[HN Gopher] Was Y Combinator worth it?
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       Was Y Combinator worth it?
        
       Author : mitchpatin
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2023-08-10 20:41 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tableflow.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tableflow.com)
        
       | 1123581321 wrote:
       | Given the domain name, I was hoping to see some attempt to
       | quantify/aggregate multiple answers.
       | 
       | I think nearly any startup would benefit unless the founders
       | entered into business with a strong perspective and network.
        
         | pclmulqdq wrote:
         | I think the real question is whether the benefit is worth the
         | 10%. That's pretty expensive.
         | 
         | From a macchiavellian perspective, it does appear that the
         | benefits mostly attach to the founders (unless you are selling
         | products to startups) and the 10% attaches to the company,
         | which suggests that the optimal strategy post-YC may be to fail
         | and start another company.
         | 
         | Edit - Obviously I'm not suggesting killing a good company that
         | hits it big and gets a bunch of traction, but if your post-YC
         | company isn't in that position (and almost all of them aren't,
         | by the way, thanks to the risky nature of startups), you have
         | some very awkward math to do on whether to pivot or shut down.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | That is entirely dependent on how much you're leaving on the
           | table by failing. When gambling, it might make sense to quit
           | while you're up but that entirely depends on the expected
           | value of your next bet.
           | 
           | From a macchiavellian perspective, you also have to consider
           | how much benefit the founder would stand again from having a
           | more successful startup instead of failing.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | 90% of a big number is a lot better than 100% of a small
           | number. If you get benefit out of YC and your company has
           | momentum, killing it and starting fresh on your own is
           | absolutely not the best strategy.
        
       | te_chris wrote:
       | Given it's a corporate blog and YC will still be on the cap,
       | what's the point of the leading question?
        
       | electricduck wrote:
       | You know, I've been reading Hacker News for god-knows-how-long,
       | and it never occurred to me to look up what Y Combinator even
       | was.
        
         | downWidOutaFite wrote:
         | Our Eternal September has arrived.
        
         | TheRealSteel wrote:
         | Same!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | joshxyz wrote:
         | thats what i love about hn.
         | 
         | i sometimes think yc is just a front to secure payment for hn
         | servers for many many years.
        
           | colechristensen wrote:
           | Isn't it just like... a couple of servers? As in, entirely
           | fundable by one person who could afford the time to moderate.
        
             | tomwojcik wrote:
             | 2 machines https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16076041
        
             | mcpeepants wrote:
             | many, many, many years
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | It's a rounding error in some of the budgets that
               | startups deal with. It becomes closer to the situation
               | with the Long Now, which is a clock to last 10,000 years.
               | With LLMs, even the moderation becomes an fixture in the
               | project that can endure. With Solar and a GPU and some
               | Internet.
        
               | nkingsy wrote:
               | llm moderation, what could go wrong
        
         | fasterik wrote:
         | You mean this isn't a website for lambda calculus enthusiasts?
        
           | aatd86 wrote:
           | Wait... This is not lambda-the-ultimate?
           | 
           | Where am I?
        
             | mrwnmonm wrote:
             | Why combinator, Y?
        
               | btown wrote:
               | Why the lucky combinator
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | not so loud, you're gonna hug it to death
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | momothereal wrote:
         | I feel like I used to see a lot more Launch HN, Y Combinator
         | batches, etc. Or maybe I started tuning them out
        
           | dalbasal wrote:
           | No... I'm pretty sure he isn't near as interested in yc
           | anymore.
        
       | thallavajhula wrote:
       | >So, for us YC was a no-brainer.
       | 
       | Saved you a click.
       | 
       | If the general consensus is that YC is worth it, then why bother
       | publish something to state the obvious. I'd be more interested in
       | cases or scenarios where the founders felt YC wasn't worth it,
       | which I believe would be very low or non-existent.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | > which I believe would be very low or non-existent
         | 
         | Only because your sample size are people who've attended YC.
         | 
         | Ask all startups whether they think YC is worth it and the
         | percentage will be significantly higher. Because if you're an
         | experienced founder then the benefits versus dilution equation
         | will be far different than someone who is straight out of
         | college.
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | the rationale is relevant. if you are interested in the inverse
         | cases, you look at the reasons and assume the opposite.
        
       | PrimeMcFly wrote:
       | Y Combinator is for established businesses, right? Not just
       | business plans?
        
         | leetrout wrote:
         | They fund both but not much on these business plans unless the
         | team is connected or credentialed from what I can tell
        
       | cameroncooper wrote:
       | Yes, I think YC is almost always worth it. Even as a founder who
       | has raised VC and exited previously I found it to be worthwhile.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | This is simply not true.
         | 
         | The optimum path for all startups is to either bootstrap
         | entirely or bootstrap up until the Series A where your
         | negotiation position is the strongest because you know your
         | unit economics and can demonstrate clear product-market fit.
         | 
         | Of course many startups may simply not be able to bootstrap.
         | But equally there are many startups who could but choose the
         | YC/VC track because of cargo culting, naivety or ignorance of
         | all of the issues that it comes with e.g. dilution and the low
         | percentage of startups making it to Series-A.
         | 
         | I would argue that most founders instead of emulating Stripe,
         | Airbnb etc should look to florists, bakeries, ecommerce sites
         | etc and learn the fundamentals for growing a business in a
         | cost-effective and sustainable way. And then decide after they
         | have a successful lifestyle business whether YC/VC will take
         | them to the next level.
        
