[HN Gopher] All of the vehicle license plates available in America
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       All of the vehicle license plates available in America
        
       Author : jonathanmkeegan
       Score  : 138 points
       Date   : 2023-08-21 14:19 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.beautifulpublicdata.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.beautifulpublicdata.com)
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | > Yes, license plates are still made by cheap prison labor in
       | most states. 80% of all license plates issued in the U.S. today
       | were made by state prisoners, with only 12 states opting out of
       | the practice. According to a 2022 ACLU report on prison labor in
       | the U.S., many states offer no pay at all to prisoners, while the
       | average hourly wage across the country was between 13 and 52
       | cents per hour
       | 
       | So slavery's not dead, I guess.
        
         | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
         | If this is "slavery"... why should anyone care? The idea that
         | they can be forced to work without pay bothers you, but that
         | they can be forced to live in a cage doesn't?
        
           | gambiting wrote:
           | Because literally no prisoner in the USA has been explicitly
           | sentenced to this. If you are in prison your sentence is
           | almost certainly restriction of your freedom for a period of
           | time, and not inprisonment + "being forced to work". The fact
           | that the prison system can benefit off of that should offend
           | you and you should be outraged that this is happening across
           | the country.
        
         | jdpedrie wrote:
         | "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a
         | punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly
         | convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place
         | subject to their jurisdiction."
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, _except_ as a
         | punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly
         | convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place
         | subject to their jurisdiction. " 13A
         | 
         | A. I guess I'm confused you ever thought it was dead.
         | 
         | B. The license plate programs are optional, and as I understand
         | it most work details are a desirable distraction from the all
         | encompassing boredom of prison life.
         | 
         | So I'm not sure it's anything but typing just to type to call
         | it slavery, knowing full damn well it is nothing like the
         | history you're tying it to.
        
           | msm_ wrote:
           | A: Easy mistake to make. Let's take google results for
           | "abolished slavery":
           | 
           | > When did slavery end around the world?
           | 
           | > After centuries of struggle, slavery was eventually
           | declared illegal at the global level in 1948 under the United
           | Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Mauritania
           | was the last country to officially abolish slavery, with a
           | presidential decree in 1981.
           | 
           | This is also what I was taught at school. Most people in my
           | European country probably know that "legal" slavery (for
           | example debt bondage) still happens in third world countries,
           | but I'm almost sure most don't realise slavery is legal in
           | the US too.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | When slavery was outlawed, they carved out a special exemption
         | for prisoners.
        
         | walthamstow wrote:
         | There's a reason Ava DuVernay's documentary is called 13th.
        
       | blamazon wrote:
       | Not sure if it's still this way but it used to be that in Georgia
       | if you got the "save wild dolphins" plate, the first two letters
       | of your plate would be 'EE' which is hilarious. (It's supposed to
       | sound like the noise dolphins make)
        
         | Mountain_Skies wrote:
         | The state tries to avoid plate number collisions by using
         | prefixes on specialty plates but pretty much every in-state
         | university president has plate number 1 with their school's
         | design. The governor and leaders of each chamber of the
         | legislature also get their own plate design with assigned
         | number 1.
        
       | MisterBastahrd wrote:
       | What I found interesting is that both Louisiana and California
       | put out strikingly similar license plates in 1993. Both had red
       | script at the top on a white background with dark blue lettering.
        
       | Zanni wrote:
       | I'm very much in favor of local governments raising additional
       | funds by selling cosmetic upgrades (rather than outsourcing
       | enforcement of speed limits to privately owned traffic cameras,
       | for instance).
        
       | lapcat wrote:
       | I searched for Wisconsin in the table and found that Maryland and
       | Pennsylvania have University of Wisconsin alumni plates, which I
       | found odd.
        
         | madcaptenor wrote:
         | The subset of this data set which is just out-of-state alumni
         | plates is interesting. Running through some midwestern
         | flagships:
         | 
         | - It looks like the states that have U of Michigan plates are
         | New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Texas, DC, North
         | Carolina, and Delaware. - Nobody has plates for the
         | universities of Illinois and Minnesota. - the only states with
         | Indiana University plates are New York and Tennessee. - you can
         | get Ohio State plates in Georgia, Virginia, Pennsylvania,
         | Maryland, South Carolina, Delaware.
         | 
         | My understanding is that states will only make a custom plate
         | if there are a certain number of buyers, so this is probably
         | some weird function of where alumni tend to live, where alumni
         | clubs are more active, and what those limits are in various
         | states. But it's very strange that you basically can't get
         | plates for those Midwestern flagship universities in the
         | Midwest.
         | 
         | Searching for Georgia (because it's where I live): - Alabama,
         | Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Texas have
         | University of Georgia plates. - Virginia, North Carolina,
         | Tennessee, Maryland, and South Carolina have Georgia Tech
         | plates.
         | 
         | Virginia and Maryland showing up for Georgia Tech is
         | interesting - perhaps engineers are likely to work for the
         | federal government or companies that are near DC because they
         | want proximity to the government?
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | Large universities have large alumni associations with local
         | chapters throughout the US. In states where custom plates are
         | easy to get, those associates will often ensure their
         | universities have their own plate designs.
         | 
         | It looks like the University of Florida has plates in at least
         | six different states besides its home state: FL, VA, TX, GA,
         | NC, MD, SC.
        
           | madcaptenor wrote:
           | That at least makes sense geographically!
        
           | tzs wrote:
           | A quick Google search suggests that there are 760 000 living
           | University of Indians alumni, 640 000 living University of
           | Michigan alumni, around 500 000 living University of
           | Wisconsin alumni, 450 000 living University of Florida
           | alumni, 350 000 living University of Georgia alumni, and 170
           | 000 living Georgia Tech alumni. I think that is all the
           | schools people have mentioned so far.
           | 
           | It does seem reasonable that most of those would have some
           | states, besides the home state of the university, with enough
           | of their alumni that a custom plate would be worthwhile.
           | 
           | My school (Caltech) only has 24 000 living alumni so probably
           | no custom plates for us in any state, even California. MIT
           | has around 150 000, so maybe there is hope that at one nerd
           | school gets a license plate somewhere. :-)
           | 
           | I wonder what the smallest group of people is that gets a
           | special plate in every US state?
           | 
           | There are around 780 000 ham radio licensees in the US and
           | every state offers ham radio plates, but I'm not sure that
           | counts as a special plate because in many states a ham plate
           | only differs from an ordinary plate in that the license
           | number is your ham radio callsign.
           | 
           | For example here in Washington normal plates are of the form
           | ABC1234. A ham callsign in the US is N letters, a single
           | digit, and M letters, which is called an NxM callsign. The
           | possible NxMs are 1x2, 2x1, 2x2, 1x3, and 2x3.
           | 
           | Someone looking at a ham plate would only know it is a ham
           | plate if they recognized it was an NxM that matches one of
           | the aforementioned NxMs. Anyone else would probably just
           | think the state ran out of ABC1234 numbers and started a new
           | format.
        
