[HN Gopher] Theory of interstellar trade (1978) [pdf]
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Theory of interstellar trade (1978) [pdf]
Author : mooreds
Score : 107 points
Date : 2023-08-16 16:45 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.princeton.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.princeton.edu)
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| Charles Stross has written at least two full-length novels that
| are, at their core, about interstellar economics:
|
| - Neptune's Brood
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune%27s_Brood)
|
| - Singularity Sky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_Sky)
| neaden wrote:
| And note that Krugman and Stross are friends, or at least
| friendly with eachother. Stross has referenced this paper and
| Krugman has talked positivly about both those novels and the
| Merchant Princes, which is about a group of people who can
| travel between parallel worlds and make money doing so. They
| have also appeared on panels together at conventions.
| zabzonk wrote:
| also the weirdo cordwainer smith novel "the planet buyer" with
| its concepts of how near money is to earth.
|
| https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/smithcordwainer-boywhoboughtolde...
| ur-whale wrote:
| [flagged]
| twiddling wrote:
| All part of the great conspiracy of course...
| pjdesno wrote:
| To understand the bogus funding acknowledgement, it helps to
| remember that this was written during the era of Proxmire's
| Golden Fleece awards, which picked random government-funded
| academic researchers and held them up for public ridicule based
| on highly slanted and selective descriptions of their research.
| throw0101b wrote:
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece_Award
| dmbche wrote:
| "National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) funded project by
| psychologist Harris Rubin for $121,000, on developing "some
| objective evidence concerning marijuana's effect on sexual
| arousal by exposing groups of male pot-smokers to
| pornographic films and measuring their responses by means of
| sensors attached to their penises".[26][27]"
|
| One of the prize winners
| Forge36 wrote:
| "Only Difference Between Screwing Around and Science Is
| Writing It down" - Myth Busters
|
| Edit: I originally misquoted. A quick search corrected what
| I'd misremembered.
| nemo8551 wrote:
| That's tremendous, can you imagine the initial
| conversations?
| olddustytrail wrote:
| I suspect the initial conversation was along the lines
| of, "holy shit Harris are you fucking with me? You can
| get money for this?! Dude!"
| coldacid wrote:
| I'd be even more interested in how the initial
| conversations about the alcoholic sunfish were like.
| wannabebarista wrote:
| I wrote about this article a few years ago [0]. It's a fun read,
| but I'm still not entirely convinced by its critique. Here was my
| conclusion at the time: At its worst, this article is the amusing
| grumblings of a disgruntled researcher; at its best, it's an
| interesting take on methodology.
|
| This was one of my favorite papers I've found through Fermat's
| Library [1].
|
| [0] https://bcmullins.github.io/top-articles-2020/#the-theory-
| of...
|
| [1] https://fermatslibrary.com/journal_club
| fsckboy wrote:
| I admit I didn't RTFA but please, _Hypothesis_ of interstellar
| trade.
| bluGill wrote:
| No, this is an actual theory. That interstellar trade between
| humans isn't likely ever (even at the speed of light it takes
| too long), that doesn't mean we can't make theories about how
| it would work. This is based off of basic economics theory.
| fsckboy wrote:
| till it's tested, it's a hypothesis. Hypotheses are not
| random ideas, they need to incorporate all the theoretical
| knowledge you have so they are not disproven a priori. Then
| your hypothesis is "according to theory" and incorporating
| the previously unexplained data, but it will not be a theory
| till the predictions it makes are tested.
| gnulinux wrote:
| > I admit I didn't RTFA but please, Hypothesis of interstellar
| trade.
|
| This is a very interesting comment because it tries to nitpick
| the difference between "hypothesis" and "theory" without either
| understanding the difference, or checking which one applies to
| OP. A theory is a logical framework with initial assumptions
| (axioms) and rules of inference. If one creates a model for
| interstellar trade and discusses its assumptions/implications
| it is then a theory. I don't know what "hypothesis of
| interstellar trade" would even mean. This would be like seeing
| "Group Theory" and saying it should be "Group Hypothesis"... It
| doesn't seem clear to me what you're implying the article may
| even be about.
|
| I _know_ that many people will consider this comment snarky,
| but I truly think one of the issues in human communication is
| attempting nitpick something without comprehensively
| understanding it. Human communication is flexible, nebulous and
| ambiguous. Nitpicking communication willy-nilly does more harm
| than good, imho.
| fsckboy wrote:
| a theory explains all the data you have gathered, including
| tests that the theory predicted. When you collect data that
| the theory fails to explain, you look for a hypothesis that
| makes some predictions that you could test. If the new data
| you collect is according to your hypothesis, then your
| hypothesis is on the way to being part of the theory.
