[HN Gopher] All of the vehicle license plates available in America ___________________________________________________________________ All of the vehicle license plates available in America Author : jonathanmkeegan Score : 138 points Date : 2023-08-21 14:19 UTC (8 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.beautifulpublicdata.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.beautifulpublicdata.com) | nunez wrote: | > Yes, license plates are still made by cheap prison labor in | most states. 80% of all license plates issued in the U.S. today | were made by state prisoners, with only 12 states opting out of | the practice. According to a 2022 ACLU report on prison labor in | the U.S., many states offer no pay at all to prisoners, while the | average hourly wage across the country was between 13 and 52 | cents per hour | | So slavery's not dead, I guess. | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: | If this is "slavery"... why should anyone care? The idea that | they can be forced to work without pay bothers you, but that | they can be forced to live in a cage doesn't? | gambiting wrote: | Because literally no prisoner in the USA has been explicitly | sentenced to this. If you are in prison your sentence is | almost certainly restriction of your freedom for a period of | time, and not inprisonment + "being forced to work". The fact | that the prison system can benefit off of that should offend | you and you should be outraged that this is happening across | the country. | jdpedrie wrote: | "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a | punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly | convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place | subject to their jurisdiction." | SV_BubbleTime wrote: | "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, _except_ as a | punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly | convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place | subject to their jurisdiction. " 13A | | A. I guess I'm confused you ever thought it was dead. | | B. The license plate programs are optional, and as I understand | it most work details are a desirable distraction from the all | encompassing boredom of prison life. | | So I'm not sure it's anything but typing just to type to call | it slavery, knowing full damn well it is nothing like the | history you're tying it to. | msm_ wrote: | A: Easy mistake to make. Let's take google results for | "abolished slavery": | | > When did slavery end around the world? | | > After centuries of struggle, slavery was eventually | declared illegal at the global level in 1948 under the United | Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Mauritania | was the last country to officially abolish slavery, with a | presidential decree in 1981. | | This is also what I was taught at school. Most people in my | European country probably know that "legal" slavery (for | example debt bondage) still happens in third world countries, | but I'm almost sure most don't realise slavery is legal in | the US too. | [deleted] | jedberg wrote: | When slavery was outlawed, they carved out a special exemption | for prisoners. | walthamstow wrote: | There's a reason Ava DuVernay's documentary is called 13th. | blamazon wrote: | Not sure if it's still this way but it used to be that in Georgia | if you got the "save wild dolphins" plate, the first two letters | of your plate would be 'EE' which is hilarious. (It's supposed to | sound like the noise dolphins make) | Mountain_Skies wrote: | The state tries to avoid plate number collisions by using | prefixes on specialty plates but pretty much every in-state | university president has plate number 1 with their school's | design. The governor and leaders of each chamber of the | legislature also get their own plate design with assigned | number 1. | MisterBastahrd wrote: | What I found interesting is that both Louisiana and California | put out strikingly similar license plates in 1993. Both had red | script at the top on a white background with dark blue lettering. | Zanni wrote: | I'm very much in favor of local governments raising additional | funds by selling cosmetic upgrades (rather than outsourcing | enforcement of speed limits to privately owned traffic cameras, | for instance). | lapcat wrote: | I searched for Wisconsin in the table and found that Maryland and | Pennsylvania have University of Wisconsin alumni plates, which I | found odd. | madcaptenor wrote: | The subset of this data set which is just out-of-state alumni | plates is interesting. Running through some midwestern | flagships: | | - It looks like the states that have U of Michigan plates are | New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Texas, DC, North | Carolina, and Delaware. - Nobody has plates for the | universities of Illinois and Minnesota. - the only states with | Indiana University plates are New York and Tennessee. - you can | get Ohio State plates in Georgia, Virginia, Pennsylvania, | Maryland, South Carolina, Delaware. | | My understanding is that states will only make a custom plate | if there are a certain number of buyers, so this is probably | some weird function of where alumni tend to live, where alumni | clubs are more active, and what those limits are in various | states. But it's very strange that you basically can't get | plates for those Midwestern flagship universities in the | Midwest. | | Searching for Georgia (because it's where I live): - Alabama, | Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Texas have | University of Georgia plates. - Virginia, North Carolina, | Tennessee, Maryland, and South Carolina have Georgia Tech | plates. | | Virginia and Maryland showing up for Georgia Tech is | interesting - perhaps engineers are likely to work for the | federal government or companies that are near DC because they | want proximity to the government? | js2 wrote: | Large universities have large alumni associations with local | chapters throughout the US. In states where custom plates are | easy to get, those associates will often ensure their | universities have their own plate designs. | | It looks like the University of Florida has plates in at least | six different states besides its home state: FL, VA, TX, GA, | NC, MD, SC. | madcaptenor wrote: | That at least makes sense geographically! | tzs wrote: | A quick Google search suggests that there are 760 000 living | University of Indians alumni, 640 000 living University of | Michigan alumni, around 500 000 living University of | Wisconsin alumni, 450 000 living University of Florida | alumni, 350 000 living University of Georgia alumni, and 170 | 000 living Georgia Tech alumni. I think that is all the | schools people have mentioned so far. | | It does seem reasonable that most of those would have some | states, besides the home state of the university, with enough | of their alumni that a custom plate would be worthwhile. | | My school (Caltech) only has 24 000 living alumni so probably | no custom plates for us in any state, even California. MIT | has around 150 000, so maybe there is hope that at one nerd | school gets a license plate somewhere. :-) | | I wonder what the smallest group of people is that gets a | special plate in every US state? | | There are around 780 000 ham radio licensees in the US and | every state offers ham radio plates, but I'm not sure that | counts as a special plate because in many states a ham plate | only differs from an