             | Kon-Peki wrote:
             | > I wonder what the smallest group of people is that gets a
             | special plate in every US state?
             | 
             | If I had to guess, it would be military in nature. Perhaps
             | the Congressional Medal of Honor? Less than 4000 have ever
             | been awarded.
             | 
             | But I just checked 3 different states and only 2 of them
             | offer a special plate for that. So you need something
             | _more_ common to have such a plate in every state.
        
             | madcaptenor wrote:
             | MIT is hard to search for because lots of states have a
             | "ducks unlimited" plate, but Maryland (which we've already
             | seen is plate-happy) has plates described as "Maryland -
             | MIT Club of Washington".
             | 
             | Re "nerd schools", there are five schools with "Technology"
             | in the name that have plates in their own states: Rochester
             | Institute of Technology (New York), Georgia Institute of
             | Technology, Florida Institute of Technology, Missouri
             | University of Science and Technology, Indiana Institute of
             | Technology. (Before doing this search I'd only heard of the
             | first two.)
        
             | singleshot_ wrote:
             | Governors?
        
           | lapcat wrote:
           | Well, Maryland is clearly just out of control with the
           | plates: https://www.beautifulpublicdata.com/content/images/si
           | ze/w160...
           | 
           | By the way, the majority of out-of-staters at UW are from
           | neighboring Minnesota (with tuition reciprocity) and Illinois
           | (the FIBs).
        
             | madcaptenor wrote:
             | I've never heard of FIBs but I just Googled it and see that
             | I correctly guessed what it means.
        
               | lapcat wrote:
               | ;-)
        
               | Kon-Peki wrote:
               | One of the top results in a web search (apparently FIP
               | and FIB are interchangeable):
               | 
               | > the Chicago Reader observed in a 1988 article titled
               | "Invasion of the FIPs: boom time in southwestern
               | Michigan." "One local newspaper estimates that Chicago-
               | area residents, all of them nonvoters, make up more than
               | half the area's taxpayers and pay more than 60 percent of
               | its local tax load.
               | 
               | Those inconsiderate jerks should stay home (or go
               | somewhere else). The locals really want to experience the
               | full cost of their town services.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/how-illinios-
               | became-fip...
        
       | ComputerGuru wrote:
       | So Illinois has St Louis Cardinals MLB plates, presumably for
       | downstate residents that relate to STL more than Chicago... I
       | guess in addition to being a question of state pride it's
       | probably also a matter of public safety that they _don't_ have
       | Green Bay Packers NFL plates for Lake and McHenry residents,
       | though!
        
         | madcaptenor wrote:
         | The other out-of-state MLB plates, if I've searched properly,
         | all make similar geographic sense: - Red Sox in CT and RI -
         | Mets, Yankees, Phillies in NJ (you can get Mets and Yankees
         | plates in New York but you can't get Phillies plates in
         | Pennsylvania) - Nationals in MD and VA
         | 
         | Also you can get Brooklyn Dodgers plates in New York but you
         | can't get Los Angeles Dodgers plates in California.
        
       | dhosek wrote:
       | I recently saw a car with an antique license plate on it.
       | 
       | It was a model that was popular among my high school classmates.
       | 
       | Time is a bitch, man.
        
       | bradleyjg wrote:
       | Currently a good 5% of license plates I see parked on the streets
       | of nyc are out of state paper licenses. Somehow I don't think
       | they are all newly purchased vehicles.
        
         | limitedfrom wrote:
         | Here's a good read about NYC's temporary license plate black
         | market: https://www.streetsblogprojects.org/ghost-tags-
         | part-1-the-de...
        
           | bradleyjg wrote:
           | I think they should civil forfeiture the cars.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | A few times in my life, I've lived near U.S. military bases.
         | That gives you a chance to see all kinds of license plates from
         | all around the world as people who live off-base are
         | transferred in and out.
         | 
         | Once when I lived in the desert, I had neighbors with plates
         | from Hawaii and Guam.
         | 
         | One neighbor had a German plate. Not on the front like some
         | chav adornment. But on the back as his legal plate.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | nickt wrote:
       | The geekiest book I own (according to my wife) is "Registration
       | Plates of the World" by Neil Parker [1] - there's an older
       | version on the IA [2].
       | 
       | Respect to the collectors club - the Automobile License Plate
       | Collectors Association [3].
       | 
       | Projects like this and the book are great at seeing a tiny slice
       | of another part of the country/world which you may never see.
       | Nice job!
       | 
       | [1] https://www.alpca.org/halloffame/neilparker/
       | 
       | [2] https://archive.org/details/registrationplat0000neil
       | 
       | [3] https://www.alpca.org/
        
       | jeron wrote:
       | I have the California Historic Vehicle plate on my NA Miata and I
       | love the way it looks on the car
        
       | aimor wrote:
       | Don't forget the Diplomatic plates
       | 
       | https://diplomacy.state.gov/items/diplomatic-license-plates/
       | https://i.etsystatic.com/12654735/r/il/dd7fb3/1754142363/il_...
       | 
       | Or Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, Northern Mariana, and the
       | Virgin Islands
       | 
       | Or the Native American Nations
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | Wikipedia has those:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of...
        
       | beardyw wrote:
       | Do they do NPR, number plate recognition, in the US. There is a
       | lot of it in the UK, in fact I think average speed checks are
       | based on them. I would have thought it would be hard with all
       | that decoration.
        
         | blamazon wrote:
         | We call it ALPR - Automatic License Plate Recognition and it is
         | both controversial and omnipresent. Average speed checks are
         | not a thing here, ALPR is used primarily for toll collection
         | ("pay by plate") and secondarily for law enforcement and asset
         | reposession. (If you drive with a suspended license or don't
         | pay a car loan, a mobile ALPR may bust you) Most plates are
         | still legible to these systems despite the decorations - the
         | remainder are verified by hand for applications such as toll
         | processing.
         | 
         | People do stuff like obscuring the plate with a bike rack, a
         | magnetic leaf, tinted license plate cover, etc, but it's a
         | risky game to tempt the toll collector like that.
        
           | error503 wrote:
           | Parking enforcement too.
        
