[HN Gopher] Try the last internet Kermit server ___________________________________________________________________ Try the last internet Kermit server Author : todsacerdoti Score : 156 points Date : 2023-08-05 05:42 UTC (17 hours ago) (HTM) web link (changelog.complete.org) (TXT) w3m dump (changelog.complete.org) | tazjin wrote: | > This story is a winding one, beginning in 1981. Kermit is, to | the best of my knowledge, the oldest actively-maintained software | package with an original developer still participating. | | This is a bit of a philosophical question, for example, much of | the (Lisp) code in current Emacs is from the 70s, but the GNU | Emacs interpreter wasn't started until the mid 80s (also ... | people weren't great at version control in the 70s, so there's | not much actual development history). | Canada wrote: | I remember using this to transfer files with BBS... zmodem was | more popular but kermit could take advantage of full duplex so | you could upload some files while downloading others at the same | time. I had no idea it was still a thing. | sllabres wrote: | The same here. My BBS time was with [xz]modem only, but as the | author of the article I've used kermit for a HP48-SX too (Love | it that there is a android emulator for this calculator :-) | michaelcampbell wrote: | I was active during that time, but like programming languages | now, I played with all the ul/dl protocols I could find, | then. In addition to the ones you mentioned, there was also | wxmodem and ymodem that saw some popularity in places. | | I once had a chat on Compuserve with Ward Christensen, the | inventor of xmodem. He seemed surprised that anyone | recognized his name. | detourdog wrote: | I remember Kermit as thing I didn't have to use because of | z-modem. I had a comprehension problem and never got kermt | working but z-modem I could. | glimshe wrote: | I considered Kermit bad then for pretty much anything, imagine | now... | jtode wrote: | Sure. Whereas in many many cases, zmodem was not an option, | Kermit worked everywhere, if you believe OP. | | I also remember using Kermit for a BBS file transfer once. | Once. | pridkett wrote: | > I also remember using Kermit for a BBS file transfer | once. Once. | | Similar memory here. Wasn't sure about the different | protocols offered in Telix and I used Kermit once because | the BBS offered it. Right after the sysop burst in on chat | and told me not to use Kermit and only use zmodem. | | That was basically what I did until HSLink came out and let | me do bidirectional, chat, and play Tetris while waiting. | Good times. Good memories. | pdw wrote: | Well, according to the article Kermit's performance problems | have been fixed :) | | "Although ZModem came out a few years before Kermit had its | performance optimizations, by about 1993 Kermit was on par or | faster than ZModem." | devilbunny wrote: | It _was_ optimizable - if you had a proper Kermit client | that did all the stuff ZModem did, like sliding ACK windows | and larger packet sizes. After we had error-correcting | modem protocols, line noise was much less of an issue. | | But most Kermit protocols in terminal software implemented | only the most basic version of the protocol and didn't | support all the options that you needed to set. | | Not sure about resuming, which was AFAICT only a ZModem | thing (and the best part of it). | tyingq wrote: | If you make comparisons only for "upload/download a file" | versus, for example, zmodem...Kermit doesn't fare well. | | Kermit is, though, more than that. One example is that it | includes a scripting functionality somewhat like the once | popular "Expect" package[1]. For things like interacting with | a Cisco router cli, ftp servers, etc. Or, as the article | mentions, "server mode[2]"...something zmodem also doesn't | do. | | So, for example, it was really useful "back in the day" for | things like connecting to a network enabled modem bank and | running batch jobs to do various things. | | [1] http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.html | | [2] http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckututor.html#iksd | shrubble wrote: | Expect is still very popular! There are implementations for | C, Python, and Perl at the least. And my expect scripts | written years ago, still work... | voxadam wrote: | I seem to remember the key benefit ZMODEM had over Kermit was | the ability to restart an interrupted file transfer. This was | especially useful in the days of yore when your younger sibling | or mom picked up the extension causing your modem to drop its | connection. | carlivar wrote: | I liked Super Zmodem, so I could play Tetris while my files | downloaded. | justanother wrote: | Pretty much the only way to download the cool warez that you