ordinary plate in that the license | number is your ham radio callsign. | | For example here in Washington normal plates are of the form | ABC1234. A ham callsign in the US is N letters, a single | digit, and M letters, which is called an NxM callsign. The | possible NxMs are 1x2, 2x1, 2x2, 1x3, and 2x3. | | Someone looking at a ham plate would only know it is a ham | plate if they recognized it was an NxM that matches one of | the aforementioned NxMs. Anyone else would probably just | think the state ran out of ABC1234 numbers and started a new | format. | Kon-Peki wrote: | > I wonder what the smallest group of people is that gets a | special plate in every US state? | | If I had to guess, it would be military in nature. Perhaps | the Congressional Medal of Honor? Less than 4000 have ever | been awarded. | | But I just checked 3 different states and only 2 of them | offer a special plate for that. So you need something | _more_ common to have such a plate in every state. | madcaptenor wrote: | MIT is hard to search for because lots of states have a | "ducks unlimited" plate, but Maryland (which we've already | seen is plate-happy) has plates described as "Maryland - | MIT Club of Washington". | | Re "nerd schools", there are five schools with "Technology" | in the name that have plates in their own states: Rochester | Institute of Technology (New York), Georgia Institute of | Technology, Florida Institute of Technology, Missouri | University of Science and Technology, Indiana Institute of | Technology. (Before doing this search I'd only heard of the | first two.) | singleshot_ wrote: | Governors? | lapcat wrote: | Well, Maryland is clearly just out of control with the | plates: https://www.beautifulpublicdata.com/content/images/si | ze/w160... | | By the way, the majority of out-of-staters at UW are from | neighboring Minnesota (with tuition reciprocity) and Illinois | (the FIBs). | madcaptenor wrote: | I've never heard of FIBs but I just Googled it and see that | I correctly guessed what it means. | lapcat wrote: | ;-) | Kon-Peki wrote: | One of the top results in a web search (apparently FIP | and FIB are interchangeable): | | > the Chicago Reader observed in a 1988 article titled | "Invasion of the FIPs: boom time in southwestern | Michigan." "One local newspaper estimates that Chicago- | area residents, all of them nonvoters, make up more than | half the area's taxpayers and pay more than 60 percent of | its local tax load. | | Those inconsiderate jerks should stay home (or go | somewhere else). The locals really want to experience the | full cost of their town services. | | [1] https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/how-illinios- | became-fip... | ComputerGuru wrote: | So Illinois has St Louis Cardinals MLB plates, presumably for | downstate residents that relate to STL more than Chicago... I | guess in addition to being a question of state pride it's | probably also a matter of public safety that they _don't_ have | Green Bay Packers NFL plates for Lake and McHenry residents, | though! | madcaptenor wrote: | The other out-of-state MLB plates, if I've searched properly, | all make similar geographic sense: - Red Sox in CT and RI - | Mets, Yankees, Phillies in NJ (you can get Mets and Yankees | plates in New York but you can't get Phillies plates in | Pennsylvania) - Nationals in MD and VA | | Also you can get Brooklyn Dodgers plates in New York but you | can't get Los Angeles Dodgers plates in California. | dhosek wrote: | I recently saw a car with an antique license plate on it. | | It was a model that was popular among my high school classmates. | | Time is a bitch, man. | bradleyjg wrote: | Currently a good 5% of license plates I see parked on the streets | of nyc are out of state paper licenses. Somehow I don't think | they are all newly purchased vehicles. | limitedfrom wrote: | Here's a good read about NYC's temporary license plate black | market: https://www.streetsblogprojects.org/ghost-tags- | part-1-the-de... | bradleyjg wrote: | I think they should civil forfeiture the cars. | reaperducer wrote: | A few times in my life, I've lived near U.S. military bases. | That gives you a chance to see all kinds of license plates from | all around the world as people who live off-base are | transferred in and out. | | Once when I lived in the desert, I had neighbors with plates | from Hawaii and Guam. | | One neighbor had a German plate. Not on the front like some | chav adornment. But on the back as his legal plate. | [deleted] | nickt wrote: | The geekiest book I own (according to my wife) is "Registration | Plates of the World" by Neil Parker [1] - there's an older | version on the IA [2]. | | Respect to the collectors club - the Automobile License Plate | Collectors Association [3]. | | Projects like this and the book are great at seeing a tiny slice | of another part of the country/world which you may never see. | Nice job! | | [1] https://www.alpca.org/halloffame/neilparker/ | | [2] https://archive.org/details/registrationplat0000neil | | [3] https://www.alpca.org/ | jeron wrote: | I have the California Historic Vehicle plate on my NA Miata and I | love the way it looks on the car | aimor wrote: | Don't forget the Diplomatic plates | | https://diplomacy.state.gov/items/diplomatic-license-plates/ | https://i.etsystatic.com/12654735/r/il/dd7fb3/1754142363/il_... | | Or Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, Northern Mariana, and the | Virgin Islands | | Or the Native American Nations | omoikane wrote: | Wikipedia has those: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of... | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of... | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of... | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of... | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of... | beardyw wrote: | Do they do NPR, number plate recognition, in the US. There is a | lot of it in the UK, in fact I think average speed checks are | based on them. I would have thought it would be hard with all | that decoration. | blamazon wrote: | We call it ALPR - Automatic License Plate Recognition and it is | both controversial and omnipresent. Average speed checks are | not a thing here, ALPR is used primarily for toll collection | ("pay by plate") and secondarily for law enforcement and asset | reposession. (If you drive with a suspended license or don't | pay a car loan, a mobile ALPR may bust you) Most plates are | still legible to these systems despite the decorations - the | remainder are verified by hand for applications such as toll | processing. | | People do stuff like obscuring the plate with a bike rack, a | magnetic leaf, tinted license plate cover, etc, but it's a | risky game to tempt the toll collector like that. | error503 wrote: | Parking enforcement too. | arethuza wrote: | There are average speed cameras on the A9 here in Scotland - | which I think have been a good thing given the reduction in | insane driving I've seen on what was already a very dangerous | road. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A9_road_(Scotland) | blamazon wrote: | I personally am a huge fan of average speed cameras and | think we should adopt them but that is a hugely unpopular | opinion here in the states... it would be career suicide | for a politician to campaign on that, quite possibly even | for the deadliest roads with the most insane drivers. (For | me, instantly thinking of the 'Robert Moses style' New York | state parkways [1]) | | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkways_in_New_York | reaperducer wrote: | It's easier to just use the beacons from the tires, | anyway. Doing it from cameras seems like going the hard | way. | | When I lived in Texas, toll roads were just starting to | become fashionable. People worried that the toll tags | would be used to give speeding tickets, so a law was | written preventing police from using that data for that | purpose. | [deleted] | MagaMuffin wrote: | [dead] | draw_down wrote: | [dead] | Julesman wrote: | I saw a e-ink license place last week in LA. Anyone know what's | up with that? Seems kind of hackable. | Rebelgecko wrote: | Probably a reviver plate (https://reviver.com) | | They're semicommon as a dealer add on to jack up car prices. | IIRC the hardwired version is on the CAN bus and both versions | let you set the slogan text from a list of preapproved phrases | in the app over Bluetooth. It would be fun to reverse engineer, | but not fun enough that I want to pay $400/year for it. | Ekaros wrote: | As coming from country with actually working IT, I always | wondered about those year and month tags... I get my yearly tax | directly as bill to my bank... | fps wrote: | It's to notify police to stop the car if they see it on the | road. The US has a lot of infrequently used or unused cars that | gradually transition to a sedentary life in a garage or yard. | It's not illegal to let your registration or inspection lapse | if the car isn't being driven. If you drive a car with a lapsed | registration or safety inspection sticker, police will notice, | stop you, and issue a ticket. | [deleted] | Ekaros wrote: | Nothing prevents DMV and police having interconnected | database. Which would allow automatically communicating | vehicles removed from use or with lapsed MOT. | reaperducer wrote: | That works fine if you live in a tiny country. But in the | United States there are tens of thousands of law | enforcement agencies authorized to write tickets. Some of | them are massive organizations like state highway patrols. | Others are towns of 200 people, or even individual schools | that don't have the time, money, or infrastructure to | integrate with a national system. | Ekaros wrote: | Sounds like perfect market for some SaaS. Pull relevant | information from everywhere and automate showing | failures. | jcrawfordor wrote: | Sure, but do we really want to encourage ubiquitous LPR | on every police vehicle? It's already becoming the norm | in some cities but that's not exactly an unmitigated | good. | fps wrote: | The US's anti-surveillance laws and sentiment keep | ubiquitous camera systems from existing in many places, and | keep the ones that do exist, quiet. In my state, | Massachusetts, traffic cameras legally cannot be used to | issue citations. Automated toll collection, which uses | highway mounted plate scanners, faced substantial backlash | from people for privacy reasons. And Massachusetts is one | of the least anti-government states in the country. If it | got out that the police were monitoring which cars were on | the road and how often they were driven, there would be | literal riots. | jcrawfordor wrote: | They do, the stickers are mostly to make it easier for cops | to see expired reg without having to type in every license | plate or have a vehicle fitted with LPR. They can also look | up the vehicle status in the DMV database, and via an | interstate compact. | WkndTriathlete wrote: | The tag is to indicate that the vehicle has paid the | appropriate taxes for using the roads. If the tax on the | vehicle is not paid then it should not be used on the | roads. | | Without the tag there is no way to enforce that without the | police having to manually enter the plate number for every | vehicle they see. Hence the tag: if the police see a | vehicle without an up-to-date tag applied it is not legally | allowed to use the roads since the owner hasn't paid to | keep the roads maintained from the wear incurred by the | vehicle while driving on them. | | There is an argument to be made that the police could | simply use a system that reads license plates up and checks | the information automatically, but there are so many 4th | amendment abuses/workarounds that the police already use | it's hard to imagine much public support for such a system. | ezfe wrote: | While I have no problem with the tag, your claim is | false: | | > Without the tag there is no way to enforce that without | the police having to manually enter the plate number for | every vehicle they see. | | Police have automatic systems that scan vehicles. I was | pulled over once due to an inconsistency in my vehicle | registration data (not anything visible on the | plate/exterior) because the computer in the police | vehicle flagged my car and they decided to follow up on | it. | | In my case, it was just a quirk of the vehicle owner | being unlicensed to drive and there was no violation - | but the system correlated the DMV registration details | and license status of the owner and flagged the car. | fps wrote: | fast accurate plate scanners are relatively new. At most, | only on police cars for the past 10 or so years. Many | police cars still don't have them, only dedicated highway | patrol cars. The sticker system has been in place for | over 80 years. Systems that work, that are are generally | not difficult to implement stick around past when they're | technologically outdated. | ezfe wrote: | In Massachusetts they do, but we still use those stickers | as another form of labeling. | dmckeon wrote: | > It's not illegal to let your registration or inspection | lapse if the car isn't being driven. | | True in many states, but California wants vehicles to have | valid registration even if the vehicle is not at all | operational. The owner gets a break on the cost, but | Sacramento still wants their due. | | https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle- | registration/vehicle-r... | Scoundreller wrote: | Ontario Canada _finally_ did away with them. | | Lots of people decry the loss of government revenue, but I'm | happy to see some red tape/bureaucracy cut down for the | consumer. I thought governments only did that for big business. | | Would have made more sense to just increase gas tax by 0.1 | cents/litre. | | Tho you're still supposed to register for free online every | year or two, which I'm sure 90% of the population is going to | forget to do. | Mountain_Skies wrote: | In lots of states, the annual fee is based on the age and | value of the vehicle, making it a somewhat progressive tax. | notatoad wrote: | >decry the loss of government revenue | | you got rid of the registration stickers _and_ the fees? | | in alberta they got rid of the stickers, but kept the annual | fees. and the private contractors who collect those fees. | Scoundreller wrote: | > you got rid of the registration stickers and the fees? | | Correct. | | (Though I always wondered why they just didn't make the | insurance companies send the stickers, or eu style where | you put your insurance slip in a little window packet) | zht wrote: | increase gas tax? from the government that spent a bunch of | money printing stickers decrying gas taxes, forcing private | businesses to use them, and then defending the practice in | court before having it struck down as unconstitutional? | Scoundreller wrote: | They really are many law firms' best friend. | [deleted] | reaperducer