           | arethuza wrote:
           | There are average speed cameras on the A9 here in Scotland -
           | which I think have been a good thing given the reduction in
           | insane driving I've seen on what was already a very dangerous
           | road.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A9_road_(Scotland)
        
             | blamazon wrote:
             | I personally am a huge fan of average speed cameras and
             | think we should adopt them but that is a hugely unpopular
             | opinion here in the states... it would be career suicide
             | for a politician to campaign on that, quite possibly even
             | for the deadliest roads with the most insane drivers. (For
             | me, instantly thinking of the 'Robert Moses style' New York
             | state parkways [1])
             | 
             | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkways_in_New_York
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | It's easier to just use the beacons from the tires,
               | anyway. Doing it from cameras seems like going the hard
               | way.
               | 
               | When I lived in Texas, toll roads were just starting to
               | become fashionable. People worried that the toll tags
               | would be used to give speeding tickets, so a law was
               | written preventing police from using that data for that
               | purpose.
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | MagaMuffin wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | draw_down wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | Julesman wrote:
       | I saw a e-ink license place last week in LA. Anyone know what's
       | up with that? Seems kind of hackable.
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | Probably a reviver plate (https://reviver.com)
         | 
         | They're semicommon as a dealer add on to jack up car prices.
         | IIRC the hardwired version is on the CAN bus and both versions
         | let you set the slogan text from a list of preapproved phrases
         | in the app over Bluetooth. It would be fun to reverse engineer,
         | but not fun enough that I want to pay $400/year for it.
        
       | Ekaros wrote:
       | As coming from country with actually working IT, I always
       | wondered about those year and month tags... I get my yearly tax
       | directly as bill to my bank...
        
         | fps wrote:
         | It's to notify police to stop the car if they see it on the
         | road. The US has a lot of infrequently used or unused cars that
         | gradually transition to a sedentary life in a garage or yard.
         | It's not illegal to let your registration or inspection lapse
         | if the car isn't being driven. If you drive a car with a lapsed
         | registration or safety inspection sticker, police will notice,
         | stop you, and issue a ticket.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | Nothing prevents DMV and police having interconnected
           | database. Which would allow automatically communicating
           | vehicles removed from use or with lapsed MOT.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | That works fine if you live in a tiny country. But in the
             | United States there are tens of thousands of law
             | enforcement agencies authorized to write tickets. Some of
             | them are massive organizations like state highway patrols.
             | Others are towns of 200 people, or even individual schools
             | that don't have the time, money, or infrastructure to
             | integrate with a national system.
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | Sounds like perfect market for some SaaS. Pull relevant
               | information from everywhere and automate showing
               | failures.
        
               | jcrawfordor wrote:
               | Sure, but do we really want to encourage ubiquitous LPR
               | on every police vehicle? It's already becoming the norm
               | in some cities but that's not exactly an unmitigated
               | good.
        
             | fps wrote:
             | The US's anti-surveillance laws and sentiment keep
             | ubiquitous camera systems from existing in many places, and
             | keep the ones that do exist, quiet. In my state,
             | Massachusetts, traffic cameras legally cannot be used to
             | issue citations. Automated toll collection, which uses
             | highway mounted plate scanners, faced substantial backlash
             | from people for privacy reasons. And Massachusetts is one
             | of the least anti-government states in the country. If it
             | got out that the police were monitoring which cars were on
             | the road and how often they were driven, there would be
             | literal riots.
        
             | jcrawfordor wrote:
             | They do, the stickers are mostly to make it easier for cops
             | to see expired reg without having to type in every license
             | plate or have a vehicle fitted with LPR. They can also look
             | up the vehicle status in the DMV database, and via an
             | interstate compact.
        
             | WkndTriathlete wrote:
             | The tag is to indicate that the vehicle has paid the
             | appropriate taxes for using the roads. If the tax on the
             | vehicle is not paid then it should not be used on the
             | roads.
             | 
             | Without the tag there is no way to enforce that without the
             | police having to manually enter the plate number for every
             | vehicle they see. Hence the tag: if the police see a
             | vehicle without an up-to-date tag applied it is not legally
             | allowed to use the roads since the owner hasn't paid to
             | keep the roads maintained from the wear incurred by the
             | vehicle while driving on them.
             | 
             | There is an argument to be made that the police could
             | simply use a system that reads license plates up and checks
             | the information automatically, but there are so many 4th
             | amendment abuses/workarounds that the police already use
             | it's hard to imagine much public support for such a system.
        
               | ezfe wrote:
               | While I have no problem with the tag, your claim is
               | false:
               | 
               | > Without the tag there is no way to enforce that without
               | the police having to manually enter the plate number for
               | every vehicle they see.
               | 
               | Police have automatic systems that scan vehicles. I was
               | pulled over once due to an inconsistency in my vehicle
               | registration data (not anything visible on the
               | plate/exterior) because the computer in the police
               | vehicle flagged my car and they decided to follow up on
               | it.
               | 
               | In my case, it was just a quirk of the vehicle owner
               | being unlicensed to drive and there was no violation -
               | but the system correlated the DMV registration details
               | and license status of the owner and flagged the car.
        
               | fps wrote:
               | fast accurate plate scanners are relatively new. At most,
               | only on police cars for the past 10 or so years. Many
               | police cars still don't have them, only dedicated highway
               | patrol cars. The sticker system has been in place for
               | over 80 years. Systems that work, that are are generally
               | not difficult to implement stick around past when they're
               | technologically outdated.
        
             | ezfe wrote:
             | In Massachusetts they do, but we still use those stickers
             | as another form of labeling.
        
           | dmckeon wrote:
           | > It's not illegal to let your registration or inspection
           | lapse if the car isn't being driven.
           | 
           | True in many states, but California wants vehicles to have
           | valid registration even if the vehicle is not at all
           | operational. The owner gets a break on the cost, but
           | Sacramento still wants their due.
           | 
           | https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-
           | registration/vehicle-r...
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | Ontario Canada _finally_ did away with them.
         | 
         | Lots of people decry the loss of government revenue, but I'm
         | happy to see some red tape/bureaucracy cut down for the
         | consumer. I thought governments only did that for big business.
         | 
         | Would have made more sense to just increase gas tax by 0.1
         | cents/litre.
         | 
         | Tho you're still supposed to register for free online every
         | year or two, which I'm sure 90% of the population is going to
         | forget to do.
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | In lots of states, the annual fee is based on the age and
           | value of the vehicle, making it a somewhat progressive tax.
        
           | notatoad wrote:
           | >decry the loss of government revenue
           | 
           | you got rid of the registration stickers _and_ the fees?
           | 
           | in alberta they got rid of the stickers, but kept the annual
           | fees. and the private contractors who collect those fees.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | > you got rid of the registration stickers and the fees?
             | 
             | Correct.
             | 
             | (Though I always wondered why they just didn't make the
             | insurance companies send the stickers, or eu style where
             | you put your insurance slip in a little window packet)
        
           | zht wrote:
           | increase gas tax? from the government that spent a bunch of
           | money printing stickers decrying gas taxes, forcing private
           | businesses to use them, and then defending the practice in
           | court before having it struck down as unconstitutional?
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | They really are many law firms' best friend.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _As coming from country with actually working IT_
         | 
         | Which one is that?
        