FTPd | down (from some Scandinavian anonymous FTP site that displayed | the warning "our transatlantic link is only 128Kbit, so Yankees | please only leech at night") to your VM/CMS account. Can even be | used to transfer stuff over 2400bps AX.25 hamradio channels. The | 1980s equivalent of zip ties and bailing wire. | Someone wrote: | > from some Scandinavian anonymous FTP site | | funet.fi, I guess. Stil up and running (https://www.funet.fi/) | Jemm wrote: | You won't get the 1980s experience without busy signals, mom | telling you to get off the phone with your computer, and sysops | who demand upload/download ratios. | grubbs wrote: | My father was an engineer and I guess saw the value in | uninterrupted Internet. We had three phone lines in our | home..maybe we should have just gone with ISDN now that I think | about it. | cduzz wrote: | ISDN was a huge PITA to get to a residence. It took months to | get installed; I think there was one person in California who | actually did the installations. | | I later moved from one apartment to another in the complex; | it would have taken Stan another 6 months to move the service | from one address to another so I just opened up the phone | panel (wasn't locked) and moved the wires -- there was a 1 | week period where I was paying rent on both... | | There was an 800 number in the panel "contact us if changing | this so we can update the 911 database" I called it, | explained what I did and that was that. Maybe; I kept getting | billed, I kept the service, the billing info went to the | right address; I never did call for emergency services to see | if they'd show up. | | ISDN was certainly nice, though. Ah, the 90s, what a time to | be alive. | pmoriarty wrote: | The quintessential signature of the BBS era was the sound of | data that you heard coming out of your phone receiver. | clavoie wrote: | One of my useless skills back then was being able to | recognize modem speeds, brand and sometimes (especially | Motorolas and USRs) model just from the handshake noises they | made. | | For a little while, I could recognize my old man's BBS' | individual subscribers calling in just by turning up the | volume of the modem on top the 386 box... | mellamoyo wrote: | I still use the Kermit client almost daily. Enterprise network | gear still has serial ports (most still defaulted to 9600 baud!) | and have an old laptop running MS-DOS and Kermit in my staging | room to quickly configure remote access. | | Boots in seconds :) | eva_cananim wrote: | This reminds me of one of my many complaints about Microsoft | software. | | Windows 95, 98 and XP included hyperterminal. In theory | hyperterminal could send and receive files over a serial port. On | a few occasions I came across a machine with a broken floppy | drive or something and tried to use a null modem cable. | | Hyperterminal would give up after a few hundred kilobytes, | because it was programmed to do that. You had to find and | transfer a less stupid piece of software then use that instead. | tssva wrote: | > Hyperterminal would give up after a few hundred kilobytes, | because it was programmed to do that. You had to find and | transfer a less stupid piece of software then use that instead. | | Hyperterminal didn't have file transfer limitations built-in to | it. I used Hyperterminal regularly to transfer files much | larger than a few hundred kilobytes. | eva_cananim wrote: | My experience was that hyperterminal, when transfering files, | would give up after retrying a few blocks and there was no | way to tell it to not do that and keep trying. | dmd wrote: | Hyperterminal was not the problem. I regularly used | Hyperterminal on Win95 to transfer tens of megabytes of data | over null modem cables. | justsomehnguy wrote: | https://youtu.be/i0UR89QmPu0?t=669 | taubek wrote: | Kermit, Zmodem, and BBS... | a-dub wrote: | don't miss the prolific author's fascinating web archive hosted | at columbia university: | | homepage: http://www.columbia.edu/~fdc/ | | history of computing at columbia: | http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/ | | history of the genesis of kermit: | http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/dec20.html#kermit | | writings about the 1968 protests: | http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/1968/index.html | NikkiA wrote: | I wonder if there are any pad/cpad servers still around anywhere? | Probably not, I don't think much of the X.25 JANET remains at | this point. | user3939382 wrote: | I fondly remember puzzling over this option in Hyperterminal as a | kid in the 90s. The web was smaller then so the features and | stock programs of the OS were relatively more interesting and I | spent a lot of time with them. | helf wrote: | I had a toshiba T3100 laptop that