|
| stop calling an earnest effort to choose the right word
| "nitpicking".
|
| If our theories of matter, energy, space-time and relativity
| rule out the hypothesis for interstellar trade, that is not a
| theory of interstellar trade.
|
| methinks you are guilty of the problem I was pointing out?
| creer wrote:
| Charles Stross, Neptune's Brood, 2013 gives us an exhuberant and
| ambitious tour of interstellar finance and fraud when the speed
| of light is still the limit for data transmission and
| interstellar ships are massive commercial endeavors on a massive
| time scale involving a massive amount of debt.It's part 3 of
| Saturn's Children series but I don't remember it being necessary
| to have read the first two.
| brazzy wrote:
| What's part two then? Bit Rot is just a short story.
| creer wrote:
| That is the one I noted as part 2. Yes a short story - now
| found online.
|
| Saturn's Children, 2008; Bit Rot, 2010; Neptune's Brood, 2013
|
| http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/06/short-
| st...
| OhMeadhbh wrote:
| Ha! Lol. I almost got kicked out of business school when I
| referenced this paper.
| hn8305823 wrote:
| This is without a doubt the most sensible thing I have ever read
| from Krugman.
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| "A solution if derived from economic theory, and two useless but
| true theorems are proved."
|
| What more can you want from a paper?
| mcguire wrote:
| "Among the authors that have not pointed this out are Ohlin and
| Samuelson."
|
| This is a thing of beauty.
|
| "In fact, I will assume that investors, human or otherwise, are
| able to make perfect forecasts of prices over indefinite
| periods."
|
| I'm crying here.
|
| Figure II is indeed puzzling.
| netsharc wrote:
| "It should be noted that, while the subject of this paper is
| silly, the analysis actually does make sense. This paper, then,
| is a serious analysis of a ridiculous subject, which is of
| course the opposite of what is usual in economics."
| bloopernova wrote:
| That's great, it sounds almost like a Pratchett Discworld
| footnote.
| aperrien wrote:
| Is there a similar economics paper on interplanetary trade? The
| abstract seems to mention one.
| FrustratedMonky wrote:
| >"A solution is derived from economic theory, and two useless but
| true theorems are proved".
|
| Nice.
|
| Any idea if this has been used in a video game? maybe like Eve?
| PeterCorless wrote:
| There was a better take on interstellar trade in the Traveller
| boxed set. And it relied on FTL travel to make any sense.
| whartung wrote:
| Well in the context of the paper, the fact that the
| interstellar drive in Traveller manages to avoid the
| relativistic affects of lightspeed travel makes things much
| easier.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| some discussion from 3 years ago:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25592285
| dang wrote:
| Thanks! Macroexpanded:
|
| _The Theory of Interstellar Trade (Paper) [pdf]_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834636 - Jan 2022 (1
| comment)
|
| _The Theory of Interstellar Trade (1978)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25592285 - Dec 2020 (103
| comments)
|
| _The Theory of Interstellar Trade_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25548440 - Dec 2020 (2
| comments)
|
| _The Theory of Interstellar Trade_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18216631 - Oct 2018 (1
| comment)
|
| _The Theory of Interstellar Trade_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17534950 - July 2018 (180
| comments)
|
| _The Theory of Interstellar Trade (1978)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13064504 - Nov 2016 (47
| comments)
|
| _The Theory of Interstellar Trade (1978) [pdf]_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8937197 - Jan 2015 (57
| comments)
|
| _Krugman's Theory of Interstellar Trade_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6632381 - Oct 2013 (82
| comments)
|
| _The Theory of Interstellar Trade, Paul Krugman (1978)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=818706 - Sept 2009 (6
| comments)
| shekispeaks wrote:
| OMG somebody just listened to the OddLots podcast. We are all
| sheeple.
| savrajsingh wrote:
| this is the kind of thing that, I wish chatgpt could ocr, read
| and summarize
| kitanata wrote:
| [flagged]
| mooreds wrote:
| I heard about this from this Odd Lots podcast:
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-11/paul-krug...
| throw0101b wrote:
| Audio:
|
| * https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/paul-krugman-on-
| ufos-a...
|
| * https://omny.fm/shows/odd-lots/paul-krugman-on-ufos-ai-
| and-r...
|
| * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZFzKswRLBQ
|
| The paper comes up in the first ten minutes.
| cwebberops wrote:
| I was commenting in the Discord that this is where this had to
| have come from.
| shekispeaks wrote:
| We are all sheeple.
| wills_forward wrote:
| Great podcast
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(page generated 2023-08-16 23:00 UTC)