         | ezfe wrote:
         | My car's tax is an annual bill, as you describe.
         | 
         | That's not what the tags are for though, the tags are
         | registration tags indicating your plate is active. In
         | Massachusetts, it's $30/yr for active registration and the
         | plate cannot be renewed without active insurance, etc.
         | 
         | So, if you fail to renew your insurance then you won't get a
         | new registration sticker and your plate will eventually be
         | easily identified as lapsed. The automated systems will see it
         | immediately - and they do! But we still apply the sticker for
         | manual identification.
        
           | deathanatos wrote:
           | > _In Massachusetts, it 's $30/yr for active registration_
           | 
           | ... plus the excise tax. (A variable-rate tax rather loosely
           | based on the value of the vehicle.)
        
       | rented_mule wrote:
       | On a long road trip last year, we logged all the plates we
       | noticed. That included all 50 states plus Guam, Puerto Rico,
       | federal government, and diplomatic plates. The article missed
       | those not issued by states. What we didn't expect, and what the
       | article also misses, is that we saw several distinct plate
       | designs issued by Native Americans. We saw them in multiple
       | states, but more in Oklahoma than anywhere else.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of...
        
       | manual89 wrote:
       | Too bad the plate cost data wasn't presented. Was wondering which
       | was the most expensive. In Oregon the cost varies pretty wildly,
       | and some don't have a renewal surcharge.
        
       | amatecha wrote:
       | Oohh, a lot of states have really cool plates for amateur radio
       | operators! Check out Alabama's[0] -- radio symbol and even morse
       | code "dits" and "dahs" -- seems they forgot to change the morse
       | code to something generic since they say "AL2C" at the top, which
       | is Alabama Bicentennial Amateur Radio Club's callsign, and ARL50
       | at the bottom, which I just found out apparently means "greetings
       | from amateur radio"[1])
       | 
       | [0] https://www.revenue.alabama.gov/wp-
       | content/uploads/2022/02/2...
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARRL_Numbered_Radiogram
        
       | geonnave wrote:
       | Where are the Mexican, Brazilian, Colombian license plates? I
       | mean, it's 2023 and people still talk about America when they
       | actually want to mean the US.
        
         | elAhmo wrote:
         | If you asked a Mexican or Colombian do they identify as an
         | American, what answer would you get?
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | I'll become worried about the issue when my Mexican, Canadian,
         | and Brazilian friends stop referring to people in the U. S. as
         | "Americans".
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Northwest Territories wins best plate every time.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of...
        
         | blamazon wrote:
         | > Awarded inaugural "Plate of the Year" for best new licence
         | plate of 1970 by the Automobile License Plate Collectors
         | Association.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | Second place seems to be missing from the site:
         | https://duischoolnv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Nevada-Au...
        
           | tremon wrote:
           | Ouch, that hurts. Did that designer fail to grok the Moebius
           | strip?
        
             | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
             | Perhaps it would be hard to paint that with different
             | colors on each side ...
        
       | acheron wrote:
       | Obvious when you think about it but this is just current plates
       | available for order, and lots of states (all?) let you keep old
       | plates around as long as you want and they don't fall apart or
       | something. Virginia used to have a few different "400th
       | anniversary" plates in the mid 00s (Jamestown was founded in
       | 1607), which I still see around regularly. I used to still see
       | the even older standard 6 character plates around too -- those
       | are mostly gone by now but every once in awhile one goes by.
        
       | mr-marbo wrote:
       | Didn't see mention of Delaware's (in)famous black plates:
       | 
       | > Delaware is the only state that allows private manufacture of
       | plates for legal registration purposes, and the only state to
       | have retained the famed porcelain plates in the modern era.
       | 
       | > Delaware ... remains the only state with non-standard size
       | plates in current use.
       | 
       | https://www.dmv.de.gov/About/history/index.shtml
       | 
       | Peek into the insanity:
       | 
       | https://www.dhptags.com/
       | 
       | https://www.lowdigittags.com/29.html
       | 
       | https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2022/10/28/d...
       | 
       | https://www.delmarvanow.com/story/news/2019/06/10/delaware-i...
        
         | clintonb wrote:
         | https://freakonomics.com/podcast/delaware-license-plates/
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | I work in automotive. It's annoying dealing with US to Europe
         | plates. I'm sure there is someone in the design dept that
         | really wanted to deal with Delware plates and now just drinks.
        
       | woodruffw wrote:
       | They need a new section for paper license plates[1].
       | 
       | [1]: https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-
       | ny/politics/2022/0...
        
       | alexwasserman wrote:
       | Finally a reason for a custom plate:
       | 
       | The explosion of full color images on special plates has also
       | created some concerns for law enforcement's use of Automated
       | License Plate Readers (ALPRs), which automatically scan the
       | plates of cars as they drive down the road or through tolls. Many
       | police cars are equipped with ALPRs that scoop up all of the
       | plates that drive by. A report by the American Association of
       | Motor Vehicle Administrators warned that high contrast
       | backgrounds in these special plates can cause readability issues
       | for ALPRs.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cratermoon wrote:
         | Also, with hundreds of legal variations, how can the police
         | keep track of them all? Counterfeiting a plate wouldn't require
         | a very exacting match, just close enough to fly under the
         | radar.
        
           | alexwasserman wrote:
           | Personally, it's all the other plate readers I care about
           | too. I'm more a privacy nut than trying to evade police
           | detection.
           | 
           | I'd imagine, as with so much, cops just outsource it to a
           | data broker type service. They feed the camera footage to a
           | third party API that spits back matched data. Either plate
           | info or human info. My data doesn't need to go into so many
           | tracking DBs.
           | 
           | No way so many small agencies can do anything themselves.
        
             | Reubachi wrote:
             | May I ask why your plate information being out there
             | concerns you? If it's 3rd party "plate readers" tracking
             | your travel, your vehicle is already sending telemetry data
             | outbound regardless, after you give the manufacturer 40
             | grand and you don't even get to pick which fancy picture
             | goes on your car.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | > your vehicle is already sending telemetry data outbound
               | regardless,
               | 
               | Not anymore, thanks to the 3G cutoff :P
        
               | alexwasserman wrote:
               | Nothing especially rational, although generally I like to
               | minimize what I can. If I can easily reduce one form of
               | data leak I will.
               | 
               | Your point is correct. There are many sources that we
               | each hemorrhage data from, and it's likely a lost battle.
               | 
               | Thinking a little more there are aspects of choice and
               | consent here. I know I bought a car with telemetry, a
               | cell modem in it, and a gps receiver, so it can be
               | tracked. I'm not willingly opting into continuous
               | surveillance by various third parties. It happens and
               | driving is worth more to me then my loss of data tantrum,
               | so I have a car and drive.
               | 
               | It's not all rational.
               | 
               | That said, I also have an older car with no electronic
               | monitoring and love it too.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | They don't care about the design, only the letters/numbers.
           | 
           | I've ported my plate numbers from design to design several
           | times in two states.
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | I see fake plates on an almost daily basis IN California (for
           | whatever reason the white on black look is pretty popular,and
           | not just with the Reviver plates).
           | 
           | Although fun fact - in California you can legally get a wrap
           | of your license plate instead of having to physically affix
           | one
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | Georgia reuses plate numbers, both on specialty plates and
           | when there's a new general issue of plates. The combination
           | of plate design and number/text is what is unique, meaning
           | scanners cannot work properly if they don't recognize the
           | design. In practice, it's common for violations to be
           | assigned to the wrong vehicle because of confusion over plate
           | design.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | andyjohnson0 wrote:
       | Ah so this is the _plates_ not the _numbers_. Just for moment I
       | was kind of confused...
       | 
       | I've always been surprised that there are so many licence plate
       | number formats in use across the US. And some of the plate
       | designs are pretty elaborate: I wonder to what extent they affect
       | readability at a distance?
        