wrote: | _As coming from country with actually working IT_ | | Which one is that? | ezfe wrote: | My car's tax is an annual bill, as you describe. | | That's not what the tags are for though, the tags are | registration tags indicating your plate is active. In | Massachusetts, it's $30/yr for active registration and the | plate cannot be renewed without active insurance, etc. | | So, if you fail to renew your insurance then you won't get a | new registration sticker and your plate will eventually be | easily identified as lapsed. The automated systems will see it | immediately - and they do! But we still apply the sticker for | manual identification. | deathanatos wrote: | > _In Massachusetts, it 's $30/yr for active registration_ | | ... plus the excise tax. (A variable-rate tax rather loosely | based on the value of the vehicle.) | rented_mule wrote: | On a long road trip last year, we logged all the plates we | noticed. That included all 50 states plus Guam, Puerto Rico, | federal government, and diplomatic plates. The article missed | those not issued by states. What we didn't expect, and what the | article also misses, is that we saw several distinct plate | designs issued by Native Americans. We saw them in multiple | states, but more in Oklahoma than anywhere else. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of... | manual89 wrote: | Too bad the plate cost data wasn't presented. Was wondering which | was the most expensive. In Oregon the cost varies pretty wildly, | and some don't have a renewal surcharge. | amatecha wrote: | Oohh, a lot of states have really cool plates for amateur radio | operators! Check out Alabama's[0] -- radio symbol and even morse | code "dits" and "dahs" -- seems they forgot to change the morse | code to something generic since they say "AL2C" at the top, which | is Alabama Bicentennial Amateur Radio Club's callsign, and ARL50 | at the bottom, which I just found out apparently means "greetings | from amateur radio"[1]) | | [0] https://www.revenue.alabama.gov/wp- | content/uploads/2022/02/2... | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARRL_Numbered_Radiogram | geonnave wrote: | Where are the Mexican, Brazilian, Colombian license plates? I | mean, it's 2023 and people still talk about America when they | actually want to mean the US. | elAhmo wrote: | If you asked a Mexican or Colombian do they identify as an | American, what answer would you get? | mikestew wrote: | I'll become worried about the issue when my Mexican, Canadian, | and Brazilian friends stop referring to people in the U. S. as | "Americans". | whalesalad wrote: | Northwest Territories wins best plate every time. | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of... | blamazon wrote: | > Awarded inaugural "Plate of the Year" for best new licence | plate of 1970 by the Automobile License Plate Collectors | Association. | reaperducer wrote: | Second place seems to be missing from the site: | https://duischoolnv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Nevada-Au... | tremon wrote: | Ouch, that hurts. Did that designer fail to grok the Moebius | strip? | B1FF_PSUVM wrote: | Perhaps it would be hard to paint that with different | colors on each side ... | acheron wrote: | Obvious when you think about it but this is just current plates | available for order, and lots of states (all?) let you keep old | plates around as long as you want and they don't fall apart or | something. Virginia used to have a few different "400th | anniversary" plates in the mid 00s (Jamestown was founded in | 1607), which I still see around regularly. I used to still see | the even older standard 6 character plates around too -- those | are mostly gone by now but every once in awhile one goes by. | mr-marbo wrote: | Didn't see mention of Delaware's (in)famous black plates: | | > Delaware is the only state that allows private manufacture of | plates for legal registration purposes, and the only state to | have retained the famed porcelain plates in the modern era. | | > Delaware ... remains the only state with non-standard size | plates in current use. | | https://www.dmv.de.gov/About/history/index.shtml | | Peek into the insanity: | | https://www.dhptags.com/ | | https://www.lowdigittags.com/29.html | | https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2022/10/28/d... | | https://www.delmarvanow.com/story/news/2019/06/10/delaware-i... | clintonb wrote: | https://freakonomics.com/podcast/delaware-license-plates/ | SV_BubbleTime wrote: | I work in automotive. It's annoying dealing with US to Europe | plates. I'm sure there is someone in the design dept that | really wanted to deal with Delware plates and now just drinks. | woodruffw wrote: | They need a new section for paper license plates[1]. | | [1]: https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central- | ny/politics/2022/0... | alexwasserman wrote: | Finally a reason for a custom plate: | | The explosion of full color images on special plates has also | created some concerns for law enforcement's use of Automated | License Plate Readers (ALPRs), which automatically scan the | plates of cars as they drive down the road or through tolls. Many | police cars are equipped with ALPRs that scoop up all of the | plates that drive by. A report by the American Association of | Motor Vehicle Administrators warned that high contrast | backgrounds in these special plates can cause readability issues | for ALPRs. | [deleted] | cratermoon wrote: | Also, with hundreds of legal variations, how can the police | keep track of them all? Counterfeiting a plate wouldn't require | a very exacting match, just close enough to fly under the | radar. | alexwasserman wrote: | Personally, it's all the other plate readers I care about | too. I'm more a privacy nut than trying to evade police | detection. | | I'd imagine, as with so much, cops just outsource it to a | data broker type service. They feed the camera footage to a | third party API that spits back matched data. Either plate | info or human info. My data doesn't need to go into so many | tracking DBs. | | No way so many small agencies can do anything themselves. | Reubachi wrote: | May I ask why your plate information being out there | concerns you? If it's 3rd party "plate readers" tracking | your travel, your vehicle is already sending telemetry data | outbound regardless, after you give the manufacturer 40 | grand and you don't even get to pick which fancy picture | goes on your car. | toast0 wrote: | > your vehicle is already sending telemetry data outbound | regardless, | | Not anymore, thanks to the 3G cutoff :P | alexwasserman wrote: | Nothing especially rational, although generally I like to | minimize what I can. If I can easily reduce one form of | data leak I will. | | Your point is correct. There are many sources that we | each hemorrhage data from, and it's likely a lost battle. | | Thinking a little more there are aspects of choice and | consent here. I know I bought a car with telemetry, a | cell modem in it, and a gps receiver, so it can be | tracked. I'm not willingly opting into continuous | surveillance by various third parties. It happens and | driving is worth more to me then my loss of data tantrum, | so I have a car and drive. | | It's not all rational. | | That said, I also have an older car with no electronic | monitoring and love it too. | reaperducer wrote: | They don't care about the design, only the letters/numbers. | | I've ported