           | brianwawok wrote:
           | * * *
        
       | elaus wrote:
       | What a curious product: CSV import as a service (or hosted on
       | premise). Would love to know where they pivoted from (according
       | to the blog post).
        
         | mitchpatin wrote:
         | We actually pivoted multiple times:
         | 
         | 1. We applied to YC and initially started work on what we
         | referred to as "data-stack-as-a-service". The premise was to
         | provision, configure, and maintain the different components
         | required for a data stack: Data Warehouse, Integrations,
         | Transformations, Visualizations, etc. We had a working product
         | and a few paying customers. Ultimately we decided to pivot as
         | we felt the market for this was only small companies with small
         | budgets (many of whom might not even need a mature data stack).
         | 
         | 2. Then we released a small open-source tool for Postgres that
         | could easily send webhook notifications when data was changed
         | (pg triggers sent websocket messages to a Go application). Off
         | of this we dove deeper into database tooling and building a
         | platform that offered branching, change management, and other
         | modern features for Postgres. We also had a prototype and
         | slightly larger contracts with a few early customers here. We
         | decided to pivot from this for a few reasons, but ultimately we
         | lost conviction in the idea and were more excited about data
         | import challenges that came up during user interviews.
         | 
         | 3. As you mentioned, we're now working on CSV import as a
         | service. After building and maintaining CSV import tools many
         | times ourselves, we believe there's an opportunity to provide a
         | robust, pre-built experience. There are actually a few other
         | products in the market today. Our initial focus is to be the
         | most developer-friendly choice (a big part of why we're open
         | source). We want the decision to leverage an existing service
         | to be a no-brainer for any engineering team tasked with
         | supporting CSV import.
        
         | benzible wrote:
         | Not all that curious... https://flatfile.com
         | 
         | If you're building a vertical SaaS and want to support import
         | from a file, and don't want to spend time reinventing the
         | wheel, this could be a big win. This would let new users bring
         | in existing data from another SaaS (that supports CSV export)
         | or where the incumbent is likely to be Excel. The development
         | time it would take to make something like this solid, usable,
         | and flexible enough to handle different formats would, in most
         | cases, be better spent on building domain-specific
         | functionality.
        
           | reneherse wrote:
           | That use case perfectly describes the needs of the SAAS
           | product my team is building. We have tons of domain specific
           | features we want to build, and anything that frees up dev
           | time for that work gets a look.
           | 
           | While I haven't yet seen the pricing for your link or the OP,
           | this seems like a case where there aren't many negative
           | tradeoffs.
        
           | nda_dontask wrote:
           | [dead]
        
         | mks wrote:
         | There's so much more to CSV file import than just uploading and
         | parsing - service like this can become backbone of any
         | enterprise data exchange pipeline. For real mission critical
         | use cases you need features like being able to ingest multiple
         | gigabyte sized files reliably, quickly revert the import or
         | switch to a specific version, detecting errors and recovering
         | from partially corrupted files, detecting the new version is
         | available, possibly importing just changes, publishing metrics
         | on imported files to observability platforms, alerting if
         | anything goes wrong...
         | 
         | If CSV import is not enough of a product (I believe it is) you
         | can add exporting functionality (e.g. export this table to CSV
         | and deliver to SFTP exactly once, but make sure to handle
         | target downtimes) and you have an "Enterprise File Gateway"
         | that could reduce development costs in many companies.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | > We, however, were not in this position. Eric and I still had
       | full-time jobs when we were accepted. While we had been meeting
       | regularly for a few months to discuss different ideas, we had
       | absolutely zero traction, no working product, and very little
       | validation.
       | 
       | This is the key part IMO. It's easy to give up 10% of what is
       | essentially an idea in your head in exchange for $500K and some
       | legitimacy from a big brand. That is exactly how an "accelerator"
       | is supposed to work. If you have spent time (sometimes years of
       | your life) and significant money actually building a product,
       | finding a market fit and gathering customers, YC's terms will
       | likely be much harder to swallow.
        
         | waithuh wrote:
         | YC did so well because they never really asked for the
         | qualifications other investors did and put an end to potential
         | founders deciding that its not worth it/procrastinating
        
       | mathewpregasen wrote:
       | was a great experience for me, even with the pandemic sabotaging
       | our demo day last minute
        
       | williamstein wrote:
       | Answer: "So, for us YC was a no-brainer."
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | ...because """
         | 
         | - we were in a bad place and, while a start-up in a good place
         | could raise more than YC's $500k in exchange for 10% of the
         | business, we couldn't.
         | 
         | - we gained access to the knowledgebase that YC built of all
         | the problems (incorporating, tax filing, banking, HR systems,
         | etc.) and, for anything not in the KB, you can use their legal
         | team.
         | 
         | - attaching the YC brand to your name adds legitimacy
         | 
         | - we forged strong friendships with many of our batchmates. We
         | continue to meet on a regular basis to share updates, ideas,
         | and provide support to each other. Having other people that can
         | listen and empathize with the challenges you're experiencing
         | goes a long way.
         | 
         | """
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-10 23:00 UTC)