[HN Gopher] Satellite supergroup spots methane super-emitters
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       Satellite supergroup spots methane super-emitters
        
       Author : nixass
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2023-08-05 18:29 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (innovationorigins.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (innovationorigins.com)
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | So has this resulted in previously unknown/unexpected super-
       | emitters?
       | 
       | I'm curious if this has the potential to make a big difference,
       | if there are e.g. pipeline leaks costing companies a lot of money
       | that this can find, where the emitters have an incentive to fix
       | it.
       | 
       | Or if will be largely useless, because all the unknown culprits
       | turn out to be natural sources we can't do anything about, or
       | industrial processes in places where enforcement is lax already
       | and it won't change anything.
        
       | edrxty wrote:
       | No mention of MethaneSAT? There's an EDF funded private satellite
       | mission launching in a few months to go hunt methane emitters
       | with high accuracy
        
       | downWidOutaFite wrote:
       | My hypothesis is that unknown emissions like these is why climate
       | change seems to be happening faster than the models suggest.
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | I wonder what to do with this sort of information.
       | 
       | Perhaps our governments could add a carbon tariff or something,
       | if it is relatively easy to measure how much carbon is being
       | emitted and where.
        
         | euroderf wrote:
         | Does the United Nations have conventionally-armed cruise
         | missiles ? Shouldn't it ?
        
           | declan_roberts wrote:
           | Absolutely not unless you think the very worst most
           | dysfunctional working group you've experienced at work should
           | be able to make life-and-death decisions.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I know I've been in meetings where I've wished for the
             | sweet relief of death.
             | 
             | Would the use of force need to be unaimous, super majority,
             | simple majority, or a unilateral decision?
        
         | IAmGraydon wrote:
         | I believe the US government has been fining methane super
         | emitters for some time [1]. The problem is China is the
         | bigggest emitter - nearly double the next highest country,
         | which is India, followed closely by the US. That said, the US
         | emits far more than any other country per capita.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.texastribune.org/2023/07/19/callon-permian-
         | basin...
        
           | secondcoming wrote:
           | Is 'per capita' a useful metric other than to give the
           | largest emitters some sort of retort?
           | 
           | One person living alone on a private island who cooks food on
           | a fire several times a day might have a really high 'per
           | capita' score, but in the grand scheme of things it's utterly
           | irrelevant.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | It _is_ a bit weird that we need so many emissions per
             | person in the US. In the very least it ought to be a sign
             | of where there's slack in the system.
        
             | sargun wrote:
             | In your opinion what should pollution be measured as a
             | function of? If you choose not to measure it per capita,
             | then every country, no matter how large or small will be
             | measured equally, setting up perverse incentives for
             | smaller countries to have pollution heavy environments.
        
             | numbers_guy wrote:
             | The alternative would be to say that Americans are worth
             | more than Chinese (and Europeans and everyone else) and
             | have a God given right to emit twice as much.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | I guess it would be the Europeans who are worth the most,
               | right? Since they have smaller countries.
               | 
               | Unless we were to consider the whole of the EU as the
               | unit of carbon-blame.
        
             | kaba0 wrote:
             | If all he does is cooking food on fire, he definitely won't
             | have a high per capita score, per capita by definition
             | gives you an average. If he does below average than your
             | average western citizen, the score of his country will be
             | less of that.
             | 
             | We obviously have to account for it per capita -- you would
             | surely not allow as little CO2 emission for China as you
             | would to, say, Hungary. Like, that would be completely
             | unfair.
        
             | CorrectHorseBat wrote:
             | Yes because we polute to provide for people. You wouldn't
             | expect the USA to absolutely polute the same amount as
             | Liechtenstein.
        
             | WithinReason wrote:
             | So the solution to climate change is to break up China into
             | smaller countries that have emissions that are utterly
             | irrelevant!
        
               | kaba0 wrote:
               | The mathematical analysis solution!
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Even that would be tricky, they've got a couple cities
               | that are bigger than the median EU country.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | It is a big problem. We need a more integrated system than
           | just having the US fine domestic companies that emit too
           | much, I think. The obvious way to workaround that sort of
           | fine is just to outsource manufacturing and emissions to
           | China.
           | 
           | A first-pass attempt could be for countries that want to do
           | something about the problem to start up some sort of carbon
           | credit market, with heavy tariffs for goods imported from
           | outside the market.
        
             | lock-the-spock wrote:
             | That's exactly what the EU is doing - right now putting in
             | place the "CBAM" (carbon border adjustment mechanism)
        
       | nipponese wrote:
       | Related: Five Things You Should Know About COP26 - Reducing
       | methane is the fastest strategy available to reduce warming
       | 
       | https://www.state.gov/dipnote-u-s-department-of-state-offici...
        
       | declan_roberts wrote:
       | The article doesn't seem to mention it, what are the super
       | meters? What country are they located in and what are they doing?
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | In this context "super-emitters" means strong outliers,
         | locations or events where unusual amounts of something (i.e.
         | methane) are being released.
         | 
         | This often correlates to either accidents that have not been
         | detected/fixed, to deliberate pollution for financial again, or
         | to something nobody realized was significant before.
        
         | brmgb wrote:
         | Mostly oil fields which are not or improperly flaring or gaz
         | infrastructure which are leaking. Can also be landfills where
         | decomposition create methane but still mostly the oil industry.
         | For "normal" emitters, you can add to that cattle farms.
        
       | idlewords wrote:
       | I feel attacked.
        
       | tomrod wrote:
       | Though they aren't the only ones mentioned in the article, I love
       | the work GHGSat is doing! If anyone from there reads here, would
       | love to connect. https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomaseroderick/
        
       | schnuri wrote:
       | I'd love to see a list of the largest emitters.
        
         | IAmGraydon wrote:
         | I agree - it would be great if the data was public. I'm sure a
         | large amount of this comes from natural gas flares.
        
           | dsukhin wrote:
           | The data is indeed public [0]. But beware, it's huge to
           | download; it's also available in a hosted/queryable interface
           | on Google Earth Engine [1].
           | 
           | [0] https://scihub.copernicus.eu/twiki/do/view/SciHubWebPorta
           | l/W...
           | 
           | [1] https://developers.google.com/earth-
           | engine/datasets/catalog/...
        
         | tlrss wrote:
         | You might be interested in Climate TRACE. They produce a global
         | inventory, identifying the largest individual sources of
         | emissions, and publish it CC-BY -
         | https://climatetrace.org/downloads
        
       | codethief wrote:
       | So how much of the yearly methane emissions do the super-emitters
       | account for and how much do they emit in absolute numbers? The
       | article seems to be lacking the most interesting information...
        
         | bArray wrote:
         | Exactly. There's a good chance that climate change efforts are
         | far better targetted at super emitters. We have limited
         | resources and these are relatively low-hanging fruit.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-05 23:00 UTC)