have physical connectivity to the phone
             | companny.
        
           | capitainenemo wrote:
           | I don't like rejecting calls. I prefer they go to voice
           | mail/transcription, so I set my main system ringtone to a few
           | seconds of silence, and then a custom ringtone for everyone
           | in my contact list (plus a few additional ringtones for
           | family and close friends).
           | 
           | Bonus, if I happen to notice the phone screen light up with
           | an unknown number and I know I'm waiting for a service
           | station to call, I can always try my luck that it is actually
           | legit.
        
           | Trias11 wrote:
           | This.
           | 
           | Problem solved.
        
           | ars wrote:
           | Do you have family? Because I've heard horror stories of
           | people who did this, and then no one could contact them when
           | a family member was seriously hurt.
        
             | njovin wrote:
             | I do this and I have family. If somebody leaves a voicemail
             | I check it right away.
             | 
             | About 6 months ago I started getting 10-30 calls per day so
             | I really have no other option. Most of them are Medicare
             | scammers (I'm not even old enough to qualify). I cannot
             | fathom how:
             | 
             | 1. The FCC/telcos have managed to allow anyone to spoof any
             | number they like with no oversight and no (effective) abuse
             | reporting system. This has been going on for years with
             | absolutely no improvement.
             | 
             | 2. Medicare is apparently so easy to scam out of money that
             | all they need is my name and birthday to get money out of
             | the system on my behalf. When I've answered and played
             | along by giving them fake information, they always hang up
             | as soon as they have these 2 pieces of info.
        
               | manicennui wrote:
               | If scamming Medicare were that easy, they would just buy
               | a list.
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | I set up an IVR that requires (non-white listed) callers to
           | press a number to ring through. My spam calls went from
           | several most days to less than one a year. I suppose I also
           | miss out on automated appointment reminders, but whatever.
        
         | kevinventullo wrote:
         | This is the one feature I really wish iPhone had.
        
           | coder543 wrote:
           | iOS 17 won't be bringing the automatic call screening, but it
           | will be bringing the ability to send calls to "voicemail" and
           | screen them yourself, picking up if you feel like it's worth
           | answering.
        
             | Laremere wrote:
             | Honestly, this is what I wish Android's call screen was.
             | Call screen starts by explaining itself, which I think
             | could waste time, can be confusing, and possibly is
             | insulting. Compared to a quick "Hey please leave a message
             | after the beep."
             | 
             | I want to be able to send basically all unexpected calls to
             | the screening, and only pick up if it's something I want to
             | respond to right now. It feels rude to, eg, send a neighbor
             | to a call screening service when I definitely have their
             | number but don't want to drop what I'm doing to hear them
             | complain about something.
        
         | cdchn wrote:
         | Pretty much the major thing preventing me from switching to
         | iPhone at this point.
        
         | neeleshs wrote:
         | 100%. Call Screen and the usual spam detector in Pixel has made
         | call spam a non issue. I also don't pickup any calls that are
         | not from my phonebook and let them go to VM/assistant, and
         | listen to them immediately.
        
         | thanhhaimai wrote:
         | This so much. I don't remember that spam calls exist anymore
         | until I read a post someone complaining about getting spam
         | calls. It works so well. I haven't had a false negative in the
         | 3 years of using it. All the people who truly wanted to contact
         | me would say something into the assistant, and the phone rang,
         | and I'd pick it up.
        
           | onedognight wrote:
           | Apple does this as well, but this is a Band-Aid. Think of the
           | old people who get scammed by these calls. This is a system
           | issue and should be fixed as such. It's frankly embarrassing
           | how the phone companies have effectively killed the "phone
           | call" through their neglect.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | > phone companies have effectively killed the "phone call"
             | through their neglect.
             | 
             | They haven't - they're still making bank on the spam
             | traffic, which is also why they're reluctant to implement
             | solutions despite it technically being trivial.
             | 
             | If phone spam was actually making a dent in revenue (aka
             | legitimate call revenue was going down and the revenue from
             | spam wasn't making up for it) they would've got their act
             | together very quickly.
        
             | luma wrote:
             | Nope, not quite public yet. Google has had this for years
             | but Apple is just now about to get it with the release of
             | iOS 17 and "live voicemail". Still have a month or so
             | before that's out of beta.
        
             | p_j_w wrote:
             | I've recently gotten an iPhone (coming from a Pixel 7), and
             | it's honestly not in the same league for dealing with Spam
             | calls. It's much more of an annoyance since I switched.
        