my plate numbers from design to design several | times in two states. | Rebelgecko wrote: | I see fake plates on an almost daily basis IN California (for | whatever reason the white on black look is pretty popular,and | not just with the Reviver plates). | | Although fun fact - in California you can legally get a wrap | of your license plate instead of having to physically affix | one | Mountain_Skies wrote: | Georgia reuses plate numbers, both on specialty plates and | when there's a new general issue of plates. The combination | of plate design and number/text is what is unique, meaning | scanners cannot work properly if they don't recognize the | design. In practice, it's common for violations to be | assigned to the wrong vehicle because of confusion over plate | design. | [deleted] | andyjohnson0 wrote: | Ah so this is the _plates_ not the _numbers_. Just for moment I | was kind of confused... | | I've always been surprised that there are so many licence plate | number formats in use across the US. And some of the plate | designs are pretty elaborate: I wonder to what extent they affect | readability at a distance? | mikhailfranco wrote: | Traffic cameras usually have to recalibrate for every single | one (e.g. for AI, retrain with new designs in the training | set). | | In the future, I might expect designs (and fonts) to converge | towards AI legibility, but these plates raise money for states, | so that will provide a dampening effect. | | I know at least one other country that has recently initiated a | program to redesign plates for AI legibility. | jefftk wrote: | _> I might expect designs (and fonts) to converge towards AI | legibility_ | | Why would you expect that? AI is getting more capable faster | than our legislative systems are likely to address something | like this. | mistrial9 wrote: | manufacturers of red-light cameras do not wonder, they have | quietly made fortunes in the past 20 years.. more recently | "mandatory license plate scanners at major bridges and toll | roads" it seems. _edit_ | mikhailfranco wrote: | Most US states do not have red-light cameras, and some that | did, have withdrawn them. For example, see the Redflex | bribery case, and other legal challenges. | | YMMV in other countries: some are packed full of red-light | and speed cameras, with phone-use detection expanding | rapidly. | | Most toll systems use different tech (e.g RFID), reinforced | by plate readers to identify violators. | | However, plate readers will always be a part of national | security, and certain local law enforcement tactics. | mistrial9 wrote: | rapidly multiplying red-light cameras at every major city | intersection here in California -- see San Diego County | technology plan and others. Zero discussion of withdrawing | any of them, quite the opposite -- "no public debate | evident." Roughly one-in-ten residents of the USA live in | California. Secondly, a trend of physical restriction for | entry, exit and travel of whole portions of counties, via | declaration of disaster from Sacramento. | Symbiote wrote: | Plenty of toll roads recognize number plates in Europe, but | it may well be that it's easier to implement this system | when there are typically only two or three plate designs | per country, and they're generally all pretty much the same | -- black letters on a white or yellow background. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_vehicle_registration | _... | dboreham wrote: | US plates aren't expected to be readable (like they are in | Europe). | OJFord wrote: | It probably is largely familiarity, but I find them all a lot | harder to read than European numberplates, at any distance. The | font (family), colouring, spacing, etc. | | Sometimes when they're in a film or something and seem | significant (the shot hovers on it, or zooms in on it or | something) I've had to pause or go back to read it. | callumprentice wrote: | A few years ago, I set out to take a snapshot of a plate from | every state. My rules were that I had to take it personally, it | had to be a regular set of numbers and letters for that state - | no vanities - and I had to be able to clearly see the whole | thing. | | I'm down to 3 left to get - North Dakota, West Virginia and | Delaware. It's been more than a year since I caught the last one | (South Dakota) so I'm not sure I'll ever be done. | f154hfds wrote: | Go to the parking lot for Niagara Falls on the US side (Goat | Island I think it's called?). You should see all the plates | except for Alaska and Hawaii on an average day I think as well | as a decent number of Canadian provinces. | | We were there about a month ago looking at plates and ran into | another family looking for plates while we were there! | callumprentice wrote: | Thank you but that's a bit far from me in SoCal.. I do see a | lot of out of state plates in shopping malls here for some | reason so one day, I plan to explore a couple. | achrono wrote: | Been to the Canadian side literally dozens of times, holidays | and weekdays, but by far it's Ontario, New York or New Jersey | repping most of 'em. A few Texas here and there, but never | something like Alabama. Always wondered why that's so. | dboreham wrote: | Yellowstone is the place to do this. You'll even see some | European plates (on motorcycles). | callumprentice wrote: | Interesting - thank you. | | Near the top of my bucket list too. | dnissley wrote: | Interesting how many states offer out of state university plates. | E.g. New York and Tennessee both offer Indiana University plates | madcaptenor wrote: | And in that case, _only_ New York and Tennessee. | dnissley wrote: | Pennsylvania, Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina, | Maryland, and Deleware offer Purdue plates -- and that's just | looking up the universities I know well from growing up in | Indiana | Scoundreller wrote: | A relative had an immigrant colleague that was intrigued by | different US license plates. | | One day their manager had one that had a new colour scheme that | he never saw before. | | The intrigue overtook him and in a big group he had to ask how he | got this new beautiful plate. And how could he get one themself? | | Turns out the state required you to "wear" this license plate | after your third DUI or something. | | Oops. | | Edit: looks like two states have these "whiskey plates" or "party | plates": https://www.tmj4.com/news/project-drive-sober/ohio-gets- | toug... | rootusrootus wrote: | That's interesting. Ohio's party plates are similar to Oregon's | old yellow plates (which are still used for some niches, | including official vehicles). The red font is different, but | some of those party plates have very dark red numbers. | petepete wrote: | I wish we had something like this in the UK. | | More than 6 points on your licence and you have to drive a | yellow car with a 1l engine or smaller. | Scoundreller wrote: | Restricting vehicle size after a DUI would make a lot of | sense. Same for "novice" drivers licenses. | | Lawmakers with poor understandings of physics think speed is | the only factor in energy. | rootusrootus wrote: | > Lawmakers with poor understandings of physics think speed | is the only factor in energy. | | Given that v is squared in the equation, their | understanding of physics seems okay to me. | Scoundreller wrote: | Half the mass = half the energy... co-efficient gonna co- | efficient. | | (Tho I know some places do limit highway speeds for | novice licenses) | arethuza