         | mikhailfranco wrote:
         | Traffic cameras usually have to recalibrate for every single
         | one (e.g. for AI, retrain with new designs in the training
         | set).
         | 
         | In the future, I might expect designs (and fonts) to converge
         | towards AI legibility, but these plates raise money for states,
         | so that will provide a dampening effect.
         | 
         | I know at least one other country that has recently initiated a
         | program to redesign plates for AI legibility.
        
           | jefftk wrote:
           | _> I might expect designs (and fonts) to converge towards AI
           | legibility_
           | 
           | Why would you expect that? AI is getting more capable faster
           | than our legislative systems are likely to address something
           | like this.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | manufacturers of red-light cameras do not wonder, they have
         | quietly made fortunes in the past 20 years.. more recently
         | "mandatory license plate scanners at major bridges and toll
         | roads" it seems. _edit_
        
           | mikhailfranco wrote:
           | Most US states do not have red-light cameras, and some that
           | did, have withdrawn them. For example, see the Redflex
           | bribery case, and other legal challenges.
           | 
           | YMMV in other countries: some are packed full of red-light
           | and speed cameras, with phone-use detection expanding
           | rapidly.
           | 
           | Most toll systems use different tech (e.g RFID), reinforced
           | by plate readers to identify violators.
           | 
           | However, plate readers will always be a part of national
           | security, and certain local law enforcement tactics.
        
             | mistrial9 wrote:
             | rapidly multiplying red-light cameras at every major city
             | intersection here in California -- see San Diego County
             | technology plan and others. Zero discussion of withdrawing
             | any of them, quite the opposite -- "no public debate
             | evident." Roughly one-in-ten residents of the USA live in
             | California. Secondly, a trend of physical restriction for
             | entry, exit and travel of whole portions of counties, via
             | declaration of disaster from Sacramento.
        
             | Symbiote wrote:
             | Plenty of toll roads recognize number plates in Europe, but
             | it may well be that it's easier to implement this system
             | when there are typically only two or three plate designs
             | per country, and they're generally all pretty much the same
             | -- black letters on a white or yellow background.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_vehicle_registration
             | _...
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | US plates aren't expected to be readable (like they are in
         | Europe).
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | It probably is largely familiarity, but I find them all a lot
         | harder to read than European numberplates, at any distance. The
         | font (family), colouring, spacing, etc.
         | 
         | Sometimes when they're in a film or something and seem
         | significant (the shot hovers on it, or zooms in on it or
         | something) I've had to pause or go back to read it.
        
       | callumprentice wrote:
       | A few years ago, I set out to take a snapshot of a plate from
       | every state. My rules were that I had to take it personally, it
       | had to be a regular set of numbers and letters for that state -
       | no vanities - and I had to be able to clearly see the whole
       | thing.
       | 
       | I'm down to 3 left to get - North Dakota, West Virginia and
       | Delaware. It's been more than a year since I caught the last one
       | (South Dakota) so I'm not sure I'll ever be done.
        
         | f154hfds wrote:
         | Go to the parking lot for Niagara Falls on the US side (Goat
         | Island I think it's called?). You should see all the plates
         | except for Alaska and Hawaii on an average day I think as well
         | as a decent number of Canadian provinces.
         | 
         | We were there about a month ago looking at plates and ran into
         | another family looking for plates while we were there!
        
           | callumprentice wrote:
           | Thank you but that's a bit far from me in SoCal.. I do see a
           | lot of out of state plates in shopping malls here for some
           | reason so one day, I plan to explore a couple.
        
           | achrono wrote:
           | Been to the Canadian side literally dozens of times, holidays
           | and weekdays, but by far it's Ontario, New York or New Jersey
           | repping most of 'em. A few Texas here and there, but never
           | something like Alabama. Always wondered why that's so.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | Yellowstone is the place to do this. You'll even see some
         | European plates (on motorcycles).
        
           | callumprentice wrote:
           | Interesting - thank you.
           | 
           | Near the top of my bucket list too.
        
       | dnissley wrote:
       | Interesting how many states offer out of state university plates.
       | E.g. New York and Tennessee both offer Indiana University plates
        
         | madcaptenor wrote:
         | And in that case, _only_ New York and Tennessee.
        
           | dnissley wrote:
           | Pennsylvania, Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina,
           | Maryland, and Deleware offer Purdue plates -- and that's just
           | looking up the universities I know well from growing up in
           | Indiana
        
       | Scoundreller wrote:
       | A relative had an immigrant colleague that was intrigued by
       | different US license plates.
       | 
       | One day their manager had one that had a new colour scheme that
       | he never saw before.
       | 
       | The intrigue overtook him and in a big group he had to ask how he
       | got this new beautiful plate. And how could he get one themself?
       | 
       | Turns out the state required you to "wear" this license plate
       | after your third DUI or something.
       | 
       | Oops.
       | 
       | Edit: looks like two states have these "whiskey plates" or "party
       | plates": https://www.tmj4.com/news/project-drive-sober/ohio-gets-
       | toug...
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | That's interesting. Ohio's party plates are similar to Oregon's
         | old yellow plates (which are still used for some niches,
         | including official vehicles). The red font is different, but
         | some of those party plates have very dark red numbers.
        
         | petepete wrote:
         | I wish we had something like this in the UK.
         | 
         | More than 6 points on your licence and you have to drive a
         | yellow car with a 1l engine or smaller.
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | Restricting vehicle size after a DUI would make a lot of
           | sense. Same for "novice" drivers licenses.
           | 
           | Lawmakers with poor understandings of physics think speed is
           | the only factor in energy.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | > Lawmakers with poor understandings of physics think speed
             | is the only factor in energy.
             | 
             | Given that v is squared in the equation, their
             | understanding of physics seems okay to me.
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | Half the mass = half the energy... co-efficient gonna co-
               | efficient.
               | 
               | (Tho I know some places do limit highway speeds for
               | novice licenses)
        
           | arethuza wrote:
           | Probably have to be something a lot smaller than 1l - how
           | about a Citroen Ami:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami_(electric_veh.
           | ..
           | 
           | I'm sure Citroen would do them in yellow for a bulk purchase?
        