was impossibly finicky about | what OS it would run (I only sold it off to a collector finally a | few years ago). | | After hundreds of hours of attempts I managed to get FreeDOS 0.4b | to boot up successfully off a 720kb floppy. I tried a ridiculous | number of DOSes (including 3.2 that it originally shipped with) | and other OSes and THAT version of FreeDOS is the only one that | would load for some reason. | | Anyways, all that to say I used that laptop for years with a | kermit lite client to act as a serial console to some of my ccmp | machines (Sparc Station 20 etc). Worked beautifully and | gorgeously as that (640x400 orange gas plasma display) . | | If you are a fan of old systems and want a nice serial terminal | get a t3x00. They arent that expensive and they have a wonderful | keyboard and beautiful screens :) | jmclnx wrote: | I use to use kermit with Coherent OS to log into the Sun System | at work. It was setup to dial into work, then work would call be | back and kermit would answer. | | This avoided long-distant charges :) | | good times, coherent info: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherent_%28operating_system%2... | sovok wrote: | The linked project website is interesting as well and quite a | deep rabbit hole: https://www.kermitproject.org/kermit.html | | > Although terminal emulation has been largely supplanted by the | Web for online access, Kermit software continues to play a role | in other applications such as remote sensing and data collection, | management and troubleshooting of networking and | telecommunications equipment, back office work, cargo and | inventory management, medical insurance claim submission, | electronic funds transfer, and online filing of income tax | returns. Kermit software is embedded in network routers and | switches, in cell-phone towers, in medical diagnostic and | monitoring equipment, even in cardiac pacemakers, not to mention | the cash registers of quite a few big-name "big box" retailers. | In 2002 Kermit flew on the International Space Station, and | Kermit software is the communication method used by EM APEX ocean | floats (left) supplying realtime data to hurricane researchers | and trackers to this day (the hurricane project entered a new | expanded phase in 2010 based on a new version of Embedded | Kermit). | | It contains its own Perl-like scripting language that predates | Perl (https://www.kermitproject.org/ckscripts.html#tut), which | supports ,,Prolog-like declarative logic programming" | (https://www.kermitproject.org/ftp/kermit/scripts/socrates), some | OOP (https://www.kermitproject.org/ftp/kermit/scripts/oop) and | S-expressions (https://www.kermitproject.org/ftp/kermit/scripts/s | hortest_pa...). | | There is a text-to-HTML converter | (https://www.kermitproject.org/ftp/kermit/scripts/html). Someone | should build a static site generator with that, running on a | calculator or embedded system on some buoy. | snvzz wrote: | I love `/mirrors/kermit/archives`. | | Kermit clients have been written for so many platforms. | | But I notice some are missing here (or I can't find?) yet | available in kermit's website here[0], such as mskermit and | pckermit. | | 0. https://www.kermitproject.org/archive.html | pridkett wrote: | Reading this article makes me want to set up an old school BBS | with door games like BRE, Legend of the Red Dragon, and Trade | Wars 2002. | dang wrote: | Related: | | _Fun with Kermit and ZMODEM over SSH_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35703057 - April 2023 (107 | comments) | | _C-Kermit Update History (since 8.0)_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31459620 - May 2022 (7 | comments) | | _Kermit - Misconceptions and Controversies (2021)_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31141417 - April 2022 (26 | comments) | | _Ask HN: How many of you are still using Kermit (the protocol)?_ | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29662980 - Dec 2021 (6 | comments) | | _Is This Site Secure?_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22136710 - Jan 2020 (50 | comments) | | _The Truth about Kermit News (1994)_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20588274 - Aug 2019 (3 | comments) | | _Transfer your files with Kermit_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19048427 - Jan 2019 (2 | comments) | | _Important News About the Kermit Project_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2421884 - April 2011 (1 | comment) | b1c837696ba28b wrote: | I'm surprised to see no references to space applications. Back | when I was using Kermit on CP/M I had an acquaintance who hacked | Kermit for satellite coms at TRW in El Segundo. Long live W6TRW! | [deleted] ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-08-05 23:00 UTC)