wrote: | Probably have to be something a lot smaller than 1l - how | about a Citroen Ami: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami_(electric_veh. | .. | | I'm sure Citroen would do them in yellow for a bulk purchase? | namdnay wrote: | that's so ... american. the vehicle version of public mugshots | or perpwalk | teddyh wrote: | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter> | spiderice wrote: | I'm just wondering why they're allowed to drive at all after | 3 DUIs. | calpaterson wrote: | I don't know about America but in the UK people don't get | their driving licence taken away that often, even if they | have hit 12 points (ie: racked up enough offences to | theoretically lose it). There is a lot of consideration as | to whether removing the driving licence will cause hardship | and defendants obviously usually argue that it will (with | some truth) so judges sometimes don't remove the licence. | | Anecdotally, I feel like it's actually gotten less common | over the years. When I was a teenager I would meet adults | who were riding the bus because they'd had their licence | taken away. Often it would be for a 6 month period before | they could re-apply (without retaking the test). That | became less frequent at some point. | arethuza wrote: | I think there has been a huge cultural change in how | people regard drink driving - I'm old enough (50s) when i | was almost regarded as a subject for humour. Now I don't | know anyone who doesn't take it very seriously indeed - | particularly here in Scotland where the blood-alcohol | limits are quite a bit lower for driving than in the rest | of the UK. | runarberg wrote: | I feel a similar cultural change in Iceland, however in | USA I feel no such change, quite the contrary. Moving to | the USA was honestly a bit of a culture shock in | observing how commonplace the practice is. What was more | shocking is observing a practice of strategic drinking, | that is try to drink just the right amount to keep your | blood alcohol level at the legal limit. I've never seen | anything like that before I moved here. | rootusrootus wrote: | That will obviously vary quite a lot across a country the | size of America. Local to me, DUI is extremely frowned | upon. | | But yes, it is somewhat common for people to have an idea | of what it takes to get to a BAC of 0.08%, because that | is the threshold at which you will be charged with DUI. | For many regular drinkers, they won't be impaired at | 0.08% and it takes less alcohol than you think to get | there. Especially with modern microbrew beers. Getting a | DUI will completely f*ck over your life, so if you like | to drink socially, you are very careful. | jdietrich wrote: | _> in the UK people don't get their driving licence taken | away that often_ | | In England and Wales, a drink-driving offence would | attract a minimum of a 12 month disqualification unless | there are very compelling mitigating factors. On a second | offence (or a serious first offence), you would usually | have to undergo a medical examination and re-take your | driving test to get your license back. | | https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates | -co... | | https://www.gov.uk/driving- | disqualifications/disqualificatio... | calpaterson wrote: | One in five continue to drive: | | https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10304829 | /Mo... | gambiting wrote: | ....illegally. That's a problem of nearly non-existing | enforcement in the UK, not the toughness of law. | cosmodisk wrote: | In Lithuania the rules are fairly simple: fines up to a | certain level of intoxication.Criminal record, car | seizure,massive fine and lost licence if it goes above | certain limit. Also, one needs to take a driving test at | the end( after 2 or 3 years) if they want to drive again | and the examiners are known to apply every rule in the | book so they'd have hard time to pass. | Ekaros wrote: | I would expect them to be in prison for 25 years or | something after 3rd one. You know like 3 strikes... | xmzx wrote: | [dead] | HeyLaughingBoy wrote: | Good lawyers, basically. Either that or it's a small town | and they know the right people. | | I know someone who was woken up by a State Trooper, fast | asleep in her vehicle on the side of the road, _with the | engine running_ so it was obvious that she fell asleep | while driving. | | It was by far not her first DUI. I _assume_ that she lost | her license after that, but I do know that she kept | driving. | hiatus wrote: | > I know someone who was woken up by a State Trooper, | fast asleep in her vehicle on the side of the road, with | the engine running so it was obvious that she fell asleep | while driving. | | It doesn't sound obvious to me. If it was cold out, you | would run the engine for heat for instance. | rootusrootus wrote: | It may not be obvious she was in fact driving, but it'll | get you a DUI charge every time. Hell, even if you're in | the back seat sleeping it off you're likely to get a | charge if you have the keys anywhere accessible (and | sometimes, even if you don't). | HeyLaughingBoy wrote: | This is correct. | | I also neglected to mention that the car wasn't neatly | pulled over onto the side of the road but had driven | itself into the ditch between the road and a field. | blamazon wrote: | In Mississippi, one of those two aforementioned states, | it's perfectly legal to drink and drive (with an open | container in your hand!) as long as you stay below 0.08 | BAC. | | (Nit: it's legal at a state level but municipalities and | counties are allowed to dictate more rules on drunk driving | - most don't, but YMMV) | cosmodisk wrote: | I suppose it still looks a little bit like this then: | https://youtu.be/2xcQIoh3FQQ | kevinventullo wrote: | So, did he end up getting the plate? | travisgriggs wrote: | I'm curious what others think of this? My own thoughts, is that | after one DUI you should just not get any plates at all. | Period. | | It seems almost darkly comical that there would be a second and | then a third time, and that the punishment would be an altered | plate color?? Why not just put local graffiti artists to work, | and give them a free pass to keep the offenders car in a | constant state of "DUI" in scarlet letters. | pragma_x wrote: | As someone who read "The Scarlet Letter" in highschool, the | lesson I learned is that the state really should avoid | encouraging and supporting a culture of vigilantism and | ostrization. I for one don't think that lasting punishment* | for life are appropriate where addiction is likely the root | cause. But if the goal is just that, the laws should be | changed to do so more deliberately, rather than offload the | dirty work to the public. | | Also, I can't decide if "whiskey plates" are useful in any | real way. As something that is socially stigmatizing, it's | really unclear what the social response (if anything) is | supposed to be. That said, I don't know of any PSA or public | decree what went along with the launch of such programs. Now | I'm just curious. | | Hilariously, in Virginia, there are "Gadsden flag" ("don't | tread on me") plates that can resemble whiskey plates from | other states. So, across state lines, you have people | inadvertently diluting this "DUI driver on board" message all | while expressing a confused mess of other sentiments. | | (* I should clarify this by saying that I'm all for one-time | penalties for doing the wrong