         | namdnay wrote:
         | that's so ... american. the vehicle version of public mugshots
         | or perpwalk
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter>
        
           | spiderice wrote:
           | I'm just wondering why they're allowed to drive at all after
           | 3 DUIs.
        
             | calpaterson wrote:
             | I don't know about America but in the UK people don't get
             | their driving licence taken away that often, even if they
             | have hit 12 points (ie: racked up enough offences to
             | theoretically lose it). There is a lot of consideration as
             | to whether removing the driving licence will cause hardship
             | and defendants obviously usually argue that it will (with
             | some truth) so judges sometimes don't remove the licence.
             | 
             | Anecdotally, I feel like it's actually gotten less common
             | over the years. When I was a teenager I would meet adults
             | who were riding the bus because they'd had their licence
             | taken away. Often it would be for a 6 month period before
             | they could re-apply (without retaking the test). That
             | became less frequent at some point.
        
               | arethuza wrote:
               | I think there has been a huge cultural change in how
               | people regard drink driving - I'm old enough (50s) when i
               | was almost regarded as a subject for humour. Now I don't
               | know anyone who doesn't take it very seriously indeed -
               | particularly here in Scotland where the blood-alcohol
               | limits are quite a bit lower for driving than in the rest
               | of the UK.
        
               | runarberg wrote:
               | I feel a similar cultural change in Iceland, however in
               | USA I feel no such change, quite the contrary. Moving to
               | the USA was honestly a bit of a culture shock in
               | observing how commonplace the practice is. What was more
               | shocking is observing a practice of strategic drinking,
               | that is try to drink just the right amount to keep your
               | blood alcohol level at the legal limit. I've never seen
               | anything like that before I moved here.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | That will obviously vary quite a lot across a country the
               | size of America. Local to me, DUI is extremely frowned
               | upon.
               | 
               | But yes, it is somewhat common for people to have an idea
               | of what it takes to get to a BAC of 0.08%, because that
               | is the threshold at which you will be charged with DUI.
               | For many regular drinkers, they won't be impaired at
               | 0.08% and it takes less alcohol than you think to get
               | there. Especially with modern microbrew beers. Getting a
               | DUI will completely f*ck over your life, so if you like
               | to drink socially, you are very careful.
        
               | jdietrich wrote:
               | _> in the UK people don't get their driving licence taken
               | away that often_
               | 
               | In England and Wales, a drink-driving offence would
               | attract a minimum of a 12 month disqualification unless
               | there are very compelling mitigating factors. On a second
               | offence (or a serious first offence), you would usually
               | have to undergo a medical examination and re-take your
               | driving test to get your license back.
               | 
               | https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates
               | -co...
               | 
               | https://www.gov.uk/driving-
               | disqualifications/disqualificatio...
        
               | calpaterson wrote:
               | One in five continue to drive:
               | 
               | https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10304829
               | /Mo...
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | ....illegally. That's a problem of nearly non-existing
               | enforcement in the UK, not the toughness of law.
        
               | cosmodisk wrote:
               | In Lithuania the rules are fairly simple: fines up to a
               | certain level of intoxication.Criminal record, car
               | seizure,massive fine and lost licence if it goes above
               | certain limit. Also, one needs to take a driving test at
               | the end( after 2 or 3 years) if they want to drive again
               | and the examiners are known to apply every rule in the
               | book so they'd have hard time to pass.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | I would expect them to be in prison for 25 years or
             | something after 3rd one. You know like 3 strikes...
        
               | xmzx wrote:
               | [dead]
        
             | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
             | Good lawyers, basically. Either that or it's a small town
             | and they know the right people.
             | 
             | I know someone who was woken up by a State Trooper, fast
             | asleep in her vehicle on the side of the road, _with the
             | engine running_ so it was obvious that she fell asleep
             | while driving.
             | 
             | It was by far not her first DUI. I _assume_ that she lost
             | her license after that, but I do know that she kept
             | driving.
        
               | hiatus wrote:
               | > I know someone who was woken up by a State Trooper,
               | fast asleep in her vehicle on the side of the road, with
               | the engine running so it was obvious that she fell asleep
               | while driving.
               | 
               | It doesn't sound obvious to me. If it was cold out, you
               | would run the engine for heat for instance.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | It may not be obvious she was in fact driving, but it'll
               | get you a DUI charge every time. Hell, even if you're in
               | the back seat sleeping it off you're likely to get a
               | charge if you have the keys anywhere accessible (and
               | sometimes, even if you don't).
        
               | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
               | This is correct.
               | 
               | I also neglected to mention that the car wasn't neatly
               | pulled over onto the side of the road but had driven
               | itself into the ditch between the road and a field.
        
             | blamazon wrote:
             | In Mississippi, one of those two aforementioned states,
             | it's perfectly legal to drink and drive (with an open
             | container in your hand!) as long as you stay below 0.08
             | BAC.
             | 
             | (Nit: it's legal at a state level but municipalities and
             | counties are allowed to dictate more rules on drunk driving
             | - most don't, but YMMV)
        
               | cosmodisk wrote:
               | I suppose it still looks a little bit like this then:
               | https://youtu.be/2xcQIoh3FQQ
        
         | kevinventullo wrote:
         | So, did he end up getting the plate?
        
         | travisgriggs wrote:
         | I'm curious what others think of this? My own thoughts, is that
         | after one DUI you should just not get any plates at all.
         | Period.
         | 
         | It seems almost darkly comical that there would be a second and
         | then a third time, and that the punishment would be an altered
         | plate color?? Why not just put local graffiti artists to work,
         | and give them a free pass to keep the offenders car in a
         | constant state of "DUI" in scarlet letters.
        
           | pragma_x wrote:
           | As someone who read "The Scarlet Letter" in highschool, the
           | lesson I learned is that the state really should avoid
           | encouraging and supporting a culture of vigilantism and
           | ostrization. I for one don't think that lasting punishment*
           | for life are appropriate where addiction is likely the root
           | cause. But if the goal is just that, the laws should be
           | changed to do so more deliberately, rather than offload the
           | dirty work to the public.
           | 
           | Also, I can't decide if "whiskey plates" are useful in any
           | real way. As something that is socially stigmatizing, it's
           | really unclear what the social response (if anything) is
           | supposed to be. That said, I don't know of any PSA or public
           | decree what went along with the launch of such programs. Now
           | I'm just curious.
           | 
           | Hilariously, in Virginia, there are "Gadsden flag" ("don't
           | tread on me") plates that can resemble whiskey plates from
           | other states. So, across state lines, you have people
           | inadvertently diluting this "DUI driver on board" message all
           | while expressing a confused mess of other sentiments.
           | 
           | (* I should clarify this by saying that I'm all for one-time
           | penalties for doing the wrong thing, including removing
           | privileges. It's where we brush up against a person's rights,
           | forever, that I take issue with. To me, revoking a driver's
           | license for life is okay, but removing their sense of
           | personal safety and autonomy through crowdsourced abuse, is
           | not.)
        