       | rrauenza wrote:
       | I really like it when someone in the middle has changed the
       | caller id to say "FRAUDULENT".
       | 
       | Someone I know believes strongly that the telco's don't care to
       | police and would rather push people onto cheaper to maintain
       | mobile technology. (We get orders of magnitude more scammer calls
       | on our landline than our mobiles.) But there's a lot of
       | assumptions in that belief...
       | 
       | Is there any truth to those economics? Is there a bad incentive
       | here for the telcos?
        
         | AdrianEGraphene wrote:
         | The product isn't necessarily true (mobile -> landline push),
         | but the profit-seeking is certainly expected, as it is for all
         | businesses. While the amount of minutes & attentions that are
         | generated from spam calls helps the telcos, because they get
         | paid either way... that doesn't mean they're negligent. They
         | just don't have the right tools to police this since they're
         | common carriers. Things are changing little by little and with
         | upcoming changes in telco infrastructure, I expect Q4 this year
         | to show a strong signal of what the future holds.
        
       | throw9away6 wrote:
       | Just force them to buy phone numbers like we sell ips. Each
       | number could be $1 and you burn them when an operator gets caught
        
         | iforgotpassword wrote:
         | And soon we will have 20-digit numbers :-)
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | That's almost exactly how the system currently works. The spam
         | is still profitable despite that.
        
           | Rygian wrote:
           | Then the price is not right. Make it expensive from the
           | start, and then gradually give back most of the price when
           | the user has had a good standing for long enough.
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | Sort of like charging a deposit on them? Don't screw it up
             | for a year and we'll apply it to your next bill?
        
         | kabdib wrote:
         | They'll just buy numbers with more stolen money.
        
       | re wrote:
       | The submitted text file is missing some formatting, making it
       | difficult to read. Links to PDFs for this letter, as well as a
       | related press release and a letter sent to One Owl, are available
       | here: https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-notifies-carriers-
       | repeated-...
        
       | to11mtm wrote:
       | OK now do the bigger providers that allow robotexting without
       | consent...
       | 
       | I received unsolicited texts from a "Buy your house cash" company
       | last year. Of course, they did not identify the company name in
       | the texts, not even with prompting...
       | 
       | I was able to trace the number to a larger provider... [0] The
       | provider was unwilling to tell me who originally called me. Which
       | is _strange_. If a company wants my business, shouldn 't they be
       | willing to say who they are? If a VOIP/TOIP provider doesn't
       | disclose who communicates with you, isn't that a way to shield
       | harassment?
       | 
       | But, as always, it's about who pays the most money to the
       | lawmakers via lobbying...
       | 
       | [0] - By 'Large', I will say that they are a provider for
       | Microsoft Teams Voice calls/texts in the US.
        
         | supertrope wrote:
         | The US cellular industry is cracking down on SMS spam. Lots of
         | "legitimate" businesses that rely on SMS are complaining about
         | 10DLC.
        
           | to11mtm wrote:
           | Yeah, I actually worked on the compliance side for a publicly
           | traded company.
           | 
           | The amount of work 'legitimate' providers make you put in can
           | sometimes be painful, especially when they don't do what they
           | say they are gonna do. But we did our part to make sure we
           | stayed compliant. Making sure that even our 'semi-automated'
           | messages (i.e. the user selected from a dropdown and the
           | template filled in blanks) were registered, making sure
           | appropriate unsubscribe verbiage was always present, while
           | still fitting meaningful context into 160 characters. _Then_
           | making sure each of those messages was registered, reviewed,
           | and approved with the provider. Unfortunately there were
           | still times that the provider failed to do their part, and
           | despite being told we were  'good to go' we would discover a
           | large volume of our texts were blocked by our provider or a
           | downstream network, because someone dropped the ball. [0]
           | 
           | I guess that's what frustrates me; our company did the right
           | work, and even then our provider sometimes got in the way
           | with their own mistakes... But far less scrupulous companies
           | appear to get away with all sorts of non-compliance and their
           | provider doesn't care for whatever reason. [1]
           | 
           | [0] - Worth mentioning, the texts in question were not even
           | solicitations. They were texts related to the 'process'
           | people had already agreed to. Without divulging the actual
           | industry, the best analogy would be things like being told
           | that there was a problem with your vehicle order and to call
           | us, or that your vehicle had been delivered was ready to be
           | picked up tomorrow. [2]
           | 
           | [1] - My gut says, the reason those providers don't care, is
           | that they get to collect more money for more texts sent.
           | 
           | [2] - No, it wasn't automotive, I'm just trying to give a
           | good analogy here. Less life impacting than surgery but more
           | life impacting than a simple package delivery.
        
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