thing, including removing | privileges. It's where we brush up against a person's rights, | forever, that I take issue with. To me, revoking a driver's | license for life is okay, but removing their sense of | personal safety and autonomy through crowdsourced abuse, is | not.) | ComputerGuru wrote: | > Also, I can't decide if "whiskey plates" are useful in | any real way | | Whiskey plates give police permission to pull over the | (driver of the) vehicle and perform a sobriety test at any | time, without (additional) cause. | causality0 wrote: | Yes, if I took out my gun and fired randomly at a crowd I'm | never getting my carry permit back regardless of whether I | actually kill anyone. Fuck drunk drivers. | cratermoon wrote: | > never getting my carry permit back | | 27 states don't require a permit. At all. Ponder that. | seanw444 wrote: | Most permitless carry states still issue permits. And | like the other commenter said, that doesn't absolve you | of responsibility for your actions. You're still probably | going to prison. | | I've experienced the same amount of violent crime via | firearm after permitless carry, as before it: zero. | paulddraper wrote: | Dependant on your criminal history. | hiatus wrote: | What point are you trying to make here? You think in | states that don't require permits, the state cannot bar | that person from owning firearms? Obviously the person | you are responding to is referring states that issue | carry permits. | [deleted] | causality0 wrote: | True but not relevant. I'm saying we apply a much more | lenient standard to people posing a threat to public | safety with a vehicle than we do to people posing a | threat to public safety via other means such as reckless | use of a firearm or a laser pointer. | runarberg wrote: | My opinion is that DUI should revoke your license. I know it | is common in Europe where first offenders loose their license | for a few months, and then it gets progressively longer. | | The USA has IMO a terrible system which punishes DUI drivers | through the justice system regardless of if they caused any | harm. This leaves people with pretty shitty lives and | prevents people from calling the police on DUI drivers. They | can still drive shortly after though. | Scoundreller wrote: | I think in Europe you're a lot less likely to get charged | with a DUI. | | Rare to see random checkpoints, and generally rare to have | non-automated "mobile" enforcement of traffic rules in | Europe (in my US, Canadian, French, German and Croatian | driving experience). | | Heck, in France most collisions don't even involve police | while they're generally a mandatory report in US/Canada. | | If you get a DUI in Europe, you were probably a bad driver | on top of being over the limit. | VK538FY wrote: | My anecdotal experience is the exact opposite! I'm from | some unpopular Canadian province and live in Switzerland. | Lots of random controls in CH. I watch a lot of French | television where they at least pretend to do the same in | France, sort of the Gendarmes de Clermont-Ferrand. | Anyway. I've also been a passenger in a car in Germany | and the driver was controlled randomly. Now, in my wasted | youth in a former capital of Canada, I wasn't once | controlled when I should have been. | Tarball10 wrote: | Revoking their license does not stop them from driving. | runarberg wrote: | It stops by far most people from driving. The ones who | are undeterred and keep on driving without a license are | then fair game for the criminal justice system. | | Even if this minority gets away with continue driving | without a license and wont get punished, you still save | many lives by taking the vast majority of drunk drivers | off the road. That alone is worth it. | cratermoon wrote: | This is a good argument for having a robust and useful | public transportation system, as well as designing cities | to support such a system. Won't happen in the US in my | lifetime, but one can cream. | bobbylarrybobby wrote: | No, but it opens up the path to actual jail time, which | would get them off the road for good. | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: | I'm concerned with the "in Ohio, first time OWI offenders are | required to stay in jail 3 days"... | | Like, post-conviction? Or are they punishing before conviction | here? It's sort of fucked, considering that there are several | medical conditions commonly mistaken for drunk driving. | ryandrake wrote: | > Turns out the state required you to "wear" this license plate | after your third DUI or something. | | This doesn't make much sense because the license plate is | attached to the car, not the driver. Couldn't the manager just | drive his wife's or friend's car or something? What purpose | does the plate serve? "Warning everyone! A serial drink driver | might be in this car, but might not be, and if he's in it he | might be driving, or might not!" Totally useless. As someone | else mentioned, wouldn't it make more sense to permanently | revoke someone's license after 3 DUIs? | some_random wrote: | People usually drive their own car, and taking away someone's | license can be life destroying in most parts of the country. | woodruffw wrote: | This sounds like a good reason to pursue policies that make | taking away a license _not_ life destroying, rather than | pursuing policies that allow people to destroy lives by | continuing to drink-drive. | oakesm9 wrote: | Wait, is it not possible to get banned from driving in the | USA? | | For comparison the drink driving penalties are here: | https://www.gov.uk/drink-driving-penalties | toast0 wrote: | Effectively, not really. You can get your license pulled, | for a limited (but long) time. But just because you're no | longer permitted to drive doesn't mean you won't. | | It's difficult to register your car when you don't have a | license, so then you usually stop registering your car | too. And it's hard to get car insurance if you don't have | an active license or a registered vehicle, so that's | another thing to skip. | | If you get pulled over, and have no license, no | registration, and no insurance, but that's all that's | really wrong, you'll most likely get a ticket, probably | have your license suspended for longer, and might have | your car taken away, but won't likely be put in jail. So, | time to buy another cheap car, private party. | Scoundreller wrote: | But you have to get caught first. USA is bigger on | pulling vehicles over for ??? reasons than most other | places. | | I'm figuring in UK if you get a DUI, it's because you | were driving allll over the place or got into a 3am | collision. | msm_ wrote: | I don't get your point. Are you defending people driving | drunk in the USA because they are more likely to be | caught? | | In my country it's also common to get caught after being | stopped for speeding or car malfunction (like missing | headlight), after a minor crash, by driving in a | suspicious way, or just during a random check (that | police is allowed to do). In total, around 450 drivers | out of 1000 are tested for drunk-driving every year. It's | one of the higher numbers in EU, so drunk drivers here | are also (hopefully) likely to be caught. | | And the US DUI limit is _insane_ - 0.08% BAC. In my | country it 's 0.02% BAC and if you get caught you lose a | driving license for at least 6 months (with progressively | more severe consequences for higher violations, up to a | prison sentence, lifetime driving ban