             | ComputerGuru wrote:
             | > Also, I can't decide if "whiskey plates" are useful in
             | any real way
             | 
             | Whiskey plates give police permission to pull over the
             | (driver of the) vehicle and perform a sobriety test at any
             | time, without (additional) cause.
        
           | causality0 wrote:
           | Yes, if I took out my gun and fired randomly at a crowd I'm
           | never getting my carry permit back regardless of whether I
           | actually kill anyone. Fuck drunk drivers.
        
             | cratermoon wrote:
             | > never getting my carry permit back
             | 
             | 27 states don't require a permit. At all. Ponder that.
        
               | seanw444 wrote:
               | Most permitless carry states still issue permits. And
               | like the other commenter said, that doesn't absolve you
               | of responsibility for your actions. You're still probably
               | going to prison.
               | 
               | I've experienced the same amount of violent crime via
               | firearm after permitless carry, as before it: zero.
        
               | paulddraper wrote:
               | Dependant on your criminal history.
        
               | hiatus wrote:
               | What point are you trying to make here? You think in
               | states that don't require permits, the state cannot bar
               | that person from owning firearms? Obviously the person
               | you are responding to is referring states that issue
               | carry permits.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | causality0 wrote:
               | True but not relevant. I'm saying we apply a much more
               | lenient standard to people posing a threat to public
               | safety with a vehicle than we do to people posing a
               | threat to public safety via other means such as reckless
               | use of a firearm or a laser pointer.
        
           | runarberg wrote:
           | My opinion is that DUI should revoke your license. I know it
           | is common in Europe where first offenders loose their license
           | for a few months, and then it gets progressively longer.
           | 
           | The USA has IMO a terrible system which punishes DUI drivers
           | through the justice system regardless of if they caused any
           | harm. This leaves people with pretty shitty lives and
           | prevents people from calling the police on DUI drivers. They
           | can still drive shortly after though.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | I think in Europe you're a lot less likely to get charged
             | with a DUI.
             | 
             | Rare to see random checkpoints, and generally rare to have
             | non-automated "mobile" enforcement of traffic rules in
             | Europe (in my US, Canadian, French, German and Croatian
             | driving experience).
             | 
             | Heck, in France most collisions don't even involve police
             | while they're generally a mandatory report in US/Canada.
             | 
             | If you get a DUI in Europe, you were probably a bad driver
             | on top of being over the limit.
        
               | VK538FY wrote:
               | My anecdotal experience is the exact opposite! I'm from
               | some unpopular Canadian province and live in Switzerland.
               | Lots of random controls in CH. I watch a lot of French
               | television where they at least pretend to do the same in
               | France, sort of the Gendarmes de Clermont-Ferrand.
               | Anyway. I've also been a passenger in a car in Germany
               | and the driver was controlled randomly. Now, in my wasted
               | youth in a former capital of Canada, I wasn't once
               | controlled when I should have been.
        
             | Tarball10 wrote:
             | Revoking their license does not stop them from driving.
        
               | runarberg wrote:
               | It stops by far most people from driving. The ones who
               | are undeterred and keep on driving without a license are
               | then fair game for the criminal justice system.
               | 
               | Even if this minority gets away with continue driving
               | without a license and wont get punished, you still save
               | many lives by taking the vast majority of drunk drivers
               | off the road. That alone is worth it.
        
               | cratermoon wrote:
               | This is a good argument for having a robust and useful
               | public transportation system, as well as designing cities
               | to support such a system. Won't happen in the US in my
               | lifetime, but one can cream.
        
               | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
               | No, but it opens up the path to actual jail time, which
               | would get them off the road for good.
        
         | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
         | I'm concerned with the "in Ohio, first time OWI offenders are
         | required to stay in jail 3 days"...
         | 
         | Like, post-conviction? Or are they punishing before conviction
         | here? It's sort of fucked, considering that there are several
         | medical conditions commonly mistaken for drunk driving.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | > Turns out the state required you to "wear" this license plate
         | after your third DUI or something.
         | 
         | This doesn't make much sense because the license plate is
         | attached to the car, not the driver. Couldn't the manager just
         | drive his wife's or friend's car or something? What purpose
         | does the plate serve? "Warning everyone! A serial drink driver
         | might be in this car, but might not be, and if he's in it he
         | might be driving, or might not!" Totally useless. As someone
         | else mentioned, wouldn't it make more sense to permanently
         | revoke someone's license after 3 DUIs?
        
           | some_random wrote:
           | People usually drive their own car, and taking away someone's
           | license can be life destroying in most parts of the country.
        
             | woodruffw wrote:
             | This sounds like a good reason to pursue policies that make
             | taking away a license _not_ life destroying, rather than
             | pursuing policies that allow people to destroy lives by
             | continuing to drink-drive.
        
             | oakesm9 wrote:
             | Wait, is it not possible to get banned from driving in the
             | USA?
             | 
             | For comparison the drink driving penalties are here:
             | https://www.gov.uk/drink-driving-penalties
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | Effectively, not really. You can get your license pulled,
               | for a limited (but long) time. But just because you're no
               | longer permitted to drive doesn't mean you won't.
               | 
               | It's difficult to register your car when you don't have a
               | license, so then you usually stop registering your car
               | too. And it's hard to get car insurance if you don't have
               | an active license or a registered vehicle, so that's
               | another thing to skip.
               | 
               | If you get pulled over, and have no license, no
               | registration, and no insurance, but that's all that's
               | really wrong, you'll most likely get a ticket, probably
               | have your license suspended for longer, and might have
               | your car taken away, but won't likely be put in jail. So,
               | time to buy another cheap car, private party.
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | But you have to get caught first. USA is bigger on
               | pulling vehicles over for ??? reasons than most other
               | places.
               | 
               | I'm figuring in UK if you get a DUI, it's because you
               | were driving allll over the place or got into a 3am
               | collision.
        