and losing your car | permanently). | Scoundreller wrote: | Generally, the more likely you are to get away with an | offence, the steeper the penalty. | | I can't speak for all EU countries, but I get the feeling | that traffic enforcement is a lower priority by EU police | than US/Canada. | | Several hypothesized factors for this in EU: more | competency-based licensing, more regular technical | inspections of vehicles (so fewer missing headlights), | more automated enforcement (so fewer in-person controls), | less focus on revenue generation by police (again, fewer | in-person speed/mechanical controls), and most collisions | just being a matter of submitting paperwork to insurance | without police involvement. In Ontario Canada, police | interaction is mandatory if any injury, >$2k damage or | public property damage, so 99% of collisions, which is | far different than France at least. | | So unless you have mobile alcohol checkpoints, even if | drink-driving happens at the same rate as elsewhere, | you're less likely to be caught in EU. And those that are | caught probably did something more significant at the | same time to warrant police attention. | | But sounds like your country, testing 45% of drivers per | year, makes up for those several factors I brought up. | Doesn't seem to be the norm in my EU experience - I do | ~25% of my driving there. | | 20 year old EU data on this on p. 21 here: https://road- | safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021... | 8zah6q7 wrote: | It is practically impossible unless one is in prison or | something. In the future it could be enforced with | biometrics authentication interlocks. | rascul wrote: | > Wait, is it not possible to get banned from driving in | the USA? | | Yes, it is. I think the bar tends to be a little higher | though. Also there are often work exemptions. | ComputerGuru wrote: | Driving drunk can be life destroying in most parts of the | country. | coldpie wrote: | The theory is they'll just drive anyway without a license. | Plus in many/most parts of the US, a car is effectively | required to live, so removing one's ability to drive is a | seriously major punishment. The whiskey plate indicates to | other drivers that the car could be more dangerous than | expected, and yes, I think the shame is supposed to be a | component as well. It's harm reduction, not a perfect | solution. | | I don't know if the theory works in practice. | gambiting wrote: | >>so removing one's ability to drive is a seriously major | punishment. | | Being caught drunk driving 3(!!!) times is a seriously | major crime. I'm a strong advocate for a complete driving | ban after a single drunk driving episode, 3 is just crazy | to me. I get the argument that in US that basically makes | it impossible to get anywhere without a car but I don't | know - get a bicycle or something, literally anything is | preferable to letting these people on the road again. | haswell wrote: | Depending on location, a bicycle is not a viable | alternative. Driving is a condition of living if food is | 30 minutes of driving into town. | | I'm am not advocating for lax DUI laws, but a driving ban | is the equivalent of house arrest or forced relocation | for some people/locations unless they have people who can | help them with transportation. | | Moving to a city with public transit would provide the | most autonomy, but would also mean uprooting one's life, | leaving family behind, etc. | | The total impact is indeed very harsh, even if it is | necessary for the safety of others. | mptest wrote: | You're right! We should make them wear a star or something to | indicate their specialness! | | Joking aside I imagine taking licenses away are a big part of | it, but that doesn't stop them from driving, at least the | license plate warns the rest of us not to drive too close to | the guy. | civilitty wrote: | I was thinking a Scarlet Letter. Maybe "A" for Alcoholic? | vitaflo wrote: | "Whiskey" plates in MN all start with the letter W (this | why we call them whiskey plates). So there's your scarlet | letter. | gnopgnip wrote: | Typically part of the sentence is to require an ignition | interlock for multiple years. Driving a car without an | ignition interlock is a lifetime driving ban, plus up to two | additional years in prison. The details vary by state | | The plate is there to shame the driver primarily and dissuade | them from DUI, secondarily so the police pay more attention | to them. | ojosilva wrote: | The median is 1.8 cars per household in the US, so I'd say, | from intuition and experience, that in these states the | targeted vehicle will be +95% of the time driven by the DUI | offender. | | But it doesn't matter, because "whiskey plates" are just | plain wrong - they are a tongue-in-cheek, populist lawmaker's | kool-aid. As a deterrent whiskey plates work best for | conscious, god-fearing folk who rarely go over the limit. | Besides these types of public shaming schemes can also have | just the opposite effect, ie a university bro that looks cool | with that whiskey plate or by creating enduring self or | public confirmation that you are now that person the plate | says you are. Adequate punishment would be to combine fines | that are proportional to one's income, use tech like ignition | interlock devices and invest on the individual's | rehabilitation as a responsible driver, including | participating in social services and education programs, | among other ordinary measures. | | Furthermore, permanently revoking a drivers license is a | serious punishment in a country where transportation/commute | is primarily done by car. Also not all DUI's are the same and | there's a principle of proportionality that always applies | when sentencing offenders. So strike-3-and-you're-done would | be very harsh for the great majority of DUI/DWI cases in the | US. | WkndTriathlete wrote: | In Minnesota drivers recovering from DUI revocation are | required to use the "whiskey" plates. (Incidentally the | license plate database is incomplete because it does not | include the Minnesota "whiskey" plate.) | | While "whiskey" plates are on the vehicle police officers can | legally stop the driver of the vehicle for a impairment check | without cause (e.g. without any indications that the driver | is under the influence or any traffic violations.) The idea | is that the extra enforcement is incentive for the recovering | DUI driver to continue to drive safely and re-develop that | habit. | HeyLaughingBoy wrote: | > While "whiskey" plates are on the vehicle police officers | can legally stop the driver of the vehicle | | Not any more. They changed this part of the law a few years | ago. Probably around the same time that they (MN) began to | implement breathalyzer interlocks where you can't start or | drive the car if you're above a certain threshold. | | However, I think that if you're pulled over and you have an | active DUI but are not driving a car with whiskey plates, | then it's an immediate loss of license. | schoen wrote: | I hired someone on Craigslist for something (I don't remember | now exactly what it was for) and he turned out to have a | breathalyzer interlock on his car, presumably ordered by a | judge or something after multiple DUIs. If I remember | correctly, he had to periodically blow into the tube while | driving. I don't think I had realized that was a thing before | that. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-08-21 23:00 UTC)