               | msm_ wrote:
               | I don't get your point. Are you defending people driving
               | drunk in the USA because they are more likely to be
               | caught?
               | 
               | In my country it's also common to get caught after being
               | stopped for speeding or car malfunction (like missing
               | headlight), after a minor crash, by driving in a
               | suspicious way, or just during a random check (that
               | police is allowed to do). In total, around 450 drivers
               | out of 1000 are tested for drunk-driving every year. It's
               | one of the higher numbers in EU, so drunk drivers here
               | are also (hopefully) likely to be caught.
               | 
               | And the US DUI limit is _insane_ - 0.08% BAC. In my
               | country it 's 0.02% BAC and if you get caught you lose a
               | driving license for at least 6 months (with progressively
               | more severe consequences for higher violations, up to a
               | prison sentence, lifetime driving ban and losing your car
               | permanently).
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | Generally, the more likely you are to get away with an
               | offence, the steeper the penalty.
               | 
               | I can't speak for all EU countries, but I get the feeling
               | that traffic enforcement is a lower priority by EU police
               | than US/Canada.
               | 
               | Several hypothesized factors for this in EU: more
               | competency-based licensing, more regular technical
               | inspections of vehicles (so fewer missing headlights),
               | more automated enforcement (so fewer in-person controls),
               | less focus on revenue generation by police (again, fewer
               | in-person speed/mechanical controls), and most collisions
               | just being a matter of submitting paperwork to insurance
               | without police involvement. In Ontario Canada, police
               | interaction is mandatory if any injury, >$2k damage or
               | public property damage, so 99% of collisions, which is
               | far different than France at least.
               | 
               | So unless you have mobile alcohol checkpoints, even if
               | drink-driving happens at the same rate as elsewhere,
               | you're less likely to be caught in EU. And those that are
               | caught probably did something more significant at the
               | same time to warrant police attention.
               | 
               | But sounds like your country, testing 45% of drivers per
               | year, makes up for those several factors I brought up.
               | Doesn't seem to be the norm in my EU experience - I do
               | ~25% of my driving there.
               | 
               | 20 year old EU data on this on p. 21 here: https://road-
               | safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021...
        
               | 8zah6q7 wrote:
               | It is practically impossible unless one is in prison or
               | something. In the future it could be enforced with
               | biometrics authentication interlocks.
        
               | rascul wrote:
               | > Wait, is it not possible to get banned from driving in
               | the USA?
               | 
               | Yes, it is. I think the bar tends to be a little higher
               | though. Also there are often work exemptions.
        
             | ComputerGuru wrote:
             | Driving drunk can be life destroying in most parts of the
             | country.
        
           | coldpie wrote:
           | The theory is they'll just drive anyway without a license.
           | Plus in many/most parts of the US, a car is effectively
           | required to live, so removing one's ability to drive is a
           | seriously major punishment. The whiskey plate indicates to
           | other drivers that the car could be more dangerous than
           | expected, and yes, I think the shame is supposed to be a
           | component as well. It's harm reduction, not a perfect
           | solution.
           | 
           | I don't know if the theory works in practice.
        
             | gambiting wrote:
             | >>so removing one's ability to drive is a seriously major
             | punishment.
             | 
             | Being caught drunk driving 3(!!!) times is a seriously
             | major crime. I'm a strong advocate for a complete driving
             | ban after a single drunk driving episode, 3 is just crazy
             | to me. I get the argument that in US that basically makes
             | it impossible to get anywhere without a car but I don't
             | know - get a bicycle or something, literally anything is
             | preferable to letting these people on the road again.
        
               | haswell wrote:
               | Depending on location, a bicycle is not a viable
               | alternative. Driving is a condition of living if food is
               | 30 minutes of driving into town.
               | 
               | I'm am not advocating for lax DUI laws, but a driving ban
               | is the equivalent of house arrest or forced relocation
               | for some people/locations unless they have people who can
               | help them with transportation.
               | 
               | Moving to a city with public transit would provide the
               | most autonomy, but would also mean uprooting one's life,
               | leaving family behind, etc.
               | 
               | The total impact is indeed very harsh, even if it is
               | necessary for the safety of others.
        
           | mptest wrote:
           | You're right! We should make them wear a star or something to
           | indicate their specialness!
           | 
           | Joking aside I imagine taking licenses away are a big part of
           | it, but that doesn't stop them from driving, at least the
           | license plate warns the rest of us not to drive too close to
           | the guy.
        
             | civilitty wrote:
             | I was thinking a Scarlet Letter. Maybe "A" for Alcoholic?
        
               | vitaflo wrote:
               | "Whiskey" plates in MN all start with the letter W (this
               | why we call them whiskey plates). So there's your scarlet
               | letter.
        
           | gnopgnip wrote:
           | Typically part of the sentence is to require an ignition
           | interlock for multiple years. Driving a car without an
           | ignition interlock is a lifetime driving ban, plus up to two
           | additional years in prison. The details vary by state
           | 
           | The plate is there to shame the driver primarily and dissuade
           | them from DUI, secondarily so the police pay more attention
           | to them.
        
           | ojosilva wrote:
           | The median is 1.8 cars per household in the US, so I'd say,
           | from intuition and experience, that in these states the
           | targeted vehicle will be +95% of the time driven by the DUI
           | offender.
           | 
           | But it doesn't matter, because "whiskey plates" are just
           | plain wrong - they are a tongue-in-cheek, populist lawmaker's
           | kool-aid. As a deterrent whiskey plates work best for
           | conscious, god-fearing folk who rarely go over the limit.
           | Besides these types of public shaming schemes can also have
           | just the opposite effect, ie a university bro that looks cool
           | with that whiskey plate or by creating enduring self or
           | public confirmation that you are now that person the plate
           | says you are. Adequate punishment would be to combine fines
           | that are proportional to one's income, use tech like ignition
           | interlock devices and invest on the individual's
           | rehabilitation as a responsible driver, including
           | participating in social services and education programs,
           | among other ordinary measures.
           | 
           | Furthermore, permanently revoking a drivers license is a
           | serious punishment in a country where transportation/commute
           | is primarily done by car. Also not all DUI's are the same and
           | there's a principle of proportionality that always applies
           | when sentencing offenders. So strike-3-and-you're-done would
           | be very harsh for the great majority of DUI/DWI cases in the
           | US.
        
           | WkndTriathlete wrote:
           | In Minnesota drivers recovering from DUI revocation are
           | required to use the "whiskey" plates. (Incidentally the
           | license plate database is incomplete because it does not
           | include the Minnesota "whiskey" plate.)
           | 
           | While "whiskey" plates are on the vehicle police officers can
           | legally stop the driver of the vehicle for a impairment check
           | without cause (e.g. without any indications that the driver
           | is under the influence or any traffic violations.) The idea
           | is that the extra enforcement is incentive for the recovering
           | DUI driver to continue to drive safely and re-develop that
           | habit.
        
             | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
             | > While "whiskey" plates are on the vehicle police officers
             | can legally stop the driver of the vehicle
             | 
             | Not any more. They changed this part of the law a few years
             | ago. Probably around the same time that they (MN) began to
             | implement breathalyzer interlocks where you can't start or
             | drive the car if you're above a certain threshold.
             | 
             | However, I think that if you're pulled over and you have an
             | active DUI but are not driving a car with whiskey plates,
             | then it's an immediate loss of license.
        
         | schoen wrote:
         | I hired someone on Craigslist for something (I don't remember
         | now exactly what it was for) and he turned out to have a
         | breathalyzer interlock on his car, presumably ordered by a
         | judge or something after multiple DUIs. If I remember
         | correctly, he had to periodically blow into the tube while
         | driving. I don't think I had realized that was a thing before
         | that.
        
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